How To NOT Get Screwed As A Software Engineer
Summary
TLDRThe video offers advice to technical people like engineers who may feel exploited at work, where business people get the credit and rewards. It advises evaluating your equity split, decision-making influence, work-life balance compared to counterparts, company trajectory, and opportunity cost. If dissatisfied, consider asking for more ownership, exploring other jobs that value you, or taking a temporary step back to advance your career. It reminds technical staff to know their worth while encouraging business leaders to appreciate and not exploit their teams.
Takeaways
- 😀 The video aims to help technical people avoid getting exploited in startups
- 😟 Non-technical founders often take much more equity than technical co-founders
- 😟 Technical people are often overworked compared to non-technical counterparts
- 🤔 Having a seat at the table in decision-making suggests you're valued
- 😃 Equal equity splits suggest you're a true partner, not just an employee
- 😟 Signs of a bad situation: no equity, decisions made without you, company not working
- 😃 Good signs: learning fast, valued by team, transparent expectations
- 👍 Ask directly for what you think you deserve - equity, decision rights, etc.
- 🚀 Leaving for a 'worse' job can set you up better long term
- 💡 Know your worth - technical skills are rare and valuable
Q & A
What are some common roles or situations where technical people can get exploited?
-Some common roles and situations include: technical co-founders at startups, lead engineers at scaling companies, early engineers at early-stage startups, college student interns, and engineers at big tech companies who do a lot of the work that others get credit and promotions for.
What is an example of an unfair equity split between technical and non-technical founders?
-An unfair split would be if there are 2 founders, and the non-technical business founder has 90% equity while the technical founder has 10% or less. Often there is no good justification for this beyond the business founder being a tougher negotiator.
What should an early employee look for in terms of equity compensation?
-An early employee taking on the role of a technical co-founder should look to get an equity share that is life-changing if the company succeeds - not just a pat on the back and a small bonus. Even if less than the founders, it should be meaningful.
How can you tell if a googler is getting a fair deal or not?
-Consider work-life balance and overall compensation compared to the intense effort put in. If working long hours to produce work that benefits management's career growth more than your own, with little work-life balance, it may be unfair.
What are signs you may lack influence or a seat at the table?
-Signs include not being invited to key meetings where decisions happen and having your work dictated by non-technical management without input into priorities or process.
How can you self-diagnose if the business is working or not?
-Look at the hard data - are you growing users, revenue, engagement as expected? Does the evidence match what leadership says about how things are going? Trust the data.
What are signs you may be in a good, fair situation?
-Signs include: feeling you have the best risk-reward deal available, having responsibility and learning opportunities, and working just as hard as co-founders and peers (everyone feels invested).
If expectations were set clearly upfront, does that mean you cannot be exploited?
-No. However, if expectations are set accurately about workload and opportunity ahead of time, it provides more context about what you signed up for - you may be working hard but cannot claim you were misled.
What can you do if you think you are being exploited?
-Options: Ask for more equity or responsibility, explore other jobs where your skills may be better valued, take a step back to switch companies/roles to advance long-term prospects.
What advice does Michael give business partners about treating technical talent fairly?
-Be honest and upfront about expectations. Make decisions that get your team excited and feel invested for the long term. Don't just exploit valuable skills for near term gain.
Outlines
😊 Who the video is for and why we feel bad for technical people
This paragraph introduces who the video is aimed at - technical co-founders, engineers at scaling companies, early employees, college students, and googlers who do most of the work. It explains that often these technical people get exploited or ripped off, which the hosts see in applications to YC, and they want to help avoid that by providing questions to determine if they're being treated well.
😕 Questions to determine if you have enough equity
This paragraph advises technical people to examine their equity stake and ask if it makes sense based on their contributions and responsibilities. Often technical co-founders get much less equity than business founders with no good justification. Early employees also routinely get little equity despite providing immense value.
😃 Signs of a good situation for technical people
This paragraph discusses indications that a technical person is in a good situation - they feel they're getting the best risk/reward deal possible, they have a lot of responsibility and opportunity to learn quickly, and they set their expectations accurately by being very transparent upfront about the challenges.
😯 What to do if you suspect you're being exploited
This paragraph advises technical people who think they may be getting exploited to examine their other opportunities and consider changing jobs or starting their own company to have more decision-making power. Before that, ask for more responsibility in your current role.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Equity
💡Co-founder
💡Engineer
💡Effort level
💡Work-life balance
💡Opportunity cost
💡Expectation setting
💡Network
💡Agency
💡Value
Highlights
Technical people are often exploited and ripped off by business people
Non-technical founders often take way more equity than technical co-founders
Early employees often get very little equity despite critical contributions
Technical co-founders should have close to equal equity as non-technical founders
Essential engineers should get enough equity to make life-changing money if successful
College interns often get no equity despite doing lots of the work
Decisions shouldn't be made without input from technical team members
Counterparts should put in similar effort levels
Trust your judgement if the evidence shows things aren't working
Don't let others convince you bad situations are actually good
Great teams have honest expectation setting
Take responsibility to earn a seat at the table
Consider other jobs and locations that value you more
Ask directly for more equitable treatment
Sometimes take a step back to take two steps forward
Transcripts
funniest thing is this one of the
technical person who does all the work
is the one actually reading the
analytics and like hey like this our
launch bombed what's the plan in the
don't worry about it this is like you
need to be quiet this is my department
you know stop asking
[Music]
questions all right this is Dalton plus
Michael and today we're going to talk
about how to not get screwed as a
software
engineer interesting yeah tips you know
we've we've noticed that a lot of the of
technical folks sometimes get exploited
they kind of get ripped off by other
folks evil business people yeah it's
kind of a bad pattern and so we're gonna
we're going to talk about it so who is
this aimed at Michael who is this video
for the the folks we're talking to so
we're talking to maybe you're a
technical co-founder at a startup right
now um maybe you are a great engineer at
a scaling up
company the guy that everyone comes to
the person who y always gets fixed the
woman who's always up late getting those
text messages and having to yeah or or
you're at a really early stage startup
yes but you're not a Founder a
co-founder you're like a lead engineer
or head of engineering or there's some
title yes and the whole company is like
three people yeah but you're not a
Founder you're not a Founder okay there
is the college student who all the mbas
go to to build their prototype yep um um
and then there's the googler right how
did you describe it it's the person that
does the work that other people take
credit for yes to get promoted promoted
in bonuses yes it's the person that does
the you know actually producing the
products that a lot of people stick
their career on yes yes yes yes so
that's who we're talking
yeah so I think the thing that we're
trying
to really help you with is yeah we feel
bad for you so so this this comes up a
lot um for us at YC where we read a lot
of applications and we interview a lot
of companies and we see folks where it's
pretty clear what's going on we can see
it a mile away in the application that
someone is getting exploited or ripped
off and it's usually the technical
person yes right and it feels bad to see
just all of these applications come in
yes and it's Crystal Clear what's going
on yes and so this is for you yes we
would like to give you some questions to
ask yourself to figure out whether
you're being treated well or not and I
think that to be clear we don't want to
presuppose right there are a lot of
people who are in great
situations um we just want to give you
some tools so let's talk about Equity um
what are the questions people should ask
themselves about whether they have
enough equity Equity at all this comes
up a lot I know you a big proponent of
this Michael but in general something
like equal Equity is pretty common um
for startups that apply to to YC and is
something we recommend and sort of the
anti- pattern we might see is say
there's two Founders and the
non-technical business founder has 90%
And the technical person has 10% or less
and the explanation is basically just
that the business founder had sharper
elbow negotiate it was a better nego
like there's actually no justification
for this it was my idea yeah okay right
and so there's really no good reason
it's just that the business guy gets
more for whatever case yes and usually
in those situations you endend up with
something much closer to even again you
give this advice how how do you explain
this when this happens I I always just
think that like the vast majority of the
journey is ahead of you not behind you
and you want your co-founders to feel
like owners and partners Y and I always
think about you know in the early days
of our
company on Sunday night when the website
went down I couldn't fix it and so we're
going to live in one of two worlds the
world where I get text and I have to
like cajo people to fix it or the world
where everyone feels like an owner and
they get text and they wake up and they
fix it right and I think a lot of people
just don't understand that if you can
make people inherently motivated they'll
do far better work than if you
yell at them so that's the that's the
that's the the founder you know do you
have close to equal Equity yeah what
does your Equity look like and does it
make sense like is the justification for
whatever your Equity is does it make
sense to you based on what you bring to
the T and based on your actual
responsibilities now what about the
early
employee well the early employee
notoriously kind of gets hosed on this
stuff especially if they're providing
the work of an equal technical
co-founder yet they get 1% or less of
the company again this is very common
where you'll have two business Founders
three business Founders you know yes and
then they'll have someone that's you
know lead engineer that is effectively
technical co-founder technical
co-founder and they get like
1% not great yes not great that's not a
good pattern um I would say if you're in
the scaleup and you are the essential
engineer the test I would kind of ask
myself is is if this thing works are you
going to make a life-changing amount of
money and you know I would argue that
like you know that doesn't mean you
necessarily should have as much Equity
as the founders or you're going to have
as much Equity as someone who came in
early but it does mean that like if this
thing actually IPOs or gets bought and
you get like p on the back and like you
know a nice Christmas
bonus probably you're not in the right
situation yeah all right that next group
um the googler I think this one's
actually much more interesting because I
would argue that if you're the
googler you're getting a bad deal if
you're doing like a 100h hour weeks and
grinding yep and like your boss or your
boss's boss is getting like Mega
vacation and $10 million a year packages
and like promotions and da D I would say
on the flip side though like if you got
good work life balance and yeah I think
it's risk award this is a subtle point
that Michael's making I think it's for
the opportunity cost that you're taking
to not do something else yes are you
getting a square deal versus if again if
you're working really really really hard
perhaps another thing would be better
yes but if you're if you're very happy
with the trade you're making on work
life balance compensation hey man maybe
good yeah it could be great for you yeah
you know and then I guess you know last
but not least is the college student who
like in most cases even isn't even
offered Equity like that's like you know
they're just they're just the typer
you're the intern yeah you're our
technical intern just do all of the work
do the thing we're just the idea guys
yes yes so Equity is one set of topics
you can ask yourself in these roles
another one and one that you brought up
was kind of decision-making pro pro
process like okay we've established that
you are doing a lot of the work yeah
it's basically do you have a seat at the
table and so again if you're trying to
self- diagnose am I being exploited um
as an engineer as a technical person is
the whole point that the business people
have a lot of meetings that you're not
invited to and all decisions about
everything are made by the business
people and you are basically used as a
robot to write code yes probably not a
great sign probably a sign that you are
you might be being exploited right
you're being used as um yes like a
machine to write code and not a person
with a brain I think the the next thing
you should be thinking about is kind of
effort level you know are you working
these crazy hours but everyone's on
vacation in Aruba half the time right
are your counterparts who are doing
fundraising and sales and HR and all the
other tasks within the company are they
grinding or are they not yep like this
is a self- diagnosis thing but but it's
really sad when you see someone in the
world of technical co-founder and they
really have to work their butt off and
they're really showing up every day yes
and the idea guy or the salesperson or
the business Expert the fundraising
expert yeah actually isn't doing much
sometimes they're part-time sometimes
they're part you and man that is such a
vector for being exploited and so you
should really feel from a self-
diagnosis perspective that yeah
counterparts are just as into it and
there's just as much heart that they're
bringing to the table as you are and if
so again maybe you're maybe it's a great
deal for you yeah um I think that the
the last two are kind of connected this
kind of like is it working SL
opportunity cost right like one would
argue that like um you because you're
doing all this work have an amazing
ability to judge whether the company's
working yep and um you should maybe
trust your instincts there Y and you
know is it working right like you might
be exploited if you're being asked to do
all this stuff and like the evidence is
painfully obvious it's not working well
and you're the technical person so you
notice the first the funniest thing is
this one of the technical person who
does all the work is the one actually
reading the analytics like hey like this
our launch bombed what's the plan and
The Bu don't worry about it this is like
you need to be quiet this is my
department you know stop asking
questions and so so if it just seems
like you're bringing your aame effort
and doing all of the work yes and it's
definitely not working yes probably
might be a sign you're being exploited
well and this is even more of the case
that the opportunity cost might not be
worth it yep or you might be not leaving
because you're afraid but you know
intellectually this thing isn't working
yep all right so and like don't let them
finesse you again this is the the the
same person that convinced you that you
getting you know one tenth of their
Equity is a great deal for you is the
ones like hey I know it looks like we're
not growing and we have no revenue and
we're about to run out of money but I
got this fine like don't let that same
swaave
person keep doing the same move on you
over and over again yeah it's it's weird
because I never Ed the term gaslighting
but it is G it's actually gaslighting
it's actually that okay so I don't want
to paint too bad of a picture because on
the flip side we see situations that are
great yeah more often than not you know
the folks we F yeah the folks we fund
it's mostly like a really awesome trade
so let's talk about situations where
like things are going well right like
you signs that this is great I think one
sign is from an opportunity cost
perspective you realize that you're at
the best possible place in the world for
the risk reward ratio yes and whether
however you're being comped yes you're
like wow I'm getting a smoking deal and
I know there's no better deal I can be
doing doing and I proud I feel
privileged to be working on this team I
am because they care just as much like
if everyone feels like they're getting a
great deal that's a sign of a good
culture yeah I also think if you feel
like you're being given a lot of
responsibility you have a lot of
opportunity to learn yep I think most
people don't realize that
like you can learn at a startup Pace or
you can learn at a Google pace and like
I startup is an amazing opportunity to
learn so if you're getting better faster
than your peers who are in big Tech
you might be getting a really good deal
um especially we see this a lot with
people who learn a ton and then they go
start their own company yep and it's
like well that startup was incredible
for you even if it didn't work get rich
from it that was like the best education
you could have ever gotten and we see
this also with immigration like
sometimes that startup or that company
is getting you to the country you want
to be in or getting you the Visa like
it's great deal that might be getting
you a great deal so that's like a really
really big thing um I also think there's
this element of like you're not
exploited if you're part of the problem
yes again this is a subtle Point let's
see if we can explain it it's
basically if it's not working and you
have a seat at the table it's on you man
yes yes like you can't just blame hey
business guy you're not pulling your
weight because no one wants our thing
but if you have a seene at the table
you're if you have equal Equity with
someone and you have a seat at the table
in decision making just because it's not
working doesn't mean you get the right
to blame other people no that's not cool
you know and I think the last one that I
will say is like um and this is a
slightly dangerous one but like when
people are honest with you and it turns
out to be that way when people are like
this is going to be the hardest job
you've ever done and then it turns out
that you're working like crazy like when
the team you're coming into is extremely
upfront with you about how it's going to
be and it turns out that way and it's
not good it's not necessarily you're
being exploited like you made that
choice yeah you chose that that's a
really great Point man
like think about um expectation setting
when you take any job yes or when you go
to school yes the people the the great
professors or teachers or bosses it's
not that they tell you it's going to be
easy it's that they tell you what's
going to happen yes and they're right
they're honest and and you're like wow I
really respect that you set my
expectations well and I knew what I was
walking into and so again you're if
someone did an A+ job of expectation
setting you can't really hold you can't
argue that they're exploiting you or
that this is like not what you signed up
for no right no all right so I suspect
I'm in a bad situation what do I do to
fix it if you think you might be in a
bad situation I would look at what are
the other opport opportunities that
you're taking an opportunity cost from
doing so for instance if you're at the
big tech company and other people are
getting tons of promotions because if
you're at work you probably are pretty
well undervalued and you could be
learning more and so I would explore
starting your own company or going to
working somewhere else y if you really
want that seat at the table my guess is
you could find a job where you have way
more a seat at the table when you're
doing decision- making well I I'll say a
step you could do even before that you
can ask for a seat at the table that's
true I remember there was this great
employee at at uh Justin TV this guy
named Tim and he was
disgruntled because the company wasn't
doing
well and
as disgruntled as he was he actually
would do the work to come up with ideas
and to point out things that were wrong
and to create fixes and like he took
ownership and what was interesting is
that as he took ownership he was given
ownership so it wasn't this weird it
wasn't like oh like you're not at the
table it's like come up with the smart
ideas maybe maybe you do have a maybe
you are at the table and you're just not
participating y or taking
responsibility that's a great point and
we see this with Equity splits because
often sometimes it'll just be hey have
you all thought about maybe like or how
did you come up with the equity split
like well it's you know 9010 well why
well it's my idea well you know most of
the work is ahead of you not behind you
what if you went like equal people are
like okay yeah fine it's actually not
that hard to fix the stuff sometimes
shockingly it's just they've never had
the conversation exactly they almost
expected the business person to do right
by them or like gave up their like
agency all and it's like no you have
agency like and then I'll say you know
another thing is location like sometimes
you're in a place where your work is
invalu yep and there are other places
where your work could be valued more
whether that's geographic location
company that's a great Point um and I
think the last one that I observe a lot
is that sometimes you have to take a
step backwards to take two steps forward
so like maybe you're stuck in a bad job
and like you have a lot of
responsibility but you're not being
given good compensation ation you might
have to go switch jobs into a place
where you have less opportunity less
less responsibility but better
compensation you can develop a better
Network um maybe you have to move maybe
you have to take risks yeah like like
maybe you have to do something that
doesn't feel like you have the perfect
next thing on your resume because it
sets you up two day two moves down the
line right I think sometimes people are
like look at their careers very linearly
instead of saying like it's the end that
matter right it's like can I retire
raise my kids D and like maybe the path
to get there isn't just this linear step
by step so anyways what would be your
last parting piece of advice for someone
Su spe in this world look technical
people know your
worth and if you're a really nice person
those are the people that tend to get
ripped off the most follow our handy
checklist and find a place where you're
appreciated and valued the way you
should be because because you have this
amazing rare skill and for those
business people listening to
this don't exploit folks be honest be
upfront right like make decisions that
they're going to that your people you
work with are going to be excited about
today but also tomorrow cuz like if that
amazing Tech person leaves your company
you're
all right d great jat
thanks
[Music]
[Music]
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