Sexless marriage: a breach of contract
Summary
TLDRIn this talk, Dr. Orion terban addresses the issue of sexless marriages, suggesting that a unilateral decision to stop having sex in a monogamous relationship is akin to cheating. He argues that such a decision breaches the agreement of exclusivity, effectively ending the monogamous aspect of the relationship. Dr. terban encourages considering this perspective and explores the implications for the relationship's other dimensions, advocating for patience and communication but also recognizing the limits of sexual abstinence in a committed partnership.
Takeaways
- 🚫 **Sexless Marriage as Cheating**: Dr. Orion terban posits that categorically refusing sex in a monogamous relationship is a form of cheating.
- 😔 **Emotional Impact**: The experience of sexual rejection within marriage can be hurtful, infuriating, and demoralizing for men.
- 👥 **Mutual Consent**: Sex in a marriage should be consensual and cannot be forced by one party if the other is unwilling.
- 🔄 **Potential for Change**: It's possible to rekindle the sexual aspect of a relationship, but it requires time, effort, and no guarantee of success.
- 🤔 **Self-Improvement**: Men in sexless marriages might need to become more attractive, seductive, or emotionally provocative to improve their situation.
- 📜 **Breaking the Agreement**: Refusing sex can be seen as breaking the monogamous agreement, similar to having an affair.
- 🔄 **Two-Way Cheating**: Cheating isn't just about taking more; it can also be about receiving less than what was agreed upon in a relationship.
- 🏠 **Beyond Sex**: A marriage encompasses more than just sex; it includes children, resources, services, lifestyle, history, and emotions.
- 📝 **Severability Clause**: Just as in contracts, a violation of one term (like sexlessness) doesn't invalidate the entire relationship agreement.
- 🌱 **Patience and Grace**: Long-term relationships may experience fluctuating sexual interest, and it's important to be patient and understanding.
- 🚨 **Final Straw**: If all efforts to resolve a sexless marriage fail, it may indicate that the monogamous agreement is no longer valid.
Q & A
What is the main topic discussed by Dr. Orion terban in the transcript?
-The main topic discussed is sexless marriage and the concept of unilaterally refusing to have sex within an exclusive monogamous relationship being considered a form of cheating.
How does Dr. Orion terban define cheating within the context of a monogamous relationship?
-Dr. Orion terban defines cheating as any intentional violation of the rules of a monogamous relationship, which includes having more than one lover or deciding unilaterally to have no lover at all.
What does Dr. Orion terban suggest is a possible solution for bringing sex back into a dead bedroom?
-Dr. Orion terban suggests that it's possible to bring sex back into a dead bedroom but it requires time, effort, and there's no guarantee that anything will work.
What does Dr. Orion terban mean when he says that men in sexless marriages are no longer in a monogamous relationship?
-Dr. Orion terban means that if a partner in a monogamous relationship decides unilaterally to stop having sex, they are breaching the agreement of exclusivity, thus no longer being in a monogamous relationship.
What does Dr. Orion terban suggest is the consequence of a partner deciding to have no sex in a monogamous relationship?
-Dr. Orion terban suggests that the consequence is that the partner is no longer in a monogamous relationship and should not be held accountable for acting non-monogamously.
What does Dr. Orion terban propose as an analogy to explain the concept of cheating in monogamous relationships?
-Dr. Orion terban uses the analogy of a contract where if one party violates a part of the agreement, the rest of the agreement still stands, but the violated clause is no longer in force.
What does Dr. Orion terban argue about the societal reaction to men who have sex with more than one person versus those who have sex with zero people?
-Dr. Orion terban argues that society often severely punishes men for having sex with more than one person but does not hold the same standard for those who have sex with zero people, despite both being a breach of the monogamous agreement.
What advice does Dr. Orion terban give to men who have been in sexless marriages for years?
-Dr. Orion terban advises that these men are no longer in a monogamous relationship and should consider the monogamy clause as severed from the rest of the relationship agreement.
What is the title of Dr. Orion terban's book, and what does it cover?
-The title of Dr. Orion terban's book is 'The Value of Others'. It covers his economic model of relationships, explains the behavior of men and women in mating and dating, and provides actionable advice on the sexual marketplace.
How does Dr. Orion terban suggest treating sexlessness as a form of cheating might affect its prevalence?
-Dr. Orion terban suggests that treating sexlessness as a form of cheating might help reduce its prevalence by providing a natural consequence for the condition, which is currently not widely recognized.
What does Dr. Orion terban recommend for those who have tried various approaches to resolve a sexless marriage without success?
-Dr. Orion terban recommends that if all attempts have been made and the partner still isn't interested in sex, it may be time to consider that the monogamy clause has been severed from the relationship agreement.
Outlines
💔 The Reality of Sexless Marriages
Dr. Orion Terban discusses the common issue of sexless marriages, particularly where wives unilaterally decide to stop sexual relations. He emphasizes the emotional toll this takes on men, who feel rejected not by a stranger but within the only socially and legally sanctioned place for intimacy — their marriage. Dr. Terban points out that while men may share some responsibility, there is a path to reviving intimacy, though no guarantees. He introduces a controversial idea: that refusing sex in a monogamous relationship constitutes a form of cheating, as it breaches the implicit agreement between the partners.
📖 Redefining Cheating in Monogamous Relationships
Cheating in monogamous relationships, according to Dr. Terban, isn't just about having multiple partners but also about refusing to engage with the one partner in the relationship. He compares this to taking more or receiving less than what was agreed upon in a game. Both forms, he argues, violate the principles of monogamy. He advises men in sexless marriages to recognize that they are no longer in a monogamous relationship, even if society fails to acknowledge this breach in the same way it does with extramarital affairs.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Sexless Marriage
💡Monogamy
💡Cheating
💡Emotional Rejection
💡Unilateral Decision
💡Dead Bedroom
💡Natural Consequence
💡Severability Clause
💡Celibate Relationship
💡Emotional Provocation
Highlights
Dr. Orion Terban introduces the topic of sexless marriages, a common issue brought up in his consultations.
The majority of cases involve the wife unilaterally deciding to end the sexual aspect of the relationship, although it can happen the other way around.
Being sexually rejected in a marriage is particularly hurtful and demoralizing for men, much more so than rejection in dating scenarios.
Terban argues that sexual rejection in a marriage can be extremely painful, as marriage is the only morally and legally sanctioned space for sexual relations.
Men in sexless marriages often feel complicit in their predicament, possibly due to not being attractive or emotionally engaging enough.
Terban believes that it's possible to bring sex back into a dead bedroom, but it requires effort and doesn't always guarantee success.
He presents an unconventional take that categorically refusing to have sex in a monogamous relationship is a form of cheating.
Cheating, in his view, is a violation of the relationship's rules, not only when one has multiple partners but also when one partner decides to have zero partners.
Terban compares sexlessness to stepping out of a monogamous relationship, akin to having an affair.
He asserts that if a man's wife stops sleeping with him, the relationship has shifted from monogamous to celibate, a breach of the marriage agreement.
The breach of sexual exclusivity doesn't automatically dissolve the entire relationship; other dimensions like children, resources, and emotions are still valid.
Terban draws an analogy to contract law, where a violation of one clause (sexlessness) doesn't invalidate the entire contract (marriage).
He advises patience in sexless marriages, as sexual interest can fluctuate over time, but also cautions against infinite patience without accountability.
If efforts to revive the sexual relationship fail, Terban argues that the monogamy clause has been severed, and the partner should not be held to monogamous standards.
Treating sexlessness as a form of cheating may help reduce its prevalence by introducing natural consequences to this condition.
Transcripts
I'm Dr Orion terban and this is psycha
Better Living Through psychology and the
topic of today's short talk is sexless
marriage so this is unfortunately a
problem that many with whom I consult
bring to me it's been five years 10
years since the man has had sex with his
own wife I understand that it can go the
other way but in the vast majority of
cases it's the wife not the husband who
for whatever reason has decided to
unilaterally terminate the sexual
dimension of the
relationship now being sexually rejected
is a difficult experience for a lot of
men I've made episodes on this topic in
the past however it's another thing
altogether when a man is sexually
rejected not by a girl at a bar or in a
dating app but in his own marriage the
one and only morally and legally
sanctioned place for him to have sex in
the entire universe this can be
extremely hurtful and infuriating
and demoralizing and hopeless for the
man in question any way you cut it it's
quite a slap in the face of course many
of these guys are at least somewhat
complicit in their predicament like they
could often stand to be more attractive
or seductive or emotionally provocative
fortunately it's possible to bring sex
back into a dead bedroom I've made an
episode on that subject as well it just
takes some time and effort to do so
unfortunately there's also no guarantee
that anything will work in this regard
as two people can't really have sex if
one person doesn't want to in any case
it's important that I at least mention
some of this overarching context before
I go any further as I have kind of an
unconventional take on the subject and
here it is my take is that categorically
refusing to have sex in an exclusive
monogamous relationship by unilateral
decision is a form of
cheating a partner who for whatever
reason decides for both parties that sex
isn't going to happen anymore has
stepped out of a monogamous relationship
let's consider this
further what is cheating in the context
of any game cheating occurs when a
player intentionally violates one of the
rules of play and this of course is why
extra partner Affairs are a form of
cheating in a monogamous relationship
they violate one of the rules of play
namely the rule of exclusivity or
monogamy mono means one so having two
partners would be a violation of
monogamy however it's wrong to think
that cheating only occurs in monogamous
relationships when a partner has more
than one lover if you sign up for
monogamy then cheating happens whenever
someone in the relationship
intentionally decides to have not one
partner not just more than one partner
zero is as much not one as two is when
you take more than you agreed to you're
stealing however when you receive less
than you agreed to you're being stolen
from and just like stealing can work
both ways you can take more or receive
less cheating can work both ways
too you can take more or receive Less in
monogamous relations ships having sex
with two people is just as much cheating
as is having sex with zero people
because in both cases you're not having
sex with one person both are a breach of
the
agreement so what I tell these guys who
have been in sexless marriages for years
is that irrespective of their feelings
on the subject they are no longer in a
monogamous relationship like if a man's
wife were sleeping with the pool boy we
would all agree that that man whether he
liked it or not was no longer in a
monogamous relationship by the same
token if a man's wife no longer sleeps
with her husband I would like us to
consider that that man whether he likes
it or not is no longer in a monogamous
relationship he's in a celibate
relationship which we can assume is not
what he signed up for and this would
constitute a breach of the monogamous
relationship agreement
if you appreciate the insights on this
channel I would highly encourage you to
get your hands on a copy of my book the
value of others over the course of 432
pages I delve deep into my economic
model of relationships and explain the
behavior of both men and women in the
game of mating and dating I also provide
a lot of actionable advice on how to get
and keep more of what you want in the
sexual Marketplace once you read the
value of others you'll never look at
relationships the same way again now
available in ebook audiobook and
paperback formats the links are in the
description now when a term is breached
that doesn't necessarily mean that the
whole AR agreement automatically gets
thrown out like people get this wrong
all the time for better or worse our
culture generally believes that cheating
in the sense of having more than one
partner is ground for the complete and
immediate and permanent dissolution of a
relationship like a good father and
faithful provider can have an
indiscretion on a business trip once in
our culture would see nothing wrong with
his wife ending a 20-year marriage
filing for divorce and breaking up their
family which is just wild like
considering how hard it is for many men
to be monogamous expecting
indefinite lifelong perfection in this
regard
and severely punishing the smallest
deviation from that Perfection is
absolutely incredible like it's
incredible that this is normalized and
even more incredible that men continue
to sign up for it given their track
record in any case just like I don't
think that having sex with more than one
person is necessarily grounds for the
complete and immediate and permanent
dissolution of a
relationship I don't think that having
sex with zero people is necessarily
grounds for the same either it can be
but it doesn't have to be like just
because one term in a contract is
violated the whole contract isn't
automatically thrown out a marriage
isn't just about exclusive sexuality
it's also about children and resources
and service and lifestyle and history
and emotions among many other things
relationships are not one-dimensional
For Better or Worse there are many many
components to most long-term
relationships to my mind this means that
if your partner is no longer sleeping
with you you're no longer in a
monogamous relationship but that in and
of itself doesn't mean that the other
dimensions of the relationship must be
invalidated if you've ever read your
contract with your employer or your
landlord you'll likely find somewhere
near the bottom a clause called
severability this basically stipulates
that in the event a party violates a
part of the agreement the rest of the
agreement still stands
the clause in question is severable or
separable from the rest of the contract
this is kind of why if you're a day late
with your rent your landlord can't just
barge into your space or if you don't
have hot water you can't just you can
start to just remodel the apartment
without permission the violation is a
violation and it affects the relevant
Clause but the rest of the contract
remains in
force and that's kind of how I think
about sexless marriages the monogamy
Clause has been violated a sexless
spouse is no longer in a monogamous
relationship and so shouldn't be held
accountable for acting non- monogamously
given that the other partner has already
unilaterally decided this for the other
party but all the other Clauses of the
relationship remain in
force now I don't think this should be
done hastily in long-term relationships
interest in sex can EB and flow so if
this is your primary relationship it's a
good idea to have some grace and
patience with your partner
but there are limits to this as well an
infinite patience and an absence of
accountability may not be great for
sexual
relationships if you've waited and
you've talked about it and you've
explored different arrangements and
you've tried this that and the other and
your monogamous partner still isn't
interested in sex then I hate to tell
you this that is no longer your
monogamous partner and the monogamy
Clause has been severed from the rest of
the relationship agreement
I appreciate this is an unconventional
take but I think it makes a lot of sense
treating sexlessness as a form of
cheating might also help to reduce its
prevalence by providing a kind of
natural consequence to that condition
which doesn't really exist in the
popular imagination at present in any
case I think it's something to
consider what do you think does this fit
with your own experience let me know in
the comments below and please send this
episode to someone who you think might
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as always I appreciate your support and
thank you for listening
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