These Countries Won't Let You Go*

Summary

This transcript discusses the complex process and reasons behind renouncing one's citizenship. It examines the requirements, fees, and hurdles involved, comparing the relatively easy process in Tonga to the expensive and bureaucratic procedure in the US. The transcript also analyzes why some countries make renouncing citizenship impossible, like Argentina, while others can revoke it unilaterally, like Malawi.

Takeaways

• Citizenship renunciation is usually conditioned on having another citizenship first to avoid statelessness.
• Tonga has an automatic citizenship renunciation upon acquiring another nationality.
• The US has a high $2350 fee to renounce citizenship and requires tax filing for 5 years.
• Iran has many restrictions like mandatory military service before allowing renunciation.
• Argentina and some other countries make renouncing citizenship impossible.
• Malawi can unilaterally revoke citizenships of dual nationals.

Q & A

What is the difference between nationality, ethnicity, and citizenship?

Ethnicity refers to cultural identity, while citizenship is a legal status conferred by a state. Nationality lies between the two.

Why does the US have both relinquishing and renouncing processes?

Relinquishing involves performing acts like serving in an enemy military to lose citizenship, while renouncing is directly declaring the intention.

What is the expatriation tax in the US?

It is a capital gains tax levied on those renouncing citizenship who meet income or net worth thresholds.

How can Iran prevent people from renouncing citizenship?

Iran requires military service completion, giving up property, and permission from the Council of Ministers to allow renunciation.

Why does Argentina not permit renouncing citizenship?

Argentina believes the state should not deprive people of citizenship, so renunciation is impossible.

What problems can retaining unwanted citizenship cause?

It can lead to prosecution for not fulfilling duties in the country, rejection for new citizenships, or loss of residency rights.

What is citizenship zero?

It is a proposed status that retains citizenship technically but removes all associated rights and duties.

How does Malawi's unilateral revocation violate rights?

Revoking citizenship removes rights like voting and residence, without judicial checks.

Why should countries allow citizenship renunciation?

When connection to a country no longer exists, forced retention violates voluntary association and can cause major problems.

What are some key takeaways on renouncing citizenship?

Requirements vary hugely between countries. Retaining unwanted citizenship against someone's will causes issues. Renunciation should be a voluntary choice.

Outlines

00:00

Citizenship Renunciation Basics

This paragraph explains key concepts like ethnicity, nationality and citizenship. It notes that citizenship is formal and granted by states, unlike ethnicity. It also clarifies that nationality lies between ethnicity and citizenship. The process of citizenship change involves acquiring a new one and dropping the old.

05:04

Citizenship Renunciation Requirements

This paragraph details requirements and process for citizenship renunciation in different countries. Easy renunciation is possible in Tonga by simply presenting a foreign passport. Strict rules apply in Austria - one must have another citizenship and fulfill service duties. The US has relinquishing and renouncing options but requires fees. Iran has age limits and other difficult conditions. Renunciation is impossible in Argentina.

10:09

Reasons Countries Deny Citizenship Renunciation

This paragraph analyzes why some countries deny or restrict citizenship renunciation. Main reasons are to retain diplomatic power over citizens abroad and emotional attachment to nationhood. But forced retention of citizenship against one's will can cause major problems related to rights, duties and new citizenship acquisition.

Keywords

💡citizenship

Citizenship refers to the legal relationship between an individual and a state, with associated rights and duties. It is a key theme throughout the video, which examines the process of renouncing one's citizenship in different countries. The video contrasts citizenship with related concepts like ethnicity and nationality.

💡renunciation

Renunciation refers to the process of voluntarily giving up one's citizenship. The video explores the bureaucratic and legal hurdles involved in citizenship renunciation across different countries.

💡relinquishing

Relinquishing is one way of losing US citizenship, done by performing certain acts like acquiring another nationality. It requires proving the intention to give up citizenship.

💡dual citizenship

Dual citizenship refers to holding citizenship of two countries. Some countries like Tonga ban it outright, while others permit it conditionally. The video examines its implications for renunciation processes.

💡stateless

Stateless means lacking valid citizenship and its associated rights. The video warns against renouncing citizenship without having acquired another one, as it can render one stateless.

💡taxation

Some countries like the US tax citizens abroad. The video highlights the complex tax implications involved in renouncing US citizenship.

💡fees

Many countries charge fees for applying for citizenship renunciation, with the US having the highest fee at $2350. The video compares renunciation fees globally.

💡compulsory voting

Countries like Argentina have compulsory voting for citizens, which is a reason they forbid renunciation and make citizenship inextricable.

💡military service

Completing military service is a precondition for renunciation in some countries like Austria and Iran, especially for men of service age.

💡permission

In countries like Iran, renunciation requires explicit permission from state authorities, which can deny it without justification.

Highlights

Citizenship means: There's a people, and through language, descent, culture, personal preference, you're a part of it.

"Nationality" is imprecise, so let's just use "citizenship", so we're all on the same page.

Tonga does not have a legal process for renouncing your citizenship, but they do have an absolute ban on dual citizenship without exceptions.

Such an auto-renunciation, though usually not as strict, can be found in lots of countries without fully accepted dual citizenship.

Because of that intention requirement, it makes much more sense to not relinquish, but renounce your citizenship.

In the US, no matter if you're relinquishing or renouncing, you must pay a fee of 2350 dollars.

Taxes and citizenship: US expats still have to submit a US tax return every year.

If you renounce and are of considerable means you also get to - as a parting gift - pay capital gains tax on all your assets.

In Iran you have to be 25 to even be able to renounce citizenship.

The Iranian council of ministers can, without stating any reason and without any legal recourse, just say no to a renunciation request.

With every citizenship come rights and duties. The rights, you usually experience much more, but duties of allegiance, military service, jury functions, and voting are also in force.

Citizenship means that a country has diplomatic power over your affairs.

Short and bad reason to deny renunciation: We have invested in you, so you stay with us.

In Argentina you simply cannot renounce your citizenship at all, in no single case, without exception, never ever.

No matter how you turn it, when a country forces you to keep your citizenship, that's a big problem.

Transcripts

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How do you get rid of your citizenship?  Bit of a weird question, I know. Usually,  

it's all about how to get citizenship; which  conditions to meet, which hoops to jump through. 

Acquiring citizenship is hard. But it  can be just as hard to get rid of it.  

We're talking requirements, fees, bureaucratic  hurdles and so on. And even if you're  

doing everything to the letter, it's still  possible your country just won't let you go. 

Ideally, citizenship renunciation goes like  so: You go take all necessary documents to  

a government office, say you'd like to renounce  your citizenship, human behind desk says okay,  

gives you a piece of paper confirming said  renunciation and you're done. Ideally. 

In reality, every country can design this  process as it wants, though. There is the  

Universal Declaration of Human Rights, saying that  everyone has a right to change their nationality,  

meaning citizenship, but it's not quite that easy.  In practice, you don't *change* your citizenship,  

but acquire one, and, shortly before or after  that, drop the other one. So, you can't just  

show up and ask a civil servant to swap your  French citizenship for a Micronesian one.  

Citizenship switching service would  be pretty nice, doesn't exist, though. 

But before we go deeper into the renunciation  jungle, a quick word about ethnicity,  

nationality, and citizenship. Ethnicity  means: There's a people, and through language,  

descent, culture, personal preference,  and so on, you're a part of it. No  

written confirmation or documentation needed. Citizenship, on the other hand, is only given  

out by states, and confirmed in official records  and documents. In a nation state, most citizens  

have the same ethnicity; for example, Austrian  citizens also being part of the Austrian people.  

Doesn't have to be that way, though. You can  just as well be an Austrian citizen of Croatian,  

Catalonian, or Kurdish ethnicity. Nationality lies somewhere between  

ethnicity and citizenship, because it's  sometimes used synonymously with the one,  

then the other, and sometimes  as a kind of citizenship light,  

with only part of the rights and duties of full  citizenship. US Nationals, for example, when they  

are not also US citizens, can vote in local, but  not state or federal elections. The point being:  

"Nationality" is really imprecise, so let's just  use "citizenship", so we're all on the same page.

Now we know what citizenship  means, but how do we get rid of it? 

As easy as possible is the process in  Tonga. Only one condition required.  

You need a foreign citizenship. As soon as  you do, you can waltz right in, present your  

foreign passport and you're already ...

Tonga does not have a legal process for  renouncing your citizenship,

but they do have an absolute ban on dual citizenship without exceptions.

Acquiring any other citizenship  immediately invalidates your Tongan one.  

Such an auto-renunciation,  though usually not as strict,  

can be found in lots of countries without  fully accepted dual citizenship, like Austria. 

If you have Austrian citizenship, but  get any other, you lose it automatically,  

just like in Tonga. But what's different, is  that in Austria, exceptions for dual citizenship  

can be made, for example for children with  only one parent with Austrian citizenship,  

or when it's approved because of personal or  family circumstances. But since you can't use  

that mighty auto-renunciation move anymore,  except if you get a third citizenship, there  

needs to be a separate way to get rid of it. And  for that, you do have to tick a few more boxes.  

Beside having another citizenship, you also need  to have completed the military or civil service,  

if a man between 16 and 36, and can't have  committed any crimes punishable by more than  

six months. Except if you've been living out  of country for more than five years at a time.  

Then, those two conditions fall through.  Finally, you pay 50 to 100 Euros in fees and  

your renunciation's all done. If you're now asking: 

then I say: 1, that's a highly idiotic thing  to do, and 2, no, you need to have another  

citizenship always. Otherwise, you'd be stateless,  meaning: no valid passport and no diplomatic  

protection. In short: Very bad. That's why you  need one to lose the other. Safety glass over  

the self-destruct button, if you will. A great  many countries have those, but not all. The US,  

for example, does not "force" you to get a new  citizenship before dropping theirs. They point out  

what a grandly stupid idea it would be to press  the button, but if you really really want to ...

Instead, they have all kinds of other  requirements, though. It's not enough to just  

get another citizenship and you're done. There  are two ways of getting rid of US citizenship:  

Relinquishing and renouncing. It is not, but good question. 

Relinquishing works by acquiring another  citizenship, pledging allegiance to another  

country, or crazy things like serving in  an enemy military, or treason. But for the  

relinquishment to be valid, you have to do it  with the intention of losing citizenship. If  

you're doing one of those things without wanting  to give it up, your citizenship stays right as  

it were. And that intention you gotta prove.  So you file a request, everything is checked,  

and if they believe you, you're rid of your  citizenship. If not, all stays the same. 

Because of that, it makes much  more sense to not relinquish,  

but renounce your citizenship. For that, you  officially declare your intention to do so,  

make an appointment for it, all documents  are checked, and if everything's fine,  

you personally declare your renunciation,  and get a piece of paper confirming it. 

The thing that's making that process a smidgen  harder than in Austria, is that, in the USA,  

no matter if you're relinquishing or renouncing,  whether your application goes through or not,  

you must pay a fee of 2350 dollars American.  That's the highest renunciation fee in the world.  

Next highest are Jamaica, 1010$,  Egypt, 800$, and Sierra Leone, 663$. 

But whatever's the reason you're trying to  drop your citizenship, one word of warning:  

It won't help you get out of criminal prosecution,  military duty, or tax debt. If you forget paying  

your taxes for a few years and then try jumping  ship to save yourself ... not the best idea. 

And taxes, in the US, quite a topic in  itself. Because they, together with Myanmar,  

Hungary, and Eritrea, form the small group  of countries taxing people by citizenship,  

no matter where they live or work. Thanks to a  bunch of bilateral agreements, double taxation  

is often prevented, but US expats still  have to submit a US tax return every year. 

What's that got to do with citizenship  renunciation? The following: If you renounce your  

citizenship and are of considerable means - over  2 millions in total capital or an average of 100  

000 in annual income tax - you also get to - as  a parting gift - pay capital gains tax on all  

your assets. So when you're renouncing -  doesn't matter if you reach that amount or  

not - you must have filed tax returns for the  last five years and a separate expatriation tax  

document. If you have not, you get a notice  and a penalty of 10 000$ on top of that.

In the US, renunciation is possible, but  complicated and expensive. But it gets even  

better in Iran. That starts with the fact that  you have to be 25 to even be able to renounce.  

In most countries, you simply have to reach the  age of majority, that's 18 in Iran. Still, you can  

only renounce at 25. Second, you must have already  completed the compulsory 18 to 24 months of  

military service if a man of military age. Third,  you have to give up all real estate in Iran and  

entitlements to such. If you own a beet field in  Iran, you won't get rid of that citizenship. All  

of that is already pretty annoying, but then you  have to also, four, ask the council of ministers  

for permission to renounce. And ... who knows how  interested the Iranian council of ministers is  

in the renunciation wishes of its subjects. In  any case, the council can, without stating any  

reason and without any form of legal recourse,  just say no. That's bad luck for you, then. 

says the Iranian embassy in the Netherlands.  Well, if they state it like that, it must be true. 

The cherry on top is: If you, despite the  unlikelihood of a permission to renounce,  

try to get that whole process into motion  by downloading the renunciation form,  

the "404 - not found" on the Iranian ministry of  foreign affairs website will have you reconsider.

Here's the question, though: Why would a country  not permit its citizens to renounce? What's the  

use in forcing citizenship on people? Well,  with every citizenship come rights and duties.  

The rights, you usually experience much more,  but duties of allegiance, military service,  

jury functions, and voting are, depending on  the country, in force also. But most of all,  

citizenship means that a country has  diplomatic power over your affairs. 

Let's say you have citizenships of countries A  and B. The B one, you've been wanting to drop  

for years, but they won't let you. If you're  now imprisoned in country B for ... espionage,  

let's say, diplomats from A don't  have a great argument against that,  

because B maintains you are their citizen,  so they're responsible for you. A can of  

course try whatever they want, but  as long as you're a citizen of B,  

it's hard to argue it's not their call. Then, there's one more, less practical,  

but highly emotional reason to  deny renunciation: Short and bad:

We have had: Automatic renunciation,  

renunciation under conditions with low  and high fees, and theoretically possible,  

but practically impossible renunciation. But,  I've got one more. Namely, countries where you  

can simply not renounce your citizenship at  all. Not hard to do, not unlikely, but simply  

impossible. That's how it is in Argentina. If  you've had Argentine citizenship since birth,  

like the ultimate gum on your shoe, you cannot,  in no single case, without exception, without  

any loopholes, never ever get rid of it. The  reason for that is ... pretty weak on its legs:  

The state must not deprive its subjects of  their citizenship, so losing citizenship is  

made impossible in general. Even if you ask for  it, no chance. It gets especially interesting when  

you're obligated to give up your old citizenship  to acquire a new one. In that case ... you still  

can't, but at least they hand you a document  assuring everyone that renunciation is, for realz,  

never a possibility. Whether the other country  accepts that is another question altogether. 

One possible solution would be a kind  of citizenship zero, which lets you stay  

Argentine on paper, but frees you from  all citizenship-related rights and duties.  

But that also is not possible, because Argentina  has not just the most clingy citizenship there is,  

but also mandatory voting. And since citizens  have to vote, a zero version would break the  

law once again. So, no matter what, Argentina's  citizenship and all the things that come with it  

stick with you forever. But to be fair,  Argentina isn't alone in that. Costa Rica,  

Uruguay, Libya, and a few other countries  also have no possibility of renunciation.

The reason Argentina and others are so darn  scared of citizenships being revoked that  

they make even renouncing them impossible, can  be seen in Malawi, where the minister in charge  

can take away people's citizenships on  a whim. They don't need a reason for it,  

and you can't fight the decision in court. And  revoking someone's citizenship, obviously a pretty  

big deal, as rights to residence, voting, and so  on are tied to it. In Malawi, one cannot become  

stateless by losing their citizenship, so it only  applies to dual citizens, but still not cool.

No matter how you turn it, when a country  forces you to keep your citizenship,  

that's a big problem. Citizenship should  reflect a certain connection to a country;  

ideally a voluntary one. If that connection isn't  there anymore, why should you be obligated to keep  

your citizenship? And it's not like it's  just on paper. Retained citizenships can  

cause major problems. You go on holiday  to the old homeland to visit the family,  

but because you've not completed military  service, you're jailed for desertion. 

It gets even more pressing when you're  in line to acquire another citizenship,  

but are rejected because you cannot renounce your  old one. That way, a foreign country indirectly  

denies you citizenship with all rights and duties  in your new home country. If you've built yourself  

a life in a place, you live and work there,  but the old country forces you and possibly  

even your children to keep its citizenship,  that's no less than arbitrary state despotism.