Yuval Noah Harari on AI, Future Tech, Society & Global Finance
Summary
TLDRIn a thought-provoking discussion, the potential of AI in the financial sector and its implications for society are explored. The conversation delves into the risks of AI's growing complexity, which could lead to a loss of human understanding and control, possibly resulting in a crisis of trust and a shift of power to algorithms. The role of institutions in regulating AI and maintaining human involvement is emphasized, along with the need for AI to be accountable and understandable. The dialogue also touches on AI's creative potential and the importance of using technology to build trust and address global challenges such as the climate crisis.
Takeaways
- 🧠 The discussion at the Summit revolves around AI's role in the financial sector and the challenges of managing risks associated with AI's growing complexity and influence.
- 🌐 The speaker suggests that as AI systems become more integral to financial operations, there's a risk of humans losing the ability to understand and thus control these systems, potentially leading to a crisis of trust and a shift of power to algorithms.
- 🤔 There's a concern that if AI makes finance too complex for humans to grasp, it could result in a political and social crisis, with power shifting from humans to AI, which could be unregulated and unsupervised.
- 💡 The financial system's primary product is trust; it enables transactions between strangers. AI's potential to understand and innovate in finance could either bolster or undermine this trust.
- 🔮 The speaker warns that AI could create financial instruments too complex for human understanding, leading to a dangerous reliance on AI during crises, which could exacerbate a loss of public trust in institutions.
- 🛑 The importance of maintaining human oversight and understanding of AI in finance is emphasized to prevent a scenario where AI's complexity leads to uncontrollable outcomes.
- 🌱 Historical examples of technological transitions, such as the Industrial Revolution, show that while humanity can adapt and benefit from new technologies, the transition periods can be fraught with failed experiments and societal upheaval.
- 🌟 AI's potential for creativity is highlighted, with examples like AlphaGo revolutionizing the game of Go, suggesting AI could bring about new forms of creativity in various fields, including finance.
- 🔑 The role of institutions in managing AI development is underscored as a means to ensure accountability and to harness AI's potential positively while avoiding dangerous misuse.
- 🌍 The potential of AI to help address global challenges like the climate crisis is noted, suggesting that AI could be a tool for developing more sustainable and eco-friendly technologies.
- 💡 The conversation concludes with an audience question about the relationship between AI and human creativity, to which the speaker responds that AI is already demonstrating a form of creativity that could lead to significant advancements in various domains.
Q & A
What is the main concern regarding AI's impact on the financial system as discussed in the summit?
-The main concern is that AI could make the financial system so complicated that no human, not even those in central banks or governments, can understand it, potentially leading to a crisis of trust and control shifting from humans to algorithms.
What is the current level of understanding of the financial system among the general population according to the speaker?
-The speaker suggests that perhaps only 1% of the population truly understands how the financial system works, indicating a significant gap in general understanding.
What role does trust play in the financial system?
-Trust is the ultimate product of the financial system. It allows for the creation of mechanisms like money, bonds, and shares that facilitate transactions and cooperation among millions of people.
How does AI differ from previous financial tools in terms of understanding and creating financial devices?
-AI is the first tool that can understand finance better than humans because it deals with data and information more efficiently. It can potentially invent new financial devices that humans cannot comprehend.
What are the political implications of a financial system that is too complicated for humans to understand?
-The political implications include a potential shift of power from humans to non-human intelligence, which could be dangerous as it involves giving control of an important part of society and politics to entities that cannot be regulated or supervised by humans.
What historical examples were given to illustrate the potential dangers of AI in the financial industry?
-The speaker mentioned the financial crisis of 2007-2008, which started with a failure to regulate new financial tools like CDOs, as an example of what could happen if AI creates new financial devices that are too complex for human understanding.
What is the speaker's view on the potential creativity of AI in the future?
-The speaker believes that AI is already very creative and will continue to explore new areas in various fields, including finance, in ways that are currently unimaginable to humans.
How does the speaker suggest we should approach the regulation of AI in the financial sector?
-The speaker suggests that regulation should focus on ensuring AI remains accountable and understandable, and that it should facilitate the creation of more trust among people, which is the ultimate goal of the financial system.
What is the potential positive role of AI in addressing the climate and energy crises?
-AI can help develop more eco-friendly technologies and find better ways to tap and use energy from the universe, which could assist in solving the climate and energy crises without halting economic growth.
How does the speaker view the concept of nations in relation to AI and the future of global cooperation?
-The speaker believes that nations are not something to be abolished but rather need to be made to cooperate more effectively. New imaginative creations, including in finance, should focus on building trust among people across nations.
What is the speaker's stance on the idea of AI creating new 'fictions' that could enhance human flourishing?
-The speaker advises caution, stating that while AI can create new kinds of fictions, it is dangerous to trust AI without question. Human-created fictions like nations have both positive and negative aspects and should be used responsibly.
Outlines
🤖 AI's Role and Challenges in the Financial Sector
The speaker discusses the current state of AI in the financial industry and the challenges it poses, particularly regarding regulation and understanding. AI's potential to complicate the financial system to a point where no human can understand it is highlighted, along with the societal and political crises that may arise from such a scenario. The importance of maintaining human oversight and the role of trust in finance are emphasized, with the notion that AI could either enhance or destroy this trust.
🌐 The Importance of Human Understanding in a Tech-Dominated Future
This paragraph delves into the implications of AI outpacing human understanding, suggesting that the remaining percentage of the population that grasps the financial system could diminish to zero. The potential consequences of this shift, including the loss of human control and a transfer of power to algorithms, are explored. The necessity of maintaining trust in AI and the importance of human involvement in decision-making processes are underscored.
🏭 Lessons from History on Adapting to Technological Change
Drawing parallels with historical transitions like the Industrial Revolution, the speaker reflects on humanity's adaptability to new technologies. The paragraph discusses the potential dangers of the transition period as we learn to harness AI's power, comparing it to past failed experiments such as imperialism and communism. The unique capabilities of AI to make independent decisions and create new ideas are highlighted, emphasizing the urgency and complexity of mastering this technology.
🛡️ The Crucial Role of Institutions in AI Regulation
The speaker advocates for the importance of institutions in managing AI development, arguing that they provide the necessary framework to ensure AI remains accountable and understandable. The paragraph stresses the need for human involvement in AI decision-making processes and the maintenance of trust in financial systems, suggesting that institutions are our best defense against the potentially destructive capabilities of AI.
🎭 AI's Creative Potential and Its Impact on Human Ingenuity
Discussing AI's ability to be creative, the speaker contrasts the organic limitations of human imagination with AI's capacity to explore new territories in various fields, including Go and music. The rapid evolution of AI and its potential to develop into forms of intelligence beyond our current comprehension are highlighted, suggesting that AI may bring about a new kind of creativity that could surpass human capabilities.
🌳 AI's Potential in Addressing Climate and Energy Crises
The speaker posits that AI could be instrumental in tackling climate and energy challenges, suggesting that it may help develop more eco-friendly technologies. The paragraph addresses concerns about AI's energy consumption and its potential role in creating sustainable solutions, emphasizing that AI, when used correctly, can contribute positively to overcoming global crises.
📊 Balancing AI Development with Social and Ethical Considerations
This paragraph examines the ethical and social implications of AI, particularly in relation to issues of bias and the potential for AI to reinforce existing prejudices. The speaker discusses the challenges of controlling AI's output and the need for responsible development to ensure that AI serves the greater good, without exacerbating societal divisions.
🌐 The Future of Trust and Financial Systems in the Age of AI
The speaker contemplates the future of trust in financial systems, considering the role of AI in creating new forms of currency and financial instruments. The paragraph emphasizes the need for AI to contribute to building greater trust within society, rather than fostering distrust, and the importance of creating financial systems that are accessible and beneficial to all.
🌍 The End of Nations and the Potential of AI in Human Flourishing
In this final paragraph, the speaker addresses the philosophical and ethical questions surrounding AI's role in shaping human society and the concept of nations. The discussion touches on the potential for AI to create new 'fictions' that could enhance human flourishing and the moral obligations humans have in determining the direction of AI development, while also considering the enduring importance of nations and cooperation.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡AI
💡Financial System
💡Regulation
💡Trust
💡Risk Management
💡Central Banks
💡Accountability
💡Political Implications
💡Social Crisis
💡Economic Growth
💡Sustainability
Highlights
AI's potential to complicate the financial system beyond human understanding, leading to a crisis of trust and control.
The importance of human understanding in the financial system to maintain trust and prevent a shift of power to AI.
AI as a tool that could surpass human understanding of finance, creating new financial devices and strategies.
The historical role of financial systems in creating trust between strangers through mechanisms like money and bonds.
The risk of AI-driven financial systems becoming too complex for human oversight, leading to potential crises.
The need for regulation and oversight to ensure AI remains accountable and understandable in finance.
AI's potential to create and understand financial instruments better than humans due to its data-driven nature.
The historical comparison of AI's impact to the Industrial Revolution, with the potential for both positive and negative outcomes.
The potential for AI to exacerbate existing crises of trust in experts and political systems.
The importance of human institutions in managing the development and use of AI to prevent unchecked growth and potential misuse.
AI's potential creativity in areas like music and financial devices, exploring new landscapes beyond human imagination.
The rapid evolution of AI and its potential to develop capabilities far beyond our current understanding within a short time frame.
The role of central banks in potentially leading international cooperation for responsible AI use in finance.
The challenge of energy consumption and sustainability in the development and use of AI technologies.
AI's potential to help address the climate and energy crises by optimizing resource use and creating eco-friendly technologies.
The ethical considerations of AI creating new 'fictions' or societal constructs that could impact human flourishing.
The importance of maintaining human involvement in the loop to ensure AI aligns with human values and goals.
The potential for AI to revolutionize financial systems by creating new forms of trust and currency.
Transcripts
you all uh great to see you here uh we
have discussed at this Summit uh where
AI is going uh where Financial firms and
central banks are planning to hope to do
with AI uh but also how they're planning
to manage risks that they can see
stemming from AI uh and I hope we can
have a discussion around sort of zooming
out from the world of of um Ai and and
the financial world and and and think
about more opportunities and threats for
our broader Society uh but if I may I
I've heard you say that um you don't see
any serious attempts to regulate uh the
financial system as we see it in the
world to actually be at a level where
humans can understand it and given that
starting point uh and given uh the uh
the issues around AI it's not looking
like the financial system is going to
get any easier to understand um so um if
we think that this is going to play out
how would you think um that regulators
and supervisors should should think
about um uh AI in the context of the
already complicated financial industry
we're operating
in well that's a very important question
and I think what we should understand is
that people need to understand Finance
at the present moment I think that maybe
1% of the population really understands
how the Financial system works what
happens if this number goes down to zero
no human being no president no prime
minister no nobody in the Central Bank
understand Finance anymore because AI
has made it too complicated uh this
could lead to a political and social
crisis of a Kind we've never encountered
before it could lead to power shifting
from humans to algorithms to Al
forms of intelligence and maybe I'll
start by saying what Finance is what
does the financial sector do you know
Farmers grow food that we eat H uh
workers produce the textiles that we
wear what does the financial system do
it creates trust this is the product
ultimately the product of the financial
system is trust money for instance is a
mechanis ISM to create instant trust
between millions of strangers I go into
a shop I meet a stranger that I never
met in my life I give them this piece of
paper and they give me food in exchange
and bonds and uh shares and so forth
people have invented so many different
Financial
devices over history but what they
really do is create trust between
millions of of people so they can share
their resources their knowledge and work
together towards common goals now until
today the only entities that could
understand Financial devices like money
or bonds or shares and could create
could invent new Financial devices with
human beings hes did not understand
money we bought and sold horses for
money but the horses didn't understand
money which is why they couldn't for
instance unite a million horses together
now ai is the first tool that we created
that can actually understand Finance
better than us because you know Finance
in the end it's the easiest thing for an
AI to to really understand it's only
data it's only information to wash
dishes AI needs to do something in the
in the real world in the physical world
that's difficult but to understand
Finance it's only information in
information out now the danger is that
AI would be able on the one hand in in
the hands of Bad actors AI could destroy
trust between people and on the other
hand the main trust will be between
different AI
systems so just imagine a
scenario when most of the financial
activity in the world is being done by
AI humans have lost the ability to
understand most of the financial system
it's too complicated for our brains and
there is a financial
crisis and no un politician is able to
understand what is happening we have to
rely on the AI to tell us what is the
crisis and what are the potential
Solutions the political
implications are dangerous on on on
different levels but most clearly it's
really giving
control of a very important part of the
world and a very important part of
politics to a nonhuman intelligence that
we cannot regulate and
supervise so I I take from this that
this is a very sobering message so let's
let's unpack that a bit further um um
you you can say that okay only 1%
perhaps understand the financial system
I would claim that uh most most of us
happily step into an era plane having
very vague understanding of how that
works but we trust that people who don't
even know each other we certainly don't
know them uh take us from A to B without
the plane crashing uh but it sounds from
what I hear you saying that this last
percent if that goes down to zero then
we are all in in deep trouble uh and and
one way to create a catchphrase from
what you're saying is uh no further AI
without further
trust um and I would say that um we
might be in a lucky situation that we
are at the early phases of exploring AI
or at least at least for the moment
assume that uh you have warned that if
we're not careful the decis makers in
the future might sort of be reduced to
puppets and the real decision makers are
just algorithms but um if we don't want
to get on that path or I mean the
history is not sort of or if the future
is not sort of predetermined we can
actually decide where we want to go what
do you think we need to do now with the
with the tools we have at hand to make
sure that we don't end up in that
situation neither in the financial
system and and certainly not when it
comes to decision making as a whole in
our in our
countries uh we need to prevent AI from
becoming completely
unfathomable that if we give it a lot of
power to make decisions about human
beings about human
society uh we need the ability to
understand it and to regulate it uh this
is this is the crucial condition and
there is a very big difference between a
situation when 1% of you Humanity
understand something and
0% that's a very big difference and then
your example with the airplane is
perfect I mean yes this is why we have
experts We Trust experts in many
different fields with airplanes with
medicine it's the same with Finance we
don't need everybody to understand
everything this is this is really
impossible but if you think about for
instance the the one of the last big
financial crisis the one of 20072 2008
it started with a failure of Regulation
over new Financial tools new Financial
devices the cdos that some very very
bright people invented but almost nobody
understood and that therefore there was
an oversight of Regulation now imagine a
situation maybe in 10 years when AIS
create a new Financial device which is
orders of or orders of magnitude more
complic at than cdos you need to go of
trillions of of of data data points to
to to understand this this financial
device we can't do that but the AIS can
for a couple of years it works perfectly
well it generates a lot of trust it
generates economic growth profits and
then something goes wrong and nobody
knows why and again we can ask the AI to
tell us what has happened and what to do
about it but uh this is a very dangerous
situation and also the the even if it
gives us good advice it it it it raises
a question about whether the public will
continue to trust the political system
like you vote for politicians who are
supposed to make these decisions but
they are no longer able to understand
what is happening we already are in a
situ sitation when the public is losing
trust in experts in politicians in
Democratic
institutions um this could really
exacerbate this crisis of trust between
the general public and the supposed
experts and politicians uh that that
hopefully understand what is happening
and and
regulated so going to your um role your
day job as a as a distinguished
historian uh I mean I I get that there's
uh risks around artificial intelligence
we could possibly the greatest
transition that the world has has faced
but as an historian you know this is not
the first big transition we have seen in
the world perhaps the biggest but but
certainly Industrial Revolution general
purpose Technologies the uh the Advent
of modern democracies are were were
pretty groundbreaking shakeups
a couple of revolutions thrown in in a
Wars pretty serious shakeups um uh and
and um so my I guess my question to you
is that um what what can we learn from
the past here to try to avoid having to
land in that sort of situation that
you're warning from as in
historian um all good examples from
history where people actually manag to
avoid getting things to wrong and that
we can take inspiration
from yeah I think humans are extremely
adaptable and you know every everything
we invent has both negative and positive
potential you invent a knife you can use
it to murder somebody or to save their
life in surgery or to cut salad so there
is always both of these potentials and
uh over time humans learn the dangers
and they they understand how to employ
the technology of the new structure in
in in the best way the problem is the
transition period the problem is the
path even if in the end we get it right
on the way there we often have to go
through dangerous and failed experiments
so let's take the Industrial Revolution
as an example that when machines started
to transform the economy and Society in
the 18th century the 19th century there
are a lot of Doomsday prophecies about
what the machines will do and looking
back from 2024 we can say that in the
end we got it more or less right we
learned how to use steam engines and
electricity and trains in order to build
more prosperous and even more people
peaceful
societies than in the 18th century but
the the big problem was was the failed
experiment on the
way uh modern imperialism for instance
was a very big failed experiment in how
to build industrial societies there are
a lot of people in the 19th century that
argued that the only way to build an
effective industrial society was to
build an Empire
because unlike previous agricultural
societies which were more or less self-
sustaining an industrial society needed
a lot of raw materials and Global
markets and the only way to do that was
to build an Empire so imperialism with
the the millions of victims and the
Terrible Things it did was really a
failed experiment in how to build an
industrial society
communism was another failed experiment
in how to build an industrial society
and that a lot of people in the 1920s
1930s even later thought that the best
way to build an industrial society was
what the Soviets were doing and it took
decades and tens of millions of victims
to realize that no this is not the best
way to use electricity and steam engines
and trains Nazism was another failed
experiment in building an industrial
society now if we had to go through
these kinds of failed experiments with
imperialism and totalitarianism and
world wars in order to learn how to make
the best use of electricity and the
internal combustion engine and trains
and things like that what will happen in
the 21st century when we have to learn
how to use
far more powerful
technology now ai is again potentially
orders of magnitude more powerful than
anything we saw in the industrial
revolution because AI is the First Tool
in history that can make decisions by
itself and can create new ideas by
itself steam engines could not decide
how to use themselves we decided what to
do with them even atom bombs could not
create new
ideas but AI can make decisions by
itself this is the very definition of an
AI it's a a machine that can learn
things we don't know and can make
decisions independently and can create
completely new ideas that no human being
have ever thought about learning how to
use these tools in a good way is likely
to be more
complicated than learning how to use
steam
engines now we can say that in the end
it will be okay we'll get it right as a
historian I'm concerned about the way
not about the end result if we have to
go through another cycle of Empires and
totalitarian regimes and world wars
based on AI
uh this is very very bad
news well it sounds like um to see a
silver lining in
this we will get it right after we've
tried everything else imperialism
communism Nazism
and maybe to give a further positive
spin is that we and our children
grandchild Etc will have knowledge that
they didn't have back then yeah so uh
let's hope that we could sort of fast
forward through that period or avoid it
all together uh and I think one of the
ways to do that is to be a be mindful of
uh uh the risks technology is fantastic
but used in the wrong way it can be uh
very dangerous um I I think I have some
people in the audience there might
disagree that it's inevitable that AI
will take over decision making but it
will certainly influence decision making
we have discussed um whether uh monetary
policy decisions is possible to automate
the answer is yes but as human beings we
always want to have um someone
accountable or someone to
blame uh and that's a deep human uh um
feature in us that we ultimately we want
to interact with one another rather than
than a machine machine is helpful but
you we we are still Still Human enough
to to want to uh interact with one
another at the end of the day I I have I
I think I know the answer to your
question now given that um your view
about what the financial
crisis um the upbringing of the
financial crisis some 15 years ago but
still I I I'll have a shot at this so
the mission of the bank for
international settlements is to support
central banks uh through intern National
Corporation to pursue monetary and
financial stability I think personally
the beauty of central banks is that they
are not as dependent on um short-term
political decision making as many other
parts of the public sector so central
banks if they operate well and has a
wellworking mandate they can actually
take the longer
perspective um and um do you think that
there could be a role for central banks
in sort of Drive International
coroporation
um where AI is used with care uh that
the Central Banking Community can sort
of show good practice if you will uh and
and sure there would be others who has
another different agenda uh but that is
something that um well we would have to
leave to the law enforcement agencies
and ultimately military defense but do
you think there is a there is some sort
of way out of your rather dire forecasts
yeah absolutely again I'm if it was
doomed there was no point having this
conversation that's reassuring thank
you the history is never deterministic
we always have options the same
technology can always be used in
different ways again looking back to the
20th century you look at industrial
technology it it was used to create
totalitarian regimes but also liberal
democracies you look at North Korea and
South Korea today they have access to
exactly the same technology using it in
a very different way now um the the how
to make sure that we are using
technology wisely I wouldn't trust some
technological Gadget to do it for us we
need to have humans in the loop but I
wouldn't trust any individual Geniuses
or charismatic charismatic leaders
either um the solutions that we again
and again see in history is
institutions I know that people often
find institutions again complicated and
and bureaucratic and and but this is the
best thing that humans have managed to
come up with and we need to build good
institutions this is the only thing that
can really protect us from the most
dangerous potential of of AI and also
other
Technologies I would say
that two things that are very important
for a a a bank when coming to to think
about the regulation of AI is first of
all to make sure that the AI remains
accountable and and understandable if we
reach a point when we can no longer
understand it then at least in
Democratic Society is um this is really
the end of
democracy if if a democratic public can
no longer understand and hold someone
accountable for financial decisions this
is a very large part of what politics is
about is about Finance is is about the
the the economy and um we of course will
need to rely also on technology to help
us understand
AI but we'll need to keep humans in the
loop
and for this we need to build good human
institutions the other point is to keep
the focus on the issue of trust and
going back to what we spoke in the
beginning uh money is really trust money
is not made of gold or silver or paper
or anything money is trust between
people this is the goal of the financial
system so when you come to regulate the
financial system the key question is is
how do we make it easier to create more
trust between more people if we achieve
this then the goal is
achieved you said we should keep humans
in the loop I think uh we should be more
ambitious than that uh and and let me
before I open the floor for questions
from the audience just point out one
thing that is I think strong
characteristics humankind which is that
um we have dreams um and then some
things that we do are not entirely
rational and some things can be outright
a bit crazy or uh be revealed as a pure
accident um let me take some examples um
the idea to put a man on the moon uh
wasn't entirely rational would probably
not have survived today's budget
committees but it worked in the 60s
thank God for that um uh accidental uh
discovery was the discovery of
penicillin or Alexander Fleming was a
very good marketer uh but certainly a
very
inspiring uh um
example I don't think personally that AI
could replicate these sort of events
that are not entirely rational or sort
of happen by by accident so from where I
see it um uh humans will still play an
important role to to create the sort of
quantum leaps that these two examples
uh give uh or do you think that AI will
take over those as
well I think that a lot of people say
that AI will never be creative but it is
already very
creative uh you look at examples like
the game of Go which was one of the the
first time that really the world woke up
to to the age of AI uh go is a board
game a bit like chess but much much much
more complicated people have been
playing go for 3,000 years in East Asia
it has been considered for thousands of
years one of the most important out
forms that every cultured person should
know intire schools of thought about how
to play go and different
strategies then Alpha go came along and
within a few weeks or months
revolutionized the game it's started
playing go in a way that no humans ever
thought of playing for 3,000 years what
turned what what what what became clear
is because we are organic beings that
evolved by Evolution our imagination and
the way we think is limited to let's say
a certain area within the landscape of
playing
go and for 3,000 years we only exploded
this limited landscape this limited area
AI is not organic it doesn't think like
a human or a chimpanzee or a dog it
makes decisions in a completely
different way and within a very short
time it started exploring completely new
or alen areas within this landscape of
go what's true of go is is true of more
and more areas in science in art you
know AI is now composing music so people
say yes but it only learns from previous
human Symphonies and and poems and songs
that's true for now but this is true of
us as well a human composer also relies
on
previous experience or previous
exemplars but already now ai is
beginning to explore new areas in the
landscape of music and maybe most
important to understand is that AI is
just a tiny baby the AI of today is just
the the you know if you thinking again
in evolutionary terms it's like we are
10
years from the beginning of organic
evolution on
Earth if you go back 4 billion years ago
go to the beginning of organic life so
think that you are 10 years from the
emergence of the first life
forms and can you even Envision
dinosaurs or human
beings now ai is is is just beginning
and but it's its evolution is much much
faster than organic evolution it is
millions of times faster so if the AI of
today are like
amibas we might encounter the AI
tyranosaurus Rex within a decade or
two and we have no idea what it will be
capable of doing again all these
discussions of AI 10 years ago nobody
except a very small community of experts
was talking about
AI so think about the previous 10 years
and try to imagine where we will be in
10 or 20 years and uh in terms of
creativity I have no doubt given what we
already know that AI is capable of maybe
a different kind of creativity but
precisely because of that it's really
going to be a game Cher in in so many
fields because you know the the the
initials AI people think it stands for
out arcial intelligence but there is
nothing artificial about the new forms
of of of
AI they are developing on their own it's
better to think about AI as standing for
alien intelligence because it really
thinks and creates in an alien way a
different way from us and this is even
true of
Finance again I think about financial
device
as a kind of out for the first person
who came up with the idea of a bond or
of a currency or of Bitcoin this is a
sort of art it's very creative very
imaginative so I think we'll see AI
creativity also in this field coming
coming up with new types of financial
devices that no human being would ever
imagine creating
I would say that uh those financial um
products that you pointed out to they
came up because they satisfied someone's
need and I think that is something that
is hugely important uh among human
beings that we are very good at figuring
out a what needs do we have do we want
to satisfy sometimes we don't know that
we had needs that we wanted to satisfy
with Steve Jobs with his iPhone they
explored uh but uh I I'm more optimistic
than you uh and I'm going to stick to
those institutions actually uh because I
think I agree that that those are our
best way to organize and coordinate uh
sort of AI development in a in a
responsible way not everybody will join
that Journey uh but if enough people do
it enough institutions are on that
journey I think we I think I still think
we have a good shot I I certainly like
being an optimist uh more than anything
else but uh let's open up the floor for
questions from the audience and please
state your name and and I think we have
a new record in the name number of so
let's start with the gentleman up to the
left side and please state your name
first and then your question to M
Professor Harari thank you Cecilia um my
name is hien um thank you very much um
to Professor Hari as well it's been
really privileged listening to you so my
question is really goes in the same ve
of of a recent discussion is about human
versus AI um the human is more
intelligent ingenious form right I mean
it's organic form we know how to sustain
and we sustain over last years you know
the climate crisis um you know so where
we are today and if you look at the
future um we cannot look at the AI in
isolation right there are other external
factors to play and in particular the
climate right the sustainability aspect
um AI is feed on electricity electricity
then feed on these sort of Natural
Resources which are dep depleting and
these kind of things so how do you sort
of see that you know AI is sort of
surviving or AI sort of overcoming those
challenges which human have and human
still have the ability in sort of to go
through those kind of another um round
of challenges you know um so just wanted
to get your perspective on this that
energy uh consumption is going to hold
back on the AI development it it well
energy consumption as as we uh moves low
right as we actually increase more
capacities um there will be more
consumption right and if we actually
start feeding more energies and
electricity I think it's going to have
the sort of downside effect on the
environment and the natural resources
all of these things so somewhere
actually it's going to come to the Hal
right um now human can survive without
electricity but AI would not right I
that's a that's a cude example probably
your question again is well I think
understood the question okay and I on
this I may have something more positive
to
say uh and I'm not against AI I don't
think we can just stop developing it and
I think it has a lot of positive
potential one of the positive potentials
is to help us deal with the climate
crisis and with the energy crisis I
don't think that it's uh given the the
current political and economic situation
around the world uh solving the climate
crisis by stopping all economic growth
is is impossible and and unwanted
because there are billions of people
around the world whose living conditions
need a significant Improvement and you
know if every person in India in Africa
in South
America enjoys the same living
conditions as the average person in
Europe or the United States with current
technology the ecology will collapse but
on the other hand we can't say to people
in India or in Africa no you cannot
enjoy what the Europeans have so we need
to develop better technology uh more
eco-friendly technology and we need to
do it fast and this is something that AI
when it's used correctly can certainly
help help us with uh the basic uh
understanding is that there is no
shortage of energy in the universe we
just don't know how to tap it and how to
use it in the in the best way in the
most eco-friendly way and I think this
is one field where AI can be extremely
helpful thank you let's take a question
on this side so um why don't we take one
uh over
there yeah you get to choose if you you
need to hold your hands up otherwise you
will lose the
chance woman that's
nice so thank you very much um it's a
pleasure and an honor to be talking to
you your books are fantastic so uh
Gemini happened um Google's Gemini this
was a couple of months
ago uh many would argue that there was
decision to put the finger on the scale
so that the the outcomes that
individuals would see when they were
using Gemini were much more PC I don't
know if everybody in the room is
familiar with this this but you would
put in show me pictures of the founders
of the United States and you would see
an African-American woman
um I was in Silicon Valley when this
just happened and and I was talking to
different people out there like where
does this go because in the end these
are individuals that are prompting
seeking information and getting feedback
from algorithms and some of the
libertarian points of views that were
shared with me are
in the end individuals are going to see
what basically the AI has been trained
that they want to see it's the human
bias that this is going to be almost
like a reinforcement
Loop and and I'm trying to and and so
then the next question is so okay in the
United States we have the southeast
where we have maybe we see lots of
people of a certain race and other
places right like where does this go and
so I'm I continue to poke at this
question and I'm trying to Recon it with
what you saying about it's trusted
institutions because I'm having a hard
time seeing how this sort of plays out
in a way that isn't what we're all
afraid of you know humans attacking each
other yeah I mean you know we had these
kinds of of debates and problems
throughout history every time a new
information technology comes along there
is a big discussion about censorship and
you know when when the printing press
was invented the big best sellers of
early modern Europe they were not
scientific books hardly anybody read
Galileo cicus the big best sellers were
uh uh witch hunting manuals how to
identify and kill witches very popular
also popular were these extremist
religious literature the printing press
was to some extent responsible for the
Scientific Revolution but also for the
European Witch Hunt craze which was a
modern not a medieval phenomenon and
also for the wars of
religion so they had a big issue with
what kind of things you are allowed to
print and we have a big issue with what
kind of things AI is allowed to say the
difference is that AI has agency unlike
printing presses the printing press
printed whatever you told it to print AI
is learning by itself any attempt to try
and kind of in advance determine what
these AIS will say down the road is
ultimately doomed to failure because
they are learning and developing this is
a huge issue for democracies it's even a
bigger issue for dictatorships one thing
that people often miss is that dictators
are terrified of of these AIS even more
than democratic governments because
think about it what is the most
dangerous thing for a dictator the most
most dangerous thing for a dictator is a
subordinate more powerful than the
dictator that the dictator does not know
how to control dictators usually control
their subordinates their agents by
terrifying them but you cannot terrorize
and AI think about a chatbot let's say
in the in in in Russia now a human is
afraid to say certain things in Russia
because he or she could be punished but
you cannot send a chatbot to the
gulag so how do you make sure that the
chatbot doesn't start to say all kinds
of things that it is not supposed to
say and um and there is in in essence
it's a new challenge for all kinds of
human regimes because it's the first
time in history that regimes either
Democratic or or dictatorial need to
figure out
how to
control agents entities with agency
which have no emotions which cannot be
terrorized or punished or or or whatever
so it's it's it's going to be a very
interesting right for for all
governments around the world how to deal
with this issue no doubt uh let's have
one last question on this side uh
Vincent you get to choose
again or if you can combine your
questions maybe you can coordinate there
yeah we'll see but these two are your
last my name is fabiio and I make it
very short I liked what you mentioned
money is trust among people and the goal
is to have more trust with more people
could you elaborate a bit what would be
the best next action to reach that goal
and maybe as a side remark is this maybe
the chance to overcome the concept of of
Nations I think we need at this stage to
overcome the concept of Nations
gentlemen at the front do you have a
related question or something completely
I do all right fire aways um because
this is because Nations I think in in
your terminology on your thought would
be uh would be fictions um so so um You
On a related note um the space that the
human go player can operate in is
limited by its evolutionary biology and
so on right whereas Nai is not um the
fictional constructs that we can come up
with as human beings are limited by our
our evolutionary biology as well um but
an AI is not could there be fictions
that could that could be could result in
human flourishing which far exceeds that
which uh we could come up with on our
own and are we morally obliged therefore
to give up to our robot overlords and
allow them to determine what the
fictions should be that we are then
pursuing to maximize human flourishing
all right the end of Nations and the
well sort of end of humans uh you all
have a short the short the short answer
is no very dangerous to just trust the
AIS yes they can create completely new
kinds of fictions but fiction again it
can be helpful it can be very dangerous
nations are a good example yes Nations
is something that we created in our
imagination they exist only in our
Collective imagination
um they can be very dangerous if we
don't know how to use them leading to
Wars and conflict and so forth but they
are also so far one of the best
inventions one one of the most best
creations of humanity uh because Nations
enable us to go beyond the immediate
circle of friends and family that we
know personally and care about millions
of strangers that we never met you know
patriotism in its in its best form what
patriotism means is that I'm paying
taxes so that strangers on the other
side of the country will get good health
care this is patriotism and people who
imagine that without Nations we would be
living in some kind of of a kind of
Utopia no at present we would just
disintegrate into tribal chaos with
people caring only about their immediate
uh uh friends and family yes we need to
find ways for Nations too to cooperate
between them but this is the key not to
abolish Nations we are not there yet in
in terms of what we are capable of
historically the question is how do we
make them cooperate instead of fighting
each other and uh here yes we need new
imaginative Creations also in the field
of Finance which again should focus on
building
trust so to take one a famous example if
when I look at at Bitcoin as an as as as
a as a historian I don't like it because
this is a money built on
distrust the central idea of Bitcoin is
basically electronic gold that we don't
trust the banks the governments so we
don't want to give them the ability to
create as much money as they like so we
create this Bitcoin it's a currency of
distrust I do think that the future
belongs to electronic money but what
we've seen over the last centuries is
that it's actually a good idea to give
Banks and governments the ability to
create more and more money uh in order
to build more trust within
Society so I'm not sure what kind what
money would look like in 20 years or 30
years but I hope it will be a a currency
of Greater trust and not a currency of
distrust we get it
done and it's also reassuring to hear uh
that institutions as a future and
countries has a future that will be uh
happy dreams for me tonight and uh we're
going to talk to you at some point in
the future and hope that we are still
here in Flesh and Bones and not in our
algorithmic forms thank you very much
Professor arari I can say that I have a
very happy audience in front of me and
we're giving you a hand for us
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