How Much Money Do You REALLY Need?
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful discussion, a personal finance expert reflects on her journey from a business journalist to a financial advisor, emphasizing the evolution of personal finance in India. She highlights the importance of financial independence, dispelling myths about its meaning and stressing the significance of structured investing for long-term goals. The conversation delves into the impact of SEBI reforms, the FIRE movement, and the importance of women taking an active role in financial decisions. The expert shares practical advice on saving, investing, and the psychological aspects of money management, advocating for financial literacy and proactive involvement in one's financial life.
Takeaways
- 📊 The speaker emphasizes the power of compounding interest, demonstrated through the example of the Public Provident Fund (PPF) and its long-term impact.
- 💼 Financial independence is not about stopping work; it's about having the freedom to choose when and how to work, and it's closely tied to personal satisfaction.
- 👤 The speaker's journey in personal finance began with a career in business journalism and a transition into personal finance in 1997, highlighting the evolution of the field.
- 📈 The speaker discusses the significant reforms in the Indian financial sector, particularly the changes in mutual funds led by SEBI, which have made investing more accessible and transparent.
- 🔢 The importance of starting to save and invest early is stressed, with the speaker suggesting that even small additional contributions to retirement funds can be beneficial.
- 🚀 The FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement is mentioned, with the speaker providing methods to calculate retirement corpus and emphasizing the importance of starting early.
- 🏦 The speaker critiques the National Pension System (NPS) for its requirement to buy an annuity with a portion of retirement funds, suggesting it may not be the best option for all investors.
- 👩👩👧👦 The speaker shares personal insights on managing family finances, advocating for joint participation and transparency in financial decisions.
- 👩 The role of women in managing finances is discussed, with the speaker noting a slow but important shift towards greater female participation and control over financial decisions.
- 💡 The importance of financial education from a young age is highlighted, with the speaker sharing personal anecdotes about teaching children the value of money and the impact of choices.
- 📝 The speaker stresses the importance of documenting one's financial life for the benefit of family members, in case of unforeseen circumstances, and mentions an upcoming book to assist with this.
Q & A
What was the first product Monica Halen analyzed using her Excel sheet and how did it impact the perception of financial independence?
-The first product Monica Halen analyzed was the Public Provident Fund (PPF). She calculated the long-term growth of a monthly investment in a compounding interest product, which demonstrated that even a modest investment in PPF could lead to significant wealth over time, thus impacting the perception of financial independence.
How did the reforms in the Indian financial sector influence personal finance?
-The reforms in the Indian financial sector, particularly the work done by SEBI, led to a significant transformation in personal finance. For instance, the elimination of front-end commissions in mutual funds made investing more accessible and efficient, contributing to a more structured and goal-based approach to financial empowerment.
What is the FIRE movement and when is the right time to start working towards financial independence?
-The FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement is about achieving financial independence to retire early. The right time to start working towards financial independence is as early as possible, ideally when one starts working in the organized sector, as even small contributions to retirement funds like the Provident Fund can compound significantly over time.
What are the milestones for financial preparedness for retirement according to Monica Halen?
-According to Monica Halen, the milestones for financial preparedness for retirement are having three times your annual income by age 40, six times by age 50, and eight times by age 60. These milestones help assess whether one is well-prepared for retirement.
What is Monica Halen's view on the role of traditional investment instruments like NPS, PPF, and EPF in a long-term investment portfolio?
-Monica Halen believes that PPF and EPF form the core of a long-term investment portfolio. NPS is also a great product, especially for those without EPF, but she has concerns about the mandatory purchase of an annuity with 40% of the retirement corpus from insurance companies.
How does Monica Halen manage the finances in her family?
-Monica Halen manages the finances in her family, and her husband has now become a participant, so they manage it together. Their entire asset pile is in mutual funds with a 70% equity and 30% debt allocation, which she does not recommend for everyone but suits their financial expertise.
What is Monica Halen's perspective on female participation in managing finances?
-Monica Halen observes that female participation in managing finances is changing but at a slow pace. She encourages women to participate more actively in financial decisions, ensure they have assets in their name, and understand the financial implications of their choices.
How does Monica Halen suggest instilling financial awareness in children?
-Monica Halen suggests instilling financial awareness in children by setting an example with responsible spending and investing habits. She also recommends teaching them about the impact of choices and involving them in decisions that have financial consequences.
What advice does Monica Halen give to women regarding financial independence and asset ownership?
-Monica Halen advises women to be aware of the assets they have, ensure they have assets in their name, and understand the paperwork. She emphasizes the importance of financial independence and not relying solely on the male partner for financial decisions.
How does Monica Halen approach documenting her financial life and why is it important?
-Monica Halen documents her financial life in a spiral diary, noting down important details like bank account information and financial relationships. This documentation is crucial as it serves as a roadmap for her family in case something happens to her, ensuring that they are not left in the dark about financial matters.
What is Monica Halen's view on the relationship between money and personal satisfaction?
-Monica Halen believes that while money can smoothen many aspects of life, it is not the only source of satisfaction. She emphasizes that the most satisfying aspects of life come from finding meaning and purpose. Financial stability is important, but it should not overshadow the pursuit of meaningful activities and experiences.
Outlines
📊 Financial Independence Journey and Personal Finance Evolution
The speaker discusses their initial foray into personal finance, highlighting the transformative impact of analyzing the Public Provident Fund (PPF) using Excel. They reflect on the evolution of personal finance in India, from traditional investment avenues to the current focus on financial independence and early retirement (FIRE). The speaker emphasizes the importance of structured goal-based investing and the influence of SEBI reforms on mutual funds, which have made investing more accessible and efficient. They also touch upon the significance of starting financial planning early in one's career and debunk the myth that it's ever too late to start.
💼 Navigating Expenses and Savings in Midlife for Retirement Readiness
This paragraph delves into the challenges of saving for retirement during one's mid-30s to 50s, a period marked by high expenses and limited elbow room for large savings. The speaker suggests that even saving an additional 5% on top of the mandatory Provident Fund contributions can be beneficial. They also discuss the importance of maximizing savings during one's highest earning decade, typically the 50s, and the need to manage the risk of being replaced by younger, less costly employees. The speaker provides a method for calculating the retirement corpus required to maintain one's lifestyle, emphasizing the uncertainty of factors like inflation and life expectancy.
🏦 Traditional Investment Instruments and Their Role in Long-term Portfolios
The speaker evaluates traditional investment instruments like NPS, PPF, and EPF, considering their suitability for long-term financial planning. They express concerns about the NPS's requirement to buy an annuity with 40% of the retirement corpus, questioning the fairness of insurance companies in India. The speaker advocates for a core investment portfolio consisting of these instruments, especially for those who can invest beyond the minimum required amount, while also discussing the importance of having a diversified financial strategy.
👩💼 Women's Participation in Finance and the Importance of Financial Literacy
This section addresses the slow and insufficient progress in women's participation in financial decision-making. The speaker identifies cultural and societal factors that contribute to women's exclusion from money management, urging women to take an active role in understanding and controlling their finances. They stress the importance of financial literacy as a form of empowerment and caution against the risks women face, such as being left without assets in the event of a divorce due to India's lack of community property laws.
👶 Cultivating Financial Awareness from a Young Age and Documenting Financial Life
The speaker emphasizes the importance of instilling financial awareness in children, as it is a life skill that can shape their future financial behaviors. They share a personal story about teaching their daughter the value of choices and consequences through a simple book-buying scenario. The speaker also discusses the need to document one's financial life meticulously, sharing their practice of maintaining a record of all financial details, which serves as a guide for family members in the event of unforeseen circumstances.
🤔 Reflections on Personal Financial Decisions and Embracing Risk Management
In the final paragraph, the speaker reflects on their personal financial journey, including overcoming the fear of risk and learning to manage finances effectively. They share insights on the psychological aspects of money management, the importance of understanding one's motivations for spending, and the significance of earning and spending money in a manner that aligns with one's values. The speaker encourages viewers to share their financial stories, fostering a community of financial learning and growth.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Financial Independence
💡Public Provident Fund (PPF)
💡Compound Interest
💡Personal Finance
💡Financial Literacy
💡SEBI (Securities and Exchange Board of India)
💡Mutual Funds
💡Financial Planning
💡Early Retirement
💡Risk Management
💡Asset Allocation
Highlights
The first product analyzed in Excel was the Public Provident Fund, demonstrating the power of compound interest.
Financial independence does not equate to ceasing work; it's about having control over one's finances.
Monica Halan, a personal finance guru in India, discusses her journey and insights on personal finance.
Personal finance has evolved from traditional methods to a more structured, goal-based approach.
SEBI's reforms in 2009 transformed the mutual fund industry by eliminating front-end commissions.
The concept of FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) is popular, emphasizing early retirement through smart financial planning.
Starting financial planning early in one's career is crucial, even if it's just an additional 5% savings on top of mandatory contributions.
The 50s are typically the highest earning decade, making it essential to save effectively during this period.
A method to estimate retirement corpus involves multiplying current annual spending by 26, adjusted for inflation.
Milestones for financial readiness include having multiples of annual income saved by certain ages (e.g., 3 times at age 40).
Traditional investment instruments like PPF, EPF, and NPS form the core of long-term investment portfolios.
NPS is beneficial but has drawbacks, such as mandatory annuity purchase with a portion of retirement funds.
The importance of having assets in one's name, especially for women, to ensure financial security in case of divorce.
Women's participation in financial decision-making is slowly increasing, but there's still a long way to go.
The importance of teaching children about money management and the impact of choices from an early age.
Documenting one's financial life is crucial for preparedness and to assist family members in case of unforeseen events.
Understanding the emotional reasons behind spending habits and the importance of mindful consumption.
Risk management in finance is as much about emotional control as it is about rational decision-making.
The joint participation in financial management within a family, moving away from a single decision-maker model.
Transcripts
the first product I put through my Excel
sheet was public Provident fund and I
remember the impact it had like you know
they were saying you can become a Cory
with ppf just putting this much being
financially independent does not mean
that you stop working we talking about
financial Independence and the major
question which someone talks about is
what's the number so at age 40 you
should have three times of your annual
income who manages the money in your
family and the answer is very simple I
do so I used to be a Financial coward
money is not an ego trip your
masculinity is is not directly
proportional to the amount of money that
you
manage if you know anything about
personal finance you know Monica Halen
the first personal finance journalist of
India best-selling author and adviser to
sebbi on investor protection are among
just the few things that make her the
personal finance Guru and today she's
all set to talk money with us so today
of course we are here with someone who
at least for our viewers needs no
introduction first thing You' would like
to know is in terms of your professional
career right uh how did your journey
start there and where are you at right
now you know how has that Journey been
first income is um business today I
joined as trainy researcher right out
out of Delhi School of Economics
something like, 1650 rupees you know
small salary so began my career as a
business journalist and then I was with
economic Times and that is the time I
made a transition into something called
personal finance this is 1997 personal
finance was not a thing back then 91 the
reforms had just happened the market had
just opened up and I remember the first
product so I knew my maths right I know
Excel sheets right so the first product
I put through my Excel sheet was public
Provident fund I just did the mats on
what 5,000 rupees a month for 15 20 30
years would lead up to in a compounding
interest product m and I remember the
impact it had in the entire building
like you know they were saying you can
become a Cory with ppf just putting this
much so nobody had done the math till
then right so that's how I realized the
power of using really my training as an
economist being familiar with numbers
putting it through the prism of retail
products to tell people what does it
mean for you in terms of the markets
which are there today right over the
number of years till now
uh what kind of evolution have you seen
in the way personal finance is viewed do
you think there's been a change and if
yes is it there to a level which you
think is ideal now at least in the
Indian markets you know it's a good
question because when I started there
used to be the FD Insurance gold real
estate investor right and there used to
be people who would gamble on the stock
market the IPO and the uh SATA type of
correct investing the Penny Stock
Investing and I began some TV shows at
that time one with TV very early on the
questions which would come were very
typical short-term questions I have
50,000 Rupees what what should I do with
it the biggest reform in India in the
financial sector has been done by
sebbi where today we have markets which
are in terms of the world I think the
most efficient I must talk about the
work done in the space of mutual funds
it was in 2009 that Mr CB B who was the
then chairman of sebi he took a very
hard call so there was Miss selling
happening in the whole mutual fund space
they were uh churning investors he took
away the front commission so not many
people know that that mutual funds were
allowed to charge 7% of your investment
as a commission at a stroke he took that
away he made India one of the first
markets in the world where mutual funds
SP no load zero load and because I was
closely associated with this whole
decision I had actually people calling
me up and saying congratulations you
have killed the industry wow that policy
really transformed the market back in
2009 of course India is a large country
you will have all kinds of people but I
think a significant portion of people
who have been investing have come to
realize that a structured goal-based
route to financial empowerment is really
the best way and I think uh right now in
personal finance the most popular word
which we hear is fire right financially
independent retire early what do you
think is the right time to start working
on achieving this goal of financial
Independence and one more thing I'd like
to ask anything which most of the people
would usually want to know is am I too
late to start like is there something
like too late to start so you pretty
much actually do start the day you start
working in the organized sector right
because you have something called The
Provident fund deductions so you already
doing something and typically what
happens is your late 20s mid till your
mid-30s it's a time of great expenses
the ability to do large savings for your
retirement is not there so even if you
can just do another 5% on top of the PF
that you're doing it's not bad at all
this for the initial years you
mentioning because you don't have Elbow
Room see there's no point also again for
all the young people who are listening
you know you're going to be in your 20s
and 30s just once of course okay you
will get older and these these are the
decades in which you have a you know you
enjoy your life you're young you can do
things and also what your generation
needs to remember is that your 50s
decade will be your highest earning
decade so your your ability to save in
your 50s decade is very high families
save 40 50 60% of their take home your
risk in your 50s decade is to get
replaced by somebody in their 30s
because you're a very high cost correct
resource for the company so you've got
to you've got to really understand that
in your 50s you should have a skill set
that makes the company keep you and I
think ma'am uh we are talking about
financial Independence and the major
question which someone talks about is
what's the number so all I can I want to
share is that the fire Target of course
has been reached right and the current
income which comes is available to be
spent oh lovely do you think there is an
ideal Copus per se see retirement is one
of the toughest problems to solve
because one you don't know what
inflation levels will be you don't know
what the economy will be like you don't
know how much how long you will work you
know so there are so many moving parts
that you can only get a ballpack figure
so one way is to look at your spending
at ag60 and do a multiplier so I'll tell
you the method that I use you take what
you are spending a year today and you
extrapolate it to 860 you use an
inflation calculator then some very good
calculators on the seev site right you
multiply that number by 26 so it'll come
into cres H that is the number which
will allow you to not eat up your
Capital leave a be for your
airs and eat maybe half your Capital if
you plan to eat up your entire Corpus
then you multiply by 18 if you want to
leave your entire corus to your airs
then multiply by 35 I've taken 26
because when you multiply by 35 it's a
very very large number right and there's
a second way that you can do it where
you are making Milestones according to
your age so at age 40 you should have
three times of your annual income at age
50 six times of your annual income okay
and AG 60 eight times of your annual
income so there's a difference in the
annual income and the annual spending
numbers right so those are the
Milestones that you need to look at to
see whether you are well prepared or not
for your retirement and these two
numbers when you do the math they are
within a ballpark of each other my
personal views is just this that being
financially independent does not mean
that you stop working so in in a lot of
the studies it shows that money comes at
number three in terms of the things
which give you satisfaction in life what
gives you the most satisfaction is
meaning in life so your desire for that
Financial Corpus is
valid you must do it but also remember
to have something to do true so it is
important Financial stability
Independence very important equally
important to think through the rest of
your 35 40 Years of your life as to what
you will do so ma'am we've uh discussed
about you know how your first 4A sort of
into personal finance was this
calculator on uh ppf right and how the
compounding sort of shocked everyone uh
today with these multiple investment
options out you know out there for
everyone to invest what are your
opinions on the traditional instruments
um which are there today NPS ppf EPF EPF
ppf according to me form the core of
your long-term investing portfolio for
people who are able to invest more than
that required one and a half lakh The
NPS is meant for people who don't have
EPF NPS is a great product it's
structured in a way where uh Miss
selling is not possible my only issue
with the NPS is that at the time of
retirement at 60 when you get your money
back at vesting stage you get 60% of the
Corpus and that's taxfree which is
fantastic but you have to compul sarily
buy an annuity with 40% of your
retirement money who sells the annuities
insurance companies insurance companies
in India have not covered themselves up
with glory in terms of being fair to
investors I don't see the sense of
handing over 40% of my money to an
insurance company to buy an annuity from
them especially at an age where I can
not earn fresh money so that remains my
problem with the NPS if the NPS was to
give me 100% of my money back at
retirement absolutely no questions asked
but this 40% which is handed over to an
insurance company I have a big problem
with so ma'am uh key question right who
manages the the money in your family I
think this is something which you all
would want to know and the answer is
very simple I do he has now become a
participant and now we manage it
together but for many many years I was
the person who managed all the finances
all the taxes all the decisions the
actual doing the Redeeming the investing
we do exactly what I write in my books
our entire assets are in mutual funds I
don't we both don't own a sing single
stock H and we are both Believers in not
having too many properties it's a messy
clunky asset so one house that we live
in that's it so this house actually uh
we bought about 3 years back right the
first house we bought was 2009 when we
sold that and bought this one rest the
entire asset pile is mutual funds the
allocation is 70% Equity 30% debt that's
what the allocation looks like I am not
recommending this to people my age but I
think we are both Finance people we know
what we are doing to other people in
their 50s I would recommend a lower
Equity allocation but that's where what
we are at I think one factor which you
know even which I've seen across
conversation different colleagues is uh
you know female participation in markets
our in general controll of finances or
managing of finances uh what is your
view in terms of how there is you know
participation of women in finance today
and has that sort of changed over the
past you know 20 30 years which you've
been around in the market it's changing
but very slowly slower than what I would
like and there are a lot of
non-financial reasons for that typically
girls are not brought up to look after
money and that's what they see in their
homes the mother looks after the
household expenses Investments are made
by the father it's not very pleasant to
say
but you want to keep the girl child out
of knowing how many assets there are so
that she doesn't ask for her share
because the assets they go down the mail
line right so they are sort of kept out
of those asset decisions and that
translates into the way that women look
at money I have to tell you so if I'm
going somewhere if it's a social evening
or something and they ask me what you do
and I say Financial education the
women's response nine out of 10 times is
oh I know nothing about it and we harm
ourselves we taking a knife and sticking
it in ourselves because money is power
and you're giving that power away have
you seen a change at least to some
extent today than maybe 10 years ago
it's very slow there is a little bit of
change but it is very slow so all women
work women work inside the house and
some women also work outside the house
so the woman who's also earning is so
busy managing both that she simply
doesn't have the time to look after
there's one more thing to do and that's
the one job not the laundry not the kids
that's the one job the man is happy to
take of managing money of taking over
decisions I'm not saying that she gets
cheated out of it but there are stories
of Investments of the woman's money only
being done in the man's name so
especially to women who are listening to
this you have to put on your money
oxygen mask right share do job sharing
in some other part of your life but at
least start participating in where the
money is going you can ask simple
questions what assets do we have in
whose name are there where is the
paperwork what do I have in my name I
think you should not be shy to ask these
questions because countless divorced
women who I've spoken to have said that
we had no idea that we had nothing on
our name wow because India doesn't have
what is called community of marital
property right which means that assets
built during the period of a marriage if
it were to end are split 50/50 that's
what it means India doesn't have it the
asset belongs to the person who in whose
name that asset is so if the woman's
salary has been managing the house and
the man's salary savings have built an
asset and there is a divorce he walks
away with the assets and you have your
dry cleaning bills that's what you have
so be careful ensure that you have
Assets in your name see the paperwork
finally it's your life so uh ma'am this
habit of you know saving or learning
about personal finance is something
which I I feel at least maybe should be
inculcated slightly earlier I mean at
least for me personally as well I was
not so much aware but when I started
earning my brother immediately made me
invest do you think uh inculcating these
sort of habits and awareness um you know
during a stage of being a kid will help
in the future Journey absolutely I mean
the more money aware they are in terms
of growing up while they're growing up
it only is a life skill that you teach
them and kids will do as you do they
won't do as you say so they will look at
your spending habits they will observe
your investing habits and learn from
that so if you want your children to not
spend foolishly then you have to stop
spending foolishly and one thing which
you must do is tell them the impact of
choices that choices have consequences
and I'll share a very small personal
story with you our daughter was very
young I think she would have been seven
or eight 8 years old mhm and uh we were
out book
shopping so there was this old Books
store where they were selling used books
and there was a new book store so I
think it was some 200 rupees which I
said that you can buy books from if you
buy old books you'll buy three if you
buy a new book you'll get one I don't
remember it she remembers it very
clearly that I was trying to make no
moral judgment I think I spent time
explaining that uh you know these this
is your choice there is Merit to having
a shiny new book there is Merit to
having three books right and she
remembers sort of listening to me
because she had two because she had made
up her mind that three in any case is
better than one okay so those are the
sort of choices you can help them make
at a very early age right touching on
something within your family right um
were people in your family always
receptive to you know Financial advice
coming from you in like the larger group
and has that changed over the years very
interesting question there is a saying
in Hindi Dia and your family is almost
the last to on board other than of
course my husband the extended family
took some time I think the biggest
transition was in my
father who also used to be an economics
professor but you know he was part of
that generation who lost money in unit
64 and said sub scam but it is as
recently I think as just 10 years back
15 years back that he fully transitioned
to mutual funds so it's taken some time
what I want to share with you and all
the other people watching this is that
it's very important to
document your financial life right so I
began this journey many years ago I have
a spiral diary where I started putting
down you know basic things like Adar pan
Bank Account
Details this diary and I sorry it's a
little bit of tough love I call it if I
die before you file okay if I die before
you there is a whole list of things
right all the financial relationships
the names of the planner the name of uh
the lawyers the platforms through which
you invest right all of those details
are there in that document and I must
tell you that uh a book will be
releasing soon lovely the title will
come out soon where it'll help people
record these things it'll be a record
book which you can keep for use today
day and if something happens to you
it'll be the road map for your family so
this is a document that I have
personally used and I'm bringing it for
use for everyone else as well and ma'am
in terms of your expenses which you've
done in your life right I need to ask
you is there any uh expense which you
have regretted you know any uh thing
which you said maybe I should not have
bought this so earlier there wasn't any
money for this and by the time the money
came the desires were not that many I
think the way that we spend reflects on
deep feelings within ourselves so if you
feel insecure about something that
crutch off that branded product might
help you feel better so I think it's
important for us to decipher why we want
to buy true and in fact um I sort of
read this interesting anecdote where you
know someone was questioning who is
really a wealthy person and uh the
person answered you know it's that guy
who walks in with absolutely normal
clothes like a you know sweatshirt walks
into a three Michelin star and leaves a
50% tip for the you know person who
serve them just because they can the way
that I see money is how you earn it and
what you do with it true how you earn it
is a reflection on who you are how you
spend it as a reflection on who you are
so money is good earn it in a manner
which gives you and others
dignity and spend it in a manner which
helps you absolutely so I used to be a
financial coward
I could not take risk the family
background was such uh we were middle
class we went into lower middle class
and then climbed our way up and the idea
that by taking what is known as risk we
could lose it all I get frozen so risk
is about the mind but risk is equally
about your emotions at the vital level
and I think my vital dominated my mind
and uh for a long time I was unable to
move and luckily she was there I said
you know what you take all the money
just put it don't tell me I don't I
don't want to know I don't need to know
now of course it's a joint participative
effort but for a long time I just got
the money invested and did not tell him
where it was going money is not an ego
trip your masculinity is is not directly
proportional to the amount of money that
you manage uh so whoever is the smarter
person give the money money is a good is
a good thing to have and
it it smoothens a lot of problems in
life it's not the only thing but it
smoothens a lot of things in life so uh
keep your ego aside and let the better
person manage the money and if you can't
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