Israelism Screening and Discussion with Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein, and Simone Zimmerman
Summary
TLDRThe transcript captures a panel discussion acknowledging the Jewish holiday of Tu Bishvat and the significance of land recognition. It addresses the historical and ongoing issues of Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including the impact of Gold Corp's mining operations on indigenous communities. The panel, featuring Dr. Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein, and Simone Zimmerman, emphasizes the need for decolonization, challenging dominant narratives, and supporting Palestinian rights. They discuss the importance of education, solidarity, and the role of Jewish voices in promoting peace and justice.
Takeaways
- 📅 The event begins on the Jewish holiday of Tu Bishvat, known as the New Year for trees.
- 🌳 The location, Musqueam land, is acknowledged for its historical significance as a place of big-leafed maple trees and as unceded territory.
- 🏢 The venue, Gold Corp Centre for the Arts, is criticized for being named after a company with a legacy of harm to indigenous people and environmental degradation.
- 🌱 The importance of recognizing and renaming places in the spirit of decolonization is emphasized.
- 📽 The film screening is part of an effort to raise awareness and promote dialogue about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
- 👥 The panel features a diverse group of speakers, including Dr. Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein, and Simone Zimmerman, who share their perspectives on the conflict.
- 🤝 The event highlights the solidarity of Jewish and non-Jewish voices in advocating for justice and peace.
- 🔥 There is a call to action for the audience to engage with the material presented, seek out further screenings, and discuss the issues with others.
- 🌟 The film and discussion underscore the need for challenging narratives, recognizing trauma, and working towards collective healing and justice.
- 💡 The event concludes with a call to support organizations working towards justice in Palestine and to continue the conversation in communities.
Q & A
What is the significance of Tu Bishvat in the context of the discussion?
-Tu Bishvat is the Jewish holiday of the New Year for trees. It is significant in the context as it relates to the acknowledgment of land and nature, and the speaker hopes to honor this holiday by recognizing the land where maple trees once stood before it was stolen.
What is the meaning of 'kcalay' and why is it mentioned in the script?
-Kcalay is a word that roughly translates to 'the place of the big-leafed maple trees'. It is mentioned to highlight the historical and cultural significance of the land where the event is taking place, and to connect with the indigenous history of the area.
Why is there a call to rename the theater and cultural center named after Gold Corp?
-The call to rename the theater and cultural center is due to Gold Corp's legacy of harmful practices, including environmental degradation, displacement of indigenous communities, and corruption. The speaker suggests that renaming the center is a step towards decolonization and recognizing the ongoing harm caused by such companies.
What is the role of Dr. Gabor Maté in the event?
-Dr. Gabor Maté is a speaker at the event and is introduced as a bestselling author, a survivor of the Nazi Holocaust, and a longtime critic of Israel's policies that harm Palestinians. He is also recognized for his work with patients challenged by drug addiction, mental illness, and HIV in Vancouver.
What is the importance of the film being screened at the event?
-The film is important as it serves as a medium to facilitate a conversation about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the role of Jewish voices in this conflict, and the need for acknowledgment and change. It is a tool for education and a catalyst for dialogue.
What does Naomi Klein mean by 'open warfare against objective reality'?
-Naomi Klein refers to the denial of factual information and reality by certain groups or narratives that favor a particular agenda. In the context of the discussion, it likely pertains to the denial of the realities of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by some Jewish leaders and the media.
Why is there a focus on the trauma experienced by Palestinians?
-The focus on the trauma experienced by Palestinians is to highlight the ongoing suffering and psychological impact of the conflict. It underscores the need for understanding and addressing the human cost of the conflict beyond political discussions.
What is the connection between the Jewish Community Center and the Israeli flag mentioned in the script?
-The connection mentioned is that the Jewish Community Center displays Israeli flags, symbolizing a conflation of Jewish identity with the state of Israel and its policies, which some participants take issue with as not representative of all Jewish people's views.
What is the significance of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the context of the discussion?
-The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is mentioned to draw a parallel between the resistance against oppression in the past and current resistance movements. It highlights the diversity of Jewish responses to oppression and the historical continuum of struggle.
What does the speaker mean when they say 'the never again for anyone'?
-The phrase 'the never again for anyone' refers to the idea that the post-Holocaust sentiment of 'never again' should apply to all people, not just Jews. It emphasizes the universality of human rights and the importance of preventing all forms of genocide and mass atrocities.
How does the speaker suggest dealing with the rise of the far right and white supremacy?
-The speaker suggests that dealing with the rise of the far right and white supremacy involves building solidarity across movements, fighting anti-Semitism within left-wing movements, and creating counter-power through community organizing rather than relying solely on electoral politics.
Outlines
🌳 Recognition of Indigenous Land and Jewish Holiday
The speaker begins by acknowledging the land they are on, recognizing it as the traditional territory of the Musqueam people, and noting the coincidence of the Jewish holiday of Tu Bishvat, the new year for trees. They express hope to honor the holiday by remembering the big-leafed maple trees that once stood there. The speaker also addresses the naming of the theater after Goldcorp, a company with a controversial history of environmental and social impacts, particularly in relation to indigenous lands and people worldwide. There's a call for the renaming of the venue in the spirit of decolonization. Dr. Adele Issaander is introduced, expressing gratitude for the support of independent Jewish voices and the presence of a large crowd, signifying the importance of solidarity during difficult times.
📽️ Introduction to the Film and its Importance
The speaker discusses the difficulty of the conversations surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and emphasizes the importance of not negating anyone's tragedy. The objective is to use these difficult discussions as opportunities for learning, growth, and collective living. They mention the film's popularity, with many screenings across various cities, and encourage the audience to share the film with others. The speaker also introduces the panelists, including Simone Zimmerman, an organizer and strategist in the Jewish left, Dr. Gabor Maté, an author and activist, and Naomi Klein, an award-winning journalist and author. Each panelist is briefly praised for their work and influence.
🗣️ Personal Reflections on the Film and its Impact
Naomi Klein shares her gratitude for being part of an intergenerational conversation about stolen land. She discusses the influence of Holocaust survivors like Dr. Gabor Maté, who have consistently advocated for Palestinian rights. She also expresses her appreciation for the leadership shown by young Jewish activists and the importance of learning, unlearning, and storytelling in bridging divides. The conversation touches on the shame felt by犹太人 when their narratives dominate and overshadow the experiences of Palestinians, emphasizing the need for a reckoning with the supremacist narratives of the past.
🌐 Discussing the Trauma of Colonialism and Leadership
The speaker reflects on the film's portrayal of Jewish community leaders who use fear to maintain control, contrasting this with the leadership shown by the film's subjects. They criticize the conflation of Jewish identity with Zionism and argue for a separation of the two, citing historical examples of Jewish opposition to Zionism. The speaker also discusses the trauma caused by colonialism and the need to challenge dominant narratives that perpetuate this trauma.
📚 Book References and the Impact of Narratives
Dr. Gabor Maté discusses the concept of 'objective warfare against reality' from Naomi Klein's book 'Doppelganger' and relates it to the current political climate. He describes the normalization of dissociation between words and reality, particularly in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He also touches on the shock that arises when events do not align with existing narratives and the difficulty of empathizing with the experiences of others, especially Palestinians.
🌿 Trauma and the Cycle of Colonial Violence
The speaker connects the trauma experienced by Palestinians to the broader history of colonialism and its impact on indigenous people. They discuss the retraumatization of Jewish people through the constant reminder of their own trauma, while ignoring the trauma inflicted on others. The conversation also addresses the role of the media and politicians in perpetuating colonialist mindsets and the importance of challenging these narratives.
🏗️ Reflections on Israel and the Reality of Occupation
Simone Zimmerman shares her experiences in Israel and Palestine, highlighting the stark contrast between life in Tel Aviv and the daily violence faced by Palestinians in the West Bank. She discusses the reality of Israeli apartheid and the need for Jews to confront the denial and celebration of this system within their own communities.
🌎 Challenging the Conflation of Jewishness and Zionism
The speaker addresses the question of separating Israel from Jewish affairs, arguing that the conflation of the two is a choice made by those who conflate them, not by those who seek to separate them. They discuss the history of Jewish opposition to Zionism and the need to build Jewish identity independent of Zionism.
🔄 Intergenerational Shifts in Jewish Identity and Activism
Naomi Klein discusses the intergenerational shift in Jewish identity and activism, emphasizing the need to move beyond an oppositional stance towards a confident and diverse Jewish identity. She explores the ways in which Zionism has historically ended conversations about what it means to be Jewish and the importance of reengaging with these多元 conversations.
🌱 The Roots of Fascism and the Need for Solidarity
The speaker connects the rise of fascism to the historical context of division and the need for solidarity among all oppressed groups. They discuss the importance of fighting anti-Semitism within broader left-wing movements and the need for a unified front against all forms of hatred and oppression.
📉 The Impact of Horror and the Potential for Change
Naomi Klein reflects on the potential for positive change emerging from horrific events, using the Holocaust as an example of how a collective trauma led to significant advancements in international humanitarian law. She emphasizes the need for a commitment to universal principles of equality, justice, and liberation.
🗽 Electoral Politics and the Fight Against Fascism
The speaker addresses the challenges of electoral politics, particularly in the context of rising far-right movements. They discuss the importance of building counter-power to fascism through grassroots movements and the need to make informed decisions in the voting booth.
🌟 Acknowledging the Filmmakers and the Importance of Solidarity
The speaker acknowledges the filmmakers and the importance of their work in raising awareness and fostering solidarity. They express gratitude for the opportunity to be part of the discussion and emphasize the importance of continuing the conversation and activism around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Tubish fat
💡Land recognition
💡Decolonization
💡Goldcorp
💡Neocolonialism
💡Extractivism
💡Indigenous rights
💡Zionism
💡Apartheid
💡Solidarity
💡Trauma
Highlights
Acknowledgment of the Jewish holiday of Tu Bishvat, the new year of trees.
Recognition of the traditional land use by the Musqueam people and the impact of land theft.
Critique of the naming of the theater and cultural center after Goldcorp, a company with a history of environmental harm.
Call for the renaming of the theater as part of the decolonization process.
Introduction of Dr. Gabor Maté, a prominent author and speaker, and his work with patients in Vancouver's downtown east side.
Dr. Maté's background as a Holocaust survivor and his criticism of Israel's policies.
Naomi Klein's expression of gratitude to the organizers and the importance of independent Jewish voices.
Discussion of the difficulty of conversations around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the importance of acknowledging different narratives.
Emphasis on the need to challenge the narrative of colonialism and the Western world's complicity.
Naomi Klein's call for a reckoning with the supremacist narratives that exclude Palestinian trauma.
Dr. Maté's critique of the use of Jewish trauma to justify current Israeli policies and the need to recognize the trauma inflicted on others.
The importance of telling stories that show personal and collective growth, unlearning, and the ability to change.
Simone Zimmerman's reflection on her experience in Israel and the contrast between Israeli and Palestinian realities.
The call to separate Jewish identity from the policies of the Israeli state and to build Jewish identity independently of Zionism.
Naomi Klein's emphasis on the need to challenge the exceptionalism in the Jewish narrative and to fight against fascism collectively.
The discussion on the impact of war trauma on children in Palestine and Gaza, and the potential long-term effects on mental health.
The importance of centering Palestinian culture and history in the dialogue moving forward.
The challenge of organizing around the rise of the right and the disenfranchisement with current political leadership.
Final thoughts on the need for solidarity, the acknowledgment of the filmmakers' work, and the call to support organizations involved in justice for Palestine.
Transcripts
um I'd like to start this evening with
an a recognition a land recognition um
and I'd like to acknowledge that this
evening is actually the beginning of the
Jewish holiday of tubish fat uh so for
those who don't know tubish fat is the
new year of trees and I think it's
appropriate to point out that we now sit
with uh what was traditionally and still
is a space called k calay um I hope that
I'm getting the pronunciation correct
there uh I've only heard it a couple
times and hopefully that changes soon
which is a coish word um Kay roughly
translates to the place of the big
leafed maple trees uh while the Jewish
nearer of trees has long been used by
Israel in its effort to steal
Palestinian Land by planting trees where
villages once stood I hope we can
instead honor this beautiful Holiday by
marking the place where the maples once
stood here on musam sish and slay with
tooth territory where once these folks
uh use this space as their summer area
for fishing and Gathering and for uh
preserving as well um this land was
obviously to many of us uh stolen um
even even though it is unseated
territory and we need to make that
abundantly clear in all of our actions
especially when we're talking about
Palestine so let's just take a moment
for
that you may have also noticed that this
theater and Cultural Center is named
after the company gold
Corp uh yes who's been to a show here
before where it's been mentioned that
gold Corp is a company that does things
that aren't great for the world okay
that's great so I'm going to follow in
that
tradition uh so gold Corp despite it
have being uh having been acquired and
absorbed by another company in
2019 uh has a long Legacy uh that is
dark I'd be remiss if during this land
recognition I didn't also acknowledge
the ongoing harm and
Devastation uh of gold corp's mining
operations on indigenous people
throughout the world gold KP was part of
Canada's neocolonial and extractivist
project uh and still is to this day
their operations have resulted in Mass
displacement and poor health for
communities surrounding their minds
killing of activists rampant
environmental degradation and the
corruption of governments both at home
and abroad
shame it's time for SFU to rename this
place in the spirit of
decolonization um and so now to say a
few more words and to lead us uh to the
film here is Dr Adel isander who is the
head of the center for comparative
Muslim studies uh here at SFU which is a
co-sponsor for tonight's event thank
you thank you so much Armory uh welcome
everyone it's uh it's really inspiring
to see such a large crowd and for those
of you who don't know there's also an
overspill room in Harbor Center that's
also at uh or near capacity so this is
very exciting for an event of the sort
um there's not much I can say beyond the
fact that uh you know all of us are
immensely grateful for um independent
Jewish voices and so many Jewish uh
colleagues friends uh comrades uh who
have stepped up and uh and expressed
solidarity during these very very very
difficult times um those uh colleagues
are people who we know are having to um
you know swim against against the tide
and do things Against the Grain which in
the spirit of the most fundamentally
prophetic and Jewish tradition is
immensely courageous and a testament to
the legacy of so many remarkable Jewish
intellectuals throughout time and
history so I just wanted to you know
acknowledge
that
the while we may have helped book The
Room
all the heavy lifting has been done
largely by independent Jewish voices and
Kylie yes of course from the center for
comparative Muslim studies our unsung
hero who doesn't like her name mentioned
in these contexts but nevertheless Kylie
thank you for doing what you do and so
many volunteers thank you
yes disappears into into the night um
and so many volunteers who are here to
help and support both in this location
and at Harbor centers at Cent
um I do want to say that um a lot of the
conversations that are being had about
this subject matter are difficult and we
have to take us a moment to stop and
recognize how difficult they are and
they're difficult for everyone involved
um and so the objective here is to not
in any way negate anyone's tragedy and
Collective memory of trauma but
nevertheless to also tease open those
wounds to understand how they can be an
opportunity for learning for growth and
for Collective living which is what this
project is all about um I'm no gabber
mate you might be know my cin but I'm no
gabber mate you probably don't want to
hear from me and this film is really
remarkable I've heard a lot about it I
haven't seen it but uh but I want to
leave you with uh the thought that um so
many people wanted and contined to want
to see this film it's being being
screened in
45 there are 45 screenings in 40 cities
or the other way around and
proliferating remarkably there are five
screenings across the city in the coming
days if you like it recommend it to
others please tell people when these
screenings are happening this event is
brought to you not only by independent
Jewish voices but also by numerous um
departments across the University of
course um the uh SFU Van City for
Community engagement I have to look at
the logos to remember but they're all
cut off the uh labor studies program the
school for international studies the
institute for humanities and several
others who have supported so without
further Ado I wish to leave you with
israelism and the subsequent
conversation thank you
[Applause]
all yeah it's now my pleasure to say
that uh who these panelists are uh
unfortunately we're short on time and so
my introductions will be necessarily
incomplete
however the speakers tonight really uh
need very little introduction and many
of us have been fans of theirs for years
so uh in order of appearance uh in the
film uh we have Simone
Zimmerman Simone is an organizer and
strategist based in New York City she is
a co-founder of the anti- aparte
organization if not
now a leading GE group in the ceasefire
movement she is an emerg emerging
thought leader on the Jewish left and
I'll I'll say a really profound person
uh to to witness in her element on
screen so um we'll also welcome now uh
Dr Gabor
[Applause]
mate speaker bestselling author of five
bestselling books he also has received
an outstanding alumnus award from this
very institution and was awarded with
the Order of Canada
um perhaps a lot of hack politicians and
bag men so no big deal let's not applaud
the Order of Canada but the recognition
of Dr matate for 12 years perhaps more
importantly Dr matate worked just a few
walks away in Vancouver's downtown east
side with patients challenged by intense
drug addiction mental illness and HIV
including at the van at Vancouver's
supervised injection site North
America's first of its
[Applause]
kind another important note uh is that
born in Hungary to Jewish parents Dr
matate is a survivor of the Nazi
Holocaust and longtime critic of
Israel's policies that harm Palestinians
he is a member of independent your
voices Naomi
Klein award-winning journalist columnist
International bestselling author of nine
books published in over 35 languages no
logo shock Doctrine this changes
everything no is not enough on fire and
of course
doppelganger
her writing has appeared in leading
Publications around the world and she's
a columnist for the guardian she's an
honorary professor at ruers and of
course uh an associate professor of
geography at UBC and founding
co-director of ubc's Center for climate
justice so thank you for welcoming our
guests and I hate to do this uh but I'm
going to start with you Nami um if
you're able to uh give us your
impressions of the film to start yeah um
hi everyone I feel really grateful to to
be in this space with all of
you
um on these stolen lands talking about
stolen
land and I feel really grateful to be
part of this really beautiful
intergenerational
conversation um you know gabar has been
speaking out um for justice for
Palestinians as a holocaust Survivor
since as long as I can remember had a
huge influence on my um coming out uh um
as a uh as a as a post Zionist
Jew
um and you know these have been such
heartbreaking
months when I think all of us have seen
people who we had so respect for and who
did really great work in different
domains moral work suddenly excusing
genocide suddenly
rationalizing um bombing hospitals
and and
schools
and just retreating into
a kind of a trauma Loop and so I feel
particular gratitude for for um Dr mate
for your huge and unshaking moral
leadership and consistency and it's not
something that we can take for granted
um so I want to recognize that and
Simone I just I feel so grateful to you
you know watching the leadership that
you showed in building
the the moral Jewish youth Le movement
that we have seen in the streets over
these very very dark
months um you know it's
been a you know for me as a Jewish
person the um you know the single source
of Hope um has been seeing if not now
Jewish voice for peace independent
Jewish voices rise immediately you and
go into this breach in the thousands you
know um in the in in the tens of
thousands and so you know that doesn't
come out of nowhere that's the work of
Decades of often unseen work and thank
goodness that you invested in
institution building I feel so much
gratitude you know the end of this film
which I which is so
necessary
[Music]
um to watch you change your mind you you
know this is such a polarized moment and
you know I think particularly for young
people people feel expected to already
be in the place right to already know
everything and so just to model learning
to model unlearning to model uncertainty
that I you know as a as an educator I
can tell you there's nothing more
important right now than than for people
to be able to be on that kind of Journey
with you we need more stories like that
those types of stories where we see
ourselves change right we're all
prisoners of our own stories and none of
our stories are complete right we're all
we all need to be learning and be porous
to one another's stories and tell new
stories together that are more complete
that's the work of life right and we can
get so locked into our own stories so
it's a very very important thing that
this that this the work that this film
is
doing and I also feel you know to um
to Echo one of the one of the voices
from breaking the silence you know one
of the leaders of that remarkable
organization who talked about the shame
I also feel shame a lot of Shame and
have felt a lot of shame in these months
and even being here tonight because we
are in a genocide and there is a way
that Jewish stories are taking up too
much space there is a way in which our
um our talking our traumas our Loops are
not leaving space for Palestinian
Humanity
still
so so I think as we you know tease this
apart we have to hold that tension and
that reality and also think
about how when we do take up space when
we do speak in this moment that it has
to really be a process of Reckoning with
the way the story stories that so many
of us grew up with um were stories that
created a supremacy of trauma that did
not allow us as Jews to recognize to
know the trauma of others specifically
the trauma of
Palestinians
and that is impossible I don't want any
part of it you know and I think that
that is you know I was so struck in the
film just a more quick reaction is just
you know these so-called leaders in the
Jewish Community who entire work is the
work of terrorizing the people they
claim to to to to to represent they want
to keep Jewish people
terrified um that is not leadership that
is the opposite of leadership and there
is a generational shift you're a part of
it I'm so grateful for it and part of
this work now is just to Simply say
nobody elected them much of the the the
you know there there is no
accountability um for this leadership
they do not represent us we refuse to be
led um through mechanisms um of Terror
and I just just one that you know I
think the part of the weight of this
film is knowing that it's from the
before times you know and that final
lyrics know that was not The Darkest
Hour um it it can always get darker and
we are in a much much darker moment
right
now as we know and it always can right
it always can and those images you know
I've never been so chilled by the images
of Charlottesville I was chilled the
first many times I've seen it but now we
know they're on the March again and we
know that Trump is on his way back in
and we know that Israel is making
alliances with Marine Leen in France
with Georgia Malone in Italy with Victor
Orban in Hungary with every fascist
force in this country that does not
represent Jews this is deadly serious we
have to liberate ourselves from this
death machine it's
[Applause]
time well thank you Naomi
um I'm just reading a really good book
it's called doel ganger
by and um when I read books I always um
note down phrases that appeal to me so I
like to frame this initial remarks of
mine somewhere around some phrases out
of Naomi's book she talks about open
Warfare against objective
reality that's what we're facing right
now objective Warfare against objective
reality she talks about that's on page
five on p on page 156 she talks about
the normalization of the dissociation
between words from
reality now yesterday I took part in an
online debate you can find it on YouTube
with a rabbi WP l o
p um who was Rabbi from Los Angeles and
was at Brooks at
Harvard and
um we had to be polite and and you know
civil and I think I kept it together
pretty well but part of me wanted to
grab him by the neck and say what the
[ __ ] are you talking
about because he was denying
reality it's illegal in this country to
deny the Holocaust it's not illegal to
deny the
NBA if there was
a if there was a law against history
denial then most Jewish professors in
this country would be in
jail because they deny
reality and most Jewish spokesmen not
only Jewish by the way all the other um
acolytes and opportunists and
politicians you know the hypocrisy is
incredible
Ukraine we bring in any number of
Ukrainian refugees they limited the
number of Palestinian Gaza and refugees
to
1,000 and uh the the
uh comparison you can't even compare the
devastation between the two
countries you can't even compare it I
want to grab part of me as much as we
engage in civil discourse I'm so enraged
by what I see happening every day let's
go on with Naomi's
book she talks about shock is the gap
that opens up between the event and
existing narratives to explain the event
it's a gap between the event and the
existing
narratives being creatures of narrative
she says humans tend to be very
uncomfortable with
vacuums what's happened right now if
there's any if there's anything to be
gleaned that's positive from the current
horror is that a lot more people are
waking up is that the old narrative are
no longer covering the reality and
there's a shock right now for a lot of
people a lot of people of Goodwill not
even not necessarily Jews or
Palestinians are just so
uncomfortable there such heaviness in
people's hearts and the narrative that
they've been fed not just from the
Jewish Community or the official Jewish
Community but also by the
media by the
governments you know the same media that
brought us to Vietnam War and lied about
it for
years and the same media that brought us
the weapons of mass
destruction now brings us Israel's right
to defend
itself the shock the gap between the
narrative and
reality
and then Hannah or Naomi quotes Hanah
rent the great Jewish
intellectual who says that the
difficulty of making present to my mind
the standpoints of those who are
absent the utter
inability of most people for one second
to put themselves into the mindset of
Palestinians this Rabbi I was talking to
yesterday he said how come after three
generations they're still about
refugees unbelievable meanwhile he talks
about the Jews after 2,000 years being
Exiles I mean the disconnect the
dissociation
is let alone the hypocrisy is utterly
unfathomable Naomi qus quotes Philip
Roth the author as uh saying it's too
ridiculous to take seriously and too
serious to be ridiculous the great
prophet no sorry I said the great
prophet yeah
now when Simone is told or when Naomi is
told or I'm told that us as Jews
speaking out against Israeli I don't
what to call it policy I want to call
it it's not just a policy genocide it's
a whole
ideology it's a whole historical um
aggression it's not just a
policy but when we speak out against it
they're telling us you were promoting
anti-Semitism well that's too ridiculous
to be taken
seriously because I'm saying to these
people what what's between your
ears the whole world is watching
Palestinian children having to have
amputations without anesthetic on
kitchen tables that's the reality and
all the Jewish leaders are supporting it
in the name of the Jewish
people well how does that look to good
to non-jews of Good Will and what do you
think promotes
anti-Semitism
you and the state of the Jews doing this
in our name or Jews actually speaking
out against it it's too Ser
it's it's
um but unfortunately it's also too
serious to be ridiculous
it's it's
not it's a CRI it's criminal is what it
actually is it's criminal these polite
conversations about
Israel
actually what's actually going on is
mass murder and how do you have polite
conversations about mass murder how do
you have it but that's what we have to
do isn't
[Applause]
it Naomi further furthermore quotes
frienders who's one of the founders of
uh Jewish horses for peace Cecily
seski
who in Israel right now Simone was
telling me tonight over dinner and you
read about this in is Israeli press they
don't show any pictures of
Gaza they show pictures of Israeli
soldiers but they don't show what's
happening to the
Palestinians what they show night after
night after night is pictures of October
the 7th and the victims of October the
7th and they were victims they were
genuine
victims it's like trauma pornography is
what it is and CES said
and and and keep talking about Jewish
trauma you know the Holocaust and and
and uh all that Jews have suffered but
we've
never healed that trauma we've
sublimated it we've as noi points out in
their book we've created the opposite
the tough muscular tanned Israeli
soldier who rides rough shod over 12y
old
children the of the hostages or the in
this conversation yesterday the the
so-called neutral moderator you can
watch this on YouTube uh was asking
about the
hostages but what about the thousands of
Palestinian hostages tortured in Israeli
jails I was there I was there last year
I I I worked with some of them
amongst the Israeli prisoners I should
say the Palestinian prisoners exchanged
for the hostages the majority were
between 12 and 17 years of
age and these kids get beaten in in
Israeli jails you know what the crime is
their crime is painting as
anti-occupation
graffiti throwing stones at an Israeli
tank posting anti-occupation messages on
the internet they get arrested for for
it and taken for
jail well as CES seski said it's
retraumatization not remembering there's
a difference we keep wallowing in our
trauma in order not to have to recognize
the trauma that we've
inflicted on another people and we
continue
to and finally uh there says something
that um is not just applicable to Israel
and Jews and and this particular
conflict it's true in
general
because we live in the Western World now
the Western world has got a long history
of
colonialism you know the belgians killed
10 or 12 million
Africans about 120 years
ago in a few years years did you ever
read read about that in your
schools did you know that after after
the second world war the Dutch killed
nearly 300,000
Indonesians in an attempt to hold on to
their colonies anybody ever teach you
that anybody ever teach you that in the
1990s raise your hand if you've heard
about this and this is probably a
progressive audience but have you heard
that in the 1990s 100,000 Guatemalan
indigenous people were massacred by the
army that was trained by the Israeli
Army raise your hand if you knew about
that even in this audience it's a
minority these are the things we never
talk about if you went to school in
Canada raise your hand if anybody ever
told you when you were in school that
here in this province in the 1960s an
indigenous child if they spoke their
native tongue they could have a pin
stuck in their tongue raise your hand if
they told you that in school in in
school did they tell you that very few
so we live in a world where the attitude
and the denial of the
colonialist is
dominant and so naturally Israel's
colonization of Palestine is just taken
for granted it's not a crime it's just
the way it needs to
be and so Naomi says very articulately a
version of the same poisonous
deal all who are relative relatively
fortunate on the part on this partition
Planet are being offered take the gun
accept the cages foress your Escape pod
and your borders perfect your kids
protect your brand ignore the shadow
lands play the
victim the reason the media and the
politicians protect Israel so much cuz
it fits in so well with this privileged
colonialist globalist mindset so we're
not just up
against
the official Jewish leadership the
uh the Jewish trauma Vortex that a lot
of people are still totally caught in
we're also up against a system um that
is much larger than this political issue
and so that in uh challenging this
narrative we also have to challenge The
Narrative and the colonization of our
own minds thank
[Applause]
you well I I said I didn't want to go
first but now I'm like how do I go after
that um I I first wanted to just thank
uh JV and the incredible group of
organizers who just threw together five
screenings here this week and brought us
out and it's
just um I'm going to tell a
story um I've been thinking a lot about
where I was uh at this time last year
because a year ago is the last time that
I was in Palestine in
Israel
and I've I've been thinking a lot about
what what it was like there um a year
ago I went and I sat with an Israeli
friend who's a radical left activist in
Tel Aviv and she took me to her favorite
new coffee shop which is
built
alongside what used to be the train
tracks to D
dcus
and it's now this beautiful
open walkway where people walk with
their strollers and their dogs and we
had a really nice
cappuccino and she told me that uh at
these new democracy protests where
hundreds of thousands of Israelis were
going out and
protesting uh against the dismantling of
the Israeli Supreme
Court uh to protect their democracy of
course um that there was this fight
about if uh activists should be bringing
Palestinian flags of course Very quickly
the Israeli police actually banned it so
this then became a criminal act to bring
a Palestinian flag to one of these
protests
um and you know she showed me there's a
a new train station uh there the tel
aviv's new light rail was about to open
all looked very nice
and then I went and visited um some
friends and colleagues in
rala where they were seeing the news
about these Israeli democracy protests
um but they were a bit consumed by death
every single day in the West Bank last
year the Israeli military shot someone
and while I was there
visiting everyday life was usually shut
down often shut down um the Army there
were certain days where you know there
was a massacre in Nabis uh there was the
pagram in
haara
and these things you know barely make
the
news
20 whatever an hour drive
away
um
and
that I remember thinking how badly I
wish that my friends in rala could sit
in those coffee shops with me in Tel
Aviv and how Stark it was that the
reality of that place is built so that
the people the indigenous people of that
land can not
actually
um participate and benefit
from the society that has been built on
the ruins of their
Villages now that reality is what a
normal day under Israeli apart looked
like uh before October
7th
now here we are in a new reality
it um one that is far more
horrific and
scary and but I've been I've been
thinking a lot about just what it for me
as you just saw in this film I come from
a community where the the reality of
Israeli apartheid
is um you know at
best something that people can
conveniently look away from at worst
it's something that's very actively uh
systematically denied and even in some
parts
celebrated
and since October 7th what has just
become very present for me is as as I've
been you know I it literally manifests
like on my social media feed right it's
like two sides of of my screen
um you know on one side of my Feed My
People in the Jewish community that I
grew up in and Jewish Israelis who have
long been in denial of the reality
around them literally still cannot
understand the reality that they see
that that they are now living through
history started for them on October 7th
they were living in a normal country
before October 7th and now that sense of
safety and normaly is completely
shattered
um
and and as gor said
um there are so many people who are
actually having a moment of like hold on
a second something's not right here um
those of us on social media it's almost
impossible to avoid the just horrific
images coming out of Gaza if you know
even one person who's you know putting
it on your feed um breaking breaking
into your reality
[Music]
um I guess what I want to say to all of
you who came out to see this film and
those of you maybe I hope in the
audience there are people who maybe are
having these conversations for the first
time are having these conversations in
your communities maybe have people in
your life who
are yeah asking hard questions for the
first time as they're horrified and
heartbroken and
and what I I I don't feel that my story
is I don't think that I'm special I
think that this film is about telling
the story
of something first of all that it has
hap is a is a story that uh thousands of
tens hundreds of thousands of Jews
around the world have undergone I'm
feeling Beyond honored to be sitting on
a stage with two people who underwent
that process when it was much harder
than it was for
me and to be in that
lineage
and yeah for me as also as you said this
is not necessarily something that is a
uniquely Jewish story there's there's a
big Spotlight on them on Jews right now
to be asking hard questions about the
um the oppression that we are part of of
course Jews are not the the only ones
who are complicit in horrible systems of
Oppression and so I also hope that
there's there's a way that people
watching this film can can see in it a
very Universal message of what does it
mean to ask hard questions to allow
yourself to be transformed by heartbreak
and by grief at witnessing such
unspeakable oppression and violence and
and to take this the the very basic step
of like allowing yourself to be
shattered and reconstituted by by
stepping towards um a different vision
of of
Truth so thank you to all of our
panelists that was moving and profound
and I'm sure it will stay with you as
it's going to stay with me for weeks uh
we're going to move into the Q&A session
but uh you know in a cheeky move I might
ask the first question uh on behalf of
independent Jewish voices and then we'll
open it up to the floor I think we're
going to take two other questions after
I ask mine and then uh we'll go to the
panelists uh respond that sound okay
okay so um obviously this film is mostly
centered around the United States and
we're in a different nation state right
now regardless of what we might think of
that nation state uh in 2002 uh Pro
Palestine students successfully shut
down a talk by Benjamin Netanyahu at
conc CIO University and my son was a
part of that there's
[Applause]
a the there's a there's a film you can
watch um an nfb film called
discordia about that particular incident
yeah so um this was a huge game Cher and
a lot of Jews in this country from The
Establishment were completely upended by
the fact that this could happen and so
Heather ricean and Jerry Schwarz who we
might know the owners and Founders CEOs
of Indigo books can I get a
shame uh so they created what they
called the Israel emergency cabinet
which their task was to transform
Canadian Jewish institutions into
pro-israel advocacy
organizations uh and in a in a way that
was described by many Jews as a coup
within the Jewish Community the Israel
emergency cabinet uh managed to repl
place the 90-year-old Canadian Jewish
Congress in
2011 with their own organization called
the center for Israel and Jewish Affairs
which still exist to this day can I get
a shame sh my question for the panelists
tonight how do we as Jews separate
Israel from Jewish
Affairs well I'm Jewish and I used to
have affairs but I'm not
sorry here all night
um well it's that's not for us to answer
the question is why the hell are they
confused in the first place you know um
when I
uh there's this place called the Jewish
Community Center but I don't call I I go
swimming there you know and
uh two months ago I was just parking my
bicycle to go you know outside and this
woman comes up to me and says are you
and I said yes I am and uh she said well
what are you doing in the Jewish
Community Center I'm swimming well do
you know that a lot of people are
uncomfortable in fact they hate your
guts you know I said I'm sorry to hear
that no you're not when you go when you
when you go in the Jewish Community
Center you see Israeli
Flags so and many years ago there used
to be an organization called um juice
for just peace it was really a huge
organization of about 10 people here in
Vancouver and we had some events now one
of the events that we held was we
invited many of you have seen videos by
mik pelled have you mik ped is wrote a
book called The General's son uh his
father matatu mati pad was a member of
the Israeli general staff in
1967 and his mother's n pad his sister I
think was called in a killed in a
terrorist suicide
[Music]
bomb and moiko is a powerful um speaker
on behalf of Palestinian rights and he's
got very clear on no meaning of Zionism
he comes from really um high class
Zionist stalk you might say now his
father after he retired from the
military started this is
before Israel spoke to the um
PLO
because it's Shamir who was a terrorists
who murdered hundreds of Arabs and man
and bean another terrorist another prime
minister of Israel also responsible for
many many children and women being
killed in 1948 they said we don't
negotiate with
terrorists by the way there was a
wonderful cartoon uh the other day Joe
Biden says we don't negotiate with
terrorists we fund
them in any case Matti pet came out for
negotiating with the Palestinians the
Jewish Community Center would not allow
him to speak
there because it threatens Israel's
security the Jewish Community Center in
Vancouver knew much better how to
protect Israel's security than an
Israeli
General so this conflation between
jewishness and
Zionism we don't have to separate it
it's just reality the two have nothing
to do with each other we just need to
build our own Jews have uh sorry I said
we need to build our own swimming pools
yeah they're the ones who should explain
why they confuse the
two you know there were there were Jews
all
along since the beginning of the Zionist
movement who opposed
Zionism one of my great hero
unfortunately many of them were murdered
by the Nazi
Holocaust they
were there was um I'll finish talking in
a moment there was a one of my heroes is
a man called or was is a man called
meric Adelman meric Adelman was the
second in command of the Warsaw Ghetto
Uprising now you may not know this but
the PLO resistance actually idolized the
fighters of the Warsaw
Ghetto and Mar
Adelman was the only surviving leader of
the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising he escaped
under the sewers and joined the Polish
resistance against the Nazis and after
the war he became a
cardiologist and was always a very
principled um stand for justice
he stood against the Communist
government's suppression of the labor
movement and he was a lifelong supporter
of Palestinian resistance and rights he
criticized them for the anti- civilian
terrorism but he actually said that they
are the ghetto fighters of
today so we're not the ones who should
say how do we separate the two they
should explain why the two should be
conflated that's my point of view
[Applause]
so I you listening to
to
to this resurfacing of of other ways of
relating to to Judaism I think this is
going on in many quarters and this is
one of the things that I find most
hopeful about this generational shift
that's going on is that you know when I
got involved in um in in Palestinian
solidarity activism in the 90s during
you know the first intifada um it was it
was like those groups of 10 people it
was and it was it was Jews against the
occupation then it was Jews against
aarid but it was it was only an
oppositional it was only oppositional
and I think that we have to continue to
oppose
genocide but we also have a right to be
Jewish in our own ways and that is the
biggest thing that I see shifting in
these new um this intergenerational
shift is that it's it's not apologetic
it's not just
oppositional it's confident in its
identity and part of the confidence
comes from
relinking with the many ways of being
Jewish that predates the creation of the
state of Israel you know one of the
things that I
explore in in in in doppelganger which
Gabor was very kindly um exciting you
know it has to do with the this
exploration of the many different ways
of being Jewish and the way Zionism kind
of ended the conversation but
specifically the way the Holocaust ended
the conversation because as Gabor is
saying many of the people who who
believed in Liberation through a
socialist Utopia um who or the labor
Bond who believed in protecting Jewish
culture within a workingclass movement
they were destroyed in the in the
Holocaust or in in Stalin's camps um and
so it was Zionism won by default it's
not like it won the argument and people
were like yeah that is that that that's
that's actually how to keep Jews safe
it's that the whole field of debate was
wiped out by by different kinds of
genocide and so it was in response to
the horrors of the Nazi
Holocaust that political zionists were
able to claim in this very pessimistic
way um that I think is you know
rightfully understood as a kind of judeo
pessimism that the only thing you can do
in the face of Jew hatred which is
presented as totally outside of history
and primordial and just a pure evil
force that you can't understand in
connection to any other force is just
put a gun to its head and force it into
submission right and build the wall WS
that we saw in the film you know so
struck by Simone describing going to
Bethlehem just surrounded by walls and
what what the Israeli government is now
is now trying to do is exponentially
increasing precisely the model that
failed on October the 7th right many
more walls a buffer zone in Gaza um you
know just just a an like it's doubling
down is not enough just an exponential
increase of the idea of a fortress state
that has completely failed and will not
make anyone safe but what I want to come
down come back to is this
um this pessimistic idea that the
Holocaust proves that that is the only
way to keep Jews
safe I think it's I think it is an
answer to the wrong
question the real question is how did
the Nazis rise in the first place yeah
because once fascism gets its hooks in
and it's making some real progress
nobody's safe nobody is
safe once that force is Unleashed nobody
is safe so we have to figure out how we
fight them and we fight them together
right and every history of far right
Victory is also a history of left-wing
and Progressive splintering and Division
and successful pitting of working
classes against one another often using
race and ethnicity so you know Gabor was
talking about the dismemberment and the
retraumatization so what would it mean
to remember right to put ourselves back
together and I don't think we do it just
as Jews I think we do it in solidarity
with everybody who is othered and we
stop exceptional liing our story right
know when when when Simone was talking I
was just remembering this remarkable
quote and I'll just share this from my
friend Molly Krab Apple who's been who's
writing a book about the labor Bond she
just recently translated this quote from
Hinrich ER she taught herself Yiddish to
write this book who was leader of the
Bund in Poland in
1933 and he said one of our greatest
sins in the eyes of the Jewish Bourgeois
has been that in the course of the 35
years of our existence as a party we
have not ceased to defend the simple
idea that we Jews are not chosen people
neither in the positive nor in the
negative sense but a people just like
any other nation and that even through
our history and our social economic
circumstances of our lives are unique
the same rules apply to us that regulate
the lives of all other nations in the
world I think that might be how we get
free thank you um yeah Simone did you
want to make a comment or should we go
to questions we can go to questions okay
sorry to intervene there um yeah so we I
think have two
people yeah uh who are going to to help
with moderation I don't know if you want
to since you have both have mics just
say your names and then uh yeah we'll
take the questions I'm Sasha and I'm Ria
but um I think we already have our first
question ready
um okay sounds
good hello my name is Omar I'm here with
my younger brother we are
both uh Mexican and
Palestinian my grandfather was born in
Gaza in the
1920s that is the only preface I'll I'll
give um I'd like to
say Gabor you're a
champion uh you are very a humble man
but I generally think you're a champion
um and behind uh a champion there's
always a very strong woman carrying that
champion so I would like to thank you
and your
wife I would personally like to extend
the thank you to your daughter Hannah to
Aaron and Daniel for their great work
and you are my hero gab to be honest and
I've been reading so many of your books
and you have pursued I have pursued
um such a wonderful path towards
enlightening myself
with uh a lot of your wisdom uh I would
my main question I'll get to the I'll
get to it
um is how would you connect your your
previous statement or
rather a phrase that you were told that
Palestinian children do not experience
PTSD because the trauma is never
posted and connecting that to the inter
generational trauma that has been
experienced on this indigenous
land thank
[Applause]
you in
2005 there was this uh article in the
world Journal of
Psychiatry about war trauma around the
world and the impact of War trauma on
children and um
the highest percentages of
trauma were in Gaza and
Palestine children having
nightmares children weding their
beds children acting
aggressively children having behavior
issues that was in
2005
and since then there's been a series of
massacres of Palestinians especially in
Gaza but of course ongoing in the West
Bank as
well the one of the founders of Hamas
who was subsequently assassinated by the
Israelis was a
pediatrician who was 8 years old in
1956 when he watched his uncle being
killed during a mass execution of
Palestinian boys and men by the Israeli
Army
[Music]
unarmed and he said they planted hatred
in my
heart since 2005 it's only got a lot
worse and I don't have to tell you
what's going on right
now now
the the young men who streamed into
Israel and by the
way humam must today or yesterday give
an explanation of why they did what they
did without
justifying the killings of
civilians but their rationale wasn't to
go out there and kill a whole lot of
Jews their intention was to seize
hostages to to um exchange for their
prisoners I don't say they had the right
to to to seize
civilians to strike a blow against the
Israeli Army which they did
brilliantly and to wake the world up
which has been ignoring their plight for
all these
decades and Saud Arabia was about to
sign a sweetheart deal with Israel that
once more bypassed the
Palestinians so I'd say as political
aims there was very legitimate
aims but the the young men who streamed
into Israel that day who were they they
were those traumatized children grown
up are we surprised that some of them
might have committed some
crimes not to justify anything but if we
want to understand something now what do
we expect to happen in this
generation that's witnessing there's
30,000 18 thou the last time I saw the
figures there was something like 18,000
or 20,000 orphans in
Gaza and there and when you look at that
study in
2005 it had to do with watching their
parents being beaten in the hum
ated themselves being
beaten bombings killings
insecurity well this is happening on an
exponential scale right
now what can do what do we have to look
forward to in terms of
traumatization it's going to be
horrendous
and
traumatized
people are more likely
to and especially if they trauma I mean
just for a
moment imagine what Jews would be
feeling if the whole world denies the
Holocaust who said this never
happened or if it did happen it was your
own damn fault
which is pretty much what the official
media you know singing the Israeli
chorus is telling the
Palestinians now Jews still haven't
healed the trauma of the Holocaust you
see that coming up in their response to
what's happening in
Palestine you know more Jews have been
killed in one day than every anytime
since the Holocaust as if those people
were killed because they were Jewish as
somebody said if they had been Elephants
or dinosaurs or Dutch or English but
doing what the Israelites did to the
Palestinians they would have been killed
nothing to do with being Jewish but in
the traumatized mind those distinctions
don't exist that the past completely
defines the
present what kind of present are these
Palestinian kids are going to have
Israel knows that very very well and
that's why they're think think of
getting rid of all of them from Gaza if
they could they would if they don't it's
only because the world won't let
them 52% of Israelis right now believe
that Gaza should be settled by Jews
again and those 21 Israeli soldiers that
died dead yesterday now me mentioned it
what Israel is doing now is building a
buffer zone between Gaza and Israel and
they were what they're doing is
demolishing a building yesterday hasn't
if they if they haven't bombed enough
buildings into
Oblivion yesterday they were demolishing
a building and some Hamas Fighters shot
at them and they were blown up by their
own
explosives so Israel know this very well
so Israel may think it can get away by
building a buffer zone by expelling the
Palestinians but those Palestinians that
that survive they'll be severely
traumatized
and for reasons we can understand
possibly very much driven towards hatred
again and my own
surprise and maybe Naomi as well and and
and and um
um what's your name Simone
sorry I'm getting old uh
Simons is
not that some Palestinians would hate us
but how many of them don't hate us at
all that's the big surprise but the
future doesn't look good for mental
health for physical health or for
politics that's how I see
it uh Simone or
now
um you both are going to wait till next
okay um could we actually do two
questions and then we'll we'll get some
responses just uh get more
people hi thank you for the talk and
thank you for the movie uh I guess my
question kind of centers around the
dialogues we have moving forward a lot
of the conflict leading up to now and
especially in the past 100 and so days
has been framed in the negative sense
we're uh critiquing the Israeli
government we're critiquing the iof
moving forward whether it's to heal or
to educate ourselves how ort it is it to
paint to look at the positive sense in
the way the movie did and kind of Center
it around the Palestinian people one of
the lines that really is uh I point in
for the movie was the land without a
people without a land for a land for a
land without a people and how when you
kind of talk about the culture talk
about the history of the Palestinian
people you show that before 1948 it was
rich and vibrant so in that sense moving
forward talking about how we can whether
it's educating ourselves people
educating others how important is it to
Center the Palestinian people and
culture in that dialogue okay and second
question
um I um hate to pose a what is to be
done in this sort of situation but can
we can we actually get a woman or
someone who's not male identified I'm
not sure what your identity is no sure
fair enough I I'll happily pass the mic
on I I just want to you know we only
have so many questions um my
apologies um sorry I feel like I just
stole the mic from someone but um so
this is a bit of a weird question for me
because I've always considered myself to
be an anarchist but it's about electoral
politics and so it was kind of directed
at Naomi and Simone um we're facing an
election cycle where in Canada we're
looking at Pierre PV who is essentially
Donald Trump and in the US of course
you're looking at Donald Trump how do we
organize right now when so many of us
are completely disenfranchised with um
the liberal government and with um Biden
in the US over their stance on Israel
Palestine and when the option
potentially plunges us into the white
supremacy that gave rise to the current
conflict so how do we organize right now
around um the rise of the right
converging in this in in this time
[Applause]
thanks will start
off um yeah I'll start um I wanted to
answer the the the first question first
but there's something that kind of
connects uh both of them for me which is
um
I okay I'm going to tell a little story
about the us but it's relevant um so we
just had I'm sure many of you have seen
this
um ridiculous uh theater in Congress
where the heads of the three Elite
universities were uh brought in for
questioning by a white supremacist uh
Senator and um
the woman uh she's a republican uh I
actually don't know if she's a
congresswoman or a senator but whatever
she opened up the hearing by um talking
about um she literally said she she went
after uh Senator Chuck Schumer who had
just spoken out against anti-Semitism
and she um she chastised him for not
being very explicit about what the
source of anti-Semitism
was the
University she literally said that and
she then proceeded to list examples of
courses that teach
anti-Semitism uh I think at Harvard or
at a the list of schools that she was
going after and um they were literally
just classes about uh racism and
colonialism like literally nothing to do
with Jews nothing to do with Israel
Palestine um and it's it's so Stark that
like how
explicitly um these movements are
actually H how clear they are about the
fact that they're using anti-Semitism
and they're using Jews as part of this
wider authoritarian effort to just
dismantle public universities and
private universities the teaching of any
critical history and um and you know
that as as a as a part of this broader
effort to you know attack um all of our
safety and well-being and histories and
communities so that's I mean so I think
for me there's
there's obvious to to answer the first
question I mean it feels essential to me
um you know part of what is very
meaningful to me about this film is that
it's also a tool it's both of it's it's
doing two things at once right it's like
giving people a blueprint for unlearning
and for crossing a bridge
um towards uh a deeper understanding and
critical engagement with reality and
then at the same time it's also about
giving voice to to these people who and
their stories and their histories and
their their lived experiences and and
also trying to put that in the center at
the same time so I feel like doing both
of those things at the same time always
um
feels really essential and and I think
it's also kind of part of
like what it means to try to imagine
something more hopeful for the future is
that it's through telling these
histories through
[Music]
um history art writing culture that
there is something for us to hold on to
that gives us a blueprint for what for
what we want so I'll I'll let you
actually say something about the
Electoral part of
it because I I don't know about that
part
yeah I mean what when I I think there's
there is a need for a lot of different
kinds of stories and I think that
this um this I think the beauty of this
film In This Moment is that is that I
think a lot of people are looking for a
kind of off-ramp from this ideology that
is that that is so um treacherous a um
and and and violent and it's a story
it's a story you know and that that's
the the strength of the film is that it
it shows what it's like to grow up
inside the story and it's shows what
it's like to change the story and and
like I said at the start I think that
that that
is um we need examples of that we need
examples of seeing people change their
mind but then what the next story is
that's a story that that of course is
not just you know diaspora Jews to tell
um and there are many there there's the
story that we're going to tell here
there's the story that they're going to
tell there from The River To The Sea um
I think that we can be clear about
standing for principles um
and you know one thing I found myself
thinking about is you know coming back
to the the first question about trauma I
mean that that that is that is going to
reverberate through the generations it
doesn't get magicked away you know there
isn't a fix there isn't a solution um
but what we do know is that there are
examples of tremendous horrror
producing
change
and the from the fires of of the
Holocaust there were there was a fork in
the road in that moment right there was
the never again for anyone right there
was the horror of we the world let this
happened and out of that horror was born
the entire architecture of international
humanitarian law that Israel is
violating so systematically before our
eyes including the 1948 Geneva
Convention
1948 the same year as the state of
Israel was created by the same
institution that passed the universal
declaration for human rights in 1948
also so all of these
key these key commitments except there
was an asterisk next to them they said
except for we're just going to create
this one ethnostate over here um because
we're going to exceptional eyesee this
particular form of hatred and we're
going to pass the mantle of whiteness to
the Jews who get to do settler
colonialism as a twisted form of
reparations for genocide um so no you
actually have to choose it turns out you
have to go all in you have to go all in
for the universal principles of equality
and justice and Liberation and we have
one more day folks until we know what
the verdict is in the hke tomorrow is
the last day before we
know whether South Africa's
extraordinary case extraordinary for all
the historical reasons of thinking about
the fact that it was South Africa
bringing the case um itself a product of
an incredible Liberation movement
um
and I don't know what's going to happen
Friday morning when we wake up the
decision will already be
made but it's going to be real I know
it's going to be a really important day
for all of us to decide what principles
we want to govern our
relationships uh we don't have that much
control over how our relationships are
going to be cont are going to what's
going to happen there but we have some
control over how we're going to behave
here how we're going to treat each other
here and it's a dialect IC right the the
argument for Zionism is that Jews can't
be safe here they need the Fortress to
dat so if we have uh left movements that
don't take anti-Semitism seriously if we
aren't fighting anti-Semitism here and
we're sort of off that we're offloading
it to the Sia and saying okay this is
the one ISM we don't have to care about
that's a gift to them because actually
it feeds Zionism we have to have a model
where everybody is safe right we have to
build those bridges between our
Liberation movements at least here and
that's part of how we fight the farri
you know I this is the hardest election
of my lifetime in order to to provide
this advice I will not sit here and say
it doesn't matter it can always get
worse I'm sorry that's part of the moral
of the story okay I'm going to quote my
late friend Howard Zin um who in another
tough election when both the Democrats
and the Republicans supported a horrific
War in Iraq and Afghanistan after
9/11 he
said think about it for the 2 minutes
you're in the voting booth and the rest
of the time build the movements that we
need um don't get too hung up about it
it's probably going to be obvious when
it comes down to it that's that decision
in the voting booth is not the work of
building the counterpower to Fascism
that's what we have to do and then we're
all going to have to make our decisions
in the voting booth and let it take the
two that it takes to vote but let's not
confuse that for the politics that we
need to build and I do
yeah
okay
so I think on that note uh before we all
get kicked out of here uh we got to end
it um and uh yeah I have a couple words
but yeah did you want to speak for a
second can we get a giant round of
Applause for everyone
[Applause]
here all right I'm going to take a photo
of the
[Applause]
standing the reason the reason I'm
taking a photo of the standing Applause
is because those who are not with us uh
today are the remarkable filmmakers that
made the story possible so I just wanted
us to acknowledge the incredible work of
Aaron axelman who is just a force of
nature in every possible way who will be
here at some of the subsequent hearings
sorry
hearings Everything feels like a
tribunal um and also uh Sam um ersson
ersson am I butchering his name uh
Daniel chelen Nadia saah and so many
others who are responsible of this film
this is a 7year production it took a
very very very long time what you're
seeing is a very abbreviated and yet
extremely impactful provocative and
Powerful distillation of a remarkable
life's work for every single member of
this community um as a non-jew I hereby
say that I am humbled to be in your
presence to be in solidarity with you I
know that these are extremely difficult
times as they are for Palestinians but
also for Jews and to be able to say what
you say today tomorrow the coming months
and the years in the future it's
landmark and for many of us who are here
listening to a lot of this stuff for the
first time these SE are eye openening
moments of rapture and from moments of
rapture comes growth and I thank you for
contributing to not only sewing the
seeds but also watering the soil thank
you all for coming thank you for being
here and uh just to take Naomi's words
seriously let's uh list a few of the
organizations that youall can get
involved with if you aren't already
there is of course the Palestinian youth
movement who are leading us right now in
so many
ways there's samyun doing really great
work in this
city I've really also got a plug uh
independent Jewish voices which we do
have a table outside and then we're
there with uh students for justice in
Palestine so make sure to talk with them
as well uh and uh yeah I don't know if
there's any final words from you folks
before we all get turfed but but just
one word I haven't acknowledged um
Simone
um my own Awakening happened a few years
before being a few years older than she
is in
1967 when up to that point I was sort of
still in the Zionist um Camp although I
was getting a foot out of it and then
the Vietnam War happened which woke my
eyes up to the reality of
this
Society but when the war broke out I
still sort of sighted with poor Israel
surrounded by all these enemies and all
this
stuff then I began to notice something
that the same press that cheered on and
lied about through the teeth every day
about the mass murder of Vietnamese by
the Americans was so supportive of
Israel and I thought what's going on
here so then I did the research about
that War and who started it and what led
up to it and what was the background
that was my Awakening so in October of
67 I wrote an article for the student
newspaper at UBC about the war who
started it and that Israel occupied
territories and I implied that they're
never going to give it
back I'm still waiting to be wrong on
that one
but there weren't too many I'm not
trying to paint myself as a Pioneer here
because long before I was born there was
Jewish voices opposing Zionism but I was
in a
tradition but it was pretty isolating
and
isolated and to see now this whole
movement that you're a part of and that
your movie represents
and
the impact that you're
having and that there's a whole new
generation now
that one could imagine would someday
happen but see it actually taking place
The
Awakening that's
happening it's still in the early stages
but it's so much more advanced so I just
want
to extend to you my deep appreciation
for your own Awakening and for your
courage and standing by it and I know
it's cost
you it costs all of us but even today it
cost you so here you are with this film
and touring throughout North America and
I don't even know that when you made the
film you could even imagine the horrors
that are taking place right now but what
a there's no better time for your
message to
be put in front of the public is right
now so really my deep acknowledgement to
you
Simone thank
[Applause]
you okay and uh with that uh we'll just
have another round of applause for our
guests here and good night
ofuse
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