EP. 112: Red Light Therapy + Methylene Blue | Dr. Mike Belkowski
Summary
TLDRDr. Tina interviews her friend Dr. Mike Bilowski, CEO of BioLite, to discuss red light therapy and their new methylene blue product Bio. They explain the synergistic benefits of combining red light and methylene blue, both of which help boost mitochondrial health and energy production. Dr. Mike details how methylene blue selectively helps dysfunctional cells and accumulates in the brain to provide cognitive benefits. They also touch on the downsides of excess nitric oxide, the antimicrobial properties of methylene blue, using red light on reproductive organs to potentially increase testosterone, and more.
Takeaways
- 😀 Methylene blue is a powerful antiviral and can help treat conditions like West Nile virus, Ebola, Zika, herpes and hepatitis A.
- 💊 Methylene blue selectively targets metabolically inefficient cells that need the most help.
- 🧠 Methylene blue accumulates in the brain providing benefits for cognition, mood, depression and neurodegenerative diseases.
- ⚡️ Methylene blue and red light therapy work synergistically to boost mitochondrial health, energy, circulation and decrease inflammation.
- 🔬 Excess nitric oxide inhibits oxygen from entering the electron transport chain needed to produce ATP energy.
- 😷 Methylene blue can help treat urinary tract infections and vaginal atrophy issues in women.
- 🩺 Methylene blue was the first pharmaceutical drug ever, used historically as an antimalarial.
- 🏋️♂️ Nitric oxide supplements may acutely boost energy and pumps but chronically high levels can decrease testosterone.
- 🤯 Methylene blue is an antidote for pesticide poisoning and helps detox chemical pollutants.
- 💡 Take methylene blue earlier in the day if it affects your sleep. The half life is around 12 hours.
Q & A
What are some of the key benefits of methylene blue?
-Some key benefits of methylene blue include improving mitochondrial health and energy production, boosting brain function and cognition, providing antiviral and antimicrobial properties, and helping to treat conditions like depression and dementia.
How does methylene blue interact with nitric oxide in the body?
-Methylene blue inhibits nitric oxide production. While nitric oxide can provide some acute benefits like vasodilation, chronic high levels can become neurotoxic. By inhibiting nitric oxide, methylene blue allows more oxygen to enter the mitochondria and improve energy production.
What makes methylene blue synergistic with red light therapy?
-Both methylene blue and red light therapy work to improve mitochondrial health and function. They do this through different mechanisms, but combining them has a synergistic effect, like "pouring gasoline onto the fire" of their mitochondrial-boosting properties.
How safe is pharmaceutical grade methylene blue at recommended doses?
-Pharmaceutical grade methylene blue is considered very safe at doses from 8 to 30 mg per day. Much higher doses up to 400 mg per day are still considered safe for short term use. It has been used as a pharmaceutical drug for over 100 years.
Can red light therapy help increase testosterone levels in men?
-There is limited research but significant anecdotal evidence that shining red light on the testicles can help boost testosterone production in men. Some people have shown lab test results confirming major testosterone increases after starting red light treatments.
Why should you not combine red light therapy with infrared sauna?
-The heat from an infrared sauna can inhibit the benefits of red light therapy. While using them on the same day is fine, you should not use red light while inside the infrared sauna itself.
How might methylene blue and red light therapy help treat illnesses?
-Combined they can be extremely powerful antivirals, with some dramatic case reports of illnesses resolved in just 48 hours. The combination boosts immune function and metabolic health to help the body fight infections.
What causes vaginal atrophy and urinary tract issues in aging women?
-Declining estrogen levels leading to vaginal tissue thinning and dryness is a major cause. This also increases vulnerability to UTIs. Maintaining vaginal health and using antimicrobials like methylene blue may help prevent UTIs.
Can methylene blue help remove toxins and pollutants from the body?
-Yes, methylene blue is known as an antidote for removing many chemical toxins and environmental pollutants. It seems to bind to toxins and facilitate their safe removal from the body.
Why avoid taking methylene blue too close to bedtime?
-For some people, taking methylene blue later in the day can overstimulate the body and make it harder to fall asleep normally. It's best to take it early/mid-day unless you know late doses don't affect your sleep.
Outlines
🗣 Introducing the guests and topics to be discussed
Dr. Tina introduces her guest Dr. Mike Bilowski, CEO of BioLite, her favorite red light therapy company. They will be discussing methylene blue and red light therapy, which work synergistically to boost mitochondrial health by increasing energy, decreasing inflammation, and improving circulation.
🚫 Don't combine red light therapy with infrared sauna therapy
Dr. Mike explains that you should not combine red light therapy with infrared sauna therapy, as the heat from the sauna inhibits the benefits of red light. You can do them separately within 30-60 minutes of each other.
💙 Methylene blue and nitric oxide inhibition benefits
Dr. Mike explains how methylene blue inhibits nitric oxide, allowing more oxygen into cells to produce ATP energy. This improves mitochondrial and metabolic health. Excess nitric oxide over time can become toxic and increase risk of neurodegenerative diseases.
😷 Methylene blue helps detox chemical poisons
Dr. Mike notes that methylene blue is known for detoxing chemical poisons and overdoses, whether from pharmaceuticals, pollutants, or other toxins that accumulate in the body over time.
♂️ Anecdotal benefits of red light therapy for testosterone
While there is no research yet, Dr. Mike shares there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that using red light therapy on the testicles can significantly boost testosterone levels.
🌡 Difficulty using sauna in summer heat
Dr. Tina and Dr. Mike discuss how they both find it difficult to use the infrared sauna regularly during the summer months when it is already hot outside.
😷 Methylene blue helps treat chronic UTI issues
Dr. Tina shares how taking methylene blue regularly helps prevent recurrent UTIs, likely due to its antimicrobial properties. This is very helpful for women as they age and estrogen drops.
👩⚕️ Importance of doctors keeping up with latest research
Dr. Tina emphasizes the importance of doctors staying current on latest research and common treatments, yet notes many of her colleagues do not make this a priority.
😀 Methylene blue helps antidote pesticide poisoning
Dr. Tina shares research showing methylene blue can act as an antidote for pesticide poisoning, which is helpful given her frequent exposure to agricultural spraying.
😴 Caution taking methylene blue too late affects sleep
Dr. Mike advises caution taking methylene blue too late in the day, as its 12 hour half life may make it harder to fall asleep for some people who get overstimulated.
💊 Methylene blue is extremely safe at common doses
Dr. Mike emphasizes that at the typical daily doses of 20-30 mg, methylene blue is extremely safe with no known side effects. Even doses of up to 400 mg per day are still considered safe.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡mitochondria
💡methylene blue
💡red light therapy
💡nitric oxide
💡antimicrobial
💡detoxification
💡hormones
💡synergy
💡cognition
💡glyphosate
Highlights
Methylene blue was the first pharmaceutical drug ever, used as an antimalarial in the late 1800s
Methylene blue selectively helps the cells in your body that need it most and accumulates in your brain
Methylene blue and red light therapy work synergistically together to boost mitochondrial health
Excess nitric oxide over time becomes a neurotoxin, increasing risk of cardiovascular disease and neurodegeneration
Carbon dioxide is actually a better vasodilator than nitric oxide because it also oxygenates tissues
Red light therapy and methylene blue are the only two things known to dissociate nitric oxide and allow oxygen into mitochondria
Methylene blue is a potent antidote for chemical poisonings and environmental pollutants we accumulate
Anecdotal evidence shows red light therapy to the testicles increases testosterone, but no formal research yet
Beer is actually an estrogen tincture that directly promotes estrogen production
Marijuana also decreases testosterone levels in men
Methylene blue is antimicrobial and prevents UTIs in women
The liquid form of methylene blue doesn't stain teeth and tongue as long as troches do
Take methylene blue earlier in the day if it affects your sleep
Methylene blue is extremely safe even at higher doses like 400mg per day
A skin test with methylene blue can show if your skin cells are oxygen deprived
Transcripts
on this episode of the Dr Tina show I
invited my friend Dr Mike belowski back
on the show he is the CEO of BioLite my
favorite red light company and he's
released a new product called bio which
is a methylene blue product that I am
totally in love with I wanted to bring
them on the show so we could talk all
things methylene blue and red light they
are two of my favorite tools that I use
for boosting my mitochondrial health and
they work synergistic together to do
awesome things inside the body Dr Mike
and I always have a great time talking
and nerding out and learning from one
another and this episode was no
different I learned so many new things
and I know you will too let's jump in Dr
Mike belowski thank you so much for
coming on the Dr Tina show yet again you
are a return guest and you are the CEO
of BioLite my favorite red light company
and you have come on today we're going
to talk about methylene blue and your
new product and red light combo so I'm
very excited to have you Dr Tina thanks
for having me on as always it's always
it's always fun when we get together and
have a little conversation I know we do
we talk about good stuff it's always
I've been on your podcast a few times
and we always get into good conversation
so this one will be no different so you
recently were so helpful to me I had
that skin cancer scare thank God it was
negative and I immediately went into
research mode and started researching
red light for skin cancer I mean I was
just trying to cover all my bases so I
reached out to my smartest friends you
were one of them and I was like hey what
do you know about this and you were so
gracious and helpful and for me in my
research and then you mentioned that you
guys were just releasing this bio
product this methylene blue and I got
very excited you sent me some and I've
been using it I love it I love methylene
blue so let's talk about red light and
methylene blue and how it all goes
together hold on so I've also got my
favorite BioLite unit which you are you
guys discontinuing this one um in a
sense yes just because we're upgrading
to a
newer model of the shine so the quote
unquote newer shine which is going to be
officially released here probably in
November aesthetically it looks nice I
don't know if you've seen pictures of it
but functionally it has more LEDs within
the exact same surface area as the one
you just showed us so instead of 12 LEDs
there's 15 so you can argue the pros and
cons of that but equally or maybe most
importantly is there's a third function
because with yours Tina you can do red
and near infrared combo and so every
other row is red and then the alternate
rows are near infrared
correct yeah whereas on this new shine
when you do the red near infrared combo
all LEDs all 15 LEDs emit red and near
infrared at the same time oh fancy okay
yeah so that's one aspect and then what
I was ultimately getting to is there's a
fourth light setting because you can do
red near infrared combo you can do red
light only if you're treating the skin
or you can do near infrared light only
if you're treating deeper tissues like
the brain or organs what have you but
the fourth setting is red and near
infrared combo plus 40 htz puls
frequency and that 40 htz seems to be
good for pain red reduction amongst
other things but main main mainly pain
reduction so we're integrating this
pulse frequency into our into that shine
but also our panels in the panels you
can manually choose from zero Hertz if
you don't want pulse frequency up to
10,000 Hertz and there's various
frequencies like 20 30 40 and and Beyond
where they each have their own
individual benefits so we're starting to
get into this pulse frequency Health
aspect of light as well oh that's so
cool so are the is the pulse frequency
available on the older units I have or
just on the newer units going forward
just on the newer units going forward
it's a newer Innovation and so it's just
a new iteration for these upcoming
products we're releasing so cool I love
the smaller size of this I think
everybody should have a smaller sized
red light I love my big panel absolutely
but this thing is portable and it is so
userfriendly like it goes everywhere on
my body you know and I can utilize it
for virtually everything I and I know I
you and I have talked the past and if
folks want to hear about specifics they
can listen to the other episode we'll
link up here your past episode but I
actually like the near infrared heat
emission and I like putting it up
against my skin in certain areas when I
have pain or whatever it is and I you've
talked about how maybe that's not the
best like maybe we want it actually away
from the skin to some degree am I
breaking some rules here no you're
combining I think a couple of different
concepts I think more so along the lines
is of you don't want to combine red
light therapy with infrared sauna
therapy because it's the heat of the
infrared sauna when it gets to a certain
temperature and it's not that high it's
like 80 or 90 degrees if you have a
sauna that has those red lights I would
call them more so for Ambiance but if
you have the red lights in there or like
you I think you've tried even with our
restore panel to kind of use that while
you're in the sauna based on a recent
interview I did with Dr Prine arani who
is a one of the more uh well resp Ed
photobiomodulation researchers so
someone who's literally on the ground
floor researching red light therapy he
told me on his interview this past
summer I mean he he brought this up to
me that you should not be combining
infrared sauna and red light therapy
because the heat from the infrared sauna
inhibits any benefits you think you're
getting from the red light therapy so
it's not like it's a negative thing like
you're causing negative side effects
you're just not getting the red light
therapy benit you may think you are
getting so simply just separate them
apart you can do them in the same day
probably within an hour of each other or
30 minutes of each other but just don't
do them in tandem wow so don't use the
heat with the red light so if I'm using
this
panel does that mean do one or the other
or does no because those devices don't
put off enough quote unquote heat I
would call it maybe more of a warmth but
when we're talking like a deep de uh
detox like an infrared sauna that's more
so the heat we're talking about yes okay
so don't put the red lights in your
sauna that's interesting that's really
interesting you're the first person I've
heard say that I feel like you mentioned
that did you put a clip of that on your
Instagram yeah yeah I saw that okay no
this cements it well so I do use these
up close and I I don't get as close to
my big panel as I do this little guy but
these little guys and then you have the
glow unit as well I put those right up
to my skin often I mean I'll use them
I'll use them frequently actually the
little holder they come with I'll put
them right down on my desk right in
front of me where right where uh between
myself and my keyboard and I'll just
shine it up on my thyroid just to kind
of blast my neck and thyroid so I like
that option as well but anyway all that
to say these little units kickass and I
think everybody should have one they're
super handy and multi-purpose how does
the methyl and
blue interact like what how is this
improved with red light or is it am I
speculating no your spot on they are
major synergists with each other so I
mean methylene blue has its own set of
health benefits and properties and we
can get into that so methylene blue red
light Synergy yeah they each have their
own set of health benefits they're quite
similar but they operate differently
mechanistically and we can get into the
health benefits of methylene blue but a
lot of it is working on mitochondrial
health and then of course red light
therapy we know that's what it's working
upon as well and essentially when you
combine the to it's like pouring
gasoline onto the fire like the fire are
the benefits of the mitochondrial
boosting properties increasing energy
decreasing inflammation improving
circulation so on and so forth but again
when you combine them together it's like
dumping the gasoline on onto that
proverbial fire a couple of cool things
about methylene blue that I think people
should know and it's almost it's
mind-blowing even as I say it methylene
blue
selectively it has an innate
intelligence meaning it knows like once
you consume it whether you consume it
straight from the dropper or if you
combine it or dilute it with some water
it doesn't matter once you consume it
the methylene
blue helps the cells that need it most
so when you consume it in your body it
selectively helps the the cells that are
most metabolically inefficient or
metabolically dysfunctional which is
just another way of saying mitochondrial
dysfunction so for whatever reason and I
don't know how or why this this is but
again it selectively targets the cells
that need help the most secondly even
regardless of that first statement the
preponderance of the methylene blue does
accumulate in your brain which is why
you see all of these amazing brain
health benefits as it relates to
methylene blue and that's um depression
it's uh PTSD dementia anything
neurodegenerative just boosting your
energy and mood and and cognition all of
that happens with the consumption of
methylene blue um it's so good for
cognition I've used it for years and I
love how it I mean it's not great when
your mouth turns blue and you have to
get on video so I didn't drink it this
morning but I mean it seriously kicks
but to the point where my husband's like
Hey where's our methylene blue like
where's the blue stuff because it just
turns your brain on and it makes it
turns you into a machine it's great yeah
and just like red light therapy in the
sense that the the less energy you have
at a cellular level or the sicker you
are the more of a benefit you're going
to notice same thing with methylene blue
if you're metabolically inefficient so
you're low energy at a cellular level
and we know that our brain is the most
mitochondrial dense tissue meaning it's
the most energy intensive tissue in the
body then lo and behold when you add
something that is going to boost the
health and function of the the
mitochondria it makes sense that your
your brain is going to uh see a lot of
those benefits yeah it's good it's good
in the morning it's good with my coffee
I feel like there's a Synergy between
caffeine and methylene blue do you know
of any I don't know if I would say
Synergy but just based on what I've read
and this is a whole other rabbit hole if
you want to go down it but one of the
main reasons why methylene blue has so
many benefits is because it's a nitric
oxide
inhibitor which goes against the common
theme that that I grew up with which is
nitric oxide equals good well actually
nitric oxide equals unhealthy and again
that's a whole different die tribe we
can go down but all of that to say two
of the most powerful nitric oxide
inhibiting metabolites are methylene
blue and
caffeine so a lot of the benefits you're
getting from caffeine are actually from
its nitric oxide inhibiting properties
interesting you know I have been reading
various things here and there
about how maybe nitric oxide being high
Is Not Great And yet when I take
supplements that induce nitric oxide I
feel better I have a blast of energy but
I from the reading I've seen here and
there I'm like maybe this isn't so great
so like I'd love to hear what you know
about that so you're just not dispelling
you're Illuminating exactly what happens
when you start consuming nitric oxide
you get this acute benefit and it truly
is a benefit you get that more energy
you truly get that Vaso dilation and all
this goes back into the late 1980s early
1990s when chemists or or whomever were
in the Laboratories developing Viagra
and then Viagra came onto the scene and
the big hero of that drug is nitric
oxide leads to vasod dilation leads to
increased blood flow and then shortly
thereafter well during that whole halalu
of of Viagra of of course the mainstream
media ran away with that the scientists
took that to heart and it was like
nitric oxide equals good nitric oxide
equals healthy nitric oxide equals
vasodilation which equals good but
that's only part of the story and we'll
we'll get to it here in a moment then we
have shortly after that the bodybuilder
community and they run away with this
whole concept of nitric oxide and
vasodilation and how that gives you a
bigger pump and how it gives you more
oxygenation and all this stuff which is
inherently false and again I grew up on
this Paradigm so when I learned this not
too long ago my world got flipped a
little bit upside down and sideways and
so the reason why let me back up just a
moment here Tina the thought process is
you consume nitric oxide it causes
vasodilation that's supposed to improve
your circulation it's supposed to
improve your oxygenation and all as well
and again that's true in the acute phase
an acute can be a couple of weeks not
necessarily hours or even days but be a
couple of weeks where you see this nice
benefit from consuming nitric oxide but
then the benefits kind of disappear they
kind of fall off the cliff and when you
start consuming or you have excessive
nitric oxide on a consistent level it
actually becomes a neurotoxin it
actually increases cardiovascular health
diseases it increases your chances of
ALS and dementia and Alzheimer's and
anything neurod degenerative and again
again that's nitric oxide in excess
nitric oxide is a normal byproduct that
our body produces right but again when
you're consuming it in excess like these
supplements or like I was doing these
pre-workouts or these drugs like Viagra
that promote nitric oxide production
it's actually causing degeneration to
your body and a couple decades ago there
was the nitric oxide Theory of Aging
just like there's a free radical Theory
of Aging nitric oxide is a free radical
it's literally an electron stealer and
so people that have been following me or
listening to my podcast and we talk
about raising your voltage and that just
means getting as many electrons accruing
as many electrons as possible that could
be from food it could be from
supplements it could be from grounding
could be from red light therapy could be
from anything truly that benefits the
mitochondria well again n or nitric
oxide is a free radical it's an electron
stealer so even from that fundamental
level it's like well it's probably not
good for you and so to oh go ahead I was
going to ask you a question yeah to
bring this full circle so it makes a
little more sense and again remember
methylene blue is a Nitro oxide
inhibitor which is why we're talking
about this so nitric oxide does cause
vasodilation but it also inhibits oxygen
from entering your electron transport
chain which you need that oxygen to
produce ATP ATP is your token of energy
and so again if we have excessive nitric
oxide that means more and more of your
mitochondria are dysfunctional and then
you go down that that whole rabbit hole
we talked about in my previous interview
with you where you want more energy per
cell because more energy per cell equals
health and vitality the less energy you
have per cell or the less ATP you have
per cell the more disease you have per
cell so again if nitric oxide is
continuously disallowing oxygen from
coming into that energy producing
Factory then then if it's in excess
you're decreasing your body's Vitality
your energy production and so anything
that inhibits nitric oxide is going to
thus allow oxygen into that electron
transport chain produce ATP and your
mitochondria are happy your body's happy
so on and so forth but in a nutshell
that's the argument against nitric oxide
and that's the main one of the main
reasons why methylene blue does what it
does so well
okay so question and or just thoughts in
the ozone community so I used to be into
ozone and I still love ozone but putting
ozone into joints and you know using
ozone therapeutically the idea is if you
introduce these free radicals into the
body then the
body's endogenous or internal
antioxidant system will kick up and kick
in right so you're like actually
inducing your own antioxidant process
and that even goes into to the whole
taking exogenous antioxidants isn't
necessarily that therapeutic as we
thought it was like the data around that
lately is like well it's not really
doing anything what we want is our
internal
endogenous antioxidant production
happening so if we're taking well two
questions one is not to steer away from
methylene blue but if what if you're
just naturally really low in nitric
oxide so you're taking a little bit to
kind of hit Baseline maybe not and of
course no one knows what's excessive and
what's Baseline and then number two
would there be do you think potentially
any upside to bringing oxidants into the
system to induce that endogenous
antioxidant
system what do you think great questions
the first
one would what was the first one again
well maybe people are just really low in
Nitric o gotcha and so they're taking
something to like hit Baseline yeah
you're right I know of certain protocols
that are predicated on increasing your
nitric oxide level and I haven't had the
time or ironically the energy to go down
that rabit hole and see what the thought
process is about testing your nitric
oxide level and trying to increase it
because again based on what I've read
relative to methylene
blue you actually do want your nitric
oxide levels low to your second
question yeah the whole premise of
methyl blue is inhibiting nitric oxide
production and again this is kind of an
argument or not even an argument but a
conversation I have with people that are
more well versed in this area I don't
necessarily want people that are
dogmatic about nitric oxide but I guess
you can learn their point of view
regardless but I'm honestly curious like
what what's the answer here because
nitric oxide is just a gas it's a
signaling molecule and free radicals are
a normal consequence of energy
production and so just as a byproduct of
produce an ATP you're going to have free
radicals which to your point those are
signaling to produce your own endogenous
antioxidants so to your question like
does something like ozone or something
else that um antioxidant production is
that the question well yeah just what
just your thoughts and it doesn't have
to be you know just yeah in general
because I know you're well versed in
this topic to some degree just the idea
that we're inducing oxidant production
purposely so that we can bring up our
own endogenous antioxid oxidant
production it's a mouthful no yeah I got
you I mean that's just same thing as
just building up lactic acid which is um
acidic and you don't want acid in your
body at high levels on a consistent
basis but you work out you build up that
lactic acid and then you come back a
couple days later and your muscles are
stronger so it's kind of like yeah it's
kind of exactly the hormetic stress
response so I think there is a time and
place for it for sure and I think again
the Crux of the conversation with this
nitric oxide is chronically high levels
I don't think you want zero nitric oxide
because again we need it to live it's a
signaling molecule but you don't want it
to
be high chronically right yeah well
that's my concern with chronic use of
Cialis or Viagra for folks like I had
several patients who were grandfathered
into my practice when I took over from
my mentor and several older men help
really healthy guys but they definitely
loved their Calis and Viagra
prescriptions and I'm like I don't know
about that all the time not sure that's
a great idea so anyway let's I'm I
didn't mean to steer us so far off path
so methylene blue inhibits Nitric oxygen
nitric oxide production so we know the
benefits there and then what else and
mitoch it helps with mitochondrial
function so that would mean it would
help get more oxygen into the
mitochondria I'm guessing 100%
inhibiting okay and that's literally
kind of like the same or two ways of
saying the same thing like by inhibiting
nitric oxide you're improving
mitochondrial function and energy
production yes okay that makes sense and
then how does this synergize with red
light or is that just because they're
both similarly working on mitochondria
exactly they're working similarly on
mitochondria just different mechanisms
they're both actually inhibiting or not
necessarily inhibiting but they're
dissociating that nitric oxide and this
gets a little geeky sceny but it'll for
oxygen to get into the mitochondria to
produce energy there's something called
the cytochrom C oxid a which is the
chromophor meaning it accepts light thus
once once red or near infrared light
hits that chromophor cytochrom oxidase
that nitric oxide is dissociated meaning
oxygen can now get in and so that's what
red light therapy is doing methylene
blue is just doing that from a substance
standpoint where it's literally
inhibiting nitric oxide production
they're both extremely
powerful
um I mean in that sense
reducing inflammation improving
circulation and kind of just to finish
the thought on nitric oxide the reason
why the fact that it's a vasodilator
which is true does not mean it leads to
increased oxygenation is because of this
concept of it capping the cytochrom oxid
and not allowing oxygen in so it
literally vasodilates and it may improve
circulation but it does not improve
oxygenation to tissues the best
vasodilator for our body is carbon
dioxide so carbon dioxide vasodilates
and it oxygenates via the bore effect
and so that's kind of the interesting
story here is that they're both vasod
dilators but only one meaning nitric
oxide or carbon dioxide only one of
those to actually oxygenates the
tissue okay interesting so carbon
dioxide is not as bad as we thought it
was isn't it funny everything has such a
specific role that we think we
understand and then we find out it does
all these other things and it's like I
don't know I want to kick my early 90s
Science Education out the door but then
there's so much there that was valuable
and still you know applicable it just
makes you it just makes you think we
can't there's no end note to this you
know we have to constantly be educating
ourselves and I share this because I was
talking to my husband the other night
saying I was shocked at how few of my
colleagues keep up with research you
know and like I feel like that's the job
of a doctor like that's part of our job
is to stay up and we can't stay up on
everything but we certainly should stay
up on the things that are important and
at least common right my mentor always
taught me like stay a breast of what's
common so really understanding the most
commonly prescribed Pharmaceuticals
really just staying a breast on what's
Happening and I think that we don't do
that but there's so much of this
information coming out like NAD like
that's such an interesting topic too and
how necessary that step is and everybody
went rushing towards NAD production but
also on that note I found studies
showing that excess NAD plus production
might be not so good so there's anyway
these are it's like new info on Old
theories that we need to keep up with
and yet we still don't
know ever evolving ever evolving yes
ever evolving is the word is there any
impact on NAD production with red light
and methylene blue do you know
or that pathway that's a good question I
I don't know specifically about that
pathway it certainly wouldn't hurt it
because again if you're improving the
the functioning in the the health so to
speak of the mitochondria you're kind of
helping boost its ability to function
altogether so um mitoch or sorry not
mitochondria methylene blue does seem to
help ramp up uh the NAD to nadh ratio so
there is some uh potential benefit there
the amount of research in methylene
Bloon this isn't to say there isn't a a
healthy amount but there just isn't as
much compared to
photobiomodulation and as you can see
we've actually added some nmn into our
product it's not to the amounts that you
would take let's say if you're taking a
NAD supplement on a daily basis it's
kind of a
um low dose it's just another way to
boost mitochondrial health and if you
see at the bottom of the ingredients on
on bio there's fulvic acid and that's
the ingredient that helps drive all of
the ingredients deeper into the cell
theoretically and that's kind of one of
the main proponents or one of the main
benefits of fulvic acid is that it
drives anything you're consuming
ingredients or Foods or what have you
just deeper into your body so you absorb
more and so it doesn't take as much um
kind of speaking towards the nmn it's
not like there's a high dose of nmn in
the bio product but with a fulvic acid
it probably gets a little deeper yeah
and then you've got liquid gold and
liquid silver Nano liquid gold and
liquid silver can you talk about that
yeah so either of those have their own
uh photo dnamic properties uh with and
they're also called let's say colloidal
gold or colloidal silver same thing Nano
okay Nano gold nano silver so there's
some brain benefits there's some
cognitive benefits anti-inflammatory
benefits with the gold and again has its
own set of photodynamic properties
same thing with silver except that has
some more let's say antimicrobial
properties some wound healing properties
and then its own set of photodynamic
properties so since we're kind of
building it around this mitochondrial
health concept backs slash redl therapy
synergist we just wanted to add some
ingredients that would enhance again the
target towards mitochondrial health and
for those that want to use methylene
blue with red light therapy adding that
gold and silver would also enhance some
of those photo dnamic properties I love
that it's so cool we're like little
photosynthesizing
beings truly I tried to tell people that
when I was back in medical school I was
running around in 2008 telling people
that our mitochondria
photosynthesized and they all laughed at
me W they all called me names I didn't
have the science I just knew it I was
like based on what I understand so
mitochondria are bacteria guys for
everyone listening people don't realize
that mitochondria are symbol iotic
bacteria that live in our bodies that we
would die without in milliseconds so
that's crazy and when I learned that I
wrote a whole paper on it I was like way
ahead of the curve Mike I wrote a paper
about mitochondria when I was in
undergrad like in the early 90s I was
writing about because I was blown away
that mitochondria were bacterium I
learned it in one of my basic science
classes and then I wrote another so that
was like check you know that was an
early adapter on that one there were a
couple other things I did that sort of
like prefused My Life coming but anyway
I'm looking right now so for I mentioned
the cert one pathway for folks who don't
know it activates mitochondrial signals
and Pathways regulating the expression
levels of genes crucial for the
proliferation and ATP production and
then I looked up methylene blue and it
does activate the CER one pathway so
that's pretty rad because the that whole
pathway I just did a podcast about fatty
liver and that whole pathway is really
critical to Fat deposition in the liver
or L you know keeping it safe actually
so when that pathway goes sideways we
start packing on fat and we specifically
start packing on fat in the liver which
is not good for anyone who hasn't
listened to that episode go back and
listen to it so this means that
potentially and I'm looking at this
study right here that methylene blue may
actually help with fatty liver and
through that pathway which is really
cool so well we're not talking about
promoting a a treating anything but it's
just nice to know how we can support
certain Pathways well also one of the
biggest things about methylene blue and
I don't know if you know this yet Dr
Tina methylene blue was the first
pharmaceutical
drug
ever I think I did know that as an
antimalarial and this is back in the
late
1800s so it's a major major anti viral
profound results I mean there's some
case studies of people getting cured in
48 hours with like a doser two of
methylene blue just like a dose you or I
would take nothing huge and so then it's
powerful when you combine red light
therapy and methylene blue for like the
West Nile V virus Ebola zika herpes um
hepatitis A so as far as like an immune
boosting or if you want to call it an
antiviral it's extremely extremely
powerful by itself but even more so when
you combine it with red light therapy
well and it's antibacterial too you know
at my age I'm heading on to 50 and
there's definitely some cognition issues
happening it's I don't know it's pre per
menopause who knows what it is but it's
definitely a thing that and I only
notice it because I'm a really high
functioning academic like I am a high
functioning highb brain person and I've
always had a lot of pride in that and so
I don't think most people notice their
cognition wavering because they're most
people aren't actually trying to perform
at a really high level cognitively you
know I'm not dissing anyone it's just
unless you are actively in that world
you don't notice when your brain isn't
working like it used to so I've noticed
that and I know that methylene blue
really helps me with that um it's
something I cycle I don't I cycle
everything I don't say on anything for a
extended period of time I always cycle
stuff and however many months I cycle is
depends on what I'm doing usually it's
like 90 days on you know a month off
whatever because I want receptors and
everything to be clean but the other
thing I've noticed in this age group is
our as our estrogen is dropping a lot of
women will end up with vaginal atrophy
it's super common it gets worse with
stress and that vaginal atrophy can be
treated very successfully with some
topical estrogen but that's a pain in
the ass but it's still a necessary
treatment that I think most women are
being they're having withheld they're
not getting that disussed by their
doctor with them and so they end up with
this sort of lowgrade chronic UTI thing
that persists especially if they remain
sexually active which I hope they do so
I love methylene blue because and I've
always had UTI like I once you're once
you have a bad UTI you're kind of prone
to them for life it sucks so I have a
propensity for them and the thing I've
noticed about taking methylene blue
regularly is that absolutely no concern
with that like it staves off UTI and
it's shown in the literature to do so as
well because it's so antimicrobial so
it's plus adding in that I mean
colloidal silver is another one that I
use for that so that's an awesome side
effect ladies if you're listening I know
that a lot of the listeners to my show
are my age they're middle women are
older go get your doctor to hand you
some topical estrogen for your vagina
and for your vaginal tissue so it
doesn't atrophy and Shrink away that's
terrible well because it leads to
Chronic UTI for a lot of women they
don't realize what's happening and those
can go systemic and kill you people
don't realize this a lot of old people
die of UTI and the older you get for
some reason the less symptomatic you
become so a lot of folks in my practice
I took care of a lot of geriatric folks
and they had no idea they even had a UTI
men and women so all that to say
methylene blue is a wonderful cognitive
protector and it'll give you this
awesome side effect of helping you not
get potentially viruses and bacteria
systemically but also urinary tract
health so that's a good one we like that
that's my side rant unrelated that's
that's a good rant though that's a good
rant oh speaking of genitals red light
down there do you want to talk about
that I have long known that red light to
the testicles improves testosterone
production I would love to if you have
any more information on that I would
love to talk about that because I just
think it's a great treatment to just
shine on your NE nether regions did we
talk about this last time or not do you
remember I don't know I don't remember
if we did so this is like my boilerplate
answer so I don't have any updated
information Dr Tina um okay there's like
nothing in the research there's no
PubMed articles there's nothing um to
your point the more people I've talked
to either personally or or I've seen on
Instagram they tout the testosterone
boosting benefits of red light therapy
so as someone who is offering it as a
product it's not like I
am I'm I'm basically telling them what
I'm telling you which is there's no
research behind it but there's a lot of
strong anecdotal evidence and I've even
had some people show me the results when
they use their not 23 and me but what is
a what is a panel that a popular panel
people take that shows test testosterone
oh I don't know the Dutch test I don't
know it doesn't matter I guess but
anyway they showed me their levels and
the inflection point was insane it's
like this is literally when I started
red light therapy and my testosterone
was
like are they using it all over their
body or are they using it on their
testicles both oh wow so they are
they're doing like full body treatments
but they're also intentionally treating
their testicles for testosterone
boosting properties and like without a
doubt they're seeing the results wow
that's amazing oh here's so funny I pull
this up I type in red light on testicles
testosterone into Google and it says one
Medical Professional who spoke to verify
said red light could do more harm to
testosterone levels than good the
propaganda it's so funny well the reason
I found you and your company BioLite
which I love is because I was looking
for a red light company and I ran into a
friend who lives locally she's a
follower and she was pregnant and I know
that she'd been trying to get pregnant
for a long time and she'd had some
health issues and she was like it's the
red light I've been using this panel she
gave her other competitor brand away to
her parents and she started using your
bu I think it was the desktop version
yeah yeah and she got pregnant and she
swore by it and so I have been looking
into red light and hormones and you know
you're right there's not a ton of
literature on it but
it's anecdotally people are reporting
great things well not to keep harping on
nitric oxide but um
excess amounts in your body actually
leads to decreased testosterone so how
ironic is that that it was a preworkout
for the bodybuilders back in the day
probably still today right like they're
promoting that it increases the pump it
increases increases muscle gain
testosterone and increases your
impotence so does
beer I just want to throw that in
because beer is an estrogen tincture and
it's know it's like thought of as this
like manly drink and it's really just a
hoppy estrogen D like there are few
herbs that directly promote a hormone
and hops directly promotes estrogen from
what I my training from what I
understand so yeah keep your uh nitric
oxide high and your your beer intake
high oh and marijuana does the same
thing marijuana tanks out your
testosterone so yeah we think about all
of these variables and so does obviously
metabolic poor metabolic health I mean
that's like the number one it's so weird
we live in this country full like very
very terrible metabolic health and then
people are pumping testosterone into
them and not doing any of the other
things to support their metabolic health
and then it starts to aromatase into
estrogen and they wonder why these
studies come out showing you know
adverse effects it's like putting a
product into a dumpster fire yep doesn't
go well the pathways aren't working you
know so we got to do all the things
people and then we can use these bioh
hacks or whatever you want these tools
these you know these advantageous tools
to get us closer to our goals I do think
though as far as like an
allterrain product or treatment I
honestly like methylene blue is
allterrain for Real on for I mean this
is like something I travel with little
trokies methylene blue trokies because
they just get you out of so many pinches
like it really is such a like you said
to the antiviral effect Etc and then
this I travel with my little red light
like the two of those are allterrain
vehicles for a myriad of concerns and
potential benefits so I'm a big
fan what else what have we not
mentioned well just to kind of piggyback
on your thought process there like the
only two tools that we have at least
that we know of right now that can
dissociate that nitric oxide and thus
allow oxygen into the mitochondria and
allow that efficient energy production
the only two things that can do that are
methylene blue and red light therapy
really mhm wow so again at least use one
or the other but combining them together
you get that nice synergistic benefit um
but again as far as restoring metabolic
health or as far as restoring
mitochondrial function like those are
the two biggest ones I can think of that
is such a good point you make folks
don't realize that they you know I don't
talk enough about it on my platform but
really at the Crux of everything as your
mitochondrial health so we can talk
about you know eating more protein and
strength training and doing all these
things which will help your mitochondria
for sure and adding muscle to your body
will add mitochondria to your frame but
if you have very sick mitochondria and
that can be from a variety of reasons
you could be overly poisoned which is
not uncommon in today's society you know
glyphosate all the things you could um
have had poisoning through
Pharmaceuticals that you've taken in the
past you know we know the things like
cypro which was handed out like candy in
the 90s big mitochondria poisoner that's
what being flocked is those are the
fluoroquinolone drugs so there's all
kinds of ways that people end up with
really poorly functioning mitochondria I
think you could probably be born into it
I was not in great mitochondrial shape
when I gave birth and my daughter has a
lot of symptoms of low mitochondrial
function so we want to build
mitochondria and add it to our frame but
via muscle but we also want to help what
we have work better and when you do that
metabolic Health improves and without
that metabolic Health really just
Putters along so the folks who are
emailing me or dming me saying I'm doing
I'm trying everything it's just not
working maybe start with mitochondrial
Health at its core and that includes
going out and seeing you know getting
red light from The Horizon when you can
and I can't always in Oregon so that's
that funny this morning I was sitting
with this adjacent to my eyes you know
at eye level while I kind of went about
my morning because I'm like I need my
red light because it's all cloudy
outside can't I still do go out there in
the morning even with the clouds but
that's a big one you know get that's why
we talk about getting Horizon light and
that evening or afternoon early evening
uh Sun as it goes down because we want
that red light that's the point of it
it's a circadian rhythm
Setter if you will well to your point
all about the poisoning that's actually
one of the top things methling blue is
known for is it's being an antidote for
chemical let's see chemical poisonings
and overdose so whether so you're
talking about all these different drugs
or all these different like environment
pollutants and poisons that we
unfortunately accumulate during our
lifetime methylene blue seems to
be a
potent you know antidote antidote for
all of that yeah I just pulled this up
National Institutes of Health methylene
blue can act as an antidote to pesticide
poisoning That's crazy so you're talking
about good news for me I live out in
wine country where I literally get
sprayed I literally get sprayed this
field or the field behind me gets
sprayed I don't between the two I'm
probably getting hit like four to six
times a year with Wow broadleaf killer
or glyphosate it makes me crazy if I
think I just this morning actually took
a urine test to test my glyphosate
levels because I'm so concerned so this
is good to know anyway go ahead I was I
didn't mean that's a great like anecdote
within this little diet tribe we're
having it's
like with everything that's being
sprayed or again stuff you're breathing
in or consuming in your foods that you
don't even know that you're consuming
it's like to have these types of
strategies whether it's methylene blue
or sweating it out through the infrared
sauna what have you just to have these
Myriad of strategies to detoxify or
mitigate the negative side effects it's
like you only have one body you only
have one lifetime you got to make the
best of it yeah yeah and the side
effects of chronic glyphosate poisoning
are so bad I did a video the other day
on my my Instagram I took it down cuz
people were so dumb that they couldn't
actually process what I was trying to
show them they couldn't get to the end
of this I stitched a video together the
first video was a lady using tampons to
soak up the grease in her while she was
cooking ground beef I would ever do I
would never do such a thing but people
freaked I I I don't know what to do Mike
people literally freak out on me about
everything I post I thought it was funny
and of course anyone who knows me would
know that would I would not do such a
thing commercial like regular tampons
anyway at the end of it I said don't you
know be careful what you put up your
HooHa because these things are soaked
and essentially I mean they're they're
made out of cotton that's drenched in
glyphosate and of course people freaked
out about that what do we use what do we
do it's like I don't know think go to
Google start looking at options I have a
beef with dealing with Instagram and all
of that but the point being is we're
getting glyphosate everywhere it's
everywhere I know people who have lived
an organic life their entire higher Life
Organic Food organic everything because
they came from parents who were into
that and understood from so from an
early age or maybe forever and they
still have they go to these are
colleagues and they go to test their
glyphosate levels and their urine and
they Skyhigh so I mean it's it's
unavoidable it's just we're just bathing
in toxic soup every day and I don't say
that to scare anyone when you can
finally accept that as a reality you can
start to learn tools to mitigate it
because it's just a way of life we just
live in a on a planet now that is highly
polluted and we can only do the best we
can do so again methylene blue all train
all train
vehicle gives us what we need I like it
does red light help the body detoxify
does it help cells let go of garbage do
you
know I'm just guessing that is not one
of the first things that comes to my
mind when I think of red light therapy
okay I'm not saying it can't or it
doesn't maybe it helps perpetuate your
other strategies like infrared sauna and
otherwise like it does promote
circulation so whether it's your blood
circulation or your lymphatic
circulation it's going to help promote
oxygen and nutrients in and the garbage
out so in that sense but as far as like
the deep down deep detox that you get
with an infrared SAA it's a little
different I wouldn't I wouldn't shout
from the mountain top the red light
therapy is this amazing detoxer but
again it does help move stuff along and
help normalize metabolic Health yeah
well it helps with cellular metabolism
and mitochondrial function so that would
help clean up cells it's a major immune
booster I mean so that's not necessarily
detox kind of you know just a different
vertical in a way but when I think
detox correct me if I'm wrong but I just
think like sauna yeah yeah yeah yeah
yeah I love my sauna my sauna Is My Jam
I love cooking the crap out of myself
when I am in my sauna I say it all the
time you know I used to tell patients
this I used to sell those little zipup
saas that your heads sticks out of I'll
link my favorite one in the show notes
to this but man I sold those like hot
cakes in my practice cuz I like wi and
out go cook the crap out of yourself Y
and then your lights turn
on and so and methylene blue and sauna
is a an awesome combo too there's a lot
of upside to that combination and just
kind of stacking these things
synergistically is really the name of
the game so yeah I think that getting
your sweat on is key and then you got to
go shower off you guys I always am lazy
and I walk around with my let my sweat
dry on me and all my toxins are being
reabsorbed okay let me ask you this Dr
Tina yeah go ahead do you sauna in the
summer I find it very difficult to do
that I do too I know I slacked all
summer to be totally honest with you I
slack me too like I enjoy the coolness
in the morning I don't want to get
sweaty before the day gets hot you know
what I mean it's tough for me to talk
myself in into into doing the sauna yeah
and I hear this from followers who live
in Florida or live in Arizona where
they're like I don't want a sauna I live
in you know like for boing heat all the
time so yeah I know I think that just
getting your sweat on is key and
honestly getting heat shock protein
induction and getting sweaty which you
could do with just going outside in some
places or working out period but working
out in a warm environment working out
outside where it's warm there's all
kinds of ways that I think could be
somewhat comparable but infrared sauna
does something different and that
infrared definitely is not you're not
going to get that as well you would from
I guess early day sun or late day sun
you'd get some depends on the time of
day you go out but I promote an infrared
sauna to folks for other health reasons
yeah it's hard it's hard I like that
sauna in the fall and winter for sure
and spring to some degree but when it's
warm outside I'm on it it's tough well
you listen to me complain about Oregon
all the time so you
know it's beautiful but it's rainy so
that's what we got got here I just love
this I always love talking to you it's
always so informative and I learn so
many new things so thank you and I
really appreciate you coming on we're
gonna put my link in the show notes that
link is an affiliate link which will
give these folks a discount and it's on
the whole store right so the Biol blue
and the red light options that are in
there yep oh I know what I had one last
question before I call
it so you guys have a mouth device for
denti right like a red light mouth
device I feel like methylene blue is
really good for gum health for gum and
teeth health I know it stains things but
I feel like just getting that
antibacterial or
antimicrobial is such a good thing to be
if you guys can tolerate it you know
swishing it around and actually use
somewhat to get it in there and then
combo with that I I don't have that
device but I could imagine I was
thinking like how can you pair these
things I was thinking that device
secondarily on top of it would be super
cool
that's one of the first things that came
to my mind coincidentally is like you
have to put in your mouth um I mean
there's trokies I don't know if you've
used trois before where you have like
these little what would you call them
like almost not gumdrops but small
little things you pack between your gum
and your cheek so that it absorbs into
your bloodstream bypasses your your
stomach and all that your liver but man
those stain the heck out of your teeth
and tongue um like those stain a deep
deep blue
for 6 8 10 hours where like when you use
um a liquid product like Biol I find
that it stains my tongue and teeth very
little relative to those Troys and maybe
for 30 to 60 minutes maybe 90 minutes
but I don't know if it's the same for
you Tina but it dissipates relatively
quickly it does that is actually a huge
upside I'm glad you mentioned that
because that's the one thing that keeps
me from taking methylene blue
consistently is I was using trokies and
then I would go about my entire day with
a blue mouth such a deep stain it's
crazy mhm and it stains your teeth and
my teeth don't need any more than that
my coffee and wine my life of coffee and
red wine love really got me on that
Dimension so no this is a great point
you make I love that I love that about
it um because it is such a vital thing
to do in the morning do you feel like
taking it too late in the day could
cause a little over
stimulation so that's what I've been
doing as long as I've been taking it and
I don't find stimulation I even like use
my cocoon right before I go to bed and I
fall asleep ra rather quickly my HRV
scores are high in the morning whereas
I've heard other people when they've
been taking methylene blue in the
evening they almost get like a restless
leg syndrome type of energy where it's
tough for them to fall asleep so just
like when we're talking about red light
therapy everyone responds a little
differently it's up for you to kind of
try it out and kind of tease out what
works best for your body then that
brings up a good point that methylene
blue has a half life of about 12 hours
so you do want to take it twice a day if
possible but again if you're a person
where it's not allowing you to fall
asleep as as normally as you would like
then maybe you push that one closer to
the mid or early afternoon just so you
can fall asleep uh more easily okay
really good information I'm glad we
brought that up because just as far as
like a safety thing because for
methylene blue I think we should touch
on is it's extremely extremely safe I've
heard of no negative consequences or
side
effects dosages even up to 400
milligrams a day is still considered in
the safe Zone but for people like you
and me we're taking like 20 to 30
milligrams a day which would be about 10
or 15 milligrams two times a day so I
don't know what you're doing and it's
even these doses where we're in the
research we're seeing these major
anti-depressive benefits and we're
seeing these effects with uh combating
Dementia or these neurod degenerative
diseases it's these low
8 to 16 milligrams per day and so the
doses I'm taking are already at that or
slightly higher all of that to say is
let's say you have come down with some
sort of sickness I'm not going to name a
particular one you might want to bump up
the
dosage from I'm just going to use myself
in as an example let's put it that way
so personally I do about 20 to 30
milligrams per day in water I dilute it
in about 3 to four ounces of water just
chug it down if I were to get sick I
would bump that up close to 80 to 100
milligrams per day for a string of days
and even that is still considered
relatively low compared to what dosages
can be all of that to say is if you take
it
within this is not medical advice but if
you're taking it in these common dosages
I'm not making these up these are what
are are commonly perpetuated in the
methylene blue world it's extremely safe
it's a it's an organic synthetic diey
it's used I kind of hate to say this but
it's used in aquarium ecosystems it's
used in to stabilize life right so
that's it's this interesting odd
metabolite so to speak that has all
these amazing benefits and just like red
light therapy I would see it as a low
risk high high reward as far as
metabolic Health yes absolutely I agree
with you I remember learning about it in
chemistry class because we used it to
stain cells exactly exactly still do
today yep yep that's not the kind you
want to be taken you don't want to be
taking chemistry class methylene blue
you want to take a higher quality one
yeah you got to be taking pharmaceutical
grade there's like three different um
qualities I forget what they are off the
top of my head but it's like yeah like
the stuff you use to dye your clothes
like like in the textile industry then
you have the stuff like you're using I
think in the aquarium life or maybe even
sustaining slides and then the stuff for
for consumption if you so choose which
is like that Pharmaceutical grade so you
have to be using that pharmaceutical
grade absolutely and if you get this on
your clothes it will stain them and if
you get it on your skin it will stain
them so be careful side note I've done
methine blue is actually using a lot of
skincare products nowadays and so this
is actually it's funny you bring this up
I don't mean to keep prolonging this
conversation but no it's interesting
there's actually something called I
think a methylene blue like a skin Redux
test where if you take a just like a
pipe head of methyl blue you put a drop
on your skin if that drop is gone in
quicker than 6 hours it means that your
cells were oxygen
deprived interesting that reminds me of
the iodine test that we used to do we
used to paint iodine on patients skin
and then see how fast that that absorbed
or if that stain remained so it could
tell iodine deficiency as well that's
interesting yep skin is cool skin tells
you a lot I love that no I'm glad I'm
glad you added that in okay okay so
where can folks find you so that they
can learn more about either red light or
methylene blue yeah so just check out
BioLite on Instagram it's biol. shop you
can check out me personally I'm Dr Mike
Bowski on Instagram or you can check me
out on LinkedIn Dr Mike Bowski the
website is also bite. shop so you can
check out all the different devices
Tina's been talking about those handheld
devices the glow the shine or the bigger
models if you want more so that full
body red light therapy treatment which
is what I promote for the systemic
benefit of red light therapy and the bio
is on there as well and yeah like Tina
said check out her link so you guys can
get that exclusive discount that she's
offering through for all bolite products
yes awesome I love it okay well this has
been so helpful I learned a lot as
always and I'll let you know I'm going
to bump up my dose I was only doing like
10 milligrams a day so I'm going to bump
it up and I will let I will give you
guys some feedback and you as well Mike
to tell you keep posted apprciate thanks
for having me
on
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