Freud's "Mourning and Melancholia" - Dr. Rodrigo Sanchez Escandón
Summary
TLDRRodrigo Sánchez, psicoanalista de la Asociación Psicoanalítica Británica, discute la obra de Freud 'El duelo y la melancolía', destacando la importancia de comprender el proceso de duelo frente a la pérdida. Explica cómo el duelo lleva a recordar sin la esperanza de reencuentro, mientras que la melancolía implica una identificación con el objeto perdido. Aborda la compleja relación entre el yo, el objeto y la libido, y cómo la retirada de la libido puede estar vinculada a la depresión y la pérdida de identidad.
Takeaways
- 📚 El psicoanalista Rodrigo Sanchez habla sobre el ensayo 'El duelo y la melancolía' de Sigmund Freud.
- 🧠 La obra de Freud es considerada una de las más importantes en la historia del psicoanálisis.
- 😢 El duelo es un proceso normal de enfrentamiento ante una pérdida, mientras que la melancolía es un camino alternativo.
- 🤔 La rebelión del ego ante la realidad marca el inicio del proceso del duelo.
- 💔 La relación con la persona perdida se convierte en el centro de la vida emocional del individuo.
- 🏠 El duelo implica un proceso de introspección y recordación intensa.
- 🕯️ La melancolía se caracteriza por mantener una relación con el objeto perdido como si aún estuviera presente.
- 🔄 Freud sugiere que el proceso del duelo puede revivir experiencias de duelo pasadas.
- 📅 La publicación del ensayo coincide con el trabajo de Freud en el narcisismo y la teoría de la libido.
- 🌑 La 'sombra del objeto' proyectada sobre el ego es un concepto clave en la obra de Freud.
- 💞 La identificación con el objeto perdido puede llevar a tratarlo como si fuera el propio ego.
- 🔄 La inversión y retirada de la libido son elementos fundamentales en el proceso del duelo y la melancolía.
Q & A
¿Por qué considera el orador que el ensayo de Freud sobre el duelo y la melancolía es uno de los más importantes en la historia del psicoanálisis?
-El orador considera que el ensayo de Freud es uno de los más importantes porque ofrece una explicación profunda de los procesos que atraviesa una persona al enfrentarse a la pérdida, explorando tanto el duelo normal como el camino hacia la melancolía.
¿Cuál es el proceso normal de duelo según Freud?
-Freud describe el duelo normal como un proceso donde el ego se rebela ante la realidad, negando inicialmente la pérdida, para luego retirarse a sí mismo y procesar las emociones y recuerdos asociados con la persona perdida, sin la esperanza de reencontrarla en el futuro.
¿Qué diferencia hay entre el duelo normal y la melancolía según Freud?
-En el duelo normal, la persona acepta progresivamente que el ser querido no regresará, mientras que en la melancolía la persona sigue relacionándose con el objeto perdido como si aún estuviera presente, manteniendo una ilusión de su existencia continua.
¿Qué significa la frase 'la sombra del objeto cae sobre el yo' según Freud?
-Esta frase describe cómo el objeto perdido (la persona fallecida) se internaliza dentro del yo, y el ego comienza a tratarlo como si aún estuviera presente, lo que complica el proceso de duelo normal.
¿Cómo influye la teoría de Carl Abraham en el ensayo de Freud?
-Carl Abraham influyó en Freud con su concepto de la etapa canibalística del desarrollo, donde el sujeto 'devora' simbólicamente al objeto perdido. Freud retoma esta idea al hablar de cómo la sombra del objeto cae sobre el yo, permitiendo que el ego trate al objeto como si todavía estuviera presente.
¿Qué papel juegan las identificaciones en el proceso de duelo y melancolía?
-En el proceso de duelo, la persona reintroduce aspectos del objeto perdido en su vida, mientras que en la melancolía la identificación con el objeto perdido es más profunda, al punto de que el ego lo trata como si fuera la persona misma.
¿Cómo se relaciona el ensayo de Freud con la teoría del narcisismo?
-El ensayo se relaciona con la teoría del narcisismo porque Freud explora cómo las personas pueden retirar el libido del objeto perdido y reinvertirlo en sí mismas, lo que se vincula con el proceso de gratificación interna que describe en su teoría del narcisismo.
¿Cómo describe Freud el proceso económico de inversión y retirada del afecto (libido) en el duelo?
-Freud describe que en el duelo normal, el afecto o libido invertido en el objeto perdido debe ser retirado gradualmente y reasignado a otros aspectos de la vida. En la melancolía, este proceso se ve obstaculizado, y el libido permanece atado al objeto perdido.
¿Qué implicaciones tiene la idea de Freud sobre el suicidio en relación con la melancolía?
-Freud sugiere que en la melancolía, el suicidio no es simplemente el ego atacándose a sí mismo, sino que es el ego atacando a un objeto interno que representa al ser perdido, lo que refleja una identificación destructiva con ese objeto.
¿Por qué el orador considera que 'Duelo y melancolía' es un punto de inflexión en la historia del psicoanálisis?
-El orador considera que este ensayo es un punto de inflexión porque introduce nuevas perspectivas sobre las relaciones objetales, el funcionamiento del inconsciente y el manejo del afecto, lo que ha influido profundamente en el desarrollo posterior del psicoanálisis.
Outlines
📚 Introducción a la Melancolía y el Duelo de Freud
Rodrigo Sánchez, psicoanalista de la British Psychoanalytic Association, introduce el tema de la charla: el ensayo de Sigmund Freud 'Morning and Melancholy'. Sánchez explica que el trabajo de Freud es uno de los más importantes en la historia del psicoanálisis y busca explicar por qué. El ensayo trata sobre cómo las personas enfrentan la pérdida y describe dos caminos posibles: el duelo y la melancolía. Freud describe el proceso de duelo como una serie de pasos que comienza con el ego rechazando la realidad de la pérdida, llevando a una introspección intensa y una vida emocional centrada en la relación con la persona perdida. Este proceso implica recordar, fantasear y simbolizar, con la idea de que la persona no olvidará a la persona perdida, sino que se resignará a no encontrarlos en el futuro. La melancolía, por otro lado, es un proceso donde la persona se sumerge en sí misma y mantiene una relación con el objeto perdido como si aún estuviera presente.
📅 Contexto Histórico y Desarrollo del Ego
El ensayo de Freud fue escrito en 1913 y Sánchez destaca la importancia de este año, ya que coincide con el trabajo de Freud en narcisismo y su colaboración con Carl Abraham. Abraham planteó la idea de una etapa caníblica en el desarrollo, donde las personas 'devoran' a los objetos y las integran en su ego. Freud cita a Abraham sobre la sombra del objeto proyectándose en el ego, permitiendo que el ego trate a ese objeto como si fuera el objeto perdido. Esto lleva a una identificación profunda y una comprensión más compleja de la mente, donde las memorias de otros pueden ser tratadas como objetos independientes. Sánchez también menciona cómo Freud explora la idea del suicidio como un ataque del ego a un objeto interno, y cómo esto se relaciona con el superego y las voces internas que influyen en el ego.
💔 Proceso del Luto y Teoría de la Libido
Sánchez habla sobre cómo Freud explora la teoría de la libido en el contexto del luto, y cómo el proceso normal de luto implica retirar la energía y el afecto que se había invertido en la persona perdida. Esto puede llevar a una sensación de vacío y a la depresión. Freud sugiere que la sombra del objeto puede ser la empatía que deja la persona, y cómo la retirada de la libido puede estar vinculada a la pérdida de la voluntad de vivir y hacer las cosas que se amaban antes. Sánchez menciona cómo esta idea se relaciona con conceptos más modernos de la psicopatología, como la psicoisis blanca y la madre muerta, y cómo la inversión y retirada de la libido pueden ser un nuevo paradigma en el psicoanálisis. Finalmente, Sánchez recomienda leer el ensayo de Freud y agradece a la audiencia.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Melancolía
💡Duelo
💡Sigmund Freud
💡Yo (Ego)
💡Objeto perdido
💡Libido
💡Identificación
💡Narcisismo
💡Carl Abraham
💡Sombra del objeto
💡Contracati
Highlights
Rodrigo Sánchez introduces the topic of mourning and melancholy by Sigmund Freud and why it's one of the most important papers in psychoanalysis.
Freud explains two different processes when confronted with loss: mourning and melancholy.
The mourning process begins with the ego resisting the painful reality of losing someone, while continuing an intense emotional relationship with the lost individual.
In mourning, the individual withdraws into themselves, preserving memories and fantasies about the lost person.
Freud emphasizes that the goal of mourning is not to forget the lost person, but to remember them without the hope of reuniting in the future.
Melancholy is different from mourning, as the individual interacts with memories and fantasies of the lost person as if they were still present.
A melancholic individual might behave as though the lost person is still part of their everyday life, maintaining routines like setting the table for them.
Freud suggests that mourning is a process of reintroducing the lost individual into one’s emotional life, whereas melancholy leads to an unhealthy identification with the lost object.
Freud’s idea of the ‘shadow of the object’ falling upon the ego plays a significant role in understanding how people internalize loss.
The ‘shadow of the object’ concept allows the ego to treat the internalized image of the lost person as if it were the person themselves.
Freud’s idea of the ego attacking an internal object during melancholy is foundational to later theories, such as the development of the superego and object relations theory.
Freud was influenced by Karl Abraham’s concept of a cannibalistic stage of development, where the mind ‘devours’ the memories and experiences of the lost person.
The paper draws connections between mourning, melancholy, and Freud’s work on narcissism, where individuals invest libido into themselves or external objects.
The withdrawal of libido in mourning represents a redistribution of emotional energy that was once directed toward the lost person.
Freud’s paper on mourning and melancholy introduces a paradigm shift in psychoanalysis, influencing future concepts like psychosis, depression, and the internal world of the individual.
Transcripts
hello i am rodrigo sanchez a
psychoanalyst from the british
psychoanalytic association and i'm going
to be talking today about morning and
melancholy of sigmund freud and i'm
going to try to explain at least for me
why is
one of the most important papers in the
history of psychoanalysis
and as an overview
it might look at first glance that the
paper is just a
explanation of the different process
that a person can go through when they
are confronted with a loss
one process can go towards the path of
what we call the affect of mourning go
through a step section and the other can
go there was a path of melancholy
and freud started explaining what would
be a
normal process of mourning
whereby he starts with the ego rebelling
upon
reality kind of saying it's so painful
that you want to say i haven't lost this
person
and with that initial trigger it starts
a process that is quite complicated
because
not because a person is gone
it means by any ways that the
relationship the person has with them
has ended
actually quite the opposite that
relationship is now the central stage
for whole emotional life for that person
more if he's a meaningful person for the
individual that has just lost them
so basically that relationship not only
continues but is in a new place that is
quite highlighted by intense emotions
so this ego starts saying in the outside
world where this person used to be
i have nothing for me so i will
withdrawn within myself where the
memories the
whole idea of this person still exists
and it's a process of self-involvement
that will include a lot of remembering
re-remembering
daydreams fantasies
symbolizing and reintroduction
and in this process what is basically
happening progressively
is that the person will re-remember that
person the person that is gone
and they will reinterject an idea of
them whereby there is no hope that you
will meet them in the future that is to
say that you will not forget that person
that will be a misconception
it is not meant to to forget that is not
that is not the the good process of
mourning by any means
is
remembering that person
without the hope that you will meet them
tomorrow
so you are still hoping that they will
be there in some way or another
that is still a painful act that will
not let go the so-called libido
in the case of
melancholy what is going to start
happening is that the person with drones
into themselves
and keeps relating with the object
as if the object was the person that has
died that is to say that the memories
the fantasies all these things are still
there but pretty much not only with the
hope that they will be real in the in
the future but that they are really in
the present you are relating with that
idea as if they were still here
as if it's kind of the situation of the
person that is going through a difficult
breathement of a partner that had been
living with them for many years and they
still put a table with their plate and
the dishes on their side for them as if
they were going to come tomorrow
to have dinner or that evening or so on
like if there is still them present in
their lives
and well there are three elements here
that are really important for the
history of psychoanalysis the first one
is that freud quite casually comments
this idea that this process of mourning
will bring back
other previous pieces of the process of
mourning
so it's
really complex but i think that this is
one of the
inspirations of menonycline for the
depressive position this idea of
suddenly saying that there is a process
that is not unique that is to say that
if you have a bereavement when you are
25
this re bereavement the mo the moment
that you lost that person will bring
back
all the previous
process you have so more than being a
unique event more than being
that loss that you have when you were 25
is the amalgamations
of agreements that you have and
ultimately your capacity
to tolerate object loss your capacity to
process
different experiences through the affect
of morning or
through a melancholic depressive process
if that is quite an important element
that goes still was the capacity of an
individual to lose someone and to
tolerate it or not
the other element that is quite
important has to do with carl abraham
in this time ford was writing morning
and melancholy in 1913 and he sent the
first drive draft to abraham i think by
december 1913 he presented in 1914 and
was published in 17. these states matter
for a couple of reasons it's the same
year that he was working on narcissism
and in all these letters with abraham
there is this idea that abraham had in
mind of a cannibalistic stage of
development
basically they had this question
of
how do you
devour the object
how do you
move from this interaction with others
where you have an epidemic memory uh
perception and imagery anything that you
are getting from your experiences from
others
to a more complex idea of the other
within your mind
that is to say that the idea the picture
that you have of others
in early stages of development can be
seen as the amalgamations of
different experience of pleasure
displeasure imagery sensor all the
things that you are recollecting like
almost gathering
but it's also been more complex than
that and and and
abraham is
playing with this idea of devouring
and and freud in morning and melancholy
quotes abraham and he's talking about
this idea that he presented us this he
says the shadow of the object fall upon
the ego
and from this point forward the ego can
treat that object as if it was the lost
object himself so two stages one is the
shadow of the object this phrase that
has been quote many many times and is
quite important
and
everybody has a different take on
what is relevant is that it is beyond a
process of just integrating it is a
process about identification so when you
are with that other
you suddenly are left with that essence
of the other you are left with something
of the other then you can act as if it
was the other itself if that makes sense
you can act as if um
this other
is the same person as it was lost so
this this shadow is capturing this sense
it's a little bit this idea when you
have
a kid that is playing to be their father
or that is playing with all these
different things that suddenly
this role playing this process of
identification become far more complex
than just wanting to be the other and is
as this other
the so-called object
can be treated by the individual as if
it was the person himself
so
in this complex move
you have a different understanding of
the mind a mind that can treat these
memories of others
as objects that are independent to
themselves so when freud conveys the
idea of suicide he said of course it's
not the ego attacking himself
is the ego attacking an internal object
that can't represent someone else
when he talks about the superego he's
also talking about these ideas that is
the amalgamation of your father your
mother the law the society what is a
transgression what is forbidden what is
going to be your punishment no all of
these there are internal voices that can
really
infringe
distress upon the ego as if they were
the person himself as if you literally
will be disappointing your father for
not doing something right even though
your father might not be there but that
voice has been integrated as if it was
so this shadow of the object it brings a
new perspective on what it is the
unconscious and what is ultimately going
to be object relation
that is quite important and the third
point that
for me is really relevant
is the idea of how he started playing
with this notion of libido
but but it was there from before even
flies was talking to him about this idea
of losing the sexual desire and so on
and he's really important in this moment
because he's trying to explore that as
well on this rudiment of the theory of
narcissism that he published in 1914 on
the paper on narcissism that is this
kind of economic process of of investing
and withdrawing different affects from
your internal objects and from even
yourself
you can gratify different elements of
life by investing a little bit on
yourself that is among other things of
narcissism keep in mind someone that is
highly um
vanity in himself right but that idea
that you can feel loved by loving
yourself like if that is a process of
gratification from within but in the
process specifically of mourning he is
playing with this idea about how you can
the shadow of the object can be the
emptiness that that person left
so is this idea of you care for someone
but that care that affect that
everything that you have put from that
person you need to withdraw it right
so then the normal process of mourning
you will not expect that person to be
there in the future anymore you can
remember it you can care for them
you can be identified in some way or
another but now you have that energy
that passion that this position that
time however you want to conceptualize
it to put it elsewhere
but that person left something there
and these shadows this this contra
category like when you could put it it's
quite a complex idea about the
withdrawing of libido and what it meant
and and how that can be linked to
depression how can it be into losing the
wheel to be
alive losing the wheel to do something
that you love to do before
how in in the concept of white psychosis
and the dead mother of andrea green can
be a particular way of emptiness and how
in the normatic illness of christopher
bolas can be pressing as a lack of
identity and originality and so on and
clearly we need with idea of contra
catexio
but it's a whole new paradigma also what
it is this
this investment and withdrawal of this
weird concept called libido so in my
view although it's a paper that is in
1914 and in many ways has been
taken by by modernity and different
other papers of psychoanalysis that are
more profound or so on i think that is
clearly a turning point for the history
of psychoanalysis and i definitely
recommend you you give it a go
thank you
you
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