Oliver Stone Pushes Back Against Fears Over Nuclear Power

Summary

In the podcast 'The Joe Rogan Experience', the discussion delves into the misconceptions surrounding nuclear power. The conversation highlights the safety of nuclear energy compared to other sources, using the analogy of driving cars versus flying planes. It addresses the overblown fears post-Three Mile Island and the anti-nuclear movement's impact. The documentary 'Nuclear Now' is mentioned, which aims to educate and challenge the negative stereotypes associated with nuclear power, emphasizing its potential as a clean and abundant energy source. The discussion also touches on the advancements in nuclear technology, the environmental benefits over fossil fuels, and the relatively minimal and manageable waste it produces.

Takeaways

• 🚗 The analogy of driving a car being dangerous yet not scary, and flying being scary yet safer, is used to illustrate the public's misconception about nuclear power.
• 📊 The documentary 'Nuclear Now' presents data showing that coal causes many more deaths annually compared to nuclear power, which has a surprisingly low death toll.
• 🎬 The anti-nuclear movement post-Three Mile Island is discussed, highlighting how celebrities and media contributed to a fear-driven narrative without fully understanding the facts.
• 🌏 Nuclear energy is described as a 'miracle' that is abundant in the Earth's resources, such as uranium, and is a product of human ingenuity and scientific discovery.
• 💥 The script discusses the historical development of nuclear energy, its association with World War II, and the subsequent misunderstandings that arose from its military applications.
• 🎭 Hollywood and media are criticized for perpetuating negative stereotypes of nuclear energy through films and comic books, which have contributed to public fear.
• 🏭 The discussion of the Three Mile Island incident emphasizes that while a reactor meltdown occurred, no one was harmed due to effective containment structures.
• 🌊 The Fukushima disaster is analyzed, revealing that no deaths were caused by radiation, contrary to popular belief, and that the event was more a result of natural disasters and outdated infrastructure.
• ⚡ The script points out that radiation is a natural part of our environment and that the fear of radiation is often exaggerated, with examples like the radiation from a banana being harmless.
• 🌿 The conversation emphasizes the need for nuclear power as a clean, reliable energy source, especially in the face of climate change and the negative health impacts of fossil fuels.

Q & A

What is the analogy made in the documentary about the perception of danger between nuclear power and other forms of transportation?

The analogy compares driving a car, which is not scary but dangerous, to flying in a plane, which feels scary but is much safer. This is used to illustrate how nuclear power is perceived as scary but is statistically much safer than other energy sources like coal.

How does the documentary address the anti-nuclear movement that followed the Three Mile Island incident?

The documentary discusses the anti-nuclear movement that arose after the Three Mile Island incident, highlighting how it was fueled by celebrities and media, and how it contributed to a widespread fear of nuclear power without considering the actual risks and benefits.

What misconceptions about nuclear power does the documentary aim to correct?

The documentary aims to correct misconceptions such as associating nuclear power with nuclear bombs, the belief that nuclear energy plants are inherently dangerous, and the idea that nuclear waste is an unsolvable problem.

How does the documentary portray the development of nuclear energy during World War II?

The documentary explains that nuclear energy was developed during World War II, emphasizing that the urgency of the war led to the creation of the atomic bomb, which was a separate application from peaceful nuclear energy generation.

What is the documentary's stance on the safety of nuclear power plants, especially in light of incidents like Chernobyl and Fukushima?

The documentary argues that nuclear power plants are generally safe, and that incidents like Chernobyl and Fukushima were exceptions caused by specific circumstances and design flaws. It also points out that no deaths were directly caused by radiation in the Fukushima incident.

How does the documentary compare the risks of nuclear power to those of other energy sources, such as coal?

The documentary highlights that coal power results in a significant number of deaths and health issues due to pollution, contrasting this with the relatively low number of deaths associated with nuclear power.

What role does the documentary suggest that nuclear power could play in addressing climate change?

The documentary suggests that nuclear power is a crucial part of the solution to climate change due to its ability to provide large amounts of reliable, low-carbon energy without the need for backup or energy storage.

How does the documentary discuss the issue of nuclear waste and its potential impact on the environment?

The documentary addresses the issue of nuclear waste by explaining that the volume is much smaller than commonly believed and that modern cask storage methods are safe and effective for long-term containment.

What is the documentary's view on the current state of nuclear energy development in the United States compared to other countries like China and Russia?

The documentary points out that while the United States was once a leader in nuclear energy, countries like China and Russia are now investing heavily in new nuclear technology, potentially leaving the U.S. behind in this field.

How does the documentary handle the topic of radiation and its effects on human health?

The documentary discusses the topic of radiation by debunking common myths and emphasizing that low levels of radiation are a natural part of the environment and human life, and that the risks associated with nuclear power are minimal compared to other energy sources.

Outlines

00:00

📚 Nuclear Power Misconceptions

The paragraph discusses the documentary 'Nuclear Now' which aims to challenge common misconceptions about nuclear power. It contrasts public fear of nuclear power with the actual safety record, using the analogy of driving cars versus flying planes to illustrate perceived versus actual danger. The documentary covers historical events like Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima, emphasizing that while accidents happened, the anti-nuclear movement's reaction was exaggerated. It also touches on how nuclear energy is a gift from the Earth, with potential for misuse similar to other natural resources. The speaker reflects on their own past beliefs and the importance of education to understand nuclear power's true benefits and risks.

05:02

🌏 Nuclear Energy Advancements

This section of the script talks about the evolution and improvement of nuclear reactors over the past 60 to 70 years. Despite their age, these reactors are still operational, indicating the durability of nuclear technology. The conversation highlights the potential for modern reactors to prevent disasters like Fukushima if built with current knowledge. It also addresses the persistent fear and negative perception of nuclear energy, contrasting it with the actual safety record and the environmental benefits compared to coal. The discussion points out that radiation is a natural part of our environment and that the nuclear industry has made significant strides in safety and technology, yet public opinion remains largely uninformed and biased.

10:04

🔋 The Reality of Nuclear Waste

The final paragraph focuses on the reality of nuclear waste and the benefits of nuclear power as a clean energy source. It dispels myths about the volume of waste produced by nuclear reactors, stating that the total waste from U.S. reactors could fit in a single Walmart. The conversation emphasizes that nuclear waste is safely stored in concrete and steel casks, which are effective at containing radioactivity. It also points out that nuclear energy does not require backup power or energy storage like other renewables, making it a reliable and clean source of energy. The paragraph concludes by comparing the minimal harm caused by nuclear waste to the significant environmental and health impacts of fossil fuels, particularly coal.

Keywords

💡Nuclear Power

Nuclear power is a low-carbon, high-density energy source that generates electricity through nuclear reactions. In the video, it is discussed as a safer and more efficient alternative to fossil fuels, despite common misconceptions. The script points out that while nuclear power may seem scary due to historical incidents like Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima, the actual number of deaths and harm caused by nuclear power is significantly lower compared to coal, which is a major source of air pollution and related deaths.

💡Three Mile Island

Three Mile Island is a reference to the partial nuclear meltdown that occurred in 1979 at a nuclear power plant in Pennsylvania, USA. The incident is often cited as a symbol of nuclear power's dangers. However, the transcript notes that despite the meltdown, no one was hurt due to the effectiveness of the containment structure, challenging the perception of nuclear power as being inherently unsafe.

💡Chernobyl

Chernobyl refers to the catastrophic nuclear accident in 1986 at the No. 4 reactor in Pripyat, Ukraine, which was then part of the Soviet Union. The script discusses how the disaster was sensationalized in the media and popular culture, leading to a widespread fear of nuclear power. However, the documentary mentioned in the transcript aims to provide a more balanced view by consulting with scientists and understanding the actual events and their aftermath.

💡Fukushima

Fukushima is associated with the nuclear disaster that occurred in 2011 at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant in Japan, following a massive earthquake and tsunami. The transcript highlights that despite the significant media coverage, no deaths were attributed to radiation exposure from the incident, which contrasts with the common perception of nuclear accidents as being deadly.

💡Anti-Nuclear Movement

The anti-nuclear movement represents a social and political force that opposes the use of nuclear power and advocates for alternative energy sources. The script mentions how this movement gained momentum after incidents like Three Mile Island, with celebrities and public figures advocating against nuclear power. The discussion in the video suggests that such movements can sometimes be based on misinformation or an overreaction to rare but high-profile incidents.

💡Nuclear Energy vs. Nuclear Bomb

This concept clarifies the difference between nuclear energy, which is used for peaceful purposes like electricity generation, and nuclear bombs, which are weapons of mass destruction. The script emphasizes that the processes and materials involved in these two applications are distinct, and the fear associated with nuclear weapons is often mistakenly transferred to nuclear energy.

💡Radiation

Radiation refers to the emission of energy as electromagnetic waves or as moving subatomic particles. In the context of the video, radiation is a term often associated with danger due to its role in nuclear accidents and weapons. However, the script points out that radiation is a natural part of the environment and even certain everyday activities, like eating a banana, which contains a small amount of radioactive potassium.

💡Prometheus

Prometheus is a figure from Greek mythology who stole fire from the gods and gave it to humans, an act that can be seen as a metaphor for the harnessing of nuclear energy. The script uses this reference to discuss how nuclear power, like fire, is a powerful force that can be misused but also offers great benefits when used responsibly.

💡China Syndrome

The 'China Syndrome' is a term that refers to a hypothetical scenario where a nuclear reactor's core could melt through its containment vessel and into the earth, potentially reaching the other side of the planet, hence 'China'. The script mentions a film with this title, which, like other media, may have contributed to the alarmist perception of nuclear power. The discussion in the video aims to provide a more factual understanding of nuclear safety.

💡Renewables

Renewables refer to energy sources that are naturally replenished on a human timescale, such as solar, wind, and hydroelectric power. The script acknowledges the importance of renewables but also points out their limitations, such as the need for backup power sources like natural gas when the sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing, and the challenges of energy storage.

💡Nuclear Waste

Nuclear waste refers to the byproducts of nuclear reactions, which can be radioactive and require careful handling and storage. The transcript discusses the misconceptions around nuclear waste, noting that the volume of waste produced by nuclear power is relatively small and manageable, and that it can be stored safely in casks designed to contain radioactivity for long periods.

Highlights

The documentary discusses the misconceptions about nuclear power, comparing it to driving a car which is dangerous but not scary, and flying which is scary but safer.

The documentary presents data showing the number of deaths from coal power compared to nuclear power, highlighting the relative safety of nuclear energy.

The anti-nuclear movement post-Three Mile Island is criticized for being based on fear rather than facts.

The documentary aims to educate viewers about the true nature of nuclear power, dispelling myths and misinformation.

Nuclear energy is described as a 'miracle' that has been misunderstood and misused, similar to the myth of Prometheus.

The development of nuclear energy during World War II led to its association with bombs and horror, rather than its peaceful applications.

The documentary counters the popular narrative that Three Mile Island was a disaster, explaining that no one was hurt due to effective containment.

The film 'China Syndrome' and the HBO series 'Charitable' are criticized for their fictional and alarmist portrayals of nuclear accidents.

The documentary reveals that no one died from radiation in Fukushima, contrary to widespread beliefs.

The documentary discusses the ubiquity of radiation in nature and how it is not inherently harmful.

The film argues that the fear of nuclear power is largely driven by media sensationalism and a lack of understanding.

China and Russia are leading in nuclear power development, with China planning significant investments in new reactors.

The documentary points out that despite negative stereotypes, the U.S. still has more operational nuclear reactors than any country planning new ones.

The film discusses the environmental and health impacts of coal power, which are significantly worse than those of nuclear power.

The documentary addresses the issue of nuclear waste, explaining that the volume is much smaller than commonly believed and can be safely stored.

The film argues that nuclear power is a clean, reliable energy source that does not require backup or storage like other renewables.

The documentary concludes by emphasizing the need to overcome misconceptions about nuclear power to address climate change and energy needs.

Transcripts

The Joe Rogan Experience I'm really glad

how you covered it in this uh

documentary about Three Mile Island and

Chernobyl and Fukushima we have these

ideas in our mind about the dangers of

nuclear power and I love the analogy

that you made in the film about how

driving a car is not scary but it's

dangerous flying in a plane feels scary

but it's far safer yeah and this is a

great analogy to nuclear power when you

went over the the data when you talked

about the amount of death from coal

every year when you talk about the

amount of deaths overall ever from

nuclear it's it's stunning it is it's

stunning and then when you cut to in the

documentary you showed the anti-nuclear

movement that happened after Three Mile

Island yeah and how crazy it was it's

all these stars and celebrities and

they're doing concerts we've got to stop

nuclear power and

what a mess that happens in in when The

Fad I mean becomes fashionable yeah he's

a very successful movement you're

talking about the negatives here and the

accidents and uh

we we cover all that in the film which

is called nuclear now and the idea that

was behind it was because I really was

like you I mean I I went along with

those things in the 70s and the 80s

because I didn't know better I didn't I

wasn't educated I really wanted to know

what is nuclear power I wanted to go

back to the source and you've got to go

back to the beginning and you got to go

back to malikiri and Albert Einstein and

World War II and all how it could how it

got developed this nuclear energy is a

beautiful incredible almost a miracle

that was given to us that we have in

Earth it's all it's in the earth uranium

it's everywhere the planet the Earth the

Sun and we in a sense we took it like

Prometheus and we kind of misinterpreted

it misused it which is not which is kind

of normal for given what we do with

natural things

World War II was happening just as the

as the nuclear the fishing was being

understood and that made the bomb they

made the bomb with it because there was

a war on and they they rushed it and

they did a they did an amazing job

Oppenheimer down in

uh the the in Los Alamos but and they

got it and they were successful

but as you know it was misunderstood

that that point the nuclear energy was

not nuclear bomb in the contrary it was

a bomb is very difficult to build and it

takes a lot it takes years sometimes it

takes scientists and they have to enrich

the plutonium and they have to work at

it there's all configurations in the

bomb that don't exist in nuclear energy

so when people see a nuclear energy

plant they

subconsciously they cross it with both

war and they cross it with horror films

that they've seen in the 1950s with

radioactivity and monsters had come out

of that you know spider yeah spider

bites the man and you become Spider-Man

you know Hulk yeah it's incredible the

stuff that happens and it's all and if

Hollywood has done no favors to it it's

continued for years and years and years

and then

and of course you had a Three Mile

Island the film was coming out at the

same time uh China Syndrome and with

Jane Fonda was a good film I enjoyed it

we all enjoyed it but it really was

hysterical and alarmist saying and

nothing happened at Three Mile Island

except the reactor did melt down but

nobody get got hurt because the

containment structure worked to keep it

in to keep it in so there was no release

of radiation

and they continued on silkwood was

another one and then if you remember uh

not too long ago there was the HBO thing

charitable yeah which was a complete

fictionalization of what happened at

Chernobyl so we went to Russia and we

talked to the scientists there and we

wanted to know what happened to

Chernobyl and we find out and it's in

the film

and the same thing is true for Fukushima

which is unbelievable because I when you

go to the bottom of it it's I was

astounded to find out that nobody died

there from radiation not one Japanese

they checked the whole thing out and

it's been done to death

but you hear about fifteen twenty

thousand people died from the tsunami

and the earthquake which was the biggest

earthquake Japan ever had I mean really

we show the earthquake we show the

tsunami the wave was a hundred feet tall

there was a badly built wall the wall

was not a sea wall that was could hold

and the generators were flooded beneath

the the water and and these are these

were also not state-of-the-art

um that's right it's like what they can

do now in terms of these power plants

everything gets better I mean yeah but

even though those those nuclear reactors

built 60 70 years ago are still

functioning they're Legacy reactors they

do work yeah and we mustn't dismiss them

yeah it gets better than technology gets

better like as in any business you

and there's another generation and it's

better but hopefully better but uh the

point was that they could avoid what

happened in Fukushima today oh Fukushima

was if you if you look at closely Japan

had built uh 20 some reactors at that

point and this one is the only one the

others were exposed to the same

earthquake and the same kind of tsunami

several of them were on that same

coastline

but this particular one this plant was

uh was the only one that was shaken up

and even then all the radiation that was

released there was a hydrogen explosion

all the explo that radiation released in

the air you heard about it was not

supposed to be another terrible well

they we have shots in the film showing

they're taking tests on all the Japanese

citizens and nobody can you know it's

low level what they call low level

radiation which is we can sustain it we

have a we have DNA in our body that

fixes repairs our body as each day goes

by

we uh but it's also you point out very

well in the film that there's a lot of

radiation that you don't even take into

consideration that you encounter

constantly we have this idea of

radiation as being a net negative it's a

terrible thing but it's just a thing

you get it from being outside you get it

from rocks you get it from all sorts of

things

there's radiation in this room it's it's

it's uh you get radiation from eating a

banana I think what you said is so it's

so true that films and

um and comic books and are fictions of

radiation that's part of the problem

yeah that started early it's a giant

problem because comic books and all that

it plays to the worst aspects of human

nature which is we just love to get

terrified about headlines so we don't

read into the devil of the details

exactly that's what was confusing to me

and I really we're miseducated

uh and there is still a bias against

nuclear if you mention it to anybody

yeah it's scary instantly and it's yeah

but the point is we can live with it and

we have to because we're facing we're

finishing a very difficult situation a

cliff that we're going to go over and it

seems that no one's really getting it so

that's why I felt like the film I wanted

to know I need to educate myself so in

doing the film I think I was able to

bring out these things you talk about

what is wrong with nuclear energy it can

work it is a miracle we should use it

and we should use it abundantly the

Chinese have and the Russians are way

ahead of us they've built this they

built it and they built it with

government backing not like the us where

we kind of back it but we don't really

back it so as a result well China is

really cutting out now because they have

about 70 reactors approximately 70

reactors

yeah about 74 I think anyway they're

building and I've heard uh I can't I

don't remember the source but I did hear

that they're putting another 140 billion

dollars into this thing which means that

they're going to build 150 some reactors

over the next uh

by 2038 that is a serious investment

serious investment wow

that's a serious investment that would

take a long time for us to catch up to

oh it's not about competing it's right

but if we wanted to do what they're

doing right now well we have even if

it's not competing just to do just to be

current yeah so they're the leader right

now in it well no uh we're the biggest

country in the world we still have 90

some reactors online so China's climate

goals hinge on a 440 billion dollar

nuclear build out that's interesting so

we have we still have more even with all

the negative stereotypes about nuclear

reactors

planning on at least 150 new reactors in

the next 15 years more than the rest of

the world has built in the past 35. wow

that's why I'm surprised you remember no

it just says it right there the article

oh Jimmy just had it pulled up China uh

has wow and you got a system worked out

yeah Jamie's the wizard look at him over

there he's the best he doesn't know what

film is about even but this uh this uh

article that you just pulled up Jamie

this is from uh Bloomberg Jesus Christ

yeah well you see you got the source

right away yeah and this is from 2021

um it's this this whole thing it's it is

exactly how you lay it out in the film

it's almost like we have to cure

ourselves of these misconceptions and if

we don't we're screwed China's building

man they don't [ __ ] around now they have

a lot of cold they still they're still

building coal plants right because they

have a huge demand and they have to get

off the cold that isn't crucial because

they are completely contaminating the

atmosphere as well the more nuclear they

build the better it will be the

contamination from coal is terrifying we

showed a um a documentary that had been

done with do you remember the

documentary

no but I remember it was Indiana it was

a documentary it was all about

um one of the things that was

highlighting is all the people that live

around these plants and the air quality

they saw for it's insane their cars are

covered with like a thin film of you

know all the particulates in the in the

atmosphere that's great it's horrible

they estimate from air pollution alone

I've read figures of four million deaths

a year it's just so much you need so

many cases of you know respiratory

illnesses and that's horrible I want to

say 4 million a year from air pollution

but one million at least from coal a

year that's what I've seen look there

could be more coal in the so it's and

who knows what the the health negatives

are on top of that like how many people

are suffering with illnesses and

ailments because of those particulars

especially around those reactors or or

the plants rather it's horrible yeah

well we still have coal in the U.S yeah

no this was in the U.S this was in

Indiana correct oh yeah they have coal

everywhere I mean president Trump said

uh Trump digs coal I dig coal he said

clean cold once was just like what the

[ __ ] are you saying the [ __ ] are you

saying cleaner than what

the other lighting tires now the other

uh truth that we miss is gas now we know

how ugly the oil thing is I mean there's

the waste and all the oil and this

fossil fuel itself is destroying the

universe because we're putting carbon

into the atmosphere CO2 but uh gas is

considered they're using gas everywhere

even it seems like a modern thing they

say well Renewables which are solar and

wind those are we're all for that I want

wind we want solar but they don't work

all the time

they run out in winter at night is it

also a problem with Battery Technology

when it comes to this part of it too but

the point is when they run out what they

need is gas backup it's back up you see

nuclear

doesn't need storage and it doesn't need

backup what's the beauty of it it's a

real clean energy

and the gas does I mean uh

Renewables do need backup and that

backup is gas so it's not a hundred

percent like the one one of the issues

is about storage the waste yeah and when

you talked about just the the size of

the amount of storage it's not nearly as

much as a lot of people think it is

of the amount of we uh it's the only

waste that we America is

used up to now in the last since the

1958 whenever shipping Port was built

has amounts to about the size of Walmart

frankly you could put it in a Walmart in

other words people make a big deal about

waste but they don't realize that it's

so intensive an energy huge amount of

energy that it's it's uh how do you say

compact as a result so it fits into a

if waste itself is is a positive about

nuclear because

first of all there's been no harm done

so it's been buried in casks and first

of all it goes into water for maybe two

three years and that's a conductor that

takes takes the radioactivity down and

then it gets put into casks that are

12 to 14 feet they build these casks in

the United States they're concrete and

steel concrete

uh is a great uh it does not conduct uh

radioactivity concrete stops it so

concrete and and steel casks work they

can go for 100 years and then you can do

another 100 years and then eventually

eventually you realize that

radioactivity drops each time in four or

five years it's way down it tops to

almost if you I don't have all the

figures but you can see that it's it's a

ridiculous fear given compared to what

given climate change is so dangerous and

compared to the deaths that are already

occurring every year just from you using

the methods we have now in in comparison

to the amount of people that died from

nuclear it's very very small