The Story of Snapdragon X Elite
Summary
TLDR视频脚本讲述了高通Snapdragon X Elite芯片的起源和发展。从苹果公园开始,讨论了苹果如何从三星转向自家设计的A4芯片,并逐渐成为无晶圆厂半导体公司。接着介绍了Nuvia的成立,其创始团队的背景,以及高通对Nuvia的收购。X Elite芯片的硬件配置,包括CPU、GPU和NPU的性能指标,以及与Windows for ARM的兼容性问题。最后,提出了对X Elite芯片性能的期待和疑问,以及它将如何面对激烈的市场竞争。
Takeaways
- 🍎 故事从苹果公司在库比蒂诺的Apple Park开始,这里也是高通Snapdragon X Elite CPU核心最初构想的地点。
- 📱 苹果公司在创建第一代iPhone时,需要一种新型芯片来满足带有大触摸屏的移动电话的需求,因此与三星合作设计并制造了最初的iPhone SoCs。
- 💰 2008年,苹果为了获得更多芯片设计的控制权,以2.78亿美元收购了P.A. Semi,随后设计了其首款自研SoC:Apple A4。
- 🛠️ 2010年,苹果收购了Intrinsity及其Fast14电子设计自动化软件,这使得苹果能够实现动态逻辑设计,提升芯片性能。
- 🚀 苹果A6芯片标志着苹果自研CPU核心的新时代,不再使用ARM的CPU核心授权,而是构建了基于修改版ARMv7-A架构的定制CPU。
- 🔧 苹果通过购买ARM的架构许可,获得了更多自由和控制权,从而设计出了基于ARM指令集架构的自定义CPU。
- 🤖 2019年,一些前苹果芯片架构师创立了Nuvia公司,该公司的创始人在苹果的硅片发展历程中扮演了重要角色。
- 💼 Nuvia的Phoenix CPU核心架构旨在实现最高单线程性能和世界级能效,但后来高通以14亿美元收购了Nuvia,并将Phoenix架构纳入未来的Snapdragon SoCs。
- 🤖 Snapdragon X Elite是一款完整的系统级芯片,结合了CPU、GPU、NPU以及显示引擎、5G调制解调器等,采用4nm工艺制造。
- 🔄 Snapdragon X Elite的CPU,代号'Oryon',包含12个核心,分为3个集群,每个集群有4个核心,基于Nuvia的Phoenix架构。
- 🔧 Snapdragon X Elite的GPU支持完整的DX12,NPU提供高达45 TOPS的INT8性能,内存系统支持LPDDR5X-8448。
- 🤔 尽管Snapdragon X Elite的规格看起来很有潜力,但我们对实际的硅片架构和在Windows上的性能知之甚少,微软对Windows for ARM的优化能力也存在疑问。
Q & A
苹果公司最初为何需要设计新的芯片来满足iPhone的需求?
-当苹果公司创建第一代iPhone时,需要一种新型芯片来满足具有大触摸屏的移动电话的需求。由于苹果不是芯片设计公司,他们必须与第三方合作,最终选择了三星来设计和制造最初的iPhone系统芯片(SoC)。
苹果公司是何时开始设计自家的SoC的?
-苹果公司在2008年收购了Palo Alto Semiconductor,也就是P.A. Semi,之后开始设计自家的SoC,并推出了第一款自家设计的SoC——Apple A4。
苹果公司是如何获得ARM架构的CPU核心的?
-苹果公司最初是通过直接授权ARM提供的预构建设计,例如Cortex CPU。后来,苹果购买了ARM架构许可,这使得他们能够基于ARM指令集架构构建自己的CPU,例如A6中的'Swift'核心。
Nuvia公司是由哪些前苹果公司芯片架构师创立的?
-Nuvia是由Gerard Williams、Manu Gulati和John Bruno三位前苹果公司芯片架构师创立的。他们在苹果公司工作期间对苹果的CPU和SoC发展做出了重大贡献。
高通公司为何收购Nuvia?
-高通公司在2021年3月以14亿美元收购了Nuvia,目的是为了将Nuvia的Phoenix CPU架构整合到未来的Snapdragon SoC中。
Snapdragon X Elite的CPU核心是基于什么架构的?
-Snapdragon X Elite的CPU核心基于Nuvia的Phoenix架构,这是由Nuvia的工程师团队开发的服务器级SoC 'Orion'的核心架构。
Snapdragon X Elite的GPU性能如何?
-Snapdragon X Elite集成的Adreno GPU支持完整的DX12,能够达到4.6 TFLOPS的计算能力,高通声称其性能比AMD的Phoenix APU高出80%。
Snapdragon X Elite的NPU性能如何?
-Snapdragon X Elite集成的Hexagon NPU能够提供高达45 TOPS的INT8性能,高通表示这足以本地运行具有130亿参数的Llama 2模型。
Snapdragon X Elite支持哪种类型的内存?
-Snapdragon X Elite支持LPDDR5X-8448类型的内存,这是一种高速低功耗的内存技术。
Snapdragon X Elite的CPU主频是多少?
-Snapdragon X Elite的CPU核心在全核工作负载时的主频为3.4GHz,在顶级SKU的两个核心上可以达到4.2GHz的加速频率。
ARM为何会对高通和Nuvia提起诉讼?
-ARM认为Nuvia最初是为服务器设计CPU架构,这是一种比高通正在开发的移动SoC更低销量的产品,因此Nuvia有不同的许可条款。这场诉讼目前仍在进行中。
Snapdragon X Elite面临的主要竞争对手有哪些?
-Snapdragon X Elite将与Intel的Lunar Lake、AMD的Zen 5 Strix Point APUs以及苹果的M4等产品竞争,这些产品都采用了先进的制程技术和架构设计。
Snapdragon X Elite能否使Windows for ARM成为一个可行的选择?
-尽管Snapdragon X Elite拥有一流的CPU架构设计,但其最终能否使Windows for ARM成为一个可行的选择还取决于微软对Windows for ARM的优化能力以及实际的硅片性能。
Outlines
🍎 苹果与高通骁龙X Elite的起源
本段讲述了苹果公司在库比蒂诺的Apple Park开始的故事,以及其与高通骁龙X Elite处理器的联系。苹果为满足初代iPhone的需求,与三星合作设计了首款移动SoC。随后,苹果收购了P.A. Semi以设计自家芯片,并推出了首款SoC A4。苹果不断扩展其芯片设计能力,最终推出了具有革命性的M1芯片。同时,一些前苹果芯片架构师创立了Nuvia公司,专注于服务器CPU设计,但后来苹果对Nuvia提起诉讼,指控其挖角苹果人才。
🌌 Nuvia的创立与高通的收购
Nuvia由前苹果高级芯片架构师创立,他们拥有丰富的ARM架构设计经验。Nuvia的目标是开发一款高性能、高能效的服务器级SoC 'Orion',其CPU核心架构名为'Phoenix'。Nuvia在技术演示中声称Phoenix架构的性能将是竞争对手的两倍,同时不增加功耗。然而,高通在2021年以14亿美元收购了Nuvia,计划将Phoenix架构整合到未来的骁龙SoC中,这标志着X Elite故事的开始。
🔍 高通骁龙X Elite的硬件与软件之谜
骁龙X Elite是一款集成了CPU、GPU、NPU的系统级芯片,采用4nm工艺制造。CPU基于Nuvia的Phoenix架构,包含12个核心,分为三个集群,每个集群4个核心。GPU为Adreno系列,支持DX12,性能据称超过AMD的Phoenix APU达80%。Hexagon NPU提供高达45 TOPS的INT8性能。内存系统支持LPDDR5X-8448。尽管X Elite具备成为优秀SoC的所有要素,但关于其CPU架构的具体细节高通并未透露太多,性能声明也未经独立验证。此外,X Elite将运行Windows for ARM,但微软对ARM的支持历史并不成功,因此对X Elite的实际性能和软件兼容性存在疑问。
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Apple Park
💡Snapdragon X Elite
💡ARM
💡P. A. Semi
💡Nuvia
💡SoC
💡Phoenix
💡LPDDR5X-8448
💡Windows for ARM
💡性能
💡诉讼
Highlights
故事从苹果公园开始,这里是高通骁龙X Elite CPU核心最初想法的诞生地。
苹果为满足初代iPhone的需求,与三星合作设计并制造了首款SoC芯片。
苹果为了获得芯片设计的更多控制权,收购了P.A. Semi公司。
苹果推出了首款自研SoC A4,使用ARM的Cortex CPU核心和PowerVR图形处理器。
苹果通过收购Intrinsity和Fast14 EDA工具,加强了芯片的动态逻辑设计。
苹果A6芯片标志着苹果不再使用ARM的CPU核心,而是自建定制CPU 'Swift'。
苹果拥有ARM架构许可,可以基于ARM指令集架构设计自己的CPU。
Nuvia由前苹果芯片架构师创立,目标是设计高性能、高能效的服务器级CPU。
高通以14亿美元收购Nuvia,计划将Nuvia的Phoenix CPU架构整合到未来的骁龙SoC中。
骁龙X Elite是基于4nm工艺制造的完整系统级芯片,包含CPU、GPU、NPU等。
X Elite的CPU基于Nuvia的Phoenix架构,采用12核心设计,分为3个集群。
X Elite的GPU支持DX12,性能据称超过AMD的Phoenix APU达80%。
X Elite的Hexagon NPU提供高达45 TOPS的INT8性能,能够运行大型AI模型。
X Elite支持LPDDR5X-8448内存,但与去年公布的LPDDR5X-8533有所降低。
尽管X Elite的硬件规格令人印象深刻,但实际的CPU架构和性能表现仍不明确。
X Elite将运行Windows for ARM,但微软对ARM的优化能力令人怀疑。
X Elite将面临激烈的竞争,包括Intel的Lunar Lake、AMD的Zen 5以及苹果的M4。
尽管存在疑问,但许多人对X Elite抱有期待,希望它能使Windows on ARM成为一个可行的选择。
Transcripts
The story begins here, at Apple Park in Cuppertino. Not where you would expect a story
about Qualcomm's Snapdragon X Elite to start. But it's likely the very place where first ideas,
of what would much later become the CPU cores of the X Elite, originated. Although
I have to be careful with my words, because this question already started a lawsuit once before.
When Apple created the original iPhone, a new type of chip was needed to meet the demands of
a mobile phone with a large touchscreen. Since Apple wasn't a chip design company,
they had to work with a 3rd party, and they choose Samsung. Samsung designed and
manufactured the initial iPhone SoCs, which combined ARM CPU cores with PowerVR graphics.
But Apple wanted more control over their chips, which is why they acquired Palo Alto Semiconductor
in 2008, better known as P. A. Semi, for $278 million. With the newly acquired chip design team,
Apple went right to work and designed its first in-house SoC: the Apple A4.
The A4 was very similar to the previous chips designed by Samsung. It still used
Cortex CPU cores from ARM, PowerVR graphics and Samsung continued to handle the manufacturing,
mostly in Samsungs FAB in Austin, Texas. Which is especially relevant today, with all the talk
about bringing manufacturing back to the US. Early iPhone SoCs were US designed and made.
In 2010 Apple acquired another semiconductor company, called Intrinsity and with it their
Fast14 electronic design automation software. The acquisition of these EDA tools allowed Apple
to implement dynamic logic designs which increased the performance characteristics
of their chip. Apple was quickly becoming a fabless semiconductor company and after just
two generations of in-house SoCs, the Apple A6 ushered in a new era. For the first time ever,
Apple didn't license CPU cores from ARM, but instead build a custom CPU,
code-named "Swift", based on a modified ARMv7-A architecture.
There are two ways to get access to a ARM based CPU. The most common way is to directly license
one of the pre-build designs that ARM offers, for example a Cortex CPU. But you can go one step
further and get a architecture license, which allows you to build your own CPU, based on the
proprietary ARM instruction set architecture. This type of license is more expensive,
but gives you more freedom and control. And Apple did just that, they bought a architecture license
from ARM and the "Swift" cores inside the A6 were the result of this new design direction. And
before you ask - yes - this is still a video about Qualcomm's Snapdragon X Elite. Just bare with me.
The A6 was a inflection point for Apple and jump started the domination of Apple
silicon in the years to come. Apple invested heavily into their chip design department,
attracting and forming many of the world's top ARM chip architects. With each new generation,
Apple silicon further increased its lead over the competition.
Building on that success, Apple started to increase the scope of its SoC designs,
going from smartphone to laptops and eventually desktop grade chips. I'm sure everyone watching
this video knows how big of a leap the Apple M1 generation really was. Apple's ARM based
CPU architectures dominate not only in performance, but also in efficiency.
But chips aren't created out of thin air,
Apple had a lot of very talented engineers. And while working for Apple certainly has its perks,
some of these engineers wanted to create more complex designs, specifically server focused CPUs.
In early 2019, a couple of former Apple chip architects founded a company called Nuvia. Gerard
Williams, Nuvia's new CEO, was previously Senior Director for Platform Architecture at Apple,
where he worked from 2010 up until he founded Nuvia in 2019. He started working at Apple
just before the launch of the A4 and left when the M1 design was already finished. He
was one of the major architects behind Apple's entire CPU and SoC development for nine years.
Manu Gulati, also a founder at Nuvia, joined Apple in 2009 and was the lead
SoC architect starting with the A5X all the way up to the A12X. He left Apple in 2017,
for a short two year stay at Google's SoC department, before co-founding Nuvia. John Bruno,
the third co-founder, also worked at Apple from 2012 to 2017 as a systems
architect. He also had a short one and half year stay a Google before starting Nuvia.
As you can see, all three Nuvia founders were major players in Apple's silicon
journey and had extensive experience and knowledge of how to design a world class
ARM architecture. Of course Nuvia had many more talented employees aside of the three founders,
a lot of them with a Apple or ARM background.
Apple didn't like that at all. Losing chip design talent to a new startup hurts. And
Apple responded, with a lawsuit, alleging that founder and CEO Gerad Williams was plotting
to form Nuvia and poach Apple talent while still working at Cuppertino. A pretty serious allegation
but also very difficult to proof, especially since California doesn't allow any kind of
non-compete contracts. This lawsuit continued for over three years until it was dropped by
Apple in early 2023. By that time, Nuvia didn't exist any more, but more on that in just a bit.
Back at Nuvia, the engineers started working on their first product,
a server grade SoC called "Orion" and its custom ARM CPU core architecture,
code-named "Phoenix". Nuvia's goals for Phoenix were very straight forward:
achieve the highest single-thread performance and world class energy efficiency at the same
time. Very ambitious to say the least. But with such a experienced team behind these claims,
the start-up money came pouring in. Nuvia raised $53 million in its series A and $240 million in
a series B round. They had the talent and now they also had the funding to achieve their goals.
In August of 2020, Nuvia's John Bruno published an article about Phoenix and shared early performance
indications. Compared to the competition, which at the time included AMD's Zen 2,
Intel's Sunny Cove, Apple's A13 Bionic and Qualcomms Snapdragon 865, Nuvia claimed that
its Phoenix architecture would be twice as fast without increasing power consumption.
It's interesting that Nuvia compared a server CPU with mobile and laptop chips,
but it didn't make these claims any less impressive. Nuvia was on track
to deliver a world class CPU architecture that might even be ahead of the competition.
And then everything changed. In March 2021, just two years after it was founded,
Qualcomm bought Nuvia for $1.4 billion. The goal of the acquisition? Implementing
Nuvias Phoenix CPU architecture into future Snapdragon SoCs. And with the X Elite, that
future is finally here. Now you know why the story of the X Elite begins in Cuppertino.
I think it's important to know the backstory of the X Elite, because it plays a major role
in why there's so much hype surrounding it. Qualcomm already designs amazing CPU cores,
but with the acquisition of Nuvia and the adoption of Phoenix into Snapdragon,
there's a real possibility to not only catch up to Apple's M-chips in terms of performance
and efficiency, but to potentially outclass it. The talent and experience is certainly there.
But before we take a look at the hardware of the Snapdragon X Elite and talk about
some of its mysteries, there's another lawsuit to talk about,
that started right after Qualcomm bought Nuvia. And no, it wasn't Apple this time - it was ARM.
Now you might wonder why ARM would sue Qualcomm and Nuvia, it's a head scratcher for sure. Just
like Apple, Nuvia had a ARM architecture license, which allowed them to design their custom Phoenix
CPU cores. And the same is true for Qualcomm, another long term ARM customer with a full
architecture license. ARM's reasoning is that Nuvia was initially designing a CPU architecture
for servers, which is a much lower volume product than the mobile SoCs Qualcomm is working on and
thus Nuvia had very different licensing terms. The litigation is still ongoing at the moment.
But enough about the origins of the X Elite and lawsuits,
let's take a look at the hardware you've been hearing so much about.
The Snapdragon X Elite is a complete system-on-a-chip, like previous Snapdragon
variants and combines CPU, GPU and NPU with MISC areas like display engines, a 5G modem and of
course I/O. It's manufactured in a 4nm process node, most likely TSMCs N4P and while we don't
have a official die-size, Semiaccurate reports they have measured about 170 to 180mm², which
puts it in line with AMD's Phoenix (not the Nuvia one), Intel's Meteor Lake-M and above Apple's M3,
which sits at sub 150mm². The new M4 chip that Apple just announced might be pretty close
is size. The die-size of the X Elite leaves no doubt, we are looking at a true laptop class SoC.
The CPU inside the X Elite, code-named "Oryon" with a "y", contains 12 cores divided into three
clusters with 4 cores each. The cores are based on Nuvia's Phoenix architecture, tho I'm sure
some changes to the original vision have been made since the acquisition, because a server focused
architecture has different design targets than a low-power laptop SoC. The X Elite only has one
CPU core type and does not combine performance and efficiency cores, like most other ARM based CPUs.
Knowing the story behind the X Elite, it does make sense, because Nuvia's Phoenix was a single
performance core design and didn't include smaller E-cores, that's why the X Elite only uses P-cores.
Qualcomm didn't share much about the cache system, other than the total size of 42MB,
most likely a combination of L2 and L3 cache. But we do know that the L2 cache
is shared between each 4-core CPU cluster, since the lower tier Snapdragon X Plus,
which comes with two cores disabled, has the same 42MB of cache. If the L2 cache would be
core exclusive, two less cores would result in less cache, which clearly isn't the case here.
The CPU cores clock between 3.4GHz for all-core workloads and up to 4.2GHz for two cores on
the top end SKU. Last year, at the initial reveal, Qualcomm talked about up to 4.3GHz,
which means the boost clock has decreased by 100MHz since then,
indicating the yield wasn't good enough to hit 4.3GHz on the required number of chips.
The integrated Adreno GPU supports full DX12, can reach up to 4.6 TFLOPS and according to
Qualcomm is outperforming AMD's Phoenix APU by up to 80%. There's not much to add here,
we'll have to wait for independent reviews to confirm these claims.
Qualcomm shared a bit more on the integrated Hexagon NPU that delivers up to 45 TOPS of INT8.
According to Qualcomm that's enough to locally run the 13 billion parameter model of Llama 2,
which would be very cool indeed. And it would be faster than the NPUs in Meteor Lake,
Phoenix and even Apple's M4, tho Lunar Lake and AMD's Zen
5 APUs will likely catch up or even outperform the X Elite in this area.
Last, but certainly not least, there's the memory system. Both the 12-core X Elite and it's little
brother, the 10-core X Plus, support LPDDR5X-8448. And if that sounds like a strange number to you,
you are right. Last year, at the initial preview, Qualcomm stated that the X Elite
would support LPDDR5X-8533, so we've got another clock speed downgrade in addition the
drop in CPU boost. And while it certainly won't have a big impact on performance,
it's another strange development. My guess is that the memory controller wasn't good enough to handle
8533 MT/s and the downgrade to the strange number of 8448 MT/s was made in order to increase yield.
Looking at the specs of the X Elite we can see all the ingredients that make a great SoC,
but at the same time we know very little about the actual architecture. It's a 12-core CPU in
3 clusters with 4 cores each and 42MB of cache. L2 and L3 cache seem to be shared. But there is
nothing more concrete about the actual CPU architecture. How wide the CPU is, how many
stages, specific IPC numbers, boost behavior. Qualcomm is keeping quiet. All performance
claims are either unvalidated, directly from Qualcomm or from a very controlled environment.
Then there is the reduction in CPU boost and memory clocks compared to the reveal last year,
indication ongoing tweaks to the yield. This isn't uncommon at all,
but running a odd memory configuration like LPDDR5X-8448 is a bit strange.
But the biggest mystery is the software. Unlike Apple, Qualcomm doesn't control
both hard- and software. The Snapdragon X Elite will run Windows for ARM and it
seems like Microsoft will have a exclusive contract with Qualcomm for the Snapdragon X
line-up. Windows for ARM isn't new and every previous attempt has failed. It's not only
the lack of a wide range of supported apps, but performance was also subpar in the past.
And that's why I'm still not sure about Qualcomms performance claims for the X Elite. I have
no doubt that the CPU architecture initially developed by Nuvia is a world class design with
the potential to rival or even outclass Apple. But I'm doubtful about Microsoft's ability to optimize
Windows for ARM in such a way that the X Elite can actually use all of that performance potential.
And we can't forget the competition. When Qualcomm announced the X Elite last year,
they compared it to Intel's Meteor Lake, AMD's Phoenix and Apple's M2. But that
won't be its competition. Instead, the X Elite will have to compete with Intel's Lunar Lake,
combining Lion Cove and Skymont CPU cores on TSMCs N3B, AMD is close to
launch it's Zen 5 Strix Point APUs and Apple just announced the M4 produced in TSMCs new
N3E node. The competition this year will be a lot stronger than it was last year.
There are many reasons to be hyped about Qualcomms next-gen laptop SoC,
especially considering the exciting history of the chips development. But at the same time,
being so close to the official launch, we still know very little
about the actual silicon and it's final performance running Windows.
I'm hoping the Snapdragon X Elite will live up to the hype and finally make Windows on ARM a viable
option, there's nothing better than competition. And I'm looking forward for more in-depth
information about its architecture and the actual silicon. Let me know if you would be interested
in a detailed comparison between the X Elite and the M4, if I can get my hands on actual die-shots.
I would like to know your thoughts on the X Elite. Do you think that the Nuvia team will be able to
deliver what they promised, or will the chip be gimped by Windows? And if it performs well,
could you imagine switching to Windows for ARM? Let me know in the comments below!
I hope you found this video interesting and see you in the next one.
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