Exclusive: Madhav Gadgil on Wayanad Disaster and Illegal Quarrying | Kerala Landslides
Summary
TLDRProfessor Madhav Gadgil, a leading ecologist, discusses the environmental crisis in Kerala's Western Ghats, highlighting it as a man-made disaster exacerbated by illegal rock quarrying and human interventions. He emphasizes the role of political parties in perpetuating these practices for profit, criticizing the lack of government action despite his 2011 report identifying ecologically sensitive areas. Gadgil calls for immediate cessation of activities in high-risk zones and criticizes the ongoing development projects that increase landslide vulnerability. His insights underscore the urgent need for political will and environmental responsibility to prevent further disasters.
Takeaways
- 🌳 Professor Madhav G. K. Pillay, a leading ecologist, discusses the ecological disaster in the Western Ghats, attributing it to human activities and suggesting it could have been avoided with better management.
- 💧 The increase in aerosol load due to activities like rock quarrying in the Western Ghats is contributing to more intense rainfall, which can lead to natural disasters like landslides.
- 🈲️ Pillay's report from 2011 recommended declaring 75% of the Western Ghats as ecologically sensitive and stopping quarrying in highly sensitive areas, but this has been largely ignored.
- 🏞️ The Western Ghats should be divided into zones of varying ecological sensitivity to better manage human activities and protect the environment.
- 👷♂️ Human interventions, such as tourism development and quarrying, are exacerbating the geological instability of the region and are not necessarily providing livelihoods for local people.
- 🏠 The people most affected by these disasters are often laborers living in poor conditions, highlighting a social issue alongside the environmental one.
- 🤝 The ecologist suggests that there is a need for a change in attitude from various stakeholders, including the church and government, towards recognizing and protecting the environment.
- 🚫 Pillay alleges that political parties are involved in the illegal quarrying business, which is causing environmental damage and contributing to disasters.
- 📜 Despite the ecologist's report and recommendations, there has been a lack of action from governments and politicians, who seem to prioritize economic interests over ecological preservation.
- 🛣️ The Kerala government is proposing further interventions in sensitive areas, such as a new highway, which could increase the risk of landslides and other environmental impacts.
- 🗣️ The ecologist has not been able to communicate his concerns effectively with top political leaders, indicating a disconnect between scientific advice and political action.
Q & A
Who is Professor Madhav Gagil and what is his expertise?
-Professor Madhav Gagil is a leading ecologist in the country, known for his pathbreaking report on the ecologically sensitive Western Ghats and his views on the environmental disasters in the region.
What does Professor Gagil describe as 'Nature's Revenge'?
-Professor Gagil refers to the heavy rains and flooding in Kerala as 'Nature's Revenge,' attributing the intensity of the rainfall partly to the increasing aerosol load caused by human activities, such as rock quarries.
What is the impact of aerosol load on rainfall according to Professor Gagil?
-The aerosol load, increased by activities like rock quarrying, leads to intense rainfall in short bursts instead of a more moderate and spread-out downpour over several hours.
What was the recommendation of Professor Gagil's report on the Western Ghats in 2011?
-The report recommended declaring nearly 75% of the Western Ghats as ecologically sensitive areas and stopping quarrying and other harmful activities in these regions.
How does Professor Gagil suggest dividing the Western Ghats for conservation purposes?
-He suggests dividing the Western Ghats into three zones based on ecological sensitivity: highly sensitive, moderately sensitive, and low sensitivity, with stricter regulations in the highly sensitive zones.
What is the role of human interventions in the landslides and environmental issues in the Western Ghats?
-Human interventions, such as illegal quarrying and construction activities, have increased the burden on the geological structure and contributed to the landslides and environmental degradation.
Why does Professor Gagil believe that the interventions in the Western Ghats are not for the betterment of the local population's livelihoods?
-He argues that the interventions are for the benefit of the wealthy, with the local laborers living in poor conditions and working for meager wages, which he equates to a form of modern-day slavery.
What is the stance of the political parties in Kerala regarding the illegal quarrying, according to Professor Gagil?
-Professor Gagil alleges that political parties in Kerala are involved in the illegal quarrying business, with different parties owning and profiting from these operations.
How has the response from the government and politicians been to Professor Gagil's report and recommendations?
-The response has been largely dismissive, with politicians avoiding contact with Professor Gagil and not implementing the recommendations of his report.
What is the proposed solution by Professor Gagil to minimize the environmental disasters in the Western Ghats?
-He suggests accepting the ecological sensitivity of certain areas and stopping all further human interventions, especially in the highly sensitive zones, to protect the environment and prevent further disasters.
Has Professor Gagil raised these environmental issues with top leaders like Rahul Gandhi, the Kerala Chief Minister, or the Prime Minister of India?
-He has not specifically mentioned raising these issues with these leaders, but he has noted a change in politicians' attitudes towards him since his report was submitted.
Outlines
🌿 Ecological Disaster in Western Ghats
Professor Madav Ggill, a leading ecologist, discusses the man-made ecological disaster in the Western Ghats, particularly in Kerala, exacerbated by illegal rock quarries. He attributes the increased intensity of rainfall to the aerosol load caused by these activities. The professor emphasizes the need to differentiate ecological zones based on sensitivity to better manage and protect the environment.
🏭 Impact of Human Interventions and Political Involvement
The conversation delves into the impact of human interventions, such as tourism and construction projects, on the ecological balance in the Western Ghats. Professor Ggill criticizes the exploitation of laborers and the prioritization of profits over environmental concerns. He alleges that political parties are involved in the illegal rock quarrying business, distributing these operations amongst themselves for profit.
🛑 Call for Action to Protect Ecologically Sensitive Areas
Professor Ggill offers a solution to the ongoing ecological crisis by advocating for the acceptance of certain areas as ecologically highly sensitive and calls for a halt to further human interventions in these zones. He criticizes the Kerala government's proposal for further development in these areas and expresses disappointment with the lack of response from political leaders to his expert panel's report on the Western Ghats.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Ecologist
💡Man-made disaster
💡Western Ghats
💡Quarrying
💡Aerosol load
💡Landslide
💡Ecologically sensitive
💡Livelihood
💡Political patronage
💡Environmental intervention
💡Human rights
Highlights
Professor Madav G. Gil, a leading ecologist, discusses the ecological disaster in the Western Ghats and its man-made causes.
Increasing aerosol load due to rock quarries contributes to intense rainfall and flooding in Kerala.
The Western Ghats should be divided into three ecological sensitivity zones to manage human interventions effectively.
Illegal quarrying is a significant environmental threat, linked to political patronage and profit-making.
Human interventions, such as tourist resorts and lake constructions, exacerbate the geological burden on the Western Ghats.
The ecological disaster disproportionately affects the poor, who are forced into hazardous living conditions for low wages.
Political parties have been accused of distributing illegal rock quarries amongst themselves for profit.
The church in Kerala is changing its attitude towards environmental issues, recognizing the harm caused by human interventions.
Governments have systematically diluted ecological protection recommendations over the years.
The Kerala government is proposing further interventions in ecologically sensitive areas, risking more landslides.
Professor Gil has been sidelined by politicians post his 2011 report, with no engagement or consideration of his findings.
The interview highlights the urgent need for the protection of ecologically sensitive areas in the Western Ghats.
The Western Ghats' ecological sensitivity demands a halt to further human interventions, especially in high-risk areas.
The ecological disaster in Ward is a result of a combination of natural and man-made factors, including illegal activities.
There is a need for a concrete solution to minimize the recurring landslides and ecological damage in the Western Ghats.
Professor Gil emphasizes the importance of recognizing and addressing the reality on the ground for sustainable environmental management.
Transcripts
let's hear from the expert because I'm
joined by someone who is arguably one of
the country's leading ecologists he's
someone who's been talking about the
dangers of what's happening in the
western GS and has been calling vard a
man-made disaster Professor madav ggill
who made a pathbreaking report on the
ecologically sensitive Western guards
appreciate you joining me you've
described Professor ggill what has
happened in wonard already as a man-made
disaster do you really believe that this
was a disaster that could have been
avoided given the kind of heavy rains
and flooding that's taken place in this
part of Kerala what Kerala has gone
through to the last few days is it
really avoidable at the end of the day
this is Nature's
Revenge uh yes now as far as the rain is
concerned uh even that in part is
because of increasing aerosol load in
our at osphere M it is now well known
scientifically that India is the aerosol
capital of the world and rock quaries
are particularly responsible for dust
Rock verifi Dust which increases this
aerosol load and as the aerosol load
increases what happens is that the ra
instead of
falling in DZ over say 4 hours comes
down very suddenly as intense rain in
bursts of half an hour 1 hour so even
the intensity of the rainfall could have
been moderated had we not been going in
for all this quaring of rocks all over
the Western GS may I uh May apart from
that of course yes to an extent Kerala
has always been experiencing heavy
Professor I since you mentioned that
word quaring which you say is one of the
biggest dangers to the Western guards
it's been illegal quaring Across the
Western guards your report had said in
2011 that you wanted to declare nearly
75% of the western guards as
ecologically sensitive including this
part of Kerala and Ward where the
tragedy took place would you agree that
it's very difficult to actually
Implement such a report there is a
battle between people who have to earn
their livelihoods and the environment
are you telling me that this entire belt
has to be freed of quaring of Tourism
because that's something that the
government both in Kerala and the center
seem reluctant to do is your report
feasible no no no this is a complete
misinterpretation see uh actually as per
the Mandate given to us this whole area
is ecologically sensitive
what we had said that this is not
practical and this should not be
attempted in
a broad breast fashion that therefore
the Western Gat areas should be divided
into three zones one is ecologically
highly sensitive then of middle
sensitivity and thirdly of low
sensitivity and we have asked for
particular L stopping of quaring and
Bing also in only the highly sensitive
areas not everywhere so that is a
misinterpretation now yes the area where
today this has happened and the putala
landslide which happened few years ago
in the similar area are uh areas with
higher slopes and very heavy rainfall
always and they are therefore very prone
to landslides anyway now there have been
increasing human interventions it is a
complete mistake to think that these are
to
increase the ability of people to e
livelihoods not at all the interventions
have been for example that the T around
the T State there are lots of tourist
res s where they are building lakes and
so on which are
further increasing the burden on the
uh geological structure none of nobody
is really making any uh question
about that these results which are meant
for the opulent and the rich section of
the society are creating much employment
of of course they are doing the thing of
the sort the people who have died which
you will actually see these are Tate
laborers if I have been there I have
personally seen
these what happens they are forced to
live in miserable HS in rides all the
good land is used
for the enjoyment of the tea Planters
and their friends they are forced these
people are forced to live with rides and
dealt with very
poor wages and conditions essentially AK
to slavery and it is them who have got
washed this time also all the bodies are
of these laborers in these Hearts close
to the rides so don't talk about
livelihoods being consed not at all it
is the money made by the rich that is
the concern of the governments but but
you know the point remains Professor
ggill that 11 years or 13 years after
your report every government has
systematically diluted your
recommendations and no one wants to
implement it no one wants to it appears
at least uh be disrupting what you are
calling for even the church in Kerala
has been reluctant to notify these areas
as ecologically sensitive so this battle
between environment or and livelihood or
environment and politics is this a
battle that really can be won can the
church Civil Society politicians realize
the damage that is being done because
there are in the end I maintain human
habitation out there can you drive out
people see I do not know quite about all
the church issues
and how it was the church this the
report that's another story uh but
increasingly today
actually very recently the Arch
Bishop one of the senior Arch Bishops I
don't know there are maybe more than one
in Kerala he invited me to
be a joint conv of a panel on human
rights in Kerala and he thinks that this
negative interventions in the
environment are very much against human
interest so the church is also changing
their
attitude and as far as the governments
are concerned it is very clear I have
checked also I have spent a lot of time
in Kerala in the field uh they have told
me
that the different political parties
have distributed these illegal mostly
illegal Rock quaries amongst themselves
this is owned by Kerala Congress that is
owned by a CPM politician that is owned
by BJP politician and so on so Professor
it is their interest that these Rock
quaries make enormous profits professor
Gale you are making may I stop you you
are making a very serious allegation you
are claiming that the entire Rock Waring
going on in areas like wonard is linked
to political parties whether CPM
Congress even the BJP that land is being
parceled out between these Pol
politicians I have heard similar stories
in my home state of Goa how land deals
are done again in violation of
environmental rules are you telling me
quaring in Kerala is being done at the
behest and patronage of political part
parties including the ruling
CPM absolutely I certainly will stand by
that statement that is the truth I am a
Scientist I have no political
affiliations and I only stand by reality
what is true on the ground and that is
the position on the ground this is very
clear about go Minds also and it is not
just me you might have seen there was a
Justice Shaha Commission on illegal
mining in Goa and they have said
that illegalities in mining has led to
the m owners making some 35,000 CR or
some such obscene amount of illegal
money uh so you can read the Shah
commission report and kind of
allegations as you say I making they are
made by a
uh professor professor Gil you know we
we referred for a moment to Goa I want
to come back to Kerala and I want a
solution from you what is the solution
that you as the country's top ecologist
have to offer given that we've accepted
these are Landslide areas given give me
a concrete solution which you believe is
workable to try try and minimize what we
are seeing year after year
now well one has to begin with accepting
that certain areas are ecologically
highly sensitive as I said not that
whole of Kerala is to be treated like
that uh in our report also we have said
that there are areas in Kerala where you
may have permission to qu and so on
provided that there is a proper consent
from the local gr panchayats but these
areas like this Y3 part where the recent
disasters have happened or the putala
disaster happened they are the ones in
which all further human interventions
should be stopped yes and the Kerala
government is in fact proposing further
interventions in this area for instance
In This Very area a tel to link
to now that Tel would involve lot of
creation of rock Rubble blasting that
will further send shock waves and make
the fragile Hills already which are
fragile further spr to landslides Kerala
government wants to actively promote
such activities and yes I I will stand
by whatever you call my allegations
these are facts you know I I just want
to know have you raised these issues
that you're raising with me today about
illegalities taking place on the ground
with a Rahul Gandhi he's the member of
parliament of Ward have you raised it
with the Kerala chief minister pendra VI
have you raised it with Narendra Modi
the prime minister of India have any of
these top leaders responded to your
report in any manner or have you raised
it with them
no no I I will tell you what it was very
interesting the way the
politicians changed their attitude
towards me as soon as the our report
Western G ecolog expert panel report was
submitted in
2011 after that all
politicians decided that bad Gill you
should keep completely aside you should
never have any contact with him you know
there is this famous line in kerala's
one of Shakespearean play y Casas he
thinks too much such men are dangerous
so they decided mad gadiri thinks too
much such men are dangerous so no there
is no question of my contacting
or asking any politic anything they
don't want to have anything to do with
me I'm going to leave it Professor you
know am it's all the noise that
politicians create it's always good to
have an expert who tries to cut through
that noise and tells us the truth you've
told us today that you believe that
there is illegal quaring going on that
the politicians know it they have a
stake in it and I just wonder whether
any of them will wake up to what you've
told us and at least Implement parts of
your report that really demand that the
ecologically sensitive wonderful Western
guards be protected at all costs and we
don't see the kind of terrible disasters
we've seen in vard at the moment I
appreciate Professor ggill for you for
for you to come and share your wisdom
with me here on the show thank you so
much
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