This Artist Became Successful Without Being a Master

Summary

In this insightful podcast episode, the host engages in a deep conversation with Sam Lewis, an accomplished art YouTuber with a decade of experience. They delve into the challenges of building a successful online presence from scratch, emphasizing the importance of perseverance, continuous learning, and the ability to adapt. Sam candidly shares his journey, from solo beginnings to running a Brooklyn studio, and the ongoing struggle to balance passion with the practicalities of monetization and audience engagement. The discussion highlights the value of starting without being fully prepared, iterating based on feedback, and the reality of the ups and downs in the creative process. The episode serves as both an inspiration and a practical guide for aspiring content creators and artists, reminding them that success is a journey, not a destination.

Takeaways

• 😀 Success in creative endeavors like YouTube often requires perseverance and a long-term commitment before seeing any financial returns.
• 🛠️ The importance of execution is highlighted; creating and sharing work consistently is more important than waiting for perfection.
• 🚀 Starting a project without full preparation is encouraged as a way to learn and grow, rather than being held back by the fear of not being ready.
• 🎨 For artists, the journey of improvement can be non-linear, with periods of plateaus followed by significant leaps in skill.
• 🔄 The cycle of creating, reflecting, and iterating is presented as a fundamental process for growth in any creative field.
• 🤝 Building a community and surrounding oneself with like-minded individuals can be beneficial for motivation and improvement.
• 👀 The struggle with comparison and the need to focus on one's own progress rather than others' achievements is acknowledged.
• 💡 The value of finding joy in the process of creation, rather than solely on the outcome or audience reception, is emphasized.
• 💼 Balancing the artistic and business aspects of a creative career is crucial, and can involve wearing different 'hats' and mindsets.
• 🔑 The key to overcoming creative blocks and achieving long-term success is the ability to adapt, learn from failures, and keep pushing forward.

Q & A

How long did it take for the YouTuber to start making money on YouTube?

It took the YouTuber 3 and a half years of grinding on YouTube before making a dollar.

What is the main focus of the YouTuber's channel?

The main focus of the YouTuber's channel is art, including figure drawing classes, hosting a podcast, and creating larger paintings.

What does the YouTuber attribute to much of his success?

The YouTuber attributes much of his success to execution, doing things, and creating content consistently over time.

How does the YouTuber feel about the importance of starting before being entirely prepared?

The YouTuber emphasizes the importance of just starting and doing things without being entirely prepared, as it allows for growth and improvement over time.

What is the YouTuber's perspective on the relationship between viewership and subscriber count?

The YouTuber believes that viewership is more important than subscriber count, as it reflects the actual engagement with the content.

How does the YouTuber handle the fear and vulnerability associated with putting creative work out into the world?

The YouTuber acknowledges the fear and vulnerability but suggests that one must be okay with putting work out there, regardless of the fear, and learn from the process.

What advice does the YouTuber give for dealing with the ups and downs of success and failure in creative endeavors?

The YouTuber advises to keep going regardless of the ups and downs, focusing on the process and the love for the work rather than just the outcome.

What does the YouTuber suggest as the best way to find one's style or improve at making creative content?

The YouTuber suggests that the best way to find one's style or improve is through consistent practice and doing the work over a long period of time.

How does the YouTuber view the journey of success in the creative field?

The YouTuber views the journey of success as an ongoing process with no clear end point, where the true success is the ability to continue doing the work and keep improving.

What is the YouTuber's opinion on the importance of monetization in the early stages of a creative project?

The YouTuber believes that monetization should not be the primary focus in the early stages, but rather the passion and enjoyment of the work should come first.

How does the YouTuber approach the balance between creating for personal satisfaction and creating for an audience?

The YouTuber approaches this balance by prioritizing personal satisfaction and ensuring that the work aligns with personal interests and passions, while also considering the audience.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Pursuit of Success and Overcoming Challenges on YouTube

The speaker reflects on their 3.5-year journey on YouTube before earning any income, emphasizing that success is about persistence and continuous improvement. They discuss an interview with Sam Lewis, an art YouTuber who transitioned from a solo endeavor to a larger studio in Brooklyn, hosting classes and a podcast. The episode focuses on turning YouTube into a full-time job and the importance of starting to pursue dreams without delay. The speaker also mentions their own struggles with finishing projects and the importance of execution, sharing the advice that one must simply start and consistently work on improving their craft.

05:01

😔 The Reality of Fluctuating Success on Social Media

This paragraph delves into the ups and downs of the speaker's YouTube channel, which has experienced a decline in viewership over the past eight months. They discuss the effort put into creating content, such as painting and editing, and the disappointment when videos do not perform as expected. The speaker acknowledges the challenges of balancing the desire for viewership and financial success with the reality of an unpredictable online environment. They also touch on the importance of overcoming fear and being prepared for continuous failure as part of the creative process.

10:01

🤔 Balancing Passion with the Practicalities of Commerce

The speaker discusses the dichotomy between creating art purely for the love of it and the need to consider commercial aspects to gain viewership and entertain. They describe the difficulty of balancing artistic integrity with the necessity to compromise and adapt to the medium, such as creating content that will attract an audience. The speaker also shares their own experiences with the challenges of juggling different mindsets, from purely creative to business-oriented, and the importance of finding joy and fulfillment in the process itself.

15:02

🚀 Incremental Growth and the Importance of Consistent Action

The speaker emphasizes the importance of taking incremental steps and being consistent in one's efforts to improve and grow, whether in art, YouTube, or any other field. They discuss the idea of gathering information through doing, experimenting, and learning from each attempt. The speaker also highlights the need to separate the love of the process from the desire for monetary success and viewership, suggesting that the pure joy of creation should be the primary motivator.

20:05

💪 Overcoming Resistance and Embracing the Journey

The speaker talks about the importance of pushing past resistance and struggling to do the work necessary to achieve one's goals. They share their own experiences with the constant worry and to-do lists that come with pursuing a creative career. The speaker encourages finding ways to cope with these emotions and stresses that the ability to do so is what leads to success. They also discuss the idea of the 'journey before destination' and the importance of finding joy in the process of creation.

25:06

🎨 The Artistic Journey and the Fundamentals of Improvement

The speaker discusses the importance of fundamentals in art and the process of improvement, which can be slow and challenging. They share their personal experiences with traditional oil painting and academic drawing, describing the satisfaction that comes from seeing oneself improve. The speaker also touches on the idea of self-gratification in art and the importance of starting and trying, regardless of the end goal.

30:06

🔍 The Plateauing Effect and Learning to Focus on Personal Growth

The speaker explores the concept of improvement plateaus in learning and skill development, describing how progress can be a series of levels and plateaus. They discuss the psychological impact of these plateaus and the importance of focusing on personal growth rather than comparing oneself to others. The speaker also shares insights on the importance of being open to feedback and learning from a variety of sources.

35:08

🤝 The Value of Community and Finding Your Own Path to Success

The speaker talks about the importance of surrounding oneself with like-minded individuals who are also striving to improve. They discuss the potential downsides of being around those who are already highly successful and the benefits of being part of a community of peers. The speaker also emphasizes the need to find one's own version of success and the importance of doing what one loves without being tied to a specific identity or career path.

👋 Encouraging Others to Keep Creating and the Importance of Execution

The speaker encourages others to keep creating and sharing their work, regardless of the number of views or followers. They stress the importance of execution and following through with projects, even when faced with self-doubt or the fear that others may not appreciate the work. The speaker also discusses the value of sharing perspectives and experiences, as well as the idea of choosing projects based on personal interest rather than solely on financial gain.

Keywords

💡YouTuber

A YouTuber refers to an individual who creates and shares content on the video-sharing platform, YouTube. In the context of the video, the term is used to describe the host and his guest, Sam Lewis, who are both content creators on YouTube. The video discusses the journey and challenges faced by YouTubers in establishing and sustaining their channels.

💡Monetization

Monetization in the context of YouTube refers to the process of generating income from the content one creates and shares on the platform. The script mentions the struggle of monetizing a YouTube channel, with the host mentioning that it took him 3 and a half years before he made a dollar from his YouTube efforts.

💡Executing

Executing, in the video, refers to the act of carrying out plans or following through with ideas and projects. It is highlighted as a key attribute to success, as the host and guest discuss the importance of not just preparing but actually doing and creating content consistently.

💡Creativity

Creativity is a central theme in the video, as it discusses the process of creating art and content. The term is used to describe the original ideas and projects that the host and Sam Lewis undertake, emphasizing the importance of being creative in producing unique and engaging content for their audience.

💡Success

Success in the video is not strictly defined by monetary gain or fame but rather by the ability to continue doing what one loves and to keep growing. The host talks about the true success being the ability to keep going and pursuing one's passion despite the challenges.

💡Vulnerability

Vulnerability is mentioned in relation to putting one's work out for public consumption, particularly on social media platforms like YouTube. The script discusses how creators can feel insecure or exposed when sharing their creations, which can be a barrier to starting or continuing their online presence.

💡Fear

Fear is a recurring theme in the video, addressing the apprehension and anxiety that creators face when starting out or when taking risks with their content. The discussion touches on overcoming the fear of failure and the fear of not being good enough as a driving force to keep creating and improving.

💡Intention

Intention is discussed in terms of the purpose behind creating content and pursuing a career as a YouTuber. The video emphasizes the importance of starting with pure intentions, such as the love for creating, rather than focusing solely on monetary success or fame.

💡Growth

Growth in the video refers to personal development and the expansion of one's skills and audience. The host and guest talk about the importance of continuous learning and improvement, both in terms of artistic skills and business acumen, to grow as a content creator.

💡Sustainability

Sustainability in this context refers to the ability to maintain one's creative pursuits over time in a way that is economically viable and personally fulfilling. The discussion highlights the challenges of making a living from YouTube and the need to balance passion with practical considerations.

Highlights

The journey to success on YouTube can be long and challenging, often taking years before earning any income.

Sam Lewis, an art YouTuber, started modestly without experience and eventually moved to a larger studio in Brooklyn.

The importance of not waiting to start pursuing dreams and making YouTube a full-time living is discussed.

Executing and doing things consistently is attributed to much of Sam's success.

The conversation emphasizes the need to start creating content without being entirely prepared.

Monetizing content and doing it sustainably is a focus, even when not feeling entirely ready.

The struggle with finishing projects and the advice to simply start doing things is highlighted.

Overcoming the fear of putting work out there and the vulnerability that comes with it is discussed.

The realization that success is not a destination but a continuous journey is shared.

The conversation touches on the fluctuating nature of views and the fickleness of online success.

The importance of intention in projects and balancing creative fulfillment with financial needs is covered.

The discussion of the difference between the joy of creating for oneself versus the pressure of business outcomes.

The idea that subscriber count is less important than actual viewership on platforms like YouTube.

The need to keep creating and improving, regardless of the outcome of individual videos.

The conversation about the importance of enjoying the process of creation and not just the end result.

The challenges of balancing art and commerce, and the need to adapt to the medium you're in.

The importance of doing the work, taking risks, and finding your own path to success.

The discussion on the rate of improvement in art and the plateauing effect that can occur.

The advice to focus on your own journey and not compare yourself to others in your field.

The conversation ends with the recommendation to keep creating and sharing your work.

Transcripts

was grinding at YouTube for 3 and 1/2

years before I made a dollar and that

only gave me a spot in the race to even

attempt attempt to be in the game you

never reach success I'm just able to

continue doing it and that is the true

success I'm able to keep going like

that's the only goal really hey guys in

this epod I talk to slooh or Sam Lewis

he's an art YouTuber that's been around

for about 10 years Sam had a pretty

modest start he started doing everything

completely solo without any experience

and then eventually moved to a bigger

studio in Brooklyn where he's able to

host figure drawing classes host a

podcast and also have a spot to do his

larger paintings in this episode we talk

about how we managed to make YouTube his

full-time living and the importance of

not waiting to start pursuing your

dreams also this episode is sponsored by

me if you're interested in supporting me

consider checking out the links to the

courses in the description below

everything I do is funded by me so your

guys' support really does help me make

more content like this thanks and enjoy

the episode I think a lot of people

struggle with trying to finish projects

and trying to get things done and you

know you have built this like pretty

substantial YouTube following kind of

off just doing your own thing and kind

of like experimenting and doing crazy

art projects kind of by yourself and I

guess I wanted to talk to you about like

the act of like just starting doing

things without being entirely prepared

but also being able to monetize it and

do it sustainably all my traits you know

there's a lot that I could say that I'm

not good at or I thought I was good at

and then as I've gotten older was like

oh I actually am not good at this but

one of the things I hold close to and

attribute to a lot of My Success is

executing and just doing things and

making things and doing it a lot just

very simply whatever it is it happen to

be like paintings and seeing through a

creative project like a painting and

then filming it and then seeing through

the edit and then posting it and then

doing that you know hundreds of times

over the course of a few years so

whether the video or the painting was

good or bad it doesn't matter I did it I

I meet a lot of people who are

constantly in like I have to like

constantly prepare or I'm not ready to

do this yeah I hear it all the time too

and it's like like how do I find my

style how do I actually make stuff and

the answer is like you just do it 100%

it's very torturously easy you just have

to do it for a long time and you get

better but you know I heard it all the

time also and it's what holds people

back the most I think is like oh I don't

think I'm good enough or I want to try

to get better before I start putting

things out if we're talking specifically

about like social media or like building

an online brand or business they like

they with withhold putting things out or

like I have so many examples of this for

like kids who want to start companies

let's say they want to like make sure

their designs are perfect or they want

to make sure their promotion even for

the product like make a so like an

Instagram account get good promo for the

Instagram all this stuff they want to

prepare and organize in a row before

they even put it out when the truth of

the matter if you think systematically

and like sort of logically is like you

put things out first you do it as best

as you can and then you look back you

say what can I do better what worked

within and then you do it again and then

you look back at that and then you say

what worked what didn't and then you do

it again so the goal for everyone should

be sort of just put things out again if

we're talking about like social media

and like business but I get you know

it's obvious that people get insecure

and they creative genres or creative

outlets for people are more vulnerable

so they it's harder for them to just

like put things out like I get it you

know it's obvious like you know

especially if we're talking about like

even me when I was making my first

couple videos of a camera talking to

myself with um you know with a painting

that I made I was super nervous to put

it out and even after doing it for a

year I never post it to my personal

Instagram account because I was just

nervous for people to like see me being

vulnerable talking about painting when

some of my friends and family didn't

know I was that into it I mean it seems

like like I'm getting into the stuff

more myself you know after like working

for proo for a long time I was kind of

behind the scenes I didn't have as much

risk M and kind of like taking on more

of the risk myself I'm seeing how the

fear never really goes away you know

totally like you were talking about how

you know you're at this end of you're

you're at the end of like some Journey

where you have this six studio and you

you know you have a big following and

somebody might look at that as the like

end of the journey yeah where you've

made it you're not anxious about stuff

anymore but I'm sure now you're still it

it's scary it's still it's still hard

yeah it's different anxieties but yeah

of course I'm still like that's not the

end I mean there's a hundred different

sort of rabbit holes we can go down now

but like or in this conversation like

yeah you always want more you want your

business to do more you want to get more

views and yeah the studio cuz people

don't they just see from the outside

like yeah the studio is sick it's a

Dream It's a pipe dream for me it's a

lot of responsibility like we were just

talking about but also if you dive into

the weeds of my analytics Like My Views

aren't that good actually you know like

actually for the past eight months my

YouTube channel has been going really

sort of downward and I'll have a good

video here and there and it will bring

in people but so that's like something

people don't realize and there's all

these other things going around that you

know it's super fickle I don't get

nervous about putting my work out

anymore like I I do what I I'm lucky to

do exactly what I want so and I've done

it enough where like I I'm pretty

confident with what I make in terms of

how I like it it's more of the time

allocation versus and that affirmation

it's like oh I just put in like you know

50 hours painting I put in 40 hours

editing a video and the video did bad

it's like

dang I love the painting but you know a

lot of the intention of doing that

project was to like benefit my YouTube

channel and make money because now I

have this business I have all these

other responsibilities so it's like [ __ ]

like regardless of people like it or not

which is great if they write nice

comments it's more of like dang I just

wasted like 2 weeks you know like that's

a lot of time and it was fun sure but

like I've already I've kind of I'm I'm a

little past the fun part like everything

is fun but like I'm not just you know

there's a lot of you know things I need

to do I don't know if you get what I'm

saying but it's different for someone

who like is just trying to build it and

get views in general if they're not

worried about the upkeep of their studio

and everyone has bills to pay but like

you know there's that Bob Ross quote

where it's something like you know as

long as you painted you had a good day

at a certain point it's like that's not

true like if you painted and you didn't

make any money then you don't get to

paint anymore exactly and I think that

part of all this stuff is learning to

overcome the fear and being okay with

the failure as it comes because it's

going to keep coming that's exactly

right so and that's and that goes for

both for people in my position right now

because like I said there's been like a

lot of months in the past you know half

year where like I do those week or two

week long projects and I don't get sort

of like the viewership I'm expecting but

there's never I have never had a thought

in my mind where I'm going to stop it's

always on to the next one always no

matter how down in the dumps I am about

it you know so that's what is important

is to and obviously and it's funny this

goes to the cliche thing but that's

where like the passion comes you know

and intention so like intention pie

chart you need to make money you need to

be creatively fulfilled you want to grow

your brand you want to experiment you

want to get new skills those are all

things you could could do within one

painting project one YouTube video but

for people that are like just starting

out their intentions are just or a lot

of people their intentions are like oh

this is an Avenue to success or this

creative Outlet is an Avenue to make

money where that's like the wrong way to

start cuz you'll probably be let down

and you'll probably not have good

experiences because to get lucky just

starting out it's slim unless you're

like really really good and have like

really good insight to maneuver over the

year but like the intention for most

people with anything is just to do it

cuz you want to and try hard and you

know be smart

about finding opportunities to take

advantage of but you know like I almost

Relish in the days is that the right

word like I missed the days when I was

just

painting something I've never tried

before like a big stencil project like

this tattoo I remember this is actually

the one that like kind of blew my

channel up in the beginning but it was

one of my favorite canvas projects and I

there was

nothing no overarching reason why I was

doing it I just wanted to do a big

painting project I had free time and I

it it was 100% 100% pure like bu me for

me and I wanted to film a cool video

about it you know up to that point I was

making zerar on YouTube and taking it so

seriously so my intentions were like

pure where now it's impossible to sort

of get that Purity I still do projects

that I love and want and and for just

the pure joy but there is so much more

within the intention pie chart now than

back then yeah and my intention was

never to make money it was a pipe dream

obviously you know if I could do exactly

what I want with a pure joy situation

and make money of course but it wasn't

like a

realistic pip it's like Oh and it goes

both ways too like when you have the

failures you feel like quitting yeah but

when you have the successes it's not

like you're finished either you know

it's like inevitably you're going to hit

a video and it's going to really well

and the next is not going to do as well

and it's going to feel bad you just went

through this yeah yeah I for people that

I I've been making videos for 3 years

you know and I'm not a massive Channel I

have like 7,000 subscribers now or

something and also I hate let's just get

this out of the way for a second people

are so concentrate on the subscriber

that is not that has nothing to do with

anything these days it's just viewership

right it's like monthly viewership it's

like yeah Stan or me I have 340,000

subscribers but my videos get like

10,000 views to like 60,000 views or

sometimes more so it's like anyways yeah

that's just one of my pet peeves my one

pet peeve it's like it's just viewership

so you had a good video you have 7,000

subscribers but you had a video to 140

or something yeah yeah well and it feels

great but then I released the next video

and it was like it was different and I

was trying out something new and it

didn't do nearly as well it was like 600

views or something yeah and I think that

like if if I was a little bit less less

experienced with the failure of my P or

failure right or the attempts of my past

three years I might might have been like

oh man like no one likes me you know no

one likes this next video you know and I

think uh the falling in love with the

process and kind of doing what you want

before everything else and figuring out

the business stuff afterwards seems like

the only way to actually keep the whole

thing interesting and sustainable I mean

it's just like it's I'm not like I'm not

some Sensei Master but it it seems all

very logical and rational to understand

the idea of like how to improve at

anything it's incremental it's

experimenting it's doing that thing a

lot to gather a bunch of information on

what you like what you're good at what

works and then constantly doing it more

to slowly improve and so again if we're

specifically talking about like YouTube

or like growing a Channel or like

getting good at drawing you know like

I'm just beating a dead horse it's just

like you just got to do it a lot and the

only way you're going to do it a lot is

if you like to do it yeah and

obviously you know if someone was paying

me a million dollars to like pick up

trash I'd probably pick up trash but I

wouldn't [ __ ] like to do it but i' do

it so if you're making a bunch of money

obviously it's going to help and if

you're getting a lot of views and people

are screaming they love your work and

things that obviously helps

but you know that's not realistic and

especially if you're starting out you

just got to do it a lot and the only way

to do it a lot is to be into it and so I

think a lot of people Force it you know

like again this isn't sometimes you

don't know what you like and it goes

back and forth um but you got to find

out you know okay is this something I'm

willing to put time and effort into and

if it is then just have fun with it and

experiment for like two years and then

if you get opportunities like I said

before then res situate but I mean we're

also just cursed especially the short

form I mean the world is just cursed

with um how fast things should happen

you know monetary success viewership

success it's like people like want to do

it for like three months and then they

give up or shorter you know so it's

like there's a lot of like horribleness

in the world that um like that

perspective I think is sort of a little

of a virus yeah yeah well and uh I think

that part of this is also just adapting

to whatever medium that you're in CU

yeah like if we lived in an isolated

environment just ourselves we might just

paint we might just do like the art that

we want to do but part of being a person

I think Beyond just the survival stuff

is Commerce and having to say and do

things that get people to watch and you

know are entertained by you um and that

compromise I think could be a little bit

uh existentially scary because you have

to uh compromise like your soul or the

thing that you know you would be doing

otherwise and I've talked to a lot of

people about this where like art brain

and business brain are almost two

completely different things you know

yeah where the act of painting you have

to be completely out of it to do a good

painting and when you're making a video

Everything has to be considered and yeah

uh be able to jump between the two

different mindsets I think is pretty

complicated totally um and it takes

practice and but it's fun it's like that

I like that it's like you're switching

between different hats like constantly

and it's fun and multitasking but yeah

it's not it's not for everyone and like

all these things I'm saying like I don't

want to sound like a know- at all like I

struggle with it all the time still I

mean like even talking about learning

new things and trying to get like quick

validation or quick success like I'm a

victim of it also like with the podcast

I thought I was just going to like be

able to do that and it was awesome for a

lot of reasons but it wasn't sustainable

in a lot of the intention I put into it

or even you know like short form for

example like I haven't really like gone

into it and like it's a really great

outlet and if you're thinking of

business to like really sort of like

start having like original short form

content all these things I'm like ah I

don't want to do it and I'm like being

an old Crogan about it so it's like twe

each his own

but yeah I think

the and it's like I keep thinking it's

like how many times can you listen to

successful people not that I'm that but

like I've listened to a zillian podcast

and everyone says the same thing I think

that's why I actually did what I did

because I would just listen to people be

like hey you just got to do it a lot and

like you got to like get better and just

like keep doing it it's like what's

another tangible way to get that across

I don't know you know like how do you

convince people to just like you just

got to work at it you just got to get

better you just got to try and if you

don't want to continue that's fine if

you get frustrated then keep doing it

and if you get too frustrated that you

want to stop then you're not going to

like make it but it's like you just got

to keep going yeah yeah well and just

doing the work and I think going like on

a broader level in the same way that

people might study drawing too much

before making paintings they might study

business too much before actually trying

to make a business they might listen to

too many [ __ ] like uh Andrew huberman

podcasts or too many like business e

podcasts before you know they're

thinking about like what would Jeff

Bezos do you know versus like you know

how do you like edit a video to to

Market something or whatever exactly

yeah yeah and then you never actually

start and do anything you just like

think about it that's the other thing

that I always talk about is like

everyone has good ideas you know anyone

can think about a path to take or like

oh this might be the best route you know

anyone could think of

like a mediumly unique version of that

individual genre or painting or business

or brand but it's less than 1% of people

who actually try it you know that's what

I'm saying it's like everyone can talk

and everyone can think about doing

things but not a lot of people start and

actually execute consistently and I get

it because it is a risk if you don't

have a disposable income you know like

it doesn't make sense to start that and

drop everything that's why a lot of the

people I know who have like transitioned

sort of in their more adult life sort of

had a full-time job and then outside of

it hustled and gr grinded you know which

is like very realistic and sounds like

the safe way to go um I was a little

different because I had different

circumstances but like that's super

realistic and then if it does pick up

after doing things for a while then you

can say hey I'm going to stop the

full-time job and dedicate all my time

to this still a risk but with you know

um more confidence to um continue sort

of penetrating yeah yeah and then in the

baby steps as well yeah exactly like

yeah the person we were just hanging

with was asking me like where my YouTube

channel transitioned and like when I

started to become full-time and it's

like it was years you know there was no

day or night it was like a snowball over

years three I was grinding at YouTube

for three and a half years before I made

a dollar yeah and then and that only

gave me we were saying before that only

gave

me you know um a spot in the race to

even attempt attempt to be in the game

you know it's like I was just waiting in

line for the actual line you know and

then I was like okay I could try so yeah

it's like it looking back you could

pinpoint spots or like oh this was a big

deal or like this video was tangibly

tangibly a big deal moment but

everything that led up to that was like

years and and still now it's like I'm

still going up and down and up and down

and trying to figure out what my next

moves are and strategizing so yeah well

and it takes a lot of work and it's it's

you want but you're still doing other

freelance jobs totally yeah yeah just

like help pay the bills I'm taking yeah

videography editing jobs for sure when

the money's right and like it's it's

worth it for sure I mean there's no

reason I you know it's a quick job like

I almost

idolize like the nineo fs or like

In-N-Out jobs you know where like you

work really hard and then you get to

stop working hard yeah you know that the

part of the curse of us and these people

who are in these positions are like or

for me at least it's like I go to bed

thinking of things I need to do and some

of it's exciting and dopamine feeling

but a lot of it's just like worrying

what I need to do endless to-do list

wake up thinking that and go to sleep

thinking that you know there is no off

time maybe I'm not in my studio but yeah

it's always running being able to cope

with those emotions is ultimately like

what leads people to become the people

that everyone looks up to you know it's

like the ability to just push past that

you know resistance or struggle or

whatever you want to call it to just go

and do the work like do the editing do

the filming yeah you know do the

Creative thing take little risks yeah

again going back to the idea that I had

a video that did well recently if I

stopped there's no point in even doing

that video video in the first place you

know exactly it's all about the next one

totally it's always about the next one

and that's the thing you never arrive

like you're saying you never you never

reach success you know like I'm at a

bigger scale than I am than when I

started but I I wouldn't consider myself

successful I'm just able to continue

doing it you know and that is the true

success is that I'm I'm I'm able to keep

going like that's the only goal really

it's like yeah it would be sick to buy a

house yeah it be sick to do all these

but like the true goal at its core is

just to keep keep it alive and maintain

my freedom within well I I think it

relates to drawing kind of like an

existential sense because you need so

much Faith at the very beginning of your

art journey to even keep going like to

go into a place like the Watts or you

know some fancy art school and you see

somebody doing this amazing work and

they're 30 years in it's like oh I have

30 years of work before I can even do

that you know and you're doing these you

know like stent level drawings or

whatever you have to have some amount of

faith and optimism for the future in

order to just keep keep going yeah and

it's like it's really nuanced it's hard

to like really exemplify what we're

talking about cuz we're talking very

specifically about you know my path your

path our sort of world but there you

know it's not all how do I say

this it's not all doom and gloom like

it's all it's all very like low stress

low stakes you know it's like just and

we're we're hyperfocused cuz I like to

talk about and you like to talk about

like the business side of it which is

important but like there's so many ways

to make money and there's so many things

to do you just have to

like you just have to try things and I

think I feel like so contradictory

and hypocritical but it's like you you

almost just have to like do a bunch of

random things and then see what kind of

works you know like if your goal is to

be an art YouTuber okay there's a lot of

things you look up how to do it how to

get better and you could sort of stay on

that path for hopefully a long time and

then eventually get there but like if

you just like art or if you just like

video making like there's sort of like a

fractal infinite amount of things to do

those things it doesn't have to be

become a YouTuber you know you know like

most people who are watching this are

not trying to do what we're doing you

know they're trying to like make a comic

book or they're trying to like even just

like go to work in the morning and just

like do their graphic their graphic

design job or even their accounting job

you know and I think it's like whatever

goal that you're working towards there's

like fundamental laws of just trying to

be creative and be and accomplish things

that carry over whether it's YouTube

videos or poetry or music or whatever

and pushing through it and taking risks

and all that kind of stuff can make you

like a lot more legit at your Law Firm

or something totally I mean you're just

going to feel more confident also the

the great thing about art specifically

is like seeing yourself improve is

pretty addicting like that that was

probably

especially I mean just improving

anything is like you want to just get

better I mean it feels good especially

if it's something you want to do and you

see yourself improving you're

like I will never stop you know if this

is like the trend I'm going to keep

going but like specifically for like the

traditional oil painting like my more

graphic stuff back in the day

was I was getting better skills to make

the art but it wasn't really like a

language it was just like more puzzle

engineering like coming up with

characters and understanding lighting

and like the more fundamentals of

drawing but like entering the world of

like traditional oil painting and like

academic drawing that was like super

addicting and I go towards that because

there's so much sort of feedback loop of

improvement like you know like you can

really improve quickly or you know it's

challenging and so when you do see

yourself level up you're like oh yes it

feels great it's very self-gratifying

and that for a lot of people I think is

all they need they don't need the money

like if you're just working at 95 and

you want to make a comic book you know

on the side like during weekends and you

end up making a cool thing you're going

to feel good so again bringing it all

back you just got to start you got to

try because you're going to you're going

to be amped it's really hard to like put

in a lot of effort you got to be really

you know messed up to like put a lot of

effort in something and not feel good

about it especially if it's something

you want to do we're both tring fans of

like wave of kings and stuff it's like

Journey before destination and it's a

cliche and it's it's but did he

trademark that I don't that's like a

very normal thing it's like Journey

everyone says that or like take the beat

and Offroad path or something yeah but

yeah it's a mantra of that having 30

million subscribers is not the goal like

if you had that tomorrow you'd be

ecstatic for sure like a day guess what

after four or five months your new

normal yeah yeah yeah yeah a new normal

and I think which is psycho to think but

it's true well and uh trying to find you

know the love and the enjoyment and just

like learning how to render a video you

know or paying attention to like sound

settings or something all that kind of

stuff just trying to make the best thing

you possibly can with the tools in front

of you totally I mean I know about you

but I I watch my videos more than anyone

I mean once they're out it's done but

like I'm so excited for the most part

making videos to like that's why I

started cuz I like to see the process of

how things are made yeah and then I like

to make things so I was like oh pretty

obvious connection there and so yeah

it's like Euphoria editing the video and

seeing the video and like telling the

story and watched it a million times and

then I don't of course but like it gets

me amped it's not just like making

something for an audience no yeah I mean

there's again that intention pie chart

sure it's for a little of that but I I

need to like it first you know it's get

a video I want to make and I I think it

always comes back down yeah to just

doing the work and you know just like

and it on an more existential level

again going back to drawing it's like go

back to the fundamentals you know study

the Spheres and cylind which I didn't I

mean specifically I need to literally do

that cuz I I I skipped that I tried to

take the quick route and you can see it

in a lot of my art a lot of my videos

even now like my skills like I I skipped

a lot of fundamentals anyways tangent

but yeah that yeah you just got to yeah

slow and steady try your best everyone's

screwed though you know with the Advent

of AI and everything instantly I mean

we're already instant creatures but it's

hard I mean so you have to really

traditional media art specifically is

like it's almost foreign in how slow

yeah the practice

is actual operation of drawing and

painting but also like the the

Improvement Loop and the the gratifying

the self-gratification loop so it's just

a different sort of

perhaps you

know you know marry go around that a lot

of people in their normal lives don't go

to but it's really Des and people are

only getting more amped about it like

people are only getting more into

drawing I think you know it's just like

books you think like oh people are

reading books anymore year-over year

there's more books being made than the

year before the crazy I was talking to

Stan Stan's best year was last year

crazy it's crazy that's crazy insane

that's really good I mean that's a good

business mine has not been like that

I've been really like this but

again the goal isn't to I'm not in the

scaling position per se I'm more of like

how much better can I do of a job in my

output right rather than like you know I

would like employees and things but yeah

it's I got a question for you cuz I

think something else that's important

for Fine Art specifically and I talk

about this a lot at my um my figure

drawing sessions is like the rate at

Improvement everyone it's not this you

know it's not a I don't know what

mathematical s cosine this is like

exponent it's it's plateauing it's like

stairs I think is more realistic it's

like you level up and then you do the

same thing you train really hard and

it's all the same and you're like what

the [ __ ] you're like what the hell I'm

working so hard but then you'll level up

again and it will be a big level up and

I've I've felt and witnessed these in

myself and it's like oh my gosh dude

like something clicks and you level up

and then you plateau again a lot and I

think that's really interesting and it's

and it's more challenging I think to

continue if it if it were different you

know if it was just like really obvious

super slow um increasing then it would

be easier for people to keep doing it

because it's like oh it's almost a

guarantee if I'm going to get better day

every day it's like every 6 months you

get better what do you think about that

those things and those plateauing I

think it it's like almost The Universe

telling you

to stop caring so much about what's

happening with other people you know

yeah cuz the act of learning how to draw

or learning how to do anything play the

piano takes a lot of time and effort

just being bad at it it's Mo it's like

99% bad and I I think the way to

actually learn how to draw is to just

step outside yourself as much as

possible and just be okay with who you

are as much as you possibly can you know

and it it's pretty like uh humbling for

people to like go into a place like the

Watts or going to a place you know like

dude oh my God I was literally like felt

like slapped in the face by God I went

in there be really good at something and

then to humble yourself in a way uh to

actually go and do the work I I think

it's that's the hard part like it'd be I

think it's harder for me now to go and

learn drawing than it was when I was in

my early 20s I was like I have more

things that I'm egotistical about now

than I you know I agree same with me and

I've sort of given up that hope of being

like a really really

like high-end fine artist like I I'm

going to keep painting I'm going to keep

trying to push my skills but it I my

like expectations are a lot lower lower

and not to say that's like sad but it's

just like I have so many other things um

and I don't really know where I'm going

with that but um yeah the comparison is

the really really hard part and in

business in your colleagues and it is

really hard and obviously the easy

answer or what you should do is just

focus on yourself but it's easier said

than done and it's like how do you do

that you just got to know what you want

to do and if you're not doing it as good

as you thought you were then take a real

look at yourself and say how can I

switch things up and do it better one of

my worst traits and I could look back

and hate myself for it not actually but

like is that I I think I'm overconfident

a lot and I still am in a probably a lot

of ways but how I did things I was like

oh yeah this is like how you do it the

best and I'm great at this and I don't

need to like or I don't need other

people's feedback or opinions and like I

would take it but I don't think I

absorbed it yeah and it didn't get like

internalized and only like years later

that I realize like oh wow I actually

you know there's way better ways to do

this or this is you know this has

actually

been been had doing wrong for a while

and I learned how to fix it way later

than I should have does that make sense

so yeah I have as I've gotten older I'm

like wow I really need to like listen to

other people's opinion about either my

work business Str structure strategy

anything you know so I was kind of like

two tunnel vision in the beginning and I

was doing fine so was easy to do that

but I'm like oh I I wish I had some more

feedback well and again going back to

the beginning of the conversation

there's a balance there because if you

listen to too much feedback then you

just never do anything totally I think

it's like or you never do things you

never learn for yourself yeah yeah for

for me I tell like the thing that I tell

people is like I made a point of like

surrounding myself with like what I

perceive as like the best art teachers

and business people that literally you

did that and and it's like it didn't

make me want to draw more it actually

like discouraged me you know because

it's like so much to live up to and it's

like uh and it's it's an internal thing

I'm not trying to blame those people but

I think that trying to get your

motivation structures in your brain

working takes a lot of uh just operating

at your own level like not looking up or

down or wherever for motivation just

looking like oh yeah this is what I can

do and you know like this is obvious not

an exact um example but what probably

would have been better than surround

yourself with Jeff and proo even though

that is extremely valuable let's not be

naive what would probably have helped

you more is if you surround yourself

with equal hungry people to get better

absolutely you know what I mean that are

grinding with you at the same level to

improve yeah rather than just you know

proximity to the best yeah and that's

hard you need to get friends you need to

get like minded people that's where like

the communities are important but right

well like like it's part of the reason I

lived in the van too it's just like you

know it's like you know to try and step

outside of all that hero worship and

just kind of just do my own thing and uh

the crazy part about this is like there

are so many different versions of

success and we can look at someone like

Jeff or Stan or whoever as being these

like paradigms of what it means to be

like a YouTuber or a fine artist or

whatever but ultimately it's about like

you know like you can be successful in

completely different ways doing the

opposite of what they would tell you to

do 100% absolutely I mean think of can't

imagine I mean I can because I just

filmed a documentary on stand but like

everyone's looking up to him or this in

this example and we're and Jeff but like

they're probably also looking outside

and looking like oh what can I you know

so it's it never ends yeah and yeah it's

a I go back it's like again it's so easy

to say these things and you've heard

these people rant about like this so

much what are the tangible ways what are

the real in-person ways to you know stop

comparing become more disciplined

patient it's like I don't know you got

to find out for yourself um everyone's

different you know whether it's like

exercising working

out making videos being grateful yeah

learning getting talking with people

you're really good at connecting with

artists like you connect artists but I

think you're also just like open with to

talking with anyone and that's probably

a good trait to have you know because

you I think if you want to

become Jeff Watts the best you got to

only listen to one person do things one

way but that's not for everyone if you

want to get a bunch of perspectives and

try a bunch of different things and then

find what work you have to you know be

more in your corner of well and and

again I think it just comes down to what

you want personally and what you want to

do and I think that uh for me my version

of small successes started out as doing

things on proo channel and then see

seeing those do well and being like okay

I can all I have to do to figure out

that stuff doing well on my own channel

is just doing the work so it's you know

figuring out right you understood the

formula yeah you just had to try it you

know conversation for a different time

is how do I find out what I want to do

you know what I mean because that's what

a lot of people struggle with yeah what

to actually do in the first place what

do they actually like which is perhaps

episode 2.5 absolutely yeah when I come

to New York next yeah but that's like

that's a real thing cuz like I mean

that's what kids deal with in college

you know they're forced to like pick

they're forced to pick what they want to

do with their life it's like what the

[ __ ] how would you ever know at 18 yeah

well for for you it was painting and

then it turned into video making but it

was like it was always video making and

it was always just like what I was into

I did YouTube I had YouTube channels

about skateboarding about fingerboarding

about video games about Nerf guns yeah

and so video was just

a um appendage of what I was into

graffiti was the next thing and that

just snowballed and I kept the channel

the same I did graffiti then I did

street art then I did murals and then

that was canvases and painting and

traditional artwork and so that was the

lineage but yeah it's always just what

I've been into and you know what maybe I

won't be painting in 5 years maybe I'll

just like do enough and be excited and

I'll find something else that I'll be

into who knows you know like I'm not I'm

not beholden to like the sacred idea of

painting or anything it's just you know

why would I do anything that I don't

want again money is involved you

sometimes have to do what you don't want

to do but if I have the ability to be

free why would I drown in painting

content if it wasn't working anymore

yeah if I didn't like it also I'm saying

well and part of it again I think it

goes back to not tying your identity to

being a painter or an artist and just

doing it following the interest exactly

I I I I've been reading a lot of rck

Rubin yeah and him talking about how

like if you have two options or five

different options and one is more

efficient financially and the other has

more interest always choose the one with

more interest because you in terms of

just pure longevity and the ability to

make something that people care about

it's actually probably going to make

more money you're right yeah you want to

tell people uh just like a piece of

advice like something you you would

recommend to your 20-year-old self like

we could break down the idea real quick

of like executing something and

following through with it yeah whether

you don't do it again but like I was

very sort of um what's the word

pragmatic and organized with a project

before starting I knew it what I wanted

to make I prepared what I needed and how

to make said thing and then I worked

hard and was patient to maintain a level

of quality to make that thing and

through that there's so many times you

want to stop or you think it's shitty or

people won't like it but I always like

kind of finish so I think executing is

like really important and I don't know

what the Webster definition of executing

is but like seen something through like

Go the whole yard and M you know have

the same sort of um focus throughout the

whole thing and yeah but yeah I don't

know the advice is just do it just do it

yeah right shy buff you want to tell

people how to follow you and yeah sure I

mean I'm slooh subscribe to my YouTube

channel and uh subscribe to Christian

because he is really tapping into

awesome artists and getting their

perspective so I think that's valuable

and whether you're getting 600 views or

6 million

there's at least a few real people who

are benefiting from this so I think keep

going