Is 128GB of DDR5 IMPOSSIBLE on AM5? Level1 Investigates!
Summary
TLDRThis video script explores the challenges and experiences of configuring 128 gigabytes of DDR5 memory on the AM5 platform, using G.Skill Trident Z Neo F5 6000J 32GB modules. It discusses the technical difficulties of utilizing two DIMMs per channel and dual-rank memory, the importance of precise memory insertion, and the impact on system stability and performance. The script also compares AM5's memory capabilities with Intel's Z790 platform and advises sticking to 64 gigabytes for optimal results.
Takeaways
- 😀 The AM5 platform and DDR5 memory require careful handling due to the smaller and more delicate memory slots compared to older designs.
- 🔧 AM5 motherboards have different memory slot designs, with some having mechanical reinforcements and others being more plastic-based, affecting the slot's durability.
- 🚀 Achieving 128GB of memory on the AM5 platform with low latency and high speed is challenging, especially with the Trident Z Neo F5 6000J 3040 G32 kit.
- 🛠️ DDR5 memory installation on AM5 platforms can be more resistive, requiring a firm push and manual dexterity to ensure proper seating of the DIMMs.
- 🔌 The two DIMMs per channel configuration on AM5 can create electrical and logistical issues for the integrated memory controller in the CPU.
- 📉 Using 128GB of memory on the AM5 platform may result in reduced memory bandwidth and higher latency compared to using 64GB.
- 🧩 The AM5 platform is more sensitive to mixing different memory kits, and using identical kits is recommended for better stability.
- 🔄 BIOS updates have improved memory support on AM5 platforms, but there's still room for further optimization, especially for configurations beyond DDR5 3600.
- 📊 Memory bandwidth and latency testing on AM5 showed unexpected results, with two DIMMs sometimes outperforming four DIMMs in certain scenarios.
- 💻 For users seeking the best memory performance and stability, it's currently recommended to stick with 64GB of memory instead of pushing for 128GB on AM5.
- 🔍 A comparison with Intel's DDR5 on the Z790 platform shows that Intel's memory controller offers slightly better performance and stability.
Q & A
What is the recommended memory kit for 128 gigabytes on the AM5 platform?
-The recommended memory kit for 128 gigabytes on the AM5 platform is the Trident Z Neo F5-6000J-32GX2-TZ5NR from G.Skill, which consists of two 32-gigabyte sticks of DDR5 memory.
What are the differences in memory slot design between older and AM5 platforms?
-Older memory slots had pins that went all the way through the printed circuit board, providing mechanical strength. AM5 slots, however, have much smaller surface mount pins, connected only to the top layer of copper, requiring more careful insertion.
How does the AM5 platform handle two DIMMs per memory channel compared to previous platforms?
-The AM5 platform seems to handle two DIMMs per memory channel with more difficulty than previous platforms, creating more electrical and logistical problems for the integrated memory controller.
What is a dual-rank DIMM and how does it affect memory controller operations?
-A dual-rank DIMM has two ranks of memory, such as 16 gigabytes each on a single stick for a total of 32 gigabytes. The memory controller addresses two physical sticks almost the same way as it addresses two ranks on a single stick, which can be more challenging for the controller to manage.
What is the issue with running 128 gigabytes of memory on the AM5 platform according to the script?
-Running 128 gigabytes of memory on the AM5 platform can lead to lower memory bandwidth and higher latency compared to using 64 gigabytes, and it may introduce instability if not set up perfectly.
What is the recommended memory configuration for gaming and achieving the lowest latency and highest bandwidth?
-For gaming and to achieve the lowest latency and highest bandwidth, it is recommended to stick with 64 gigabytes of memory rather than going for 128 gigabytes.
What is the significance of the memory bandwidth and latency figures mentioned in the script?
-The memory bandwidth and latency figures are significant as they indicate the performance of the memory configuration. Higher bandwidth and lower latency are desirable for better system performance, especially in tasks that require fast memory access.
What is the role of the iGPU in the memory stability on the AM5 platform?
-Disabling the iGPU on the AM5 platform seems to allow for better driving of four sticks of memory at a higher rate, suggesting that the iGPU might introduce some instability or competition for memory resources.
What BIOS features were found to be helpful during memory testing on the AM5 platform?
-MSI's Memory Triad feature, ASRock and Gigabyte's CMOS clearing facilities, and Asus's BIOS presets for different non-XMP kits of memory were found to be helpful during memory testing on the AM5 platform.
How does the AM5 platform compare to Intel's DDR5 platform in terms of memory performance?
-While DDR5 on Intel's Z690 and Z790 platform is slightly better in terms of memory performance, the AM5 platform still shows promise, but it has some challenges, especially when running configurations beyond DDR5 3600.
What was the outcome of the long-term testing with 64 gigabytes and 128 gigabytes of DDR5 memory on the AM5 platform?
-The long-term testing showed that both 64 gigabytes and 128 gigabytes of DDR5 memory were stable at 3600 on the AM5 platform, with 64 gigabytes being rock solid stable.
Outlines
😲 Challenges of 128GB DDR5 Memory on AM5 Platform
The script discusses the difficulties of implementing 128GB of DDR5 memory on the AM5 platform, specifically with the Trident Z Neo F5 6000J 3040 G32 GX2-TZ5NR G.Skill memory kit. It highlights the technical challenges of the AM5 memory controller handling two DIMMs per channel and the intricacies of inserting DDR5 memory into the new slots, which lack the mechanical strength of older designs. The narrator shares personal experiences and insights on the process, emphasizing the need for careful handling and the potential for instability when pushing the memory beyond its limits.
🤔 Memory Stability and Performance on AM5 vs. Intel Platforms
This paragraph delves into the memory stability and performance testing on the AM5 platform, comparing it with Intel's offerings. The narrator mentions various memory kits from brands like Corsair, Team Group, and Kingston, and discusses the limitations of running DDR5 6000 on AM5 motherboards. It points out that while all tested motherboards could handle 128GB of memory, achieving DDR5 6000 speeds was not consistent across the board. The script also touches on the differences in memory performance between AM5 and Intel's Z790 platform, noting that Intel's platform shows slightly better memory bandwidth and latency, especially at higher speeds.
🛠️ Practical Advice for DDR5 Memory Configurations
The script provides practical advice for configuring DDR5 memory, especially for those looking to maximize performance with 64GB or 128GB setups. It suggests that for gaming and applications requiring the lowest latency and highest bandwidth, sticking with 64GB of memory is recommended due to the instability and reduced performance observed with 128GB configurations on the AM5 platform. The narrator also discusses the importance of using the same memory kit for both DIMM slots to ensure stability and the utility of features like MSI's Memory Triad for testing different configurations.
🔬 Long-Term Stability Testing and Conclusions
In the final paragraph, the narrator shares the results of long-term stability testing for both 64GB and 128GB DDR5 memory configurations on the AM5 platform. It concludes that while 64GB configurations were stable at DDR5 6000 speeds, 128GB configurations were only stable at the default DDR5 3600 speeds. The script ends with an invitation for further discussion and exploration of memory options on the AM5 platform in the Level One forums, acknowledging that while 128GB of memory is achievable, it may not be the best choice for those seeking optimal performance and stability.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡DDR5 Memory
💡AM5 Platform
💡Memory Controller
💡DIMM Slots
💡Ranks
💡Memory Bandwidth
💡Memory Latency
💡XMP (Extreme Memory Profile)
💡IGP (Integrated Graphics Processor)
💡CMOS Clearing
💡Memory Stability
Highlights
The AM5 platform and DDR5 memory require careful handling due to the smaller and surface-mount pins of the DIMM slots, which lack the mechanical strength of previous designs.
ASRock provides mechanical supports for DIMM slots, while the Aorus side has different construction possibly affecting memory slot stability.
DDR5 memory slots are more resistive, requiring a firm push and manual dexterity to insert memory modules without damaging the slot.
Using two DIMMs per channel on AM5 presents electrical and logistical challenges for the integrated memory controller, especially with dual-rank DIMMs.
Achieving DDR5 6000 with low latency on AM5 is challenging, with the tested G.Skill Trident Z Neo F5-6000J 32GB kit being a good option.
The AM5 platform is sensitive to mixing different memory kits, with the recommendation to use identical kits for the best results.
MSI, ASRock, Asus, and Gigabyte motherboards from AM5 show similar capabilities in running 64GB to 128GB of memory, but DDR5 6000 is not consistently achievable.
BIOS updates have improved memory performance on AM5 but are not yet optimal for DDR5 6000 with four DIMMs.
Memory bandwidth and latency on AM5 with 128GB of DDR5 6000 are not as expected, with bandwidth dropping to 50GB/s and latency increasing.
Disabling the iGPU on AM5 may improve memory stability and performance with 128GB of DDR5 memory.
MSI's Memory Try-it feature, ASRock and Gigabyte's CMOS clearing, and Asus's BIOS presets are valuable for testing and configuring memory.
DDR5 on Intel's Z690 and Z790 platforms shows better performance and stability compared to AM5, even at DDR5 7000.
Long-term testing of 64GB DDR5 6000 on a 7950X CPU showed rock-solid stability, while 128GB at 3600 also proved stable.
The AM5 platform's memory performance raises questions about CPU limitations and the need for further investigation into memory compatibility.
For work and productivity use, 64GB of DDR5 memory is recommended over 128GB for better stability and performance on AM5.
The AM5 platform's memory controller may require optimization to handle the increased demands of 128GB DDR5 memory configurations.
Intel's 13900K CPU demonstrates superior memory bandwidth and latency compared to AM5, even with DDR4 configurations.
Transcripts
so you want to rock 128 gigabytes of
memory
in your new am5 platform well I've got
the best kit of memory to do that well
I've got the best kit of memory to do
that if you want to rock 64 gigabytes
928 gigabytes that is the Trident Z Neo
F5 6000j 3040 g32
gx2-tz5nr G skill we we got to really
work on these names like RGB ddr5
Neo V2 V3 something but these are two 32
gig sticks of memory it is the most
impossible task to ask the am5 memory
controller or at least in the 7950x or
the 7900x 128 gigs is a challenge on
this platform if you want to run the
memory really fast with low latency
let's talk about my experiences
[Music]
okay first up easy stuff out of the way
am5 even if you're an experienced
computer Builder am5 and ddr5 pretty
much necessitates that the dim slots are
a little bit different you see in the
olden days the memory slots had pins
that would solder all the way through
the printed circuit board and because
you had metal going through this you
know laminated copper and you know
pretty circuit board material it was
pretty mechanically strong that's not
the case anymore the pins are much much
smaller in their surface mount which
means that they're connected only to the
very top layer of copper there's really
not as much mechanical strength holding
the Dems in now ASRock for theirs I've
got some mechanical supports that go all
the way through the printed circuit
board you know at the bottom and top of
the slot as well as the Middle where the
divider is things are a little different
on the aorus side of things there's
holes for that there but I can't really
fill the pins go all the way through so
maybe things are a little different in
terms of how they're put together or
maybe it's a different brand of slot you
know this one is a is you know it's all
plastic there's not even any metal
reinforcement here so maybe that's the
difference and they were they were
trying to decide which one goes where so
you got to be careful when you're
inserting the memory
the thing is that it's a little more
resistive
meaning that when you put the dim in it
wants to fight you a little bit more and
as you're putting it in rocking it back
and forth if you don't have good manual
dexterity will be really hard on the
slot and could fatigue the plastic so
when you insert it you know in the olden
days you would push down and it might
click into place
but I found with modern ddr5 you have to
give it you have to sort of push down on
it and help it click into place if you
have a lot of experience building
computers can kind of Poison the Well a
little bit because you're used to when
you push the memory in the little tabs
snap into place automatically with a lot
of the motherboards that I've put memory
into that hasn't been the case it feels
a little different and it will click but
it doesn't click all the way into place
you see having two dimms per memory
channel two dpcs what that's called
creates a lot of electrical and
logistical problems for the integrated
memory controller the memory controller
in the CPU has a lot more to juggle
keeping up with two dimms on the same
set of wires that's what it means two
dimms per Channel a lot of those wires
are shared between those two slots and
so when the memory controller gives a
set of commands to one dim it can switch
to the other dim and ask it to do
something and then switch back to the
first stem and see if that operation has
completed or the memory timings will let
it estimate when that will be completed
and then it's able to connect to the
memory and actually transfer things over
to bus and blah blah blah the reality
though is that it seems like two dimms
per channel is a little bit more of a
challenge on am5 than it has been
historically not only that but there's
also this idea of ranks so this is a
dual rank dim meaning that there's two
ranks of 16 gigabytes of memory on the
single stick for a total of 32 gigabytes
and the way that the memory controller
addresses two physical sticks is pretty
much the same almost exactly the same as
the way the memory controller addresses
two ranks on a single stick of memory so
even though this is two dims per Channel
we have four ranks per channel that
we're dealing with and that's why on the
am5 platform it's a little sketchy I'm
telling you that because if you don't
have your memory inserted perfectly
absolutely perfectly it's not going to
work at all or your computer is going to
be stuck dealing with Shenanigans for a
long time so if you have problems try
reseeding your memory now in addition to
this G skill kit that I have
I've ordered a ton of other memory kits
Corsair Dominator Platinum 5200
gigabytes pretty good stuff when you're
going to rock 64 gigabytes and oh 5200
is too slow yeah if you're just gonna
rock two dims you could get away with 6
000 but 5200 is not bad team group and
get the t-force Delta RGB this is
running it at 6 000 of course I also
have several Trident Z kits that are not
Expo these are XMP ready
and also Kingston Fury and a couple
other kits a data is mixed in here so
there's a lot of different options am5
is currently because it's a new platform
I think uh even more temperamental about
mixing kits of memory even two different
uh g-skill Trident Z kits of memory I
definitely would not recommend that for
this video I'm getting 128 gigabytes
working I'm using two of the exact same
kit so it's the best possible scenario
their Expo kits best possible scenario
ddr5 6000 with not super insane timings
you know 30 40 96 1.4 volts
uh it's up the upper end of voltage for
ddr5 but okay we'll get it done it's
fine I've also got pretty good
representation of motherboards from MSI
ASRock Asus and gigabyte the good news
is from all of the testing that all of
these motherboards had pretty much the
same capabilities in terms of running
100 128 gigabytes of memory the bad news
is that you're not going to be running
ddr5 6000 in pretty much any scenario
with any of these boards even with a
perfectly matched kit of ddr5 memory
it's just not there yet this kit of
memory has been available at retail for
a little while now
I'm sort of hoping to bios updates would
improve what I had initially experienced
and it's gotten better don't get me
wrong but it's still not super amazing
the other bit of good news is that with
all of these motherboards just plugging
in the memory and turning it on the
system will post you will get to bios it
may be a little unsettling because it
does take north of 10 minutes for some
of these boards most of them I'd say the
average is about five but it does work
the bad news is that when it posts it's
running a ddr5 3600 now remember amd's
official supported memory table
starts and then backs off when you've
got two dimms per Channel and dual rank
it's the worst case scenario and things
improve you know when we're talking
about ryzen 5000 running four sticks of
memory on your ryzen 5000 platform was a
heck of a lot better than the 2000
series than the 1000 series from AMD the
1000 series really I think everybody can
agree was a little sketchy when it first
launched in terms of memory support you
really had to dial it in and get it just
right I think am5 is a little better
than that but it's still really new and
so if you're gonna run 128 gigabytes of
memory you're probably not going to get
the most memory bandwidth or the best
memory latency now this is a little
surprising because even on the am4
platform in the ryzen 2000 generation
you could at least get better memory
throughput because you have more dims to
keep busy the memory controller would do
a little bit better job keeping the
memory kits busy well with the two
of our ddr5 6000 kits running of course
a ddr5 6000 because it'll it'll run
that's actually pretty good dual rank on
two dim 64 gigabytes that's a lot more
stress on the controller the memory
controller than 32 gigabytes
ddr56000 worked fine on all of these
boards it worked well and we were
getting you know 70-ish gigabytes per
second in Ada 64 with a reasonable
memory latency when I switched to four
dimms and we you know we're running the
out of the box defaults with that the
memory latency was closer to 93
nanoseconds but our memory bandwidth was
only about 50 gigabytes per second
that's really odd and I did do some
tuning and experimentation and in one
not perfectly stable configuration I was
getting 91 gigabytes per second which is
the best score that I've ever seen on
any am5 platform it was also a little
bit of a wrinkle juggling the eye GPU so
you could actually detect visual
artifacting from the igpu when things
were not exactly perfectly stable now I
used Ada 64 MIM test86 to do memory
testing Ada 64 is pretty good if you're
in Windows and you want something to
test in Windows but if you have a lot of
instability Windows is going to itself
and then you're going to be reinstalling
Windows so maybe not the best way to
test system stability whereas you can
boot from a USB stick and run mem test
86 that is a great way to test and catch
instability as well the bottom line for
me though with our one 7950x test CPU
that we tested all of these in is that
if I disable the igpu I seem to be able
to drive four sticks of memory at a
higher rate a little bit better that
kind of makes sense and it kinda doesn't
now because I'm talking about 128
gigabytes on a 16 core platform I think
you're using that more for work than
play
so if we're in a situation where it's a
little bit more unstable with the igpu
and perhaps a little bit less unstable
without the igpu then I kind of don't
want to run it even with the igpu
disabled like I'm not saying that's a
concession I'm saying that there's
something weird going on with the
platform that probably needs to be
investigated or don't expect to really
be able to run things Beyond ddr5 3600
so what if you do want to push the
envelope and actually run faster than
ddr5 3600 because you know you'll boot
up with ddr5 4800 with just you know two
sticks of memory and then you can set
ddr5 6000 and everything's basically
pretty good right
ah it varied so 3 800 to 4200 was
possible with all of these boards but
again I don't know about the stability
like I wouldn't really recommend it
necessarily because if you're building a
system with 128 gigabytes of memory
stability if you want something for
gaming and you want the lowest possible
latency and the highest bandwidth and
everything else then I really really
recommend you stick with 64 gigabytes of
memory for now don't go for 128
gigabytes theoretically we may see ddr5
dimms that are 64 gigabytes each and
then this story may change but for now I
don't really recommend four dimms for
128 gigabytes can you infer that that
means that four dimms of 64 gigabytes is
also pretty bad
I would say technically no but as a
practical matter yes as a practical
matter yes because AMD literally tells
us that in their specifications for dims
or two dims per channel it's going to
run slower but also this is you know
pretty significant reduction in uh
available bandwidth I mean 50 gigabytes
per second with four dims versus 70
gigabytes per second with two dimms
that's really weird and I think merits
further investigation for memory
experimentation I do have to give a
shout out to MSI msi's memory Triad
feature was invaluable for this testing
it is by far the easiest thing to you
know try a different memory
configurations and see which one works
and see which one doesn't
um ASRock and gigabyte have a great
facility for clearing your CMOS at least
with these boards that works that works
pretty good Asus also has a feature in
their bios that lets you load presets
for different non-expo kits of memory
that's really nice that doesn't exactly
solve the problem that we have here but
that feature is pretty awesome
especially if you're going to run a
non-expo kit because it says here is how
we can deal with 2x 16 gigabytes of
hinix here's how we can deal with 2x 16
gigabytes of Samsung the problem is that
none of the presets deal with 4X 32
gigabytes of dimms 2x 32 gigabytes sure
4X 16 gigabytes sure
not Forex 32 gigabytes this is maybe a
little disappointing overall because
ddr5 on the z690 and z790 platform from
Intel is a little better now the
performance difference on am5 between
one dim and two dimms per Channel left
me scratching my head a little bit I I
thought this was better with ddr4 on you
know the am4 platform or even better on
the Intel platform so I decided to take
a look at z790 and our ASRock taichi
Carrera and also the MSI z7id Godlike
which have improved memory compatibility
now for ddr5 7000 the 13900k memory
controller can clear 106 gigabytes per
second in our Ada 64 memory Benchmark
and beat the am5 memory latency not so
surprised that it beats the memory
latency but I'm surprised the memory
bandwidth is so much higher but this is
two 32 gig dims so this is still single
dim per Channel when I went up to two
dimms per Channel it was pretty much the
same story as am5 intel was not really
significantly better just a little
better but not dramatically better I
don't get too far off track because a
lot of people on our Forum were curious
about the homogeneous 16 core platform
and so this is really a deeper dive on
the am5 side of things but I would be
remiss without taking a look at the
Intel side of things and also try this
on Intel for the four dimms of ddr4 also
128 gigabytes because I have a ddr4 3600
kit from oloy I've covered in the past I
remembered it being faster than it was
but it's still slower than a four dim
ddr5 configuration so there are benefits
for ddr5 so AMD has been accurate with
their specifications it's just that I've
noticed that some people in our forum
and everywhere else are gung-ho to get
128 gigabytes of memory working and you
can you totally can but if you want the
highest memory bandwidth and the lowest
possible latency doing that with 128
gigabytes of memory is enough of a
challenge and stability nightmare that I
don't know if I recommend that if you're
going to use your machine for getting
things done and work I think it's going
to introduce a little instability now
long-term testing where long term is
about four days of continuous operation
and memory stress testing 64 gigabytes
ddr5 6000 7950x Rock Solid stable
Kudos that's amazing 128 gigabytes also
stable at 3600. I'm wonderful this is
level one this has been a look at 128
gigabytes on the am5 platform it
certainly left me with some questions
that maybe are worth investigating join
me in the Forum if you want to explore
this because hey I know there's
customers out there that want 128
gigabytes of memory let's figure out
what your options are but like I say
good news is that the boards I don't
think are the limitation for am5 because
all of these could do 64 gigabytes of
ddr5 6000 as well as 128 gigabytes at
the post default but you know going
Beyond four thousand ah it gets a little
sketchy I think there's still more on
the CPU than the board but there was a
little bit of variation
I'm one of those level one I'm signing
out you can find me in the level one
forums
[Music]
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