Making Marriage Work | Dr. John Gottman
Summary
TLDRDr. John Gottman's 'Making Marriage Work' explores the secrets of successful relationships through extensive research on over 3,000 couples. Gottman identifies key factors such as a 5:1 ratio of positive to negative interactions, the importance of friendship, and the ability to repair conflicts. He also discusses the concept of 'shared meaning' as a crucial element in maintaining a strong and lasting bond.
Takeaways
- 🔬 Dr. John Gottman is an expert in relationship research, having studied over 3,000 couples over 32 years to understand the dynamics that make relationships work.
- 🌈 He emphasizes that he is not a 'relationship guru' but bases his insights on extensive research, including studies with gay, lesbian, and heterosexual couples.
- 📈 Gottman discovered that a ratio of positive to negative interactions of 5:1 is a key indicator of successful relationships, highlighting the importance of positivity in conflict resolution.
- 🐎 He identified the 'Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse' in relationships: Criticism, Defensiveness, Contempt, and Stonewalling, which are predictive of divorce.
- 🛡️ The antidote to these negative patterns is building a culture of appreciation, respect, and turning towards bids for emotional connection, rather than away from them.
- 💡 Gottman's research shows that 69% of marital conflicts are perpetual and often remain unresolved, suggesting that the goal should be to move from gridlock to dialogue in handling these issues.
- 🤝 He stresses the importance of 'softened startup' in addressing issues, where couples present their concerns gently and with appreciation, leading to more effective communication.
- 💖 The concept of 'love maps' is introduced as a way to understand a partner's inner world, dreams, and aspirations, which is fundamental to building a strong friendship within the relationship.
- 👫 Gottman found that men who accept influence from their partners are more likely to have lasting relationships, reflecting the importance of mutual respect and consideration.
- 🧘♂️ The ability to calm down during conflict by taking breaks and reducing physiological arousal is crucial for effective problem-solving and maintaining a sense of humor in difficult discussions.
- 🌟 Creating a 'shared meaning system' in a relationship, where couples build something meaningful together beyond their individual selves, contributes significantly to the relationship's longevity and depth.
Q & A
Who is the main speaker in the provided transcript?
-The main speaker in the transcript is Dr. John Gottman, a renowned researcher on relationships.
What is Dr. Gottman's area of expertise?
-Dr. Gottman is an expert in researching relationships, having studied over 3,000 couples over 32 years to understand what makes relationships work.
What is the 'apartment laboratory' Dr. Gottman refers to in the transcript?
-The 'apartment laboratory' is a research facility built at the University of Washington by Dr. Gottman, designed to observe couples in a setting similar to a bed and breakfast getaway, allowing natural interactions while monitoring their physiological responses.
What is the significance of the 'masters of relationships' and 'disasters' groups mentioned by Dr. Gottman?
-The 'masters of relationships' refers to couples whose relationships improved over time, while the 'disasters' refers to those whose relationships fell apart or remained unhappy. Dr. Gottman's research aimed to identify differences between these two groups.
What is the 'ratio of positive to negative' that Dr. Gottman discusses in the context of relationship success?
-Dr. Gottman found that in relationships that stay together, there is a ratio of five positive interactions for every one negative interaction. This ratio is indicative of a healthy relationship dynamic.
What are the 'Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse' in relationship terms as described by Dr. Gottman?
-The 'Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse' in relationships are criticism, defensiveness, contempt, and stonewalling. These are negative patterns of interaction that can predict the end of a relationship.
How can couples build a 'culture of appreciation' according to Dr. Gottman?
-Couples can build a 'culture of appreciation' by expressing gratitude and respect for one another, even for small things, and by creating an environment where they look for and acknowledge positive aspects of their partner.
What are the three components of intimacy that Dr. Gottman identifies in successful relationships?
-The three components of intimacy are having an updated 'love map' of one's partner's inner world, expressing 'fondness and admiration' through appreciation and respect, and 'turning toward' one another's bids for emotional connection.
What is the concept of 'positive sentiment override' in the context of relationships?
-'Positive sentiment override' is a state of mind where positive feelings for one's partner and the relationship override temporary negative feelings or conflicts, allowing for more effective conflict resolution and emotional connection.
How does Dr. Gottman suggest dealing with perpetual problems in a relationship?
-Dr. Gottman suggests moving from 'gridlock' to 'dialogue' by understanding the underlying 'life dreams' within each person's position on the issue, and finding a way to honor both dreams to create a deeper level of intimacy.
What role does 'shared meaning' play in the long-term success of a relationship according to Dr. Gottman?
-'Shared meaning' is crucial for the long-term success of a relationship as it involves creating a sense of purpose and significance that goes beyond the individual partners, such as shared values, goals, and a collective identity.
Outlines
🔬 Research on Relationship Success
Dr. John Gottman introduces his expertise in relationship research, emphasizing that he's not a self-proclaimed guru but a researcher who has studied over 3,000 couples for 32 years. He explains the methodology of his research, including the use of an apartment laboratory to observe couples' interactions and physiological responses. Gottman and his colleague Bob Levinson discovered that they could predict the success or failure of relationships with over 90% accuracy, based on how couples handle conflict and disagreement.
📊 Positive to Negative Interaction Ratio
Gottman discusses the importance of maintaining a high ratio of positive interactions to negative ones in relationships. He reveals that successful relationships have a ratio of 5:1, meaning five positive interactions for every negative one. He also explains that negativity in relationships can be productive, as it can highlight issues that need addressing. However, the 'Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse'—criticism, defensiveness, contempt, and stonewalling—are particularly harmful and predictive of divorce.
💔 The Impact of the Four Horsemen
This paragraph delves deeper into the 'Four Horsemen', explaining how they can lead to the breakdown of a relationship. Criticism is described as an attack on a partner's personality, while contempt involves feeling superior and insulting the partner. Defensiveness often arises from feeling criticized, and stonewalling is the emotional withdrawal during conflict. Gottman contrasts these behaviors with healthier alternatives, such as expressing oneself, accepting responsibility, and showing respect and appreciation.
👫 Building Intimacy and Friendship
Gottman outlines the principles for building a strong friendship within a relationship, which includes creating 'love maps' to understand each other's inner worlds, expressing fondness and admiration, and responding positively to bids for emotional connection. He suggests that these elements contribute to a state of 'positive sentiment override', which helps couples navigate conflicts and maintain a strong bond.
🤝 Conflict Resolution and Repair
The speaker discusses the importance of conflict resolution in maintaining a healthy relationship. He explains that most conflicts are perpetual and cannot be fully resolved, but they can be managed through dialogue. Gottman emphasizes the ability of 'masters' of relationships to repair conflicts through recovery conversations and maintaining a sense of humor and affection even during disagreements.
💕 The Role of Shared Meaning
In this paragraph, Gottman explores the concept of shared meaning in relationships, suggesting that couples who feel they are building something together beyond their individual selves experience greater relationship satisfaction. He talks about creating a shared meaning system by intentionally building love maps, honoring each other's dreams, and considering the cultural and personal legacy within the relationship.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Relationship Research
💡Positive to Negative Ratio
💡Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
💡Love Maps
💡Fondness and Admiration
💡Turning Toward
💡Positive Sentiment Override
💡Gridlock
💡Shared Meaning
💡Compromise
Highlights
Dr. John Gottman is an expert in relationship research, having studied over 3,000 couples over 32 years.
Gottman and Bob Levinson, a professor at UC Berkeley, began their research with 'profound ignorance' about what makes relationships work.
Gottman built an apartment laboratory at the University of Washington to observe couples in a natural setting.
Couples were monitored with cameras and physiological sensors to measure stress and immune system function.
The research included a diverse range of couples, from newlyweds to those in midlife and retirement.
Gottman identified 'masters of relationships' who had increasingly happy relationships over time, and 'disasters' whose relationships deteriorated.
With over 90% accuracy, Gottman could predict which couples would stay together and which would divorce.
A key finding was the ratio of positive to negative interactions in a relationship, which should be 5:1 for successful relationships.
Negative emotions can be productive in relationships, highlighting areas that need improvement.
Gottman identified the 'Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse': criticism, defensiveness, contempt, and stonewalling, which predict divorce.
The masters of relationships dealt with conflict by discussing their feelings and needs, rather than criticizing their partners.
Respect and appreciation are crucial in maintaining a healthy relationship, countering the effects of the 'Four Horsemen'.
Gottman emphasizes the importance of friendship in a relationship, including enhancing 'love maps', fondness and admiration, and turning toward one's partner.
Love maps are internal representations of a partner's inner world, built through asking open-ended questions.
Fondness and admiration are expressed through small acts of appreciation and respect.
Turning toward bids for emotional connection, even in small moments, builds intimacy in a relationship.
Gottman found that most conflicts in a marriage (69%) are perpetual and never solved, but can be managed through dialogue.
The ability to repair conflicts and have a recovery conversation is a key skill of the masters of relationships.
Gottman suggests that humor and affection during conflict can help in repairing and maintaining a positive relationship.
Building a shared meaning system in a relationship, where both partners feel they are contributing to a larger purpose, is essential for long-term success.
Transcripts
better life media america's leading
source for life improvement presents
dr john gottman
making marriage work
[Music]
[Applause]
thank you
thank you very much
now why should you listen to me
uh first of all let me just uh tell you
that i'm not a relationship guru
i'm not like those people on afternoon
television
and the only thing i have to offer is
that i'm an expert in how to do research
on relationships and i've studied uh
over 3 000 couples
over the last 32 years you know couples
very much like yourselves
and uh and what i've tried to do is find
out what it is they do to make their
relationships work and we've also
studied gay and lesbian couples as well
as heterosexual couples for a very long
time and i've done this work with my
friend bob levinson who's a professor at
the university of california berkeley
and it's our 30th anniversary actually
this year of working together and what
we really brought to this whole area was
profound ignorance because we really
didn't have a clue about what made
relationships work when we started doing
this research 30 years ago and so we did
is we made videotapes of couples doing
ordinary things like talking about how
their day went and talking about an area
of conflict continuing disagreement and
at the university of washington i built
an apartment laboratory that was kind of
like a bed and breakfast getaway in
which uh we had couples just hang out
for 24 hours and it was a beautiful
picture window there and boats going by
and uh and you know people just sort of
listen to the music they want to listen
to watch television brought newspapers
to read and did whatever they wanted to
do and the only difference between that
setting and an ordinary bed and
breakfast was that we had four cameras
bolted to the wall
and they wore halter monitors that
measured two channels of
electrocardiogram and when they urinated
we took a urine sample to measure stress
hormones
in their urine and we took blood from
them
to measure how their immune system was
functioning and there were people in the
other room recording their facial
expressions of emotion but aside from
that it was like an ordinary bed and
breakfast getaway
and
we found you know what we basically did
was study you know representative
samples of couples and we started with
newlyweds in one study for example we're
now in the 13th year of studying those
couples as they had kids we studied them
in pregnancy and as their their babies
developed and then we studied kids who
we studied families who were
in midlife who had young kids couples in
their 40s couples in their 60s all the
way through retirement our current study
is about 20 years we follow couples so
we didn't know if there were good
relationships or bad relationships when
we started and we found out that over
time some of them some of the
relationships broke up
and some of them fell apart some of them
stayed together and were really unhappy
with one another and others you know
kind of more or less liked each other
over time and the relationships got
better and better and they were pretty
happy and we called that last group the
masters of relationships and the other
group the disasters the ones whose
relationships fell apart or stayed
together and weren't happy and what we
tried to find out was was there anything
different about the masters and the
disasters is there anything we could
figure out about it and we were very
surprised
to find out that we could predict which
couples would stay together and which
ones would get a divorce with over 90
accuracy
and you know you don't find that kind of
prediction in psychology very often
usually we can't predict people's
behavior at all
but here in relationships we're able to
predict with enormous accuracy what
would happen to a relationship in fact
in just 15 minutes of a couple talking
about an area of continuing disagreement
we could predict with 85 percent
accuracy whether they get divorced
and not only that
after following couples for 14 years we
could not only predict if they would get
divorced but when they would get
divorced as well
so i want to tell you about that
research and what we discovered from
this and how we put it all together in
kind of a theory about what makes
relationships work and what the
principles are for making them uh
making them get better and better and
also turning around ones that are really
unhappy
now this ability to predict divorce
with very high accuracy or happiness
with very high accuracy hasn't done a
lot for my personal life i don't get
invited out to dinner very much for
example you know
very few couples want to know if their
relationship is going to work or not
and in the middle of a fight my wife is
very likely to say to me if they could
see you now no
so but we try to use the principles my
wife and i we try to figure out you know
what how we can make our relationship
better and in fact uh we do a workshop
in seattle where the second day
uh every time we do the workshop my wife
and i talk about a fight we just had
and we're never at a loss we always have
a fight to talk about and we do this in
front of 150 couples uh and so you know
part of what i want to tell you is that
what we've learned in studying good
relationships as well as the disasters
is that we're all really in the same
soup
so let me start by talking about what it
is we learned that allows us to predict
divorce or stability with very high
accuracy the first thing we found was
that
if you take a look at the ratio of
positive stuff
during conflict things like interest
asking questions being nice to one
another being kind being affectionate
being empathetic and you look at all the
negative stuff like criticism hostility
anger uh hurt feelings and you take the
ratio of positive to negative
in relationships that stay together that
ratio turns out to be five to one
there's five times as many positive
things going on in relationships that
work
as negative
so that's an interesting equation and it
sort of suggests that if you do
something negative to hurt your
partner's feelings you know that you
have to make up for it with five
positive things so the equation is not
balanced in terms of positive and
negative negative has a lot more ability
to inflict pain and damage than positive
things have to heal and bring you closer
now the couples who wound up divorced
that ratio was point eight to one so
there was a little more negativity than
positivity in couples who were heading
for divorce
so first of all uh for a relationship to
feel right it has to be a very rich
climate of affection and humor and fun
and intimacy and empathy now in the
apartment lab that i mentioned that
ratio is more like 20 to 1 rather than 5
to 1 right so when you're just hanging
out it really needs to be an enormously
rich climate of positive stuff
interestingly enough you might think
that from that finding what you want to
do is if you're a therapist you want to
declare war on negativity and eliminate
all anger
sadness hurt feelings from relationships
and that's not true turns out negativity
is actually very productive in
relationships because hurt feelings and
negativity wind up for one thing
calling out stuff that doesn't work in
relationships right you hurt your
partner's feelings you learn something
right and you talk about how to make it
better next time so you don't want a
relationship where there's nothing
negative going on the other thing is it
wouldn't be very real if there wasn't
sadness disappointment you know and
there's kind of a cycle of getting
closer and drawing apart
that happens in relationships after a
fight people are distant for a while
and then they get closer together so
that in fact in relationships as a
result of negativity there's a need to
continually renew courtship
in relationships and so that's the
importance of that finding about
negativity and not declaring war and
negativity you don't want to get rid of
anger you don't want to get rid of
sadness you know that's kind of our
inheritance when we have a close
relationship we get all the emotions
now the next thing that bob and i wanted
to know is are all negative things
equally corrosive are there some things
that really are a lot more negative than
others and in fact there are and i wound
up calling those things the four
horsemen of the apocalypse and because
there were four things
that really were very predictive of
divorce
and they were characteristic of the
disasters
and very different from the masters the
masters are dealing with conflict in
this way it's kind of like if i was
holding imagine i was holding an
invisible soccer ball right here okay
and this soccer ball represents our
problem and my wife and i are kicking
this ball around
and that's the way the masters deal with
things now the disasters from the
beginning try to put that ball in their
partner's body and they're really saying
you're the problem right so the first
horseman of the apocalypse is what we
call criticism
and criticism is a way of complaining
that suggests that your partner's
personality is defective
okay
and now
what are the masters doing the masters
are still complaining right but they're
talking about themselves
talking about their feelings and what
they need
so let's say for example i complain
and i want to complain the way you know
a really great relationship would
complain i might say to my wife
something like you know you talked about
yourself all through dinner you never
asked me anything about my day
and that hurt my feelings i really need
you to ask me about my day
okay so there i'm talking about myself
what i feel and what i need right
now the disasters would try to make that
just a symptom
of my wife's defect and i would say to
my wife something like
you know you talked about yourself
during dinner you never asked me
anything about my day
what is wrong with you
this is a great question right what is
wrong with you does anybody ever answer
that question hey i'm glad you asked
that let me take a look and see what's
wrong you know
it's not really a question right now the
second horseman of the apocalypse kind
of follows from the first because if you
feel criticized you're going to be
feeling attacked and you're going to be
warding off this attack right and that's
defensiveness the second horseman of the
apocalypse and we found there are two
ways of becoming defensive that are most
common in couples the first is righteous
indignation and in righteous indignation
what you're doing is meeting a complaint
with a counter complaint the second way
of being defensive is i can act like an
innocent victim
and the most common way people act like
an innocent victim is they whine
i cared about your day i really did i
was really interested in your day
now what's the
what's the opposite what's the
constructive alternative what do the
masters do instead of get defensive it's
very simple
they accept responsibility even for a
small part of the problem so she says to
me all through dinner you talked about
yourself you never asked me about my day
i can say god good point you know i
really was stressed out you know during
dinner and the drive home was awful i
had a rotten day i don't think i was
listening to anybody you know
whole day and you're right i probably
wasn't listening to you so
how was your day
now the third horseman is our best
predictor of divorce and it is
disrespect and contempt
now contempt is a little bit different
than criticism because in contempt
you feel superior to your partner you're
speaking from a higher plane kind of
like i'm on this podium and i'm talking
down well if you do that to your partner
you feel let's say you feel cleaner than
your partner or more punctual or tidier
or smarter than your partner then you're
going to kind of talk down to your
partner and the comment that will come
out will be this kind of snobby
contemptuous comment right now how do
people get contemptuous the most common
way they do that is by calling their
partner names or directly insulting them
and you know so you can say you know
what a jerk
you only talk about yourself
now we would like our partners to
respond to us by saying something like
john
that's brilliant you're such an
observant person you know thank you for
pointing out all the ways in which i'm
failing as a human being can we have
lunch next week so you can tell me more
you know but unfortunately people don't
respond that way right they really wind
up getting hurt in fact contempt is our
single best predictor of divorce now
what is it that the masters are doing
that's the alternative for contempt
what is the opposite of disrespect
it is not doing nothing it is really
respect
and being proud of the people we love
and what the masters are doing is
creating in the relationship a culture
of appreciation they're saying thank you
for very small things that their
partners are doing thanks for picking up
the laundry i enjoyed the conversation
at dinner
i watched you playing with the baby last
night and it was really beautiful
we had that teacher conference and you
know that teacher really intimidates me
you've got a lot of guts so it's
communicating not only affection but
respect right that's the culture of
appreciation now how do you build that
and what the way you build it is you
start really creating a different habit
of mind a habit of mind where instead of
scanning the environment for things to
criticize and put down and make yourself
superior through putting down other
people you scan the environment for
things you can praise and appreciate and
this is as important in
uh in love relationships as it is in
parent-child relationships looking for
stuff you can appreciate catch your
partner doing something right
now the fourth horseman of the
apocalypse we call stonewalling
and here's what stonewalling is it's
really emotional withdrawal from
conflict and here's the way we actually
measure it in our laboratory usually
when a when a listener is
listening to somebody talk
they actually give the speaker a lot of
signals that they are tracking that
they're that they're there not
necessarily agreeing they maintain
they're sort of an open body they
maintain eye contact nod their heads
they utter these brief vocalization oh
yeah huh they move their faces oh yeah
could be oh yeah sure
and so all of these signals are coming
out the stonewaller doesn't do that
maybe foal's arms are kimbo like that
looks down and away
there's no facial movement
there's no vocalization there may be an
occasional glance at the speaker just to
see if the ogre has magically
disappeared
that's stonewalling now
what does stonewalling do
you know what it does is that the
speaker doesn't think he or she is
getting through right so instead of
getting out the 40-pound cannon
when they're stonewalling the speaker
gets out the 60-pound cannon boom you
know let's really have an impact right
so those are the four horsemen of the
apocalypse and they allow us to predict
with high accuracy what's going to
happen to a relationship
but you know that's kind of like
the recipe for failure right and the
recipe the alternative recipe for
constructive conflict resolution is
interesting and useful in some way but
it doesn't give you enough information
about what it is that
the in good relationships is really
happening to maintain that intimacy in
the relationship and here's what we
discovered about that from looking at
the apartment lab we actually came out
with a number of principles that really
could be useful in building a
relationship so let me tell you about
these principles
the first thing that we found was that
in good relationships friendship is
extremely important it's not just about
conflict and how you deal with conflict
it's about intimacy and maintaining
intimacy now the cool thing about being
a researcher is you cannot just talk
about things in vague terms you have to
really measure stuff and so you have to
be really precise about the advice you
give
and what we found was there were three
ingredients to friendship and that's all
you needed to do was work on those three
things and you could you could have an
intimate friendship in your relationship
and here's what the three things are
first first thing was to enhance what we
call your love maps now what's a love
map
it's an internal road map that you make
up that you have in your mind about your
partner's inner world inner
psychological world so this is the whole
dimension of being known a feeling like
your partner is really interested in
knowing you
and
of feeling like you know you want to
know your partner so it's about interest
in one another right and it's about
knowing like you know who are the main
people in your in your partner's world
uh what's stressing your partner out
what's exciting
what are some of your partner's dreams
and hopes and aspirations and values
right now how do you find that
information out
asking questions
so the fundamental process is really
asking questions now not questions like
did the plumber come right but
open-ended questions like
how are you feeling about being a mother
right now
how do you like this house do you want
to change it
how are you thinking about your job
right now
have you changed
how would you like our life to be in the
next five years those kinds of questions
they help build the love map
now the cool thing about this is some
people make these love maps naturally
and some people just don't do it
so when you talk to people who don't
make love maps
and you tell them about how important it
is they go
okay
so how do i do that and if you show them
how to do it then they go
okay i'll do it
now if you want to really try changing
your life in the area of relationships
in the next two weeks
try
making 50 of the things you say to
people a question an open-ended question
instead of making statements to people
ask them questions and you'll find that
people really change because people
rarely ask questions it's a very very
fundamental thing to do and yet it's a
very rare thing people mostly make
statements and broadcast rather than
saying what do you think about this
asking those kinds of questions
so love maps is the first ingredient of
friendship the second one is what we
call fondness and admiration and i
mentioned that in the culture of
appreciation it's really about
communicating
affection
and respect in very small ways and
that's what the masters are doing
they're creating this culture of
appreciation in very tiny ways they're
saying thank you i'm proud of you
i really admire you i respect you and
they're doing it often now
let me tell you about a couple that we
saw and this guy you know was
very successful in his career and he ran
an intensive care unit for for babies in
a major hospital in los angeles and he
and his wife had been married for 17
years and i talked to him about the very
first date he had with his wife
and he said god you know i was thinking
that first date that of all the women
i'd ever met she was the most vivacious
most exciting the most beautiful the
most intelligent woman i'd ever met i
went wow now there's a fondness and
admiration system right now the next
thing i wanted to know is did his wife
know this
that he was thinking this on the first
date in fact in 17 years had he ever
told her that he thought this about her
and so i i asked her i said did you know
this she said i never had a clue
so what's the fundamental thing in
fondness and admiration it can't stay in
the brain it's got to come out the mouth
right so that's really what the masters
are doing in very small ways they're
saying thank you i mean even for trivial
things thanks for doing the dishes you
know even if it's that person's turn to
do the dishes right a lot of couples say
well why should i say thank you i just
do stuff he does stuff why should we say
thank you to each other i don't get much
appreciation and i always say
do you like that do you like feeling
unappreciated no
well do you both feel unappreciated yes
okay so that's to express appreciation
it's not very complicated it's very
simple and it helps this habit of mine
right where you're scanning the
environment for things to appreciate so
that's love maps fondness and admiration
right respect and affection the third is
something we learned from the apartment
lab is that when people are just hanging
out
the way they build intimacy is in very
tiny moments they make little bids
bids
for emotional connection
now it's at the lowest level they're
making bids for their partner's
attention you know like for example you
know i can look out the window of the
apartment lab where boats were going by
and i can say
well there's a pretty boat
okay now let's say that my wife says
that and i'm cleaning my glasses right
and she says there's a pretty boat
no response
we call that turning away
right sometimes
somebody be cleaning their glasses
here's a pretty boat
huh
now that's a pretty minimal response
right but it's turning toward it's some
response sometimes people would turn
toward a bid in a very enthusiastic way
like there's a pretty boat
wow that is a pretty boat
you know say did you ever think
why don't we quit our jobs like and get
a boat like that and just kind of sail
off together
so we call that an enthusiastic turning
toward right rather than just you know a
turning tord without enthusiasm
and what we found was very interesting
that what happens if i make a bid for
just her attention and she turns away
she doesn't respond at all
you know what are the chances i say hey
there's a pretty boat no response i'm
gonna say
hey julie i said there's a pretty boat
you know the probability of rebidding is
almost zero in all relationships
it actually is zero in the couples the
newlyweds that wound up divorcing six
years later and .22 22 probability in
couples that stayed together still very
low right and in fact on the videotape
what you see is if people
partners turn away they kind of crumple
a little bit you know and they do some
face saving things like straightening up
or petting the cat you know or something
like that but they don't re-bid that
lack of connection
is really painful and we started
realizing that in these very tiny
moments of emotional connection people
are building kind of an emotional bank
account in the relationship they're
building up points in their relationship
that builds emotional connection okay
those are the three components of
intimacy
making a love map right and updating it
periodically by asking questions
fondness and admiration and turning
toward okay now
when those three things are working then
it turns out people are in a state of
mind that we call
positive
sentiment override now that's a fancy
term but it means that my positive
sentiment for my wife and the
relationship overrides momentary times
when she's irritable or we're feeling a
little distant but if those three parts
of a friendship are not working very
well love maps fondness and admiration
and turning toward then i'll be a
negative sentiment override and that
means i've got a chip on my shoulder
right
i mean if i'm in negative sentiment
override
she can come down one morning to the
kitchen and say
in a very sweet way
you know honey you're not supposed to
run the microwave when there's no food
in it
and if i got that chip on my shoulder
i'm gonna say don't you tell me how to
run the microwave i'm the one who reads
the manuals around here you're not going
to control and manipulate me
see i've got a chip on my shoulder i'm
hyper vigilant for put downs i'm in a
negative state and you know you can't
tell me to not be so sensitive about the
relationship you know to lighten up
not take it so personally just you can't
tell me well she said it in a sweet way
i can't get out of negative sentiment
override right so research studies that
have tried to change people's cognitive
style about the relationship fail
and they fail for good reason because
love maps aren't working fondness and
admiration and turning toward aren't
working that's why i got why i got that
chip on my shoulder right but if they're
working i'm in positive sentiment
override she can say
in a very irritable way
hey you're not supposed to run the
microwave but there's no food
and if i'm in positive sentiment
override i'll say okay
i'm not taking that personally right
you know i'm seeing that as maybe she's
stressed out i'm thinking
this lady's very involved in the
microwave today i don't know why you
know but uh not gonna ask her now you
know uh but you know basically you know
it's a buffer positive sentiment
override is a buffer against
irritability and emotional distance and
that brings me to conflict because what
the masters are doing during conflict is
they're really able to repair the the
conflict
when it's not going well it's hard to
change people's behavior when they're
fighting
you know it's very easy to get defensive
you know if you feel attacked it's very
easy to become critical if you're upset
particularly if you put off your
complaints for a long time
so everybody does that
but the masters can repair
they can have a recovery conversation
and in fact this dimension of repair is
one of the most central dimensions about
making relationships work well over time
everybody messes up everybody gets
defensive
everybody gets critical at times
insulting you know these things happen
but the ability to really step back when
you're calmed down and say
i'm sorry
you know that didn't go very well um
can we talk about it and have that
recovery conversation that's something
that the masters can do not only that
but the one thing we found about the
masters that was so interesting was that
they had a sense of humor during
conflict so how do you get people have a
sense of humor turns out that if you
build love maps and fondness and
admiration and turning toward and we've
done this experiment
then people's sense of humor increases
even during conflict and they can repair
and they can be affectionate during
conflict so friendship is the basis of
regulating conflict that's pretty
interesting because you can change
people's behavior in these very neutral
moments these tiny moments like in the
apartment lab when they're just hanging
out it's not very emotional it's not a
big deal and all you have to do is build
awareness of these bids and the
importance of turning toward what we
didn't expect and this was a big
surprise
is that not only are these three
ingredients of friendship the basis
for
dealing with conflict in a constructive
manner having a sense of humor and
affection during
times when you disagree
but they're also the basis of good sex
romance and passion
in the relationship now let me try to
convince you of that that that makes
sense
i have a book that is called 1001 ways
to be romantic it's kind of an
interesting book has a lot of really
great suggestions like you know some are
addressed to husbands some are dressed
to wives you know and like one says
don't send your wife a dozen roses send
her a rose a day for 12 days
kind of cool idea you know write a note
with each rose kind of nice
well let's look at number 24 which turns
out to be
again addressed the guys and it says
what could be more romantic than sending
your wife a golden locket
giving your wife a golden locket with
your picture in it
okay let's think about that
love maps fondness and admiration and
turning toward let's say love maps i
haven't asked my wife a question in 17
years
fondness and admiration we were out to
dinner a couple of nights ago
and she started telling a story and i
said
you're not going to tell that story
nobody wants to hear that that is so
stupid just shut up
i said that in public okay fondness and
admiration i'm i'm down two now right
bids and turning uh you know i don't
even notice when she makes a bid and
then i give her a golden locket with my
picture in it right
and i ask you is that going to be a
romantic event in a relationship i don't
think so right she's going to drive the
suv over it a couple of times really
flatten out that golden locket what
makes that event romantic you know if i
write a poem and we go to our favorite
restaurant and i toast to how beautiful
her eyes are and i read my you know
stupid poem that i wrote i choke up when
i read it her eyes filled with tears
because
love maps fondness and admiration and
turning toward are working in the
relationship
and so you really build sex
and passion
and romance
in these very very small moments of
emotional connection now we learned some
surprising things about conflict as well
let me tell you what we learned
first of all we found that
most
conflicts in a marriage
fact 69 of them
are never solved
when we study couples four years later
we find mostly they're talking about the
same stuff in the same way so that's
kind of interesting you know if you know
if it's not that changeable then you
know what do you do to make a difference
in relationships well
by building these
parts of the relationship you know that
fondness and admiration and turning
toward and love maps you're actually
working on that relationship itself on
the way conflict is dealt with in that
relationship but 69 percent of the time
we found that the same conflicts are
perpetuated and we wound up realizing
that when you pick somebody to marry you
have automatically inherited your set of
unresolvable relationship problems that
you'll have for the next 10 20 30 40
years
like in my marriage for example you know
my wife has to have the house incredibly
neat you know and it has to look like a
museum whereas i am charmingly sloppy
right it's not going to change until she
gets therapy
and she feels the same way about me she
says i'm organizationally impaired
so we have this perpetual issue
well most conflicts are perpetual issues
now by the way if you married somebody
else you wouldn't have those conflicts
you'd have a different set
but every relationship has these
perpetual problems due to these
personality differences and the fact
that we are much more forgiving toward
ourselves than we are toward others so
we found two kinds of couples around
these perpetual problems
one kind really had kind of a dialogue
with perpetual problems you know it's
not that the perpetual problems went
away it's that they had a relationship
with the problems they talked about them
and they figured out ways to cope
and to some extent you could really say
that
marriage is last to the extent that
you've selected somebody who's
irritating qualities you can stand
and where the perpetual problems are
ones you can deal with whereas
if they're perpetual problems that
really make you nuts
then that relationship is not going to
work out very well
and in fact in the couples that really
wound up getting divorced their
perpetual problems resulted in gridlock
this is my visual image of gridlock two
fists in opposition right no compromise
every time they talk about the issue
there's the four horsemen or they get
emotionally disengaged they hurt each
other's feelings they feel basically not
accepted by their partner that's
gridlock marital conflict it's like a
highway where all the cars are bumper to
bumper never goes anywhere it never
moves anywhere it's just frustrating
it's just steamy it's awful and so the
major problem in making relationships
work around conflict is not resolving
the conflict because most conflicts
don't get resolved it's moving a couple
from gridlock to dialogue to where
they're coping with the problem
now what's the secret of that
that's a really interesting question
right how do you move somebody from
gridlock to dialogue and what a lot of
people will say if you went to the
library and you know read about marital
therapy or relationships between couples
you know they would say well the reason
these people aren't compromising about
this perpetual problem they're not
getting anywhere with it you know
they're they're in opposition they're
entrenched in their position they're
polarized in their positions is because
they have personality defects he's a
narcissist
she is borderline
she's hysterical he's self-centered and
unempathetic you know in all these ways
of describing inadequate personalities
but what we say is the opposite
we say if you look at the subtext of
what they're arguing about in other
words look underneath what they're
fighting about maybe they're arguing
ostensibly about money they really
disagree about spending and saving and
their their philosophies about money are
really very different but you actually
look at what they're what they're
talking about underneath that and you
find that they're actually arguing about
very different things than money they're
arguing about basic philosophical
concepts that are very close to their
sense of self they're talking about
freedom they're talking about power
they're talking about caring and love
they're talking about what a home is
what it means to be a family
and so
what does that mean it means that
within these fists
if you could make the relationship safe
enough and open these fists
there would be a dream a life dream
within each position that would fly out
like a dove
and the reason they're not compromising
is really understandable so instead of
us saying
to people the reason you're not
compromising is that you're arrested in
an earlier stage of development you're
immature you have a personality defect
we say no wonder you couldn't compromise
you could no more compromise on this
issue then you could respond to somebody
who came up to you and said excuse me
can i borrow your bones
you can't give people your bones right
or you die and in the same way you can't
give up the bones of who you are so we
tell people the reason you're gridlocked
is because you haven't looked at the
dream within the conflict the life dream
and what you need to do is become a
dream catcher
and release those dreams make the
relationship safe enough ask questions
find out what the dreams are within this
each person's position
and what the history of those dreams are
what the life story is the narrative
behind each dream
and then find a way to honor both dreams
and once both dreams are honored then
the the greatest sources of conflict and
alienation
in a relationship become the greatest
sources of intimacy because what are you
doing you're building love maps at a
deeper level right you're finding out
something about
meaning and purpose
in people's lives
now for problems that could be solved
what we found was that 31 of the
problems that could be solved we found
actually that the masters were doing
something really interesting and to
summarize what they were doing in one
word it was really gentleness they were
presenting issues in a very gentle way
and they were doing what we call
softened startup instead of presenting
it in a harsh way they were presenting
their issue in a very gentle way and i
learned a lot from this in my
relationship and i found that you know a
lot of times i would get really upset
with my wife julie and i say to her
julie you are so emotionally unavailable
to me what is wrong with you
and i found when i said that she did not
want to spend more time with me i don't
know why i was expressing my feelings
very clearly but then i i watched the
masters do it and you know so one day i
said to her
you know honey i'm getting that old
feeling again of being lonely
i really miss you
i just need more of you in my day
not only that but they expressed
appreciation so i said
you know a couple of weeks ago when we
cuddled on the couch
that was really so nice how can we do
that again
and she said how about now
so it was the same complaint right but i
softened the startup in fact rather than
criticizing her i was still expressing
what i needed which was more of her i
was really flattering her i was really
telling her how much i missed her how
much i needed her how much i admired her
how important she was to me and saying
it very directly which was what the
masters were doing the other thing we
found is not only are the masters
starting with general startup but
they're really accepting influence from
one another
and in particular guys are accepting
influence from women
now that was very that was a very
interesting thing and it emerged from
studying violent relationships a study i
did with neil jacobson and uh what we
found was that these physically violent
guys
never said anything to their wives like
good point
i never thought of that everything they
said was no
you're not going to control and
influence me they rejected everything
they were like baseball players at
batting practice you know whatever got
tossed to them they hit back
so we're very interested in that
rejection of influence and we went
looked at our newlyweds who were not
violent to try to see what predicted
whether they'd stay together or get
divorced and we looked at women
accepting influence for men men
accepting influence from women
and
it didn't predict with women but for
guys
who came up to close to where the women
were because the women were accepting
influence in all relationships at a
pretty high level the guys who were
accepting influence their relationships
stayed together
and we're
living through a period in history where
women are being emancipated on an
international scale in most nations and
they're being empowered economically
psychologically politically and after
millennia of oppression and the guys who
realize that this is a time to really
honor women and it makes a difference to
honor your wife's dreams it makes a
difference to to convey that honor just
for example like putting down the toilet
seat after you go to the bathroom you
know now it takes as much work for a
woman to put it down is for a man to put
it down putting it down it really
conveys that you're thoughtful and that
you're honoring your partner it's a
small thing but the men who accept
influence from their partner and say
well it's a good point i never thought
of that tell me more about your opinion
you know let me consider that let me
find out why you see things the way you
see things those guys are way ahead of
the game okay now not only did the
masters have gentle startup and the guys
accept influence but also
they moved toward compromise
and they were able to compromise and one
of the things they did was very
interesting and because we collected
data on heart rate and blood flow
velocity on physiology while people were
interacting we found that
calming down was a very very important
part of this whole equation when your
heart rate gets above 100 beats a minute
your body starts secreting adrenaline
and your arteries start constricting and
blood flow shuts down to the gut in the
kidney and you start sweating more blood
pressure increases the kidney starts
producing a substance called renin which
leads to angiotensin which also
increases blood volume and blood
pressure all this stuff is going on well
it has adaptive value when you're trying
to escape from a predator you know or
there's a car coming in your lane and
you have to get out of the way right
that's adaptive but when you're in the
middle of a marital discussion this kind
of physiological arousal is very
maladaptive because you cannot process
information very well
you can't be very creative you know
you're not a very good problem solver
when your heart rate gets above 100
beats a minute so what really has to
happen is people have to calm down and
take breaks and really calm themselves
and self-soothe
so in one study we did we actually did
this trick with people we waited for
their heart rate to get above 100 beats
a minute and we went out and said to the
couple we're having some trouble with
our equipment would you stop talking
about this problem until we repair it
and we gave them magazines to read right
now it wasn't true we actually the
equipment was working we waited actually
for their heart rate to go down down
down down down and when it went back to
baseline we came in and said okay the
equipment's working now you can talk
about the issue again why did we do that
we wanted to see if it would be
different with their discussion of the
problem would be different when their
heart rates were low than when they were
high i can tell you for for the most
part it was like a different
relationship
when the heart rate was low all of a
sudden people had a sense of humor you
know they listened well
they were more creative problem solvers
so we learned from this that you know
reducing flooding and physiologically
reducing your your arousal is a very
important part and one of the most
important thing you can do to really
make that happen is to take a break call
a timeout
and what we found is studying violent
couples was that they never did that
whenever they had a violent fight there
was one person who wanted to get away
from the other and have a time out and
the other one say no way
you're not abandoning me you're not
having a timeout and so the conflict
would escalate so monitoring your
physiological arousal is very important
now this is nobody's fault right i mean
when your heart rate gets up you get
defensive you know you're really in a
state of fight or flight and there's no
way you can be a good problem solver and
you can listen well
and that gets us to the final part of
this theory and these principles for
making relationship work is the idea of
shared meaning and a shared meaning
system
and this is really one of the most
important things about relationships is
that what people do in relationships
that really work well is there feel like
they're building something
something beyond just the two of them
they feel like being together has some
meaning and purpose
and there are many ways in which people
create meaning and purpose
most people do it really unintentionally
without talking about it without
thinking about why they're doing what
they're doing and what they're doing one
important way of people build meaning is
by the way they move through time
together now what i want to suggest to
you is that every relationship
even if people come from the same race
the same religion the same part of the
country the same ethnic group every
relationship is a cross-cultural
experience
so people create meaning thinking about
their cultural legacy their heritage
they think about their mission in life
what they want to leave the world with
and that relationship either supports
that mission and legacy or not
they create meaning in the way they move
through time together right they create
meaning and how they think about
themselves as a son as a daughter as a
friend as a brother or sister as a
mother and a father as a husband or wife
and all of these ways you know in all of
these roles and all of these ways people
create meaning now you can do it
intentionally or you can do it
unintentionally but if you do it
intentionally then you create the shared
meaning system
and what are we doing there we're really
again building love maps right so it
really comes back to the beginning to
friendship so let me summarize there are
really three parts to making a
relationship uh a successful
relationship the one that works out over
time and gets better over time one thing
is really the quality of friendship and
all you have to do for that is build
love maps
build fondness and admiration which is
affection respect and notice bids for
connection and turn toward your partner
rather than away and against and when
that happens you're in a state of
positive sentiment override rather than
negative and that helps you really
repair it helps you have a recovery
conversation after a fight helps you
regulate the conflict and repair when it
happens and i also told you that during
conflict most problems don't get solved
in a relationship people just adapt to
them and when they don't adapt to them
it's because they're really gridlocked
on a conflict
and those horrible conflicts the worst
ones really can be the greatest sources
of intimacy if you wind up opening those
fists and releasing the dreams within
the conflict and honoring one another's
dreams and that's actually the tip of
the iceberg because it's part of
creating a shared meaning system
together
and that's what makes relationships work
well
thank you very much for listening
[Applause]
[Music]
we hope you've enjoyed this special
presentation of dr john gutman's making
marriage work if you'd like to own a
copy of this program or any of better
life media's programs please visit our
website at betterlifemedia.com
where you'll find all types of valuable
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