“Israel Does NOT Want To End This War” Deadly Gaza Hostage Raid

Summary

In a heated debate, panelists discuss the complex realities of the Israel-Hamas conflict, acknowledging both the necessity of Israel's actions to rescue hostages and the devastating civilian casualties in Gaza. The conversation explores the moral quandaries, the asymmetry of the conflict, and the international community's role, including the US's unconditional support for Israel. The discussion also touches on the potential for a ceasefire and the challenges of achieving a lasting peace amid the ongoing violence and political divisions.

Takeaways

• 📢 The debate centers on the complex realities of the Israel-Hamas conflict, highlighting the need for a nuanced understanding of both sides' narratives.
• 🔍 There is a reported discrepancy in the death toll from the conflict, with the Hamas-run Health Ministry claiming 274 deaths versus the IDF's claim of fewer than 100, including terrorists.
• 🏠 The Israeli forces' raid on a refugee camp in Gaza is condemned, with the acknowledgment that children and civilians were among the casualties.
• 👥 The successful rescue of four Israeli hostages by the IDF is seen as a triumph, despite the broader context of violence and loss of life.
• 🌐 The discussion underscores the polarization and entrenched positions within the conflict, with little room for compromise or peace negotiations.
• 🇮🇱 The script mentions Israel's unconditional support from the United States, suggesting it gives Israel a 'blank check' to act without international accountability.
• 🔄 The debate participants express the moral quandary of weighing the rescue of hostages against the cost of civilian lives in military operations.
• 🤝 There is a call for a ceasefire and a multi-year reconstruction plan for Gaza, indicating international efforts to resolve the conflict.
• 🏛️ The script raises questions about the role of Hamas in future governance and the need for accountability for its actions, similar to that demanded of Israel.
• 💡 The discussion highlights the importance of viewing Palestinians and Israelis as equal stakeholders with rights to freedom and dignity.
• 🌍 The debate concludes with a call for an end to the occupation and siege, and for the international community, especially the United States, to reconsider its support for Israel.

Q & A

What was the main event that triggered the conflict between Israel and Hamas mentioned in the script?

The main event was the abduction of four hostages at a music festival on October 7th by Hamas, which led to Israel declaring war on Hamas.

How does the script describe the Israeli forces' raid on the refugee camp in Gaza?

The script describes the raid as a successful operation to free the abducted hostages, but also mentions a high death toll, including children and civilians, as reported by the Hamas-run Health Ministry.

What is the discrepancy between the death toll numbers reported by the Hamas-run Health Ministry and the IDF?

The Hamas-run Health Ministry reports 274 deaths, while the IDF claims to have killed fewer than 100 people, including Hamas terrorists.

What moral dilemma does the script highlight regarding the conflict?

The script highlights the moral dilemma of acknowledging the horror of the refugee camp raid and the killing of innocents, while also recognizing the importance of Israel's successful rescue of the hostages.

What is the script's stance on the value of life in the context of the conflict?

The script suggests that the value of life should not be differentiated based on nationality or affiliation, and that the loss of any innocent life is a tragedy, regardless of the side.

What is the script's view on the role of the United States in the conflict?

The script implies that the United States provides unconditional support to Israel, regardless of actions, which may contribute to the perpetuation of the conflict.

What is the argument presented by the script regarding the asymmetry of the conflict?

The script argues that the conflict is asymmetrical, with Israel having more power and resources, and that this power imbalance affects the dynamics and potential resolution of the conflict.

What is the script's perspective on the potential for peace between Israel and Palestine?

The script suggests that achieving peace is a daunting task, given the current state of the conflict and the entrenched positions of both sides, but it does not completely dismiss the possibility of a resolution.

How does the script address the issue of civilian casualties in the conflict?

The script emphasizes the tragedy of civilian casualties, particularly the deaths of women and children, and questions the morality of actions that lead to such outcomes.

What is the script's view on the role of Hamas in the conflict?

The script acknowledges Hamas's role in initiating the conflict through the abduction of hostages but also holds them responsible for maximizing civilian casualties in their responses to Israeli actions.

What is the script's opinion on the international community's response to the conflict?

The script calls for international pressure on both parties, particularly on Israel, to end the conflict and suggests that unconditional support for Israel, especially from the United States, should be reconsidered.

Outlines

00:00

😔 Polarized Views on the Israel-Hamas Conflict

The paragraph discusses the complexity and polarization surrounding the Israel-Hamas conflict, particularly following an Israeli military operation in Gaza. It acknowledges the tragic loss of life, including children, and the moral dilemma of balancing the rescue of Israeli hostages by Hamas with the civilian casualties caused by the IDF's response. The speaker emphasizes the need for a moral conscience regarding innocent suffering and criticizes the lack of accountability for repeated atrocities. The conversation includes a debate with journalist Emily Austin, Palestinian-American commentator Omar Baddar, and podcast host Dave Smith, highlighting differing views on the conflict's moral and strategic aspects.

05:00

😠 The Asymmetry of the Israel-Palestine Conflict

This paragraph delves into the asymmetrical nature of the conflict, with a focus on the perceived unconditional support for Israel by the United States, regardless of actions. It discusses the moral quandary of valuing Israeli lives over Palestinian lives and the challenges of achieving peace when one side feels it has a 'blank check' signed in the blood of the other. The conversation explores the idea of limits on military action to rescue hostages, the responsibility for civilian casualties, and the broader implications of the conflict on the perception of Western civilization's values.

10:03

😡 The Escalation and International Response

The paragraph addresses the escalation of the conflict and the international response, including the resignation of Benny Gantz from the Israeli War Cabinet due to a lack of clear endgame strategy. It highlights the split within the Israeli hierarchy and the push by right-wing members of the government cabinet to continue the military onslaught against Hamas. The discussion points to the futility of endless comparisons of atrocities and the need to address the root cause of the conflict, which is the ongoing occupation and siege of Palestinian territories by Israel.

15:03

😤 The Debate Over Occupation and Legitimacy

This paragraph presents a contentious debate over the concept of occupation, with one participant challenging the narrative that Israel's control over Palestinian territories is illegitimate. The argument questions the historical legitimacy of a Palestinian state and the responsibility for the current situation. The counter-argument emphasizes the reality of Israel's occupation since 1967, the asymmetry of power, and the human rights of Palestinians under occupation, drawing parallels to historical examples of settler colonialism.

20:04

🕊️ The Path Toward Ceasefire and Peace

The paragraph discusses the breaking news of a US-drafted UN Security Council resolution supporting President Biden's proposal for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. It outlines the potential three-phase plan, including a full and complete ceasefire, the release of hostages, the return of deceased hostages' remains, and a multi-year reconstruction plan for Gaza. The conversation reflects on the challenges of achieving a lasting peace, the role of international pressure, and the need for a fundamental change in the approach to the conflict.

25:05

🤔 Reflections on the Future of Gaza and Hamas

In the final paragraph, the discussion centers on the implications of the proposed ceasefire and the future role of Hamas in Gaza. It questions the feasibility of a permanent ceasefire under Netanyahu's condition of Hamas's complete defeat and the international community's responsibility in applying pressure for a resolution. The conversation also addresses the issue of funding for both sides, calling for an end to financial support that fuels the conflict, and emphasizes the need for Israel to negotiate in good faith and recognize Palestinians' rights for a peaceful resolution.

Keywords

💡Polarized commentary

The term 'polarized commentary' refers to opinions and analysis that are divided into opposing groups, often with little to no middle ground. In the context of the video, it is used to describe the extreme and opposing views on the Israel-Hamas conflict, where commentary tends to be one-sided, either supporting or condemning one party without acknowledging the complexity of the situation.

💡Refugee camp

A 'refugee camp' is a temporary residence set up for people who have been displaced from their homes, usually due to war or disaster. The script mentions an Israeli raid on a refugee camp in Gaza, highlighting the tragic reality of civilian casualties, including children, which is a central issue in the ongoing conflict.

💡Hostages

The term 'hostages' refers to individuals who are captured and held captive, often as leverage or for ransom. The script discusses the abduction of four Israelis at a music festival by Hamas, and their subsequent rescue by Israeli forces, which is a key event that sparked the conflict discussed in the video.

💡Casualties

Casualties are individuals who are killed, injured, or missing as a result of conflict or war. The video script provides differing accounts of the number of casualties from the Israeli forces and the Hamas-run Health Ministry, emphasizing the severity and impact of the conflict on both sides.

💡War crimes

War crimes are serious violations of the laws and customs of war. The script implies that there are concerns about potential war crimes committed during the conflict, particularly regarding the targeting and killing of civilians, which is a significant ethical and legal issue in the discussion of the conflict.

💡Moral conscience

A 'moral conscience' refers to an individual's sense of right and wrong, guiding their actions and decisions. The script challenges the participants and viewers to consider their own moral conscience regarding the suffering of innocent people in the conflict, questioning the lack of empathy and the justification of violence.

💡Asymmetrical conflict

An 'asymmetrical conflict' is a term used to describe a conflict where the opposing sides have significantly different military capabilities or strategies. The video script uses this term to highlight the power imbalance between Israel and Hamas, suggesting that the conflict cannot be fairly assessed without considering this disparity.

💡Occupation

In the context of the video, 'occupation' refers to the control and governance of a territory by a foreign military power. The script discusses the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories since 1967, which is a fundamental aspect of the ongoing conflict and a source of international controversy.

💡Settlements

Settlements are communities established in disputed territories, often as a means of extending control over the area. The script mentions Israeli settlements in the West Bank, which are a point of contention as they are seen as a violation of international law and an impediment to peace.

💡International law

International law consists of a set of rules and norms that govern relations between nations. The script refers to violations of international law by Israel in the context of the occupation and treatment of Palestinians, underscoring the broader implications and the need for a resolution that adheres to global standards.

💡Human rights

Human rights are the basic rights and freedoms to which all individuals are entitled, regardless of nationality, sex, ethnicity, or any other status. The video script emphasizes the denial of these rights to Palestinians under Israeli occupation, which is a central concern in the humanitarian aspect of the conflict.

Highlights

The complexity of the situation in Gaza is underscored by the fact that two truths can coexist: the innocence of children killed in a refugee camp and the relief of Israel freeing hostages.

The discrepancy in reported death tolls between the IDF and the Hamas-run Health Ministry highlights the challenge of verifying facts on the ground.

The debate over Israel's actions raises questions about the limits of military response and the moral conscience regarding innocent suffering.

The discussion suggests that the conflict has become deeply entrenched, with little willingness from either side to acknowledge wrongdoing or seek resolution.

The United States' unconditional support for Israel, despite international criticism, is a significant factor in the ongoing conflict.

The moral quandary of Israel's military operations is explored, questioning the limits of what is acceptable to rescue hostages.

Emily Austin emphasizes the joy of the hostages' rescue but also the tragic cost to innocent Palestinian life.

The Palestinian health authority's historical accuracy in reporting is considered in the context of the current crisis.

Omar Bad argues that all bloodshed in the conflict is ultimately Hamas's fault, highlighting the complexity of assigning blame.

The conversation touches on the historical context of the conflict, including past atrocities and the cycle of violence.

The role of the international community, particularly the United States, in influencing the conflict's trajectory is examined.

The debate over the definition of 'occupation' and its implications for the conflict is a key point of contention.

The participants discuss the potential for a ceasefire and the challenges of achieving a lasting peace.

The breaking news of the UN Security Council's resolution supporting a ceasefire proposal is a significant development in the conflict.

The discussion concludes with a call for an end to the conflict, emphasizing the need for recognizing the humanity and rights of Palestinians.

Transcripts

two things can be true at the same time

that is a fact that has been all but

abandoned in the fevered and polarized

commentary on the Israel Hamas War this

weekend Israeli forces raed a refugee

camp in Gaza and successfully freed four

hostages who've been abducted at a music

festival on October the 7th the Hamas

run Health Ministry says that 274 people

died in that raid including children and

civilians the IDF says it killed fewer

than a 100 in total including Hamas

terrorists but whatever the real figure

it's obviously horrific this was a

refugee camp children were killed they

are clearly innocent that doesn't make

it any less horrifying the four innocent

Israelis were s snatched by terrorists

at a music festival in the first place

and no less of a Triumph that Israel has

now brought them home these things can

all be true at the same time and the

exact same Lo logic applies to the war

itself Israel had no choice but to

declare war on Hamas for perpetrating

the worst massacre of Jewish people

since the Holocaust but it doesn't have

a blank check signed in Palestinian

blood to commit repeated atrocities

without accountability especially now

that members of netanyahu's own

government are calling out his failure

to explain the Israeli endgame to the

very many people on both sides have

attacked me for saying that my question

is simply this what exactly is wrong

with having a moral conscience about

innocent people suffering and more

importantly where is yours well joining

me out to debate this journalist and

broadcaster Emily Austin Palestinian

American commentator Omar bad and the

host of part of the problem podcast Dave

Smith well Dave let me start with you

actually

um a lot of people are part of the

problem it seems to me the longer this

war has gone on the more entrenched

people have got into their various

tribes and it's got increasingly toxic

there's no admission by any one in those

tribes of any wrongdoing on their side

uh and there's no attempt at any attempt

to come across the bridge and Forge any

kind of settlement resol ution or peace

it seems to me like we are entering a

really depressing phase of all this war

what is your

view well I I can't disagree with any of

that it's certainly depressing I mean

we're listen this has been going on

since October we're nine months into

this thing now so it's been depressing

for a while and I agree with everything

you said in your opening that of course

perpetrating violence against innocent

civilians is wrong no matter who does it

and that ought to be the basis for

Western Civilization I mean especially

for people who like to kind of brag

about western civilization and and the

aspects where it's Superior to others um

the the thing here though right is that

as you say Israel can't doesn't just

have a blank check signed in Palestinian

blood but objectively the reality seems

to be that they do and that they have

unconditional support from the United

States of America the global uh

superpower no matter what even if our

own president asks them not to do

something and they do it they still

continue to receive this unconditional

support and of of course but as I've

said to you before Pierce and I think

this has kind of been the fundamental

truth throughout this entire conflict is

that the only way you can really support

Israel and what they're doing is if on

some f fundamental level you value

Israeli life more than you value

Palestinian life okay and if that's your

starting point fine but if that's not

your starting point then you don't look

at a mission that that got four Israelis

back and killed a bunch of children as a

success well you see that's where I have

a real again I've used this phrase many

times in this war a moral quandra I'll

tell you why should there be any limit

given that Hamas kidnapped these people

kidnapped young women they kidnapped

babies they kidnapped Holocaust

Survivors uh as well as murdering and

wounding thousands and thousands of

people should there be any limit to what

Israel should be able to do militarily

to rescue those hostages from all the

footage coming out they they planned

this cuz they had information about

where they were being held they then

sent special forces in to get them came

under heavy heavy fire um and as a

result of that there were air cover sent

in as well uh and I'm just curious what

should be the limit on Israel to go and

rescue these innocent kidnapped

hostages well I mean look the the limit

should be you know in general what the

the limit over the this conflict should

be is that your number if your number

one priority is to get back the hostages

I think this whole campaign would have

been conducted in a very different way

than it has been over the last nine

months but you know look what's wrong

the the essence of what makes it immoral

to take these hostages is that these are

innocent people who did not do anything

to Forfeit their natural god-given

rights but that also has to apply to

innocent Palestinians who were not

involved in October 7th or have no blood

on their hands we're not

members of uh Hamas militant groups and

these are and and we're describing

millions of people who fall into that

category and so you know the i in an

Ideal World the limit would be that you

could only go after those people who

were directly responsible now in war

that's rarely the case that there are no

uh uh innocent casualties however I

think a reasonable approach would be to

expect Israel to do what they always

claim that they're doing which is just a

blatant lie which is that we're doing

everything we can to avoid civilian

casualties but very clearly that's not

been how they've been conducting this

war all right Emily let me bring you in

here I mean look I was joyous when I saw

that these hostages had been rescued

particularly Noah uh aamani whose story

touched the world seeing this beautiful

young woman being taken off on a

motorbike absolutely desperate with fear

and we all feared the worst for her and

then the added uh human dimension of her

mother having incurable brain cancer

and very sadly it appears she's she's

too far gone with the cancer now to even

really understand what has happened with

her daughter coming home and wanted to

live until she did get home so the whole

thing was was tragic but has the joy of

her obviously being rescued um but when

you look at these numbers I me think

about the Palestinian health authority

numbers is it historically going back

before October the 7th for

decades um or several decades anyway

when these figures relased by the

Palestinian health authority which is

Hamas run have been verified

independently they've come back as

reasonably accurate I mean not

completely but reasonably accurate

numbers we don't know whether these are

reasonably accurate the ones they're

putting out now but Israel admits to

killing at least a 100 people we don't

know how many of those are Hamas and

they say 274 either way it's clear from

the scenes of the hospital that there

have been a lot of women and children

innocent people clearly caught up in

and so the same the same question for

you really yes I'm joyous at the return

of hostages yes I think Israel

absolutely has a right to go and get

them but at what cost to innocent

Palestinian

life what's interesting about these

debates that end up becoming pretty

chaotic is that everyone expects usually

the zionists and I I can't speak for

anyone but myself to be Unapologetic

about Palestinian casualties now that's

not me that will never be me because I'm

not a monster now of course Israel needs

to do its best job to protect innocent

civilians now when I say innocent

civilians I don't mean the journalists

or oped writers that are keeping

hostages in their home if you're

complicit in keeping hostages or you're

complicit in terrorism to me you're not

a civilian you're a terrorist as well I

agree now with that being said at the

same time my point is never in my life I

will never say the Palestinians deserve

it this is what they get because of

Hamas my point is always the same all of

the blood spilled on both sides of this

conflict are hamas's fault it's only

Hamas to blame because if it wasn't for

October 7th the idea for not be in Gaza

if it wasn't for the hostages being in

civilians Apartments guess what Pierce

there'd be no civilian casualties and I

also want to point out one thing just a

food for thought is it only IDF bullets

that penetrate excuse me does Hamas not

fire back do you think Hamas is not

responsible for casualties as well so my

point is never that it's Justified it's

always the same every ounce of blood

spilled needs to be blamed on Hamas and

the world needs to put international

pressure on Hamas because if the

hostages were released time and time

again this war could have ended instead

where do they put them in a refugee camp

to maximize the casualties that

everyone's going to face okay before

okay before I go to before I go to Omar

I do think it's very disingenuous when I

hear the argument if Hamas just released

the hostages this war would be over

Israel's stated mission is not just to

get the hostages back is to eliminate

Hamas so correct getting the hostages

back is one part of it but it's not it

is just not true to say if they handed

them more back tomorrow Netanyahu would

not want the remaining Hamas terrorist

to still be there he would continue as

he'd make very clear to execute this war

until he got rid of all of Hass so I

that unreasonable did did did America

not want Al-Qaeda dead after 911 yeah no

I'm just saying I'm just saying it's not

right no that's true but I'm just saying

it's it's not accurate when I hear

pro-israeli uh guests say well if they

just handed about the H it be over that

that it's not as simple as that it

wouldn't be over I'm saying it would

minimize civilian casualties of course

you want to eradicate Hamas because if

you don't October 7th will be December

7th will be February 7th etc etc my

issue is that

they they make sure Hamas makes sure to

maximize the civilian casualties and for

some reason the blame goes solely on the

IDF okay let me bring in Omar you'd be

waiting patiently Omar you know it seems

to me there's already now a split in the

Israeli War cabinet uh Benny gance has

resigned you know people view him as

more moderate than Netanyahu and benav

and smri and so on that there are other

you know very right-wing members of that

uh cabinet who not the war cabinet but

the more General government cabinet who

are pushing Netanyahu to uh a very bad

place they feel and I I sort of share

that view I don't know where this ends

and gance has made it clear he's

resigned because he doesn't see any end

game he doesn't understand what life is

going to be like at the end of this war

and that should worry all of us what is

your view of where we are with with this

split now in in the Israeli hierarchy

yeah that is precisely where we are

peers I mean gance split off because he

understands that there is significant

discontent with Netanyahu domestically

there's significant International

discontent with him including from the

United States and he's hoping to reap a

reward if that pressure eventually ramps

up to a point that actually pushes

Netanyahu out of power for him to be

there uh to basically replace him and

become the future leader but I just want

to emphasize the fact that we are

precisely here because Israel does not

want to end this war they've set

unrealistic goals they said that they're

going to continue this Onslaught until

Hamas is defeated militarily until they

freed all the hostages militarily and in

the meantime this Onslaught is killing

tens of thousands of innocent

Palestinians day in and day out and

because Israel can't achieve its goals

the idea that we just have to sit back

and and watch this horror continue

endlessly is completely ridiculous I

mean just I was listening to Emily speak

and all you have to do is just reverse

the scenario for just a moment peers

right now as you and I are speaking

thousands of Palestinians have been

kidnapped out of the Gaza strip and are

placed in Israeli detention centers

where they are undergoing daily torture

there's a piece in the New York Times

exploring the absolutely horrific

torture they're undergoing including

acts of sexual abuse that they are

enduring and right now and by the way

several dozen of them have died in

Israeli custody almost certainly due to

the abuse that they are enduring and if

you were to ask a question right now is

Hamas justified in invading Israel to

rescue four Palestinian detainees out of

the thousands that are held by Israel

and what kind of civilian cost would

that be worth imagine that scenario and

imagine that several hundred Israelis

were killed in the process how many

people would celebrate the release of

those

Palestinian it's a valid it's a valid

point but I would also ask you another

question which if we do flip all this

round and it had been the IDF who had

gone over the border on October the 7th

murdered in the most horrific barbaric

manner 1,200 Palestinians majority of

whom were completely innocent people

kidnapped over 200 and brought them back

into Israel and wounded nearly 7,000

more many of them

catastrophically are you really saying

that anyone on the Gaza Strip would have

wanted any limitation put on Hamas for

exacting

Revenge you are making an absolutely

incredible Point Piers because you don't

have to imagine that scenario back in

2014 when Israel initiated a military

operation operation against Gaza they

killed 2200 Palestinians including more

than 550 Palestinian children and that

does create a sentiment within Gaza of

people who want Vengeance and that's why

you see people some people react to

October 7th as saying what do you expect

after everything that Gaza has endured

at the hands of Israel and right now

we're putting our finger precisely on

the point is that if we want to compare

atrocities back and forth frankly I

don't think Israel fares very well

because there's no question that Hamas

has committed atrocities against

Israelis but Israel atrocities against

Palestinians have been far greater far

more frequent and extend over a much

longer per time and if we're serious

just just last Point Piers that is

really important if we're serious about

wanting to end these atrocities you have

to deal with the underlying problem and

the underlying problem is that Israel's

recipe for Palestinians says they are

not allowed to ever be free they must

live under siege and occupation forever

and if they don't like it they can

either leave or be subject to Israel's

brutal military operations and until

Israel start seeing Palestinians as

equal human beings who can live in

Freedom on their own land I don't think

this thing is going to end we're going

to beu in a moment just to get a quick

reaction to that from

Emily I actually agree with Omar to a

certain extent that if you go back and

forth and compare atrocities it'll be an

endless conversation because there's

plenty to go back and forth with I'd

also like to add talking about if you

flip the narrative let's say which thank

God Israel has the Iron Dome let's say

they hadn't how many civilian casualties

on a daily basis would Israel be facing

I also want to point out some serious

hypocrisy everyone's talking about why

can't we equivocate Palestinian lives to

Israeli lives and absolutely we should

why are Palestinian lives any less or

more valuable than an Israeli then how

come in every ceasefire exchange for

some reason they equivocate one Hostage

to 6,000 Palestinians who are arrested

for either alleged terrorism or valid

terrorism if you actually want equality

and fairness then let's address the fact

Palestinians live better lives often

it's not a ridiculous point thereal of

that changes how

many sorry there's I'm sorry that's a

complete Mis Mis that's that's a Mis

complete Mis misreading of the situation

the reason why there is a discrepancy in

the hostage exchanges is because there

is a huge disparity in power Israel can

just go into the Palestinian areas and

kidnap thousands upon thousands of

Palestinians who are held without charge

or trial if Hamas were capable of doing

something like that you probably would

see is to Target

civilians I just we're get we're getting

into the kind of tip Fort argument which

is one you both highlighted actually in

different ways and I don't want to

really this way let me ask Dave this

it's just breaking news now the United

Nations security Council on Monday has

adopted a US drafted resolution backing

a proposal outlined by President Joe

Biden for a ceasefire between Israel and

Palestinian militants Hamas in the Gaza

Strip I call them terrorists uh Russia

abstain from the vote the remaining 14

council members voted in favor and the

US finalized this text on Sunday after

six days of negotiations among the

council so a sort of significant move

there to support President Biden's way

to try and bring about a ceasefire but

it does again it does beg the question

what happens next I mean I don't think

there can be any future here that

involves Hamas having any power

whatsoever nor do I think that can any

future with Netanyahu in charge of

Israel and I'm not entirely sure given

the scale of what's been going on over

the last seven months dwarfing anything

really we've seen in many decades I I

don't know quite how we get to peace how

do we rebuild trust and get to some sort

of peace I mean you must have thought

about this a lot dve but we all have

what do you think well I mean look it

certainly seems like a daunting task and

it seems right now that we're about as

far from peace as we could possibly be I

think I may have said this uh to you

when when we were doing your show when

you were in New York uh couple months

back um but you know like uh last year I

went and did comedy shows in London and

then I flew over to Ireland and did

shows right there and you know you guys

are right next door to each other and

there was a time when it seemed like you

guys could never achieve peace you know

the truth is that as many pro- Israelis

like to brag about at uh Camp David in

the late 70s Israel did make a land uh

deal with Egypt a land for peace deal

and that peace stuck they went to war

four times in a little over 20 years and

they haven't been to war ever since and

so as bad as things do seem right now I

I do believe that there's a path where

there could be a deal made and there

could be a lasting pieace but the bottom

line is that what you have to understand

and I appreciate Emily's saying that

like there's been a lot of attrocities

on both sides I don't think anybody

would deny that and I don't think anyone

would deny that Hamas has some

responsibility for atrocities that

they've committed but the point is the

underlying fact that you can't get away

from here is that this is an

asymmetrical conflict Israel has

occupied Palestine since

1967 we're not talking about a few

months after a war or even a few years

after a war we're talking about longer

than the Soviet Union occupied Eastern

Europe and the idea that people say well

if Hamas just surrendered today the war

would be over like let's even say that's

true which I'm not convinced it is but

let's say that's true and then what live

in subjugation forever I mean look the

height of the Netanyahu

Doctrine was two weeks before October

7th when he went to the United Nations

with a map of Greater Israel including

Gaza and the West Bank all being Israel

that was the peak of the Netanyahu

Doctrine and what he was telling the

world and the Palestinians was it's over

you lost we won we made our deals with

the outside Arab world no one's coming

to save you you live in subjugation

forever and the culmination of of that

was October 7th and that's not to remove

responsibility from Hamas you canot

remove responsibility from Israel I'll

let Emily respond to

that I want to ask David um you you just

said Israel is occupied obviously hear

that narrative every day and I often

hear chance specifically here in

Manhattan we don't want two states we

want all of 48 when the UN came up with

the partition plan and nobody was happy

with that and they gave land not only to

Israel but Jordan too I just can't help

I can't help but to think why does

nobody criticize the occupation of

jordanians taking the land from the

Palestinians how come it's only anger

once it's the only Jewish state in the

entire world in the entire globe that

Suddenly It's occupation and also can

somebody enlighten me how we occupied

the land that never had a prime minister

never had a government never had a

currency never had one person with

historical ties to the land called

Palestine I just can't wrap my head

around this occupation narrative

let me see let me see if I can help so

the reason why people aren't currently

occupied about currently outraged about

Egypt occupying Gaza or Jordan occupying

the West Bank or something like that is

because it's been over since 1967 so

like yeah if you want to go back

historically there were bad things that

were done by lots of groups of people

however since then it's been the

Israelis doing the occupation that's not

a narrative that's just a description of

reality and as far as your point about

like um you know that there was never

currency or there was never an official

state of Palestine I as I've said before

I just find this to be the most

unamerican unenlightenment way of

looking at things I mean all you have to

do is read the just compar no it's not

no it is completely irrelevant and

here's why it's irrelevant read the

Declaration of Independence that's all

you need to do and it will completely

dispel you of that the Declaration of

Independence starts off right Middle

East let me say this let me no okay fine

it's not but these values send America

it's the idea of natural rights man is

Born Free because these are god-given

rights and governments are just

something we Institute to protect our

rights and if the government isn't doing

a good job of that then the people have

the right and maybe even the duty to

overthrow that government no offense

Pierce you guys you've you've had your

wins too but this one was ours um and so

I'm just saying no listen it doesn't

matter whether they were dominated by

the Ottomans or the British Empire or

Jordan or Egypt before then these are

human beings who deserve natural rights

and they have absolutely no rights under

Israeli Rule and haven't since 1967 due

to the Israelis what happened before

Palestinians actually have full rights

in but okay well I I tell you what em

Palestinians in pales hang on hang on

here's what I say about that it was very

clear very soon after October the 7th

when Israel was able to control food uh

energy water and things like that and

turn that typ of Supply on and off that

actually Palestinians do not have the

same free rights as Israelis otherwise

Israel wouldn't have had the ability to

do that now how much of the percentage

of that the water is Israel would put up

an argument about why why they do that

but you can't dispute that that was what

they were able to do Omar I want to

there's some more details coming out

about this well Omar just want to bring

you you up to speed real the details

coming out of this announcement um

they're talking about a full and

complete ceasefire the release of

hostages held by Hamas the return

deceased hostages remains and the

exchange of Palestinian Prisoners the

plan includes three phases that would

end with a multi-year reconstruction

plan for Gaza which has been largely

destroyed due to the fighting the second

phase includes a permanent end to

hostilities as well as full withdrawal

of Israeli forces from Gaza this is

according to a text of the US draft

resolution I mean first of all do you do

you welcome the broad brust Strokes of

that

statement certainly do appears I want to

address this directly but I just have to

go back to just one thing that Emily had

said uh because I think it's really

really important not to gloss over it

when we talk about Israel's occupation

of the Palestinian territories there's

when you look at settler colonialism in

the United States and the fact that

Native Americans were were pushed off of

their land nobody cares that Native

Americans did not have an officially

recognized government or what currency

they had or this or that these are

people who are living on their land who

are being pushed out by an occupying

force and that's all that matters and

what's unique about the Israeli

occupation of the the Palestinian

territories particularly in the West

Bank today is the fact that it's settler

Colonial expansion Palestinians are

being systematically pushed out of their

land and out of their homes so Israel

can build more and more settlements to

take over Palestinian areas and 80% of

water in the West Bank is taken to be

used by Israel and by the settlers this

is Palestinian water every Israeli

policy every inch of the West Bank that

Israel takes over by force every drop of

water that Israel takes is a violation

of international law these are war

crimes that Israel has committ so to

pretend to conflate all of that with

whatever historical examples there have

been of other occupations and not you're

missing the point that Israel is

actively replacing Palestinians with is

effort to Let's also get to the point of

this breaking news I also want to

address that America did not give the

land back I want Tove

listen but I want to talk about the

listen You' all had a good chance to

talk I want to talk about specifically

this proposal and whether you think this

is the kind of framework we need now to

get to peace and whether you believe

that anyone Affiliated to Hamas can have

any role in any kind of government in

Gaza going

forward sure starting with the with the

ceasefire I think it's quite obvious and

inevitable that a ceasefire is going to

be the only way out of the mess that

we're currently in unless people are

happy to just sit back and watch a

genocide unfold for year after year and

the only problem right now with the

ceasefire is whether there is a question

about whether we're going to move from a

temporary one to a permanent one and

what that negotiation in between uh

entails and the problem is that prime

minister Netanyahu has made it

absolutely clear that there will not be

a permanent ceasefire until Hamas is

completely defeated so he's insisting

effectively that there not there is not

going to be a ceasefire because he can't

defeat Hamas militarily and so the

slaughter is going to continue

indefinitely so to the extent that the

International Community and the United

States can apply meaningful pressure on

Israel and Netanyahu in particular to

say knock off this delusional fantasy

that you're going to have an epic Quinn

beyond the fact that you've completely

destroyed the Gaza Strip and killed

40,000 people enough is enough it's time

to put an end to this Onslaught and just

have an exchange of prisoners hostages

and move on with life as for the

question about Hamas whether Hamas can

have a role in the future or whether

Netanyahu can I don't think that's a

particularly important question I think

Israelis can sort out who leads them

people in Gaza can figure that out

what's important for us as a third party

sitting on the outside be it the United

States or the rest of the International

Community is to say that support for mil

for foreign military occupation should

not continue it is not our role to

decide who rules Palestinians or who

rules Israelis or who's in the

government and who's not it is our role

to say that as long as Israel continues

occupying Palestinian land besieging

Palestinians denying them their most

basic and fundamental rights Israel

should not receive another Penny of us

from the United States in military

funding and not another veto and all

this unconditional diplomatic support

that the US provides for Israel to do

whatever it wants violate international

law right without any consequence

conversely what about all the money that

Hamas has been receiving billions of

dollars a lot of it via is a lot of it

via Israel presumably by the same yard

stick you would like to see Zero funding

going into Hamas unquestionably

unquestionably human rights

organizations have been absolutely clear

about the fact that nobody should be

sending weapons either to Hamas or to

Israel and I agree with that entirely

fortunately I live in a country that

does not supply Hamas so it's very easy

for me to say stop us funding for Hamas

because it doesn't exist in the first

place what does exist is US funding for

the Israeli government and the monstrous

atrocities that they are committing day

in and day out and that's what we need

to have change and once that changes

once Israel no longer enjoys this

impunity that the US gives them they

will find themselves in a position where

they have to negotiate in good faith and

to recognize that Palestinians are an

equal human being who have to get their

fundamental rights that they are

entitled to every inch of Independence

and dignity and and basic human rights

that Israelis enjoy and until Israel

treats Palestinians differently we're

not going to have an end to this

conflict and that's what needs to change

uh thank you all very much that was a

great debate I really appreciate it

thank you