L&L with John Benson

Summary

The speaker shares his journey from a corporate career to fractional consulting, focusing on change management in sales. He discusses the Kubler-Ross grief cycle's application to corporate change, emphasizing the importance of managing expectations during the 'honeymoon' phase and navigating the 'valley of dissonance.' Drawing from his experience with Sales QB, he outlines a six-step process for improving sales in SMBs and suggests tactics for fostering change adoption, including transparency, support, and leading by example. The talk concludes with an invitation for further discussion among fractional professionals.

Takeaways

• 😀 The speaker transitioned from a corporate career to living on a sailboat in Key West and working on Upwork, illustrating a significant life and career change.
• 📚 He authored a couple of books during his time away from the corporate world, showing a shift towards creative endeavors.
• 🔗 In January, he aligned with Sales QB, a fractional collective focusing on small to medium businesses, indicating a return to professional services with a fractional model.
• 👔 With 40 years of experience in sales, the speaker's expertise lies in this area, highlighting his long-term dedication to sales.
• 📈 He discusses applying change management consulting to CSO projects, suggesting the importance of managing change effectively in business transformations.
• 🎓 The Kubler-Ross grief cycle is introduced as a model for understanding individual reactions to change, which has parallels in corporate change management.
• 🏢 Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC) is mentioned as a major player in IT services, which acquired a boutique consulting firm to enhance their change management practice.
• 📉 The speaker describes the 'valley of dissonance, despair, or destruction' as a phase in change management projects where resistance and discomfort peak.
• 🛠️ He emphasizes the importance of managing expectations and preparing for challenges during the change process, rather than just focusing on the positive outcomes.
• 👥 The speaker suggests involving employees and stakeholders in the change process, and being vigilant about their reactions to minimize negative impacts.
• 💡 The script concludes with an invitation for further discussion, indicating an openness to sharing experiences and learning from others in the field.

Q & A

What was the speaker's professional background before 2007?

Before 2007, the speaker had a background in corporate fractional SAS, working with companies to implement Enterprise SAS solutions, train their staff, and establish new channels.

What significant life change did the speaker make in 2007?

In 2007, the speaker scheduled a midlife crisis, bought a sailboat, and moved to Key West, where he lived on a sailboat for a decade.

What did the speaker do during his time away from corporate work?

During his time away, the speaker took a few years to become a writer and authored a couple of books.

How did the speaker get involved with Upwork?

The speaker discovered Upwork in 2011 and joined the platform, through which he conducted a significant amount of business with hundreds of clients.

What is Sales QB and how did the speaker align with it?

Sales QB is a fractional collective of individuals specializing in fractional practice at the small to medium business layer. The speaker aligned with Sales QB in January to work on projects involving companies with revenues between 2 million to 15 million.

What is the Kubler Ross grief cycle and how is it related to change management?

The Kubler Ross grief cycle, developed by Elizabeth Kubler Ross in the 1960s, describes the stages of grief people go through after a significant loss. It has been adapted to describe how companies go through a similar cycle when change is induced.

What was Jim Champy's contribution to change management consulting?

Jim Champy, who ran the Index Group and was later acquired by CSC, is known as the father of change management consulting. He pioneered the application of change management theory to corporate America.

How does the speaker describe the honeymoon phase in a change project?

The honeymoon phase in a change project is characterized by excitement and positivity, where everyone is looking forward to the benefits of the change, such as improved business systems or increased revenue.

What is the 'Valley of Dissonance, Despair, or Destruction' in the context of change management?

The 'Valley of Dissonance, Despair, or Destruction' refers to the phase in a change project where the reality of the change starts to set in, causing discomfort, potential project failures, and resistance among team members.

What is the speaker's approach to managing the amplitude of emotions during the change management process?

The speaker aims to manage the amplitude of emotions by tempering excitement during the honeymoon phase and being vigilant for signs of dissonance, despair, or destruction during the valley phase, to minimize the depth of the negative impact.

What are some of the tactical activities the speaker suggests to encourage adoption of a change management cycle?

The speaker suggests acknowledging change, providing context, being transparent, supporting human resources, empathizing, listening, addressing fears, facilitating and exploring acceptance, providing resources, leading by example, involving employees, monitoring progress, and having a feedback loop.

How does the speaker handle resistance to change within a sales team?

The speaker handles resistance by being disciplined and empathetic but also by having the authority to release team members who do not cooperate. In more difficult cases, they may change the compensation plan to encourage performance or 'starve them out' of the company.

What is the speaker's experience with fractional engagements and how does it relate to change management?

The speaker's experience with fractional engagements involves working with small businesses to improve their sales processes. This involves a six-step process that maps into the change management curve, which includes conducting a sales audit, improving lead generation, developing repeatable sales processes, improving CRM systems, enhancing sales management, and coaching and training.

How does the speaker approach managing change in a company that has been traditionally resistant to it?

The speaker approaches managing change by leading with honesty, transparency, and communication. They also emphasize the importance of having a clear end goal and understanding the business's needs for improved performance.

What is the speaker's method for dealing with teams that are resistant to change?

The speaker suggests finding bottom-up pain points that the process improvements will resolve, which can help sell the changes to the team and gain their acceptance and compliance.

How does the speaker handle the emotional aspect of change management?

The speaker uses humor and transparency to handle the emotional aspect of change management. They openly acknowledge the change and its potential discomfort, and they provide context to help team members understand the reasons behind the change.

What is the speaker's view on the importance of executive support in change management?

The speaker believes that executive support is crucial in change management, especially when facing resistance. They suggest leveraging resources at the executive level and finding champions within the organization who can help push the agenda.

Outlines

00:00

🚀 Transition to Fractional Sales and Change Management Consulting

The speaker recounts their professional journey from working in corporate environments to becoming a fractional sales professional. Initially involved with enterprise software in the late 1990s to early 2000s, they took a sabbatical to write books and later discovered Upwork in 2011. They have since worked with hundreds of clients on diverse projects. In January, they joined sales QB, a fractional collective focusing on small to medium businesses. The speaker has 40 years of sales experience and shares a story about applying change management consulting to projects, referencing the Kubler Ross grief cycle as a foundational concept in understanding how individuals and organizations react to change.

05:01

📚 Insights into Change Management and Corporate America

The speaker delves into the concept of change management, drawing parallels between the Kubler Ross grief cycle and how companies respond to change. They explain that changes such as new divisions, software, or operational shifts can trigger a cycle of reactions similar to grief, including denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. The speaker then discusses Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC), a major IT services provider, and its acquisition of Jim Champy's boutique consulting firm, which led to the development of change management consulting practices. Champy's work suggested that the techniques used by psychiatrists to help individuals cope with grief could also be applied to corporate change management.

10:02

🛠 Application of Change Management in Sales Projects

The speaker outlines their experience with change management, particularly in the context of a sales project for USAA, a large insurance corporation. They describe the process of engaging with Holland and Davis, a boutique firm in Houston, to compete against industry giants like CSC for an IT project. The project involved applying change management principles to IT projects, observing the reactions of stakeholders and executives throughout the process. The speaker emphasizes the importance of managing expectations and preparing for the 'valley of dissonance' that often follows the initial excitement of a change project.

15:04

🔍 Navigating the Change Management Curve in Sales

The speaker discusses the application of the change management curve in sales projects, using the framework of a sales QB project as an example. They describe a six-step process that includes a sales audit, lead generation improvements, development of repeatable sales processes, CRM system enhancements, sales management improvements, and coaching and training. The speaker notes that the initial excitement of a project can lead to a 'valley of dissonance' where challenges arise, and it's crucial to manage expectations to avoid this phase becoming too severe. They emphasize the importance of transparency and setting realistic expectations during the project's early stages.

20:05

🤝 Human Resource Strategies for Change Management

The speaker focuses on the human resource aspects of change management, highlighting the importance of empathy, active listening, and addressing fears during the transition. They discuss the need to provide support and resources to help employees adapt to new processes and systems. The speaker shares personal anecdotes, such as helping an account executive adjust to new sales methods, and emphasizes the importance of transparency and proactive communication. They also mention the use of group sessions to foster a sense of community and shared experience among team members going through change.

25:08

🌐 Cross-Functional Collaboration in Change Management

The speaker discusses the importance of cross-functional collaboration in managing change, particularly in the context of ethics and compliance. They share an example of engaging different departments to identify pain points and develop solutions, making the change process feel seamless. The speaker emphasizes the value of involving various stakeholders in the change process, leveraging their expertise and influence to drive the necessary adjustments and improvements.

30:09

🔧 Managing Resistance to Change in Sales Teams

The speaker addresses the challenge of managing sales teams that resist change, drawing from their experience as a turnaround agent for underperforming sales teams. They discuss the importance of honesty, transparency, and communication in gaining buy-in from team members. The speaker also talks about the tactics used to deal with resistance, such as leveraging executive support and finding champions within the organization. They acknowledge the difficulty of managing change in such environments and the need for a disciplined yet empathetic approach.

🤔 Overcoming Change Resistance: Perspectives from Sales, COO, and CMO Roles

The speaker invites input from a chief operating officer and a chief marketing officer regarding their experiences with change management. They discuss strategies for dealing with resistance to change, such as finding bottom-up pain points and leveraging executive influence. The conversation highlights the importance of aligning stakeholders and having open communication channels. The speaker also shares their approach to managing change, which includes being prepared to make tough decisions if necessary.

Keywords

💡Fractional SaaS

Fractional SaaS (Software as a Service) refers to cloud-based software provided on a subscription basis, allowing companies to use software without full ownership. In the video, the speaker mentions working with companies to get their enterprise SaaS up and running, indicating his role in implementing and optimizing SaaS solutions.

💡Midlife Crisis

A midlife crisis is a period of personal doubt and emotional turmoil that some individuals experience during middle age. The speaker scheduled his midlife crisis for May 3rd, 2007, and decided to buy a sailboat and move to Key West, indicating a significant lifestyle change.

💡Upwork

Upwork is a freelancing platform that connects businesses with independent professionals. The speaker joined Upwork in 2011 and completed numerous projects through the platform, showcasing his adaptability and entrepreneurial spirit.

💡Change Management

Change management involves preparing, supporting, and helping individuals, teams, and organizations in making organizational change. The video discusses applying change management consulting to projects, drawing parallels between personal grief cycles and organizational change cycles.

💡Kubler-Ross Grief Cycle

The Kubler-Ross grief cycle is a model that describes the stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. The speaker compares this cycle to the stages organizations go through during change, emphasizing the emotional aspects of corporate transformations.

💡Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC)

CSC was a major IT services company known for its government and commercial consulting practices. The speaker describes CSC's acquisition of the Index Group and its significance in pioneering change management consulting.

💡Sales QB

Sales QB is a collective of fractional sales executives who help small to medium businesses improve their sales processes. The speaker aligned with Sales QB, indicating his current focus on helping businesses through fractional sales leadership.

💡Valley of Dissonance

The Valley of Dissonance refers to the period during a change project where initial excitement wanes, and difficulties arise. The speaker highlights this as a critical phase where projects can fail if not managed properly, emphasizing the importance of mitigating negative emotions.

💡USAA

USAA is a financial services company serving military members and their families. The speaker recounts his experience working on a project with USAA, which involved bidding against major consulting firms and implementing change management practices.

💡Sales Audit

A sales audit involves evaluating a company's sales processes to identify strengths and weaknesses. The speaker explains that this is the first step in his six-step process for improving sales performance, setting the stage for subsequent changes and improvements.

Highlights

Transition from corporate to fractional SAS, leveraging a Rolodex for enterprise layer consulting.

Midlife crisis led to a move to Key West and a decade of living on a sailboat.

Became a writer and discovered Upwork in 2011, leading to hundreds of clients and diverse projects.

Aligned with Sales QB, focusing on fractional practice for small to medium businesses.

Involvement in change management consulting, particularly for CSO projects.

Introduction of the Kubler Ross grief cycle as a model for understanding change processes.

Computer Sciences Corporation's (CSC) role in IT services and change management consulting.

Jim Champy's acquisition by CSC and the integration of change management consulting.

Application of change management theory to corporate America, including the honeymoon and valley phases.

USAA project win and the experience of living inside a change management project.

Sales QB's six-step process for fractional engagements in small businesses.

Correlation between the amplitude of excitement and the depth of discomfort during change.

Strategic management of emotions during the selling and early implementation cycle.

Importance of being vigilant during the dissonance, despair, or destruction phase of change.

Tactical activities for encouraging adoption of change management cycles.

Acknowledging change and providing context to executives and salespeople.

Human support during change, including empathy and addressing fears.

Facilitating acceptance and providing resources to aid in the transition.

Dealing with resistance to change, including strategies for managing non-adopters.

Transcripts

started on a

story uh about one of the SB experiences

that that led to this area of awareness

um from 2000 or 1997 to 2007 I was just

a typical corporate fractional SAS was

just starting to come out at the

Enterprise layer um so I had a a good

Rolodex and I would work with companies

on on six and nemon uh uh trips to uh to

get their Enterprise sass up train their

people produce playbooks open up new

channels um I scheduled my midlife

crisis for May 3rd in uh in uh 2007 um I

bought a saleboat and moved to Key West

so I have lived on a sailboat in Key

West for a decade and uh took three or

four years out to be a riter and wrote a

couple books um found this little bitty

system called upwork in

2011 and joined upwork and have done

just a an enormous amount of business

through upwork um hundreds of clients

all sorts of stuff um uh most recently

in January I aligned with sales QB um

it's a sort of a fractional Collective

of uh individuals that enjoy the the

fractional practice at the small to

medium business layer so my typical

projects are joining companies that are

2 million to 13 to 15 million to account

Executives

468 um kind of Frontline of sales so um

uh I've been in sales for 40 years and

it's it's my thing and I'm going to tell

you a story about um applic applying um

change management consulting to cso

projects or um any other types of

projects so we have already been through

this all right and I've talked a little

bit about what's going on now this is

kind of where we're going to start right

here um and the the story of how I got

into this is um based on a a job

experience I had from 1990 to 1997 and I

got hooked up with a little bitty IT

consulting firm we had visions of

grandeur to compete with the big six at

the time and hit client server just

right and grew to 650 resources now this

is kind of the interesting way to start

this how many folks have heard of the

Kubler Ross grief cycle okay this was um

a a change curve that was pioneered by a

psychologist in the

1960s um by the name of Elizabeth Kubler

Ross and it's basically designed to of

all things describe the grieving process

if there is an event in your life or you

learn of impending doom or lose somebody

and it has been shown that statistically

most people go through a curve where

they have a denial phase and it's going

to be okay and then they go through

anger bargaining depression and

acceptance so an entire psychological

practice has been developed around kuer

Ross's grief cycle all righty so that's

kind of fact number one now here is fact

number two um there's a company called

Computer Sciences Corporation now in CSC

was started in the

1960s and it became a multinational

provider of IT services um operations in

North America Europe Asia Australia they

had just a a huge government presence

and they were inside of the military

NASA um the IRS and they also had a um a

a Consulting practice in the commercial

area and just so you know how these guys

ended up in 2017 a little while back

they merged with h HP the Enterprise

Services Group but back in the

1990s CSC was a major player it was said

in the same terms of Anderson at the

time and price and Ernst and deoe um so

that was the type of firm they had now

this is where it gets interesting in

1988 a gentleman by the name of Jim

champy who was running a boutique

Consulting organization called the index

group based out of a location very close

to MIT and MIT was a part of his

research lab was purchased by CSC so

essentially CSC said hey we're going to

go pick up the gentleman who is now

known as the father of change management

consulting as an acquisition so now we

have this company doing massive PR s and

they purchased this Boutique Consulting

and are literally on The Cutting Edge of

change management now what did this

gentleman do for us and this is just

super fascinating what he figured out

was that although this is the grief

cycle from Kubler Ross companies go

through the exact same type of cycle

when change is induced and what can

change mean it can mean opening a new

division it can mean hiring new

individuals it can mean putting in new

enterprise software it can mean changing

operations anything that has a

structural or human resources impact on

an organization is a candidate for the

change management curve and the great

realization of the industry is that the

techniques that

psychiatrists use to help people deal

with their change management grief cycle

also happens to work in Corporate

America so I'm going to explain this

briefly and then we're gonna we're going

to go to the story about how this worked

out okay so um the first thing that

happens um in a change project briefly

is there's usually a honeymoon period

wow this is great we're going to bring

in a new fractional coo and they're

going to get all of our business systems

working better woohoo let's go

wow this is great we're going to bring

it in a new CSO and he is going to

unlock with the golden keys to the

kingdom more revenue for us and as

you've been through these projects you

know people tend to get excited

everybody's talking faster and this is a

great thing and then they have the oh oh

my moment and the oh my moment is when

change actually starts happening we're

doing our very first development of new

processes we're starting to roll out new

software we have new marketing programs

that are impacting us and what often

happens is that we move down into what

is now called the valley of dissonance

despair or destruction and depending on

how deep you go you go from an area of

dissonance wow this is kind of

uncomfortable to me to projects fall

apart initiatives are cancelled and

there is termination to work eorts

however after you get through this if

the change oriented project is

structured correctly regardless of coo

or coo or CSO or CMO we turn the corner

and we start um developing acceptance of

change the new systems kick in people

become acclimated to their environments

and we grow better and stronger than

where we started over here okay now

let's talk about what happened and why I

learned about this all right there's a

company called USAA I was working in

Houston for this little bitty at the

time 45 or 50 Resource company and we

heard about a project at USAA huge

multi- multi multi-billion dollar

Insurance Corporation and they had

brought our firm in to bid on an IT

project and since CSC had been so

aligned with the government a lot of the

executives knew these guys so they

brought in CSC and and champy and his

change management practice well our

company was about this big compared to

these guys and we did it inflammation we

didn't know anything about management

consulting so I found a little Boutique

firm called Holland and Davis in Houston

and I said hey let's team together and

put in a bid against these goliaths

right here and everybody said sure why

not let's give it a try so we took a bid

team into this now the fun part about

this is this these guys knew this guy so

they were kind of um what word am I

looking for colleagues and well-versed

in change management and they worked out

a deal with me they said John if you'll

sell this project as our sales guy um

and win we're going to bring you in as a

member of our change management team

you're going to get to carry briefcases

paish SHO sharpen pencils and create

PowerPoints but we're actually going to

involve you in this project in so much

as you have time for that so John and

his effervescent Sales Spirit going up

against some poor CSC account executive

won so we won USAA and it ended up being

um a couple $2 million IT projects so

now my consulting company is in and this

company is in and I got to live inside

of a change management project not once

but twice and watch how all of this

stuff that champy had pioneered and how

we took the application of change

management theory that we're about to

talk about into it projects all right

I'm going to pause for just a second

right now does anybody have any comments

or questions or things that they've

experienced and if nobody has anything

to say I'll keep going

ready onward we go now I have to have a

frame of reference um to talk about the

applications of the techniques that we

use here and I'm going to use the frame

of reference of a sales QB project um it

is a a standard fractional engagement

where you walk in at the beginning and

at the end we all all hope we're selling

better so my apologies to my CMO

colleagues my coo colleagues um this

will be in the frame of reference of a

sales project but it's so basic I think

um everybody's going to understand this

okay now just as a background this

little infographic is how sales QBs

position their project I'll cover it in

five seconds then we'll focus on the

change management side um when we come

into a small business we go hey we'd

like to do six things in about this

order the first thing we'd like to do um

is a sales audit and then after we have

those results the next thing we'd like

to do is we'd like to take a look at

your lead generation and how that can be

improved stabilized so that we have

opportunities to grow sales the third

thing we do is we start developing

repeatable sales processes the first

thing we do is we get inside of the CRM

and perhaps other electronic systems to

improve that the fifth thing we do is

improve the Sales Management by holding

meetings getting people used to quotas

things of that nature and the sixth

thing we do is is just coach and and

train and help people so that's our

basic six-step process what I have found

is that um this absolutely Maps into the

change management curve so let me

explain what is happening here I will

come in and do a a sales best practice

audit or come in and position all of the

good things that are going to happen

right here and clients get excited

they're really happy to be talking to

you they think this is going to be a

positive change in their organization

they're starting to count the dollars

saved by the COO or the leads generated

by the CMO or the revenue gained by the

the chief sales officer and that also

tends to extend through this second

phase that I do which is a focus on lead

inbounds now here is the secret to

success and it is absolutely

counterintuitive what can't be proved is

that the amplitude of excitement in the

honeymoon period tends to correlate to

the depth of the amplitude during the

valley phase so the recommendations from

these pioneers of change management is

counterintuitive and it's particularly

hard for a high energy sales guy like me

to do I

specifically bring down the emotions

during the selling and early

implementation cycle I don't tell them

oh my gosh this is going to be super

hard you guys have no idea what's coming

but I do say there are going to be times

where this may be uncomfortable okay not

everything is going to work perfectly

some of our staff may not transition and

have to go we're going to have growth

and development but it's going to be

harder than you think and I've actually

said that to clients and they kind of

blinked twice and they would say why are

you telling me that now and I say

because when it's harder then you will

expect it so the first thing I do in the

early part of any project right here is

to try to bring down the amplitude of

everybody's let's get really excited

feelings okay now let's take a mid-stage

set of activities my mid-stage set of

activities are creating proven

repeatable sales processes and coming in

and probably realigning the CRM there

are mid-stage sales processes in the CMO

world the COO world that are different

but this is where we're trying to get

into the project and actually do the fun

fundamental work that will create the

change that we're doing now the issue

here is there are three levels of

amplitude here that are classically

called dissonance despair or destruction

and what I do is put myself on guard for

determining whether or not the

organization is experiencing

dissonance are key stakeholders

experiencing dissonance are key

Executives experiencing dissonance is

this just too much for them are people

starting to vibrate or

despair or destruction and it's

incredibly important to be vigilant of

this and reach out and take your

temperatures and the whole goal is to

minimize the depth of the amplitude of

this so that you don't get below the

despair dissonance line and into

destruction

now what happens after that in my

particular model um I get to uh

deploying The Proven repeatable sales

processes okay we can take a big breath

and now we're going to start doing this

and we're having our sales meetings and

we're building our culture and all of

the other things that do and I've got my

little sales training books that I get

everybody to buy and I'm telling them

turn to page 17 I'm going to teach you

about this and people are starting to

feel a little bit better about that and

the goal here is this has not gone as

deep so we can grow faster and on a

higher trajectory so in my world and I

would encourage in your world to think

about meta

Milestones the 1 two 3 four five six or

seven or eight or nine things that you

do that tend to be in a sequence to

start your projects or Implement new

initiatives and kind of set them off and

say okay I'm in the honeymoon period

right here what am I trying to do I'm

trying to reduce all of the giddy

feelings okay this is kind of where I

tend to be um in the um interim phase

rolling out new stuff what I'm going

going to do I'm going to be very aware

of people in organizational rack

responses from dissonance and bring it

up if there is Despair and here we have

the end point okay now let's see here so

those are the three boxes that I just

described and it might even be fun for

you folks in your own practice areas to

draw out a little bitty map like this

just to remind yourself okay I'm in

honeymoon here I've got to manage the

blue feelings I am in Valley here I've

got to manage the red feelings and I am

in stable growth here I'm trying to

manage the green feelings all righty

let's talk about where the rubber meets

the road here are Tactical activities to

encourage adoption of a change

management cycle all righty the first

thing that I do and I've already alluded

to this is I acknowledge change I start

by opening o openly acknowledging to the

executives in the in the organization I

work with and most importantly the

salespeople to say we're going to be

undergoing some change things are going

to be happening in different ways they

may feel uncomfortable there's going to

be eort on your part it may be a little

bit upsetting but let's be excited and

have a vision for 6 months from now and

I provide context I will give you an

example of this that I did today okay

account Executives we probably have been

a little laxed in the fast we're going

to start meeting every morning at 9:00

am for an amp up and ramp up meeting and

we're going to start meeting every

evening at 5:00 p.m. to talk about how

our sales day is gone now this is going

to make you feel a little comfortable

now you're going to have to be doing

things in a different way but give me a

couple months okay let's just understand

the context of meeting in a different

way and I am absolutely super

transparent um I have found that it's

better to give

clients harsh and bad and difficult news

than it is for them to find out for

their own so particularly in sales a lot

of people are always trying to be super

positive um I have just found they

completely appreciate transparency all

righty what are some of the other things

to do um

support um particularly for those of you

are working on the um HR side um human

support during this is incredibly

important I had to empathize yesterday

with my new account executive David

David likes to make sales calls walking

around that's just how he is we're not

going to be doing that anymore we're

going to be doing Zoom meetings not

phone calls so I need to get him to

learn to sit down and present on Zoom he

doesn't get to be a young man walking

around the office and and being a a

Traer for example and I said it's hard

David I know it's not as much fun but

this is just very important to do so we

add visual blah blah blah blah BL blah

um obviously the nature of listening

actively addressing fears again huge

human resource Factor one of the

greatest fears I experience is what's

going to happen to my income on

commission by virtue of your new

repeatable sales processes by virtue of

how this new CRM is going to address me

um a technique that I use is that Friday

at 4M um I host um a what I call Hunters

only session for all of the salespeople

across all of my clients to come we

crack open a bottle of wine or get an

iced tea or have a Jack and Coke and we

talk about our week what did it feel

like to lose those deals do we feel like

other people are selling better than us

and we have almost like a kind of a

group therapy for this so the way to

deal with change is work the HR side

empathize listen address

fears okay and facilitate and explore

acceptance provide resources okay I'm

taking you into a new sales process but

here's your sales um here's your sales

Playbook these are all the steps I want

you to take I've provided templates for

you to use here are emails for you to

use so these are all the techniques that

you can do to encourage adoption and

lead by example involve employees

monitor progress have a feedback loop

and so forth and so on now I've kept it

really short I just want to open up the

floor to discussion and I'm going to go

one by one so nobody just sits there

quiet Darcy tell me one example of a

change project that you're in and did

this apply and what did you do share one

experience with

us um yeah so I'm I'm not actively

working on any at the moment but my

previous employer was uh you were

talking about um getting into SAS and my

previous employer was a software company

that had a long history with on premise

and was moving into into cloud and SAS

and so I was working in a transformation

office where we were trying to help

everyone internally um kind of get to

that stage and I think there was a lot

of understanding that that there was

acceptance that that was the way the

company was moving and that we needed to

go there but when we started getting

into gra brass tax around you know this

is this we we've got to change some

processes here and you got to start

working with other functional partners

and you know you have what you have in

your head for how it worked in the past

is not going to work moving forward and

I think that was where I started to

experience as a person who was coming in

with the you know the flags for

championing the change I started getting

a little bit of you know foot dragging

and resistance and things like that

where it was like okay I get that we

need to do this but I don't want to

specifically change what I'm doing I

know what I'm doing in my head and I

don't want to do it differently so you

know that that curve very much resonates

with me I had experienced it before but

never thought about it in the context of

of all this um sure so yeah that that

definitely resonates um one of the uh

the fun things that I do is and it's a

little bit dangerous because you never

know a person's home life but I will

actually print out the Kubler Ross curve

and I'll print out the change management

curve and I will hand them the change

management curve and I say we're in the

Valley right now and then I will hinder

the Kubler Ross death and dying and go

but nobody's going to die and everybody

laughs and has a good time with that and

there's a little bit of risk there

because you never know if somebody's

grandmother is sick or not um get and

jolly what would you like to contribute

do you have anything that you would like

to add what has your experience

been um so I'm in the business as I

mentioned earlier ethics and compliance

which is the soft touchy things that

touch culture so there's a lot of change

management I think the way that I've

tried

to get folks on board is to bring in

those cross functional Partners the

different department so I mean one

example is a policy on third-party risk

yeah bringing in the commercial teams

bringing in the procurement teams asking

them to find their pain points um and

then bringing the solutions right having

them drive but then also having them

lead the trainings and what it is that

we're trying to adjust and so that it

feels seamless as if it's always been

there yeah yeah you know there's

something you just said that that I'm

gonna I'm going to put in the computer

and keep there um during the honeymoon

period it it may be something for me to

do to actually put together a formal

risk document and say okay guys as we go

into the valley here are the risks that

I see and share that as part of reducing

the amplitude um on the honeymoon period

Chris um any comments things that you'd

like to say um areas that you can

share

um just a different a different angle um

is in trying to put process improvements

in place uh try to find pain points even

for the people that are going to have to

be dealing with the process so it's not

a necessarily a top down thing but try

to find uh you know bottom up pain

points that are going to be resolved by

the process so I had an example of an

engineering team that was that was

pretty bad at estimating

projects and um and that caused problems

for the for the company um having

disappointed customers

um and uh but it also caused problems

for the engineers because they ended up

having to work overtime and and that

sort of thing to uh to make up for their

poor estimates so in putting a process

in place I was able to kind of sell it

to both you know the engineers hey it's

going to be more work for you up front

and it's going to feel a little bit

rigid but it's going to save you pain on

the end that helped with acceptance and

compliance as well

C is it cabon did I pronounce that

correctly ma'am hey there it's h sioban

shobon Gallaher uh just calling dialing

in from London so hi everybody um very

interesting to hear your presentation

John um so I'll give you a bit of

background around my situation I have

worked for a number of private Equity uh

firms who have

acquired uh SAS companies that's s I'm a

SAS go to market leader um with 20 odd

years experience and so I I basically

come in and I'm a turnaround agent I am

hard to ramp up under performing sales

teams and I'm interested to

know uh basically how do you manage

teams that actually don't want to change

um

because I you're post that seems very

simple but um you know for me I've had

teams that are just there's no buying

and there's not really a lot of buying

from the founders either and quite

frankly there's been quite a lot of push

back sometimes uh or people are

sometimes actively working against me

where if I've been brought in and the

incumbent is still in place and you know

very difficult situation to manage

so how do you how do you operate I mean

for me um I'm I lead with honesty

transparency um and

communication sometimes the business is

not quite clear where what the end goal

is apart from improved

performance any advice that the group

can give i' be very uh open to receive

we're going to do a roundabout on that

and I'll do the sales one and then

perhaps Jessica or one of our Coos can

do a COO version and then I believe

Nadia you're a CMO um or whomever is a

CMO can do this I will shend the sales

version for five minutes and and you're

about to see me take a extremely sad

demeanor now do keep in mind I work in

small businesses 2 million to five or 15

million so I have a vastly more flexible

human resource his environment to do

this um there is sadness on my face

because on average one out of the four

account Executives that I adopt in a

sales QB sales turnaround doesn't make

it literally I have uh 25% on average

attrition ratio and I never know who

it's going to be when I walk in um but I

do know that some of them are going to

fight with me over this and I have an

arranged with the executives in advance

that I have higher and Fire Authority um

and about a week and a half into this I

let the sales team know that I

absolutely can release you and we'll do

it professionally um but this is due or

go um with me so I have um a disciplined

empathetic approach but I fire people if

they don't play ball with me um that's

number one in cases where it's more

difficult to fire people um if they

don't cooperate I simply starve them out

of the company okay I change their comp

plan and make their base go way down and

I make their commission go way up and if

they're not selling it starves them out

of the company we um divest from EOC and

all of those things that is the horrible

ugly side of my business that is what

keeps me going back to my um Episcopal

church every Sunday and asking myself in

front of those that should evaluate me

am I doing the right thing um salese

have to deal with people that don't

adopt a change in very severe ways let

me get that ugliness out of it right now

is there a chief operating officer Among

Us who would speak to how you deal with

companies that are not accepting change

that are putting up blocks something

that can positive and bring our spirit

back up Jessica I'm looking at you and

hoping you have some words to share here

yeah it's it's interesting because I

think similar to you John a lot of the

compan comp I've been at have been

smaller kind of early stage startups

high growth startups so my ability

to I don't know maneuver or you know

influence the change is higher than if

you're at like a larger

organization

um but I I tend to try to go back to

some of the tactics we were already

talking about I think um it was Chris

who made a good point about what's that

bottom up approach and how can you like

continue to find the ways that someone

can get bought into the

change um and then also leveraging your

resources at the executive level if

you're especially if you're coming in

from the outside and you're getting

pushed up against resistance like who

are your Champions within the

organization who have influence and can

push the agenda as needed so if it's you

know in your case like the private

Equity firms or whoever is hiring you

that have to come in and and you know

throw some weight around I don't think

that's necessarily a failure on you it's

it's the support that you need to kind

of get to the outcomes you're you know

are right for the business um sure I

don't know if that's helpful but no

that's very helpful and I think maybe um

that's that's one of the key things

where um the private Equity Fund we're

still not quite uh they were aligned to

the CEO and he I I didn't have her or

far I had har in par but not far in

par I think that's the critical

difference

because um if I had it might have made

it easier but yeah all very valid points

thank you absolutely um I'd love to hear

from one of our chief marketing officers

marketing and change management you're

literally changing to the world how

companies are being presented they're

messaging their positioning um the types

of inbounds that you create is there a

chief marketing officer Among Us that

has been through a change project and

either had challenges that they had to

solve who among the CMOS will speak with

us you know the CMOS are the quietest

ones on the planet really they really

are they're going to let their Google

sponsored ads do the talking so we're

just going to let them do with that okay

I'm going to go ahead and wrap it up now

but before everybody leaves I'm going to

type in my um email address it's john.

Benson

salesqb

docomo please send me a note I think it

would be great to just go have an iced

tea somewhere near downtown there are

only a few fractionals in Nashville we

can get to know each other so um I'll

buy the first round of ice tea um

anybody that would like to talk to me

later about whatever topics are welcome

to call me okay thank you so much for

your time and I hope