Truth in Telecoms, Robert Vis Part 2
Summary
TLDRIn this discussion, the speaker delves into the challenges faced by messaging companies like Twilio, where traditional revenue models have been upended by carriers demanding a share of profits. The conversation touches on the impact of the Campaign Registry and the diminishing value proposition of messaging platforms. The speaker also shares insights on market manipulations, the future of RCS with Google and Apple, and the inevitable industry consolidation. They express a personal vendetta against certain industry players and predict a significant shift towards direct carrier agreements, rendering traditional messaging companies obsolete.
Takeaways
- 📉 The messaging industry, particularly companies like Twilio, has faced challenges due to carriers charging for messages, which has negatively impacted their business model.
- 💸 Companies that have made significant profits in the messaging industry have done so at a time when the market was more favorable, and some have since cashed out.
- 🚫 The establishment of the campaign registry by carriers in 2020 has further complicated the messaging business model by allowing carriers to charge for messages, thus reducing profitability.
- 🌐 The messaging industry is global, with different regions having different dynamics, and some companies have had to navigate complex relationships with carriers and other industry players.
- 💰 Some messaging companies have resorted to stock buybacks to inflate their stock prices, as seen with Twilio's $1.2 billion buyback in Q2 of a specific year.
- 📈 The speaker predicts a consolidation in the messaging industry, with larger companies potentially absorbing smaller ones, despite their current profitability.
- 🛑 The rise of RCS (Rich Communication Services) and the involvement of tech giants like Google and Apple may render traditional SMS and messaging platforms obsolete.
- 🏆 The speaker expresses a desire to build a brand in the US market, recognizing the potential for growth and the opportunity to differentiate from European markets.
- 💬 There is a significant focus on the future of messaging, with discussions about the role of technology, security, and the impact of fraudulent activities on the industry's reputation.
- ⚖️ Legal actions and disputes are mentioned as a part of the landscape, with some companies facing lawsuits and others navigating complex legal environments.
Q & A
What was the initial business model issue for companies like Twilio?
-The initial issue was that companies like Twilio were charging customers per message, which was still cheaper than Europe, but the carriers eventually started charging them for the messages, significantly altering the business model.
What is the significance of the Campaign Registry in the messaging industry?
-The Campaign Registry was created by carriers under the guise of stopping spam, but it enabled them to charge for messages, which started a couple of years ago and has been a significant change in the industry.
Why did the speaker mention CCH and their stock situation?
-CCH is mentioned as an example of a company that has a large number of outstanding shares, which makes the stock price struggle to increase due to the sheer volume, illustrating the challenges in the market.
What did the speaker suggest about the future of messaging companies and their profitability?
-The speaker suggested that many messaging companies have already made their money and the industry is moving towards a point where traditional messaging companies may not be as profitable due to changes in technology and market dynamics.
Why did the speaker mention an activist investor's role in Twilio?
-The speaker mentioned activist investors in Twilio to illustrate how they are trying to inflate the stock price through buybacks, indicating the struggles and tactics used in the market.
What is the speaker's view on the role of violence in business?
-The speaker is anti-violence and prefers to compete and 'torture' in business rather than through physical means, indicating a preference for legal and strategic competition.
What is the significance of the speaker's decision to leave the Netherlands?
-Leaving the Netherlands was a significant move for the speaker as it was a big deal in their home country, and it signifies a transition to building a brand in the US market.
Why does the speaker believe there is no future in the European market for their company?
-The speaker believes there is no future in the European market because of the saturation and the challenges in making significant profits there, suggesting a shift towards the US market.
What is the speaker's opinion on the role of RCS and the campaign registry in the future of messaging?
-The speaker believes that the campaign registry and the need for intermediaries will become obsolete as RCS and direct connections with carriers and tech giants like Apple and Google become more prevalent.
Why is the speaker critical of certain practices in the messaging industry?
-The speaker is critical because they see certain practices, like robotic account creation and kickbacks, as harmful to the industry's long-term health and trustworthiness.
Outlines
📉 Decline of Messaging Companies' Business Model
The speaker discusses the downfall of messaging companies like Twilio, which initially profited from sending messages and charging customers per message. However, the business model was disrupted when carriers started to charge for messages, leading to a decline in profitability. The speaker also touches on the broader impact on tech companies during this period and the shift to a new campaign registry that allowed carriers to charge for messages, further affecting the industry.
🏝️ Market Saturation and Entrepreneurial Exits
The paragraph delves into the market saturation and the strategic exits of entrepreneurs who made money and are now enjoying their earnings. It mentions the challenges faced by companies like Cinch, which have a large number of outstanding shares making their stock price struggle to increase. The speaker also discusses their own market observations and investments, as well as the competitive landscape and the strategies of companies like Thoron and Cinch in the messaging space.
🤝 The Shift in Messaging Industry Dynamics
This section covers the changing dynamics within the messaging industry, including the influence of organizations like MEF and the impact of carriers' decisions on the industry's structure. The speaker recounts personal experiences with industry figures and companies, highlighting the often tumultuous relationships and the strategic moves made by businesses to secure their positions, such as cashing out or going public.
🚫 The Erosion of Trust in SMS and the Rise of RCS
The speaker addresses the erosion of trust in SMS due to fraud and the rise of Rich Communication Services (RCS) as a potential solution. They discuss the challenges faced by legitimate companies in the messaging space and the role of carriers in the value chain. The paragraph also touches on the speaker's views on the future of messaging technologies and the potential impact of RCS on the industry.
📲 The Future of Messaging in the Age of RCS and Big Tech
The focus here is on the future of messaging with the advent of RCS and the involvement of tech giants like Google and Apple. The speaker speculates on the potential obsolescence of the campaign registry and the role of aggregators in the face of direct connections to these tech platforms. They also discuss the implications for companies like Cinch and the broader industry, suggesting a shift towards application-side value creation.
💼 Industry Consolidation and the Role of Established Organizations
In this final paragraph, the speaker predicts industry consolidation and the potential disappearance of certain business models. They emphasize the importance of respected organizations like the GSMA and ITU in the telecom sector and reflect on the speaker's own company's strategy and the broader market trends, including the challenges faced by companies like Cinch and the impact of Wall Street's perceptions on the industry.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Twilio
💡Campaign Registry
💡Messaging Monopolies
💡Stock Buybacks
💡SMS Spoofing
💡RCS (Rich Communication Services)
💡Aggregator
💡Interoperability
💡Anti-competitive
💡Regulators
Highlights
Twilio and similar companies initially profited from sending messages and charging customers per message, which was cheaper than European rates.
The business model for messaging companies was disrupted when carriers started charging for messages, significantly impacting the industry.
The carriers created the campaign registry in 2020 under anti-spam guidelines, which allowed them to charge for messages, further changing the landscape for messaging companies.
Some messaging companies have already made significant profits, while others like Cinch are struggling due to the market saturation and the number of outstanding shares.
Twilio conducted a $1.2 billion buyback in Q2 to appease activist investors, highlighting the stock's struggle despite such efforts.
The interviewee suggests that the messaging industry is moving towards consolidation, with larger players like Salesforce and Cisco potentially taking the lead.
The interviewee criticizes the Campaign Registry and its association with what they view as fraudulent practices in the messaging industry.
There's a prediction that the industry will shift rapidly with the adoption of RCS and direct integration with tech giants like Google and Apple, making current messaging platforms obsolete.
The interviewee expresses a desire to build a brand in the US, recognizing the potential for growth and the need to separate personal identity from the company brand.
The discussion touches on the challenges of making money in Europe compared to the US, suggesting a strategic move towards the latter for business expansion.
The interviewee shares personal anecdotes about dealing with industry players, including a confrontation with a competitor that led to a deeper involvement in the industry's politics.
The conversation hints at potential legal actions against certain players in the messaging industry, indicating a highly competitive and litigious environment.
The interviewee discusses the importance of creating value for customers rather than focusing solely on short-term financial gains, emphasizing long-term business strategy.
There's a mention of the potential for RCS to revolutionize the messaging industry by providing a direct channel between brands and customers, bypassing traditional SMS.
The interview concludes with a discussion on the future of the messaging industry, with a focus on the need for innovation and adaptation to new technologies like RCS.
Transcripts
essentially companies like twio being
paid to send messages and charging their
customers you know 809 whatever it was
per message which by the way was still
significantly cheaper than Europe but
like free is free um and then I think
what turned for them and they were sort
of double unlucky um one markets turned
it wasn't just twio I mean you know they
were worth 70 billion where many other
companies were worth a gazillion dollars
that that uh in in that time frame so
they H so they had that uh downside and
the carriers finally got smart and we're
like hey why are we not getting you know
any any of this rep share of this of
this message from this brand and they
started charging um too and that those
two things killed the business model but
that that only started in 2020 the
carriers created the campaign registry
and you should go read Allen's messaging
monopolies report they started the
campaign registry under the guidelines
of wanting to stop spam but what they
enabled is now the ability to charge a
half a penny and up to a penny uh per
message through this [ __ ]
registration process through you know an
entity called The Campaign registry so
that didn't really start till a couple
of years ago what my angle is all of
these guys in messaging all anybody's
already made their money youve either
made your money and you're sitting on a
beach like the guys at CCH and they have
900 million outstanding shares you want
to know why their stock could never go
up not because of you or twillo or
anybody else because there's a billion
shares it's like a penny stock right so
I study the markets I watch the markets
and that's what I play and that's what I
watch you can't buy cinch because
there's too many shares it's like Wolf
of Wall Street [ __ ] it you can't it
can't it can't go up right why is twio
doing twio did a 1.2 billion dollars in
Buybacks in Q2 and this year alone and
they did it because the activist
investors are trying to inflate it
didn't even work yeah if they didn't do
the BuyBacks the stock would be 35 right
now right so what I'm say to you is you
got out right there's winners and
there's losers and you know the Cinch
guys they work very closely with thoron
I I remember when Meo uh Meo started
giving him all kinds of problems and
this is when I first did a deal with
Thorson and they literally s me to go
like torture this kid so I met this kid
andreao and they thought I guess they
thought I was a thug because I kind of
talk like one but I'm antiviolence I I
would rather sue you for like a hundred
years and torture you in business then I
just don't I can't even watch UFC
fighting because to me it's inhuman um
I'm going to go meet this kid and these
day was so angry with this guy on on
what he did what he was doing to them
but it was just trivial [ __ ] so they
had their little cabal going those guys
but CCH cashed out Jeff lawon bought the
on he cashed out you cashed in for CCH
they're trying to do they're trying to
do an IPO I mean to poor infit they're
trying to do an IPO right now because
they got $800 million from JP Morgan sub
one Equity they're forced it's the only
way they're getting their money but at
point I think the point of my first
question is you answered it when you saw
this coming and now you're heading to
the big leagues and you're really going
to the big leag you're talking about
Salesforce you're talking about Cisco
now merging and by the way they all have
directs by the way infobus got directs
right now right Cisco's got directs I
mean and I know you're working through
cin but you don't don't view that
because you're giving it away I'm just
trying to
understand uh on your angle on on what
you're doing I guess I guess it's kind
of too early for me to ask you that
question but one more thing before we go
when you decided to leave the
Netherlands it was a big deal right it
was a big deal in your country right and
your brand is huge over there and then I
see you on X and I'm saying to myself
and I listen to you talk because you
separate your own identity from your
country your company you know a lot of
people do that uh and smart
entrepreneurs SM CEOs I'm a fan of of of
real leaders like you are um when are
you gonna start building your brand in
the US like really building it because
you're gonna they're gonna love you over
here because you're never going to make
money in
Europe I mean people I mean I have I I I
thank you for all the compliments but I
have I have so much like okay let me let
me go back one if you don't mind let me
go back on on one uh
day make your make your podcast longer I
I think that look whether it's campaign
registry or
uh like what is what is that mobile
economic for MEF and me meth was a porn
was a porn site right where the guys got
together Allan writes a story about them
meth was started long time ago but
gerchman got involved with meth to stop
Meo and those guys he didn't know what
to do so they
started no gersman is a chairman of meth
all right me's now involved they let
they let they let Meo in and look I know
Andrea I went to go play golf with this
kid I played four days of golf with this
guy Andrea I didn't know him but I knew
him from The Voice days because I come
from voice he used to be a call Trad so
a buddy of mine said look this guy Andre
is a good guy he's just a hustler and he
just out hustled the [ __ ] out of those
guys and created a business however
anybody wants to look at it he's just
making money he'll never be sold he'll
never go public he's just making money
but youo meth meth is just an organized
crime family uh where you pay and you
get your messages across that's all it
is and and and and look it's okay
there's nothing wrong with it it's it's
a catering hall where you go to and you
pay the catering guy to get a voice but
this is my point but this is my this is
this is my point so we've never been a
member of all these of all these
[ __ ] organizations
and you had this whole time period when
like they forced carriers that if you
want wanted to if you wanted to send
across a like it was crazy you would in
order there was like so like we were
asked to be founding member of be we
denied and like and nobody could ever
explain to me what their so what their
sole purpose was combat fraud I was like
yeah but the frauds there are on your
board so like that's kind of crazy like
so we never so so so we we never we we
never and U so so we never participated
but there was this time and it worked
out because I don't know if there's
still relevant but like it at the time
five years ago this was wild you had
like you could not get a car connection
without being a member of MEF and like
we had to fight hard in order to
basically be like hey hold on I'm a m of
G I didn't know this this is pretty bad
that's that's that's what that's what
look that's what they did that's what
the guys C did the guys as C smart these
boys are smart they cash out they made
their money they kick back money back to
soft bank and said here sorry we robbed
you here take your money back and now
they got a$2 billion company they did
what they did but Memphis still the same
way I mean they did a hit piece on my
CEO who was the former Chief counsel
head of cyber security for the United
States Coast Guard you don't get a
higher security clearance and they hire
this this this fat Misfit from commrisk
who they just hired back to write a hit
piece on this guy I mean this is the
kind of trivial stuff we loved it I
don't know if you're sure thear they
pick ited his event because they
wouldn't let a woman on the board
there's a lot of stuff that you need to
know but I think I want to see you
succeed and I want to understand how
you're going to navigate in the US and
also build a brand I think if you can
build your brand because there's nobody
Who's Got a Brand in the industry Jeff
laon went on TV and live oh I love you
I'm GNA give money to the homeless I do
this well as he was robbing the [ __ ] out
of you never talking about how he was
ever gonna make money for his show or
how his company was ever going to be
profitable so I view you as a breath of
fresh air and look I just want to buy I
want to buy in on the IPO to be honest
with you I think I you have to be doing
an IPO at some point and you can't tell
me you're going to do this Europe you
just can't we will never IPO in Europe
but
like my and that will never happen but
like uh for many for many I mean by the
way I mean look at all the I mean I
don't know if you can follow me or next
you see the crazy [ __ ] going on right
now where like they're arresting
founders of platforms I mean look I
don't I'm not I don't we don't know
exactly why he was arrested so let's
start there pav the founder of telegram
so provided that the information that we
do know is true this is because you
wouldn't play ball this is the most wild
we over here in the US no he was
arrested you either play ball look
Google just made an assassination
attempt disappear on their search and
said yeah we met it we messed up so look
it it just it's just a world we live in
Robert but you're still safe over here
no matter how crazy people think it is
right or left it's all the same they all
end up working it out together in the US
but that guy's got a problem he's
screwed yeah yeah he does have it seems
like he has a real he he just he just
hired Quin Emanuel a lawyer who just got
off he was elon's lawyer he was also um
Alec Baldwin's lawyer the guy that shot
the guy in the movie Set they hired uh
his name is Alex I forget his name is
but Quin Emanuel one of my attorneys um
his wife is a partner there I mean he's
gonna fight this thing all the way
through but he's gonna have to play
ballert it's very simple yeah but it's
it's crazy it's crazy it's like it's
like the most the like the most wild
things are happening at the moment so
like on your on your point on United
States and on your point on the future
of the company I mean
one this is a long haul game I think the
problem that people have in this
industry is that they're too short
minded and they're too focused on money
and not focused on creating value for
customers yeah and and telecoms allowed
that because there's a significant
amount of money whether you're on let's
say you know if you divide the industry
into like sort of like three buckets you
have like red bucket which are all the
frauders and all those guys and uh then
you have sort of like the gry line
bucket that are like kind ofish kind of
not like you you know just depends
whether it's Monday or Tuesday and then
you have the uh sort of like people that
are trying to stay on the right right
right side of the line I think between
all of them the problem is 90% of the
industry is between red and gray and
there's only very maybe even 95 or 99 so
it's there's only very few people that
are that are trying to sort of like stay
there and if you want to be on that side
then you need a l then this is a long ha
game because what you're actually
breaking through is interconnectedness
of
like so many different Legacy agreements
and industries and people that is the
reason why you should just take
tinch because I tell you why because you
could buy you can get it for a price
that it would shock you but there's
nothing but there's nothing that tinch
has that I want I think they have the
they have a connectivity platform we
have more I have more I have more
connections than tinch I have a better
platform than ttin you definitely don't
you definitely don't have a better
platform than you don't not not on
messaging connectivities not even close
sorry
sorry I can't
stand look got got German 24 hours seven
humping his own he humps it himself but
but he doesn't make but if if he had if
it was so great it would make more money
like no it doesn't make more money
because he doesn't want to make more
money all he wants to to him it's a
shrine to himself he doesn't care he's
not interested building I think think I
think no but I I look I'll be I'll be
honest before they hate me but like I'm
also serious I think I'm not what I'm
not saying I don't think tinch is
interesting for us because honestly like
with due respect to tinch I think I have
a better platform but like and I have
more connectivity than than tinch Etc
that said that said tinch has unique
assets that are uniquely positioned for
the markets that's why you know we're a
customer they're a customer etc etc so
there's nothing wrong wrong with tinch I
think they're great they're a great
company there's a lotong with TCH I'm
just trying to sell it to you because
you're my last chance IED to sell it I'm
not a buyer the other thing is like it's
like I I it's just like what like you
know these days I mean they could give
it to me for free that's fine but like
you know I'd be happy I know I know I'm
serious like I'm I'm happy to take I you
didn't hear my conversation we were
willing to take stock in a company that
was getting bought I said free I said
free not stock I'm not giving stock
either no stock is
paper you you can give stock look kch
has got value to it it's definitely
value 600 million in cash for spark post
because I didn't want to give away any
stock yeah I don't give I'm not a St I'm
not a stock Giver um that's why I still
control the company that's why I still
so like fair enough it's it's no but but
I think T has unique assets I think a
good buyer for a company like tinac and
by the way many messaging companies out
there no there's going to be no fire
because there's going to be litigation
coming out and that's doing business
with them that is a partner of them I'm
going after them too they owe me9
million point blank blank Point Blank
hey now first you try to sell me
something and then you're gonna sue me
you my last chance you you were my last
chance to sell it so at the end of the
day me and th are not gonna get along
I'm not gonna make a deal with him I
would rather burn the money that he's
trying to offer me which is pennies
compared to what he owes me I saved him
him and his his little sidekick there uh
they basically were fire from their
company I enabled them to do a
management buyout I gave these guys
everything and then they screwed me so
this is personal and cpio partners the
fund that owes them they're also run a
company called wire which competes with
M telegram so they're a PE group out of
Germany that I hate more than I can I I
don't hate dorsy because I understand
the animal right he's just a disgusting
lunatic and he he's not a good guy but
the guys that cpio partners are the most
treacherous PE group and you know pees
right these guys threw out Allan Durk of
wire so you know I was gonna I was gonna
do a post on them and start going after
them hey why don't you tell us what
happened what you did with the guy from
telegram CIO because they play that game
too because they're they're a
competitor of telegram but they're a
competitor of telegram on a corporate
level with governments which is kind of
amazing how a private Equity Group
treacherous cpio Partners so cpio
Partners is in there we're gonna start
sooning I'm gonna file a RICO suit on
them that I'm calling it out right here
and Rico's a bad word right Rico you
know Rico means r icio that not good it
was developed for organized crime they
organized crime I used to I used to look
I used to watch Miami Vice so I know so
look I don't really care anymore you
were their last chance to be honest with
you we're gonna hit the mat I don't care
dorson just tried to have me arrested in
Germany he said he's got a judgment to
put me in jail in Germany for a LinkedIn
post so this is how much of a lunatic he
is um and then he had a
lawyer but these Fe but like I I you
know what I think I you know what I
think I honestly I think
like the the problem is
that even with this is this is my honest
you're going to get my you're gonna get
my Dutch bluntness now like go for it
with the even with the best intentions
I'm assume best intentions I I hear
everything that you're saying uh I'm
going to assume that people are
reasonable people and whatever agreement
they made with you that they that they
have some uh uh dignity to um um to do
that I think the problem now is whatever
the past is there just is it's one of
those things there just isn't there
there there isn't a world where where
it's there's also no like the problem
about m&a also right now is that like
there's no like why in an if you're
somebody crazy like me that's saying the
whole industry is dead um right you
basically get the CEO from Vox solution
called me by the way had an hour
conversation with that guy he's really
smart he kind of pinned the whole AI ke
on the aggregators and Enterprise large
Enterprise which is really an
interesting conversation you should have
a conversation with that guy he's
smarter than people think this is the
CEO of Vox but look you're right right
it's over but but he's but he's but but
he's right of course everybody knows
this robotic robotic autom robotic
accounts creation okay so AIT explains
yeah in like a in like a heartbeat it uh
it's very simple it's basically robotic
account creation on big Brands generates
SMS traffic the SMS traffic somewhere in
the chain in the value chain gets a
kickback from a carrier there is no way
that it otherwise works right because at
some point like people are not doing it
for fun so like you know there there's
money to be made so the only way this
works is that at the end you have a
carrier the carrier has to give some
sort of rev share on that messaging and
if you generate enough robotic accounts
then essentially you will make M you you
will you will make money and there's
almost no way to stop it
because there's like we we we like so so
you so it's like you you just you you
kind of can't get out of it what it will
do is and this is what they don't I mean
they don't give a [ __ ] because they're
the ones they're making all the money at
the moment and but like the what people
don't understand is that what they're
really doing is killing the industry
because it's like this is why if people
think legitimate companies are in this
space like there's no like there's no
benefit to a company like ours or cinch
or any of you know any of the legitimate
PLO or like any of these platforms have
no benefit to this because essentially
the more that this happens the more
distrust there comes to to SMS and you
already have the whole thing on SMS
where you like you know you can spoof
the you can basically intercept the
message if you're close enough to the to
the poll and like do that so it always
had it always had that negative uh
thought already but the benefit of it
was that it was fast and it always
worked so people misunderstand they go
OHS is so unsafe it's so unsafe but if
you know anything about security
security is not about risk exclusion
it's about risk management because
nothing is 100% secure what'sapp is like
you know so like look there there's
products there are products that are
coming out on the identity side that
would make the whole please don't start
talking about please don't start talking
me to me about this one company I I I
not a company it's not a company you
don't even know about [ __ ] there's a
company you don't know about and I'll
tell you Offline that just raised is
doing a huge raise and they've got
identity down to the Sim level to where
because some some companies look for the
mobile phone if you're using a mobile
phone they have no way of De of knowing
if you have a signal aot if you think
you have three bars and they know what
three bars is it means nothing because
they don't test networks down to the the
handset this company's been reverse
engineering it down to the handset and
has been testing with four of the five
biggest operators in the world four the
five biggest mobile operators in the
world are launching with this I'll tell
Will you hate me if I'm critical will
you hate me if I'm critical that doesn't
matter to me because I don't own I don't
okay so so this is so this is my view on
all these companies it's like I've heard
a thousand companies come up with with a
thousand different ways to do this the
problem is it's not about the solution
it's not that's not that's not
irrelevant Brands don't give a [ __ ]
you're going to get completely different
Technologies we talking the banks care
but yeah but they don't but but not but
not really because we have litigation
there there's there hearings going on
right now Australia is trying to say the
banks don't owe the money they're trying
to screw people out of 2.8 billion in
the US there's legislation right now is
coming on and they're G sols
the banks are gonna be liable and if the
banks are liable for the tens of
billions you're G to see Solutions yes
but not but not on a Telo level and the
reason is because not onco level is just
one level one aspect of it it's just s
swap it's all it is it solves s swap it
solves the ability to know if that's
actually you on the handset that did the
transaction it's just one RCS but R RCS
solves that problem WhatsApp solves that
problem Pass Key solves that problem not
entirely and I one more question on you
because look you're a lot smarter than
me you know this I I know this business
by accident so let me ask you a question
how do you see RCS and Google and apple
and and and coming in between the US
with the campaign registry so right now
you're in the US you want to get a
campaign uh you got to register with the
campaign registry what happens because
when I tried to buy the camp no there is
no Campa I'm saying I tried to buy the
campaign registry right right and I
don't know if you know this year I put
public we did press releases we went
after those criminals in Clair in Italy
they got away with Robin Millions
doesn't matter now bottom line is I I
met a senior guy at executive he wanted
to join our board because he told me
Google was gonna buy it the minute they
merg and do this thing with Apple so
apple and R RCS and apple come together
where do you see the campaign registry
why do you need
it you don't
exactly hey you don't no they're trying
to sell it right now for 200 plus
million dollar oh no right the industry
will what this is this is what's going
to happen one day one day they're all
going to wake up like get their get
their sleep out of their eyes it could
be like this and like holy [ __ ] [ __ ]
what happened and the industry will have
moved from left to right overnight yeah
yep there is no need there's no need
there's no need for hubs there's no need
for SMS there's no need for these things
aren't necessary anymore if you if you
are a preapproved or approved brand by
Apple or by Google or by the carrier and
they will probably do like if if you're
there is no there is no they're
bypassing all this technology I mean In
fairness to Google and I've been one of
I've been one of the biggest critical
people on on RCS they all hated me for a
long time because I never never wanted
to invest in it even though we have all
this Omni Channel stuff but I will give
it to them I will give it to them and my
reason was actually very simple it's not
that I didn't believe in the tech the
tech was always really good but I but
you need to distribution in order to
make the tech work so I didn't believe
in the distribution and without the
distribution you you you're not you're
not able to make the tech uh work with
the in with the interoperability with
apple you now have distribution so all
the carriers are playing ball every
single one of them in the most difficult
I mean uh us and I'll give you an
example us and cinch are the only two
companies in the world that are directly
connected to all the Singaporean care uh
carriers and you might think why is
Singapore so important all people don't
know is that Singapore has the highest
amount of messages per person uh in the
world so it has actually very low
penetration in terms of amounts of
people but it has extremely high amount
amount of messages so it's not actually
a small country um uh that that people
think no it's a very it's a very
important country altoe with uh uh money
between China and the US yeah but let
Rob finish let Robert finish so so in so
so what so what you're now getting is
that all the carriers are gonna are
going to play ball and you see it in
Europe you see it in Asia you see it in
the unit in United States it'll take a
little bit a while because RCS only work
on latest phones and updated Etc but
it's a but it's a but at the end of the
day like it's just it's a it's a sliding
scale right like every month every
quarter it will just go up and up and up
and up and the industry will move and
the interesting thing is if you go back
to our pricing strategy this is why
we're giving it away for free because
there is no more money the money is gone
what's going to happen is that carers
why do you need me you need me as an
abstraction layer across many different
channels that's what an aggregator would
say yeah so first you need exraction
layer across all the carriers around the
world well that industry is gone because
now you just have one connection to
Google and like you're you're you're
done so so that's so that's a sort of
Industry too then you have okay but now
you have multiple channels just three
fies WhatsApp other other channels great
but that's not really a high margin
business right because like now again
you're in like a compressing uh
compressing margin uh business in order
to do this so this business doesn't
exist and people will not realize it it
just doesn't exist so what we did is we
moved on to the application side with
all the experience that we have because
I do think that like being in this
industry and understanding all the
channels and all the complexity and all
the different like if you a file has to
be compressed on this channel to this
file size but on that one on that one
and you know there's so if you're a
brand you care about that stuff a lot
and security and and all that sort of
stuff so but it's about what you do with
a channel that's where the value is it's
where the value for us as a company is
the value for the brand is the value
Downstream in all of these like
different connections that was really
great business and I still love it to
death and I I don't want the industry to
die but it will die there is no industry
left and people need to start realizing
this that there is no indry left and
whatever like all these other companies
W Street wall Street's already wall
Street's realized that already they're
done wet of course but this is because
every industry analyst like also like I
don't I don't get a lot of views but
every industry Analyst at least reads
what I say and like it's but it's also
logical they they don't needed it up
because if they actually heard you and
understood you the big play here and the
podcast should read short everybody
which is what I did nine months ago and
I had IND is going all day long on a
free what do I think it's all short one
big short on a I I still be careful
about that like on a free cash flow
basis I would say that where they're
valued right now I don't think is like
they're not crazy overvalued because
it's it's it's the value right now I you
have cash in the bank it's where are
they going so you took a look you take a
look oh yeah you take a five so it's
it's a threee short long is what I'm
saying and and and they got a CFO in
there right now who a b en counter who
spent years working with Jeff emlet who
destroyed our greatest country in
company America GI what I'm on the
record I do not give investment
advice I am not an investment advisor
I'm not an investment advisor either but
look the writing's on the wall um the
whole industry is a short so you're
saying you and
cinch see this com what is cinch gonna
do I can't bad question I hope I hope I
I hope they one day I mean I definitely
hope one day I hope one day when you log
into if I was a cinch customer and I had
to go to that login screen and see 30
different brands to choose from to log
in for because nobody ever uh like
brought all the platforms together I
would just be like maybe they should
focus their first sorry I don't mean to
jab I don't I don't mean to jab them
look they don't care they made their
money you have to understand some these
guys made their money they hired they
they they they I I think I think what's
going to happen which is not something
that I would like but I think this is
what's going to happen my prediction
would be at some point these companies
are going to consolidate and it won't be
us I will guarantee you that I will go
into record and say I'm not buying any
of them I'm definitely not consolidating
with them Ian I don't have the I don't
have the money I don't I'm never giving
them any of my share like this will
never happen but like so I so I won't be
the one but I think if you're a large
public company or still a private
company
um I think what will happen is you will
consolidate into and they will create a
big group and there's some
anti-competitive there so I think the
problem I think the anti competitors at
meth when they wouldn't let you get
agreements that type mean I mean like I
mean like actual Regulators yeah not
fake ones it's funny how me is sitting
here telling us what to do in the US
isn't that amazing except they got
thrown out of the CTI event they thought
they were the gsma and the gsma has been
quite a bit of years but the gsma but if
you talk about look do leg organizations
in the world that we've always been a
member of and that I think are very very
respectful is gsma and itu right
numbering organization on the it side
and the gsma these are respectable
Telecom organizations that understand
Telco that don't go with the wave
they're not like they to like do
anything they also make their money and
they they charge you a lot and like it's
okay but they're respectful they're
respectable or uh respectable
organizations everybody around one more
question so er just this is like these
Awards sorry one more thing
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