The Current Crisis of Masculinity
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful discussion, Jordan Peterson addresses the crisis of masculinity, suggesting it stems from a lack of understanding of original sin and the existential burden it brings. He argues that societal views portray men as inherently destructive, leading to a self-defeating response of emasculation. Peterson emphasizes the importance of channeling masculine traits positively and criticizes radical ideologies that reduce human motivation to power struggles, advocating instead for the spirit of voluntary play as a healthier social dynamic.
Takeaways
- 🧩 The perceived crisis of masculinity is linked to a lack of a concept of original sin, leading to a sense of existential burden and guilt towards nature and culture.
- 🌿 The speaker suggests that societal views portray men as inherently destructive to nature and oppressive in social structures, causing a negative self-image among men.
- 🔪 The idea of 'castrating' oneself as a response to societal accusations is both a metaphor and a real phenomenon, indicating extreme measures taken by some men to cope with societal pressures.
- 🤔 The speaker reflects on the need to take seriously the potential for damage humans can cause to the world, but argues against self-destructive reactions to this realization.
- 👨👧👦 The role of fathers is discussed as crucial in providing a secure environment ('the walls') for the spirit of play to manifest within families and communities.
- 👿 The anger directed at the speaker for advocating for the positive aspects of masculinity may stem from personal negative experiences with men and a lack of positive male role models.
- 💔 The script touches on the issue of family fragmentation and its impact on forming healthy perceptions of masculinity and male-female relationships.
- 🔮 There is a critique of the 'dark triad' traits (narcissism, machiavellianism, and psychopathy) that some women are attracted to, due to their mimicry of competence and confidence.
- 🤝 The speaker emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between power (the ability to use compulsion) and competence, which are often conflated, especially in the context of relationships.
- 🌐 The debate about free speech on campuses is framed not just as a political issue, but as a deeper philosophical one about the nature of human motivation and the possibility of dialogue.
- 🎈 The speaker proposes 'voluntary play' as the antithesis to the 'will to power', suggesting it as a fundamental purpose of human interaction and a key to optimism.
Q & A
What is the main subject of the new series 'Dragons, Monsters & Men'?
-The new series 'Dragons, Monsters & Men' is focused on the concept of masculinity and how men can be men, addressing the perceived crisis of masculinity.
What does Jordan Peterson suggest as a root cause for the crisis of masculinity?
-Jordan Peterson suggests that the crisis of masculinity is a consequence of the lack of a concept of original sin, leading to a sense of existential burden and guilt, which can be weaponized against men and boys.
How does Peterson describe the societal view of men in relation to nature and society?
-Peterson describes a societal view where men are seen as a malevolent force in antagonism to nature and as the driving force behind oppressive and patriarchal social structures.
What does Peterson believe is the proper response to the potential damage humans can do to the natural and social worlds?
-Peterson believes that while it is important to take the potential for damage seriously, the proper response is not to withdraw from participation but to channel masculinity in a positive, productive, and useful way.
Why does Peterson think there is anger directed at him for speaking to men about masculinity?
-Peterson attributes the anger to a complex issue involving the despoiling of nature, the idea of an oppressive patriarchy, and the personal experiences of individuals, particularly women, who have not had positive relationships with men.
What is the connection Peterson makes between family fragmentation and the attraction to dark triad traits in men?
-Peterson suggests that family fragmentation has led to many women not having positive male role models, making them more likely to be attracted to men with dark triad traits, which can mimic competence and generosity.
How does Peterson differentiate between power and competent ambition?
-Peterson defines power as the willingness and ability to use compulsion to attain one's aims, whereas competent ambition serves competence and is not about the expression of power per se.
What does Peterson consider the fundamental motivation of human beings according to radical ideologies?
-Peterson criticizes radical ideologies for positing power as the fundamental human motivation, which he believes is a pathological doctrine and a confession of their own motivations.
How does Peterson view the debate about free speech on campus?
-Peterson sees the debate about free speech on campus as deeper than just who should be allowed to speak freely; it's about whether the idea of free speech is a mask for justifying oppressive power structures.
What does Peterson propose as the antithesis to the will to power?
-Peterson proposes the spirit of free and voluntary play as the antithesis to the will to power, suggesting that optimal structuring of relationships allows for the manifestation of this spirit.
What role does Peterson suggest fathers should play in child rearing?
-Peterson suggests that fathers should play a role akin to erecting the walls of a walled garden, providing security and structure within which the spirit of play can manifest and children can develop freely.
Outlines
🚷 Crisis of Masculinity and Societal Antagonism
The speaker initiates a discussion on the crisis of masculinity, attributing it to a lack of understanding of 'original sin' and the existential burden that leads to feelings of guilt towards nature and culture. He suggests that societal structures are viewed as oppressive, causing young men to feel like they are inherently destructive forces. This perception has led to a form of self-castration among conscientious men as a misguided response to societal accusations. The speaker emphasizes the importance of addressing our potential to harm the natural and social worlds but warns against overreacting to this potential by withdrawing from participation in society.
🤔 The Misinterpretation of Power and Its Societal Impact
This paragraph delves into the confusion between competence and the expression of power, particularly among women who have not had positive relationships with men. The speaker discusses how the mimicry of competence by those with dark triad traits can be misleading. He argues against the idea that power is the fundamental human motivation, highlighting its instability and ineffectiveness in forming genuine relationships. The speaker criticizes radical ideologies that view power as the sole motivation, suggesting that such beliefs hinder dialogue and promote conflict rather than cooperation.
🐵 Challenging Power Structures with the Spirit of Play
The speaker contrasts the unstable social structures based on power with the stability found in reciprocal interactions, using the social dynamics of chimpanzees as an example. He proposes the spirit of voluntary play as the antithesis to the will to power, suggesting that play is essential for the development of children and the health of relationships. The speaker posits that the role of fathers, akin to constructing walls around a garden, is to provide security within which play can flourish, representing a balance of freedom and structure that fosters positive development.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Masculinity
💡Crisis of Masculinity
💡Original Sin
💡Antagonism
💡Patriarchy
💡Atrocity
💡Conscientious
💡Dark Triad
💡Power
💡Free Speech
💡Play
Highlights
Discussion on the crisis of masculinity and its origins, relating it to the lack of a concept of original sin.
The existential burden and guilt associated with living in harmony with nature and culture.
The portrayal of men as a malevolent force in society and its impact on young men and boys.
The societal ethos associating masculinity with destructiveness and oppression.
The negative consequences of weaponizing the sense of guilt in men.
The idea that men should 'castrate themselves' as a response to societal accusations.
The psychoanalytic view of the anger towards masculinity as a manifestation of a 'devouring mother' archetype.
The hatred directed towards efforts to speak positively about masculinity.
The cultural demand for advocating the utility of the masculine spirit.
The impact of family fragmentation on women's perceptions of men.
The attraction of younger women to men with dark triad traits due to a lack of positive male role models.
The difficulty in distinguishing between power and competence in relationships.
The multi-generational pattern of negative relationships with men and its societal effects.
Critique of the pathological doctrine that power is the fundamental human motivation.
The argument that free speech is a mask for justifying oppressive patriarchy.
The importance of play and its role in the development of children and social relations.
The role of fathers as the 'erection of walls' to create a secure environment for play.
The spirit of voluntary play as the antithesis to the will to power.
Transcripts
so
[Applause]
jordan obviously this new series dragons
monsters men the first one that we're
doing together this series is focused in
on how men can be men why do you think
there is such a crisis of masculinity in
the first place and why are there so
many people out there who are angry at
you for even talking to men
well i think it's i think you could
think about it as a consequence in some
sense of the lack of a concept of
original sin
oddly enough
i mean people bear an existential burden
you know
it's an intrinsic part of life to
i suppose
to feel guilty in relationship to nature
and to feel guilty in relationship to
culture
you know it's difficult for us to live
in harmony with the natural world
and for the natural world to live in
harmony with us by the way
and
none of us are all we could be on the
social front and
one of the consequences and so we we
have that sense intrinsically you know
that there's a lack in us that needs to
be redressed
and unfortunately that can be
weaponized
and has been and what i see happening
to young men in particular boys as well
not just young men and maybe even
you know
maybe starting at the age of toddlers is
that
we have this sense in the world that
human beings live in antagonism to
nature and that we're actually a
malevolent force
and that our social structures
which are clearly capable of the
commission of atrocity are fundamentally
oppressive patriarchal in their nature
and so then if you're a
male in a society with that ethos
you're
the motive force that drives you into
the world to live is associated with
rapaciousness
and despoilation on the natural front
and then oppression and atrocity on the
social front
it's like well then if you're the least
bit conscientious because this sort of
accusation hurts conscientious young men
the most then the best you can do is
well let's say castrate yourself how
would that be and that would be real
comical except that it's also happening
so i guess that's why that's why i think
there's a crisis and
it there's something serious at the root
of it right because we do have to take
the fact of our
the potential damage we can do
to
the natural world and the social world
we have to take that seriously but the
the
proper consequence of taking that
seriously is not to
commit harry carey let's say in a fit of
moral
anxiety and take yourself completely out
of the game but that's the insistence
now and it's really and i see that
psychoanalytically you know i see that
as a manifestation at a symbolic level
of something like
well symbolically that's associated with
the devouring mother right it's
it's an overweening and destructive
false compassion that has this devouring
quality and
yeah and that's basically where we're at
so
so
you know it's
one of the things that's striking about
the sort of hatred that you've gotten
from so many is that you you've
literally been asked why you're even
bothering to speak to men i mean there
is this crisis masculinity right there
is this idea that every form of macular
and masculinity is toxic and you've
spent your life trying to talk to men
and say no no you can channel that
masculinity in not only a good way but a
necessary and productive and and useful
way and people gotten angry at you for
this where do you think that's coming
from why
it's obviously a good thing that you're
doing why are so many people upset with
you well the thing is i never really set
out to talk to men specifically i but i
did set out at least in part to make a
case for the utility of both the
feminine and the masculine spirit and it
turned out that making the case for the
masculine spirit was something that was
more demanded by the culture let's say
the anger that's a complicated issue we
touched on some of it in relationship to
the despoiling of nature and the idea of
the oppressive and atrocity atrocity
committing patriarchy but then there's
another issue too which i think is
germane
because of family fragmentation
there's a very large number of women
who have just like there's a very large
number of men who
have never had a real word of
encouragement in their whole life
it's a really sad thing to see it's a
really really sad thing to see to see
that deeply and to have seen that
reflected in so many thousands of people
but there are many women who've never
had a positive relationship with anyone
male in their life
and so one of the consequences of that
we know for example that younger women
are more likely to be attracted to men
who show dark triad traits narcissistic
machiavellian and psychopathic and
people who have those traits are
characterized by the mimicry of
competence and so what women want in men
more than anything else is competent
generosity and the data on that are very
clear but you can mimic that if you're
narcissistic and if you're a young woman
you woman you can be deluded by that
it's partly because it points to the
problem of dissociating
competent confidence
from
the expression of power per se
so we could call power
i'll define that as the willingness and
ability to use compulsion
to attain your aims now if you are
someone who
has a proclivity to manifest
power then that looks like
the manifestation of both ambition and
will
and if you haven't had a positive
relationship with anyone masculine in
your life and maybe with not even with
your own internal masculinity say you
can't discriminate between
power and
competent the ambition that serves
competence and so because that's
terrifying because the power if you have
nate had only negative relationships
with men their their capability to use
power becomes such a threat
that
it has to be opposed at all costs even
if it manifests itself within the
say within the
developmental pathway of your own son
and so
so some of that's familial breakdown and
then you have a multi-generational
pattern of that that makes it even worse
and so that's that's definitely part of
it you know there's an ideological drum
that's being beaten constantly
both on the
sociological constructivist front right
that's the oppressive patriarchy and
then on the environmental front and then
you add to that the fact that
well on the leftists especially the
radical types their whole damn doctrine
it's the most pathological doctrine you
could invent if you set out to invent a
pathological doctrine and i i mean that
i'm not making a joke i i really mean
that in the deepest possible sense the
notion that
the fundamental human motivation is the
willingness and ability to use
compulsion power power it's all about
power and every time i hear that now
from someone i think that is not a
sociological observation
that is a confession
on your part and so and it's also just
complete bloody nonsense i mean
all you all know this
you have friends because they're
compelled to be your friends
like
that's definitely not how you have
friends you might have
bully henchmen that way but you don't
have friends
power is an extraordinarily unstable
basis to establish a marriage on plus it
just doesn't work because it turns out
that women who are so annoying are very
difficult to oppress you know so you can
try but
it's not that easy and i don't think
that we've been all that historically
successful in doing so but it's also a
pr it's also a preposterous proposition
because
because
the expression of power with an intimate
relationship does not produce intimacy
or a relationship the best it can
produce produces like a combination of
tyranny and slavery and that does not
characterize the institution of marriage
per se
so there is this insistence among them
among the radicals that power is the
fundamental
motivation and that's and then you think
too
okay you're only motivated by power that
means that we can only get along if our
interests align because if you're
motivated by power and i'm motivated by
power and our interests don't align
and there's nothing else but power
then the only option i have is to turn
you into an enemy and try to destroy you
because
we can't engage in dialogue
that's dialogos and the reason we can't
engage in dialogue is because there's no
logos there's just power so there's no
such this is why it's good thing for
conservatives to understand you have to
understand that the debate about free
speech on campus
in the deepest sense is not a debate
about who should be allowed to speak
freely
that's nothing that's that's a trivial
debate
you can even understand it in some sense
if i don't agree with you maybe i don't
want you to talk but the debate is about
something much deeper which is whether
or not
the idea of free speech itself
is just a mask developed essentially by
europeans to justify the oppressive
patriarchy in the most devious possible
way and the answer the radicals have to
that question is yes that's exactly what
it is and so there's there's no free
speech whatsoever that's an illusion
that's promulgated by people who are
only trying to justify their claim to
power that's what the bloody argument is
about
and so and i just think all of that's
i it's wrong in every way it's wrong
theologically it's wrong psychologically
it's wrong scientifically even
chimpanzees who have a patriarchal
social structure
their social structures if they are
based on the
on power on compulsion
they're unstable
and the alpha chimps who use power are
very likely to meet an extraordinarily
brutal and premature end so franz dewal
the dutch primatologist has detailed out
this wonderfully he's shown that even
among our closest biological relatives
it's the ability to make peace and to
engage in reciprocal interactions that
constitutes the basis for a stable
polity even among chimps and it's
obviously the case that that's
the proper basis for social relations
especially among free people and i've
been trying to puzzle out
especially my lecture tour recently what
the antithesis to
power is or to the will to power let's
say in terms of arbitrary compulsion and
it's something like the spirit of free
and voluntary play
and that's a wonderful thing to know
it's so optimistic we guys were talking
about optimism earlier you know if
you're so imagine this is that if you
structure your relations optimally and i
mean optimally
with yourself with your intimate partner
with your family with your community
the highest level of attainment of that
structuring
is the manifestation of the spirit of
voluntary play and that's so lovely
because there's nothing better than
playing fundamentally and you know human
beings and other mammals as well also
have a biological circuit that mediates
play that was discovered by a man yak
pancep and he showed that
play is unbelievably important to the
development of children
for a variety of complicated reasons
partly because they're practicing to be
competent adults but also that it can be
suppressed by almost any other emotion
or motivation so your kids can't really
play if they're hungry or tired or wet
or or upset
the same would apply within your
relationship if there's stresses and
tensions the play disappears
but if you optimize the relationship and
the circumstance then the spirit of play
can manifest itself and i would also say
that's also the fundamental purpose of
fathers in some sense is to imagine that
paradise that's a walled garden that's
what paradise means so it's walls
structure and then the garden inside is
nature and a nature that's tended
the masculine role in
in child rearing is something like the
erection of the walls
so that play can manifest itself within
the walls that's a real good combination
of security because that's what the
walls are for but then
the kind of freedom that allows for
untrammel development to occur in the
most positive possible sense and so i
would say that
those of us who are standing against the
radicals who insist that the only human
motivation is power
can oppose that in part by putting
forward the observation that the proper
antithesis to that is the spirit of
voluntary play and that's what i hope
we're going to do with the daily wire
you
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