The Biggest Names ever Lost to History
Summary
TLDRDieses Video enthüllt zwei faszinierende Fakten: Erstens, dass selbst berühmte Denkmäler im Laufe der Zeit vergessen werden können. Zweitens, dass ein populäres Bergland in Wales, die Brecon Beacons, seit über 400 Jahren unter einem Namen bezeichnet wird, der völlig erfunden ist und ursprünglich für etwas anderes gedacht war. Die Sendung beleuchtet Missinformation und zeigt, wie ein einziges Ereignis den Verlauf der Geschichte verändern und Jahrhunderte später zu einer kontroversen Diskussion beitragen kann. Es handelt sich um Geschichten, die die Zeit vergessen hat.
Takeaways
- 🗿 Die Skriptanweisung erzählt, dass selbst berühmte Denkmäler im Laufe der Zeit vergessen werden können.
- 🏞️ Über 400 Jahre lang wurde ein beliebter Berg im Land mit einem Namen bezeichnet, der völlig erfunden ist und ursprünglich für etwas anderes gedacht war.
- 📚 Die Geschichte zeigt, wie eine einzige Information die Geschichte verändern und Jahrhunderte nach ihrem fiktiven Beginn zu Diskussionen beitragen kann.
- 🏞️ In Westwales, in einer Region, in der die Mehrheit der Bevölkerung Walisisch spricht, steht ein Berg namens 'Knight', der in Altenglisch geschrieben wird.
- 📝 Der Name 'Cnicht' ist eine der wenigen englischen, geschweige denn Altenglischen Ortsnamen in dieser Region und seine Bedeutung bleibt unklar.
- 🧐 Der Name 'Blorenge' könnte durch den Einfluss des Wortes 'Orange' entstanden sein, obwohl dessen Bedeutung unklar bleibt.
- 🏞️ Der Ort 'Rhyl' könnte ursprünglich von dem englischen Wort 'Hügel' abgeleitet sein, obwohl es keine prominenten Hügel in der Nähe gibt.
- 🏞️ Der Berg 'Bannau Brycheiniog' hatte früher verschiedene Namen, darunter 'Cadair Arthur', was 'König Arturs Stuhl' bedeutet.
- 🏞️ Einige Namen von Bergen in Wales, wie 'Pen-y-Fan', haben viele Aufzeichnungen ihrer Namen, während andere nur spärliche Aufzeichnungen haben.
- 🤔 Es gibt eine Geschichte, die besagt, König Arthur sei in den Bergen von Gwynedd gefallen und in 'Carnedd Arthur' begraben worden, aber die genaue Lage ist unbekannt.
- 🏞️ Die 'Carneddau' Berge in Wales könnten nach verschiedenen Personen benannt sein, aber die genaue Identität der Person ist umstritten.
Q & A
Was lernen wir in dem Video?
-Wir lernen, dass jedes Denkmal, unabhängig von seiner Größe, Berühmtheit oder Popularität, vergessen werden kann, und dass der Name eines der beliebtesten Berge im Land über 400 Jahre lang fälschlicherweise verwendet wird, ohne dass jemand es korrigiert hat.
Was ist der Name des Berges, der im Video erwähnt wird und warum ist seine Bezeichnung seltsam?
-Der Name des Berges ist 'Knight', was seltsam ist, weil er in Altenglisch geschrieben wird, obwohl die Region von Wales, in der er sich befindet, von den Altsachsen nie erobert wurde.
Wie kam es zum Namen 'Cnicht' für den Berg?
-Es ist unklar, wie der Name 'Cnicht' entstanden ist. Es ist einer der wenigen englischen, geschweige denn altenglischen Ortsnamen in der Region und es gibt keine Hinweise darauf, was sein alter Name war.
Was ist die Bedeutung des Namens 'Blorenge'?
-Die Bedeutung des Namens 'Blorenge' ist unklar. Es wird vermutet, dass der Name möglicherweise durch den Einfluss des Wortes 'orange' entstanden ist, obwohl dies als Konzept bemerkenswert erscheint und die tatsächliche Bedeutung unbekannt bleibt.
Warum ist der Name 'Rhyl' seltsam?
-Der Name 'Rhyl' scheint vom englischen Wort 'hill' (Hügel) abzuleiten, was seltsam ist, da es in dieser Küstenregion keine prominenten Hügel gibt.
Was ist der Unterschied zwischen dem Namen 'Bannau Brycheiniog' und 'Brecon Beacons'?
-Der Name 'Bannau Brycheiniog' ist auf Walisisch und bedeutet 'Spitzen', während 'Brecon Beacons' eine Anglizierung ist, die ursprünglich als 'Brecknock Beacons' bezeichnet wurde und später in 'Brecon Beacons' geändert wurde, was als ein reimerische Pun auf 'Beacons' (Leuchten) aufgefasst werden könnte.
Warum wurde der Name 'Cadair Arthur' für die Spitzen Pen y Fan und Corn Du ausgelassen?
-Der Name 'Cadair Arthur', was 'Arthurs Stuhl' bedeutet, fiel aus dem Gebrauch aus, und es gibt keine klare Erklärung dafür, warum 'Pen-y-Fan' an seine Stelle trat. Es könnte sein, dass die englischen Schreiber die höchsten Spitzen als 'the Peaks' oder 'the Beacons' bezeichneten, was dazu führte, dass der höchste Berg als 'Kopf des Gipfels' bekannt wurde.
Was ist die Geschichte hinter dem Namen 'Carnedd Arthur'?
-Laut einer Geschichte, die von Hirten im 19. Jahrhundert erzählt wurde, soll König Arthur in der Nähe von Dinas Emrys gefallen sein und in einem Ort namens 'Carnedd Arthur' beigesetzt worden sein, was 'Arthurs Grabhügel' bedeutet.
Wer könnte die Namen 'Carnedd Llywelyn' und 'Carnedd Dafydd' nach sich gerufen haben?
-Die Namen könnten entweder nach Llywelyn, dem 'letzten Fürsten von Wales', und seinem Bruder Dafydd, die während der Eroberung Wales' durch König Eduard I. fielen, oder nach Llywelyn I., einem früheren Führer von Gwynedd, und seinem Sohn Dafydd vergeben worden sein.
Warum ist der Name 'Yr Wyddfa' für den höchsten Berg in Wales und England signifikant?
-Der Name 'Yr Wyddfa' ist signifikant, da er die höchste Erhebung in Wales und England darstellt und in Englisch als 'Snowdon' bekannt ist, was auf die Schneebedeckung des Berges hindeutet.
Was ist das Hauptthema des Videos?
-Das Hauptthema des Videos ist die Missinformation und wie ein einziges Ereignis den Verlauf der Geschichte verändern und zu einer Debatte im Laufe von Jahrhunderten führen kann, nach seiner fiktiven Entstehung.
Outlines
🏞️ Namensverschwinden in Wales
Dieses Video thematisiert zwei Dinge: Erstens, dass selbst berühmte Denkmäler vergessen werden können, unabhängig von ihrer Größe oder Popularität. Zweitens, dass ein beliebter Berg im Land seit über 400 Jahren unter einem falschen Namen bekannt ist, der ursprünglich für etwas anderes gedacht war. Der Berg, der als 'Knight' bekannt ist, ist in Old English geschrieben, was in der Region ungewöhnlich ist und keine Verbindung zur Eroberung durch die Anglo-Sachsen aufweist. Die Etymologie des Bergnamens 'Cnicht' bleibt unklar, ebenso wie der Name des Hügels 'Blorenge', der möglicherweise durch den Einfluss des Wortes 'orange' entstanden sein könnte. Die Diskussion um die Bedeutung von Namen und wie ein Ereignis die Geschichte verändern kann, zeigt die Macht von Fehlinformationen.
🗻 Namensänderungen und verlorene Bedeutungen
Der zweite Abschnitt konzentriert sich auf weitere Beispiele von Namensänderungen und verloren gegangenen Bedeutungen in Wales. Der Ort 'Rhyl' scheint seinen Namen vom englischen Wort 'hill' zu haben, obwohl es in der Nähe keine prominenten Hügel gibt. Es wird spekuliert, dass es einst eine künstliche Erhebung wie eine Burg gab, die jedoch heute verschwunden ist. Der Abschnitt führt auch den Berg 'Bannau Brycheiniog' ein, dessen Gipfel als 'Brecon Beacons' bezeichnet wurden, obwohl der offizielle Name wieder auf Welsh zurückgekehrt ist. Die Gipfel Pen y Fan und Corn Du hatten mehrere Namen, von denen nur einer, 'Pen-y-Fan', in Gebrauch ist. Die Geschichte von King Arthur wird ebenfalls angesprochen, da es einen Ort namens 'Carnedd Arthur' gibt, der seinerzeit als sein Grab gelten soll, jedoch ohne genaue historische Aufzeichnungen.
🏔️ Die Rätsel der Carneddau
Der dritte Abschnitt behandelt die Carneddau, eine Gruppe von Bergen, die nach einer unbekannten Person oder einem historischen Ereignis benannt sein könnten. Es wird diskutiert, ob sie nach Llywelyn, dem 'letzten Fürsten von Wales', oder einem früheren Führer namens Llywelyn I. benannt sind. Einige der Berge tragen auch den Namen 'Dafydd', was auf Verwirrung stößt, da mehrere historische Persönlichkeiten diesen Namen trugen. Die Carneddau stellen ein Beispiel für die Schwierigkeiten dar, historische Namen und ihre Bedeutungen nachzuvollziehen, da die genaue Identität der nach ihnen benannten Personen unklar bleibt.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Monument
💡Misinformation
💡Etymologie
💡Cnicht
💡Blorenge
💡Rhyl
💡Brecon Beacons
💡Cadair Arthur
💡Carnedd Arthur
💡Carneddau
Highlights
Two key lessons: monuments can be forgotten regardless of their size, and a popular mountain has been misnamed for over 400 years.
The mountain known as Knight in Welsh countryside has an Old English spelling, 'Cnicht', despite no historical Anglo-Saxon conquest in the area.
The origin of the name 'Cnicht' remains a mystery, with no known older Welsh name and first recorded in 1480.
The Blorenge's name evolution from 'Bloreys' to 'Blorench' and finally 'Blorenge' might have been influenced by the word 'orange'.
The meaning behind the name 'Blorenge' remains unknown despite historical conjectures.
Rhyl's name is believed to originate from the English word 'hill', despite no prominent hill in the area.
Historians suggest Rhyl may have been named after an artificial hill, possibly a Motte-and-Bailey castle, which no longer exists.
The Brecon Beacons were originally called Bannau Brycheiniog, with 'beacons' being an alliterative pun rather than historical fact.
Pen y Fan and Corn Du, part of the Brecon Beacons, were once known as Cadair Arthur, or Arthur's Chair, associated with King Arthur.
The name Cadair Arthur for the Brecon Beacons was in use until the start of the 20th century but has since fallen out of fashion.
The Carneddau mountains may be named after burial mounds, with a local story linking one to King Arthur's burial.
The Carneddau's namesake is uncertain, with potential links to historical figures Llywelyn and Dafydd, but no definitive evidence.
Yr Wyddfa, or Snowdon, is the highest mountain in Wales and England, with a name that has remained prominent.
The video explores the phenomenon of how names and history of places can be lost or altered over time.
Misinformation and the persistence of certain names despite their uncertain origins are highlighted as significant themes.
The importance of linguistic and historical research in understanding and preserving the true names and stories of landmarks.
Transcripts
In the video you are about to watch, you will learn two things:
Number one: that no matter the physical size, fame, or popularity of a monument, anything,
absolutely anything, can be forgotten. And number two: That for over 400 years,
everybody has been calling one of the most popular mountains in the country [17] by a name that is
completely made up, one that was originally intentioned for something else. No one has ever been corrected,
and I’ve never seen anyone ever even mention it. This is a story about misinformation, and how a
single event can change the course of history, and contribute greatly to an argument happening
centuries after its fictitious inception.
These are the mountains that time forgot.
In Western Wales, in the heart of the countryside, far away from the English border, and in a region
where most of the population speaks Welsh, there is a mountain, standing high above the rest.
And here, amongst the very Welsh peaks of Arddu, Moelwyn Mawr, and Ysgafell Wen… is a
mountain known as Knight. But what makes it even weirder, is that it’s spelt in Old English [10].
The Welsh have their own word for this: "Marchog", and the Anglo-Saxons that did
use "Cniht" never conquered this region of Wales. We have no idea how it got here.
It’s first recorded around the year 1480 [10], and according to the historians H. Owen and R.
Morgan there was a family named knight in the area [10], but judging by this mountain’s spelling,
it’s likely a much older name than that. A peak this distinctive no doubt had an older
name, one in Welsh, but whatever this was, it’s gone, and its likely been gone for a while.
We don’t know why it’s called Cnicht, it’s one of the very few English, let alone Old English place
names in the region [10], and we can’t even get any clues from whatever it was before.
But whilst this mountain’s etymology can be explained,
even if it’s miles away from where you’d expect to find it,
some aren’t so fortunate.
“The furrowed rents… oppose the abrupt, but smooth termination of the Blorenge” [22].
The Blorenge, or Blorens in Welsh, is an odd name. It’s one of the few English nouns to rhyme with
"orange", and that might not be on accident. According to the historians Owen and Morgan,
this hill used to be spelt like "Bloreys", until becoming "Blorench",
and eventually "Blorenge" today, which they suggest might be due to the quote-unquote “influence of
orange”, which is an amazing concept [7]. Despite this unusual name, unlike Cnicht,
we actually have no idea what it even means [7]. Back in the day,
C. F. Cliffe thought that it came from the Welsh “blawr”, meaning "grey",
and “renge”, which I think was supposed to be "ridge" [18]. However, as we’ve seen,
this is relatively modern spelling [7]. Owen and Morgan brought up, and dismissed,
another translation based on the older ‘Bloreis’. “blawr” – "grey", and “ais” – "ribs".
This seems to fit linguistically, however, they note that this doesn’t really fit geographically.
As I mentioned in that quote, the Blorenge is smooth, not ribbed, and looking at these pictures,
I’m not sure “grey” really comes to mind. So what we’re left with then, is a name that is
both undescriptive and entirely unexplained.
Speaking of the unexplained…
“Rhyl is a township in the parish of Rhuddlan… commanding some smooth
and firm sand of several miles” [20]. Rhyl is the odd one out in this video,
as its coastal location could hardly be called a “mountain”, but that’s exactly why it’s on here.
You see, its name appears to be actually be from the English word “hill” [12]. In the
1290s it was spelt this way, before fusing with the Welsh locals to become “Yr Hill” (meaning
"the hill"), and eventually Rhyl today [12]. One problem though… what hill? Wales is filled
with hills, but there aren’t any prominent ones here. All the way back in 1905 in the 'Rhyl Journal', above an
advertisement for gout pills, an article author dramatically declared that “the meaning of Rhyl is
as far to me as the east is from the west” [19]. Owen and Morgan suggest that there could have
been an artificial hill nearby at one time, like a Motte-and-Bailey castle,
at the mouth of the river [12], but we can’t know for sure. And if such a structure did
exist, it’s completely disappeared today. So what we have in essence is a phantom hill,
a hypothetical structure that has completely disappeared, but one that has left a scar
that’s lasted all the way to today. But while this hill has vanished,
leaving its name, there exists one mountain where the exact opposite has happened.
“[it] reaches its extreme height in the double-headed summit called the Brecon Beacons,
the Van, and by one or two other names” [23].
This quote, written over 180 years ago,
has entirely on accident, encapsulated the problem that I’m going to show you today.
Bannau Brycheiniog, named after an old local kingdom, is a mountain range in the south of
Wales. In English these two peaks were anglicised as the Brecknock Beacons,
and later the Brecon Beacons [23], which was for a time the name of the national park,
but the official name was changed back to Welsh a short while ago.
If you’re wondering, these “beacons” seem to just be an alliterative pun. I’ve seen claims that
there were real warning beacons on these hills, but no. “Bannau” just means “peaks”, some guy
just turned it into “beacons” 250 years ago [8].
Regardless, the largest summit here, Pen y Fan, and its neighbour Corn Du, have,
as the quote says, gone by several names, all of which have
fallen completely out of use. As you can see here, this magazine called them both “the Vann”,
and again the “Brecon Beacons” [23]. Back in the 12th century, though, they were
called something much more interesting: Cadair Arthur, Arthur’s chair [8][4]. As in King Arthur.
His earliest records debatably come from this region, Brycheiniog, although he isn’t actually
a king here, that comes way later, but I have a whole video on that if you’re interested.
Regardless, Cadair Arthur was the popular name for these summits, it appears on maps,
and according to the historian B. Brady, it was current all the way to the start of the 20th century [8][4].
The 12th century writer Gerald of Wales also used this name [4], and he claimed these peaks
were also supposed to have magical properties [5], and that a nearby lake was, to again quote B. Brady,
“[able to] recognise the true heir of the kingship of Wales” [5].
This name fell out of fashion, though, as did its second name, which I’ve never seen
anyone mention before: Mynydd Bannwchdêni, which appears alongside Cadair Arthur at the lastest in 1720.
Unlike Rhyl, where the name has survived, but the hill has gone, here we have a mountain with
about four concurrent names, one of which was briefly applied to the entire national park,
and of which only one has survived as the modern name for the mountain. I couldn’t find a mention
as to why Pen-y-Fan became popular, although if English writers took to naming the two highest
Bannau as "the Peaks", or "the Beacons", then it’s not too much of a stretch for the highest mountain to
have become the “head-of-the-peak”.
Pen-y-Fan is also an interesting case, not
only for having so many names, but for having so many records of them. Several of the other peaks
here only seem to have had their names recorded by the late 17 and early 1800s [11], if they had
older, or alternate names, we don’t know what they were. Pen-y-Fan seems to have gobbled up all the
records, like an aggressive twin taking all of the nutrients from its siblings in womb.
It's funny one of these old names mentions Arthur actually, because there’s a particularly interesting place
supposedly named after him, one that has been completely lost to history, deep in the
mountains of Snowdo-
In the mountains of Gwynedd, amongst the shepherds of the 19th century, a very peculiar tale emerged,
concerning the death of one of the most famous figures of all time: King Arthur [3].
There are plenty of stories regarding Arthur’s death, claiming that he fell in battle, or that he’ll someday return,
but all of these were created much later. If we go back to the first text mentioning this figure:
the Historia Brittonum [1], all we find is that he fought 12 battles, ultimately in vain,
before he just… disappears from the story [1]. Hardly a glamorous end, but these
shepherds seem to tell a different tale. According to the historian Rachel Bromwich,
this story involved Arthur and his soldiers fighting near the old ruins of Dinas Emrys
in Gwynedd. They chased their enemy up the mountains, but fell into a trap,
Arthur was hailed with a volley of arrows on a pass that is still known as “Bwlch y Saethau”,
the “pass of the arrows” today, and he died [3]. According to these mountain men, Arthur was laid
to rest somewhere amongst these rocks, in a place known as Carnedd Arthur, and his
burial was supposed to stop enemy armies from ever marching through the mountain passes again [3].
Carnedd is a Welsh word for cairn, a burial mound, and a mound named after him
supposedly did once exist, but what I find interesting is that right in this region,
four mountains are named after burial mounds [9]. I don’t think it’s too far of a stretch,
especially coming from people who lived amongst these monumental gravestones, that Arthur could
have been buried and associated with one of these mountains, at least according to this story.
Whichever one it was though, if any, we have no idea, the name barely made it into
the historical record in the first place, and they don’t give a proper location.
It seems like the shepherds knew something we didn’t.
Instead, the only Carneddau we do have are Carnedd Llywelyn, Dafydd, Uchaf/Gwenllian,
and Snowd-
The Carneddau are an odd bunch, for one reason: We don’t know for certain who they are named after.
There is a very famous ruler of medieval Wales named Llywelyn, who’s commonly given the nickname of
the “last Prince of Wales” [15], since he was the 2nd-to-last Welsh ruler to ever hold the title [13].
He also had a brother, named Dafydd, whose death marked the final conquest of Wales by the English king Edward I [13].
Sounds great, right? These must be them, and all the way back in 1832, this seems to have been the idea,
as the writer Caradoc of Llancarvan claimed that these mountains were named after these Princes,
as they were used as their temporary retreats during Edward I’s conquest [21].
However, there is another famous Llywelyn, who was also the leader of this part of Wales about 40 years earlier [16].
He's commonly called Llywelyn I, owing to the fact that he was the 2nd ruler of Gwynedd named Llywelyn [16].
He's also called “the great”, so it’s not impossible that this mountain could've been named after him instead,
and the historians Owen and Morgan have made this suggestion [9].
Plus, frustratingly do you want to guess what his son, and fellow Welsh
ruler was called? That’s right:
Dafydd [14].
We have no idea which one of these is correct, and it could even be neither.
The name "Llywelyn" isn’t ancient by any means, it first comes up in the 9th century [2],
while the earliest notable “Dafydd” I could find is the son of a Welsh king, who first appears in records in 1157 [6],
giving plenty of time for either of these mountains to have been named something else.
But just like with so many of these mountains forgotten to time, whatever this was, has been completely lost.
Hasn’t it?
Because… I-I could’ve sworn there was also something else, something important I had to remember,
maybe if my carbon monoxide alarm would stop beeping I could finally focus and figure out what it was…
Oh, that’s right,
there’s one more burial mound here, the highest mountain in both Wales and its neighbour England,
Yr Wyddfa, known in English as Snowdon…
Right?
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