What Michael Pollan Learned from Quitting Caffeine for 3 Months
Summary
TLDRIn this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Rogan discusses the profound effects of caffeine on society and consciousness. He shares his personal experience of abstaining from caffeine for three months, which led to a heightened sensitivity and a 'psychedelic' reaction upon reintroduction. The conversation delves into the historical impact of caffeine since its introduction to Western culture in the 1650s, its role in the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution, and the concept of the 'coffee break' as a productivity tool. Rogan also contemplates the plant's evolutionary reason for producing caffeine and the complex relationship humans have with this powerful stimulant.
Takeaways
- 🌿 The conversation aims to initiate a post-drug war dialogue about substances, including legal ones like caffeine, to understand their impact on society and consciousness.
- ☕ Joe Rogan's most potent drug experience was the first cup of coffee after a three-month caffeine abstinence, highlighting the profound effect of caffeine withdrawal and reintroduction.
- 🧠 Caffeine's absence can lead to a perceived decrease in cognitive function, as Rogan felt unable to concentrate or write, indicating a deep reliance on the stimulant for many.
- 🌱 The historical entry of caffeine into Western society in the 1650s marked a shift from an alcohol-centric culture to one that embraced a more sober and focused mindset.
- 📚 The Enlightenment and the Age of Reason in Europe are linked to the rise in coffee and tea consumption, suggesting that caffeine played a role in fostering intellectual and cultural movements.
- ⏰ Caffeine's introduction to the workforce, exemplified by the 'coffee break,' was a strategic move by employers to enhance productivity, showing the substance's role in the rise of capitalism and industrialization.
- 🌞 Caffeine's influence has been so profound that it altered the way humans interact with time, enabling work beyond daylight hours and contributing to the modern 24/7 economy.
- 🔄 Rogan's personal experiment with caffeine abstinence and reintroduction led to a cycle of withdrawal, intense pleasure, and then compulsive behavior, mirroring patterns seen in drug addiction.
- 🌱 Plants produce caffeine as a natural pesticide, yet it has unintended psychoactive effects on humans, raising questions about the evolutionary purposes of such plant chemicals.
- 🍵 Green tea, with its moderate caffeine content and additional alkaloids, provides a more gradual stimulation compared to coffee, offering a different approach to managing caffeine intake.
Q & A
What is the main topic of discussion in the provided transcript?
-The main topic of discussion is the impact of caffeine on society and consciousness, including the historical context of its introduction to the West and its effects on productivity and daily life.
Why did the speaker decide to abstain from caffeine for three months?
-The speaker decided to abstain from caffeine for three months as a challenge suggested by Roland Griffith, a researcher, to understand his relationship with caffeine and its effects on his consciousness.
What was the speaker's experience like during the first week without caffeine?
-During the first week without caffeine, the speaker felt like he had contracted ADD, couldn't concentrate, and felt a veil between him and reality, making him feel not quite himself.
How did the speaker's sleep improve during the caffeine abstinence period?
-The speaker's sleep improved significantly during the abstinence period, allowing him to sleep like a teenager for up to 14 hours, which he hadn't experienced since his teenage years.
What historical period is mentioned in the transcript as being influenced by the introduction of caffeine?
-The transcript mentions the Enlightenment in France and the Age of Reason in England as historical periods influenced by the introduction of caffeine.
What is the significance of the coffee break mentioned in the transcript?
-The coffee break is significant because it represents a time when employers provided a stimulant to workers and allowed them a break to consume it, which increased productivity and efficiency.
How did the speaker feel after consuming caffeine for the first time after three months of abstinence?
-After consuming caffeine for the first time after three months of abstinence, the speaker felt waves of well-being and euphoria, followed by a compulsive desire to be productive.
What was the speaker's strategy to maintain the benefits of caffeine without becoming addicted?
-The speaker's strategy was to consume caffeine only on Saturdays, once a week, to enjoy its benefits without becoming addicted and to maintain its potency.
Why do plants produce caffeine, according to the transcript?
-Plants produce caffeine as a natural pesticide, as mentioned in the transcript, which is a fascinating aspect of how plants can create chemicals that affect human consciousness.
What is the average caffeine content in a cup of green tea compared to a cup of coffee?
-The average caffeine content in a cup of green tea is about a third of what you get in a cup of coffee, as stated in the transcript.
Outlines
🌿 Caffeine's Impact on Consciousness and History
The speaker discusses the profound effects of caffeine on human consciousness and society. They recount their personal experience of abstaining from caffeine for three months, which was challenging and led to a heightened sense of reality upon reintroduction. The historical significance of caffeine's introduction to Western culture in the 1650s is highlighted, noting how it replaced the constant state of inebriation with a more sober and focused mindset. The speaker also explores the correlation between the rise of caffeine consumption and significant cultural shifts, such as the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution.
🏭 The Birth of the Coffee Break and Its Impact on Productivity
This section delves into the origins of the coffee break, which began during World War II at a necktie manufacturing company called Wigwam Weavers. The company introduced coffee breaks to improve worker efficiency, and it worked. The speaker reflects on the coffee break as a tool for employers to enhance productivity and how it has become ingrained in the workforce culture. They also touch upon the broader implications of caffeine on the rise of capitalism and the ability to work outside the natural rhythms of the sun.
☕ A Personal Journey with Caffeine: Withdrawal and Rediscovery
The speaker shares their personal journey after three months of caffeine abstinence, including the benefits to their sleep and the sense of self-righteousness they felt around caffeine users. They describe the intense experience of drinking coffee again, which initially brought waves of well-being and euphoria but later led to irritability and compulsive behavior. The narrative includes the speaker's strategy to maintain the benefits of caffeine by using it sparingly and their eventual struggle with making exceptions to this rule. The discussion concludes with a reflection on the plant's role in producing caffeine and its broader implications on human behavior.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Caffeine
💡Psychedelic
💡Roland Griffith
💡Enlightenment
💡Industrial Revolution
💡Coffee Break
💡Baseline Consciousness
💡Golden Age
💡Wolfgang Schivelbusch
💡Addiction
💡Caffeine Withdrawal
Highlights
Starting a post-drug war conversation about drugs with a focus on caffeine, a legal and widely used substance.
The profound experience of having the first cup of coffee after three months of abstinence, describing it as psychedelic.
The challenge of going without caffeine for three months and the impact on productivity and daily life.
Feeling a veil between reality and perception while caffeine-free, questioning what it means for one's self to be caffeinated.
The historical entry of caffeine into the West in the 1650s and its impact on society and consciousness.
The cultural shift from a world where people were often drunk to one where caffeinated beverages promoted sobriety and clarity.
The correlation between the introduction of coffee and tea and the Enlightenment and Age of Reason in Europe.
The role of caffeine in enabling the Industrial Revolution and the shift to more focused work environments.
The origin of the coffee break and its historical significance in increasing workplace productivity.
The idea that the coffee break is a strategy by employers to extract more value from employees.
The personal benefits of caffeine withdrawal, such as improved sleep and a sense of self-righteousness.
The intense experience of consuming caffeine after a long period of abstinence, comparing it to the effects of cocaine.
The compulsion to be productive and organized following the reintroduction of caffeine.
The strategy of limiting caffeine intake to once a week to maintain its effects and avoid addiction.
The difficulty in maintaining caffeine restriction and the tendency to make exceptions under stress or deadlines.
Exploring the use of green tea as an alternative source of caffeine with a more gradual effect.
The fascinating concept of plants producing caffeine as a natural pesticide and its impact on human cognition.
Transcripts
the jurogan experience and
one of the things i'm trying to do with
uh this is your mind on plants is start
that
post-drug war conversation about drugs
which is one of the reasons i included
caffeine you know a totally legal drug
that everybody uses
um what does that have to teach us in a
way one of the most powerful drug
experiences i've had in my life was the
first cup of coffee after
three months off really it was
psychedelic
really incredible yeah come on try it
try getting off caffeine three months
three months without caffeine how am i
gonna do a podcast you may have to take
a hiatus i'm gonna run out of things to
talk about
i'll fall asleep it was really hard i
did it actually it's a suggestion of
roland griffith
who uh you know the psychedelic
researcher who before that was the
world's leading expert on caffeine
um and uh and i was interviewing him
about caffeine for this chapter
and he said well you're never gonna
understand your relationship to caffeine
until you get off it
so it was kind of a dare and it was
really hard it was one of the hardest
things i've done
really i was a mess for how long
three months you're a mess
until i was functional after a month um
the first week i was not functional at
all
i felt like i had contracted add
i could not stay on track
everything the periphery just kept
intruding on my thinking i couldn't
write
i mean writing is the most linear thing
you can do right right and
you and it's all about concentration
obviously and um and i couldn't
concentrate
and i i felt like there was this veil
between me and reality
that you know i was not quite seeing
getting
and it was weird i didn't feel myself
for the whole time and i thought what
does that mean
it means yourself is caffeinated
and and that is baseline consciousness
for me
and for many people and that's not a bad
thing
but i think we have a debt to these
plants that we we owe them
um and so i spent a lot of time
in that researching that chapter looking
back in history for when caffeine
enters the west and it doesn't happen
until the 1650s in europe
so we actually have a before and after
which we don't with a lot of drugs
because they just go back you know
millennia
um and before caffeine it was a very
different world
and a very different consciousness
people were drunk
a lot of the time buzzed almost all of
the time
people drank morning noon and night
because it was safer than water
right water was really how you got
diseases if you fermented things even
low
you know low alcohol it killed a lot of
the microbes um
so people even kids you gave your kids
hard cider for breakfast
um wow and this was true in america up
until the 1800s
up until prohibition um but anyway um
caffeine comes along in the 1650s and
and tea and chocolate and coffee all
arrive in the same decade in england
it's kind of like
a great decade right and um
and things start to change in the form
of coffee coffee and tea
and chocolate which also has caffeine in
it and
so what would they they had never
experienced coffee before the 1600s
that's right they had in the arab world
they had it they'd had it from like 1200
or something like that
supposedly it was discovered in 800s by
a
herder in like ethiopia who noticed that
his
goats were getting very frisky when they
ate this particular berry and would stay
up all night
and so yeah so he kind of like started
experimenting or
he brought it to these monks and they
made a drink and it's like it makes
sense that
uh it was in the arab world because if
you think about all the science that was
being done in the arab world all the
literature back then
so my theory is that the arab world had
coffee first and had this incredible
golden age
yes and there is a historian of of um
psychoactives named uh wolfgang
shivelbush and he
correlates isn't that wonderful german
of course
wolfgang shivelbush it's a great book
it's called taste of paradise
highly recommend it um and he said this
was the perfect drug for the culture
that invented mathematics
and had this incredible and it helped
the culture in two ways
one was as safe as alcohol made water
boiling it made it much safer and
coffee and tea of course both require
boiling water no one
ate a drink boiling water uh or hot
beverages before
so this gave this incredible public
health boost to these places
and then you have the drug that
basically
fosters a kind of more linear rational
focused way of thinking
and so there is a lot of evidence
linking
coffee and tea consumption with the
enlightenment in
france and with the age of reason in
england
and people in the 1600s started writing
about it so like wow people you know we
have this
new civil and sober drink that we
that and it was so popular because it
was new that people drank less
and they used more caffeine and that
i think makes possible things like the
industrial revolution because
you know when you're when you're doing
physical labor outdoors which was most
of history right
you could be buzzed you didn't have to
know what time it was you work from sun
up to sundown
there were beer breaks actually on farms
in england they would give you beer
because
it gave you calories and made you happy
um but
when you start moving into like running
machines
and doing double entry bookkeeping you
need a clearer head
and when you start moving toward night
shifts and overnight shifts
you couldn't do that without caffeine
and that's when it begins there's
a whole new like it freed us from the
rhythms of the sun
which dictated everything in western
culture
you worked you could only work till the
sun went down um
so it had a profound effect on
capitalism the rise of capitalism
and the clearest illustration of that
that i came across
is the coffee break where did that come
from
the coffee break actually has a history
we know the company that came up with it
and it was a necktie manufacturer in
denver
called wigwam weavers really and wigwam
weavers
made these very intricate silk neckties
and during world war
ii they lost all their best loom
operators to the war effort
so they hired these old guys to do it
you know who weren't
getting drafted and they couldn't do it
very well then they hired these women
to do it and they could do it
beautifully and they were very intricate
patterns very complicated looms
i mean you've seen how they you know the
patterns on neckties and um the women
could do it really well but only for
about four or five hours
so they called a meeting and the owners
said to the
workers what could we do we have to
improve uh your efficiency and you know
we need more output
and the women said well give us a coffee
break um they didn't call it that
initially and um give us some time at
like 10
in the morning and four in the afternoon
and give us some coffee and tea
so we started doing it and overnight
like their productivity and efficiency
goes up
quality control goes up and uh so he
institutes the coffee break
and um think about it your employer
gives you a drug and then gives you time
off in which to ingest
it during the workday yeah why would
they do that
because it contributes mightily so the
coffee break might seem like it's
something your boss is giving you but
it's a way to extract more value from
you and i'm sure
employees that have little breaks and
you get to enjoy
just a little bit of free time they'll
be more
they'll be happier employees so yeah
they'll probably be more productive like
the the county mr bezos yeah
and he should institute i don't know if
he has coffee breaks he wants to be on
adderall
yeah 24 7 running to the next package
yeah
tell me about your experience what your
experience was like with the three
months off and then
then having the caffeine so i had this
three months that was
really unpleasant um the only things
that were positive about it
was i slept like a teenager it really
did improve my sleep
i had some some great sleeps like i
remember from when i was a teenager you
know when you can sleep 14 hours
um that was really good i also
felt and i'm not proud of this
self-righteous
so you know and i would i remember i
remember one morning
having to get a 6 a.m flight and
i had to get up and get myself moving on
mint tea
okay and i get to the airport and it's
just when they're opening the pizza and
the starbucks and the line is like
snaking you know for those people
getting on 6 a.m flights
and i'm looking at these people and they
look like junkies you see in amsterdam
they look so pathetic and you know that
they were hooked and they needed their
they needed their fix and um and they
looked kind of miserable and withdrawal
was starting
because that first cup of coffee is not
about the pleasure it gives us it's
really about stopping withdrawal
symptoms which are beginning
overnight because you haven't had it for
24 hours um
and i felt self-righteous i'm not proud
of that
because i and i knew that i was going to
rejoin them as soon as i could
right so when i hit the three-month mark
i i decided and i need it for the ending
of the piece
uh to have a cup and see this was gonna
tell me
you know because drugs are very
different the first time you take them
right before your body is accustomed to
them
so i had this first cup and i gave a lot
of thought to where i would have it i
thought about
the original pete's is in my
neighborhood the very first pete's
but i don't love their coffee it can be
kind of burnt tasting
and so i went to a place called the
cheese board which is a
cafe bakery in my neighborhood and
they have a little pocket park out on
the street and i got a
cup got a special which is uh it's sort
of like a cappuccino but more caf more
coffee and less milk like a flat white
in australia
and we sat my wife and i judith sat
there and um i drank this drink and
it was so good
i mean i just felt these waves of
well-being and then it turned into
euphoria
and um i was like wow this is such a
strong drug i had no idea it was like
cocaine or something and um and that
lasted for
maybe 20 minutes but then something
turned that was kind of interesting
across the street there was a um a
garbage truck that was
uh grabbing hold of two garbage plastic
garbage cans and shaking them like this
and making this horrible racket
and uh and it really got under my skin i
was getting kind of
irritable and i said to judith can we go
home
you know and and i felt like i got to
get something done i felt kind of
compulsive
wow and so we walked home and i went to
my office
and i just had this desire to get [ __ ]
done
and so what i did was this is really
weird i
unsubscribed from like a hundred list
serves that i was getting on my email
that were really annoying
i just killed them one after another and
after that and then after i finished
that
i went through the sweater
uh in my closet all the sweaters in my
closet
and i threw out some i gave some away
and i it sounds like meth
behavior this is what i hear i have a
friend of mine
i don't know date a girl was on meth and
she always would clean
she'll come home and organize and clean
things he's like so
if your girl starts cleaning incessantly
she might be on amazon
yeah i was really compulsive uh and very
productive
and and i said to my did you keep
drinking it throughout the day
well this is no but i was tempted to
so i said to myself how can i hold on to
this power that this drug has because if
i start using it every day i'm going to
lose it i'm just going to be another
caffeine you know addict and um and i
came up with this idea only do it on
saturdays
once a week and i did that for a while
so that very day after cleaning out my
closet i worked in the garden
and and there were some plants that
needed replacement
and uh so i started driving down to this
garden center called um
flower land and um and i realized why
did i pick that flower why did i pick
that nursery and say oh they have this
airstream
where they sell espresso drinks right
out in front it was like
it was the voice of the addict putting
me in position to get another cup
the same day and and so i resisted that
and i did this saturday thing for a
while and it worked pretty well i really
look forward to saturdays and i got
i got a lot done um on saturday on
saturday
[Laughter]
but i wasn't addicted anymore so i could
get hard
but then gradually it was like um you
know it's thursday and i got a deadline
and this would really help me get over
the deadline
so so i started making exceptions it was
complete addict thinking right did you
try any other forms of caffeine
um i would yeah i would i would do green
tea
as i'm drinking now as a kind of green
tea is a very good
um source of caffeine because it's
really even there's another alkaloid in
it that stretches out the effect
so you don't get a jolt but it kind of
keeps you nicely titrated what is the
caffeine content of green tea
the average cup it's probably a third of
what you get in a cup of coffee
um it varies amazingly like if the if
the
tips were uh plucked you know when
they're brand new you know
first flush green tea that has a lot
more caffeine and it's a lot more
valuable
so there's a lot of variables that go
into it the plant is producing caffeine
of course as a pesticide
right and that was a whole question i
looked at it's like
why do plants produce these things that
have these effects on our minds
how did that isn't that amazing that a
plant could devise a chemical
that can unlock a receptor in your brain
that's astonishing
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