What is the Java Job delusion?

Summary

In this video, the speaker discusses the 'Java job delusion,' clarifying that despite Java's versatility, most Java jobs are in server-side web app development. They note Java's verbosity, making it less ideal for rapid development like MVPs, and suggest it's often used in large organizations for maintaining legacy systems. The speaker advises considering the work environment and job nature before choosing Java, contrasting it with more nimble languages like JavaScript and Python, which are better for startups and dynamic projects.

Takeaways

• 💻 The speaker has extensive experience with Java, having written code in multiple languages, and loves Java despite the discussion being about its job market realities.
• 🌐 Java was initially marketed as a multi-platform, versatile language suitable for various applications including games, mobile apps, IoT, and web apps, but the majority of jobs are in server-side web app development.
• 📱 While Java was used for Android development, Google's recommendation of Kotlin has shifted the landscape, making Kotlin the preferred language for Android app creation.
• 📈 The speaker emphasizes that 'write time speed' is more critical than 'run time speed' due to the optimization and performance of high-level languages, making verbosity a drawback for Java.
• 🏢 Java jobs are predominantly found in larger organizations like banks and government sectors, which may not be suitable for those seeking a dynamic and fast-paced work environment.
• 🔧 Java developers often work on maintaining and expanding legacy code bases rather than creating new applications from scratch, leading to longer development cycles.
• 👔 The work culture in large organizations can be more rigid, with potential for more bureaucracy and less flexibility compared to smaller businesses.
• 🏆 Despite its verbosity, Java is still in high demand with many job opportunities, but these often come with the context of large enterprise environments.
• 🌐 The trend in new development is moving towards more agile languages like JavaScript, PHP, and Python, which offer quicker development cycles.
• 🏡 Post-COVID, there's an increase in remote work opportunities in the Java field, but it's more commonly found in smaller businesses with less corporate culture influence.

Q & A

What is the 'Java job delusion' mentioned in the video?

The 'Java job delusion' refers to the misconception that Java is used across a wide variety of projects, such as gaming, desktop, and IoT development. In reality, most Java jobs involve server-side web application development and maintaining legacy codebases, often for large organizations.

Why does the speaker emphasize that writing in Java takes time?

The speaker emphasizes that writing in Java takes time because the language is verbose, requiring developers to write explicit and detailed code. This can slow down development compared to more nimble languages like JavaScript, Python, or PHP.

What kinds of companies typically use Java for development, according to the speaker?

Java is typically used in medium to large organizations, such as banks, governments, or other enterprises. These companies often focus on maintaining or expanding existing applications rather than building new ones from scratch.

What are some of the primary tasks Java developers often find themselves doing?

Java developers often spend significant time configuring application servers, handling configuration files, managing deployment cycles, and maintaining legacy codebases. These tasks can involve dealing with complex configurations and long development cycles.

Why is Kotlin now the preferred language for Android development over Java?

Google announced Kotlin as the preferred language for Android development a few years ago, which led to a shift in the industry. While some Android development is still done in Java, Kotlin is now widely used for new projects.

How does working for a large organization using Java differ from working for a small business with nimble languages like JavaScript or PHP?

Working for a large organization using Java typically involves a structured, controlled environment with longer development cycles and less flexibility. In contrast, small businesses using nimble languages like JavaScript or PHP tend to have quicker development cycles, more diverse responsibilities, and a more dynamic work environment.

What does the speaker mean by 'runtime speed' versus 'right-time speed'?

'Runtime speed' refers to how fast the compiled code runs, while 'right-time speed' refers to how quickly a developer can write the code. The speaker believes that right-time speed is more important today, as modern software is often highly optimized, making development speed a higher priority than code execution speed.

What are some challenges Java developers face in larger organizations, according to the speaker?

Java developers in large organizations often face challenges like navigating corporate politics, dealing with rigid HR processes, working on long-term projects with legacy code, and handling complex configurations. The work can be less dynamic compared to startups or small businesses.

Why might a developer choose not to use Java for a minimum viable product (MVP)?

Developers might avoid using Java for MVPs because it requires writing verbose code, which slows down development. Nimble languages like JavaScript, Python, or PHP allow for quicker iterations, which are better suited for MVPs where speed of development is critical.

What career advice does the speaker offer regarding Java development?

The speaker advises developers to consider the job opportunities in their area before committing to Java. Since Java jobs are mostly in larger organizations dealing with legacy codebases, developers should assess whether this type of work aligns with their career goals and preferences.

Outlines

00:00

💻 The Reality of Java in the Job Market

The speaker starts by sharing their extensive experience with Java, expressing love for the language, but introduces a 'job delusion' concerning the real-world applications of Java. Despite Java's versatility, most jobs related to Java focus on server-side web app development, with a small portion in Android. The speaker contrasts the original vision of Java, which promised multi-platform use, with the current reality of it being used primarily for large web applications and server-side development in big corporations. They stress that while Java is fast at runtime, its verbosity makes it slower to write, which affects its viability for quick, modern development projects like MVPs (Minimum Viable Products).

05:02

🏢 Java Jobs: Large Organizations and Legacy Code

Java developers often find themselves working for large or medium-sized organizations such as banks or government institutions, where development cycles are longer, and they deal with legacy code. The speaker points out the stark contrast between working in such environments, which are often regimented, and working in small startups or businesses where the pace is faster and more dynamic. They also highlight the significant role of interpersonal skills in large companies, emphasizing the importance of dealing with HR, office politics, and the bureaucratic nature of these environments.

10:02

🔧 Challenges of Java Development in Large Enterprises

The speaker discusses the implications of working on legacy code in Java, highlighting that developers in this field typically maintain or expand older applications, often over several years. They explain that this type of work can feel monotonous, especially for those who enjoy diverse and fast-paced projects. Additionally, the speaker describes the heavy configuration involved in Java development, mentioning frameworks like Spring and Spring Boot, which, though more streamlined than earlier frameworks, still require significant setup. They share anecdotes from Java developers, noting long deployment cycles, complex configurations, and the pressure of working on critical enterprise applications.

🏠 Java Jobs and Remote Work Post-COVID

The speaker explores the cultural differences between large corporations and smaller businesses, specifically concerning remote work. They observe that while remote work has become more common post-COVID, especially in large organizations, it's still more prevalent in smaller businesses, which tend to be more flexible. The speaker contrasts the rigid, culture-bound work environment of large companies, which often expect employees to be physically present, with the more laid-back, flexible atmosphere of smaller companies. They emphasize how large organizations tend to be more resistant to change due to their legacy systems and established workplace norms.

📈 Java: Large Organizations, Legacy Code, and Career Considerations

In conclusion, the speaker advises viewers to assess job opportunities in their local area before committing to a Java career. Java jobs tend to be in larger organizations with legacy codebases, which may not appeal to everyone, especially those seeking dynamic and creative work. The speaker notes that while there are exceptions, the trend leans toward using Java for maintaining existing systems rather than developing new, innovative projects. They also mention the shift in Android development towards Kotlin, which has implications for those looking to specialize in mobile development. The speaker wraps up by promoting their mentoring program, offering an affordable, hybrid boot camp experience.

Keywords

💡Java

Java is a popular, high-level programming language that has been widely used since its release in 1995. In the video, it is discussed as a versatile language initially marketed for multi-platform applications such as games, desktop apps, and mobile development. However, the video emphasizes that today, most Java jobs involve server-side web app development, particularly in large organizations.

💡Server-side programming

Server-side programming refers to coding that runs on the server rather than the user's device. In the context of the video, Java is mainly used for server-side web application development, meaning developers work on the backend logic and databases of web apps rather than the user interface or front-end features.

💡Legacy code

Legacy code refers to old, outdated software code that is still in use. The video highlights that much of the work in the Java job market involves maintaining or updating legacy systems in large organizations, meaning developers often work on older, established applications rather than new, from-scratch projects.

💡Verbose

Verbose refers to the tendency of Java to require writing a lot of code to accomplish tasks. In the video, this is seen as one of Java's drawbacks; despite its performance at runtime, it takes more time to write Java code because of its explicit syntax, making it less favorable for quick development tasks like building minimum viable products (MVPs).

💡Spring and Spring Boot

Spring and Spring Boot are frameworks used for building Java applications, especially web apps. The video touches on how these frameworks, although more lightweight than previous ones, still require significant configuration and are common in enterprise Java development, especially in larger organizations with complex software needs.

💡Minimum Viable Product (MVP)

An MVP is a version of a product with the minimum features necessary to be functional and testable in the market. The speaker mentions that they would not use Java for building MVPs due to its verbosity and longer development times. Instead, lighter languages like JavaScript or Python are more suited for this type of rapid development.

💡Kotlin

Kotlin is a modern programming language that has been adopted as the preferred language for Android development. The video discusses Kotlin as a more flexible and concise alternative to Java for mobile development, following Google's recommendation to favor Kotlin over Java for building Android apps.

💡Enterprise-level applications

Enterprise-level applications refer to large, complex software systems used by businesses, often with strict reliability, security, and performance requirements. The video emphasizes that Java is commonly used in such environments, including big banks or government organizations, where developers work on stable, long-term projects and legacy systems.

💡Interpersonal skills

Interpersonal skills refer to the ability to interact effectively with others, which is highlighted in the video as a critical factor for Java developers, especially in large organizations. The speaker explains that working in corporate environments often involves navigating office politics, working with HR, and collaborating with diverse teams.

💡Remote work

Remote work refers to the ability to work from locations outside the traditional office. The video mentions that while remote opportunities have increased, especially post-COVID, working remotely in Java development is less common than in smaller businesses, as large organizations often maintain more traditional, office-based cultures.

Highlights

Java is often associated with server-side web app development and some Android development.

Java was initially marketed as a multi-platform, multi-use case language.

The majority of Java jobs are in server-side programming and less in Android development due to Google's preference for Kotlin.

Java's verbosity can slow down the development process, affecting its suitability for rapid development environments.

Java's strength lies in its performance at runtime, not necessarily in development speed.

Java is less commonly used for minimum viable product (MVP) applications due to its verbosity.

Java jobs are typically found in larger organizations such as banks and government entities.

Working with Java often involves dealing with HR departments and interpersonal politics.

Java developers are often sought after for their interpersonal skills, especially in large organizations.

Java development often involves maintaining or expanding legacy code bases rather than creating new applications from scratch.

Java projects tend to have long development cycles, which may not suit those who prefer dynamic and varied work.

Java is commonly used with frameworks like Spring and Spring Boot, which are considered heavy and configuration-intensive.

Java developers may experience long deployment cycles and the need for early morning deployments to minimize service disruptions.

Java jobs are often in larger organizations, which may offer less flexibility for remote work compared to smaller businesses.

The Java job market is characterized by a focus on maintaining and upgrading legacy systems in established companies.

The speaker suggests checking local job opportunities to assess the Java job market and company cultures before committing to learning Java.

Java development is often tied to larger organizations with strong company cultures that may prefer on-site work.

The speaker offers a mentoring program for those interested in becoming professional developers through a hybrid learning approach.

Transcripts

hey guys how are you so what is the Java

job delusion let me start off by saying

that I have written more lines of java

code than any other language and I've

written Commercial Code in eight nine

languages so I love Java I'm not doing a

hit piece on Java here but I'm going to

give you a little bit of reality about

what Java is all about

with regards to the job market which I

think for most people that's what

they're most concerned about

writing a Java code means certain things

about the type of work

and the type of place you will work for

so when you look at Java

it was initially sold as the

multi-platform language

multi-use case language believe me I was

there in 95 when it was released

Java was sold as a potential language

for creating games for desktop

applications now for mobile with Android

use it for iot devices web apps etc etc

this is all true to a certain extent

this is all true to a certain extent but

the reality of the situation

is the vast majority of java development

is server-side web app development

and perhaps a slice of Android

development native Mobile Android but

because Google said a couple years ago

the number one choice language to create

your Android apps in now is kotlin

that's another story but anyway

most of the jobs though are going to be

in Java server-side programming and a

smidge of Android development so what

kind of web apps are we looking at in

the Java World well we're looking at

large web apps big web apps we're not

looking at the late Nimble startups

again Java is

like in my heart is my favorite language

I love Java I love the explicitness of

the code it's easy to read and

understand the problem is Java is

extremely verbose you have to write out

all that explicit code and it takes time

it takes time it takes a lot of time and

as I say many many in in many many

videos I've said many times I said right

time speed is far more important than

run time speed let me say that again

right time speed the speed of writing

with a particular language is more

important that the speed at which of the

language code runs

that's because

software is so optimized these days the

high level languages the dynamic

languages like JavaScript

python pH

plural they don't run nearly as quick as

Java not nearly as quick as Java except

for maybe JavaScript but I would have to

check into that but generally speaking

Java when it compiles

it's super fast very performant at

runtime

the problem is it's going to take you

forever to write anything in Java

because that code is so bloody verbose

so even though I love Jaffa I would not

use Java to build any minimum viable

product application today no MVPs in

Java for me that's for sure

I would use Java only in highly

specialized situations

anyhow that's just me but it's a lot of

other people too the trend is in terms

of new development

from scratch development fresh

development is what the later nimbler

languages like the javascripts and the

phps and the python

but

you still see a heck of a lot of java

jobs where are those jobs that's the

question so all the Java jobs the vast

majority are going to be in larger

organizations mediums to large

businesses think big Banks Etc

government that's that kind of thing

that's cool but that that means that

you're working for it

either type of company

a particular type of organization which

suggests a certain work environment that

you may or may not like so anybody will

tell you if you work for a large

organizations you're dealing with HR

departments you have to deal with

interpersonal politics so again

the number two thing I say again because

I talk about in many videos the number

two things that recruiters look for in

their developers the number two thing

that recruiters look for in their

developers is their interpersonal skills

this is especially true

if you're going to go work for a very

large organization that is huge I talk

to people I never have personally I've

worked in one as a Hired Gun for like

two three weeks that's another story

I've never have full time

but I know several people who have or

had and it's a different game than

working for a small startup or a small

business it's much more regimented much

more controlled much more about politics

and crossing your t's and dotting your

eyes HR departments that kind of thing

dress codes

Etc et cetera et cetera et cetera so you

have to think that if you are going to

get a job in Java world it's probably

going to be web app

maybe some Android development but more

importantly it's going to be for large

medium to large organizations and the

final Point you're probably going to be

working on

Legacy code bases that are being

maintained or expanded not from scratch

and again that implies a whole different

type of development when you are looking

at Legacy development maintaining old

apps or expanding them that implies long

development Cycles so you may be working

on a particular project a particular

goal base for a year two years three

years or longer

again that may be something you like but

if you're somebody who wants to be able

to build something over here and then

build another type of app and then

finish that off and launch another type

of app if you want something a little

bit more dynamic

you may not want to jump into the Java

world that is not that's that type of

stuff is more akin to the lighter

nimbler languages like the javascripts

and so forth again these are General

General generalities these are not you

know every there's always exceptions to

the rule but it's something to consider

in the Java World there are going to be

doing web apps majority of time and

you're probably going to be using spring

and spring boot I haven't looked at that

framework in a long time and it's

actually lighter in nimbler compared to

previous Java Frameworks believe me but

it's still pretty heavy it's still

pretty heavy lots of configurations lots

of config files lots of xmls you got to

fill in I was talking to a friend of

mine who's an active Java developer and

he tells me maybe half of his job is

configuration configuring app servers

config files dealing with config

conflicts chasing down semicolons that

are missing that breaks an application

big long deployment Cycles having to get

up at four in the morning on Saturday to

make sure the app is deployed properly

because you're working on Enterprise

level apps Enterprise means huge so you

can't have a banking app go down right

so you better they do it on the weekends

and they do it at four in the morning so

it makes sure everything if anything

breaks they can roll back

without disrupting too many people so

this is uh this is Java this is this is

Java now again highly paid

lots of java jobs out there no question

but it's that world whereas if you're

going into the JavaScript web world or

the PHP web world it's small business

maybe medium-sized typically you're

working on small Nimble projects you're

done in two months a month three months

maybe four months very quick development

cycle in and out trying different things

working on different things when you

work for small business you're going to

have a lot more

responsibility perhaps whereas if you

work for a in a giant on a giant project

you may be just in involved with the

authentication there for a Java based

app for a while or we may be involved

with some reporting component that you

have to keep expanding or debugging

whereas if you work for a small business

you're probably going to be working in

broader aspects of the app so it could

be a lot more fun for you as a

programmer because it's more General and

you know you can jump around there's

some change in that as opposed to being

stuck on working on a particular feature

for a long period of time just something

to consider so the final point when

you're doing Java development because

you're going to likely be working for

larger organizations

the chance for remote

work or less that being said post covid

there's more opportunity for remote work

in the Java world no question about that

but

it's much more common in small business

because small businesses are not so

Bound by culture

and culture is a big part of

the impact of how a developer lives

their day-to-day Life as a developer

working for a company big corporations

tend to have

very strong cultures

cultures based on old models of uh uh

you know running a business where they

want people to show up at work a lot you

know and you see that now there's a big

battle Brewing out there on the uh

in the world between management wants

people to come in and between coders who

don't want to come in

again

when you're working for small businesses

and medium-sized businesses that

cultural weight if you will on you is

not as heavy as it is when you're

working for a large business and again

as I said most of the time Java is going

to be leveraged in large organizations

who are maintaining Legacy code bases

yes in the comments below I'm sure

somebody will say yeah but I know this

one company yes there are always

exceptions to every rule

bottom line is before you jump in to the

Java World thinking this is what I want

to do

I always suggest look at the job

opportunities in your area go to the job

sites check out the job opportunities

check out the companies that are using

Java and make your own assessment see

what's going on

so to wrap up

Java typically larger organization

typically web although you will see some

Android again with the Android though

it's tipping more towards kotlin for

Android development now that's because

Google recommended kotlin over java and

it affects your career so the Java job

delusion in a nutshell is

you're probably not going to be doing

too much gaming you're probably not

going to be doing desktop development

you're probably not going to be doing

iot stuff you're probably going to be

doing Legacy projects maintaining and

upgrade updating

Legacy code bases at large companies

which implies a certain type of work

that you will do

I hope this is useful thanks for

watching if you want to be mentored by

the 169 year old developer that's me

Uncle Steph check out Uncle staff.com I

have a mentoring program

it's still open to people if you're

interested it's a hybrid boot camp where

you get the best of both worlds you get

the in classroom like experience where

we have live coaching sessions but you

also get the advantages of distance

learning with my custom Interactive

gamified Learning platform

brought together you get great learning

experience in becoming a professional

developer without the huge cost that you

typically see in a boot camp where

you're going to be paying four five ten

twenty thousand dollars for a boot camp

or spending four years in a college

program Check It Out Below Uncle Steph

thanks for watching bye