GEF Madrid 2024: AI, Art, and Humanities

00:00

well excellent and welcome everybody I'm

00:02

very happy to be here and to conduct

00:04

this round table my name is ftis lope

00:07

I'm the CEO of L education and I would

00:09

love to welcome you and to welcome all

00:11

of the participant to this uh panel

00:14

where we are going to address a topic

00:16

that not only Define our present but

00:18

build it will also share the future of

00:21

Education culture and Society the

00:24

intersection of artificial intelligence

00:26

art and Humanity what begin as a

00:29

futurist promise H is now a palpable

00:32

reality AI integrated into every aspect

00:35

of digital interaction artificial

00:37

intelligence poses challenges and

00:39

opportunities that go to the heart of

00:41

Being Human we Face ethical questions

00:44

about privacy algorism bias at trer

00:47

University well thank you all of you for

00:50

your participation I would like to start

00:52

this conversation speaking about the

00:54

role of the humanities the role that

00:56

Humanities play in shaping a critical

00:59

understanding of artificial

01:02

intelligence so who who would like to

01:06

start I can jump in okay great um and

01:11

I'm going to start kind of like at the

01:12

end of this talk I kind of like had this

01:14

one already ready to go uh but uh every

01:18

technological advance that we've been

01:21

through uh needs to be backed by some

01:26

strong humanist perspective on the field

01:29

of uh sociology philosophy uh like any

01:33

any discipline really um for it not to

01:37

go completely bunkers and unravel in a

01:40

in a bad way that's my take on this

01:44

perfect who would like to I would say

01:46

that sorry thank you very much h i I

01:49

would say that the role of humanities

01:52

today is key is more than ever before

01:57

and and and and the proof of that is

01:59

that today in the different panels and

02:02

conferences there are topics like what

02:04

is human what is to be human nowadays

02:09

that is something that never happens

02:10

before when when internet appears in in

02:13

the landscape H at the 9s when I I was

02:17

there maybe some of you as well there

02:21

was no thought about that it wasn't it

02:24

doesn't mind the importance was to

02:27

develop the technology but there there

02:30

was not many um conversation or

02:34

discussion about

02:37

philosophy you know arts or what it it

02:40

will be H the impact of the internet in

02:43

the life of the of the people 30 years

02:46

after we we see what is the impact in

02:48

some in some point is not the best thing

02:51

that we were expecting internet the

02:53

internet is not the thing that we were

02:55

thinking at the '90s but now with the

02:58

artificial intelligence the the

03:00

discussion is like the is in the first

03:04

uh point you know we are we are speaking

03:06

about what is the impact before EA ER

03:10

reach you know a a higher point of

03:14

development uh let me um uh answer this

03:17

question from um computer science and AI

03:21

point of view I I'm myself an AI

03:22

researcher for the last 30 years and and

03:24

um uh being a computer scientist and AI

03:28

researcher um put me from a very

03:31

different Viewpoint so so uh 15 years

03:34

ago um I started a lab called the art

03:36

and AI Lab at ruggers with the focus of

03:39

interacting with people in Humanities

03:42

art historian and uh people in art

03:44

schools um about how AI um uh can uh

03:50

influence uh U art and uh uh art history

03:55

but also how can we advance AI um uh by

03:57

looking at creative uh

04:00

uh projects however the the main

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conclusion I I I I came to realize that

04:06

um people in Humanities have very

04:08

different viewpoints of things and very

04:11

different questions and and uh concern

04:14

and being a computer scientist knowing

04:16

exactly um how people in AI how how

04:19

people who develop and research AI think

04:22

I realize that people uh in this domain

04:24

have no idea whatsoever about what are

04:27

the concern of of the people in in

04:28

humanities disciplines and and that's

04:31

very alarming to me uh because most of

04:34

the people who work on developing AI

04:36

never ask questions about uh the ethical

04:39

implication of what they doing uh uh the

04:42

philosophy of knowledge um um very

04:46

fundamental question that people in

04:48

Humanities uh look at and study and and

04:52

that's very alarming because um there a

04:54

division in silos in Academia go back

04:57

200 300 years and and now it's time to

05:01

break these silos and and and bring

05:03

together Humanities and Science and and

05:06

technology in ways to educate

05:09

people doing the AI development about

05:11

these issues so I think Humanities now

05:14

has a role more than ever to break out

05:16

of their academic um uh um uh pubble and

05:22

Bridge into people in AI to educate them

05:26

and and uh inform them about the

05:27

important issues that um has to be

05:31

addressed anyone else well I would agree

05:34

with

05:36

that and in fact it's it's very

05:38

interesting to see how the recent

05:40

advancements in generative AI uh most

05:45

notably chat Bots like chat gbt um which

05:49

are touching one um uh aspect that is

05:53

very human which is

05:54

language uh so these advancements uh

05:58

have uh um produced um Keen interest in

06:03

in ethics for example which is something

06:07

that uh I think it wasn't that much uh

06:12

on on on the scenario so far so when the

06:16

internet uh started as I think you

06:19

mentioned um nobody was asking

06:22

themselves ethical issues about the

06:24

internet or how how this uh would make

06:28

us lesser or or more human or how are we

06:32

different from but uh once language is

06:34

Mastered by the machines then all these

06:37

things uh start to

06:39

to um to have importance and the other

06:43

thing that I just wanted to to say maybe

06:46

it's not very uh relevant in in this

06:49

table is that uh the usually uh from

06:52

from our uh so I come from the

06:54

technological um part and when we think

06:58

of humanities

07:00

we think how can we help uh research in

07:02

Humanities for example no so uh there's

07:05

a branch called digital Humanities and

07:08

this is a branch where uh we try to we

07:11

try to make this bridge between uh these

07:14

both communities but maybe more in the

07:17

sense that hey we are uh technical

07:20

people how can we help you uh what kind

07:22

of tools do you need to do your research

07:25

but it's a good thing to the other way

07:27

around no how can Humanities help uh um

07:32

how technology is developed I would like

07:35

to address something like art from I

07:38

mean the very beginning of humanity I

07:41

mean this is something that is literally

07:44

attached to human beings like being

07:46

artistic so how do you believe

07:49

artificial intelligence is going to

07:50

transform the production and the

07:52

conception of

07:54

art I have just sto so I wouldn't art

07:57

art is TE know exactly I was from from

08:00

from the very beginning every every art

08:03

is technology in the execution of the

08:05

art there is you know the part of

08:08

imagination you know the the things that

08:10

happens this morning in a Martini say

08:14

the things that happen in the mind

08:15

within the mind that nobody really knows

08:18

very well how how it works ER but at the

08:22

end of the day you you need technology

08:24

er er we saw this morning the the the

08:28

alamir paintings that's technology to to

08:32

to make that even ignio say it this is

08:35

the PowerPoint of that time so is

08:38

technology H now we have a a it seems a

08:41

very powerful technology that will

08:44

allows creators to create more and to

08:48

dream more to reach a a new er scenarios

08:54

where technology will allows them to

08:56

make new things AI is not a problem for

09:00

creativity yeah is a problem for those

09:03

that doesn't create nothing but but for

09:06

creators it's not any

09:10

problem um yeah I have a couple of

09:12

points to say here

09:15

um as was mentioned uh with every

09:17

technology um um artists always take

09:20

notice and and use technology and and

09:22

over history you look at over history

09:24

every technology that affected art only

09:28

made more people will become artist

09:30

because it allowed more more and more

09:32

people being able to expresss so from

09:35

The Time Of Invention of uh uh oil bins

09:38

to the time of invention of brand making

09:39

to the time of Photography to digital

09:41

art to now ai more and more people can

09:44

express themselves creatively and can

09:46

call themselves artists this one one

09:48

good thing we had a survey um a couple

09:51

of years ago about um we talk to to

09:54

artists who use AI to understand what is

09:57

the value that AI bring to them

09:59

and um among many different answers it

10:02

was clear that there are two things that

10:04

artists like about AI um creative

10:07

inspiration and creative volume uh by

10:10

creative inspiration I mean or they mean

10:13

that AI can really Inspire them and give

10:16

them new ideas that they never thought

10:18

of new directions and creative volume

10:22

meaning that uh AI can help them create

10:24

things at scale fast so if you an artist

10:27

you don't have the luxury to have a work

10:29

shop uh will be able to work with you a

10:32

I can really help you in that so these

10:34

are great value for artist however that

10:36

comes with a

10:38

very uh very U problematic issues that

10:42

we have to address and number one is um

10:45

artist identity because um art uh the

10:50

fundamental thing about being an artist

10:52

is your unique identity that's how it

10:54

distinguish you from anybody else or

10:56

other artist and that's what uh great

10:59

artists are about um and my my concern

11:05

uh is how art making using AI how AI

11:09

being used in in making art affect uh

11:13

this artist identity um uh that was a

11:16

problem that happened before in

11:17

photography when came around um and

11:20

there was a famous case in in France in

11:23

about 1870 where people wanted to

11:26

copyright photography and it was

11:27

rejected because they thought

11:29

photography is not art and it was very

11:31

crucial to answer this question how the

11:33

photography can carry your personality

11:36

and any artistic identity and once this

11:38

was settled photography was declared to

11:40

be an art form and that's the question

11:43

we have now because we and you can use

11:45

the same AI system and there's no

11:48

difference between what I'm generating

11:49

and what you're generating other than a

11:52

random generator at the back a

11:53

background playing a rool of chance in

11:57

make you making something and I'm making

11:59

something different so where is my

12:00

identity where is your identity and that

12:02

can be wiped or lost um and unless

12:05

artists are aware of that and and use

12:07

the tools in a wise way to keep their

12:10

identity I'm worried that that uh their

12:12

identity will be lost that's one of the

12:14

biggest concern but sorry it's I see

12:17

that there are different things one is

12:19

creation and and the other is copyright

12:21

there are different things H but but for

12:24

example we we we don't know exactly who

12:27

painted some uh paint things from

12:29

Leonardo Ain right because it was their

12:34

their discipl not not really the him he

12:38

was he developed a kind and style but

12:43

but but there were other people who who

12:45

paint the the pictures sorry the

12:47

paintings so there are it's it's very

12:51

difficult I I I agree with you H but but

12:54

there are from my point of view a

12:56

different thing copyright is key for for

12:58

the cultural Industries is key but the

13:01

other is creativity if I can jump in

13:04

real quick on that um I wouldn't reduce

13:07

like an artist identity solely to what a

13:11

machine can probably recreate which

13:14

would be something like along the lines

13:15

of style or or fashion or whatever but

13:20

rather I would consider Artistry as a

13:23

particular view on the world that

13:26

someone projects on a particular Moment

13:28

In Time

13:29

so yeah I mean I mean a style is also

13:32

not for the artist to own it's something

13:34

that's been given to it by years of

13:36

studying and it's full of references and

13:39

influ influences and everything um i'

13:42

I'd rather like to see it as something

13:44

that is actually probably not not able a

13:47

machine for it to replicate which would

13:49

be like that particular view on the

13:51

world um so style I would I wouldn't

13:55

worry that much about it like I mean

13:57

anyone can copy your style if if it's

13:59

good enough technically so it's not not

14:02

not that important I never never

14:03

mentioned old style is not what I mean

14:05

by artistic identity I exactly mean what

14:07

you me meant because art identity in my

14:09

my sense is basically how is your view

14:10

of the world come to play in your art

14:13

it's not that style at all it's not your

14:15

view and your view view as an artist is

14:17

very unique to you and that I would like

14:19

to see in art and and that's what's

14:21

being lost today when you use uh AI to

14:23

make art not not 100% but majority of it

14:27

if you go to something like mid Journey

14:29

for example and look at what's on there

14:31

they all look the same for me I don't

14:32

see the art the the the because a

14:35

doesn't make make art exactly but but

14:37

but these are helps to make totally but

14:39

these are that's a make art that's yeah

14:41

these are these are human artists who

14:44

use the AI to make art and think it as

14:46

their art but in in fact they all look

14:49

the same for me because something is

14:51

lost here which is artist identity so

14:53

it's not just about style it's about

14:55

basically um how the AI is trained how

14:58

AI

14:59

understand what you what you're trying

15:00

to do and enforce certain um uh uh uh

15:06

Concepts in in in in the artist being

15:09

generated and and and that's where

15:11

certain artists don't like it at all

15:13

because their artistic identity is is

15:16

lost and and others embrace it but are

15:20

not aware of uh what's happening in

15:22

terms of uh their identity being lost

15:25

okay there's no art without creativity

15:27

uh so what what role does creativity

15:30

play in the intersection of artificial

15:32

intelligence art and

15:38

Humanities okay H as a art and music

15:42

professor at the

15:46

youc um we have a project aasia it's a

15:51

arti artificial intelligence H based in

15:56

the Fine Arts

16:00

um for us um the most important

16:08

um is complexion

16:13

uh art uh

16:16

humanity and

16:18

skills of a

16:20

class ER how int how artificial

16:25

intelligence can uh produce uh

16:33

okay thank

16:57

you for

17:52

journe diffusion and open

17:56

a copilot D 3

18:07

in

18:24

[Music]

18:46

great so let's speak about opportunities

18:49

and limitation uh collaboration is

18:52

important in every areas so I would like

18:55

to uh speak now and I would like to

18:58

listen to you about your vision about

18:59

the opportunities and limitation of

19:01

collaboration between artists humanist

19:04

and AI

19:08

expert um well I can mention that uh

19:11

recently uh the Barcelona super

19:14

Computing center collaborated with um

19:17

with one uh cultural institution in

19:19

Barcelona called uh cccb Cent

19:23

cultural in an exhibition on uh Ai and

19:28

the collaboration um materialized in a

19:31

in two or three um

19:35

installations and uh so that was uh the

19:39

purpose of the of those installations

19:40

was create something

19:42

artistic uh that would use uh AI

19:48

technology so that the public could uh

19:51

learn a little bit about this technology

19:54

and uh for example one of the

19:56

installations um was a collaboration

19:59

with a a singer a woman singing and she

20:04

had she had the idea of course the

20:06

artist has the design the techn the the

20:11

the technological part just provides the

20:13

support and so she had this idea of of

20:17

uh having her voice uh cloned and then

20:20

she created as UMO

20:30

Sonic space where her her voices

20:34

resonated and and

20:36

and so that was one one of the projects

20:40

and um and in another uh a poet uh had

20:46

gave us uh his material his PO his poems

20:50

uh his texts uh and we and and we find

20:54

tune a language model on his production

20:57

and and had

21:00

uh system uh producing uh poetry in the

21:05

style of this person and a voice uh I

21:09

think we gated his voice too and we had

21:11

the The Voice uh reading allow the the

21:14

poems things like that so that was uh

21:16

like playing playful things um but uh we

21:22

had what this collaboration yeah I think

21:27

that that we we need to to recover I I

21:30

came back again to the birth of the

21:32

internet where uh people from

21:36

design ER

21:38

Engineers ER philosophers everybody was

21:41

working on the development of the

21:43

internet ER artist always that

21:47

technology was linked to the art to the

21:50

culture during the way we we lost the we

21:53

lost the focus and we need to recover

21:56

that if not we will done we will not

21:59

achieve a healthy AI we will create a

22:03

new kind of I don't know a machine

22:06

culture or or what it say for some

22:10

authors an algorithmic culture but is

22:13

what from my point of view is what we

22:15

don't need we need the human culture ass

22:18

assisted by the machines because we we

22:21

could create more as as you what say but

22:25

not a a culture that is not from from us

22:28

is created by algorithms just for

22:31

algorithms because today algorithms

22:33

learn as you probably know algorithms

22:36

learn from from each other they don't

22:38

need human intervention ER and and for

22:43

that for that reason

22:46

ER art culture design H has to H

22:52

collaborate with Engineers because if we

22:55

let AI only for engineers it's not going

22:58

going to

23:00

work if I can add um as an artist myself

23:04

graphical artist for the last four five

23:06

years as a freelance artist this is

23:09

completely Game Changer and it's already

23:11

in my pipeline already implemented it

23:14

works lets me have two clients instead

23:16

of one um it's working and you just need

23:19

to find the right tool set I I kind of

23:22

imagine it the not not I I didn't get

23:26

that that part in my generation but my

23:28

seniors generation of artists would talk

23:32

about when Photoshop came into the

23:35

production pipeline of graphs Graphics

23:38

in general and uh yeah they thought it

23:41

was the end of everything and it just

23:43

made everyone make a lot more money so

23:47

that's that's my yeah we are getting

23:49

close to the end I have two more

23:51

question I would like you to do a little

23:53

exercise to make and to foster a great

23:56

public understanding uh actually the AI

24:00

and its societal

24:03

implication so we can give them an idea

24:06

about what implications are for society

24:09

are going to

24:11

be there go there's going to be uh a

24:15

very big impact I think that we cannot

24:17

uh yet predict uh how this impact will

24:21

look like but uh it will have an impact

24:24

at all

24:26

levels well it's going to be

24:30

yes in in in

24:32

some blogs I read something like AI

24:36

somebody that knows AI are going to are

24:39

going to H you know substitute you is

24:43

not true because all of us we are going

24:45

to use AI everybody it's like in in

24:49

different levels for an artist is a

24:51

different thing for you know and people

24:54

working in the office is office

24:57

augmented uh

24:59

and this thing but we all of us we are

25:01

going to use AI um the thing is as you

25:05

say that we didn't really know we don't

25:08

really know until what point is going to

25:11

change things because we are now you

25:14

know as as I used to say crossing the

25:17

bridge while we are building the bridge

25:19

so we don't know what what is the end

25:22

even we don't know what is the end of

25:24

the impact of the internet so um

25:28

well we we we have to see and and that's

25:31

the reason we need scientist artist

25:34

designers and everybody in play on

25:57

this for

26:34

I would like to conclude speaking and

26:37

can you speak about ethic what are the

26:40

ethical challenges the integration of AI

26:44

pose in art and

26:47

Humanities so we were speaking before

26:49

about what is being an artist me if it's

26:52

artistic or not I mean you can keep the

26:54

essence of an artic so what are the

26:57

implications the ethical implications of

27:00

AI in art and Humanities the bigest one

27:03

you can well there there is a lot of

27:08

implications

27:10

what no there is I think for for example

27:13

what in the US they call the fair fair

27:15

use ER of of of an a previous work this

27:20

is something that now is in discussion

27:21

even in Spain is not being the same than

27:24

the US and and and the and the Jes Rec

27:28

recognize that that an nft is not a

27:31

transformed art H so in the US is just

27:35

the reverse you cannot do this kind of

27:38

transformation of the art so we we need

27:41

to this discussion about ethics and and

27:44

the respect to the to the works of the

27:47

of an artist something that we need to

27:49

speak a lot more and we need the help

27:51

you know of the of of of the people that

27:54

writes the laws and and and everything

27:57

but together with with that is is there

27:59

is something that for me is very

28:00

interesting that is why why there there

28:03

is no in in open AI Microsoft who

28:07

whoever and CEO well they they have a

28:11

CEO but not a chief ethical officer they

28:14

need a chief e ethical officer within

28:17

the companies to analyze all the um all

28:21

the all the different you know the

28:24

things that are implied with

28:26

AI Maria Kier as artist that you are

28:30

actually how do you envision that I mean

28:33

what are the main ethical

28:35

challenges You can predict and you can

28:38

Envision about AI in art and Humanities

28:41

I would love to to hear you since you

28:43

are both

28:46

artist

28:49

um I don't I don't know really it needs

28:52

to be explored yet uh copyright and all

28:56

of that is always an issue but I mean

28:58

that's been an issue

29:00

since since the beginning of Arts really

29:03

and uh there's been also a bunch of

29:06

artistic movements that have actually

29:08

played along with with with that idea of

29:12

replication and proprietary

29:16

art um I wouldn't be concerned I think

29:19

it's an opportunity also a great new

29:21

medium also a new place to start new

29:24

conversations and explore also new

29:26

topics like how how like how does a

29:29

machine work with a human what is what

29:32

is cyborg what is like all of the other

29:34

things that we are yet to explore so I

29:37

wouldn't be concerned really right now

29:39

at this

29:57

moment for

30:50

I just want to add um or comment about

30:52

the copyright issue I think um um

30:55

copyright can be a fundamental problem

30:57

um because in the past um copyright was

31:00

um a problem between two entities you

31:03

you you if you copyright somebody um uh

31:07

um you and the one person who you copy

31:10

from have a problem but now it's a three

31:14

body problem because as a user of the

31:16

system you can end up violating the

31:18

copyright of somebody without without

31:20

even knowing you can regenerate

31:22

something and you have no idea that

31:24

that's actually a derivative of somebody

31:26

else work and you don't don't know and

31:28

you maybe you didn't even intend to do

31:30

that but you end up with an ethical

31:32

problem that you didn't know about and

31:34

that's a big uh problem that comes with

31:37

AI now uh because the way AI is built

31:40

now just to um reuse uh what have been

31:44

it had been trained on to generate new

31:46

things so that's a very obvious ethical

31:49

problem that need to be

31:52

addressed let me just add that this

31:54

affects uh for example other uh types of

31:57

work not strictly artistic but for

32:00

example I've heard translators and I've

32:03

heard um people that um use their voice

32:07

as a means of work like actors

32:11

um like people that read um ebooks for

32:15

example so these people are complaining

32:18

that um um the so the the machines are

32:24

learning from their

32:28

work they are taking their output as

32:32

input for the creating systems that are

32:35

in competition with them so that's an

32:39

ethical

32:41

problem sorry

32:43

open is addressing this because I don't

32:46

know if you test that if you if you um

32:50

submit or upload a a a book to chbd and

32:55

you say ER make a 20 Pages resume

33:01

summarize of the book you you get the

33:04

the the message I can do that because of

33:07

copyright so some some AI companies are

33:11

already addressing that because they are

33:13

accumulating suit suits from a lot of

33:17

yes but sometimes copyright will not

33:19

protect you for example a translator

33:21

that works for a company and so uh their

33:27

translation

33:28

[Music]

33:30

um yeah I guess belong to the company

33:33

and the company uses uh these

33:34

translations to build a system that uh

33:38

will automatically translate and can no

33:41

eventually get rid of the translator the

33:43

human translator I live with that every

33:45

day because we we test H voice clation

33:49

voice cloning voice cloning or sythetic

33:52

voice and and there are exactly ethical

33:56

limits because actors an actress right

33:58

owns their voice so so you cannot use

34:01

that right to to use it in a another to

34:05

train a system right and and people are

34:07

losing their jobs right now in this area

34:10

so when we're talking about the impact

34:12

uh the impact is happening right now so

34:14

there are professions that the impact

34:16

happen too during Industrial Revolution

34:18

too every time there change in society I

34:20

mean exactly the impact obviously new

34:23

jobs appear all some jobs

34:26

disappear so so well that has been

34:29

everything uh today thank you so much uh

34:33

for being here and for participating in

34:35

this panel has been a pleasure to have

34:37

all of you here thank you much thanks

34:40

[Applause]