Keith Rabois | Venture Capitalist and Co-Founder of Opendoor and OpenStore

Summary

Dieses Podcast-Transkript bietet einen Einblick in das Leben und die Karriere von Keith Rabois, einem erfolgreichen Unternehmer und Investor. Von seinem frühen Interesse an Sport und politischen Biografien bis hin zu seiner Karriere in der High-Tech-Industrie, einschließlich seiner Zeit bei PayPal und LinkedIn, teilt Rabois Einblicke in sein Denken und seine Visionen. Er diskutiert auch seine Rolle als Investor, seine Haltung gegenüber Umrisse und sein aktuelles Unternehmen, Open Store, das digitale Brands verbindet und unterstützt.

Takeaways

• 🛋️ 'Outer' ist Markenname für hochwertige Outdoor-Möbel, die für den Einsatz im Freien konzipiert sind und trotz Witterungsextremen wie Regen oder Sonne aussehen wie neu.
• 🎉 Der Podcast-Gast, Keith Rabois, ist ein leidenschaftlicher Leser und hat von jungen Jahren an enzyklopädische Wissen gesammelt, was sein Denken und Handeln prägt.
• 🏋️‍♂️ Keith legt großen Wert auf Fitness und organisiert seinen Tag um Schlaf und sportliche Aktivitäten, um den Tag erfolgreich zu beginnen.
• 👨‍💼 Keiths Karriere begann mit einem harvardischen Juraabschluss, einer Clerkship und einer Anwaltslaufbahn in einer renommierten Kanzlei.
• 💡 Seine Karriere wechselte Richtung, als er in die Tech-Branche wechselte, nachdem er von der Wall-Street-Firma in eine Tech-Startup-Umgebung überging.
• 🤝 Keith traf Peter Thiel an seiner ersten Tag an der Stanford University, was zu einer langjährigen Freundschaft und später zu beruflicher Zusammenarbeit führte.
• 🌐 Während der Tech-Bust 2000 wurde Keith in PayPal rekrutiert, was zu einem Wendepunkt in seiner Karriere und zu einem wichtigen Teil der sogenannten 'PayPal Mafia' wurde.
• 🏢 Keith war Teil von Unternehmen wie LinkedIn und Square, bevor er Open Door gründete, ein Unternehmen, das Liquidität für Immobilienbesitzer bietet.
• 🛍️ Open Store, Keiths neuestes Unterfangen, zielt darauf ab, Shopify-Marken zu kaufen und durch Synergien und Skaleneffekte zu einem Online-Department-Store zu verwandeln.
• 💡 Als Investor sucht Keith nach Gründern, die eine nicht-null-Chance haben, die Welt oder eine Industrie zu verändern oder umzuformen.
• 🚀 Keith betont die Wichtigkeit, kontinuierlich herausfordernde Projekte zu suchen, um persönliches Wachstum und Entwicklung zu fördern.

Q & A

Welche Marke von Outdoor-Möbeln wird in dem Podcast erwähnt?

Outer wird als Marke für Outdoor-Möbel wie Sofas und Esstische erwähnt, die für die Außennutzung konzipiert sind.

Was ist der Name des Podcast-Gastes, der in diesem Skript interviewt wird?

Der Name des Gastes ist Keith Rabois.

Wie oft pro Woche nimmt Keith Rabois an Berry-Klassen teil?

Keith Rabois nimmt durchschnittlich an 12 Berry-Klassen pro Woche teil.

Wie sieht Keith Rabois' tägliche Routine aus, um Erfolg im Leben zu haben?

Keith organisiert seinen Tag hauptsächlich um Schlaf aus, er möchte so nahe wie möglich 8 Stunden Schlaf haben. Er geht früh ins Bett und wacht früh auf, dann geht er sofort zu seiner ersten Workout-Session des Tages.

Welche Sportarten waren in Keith Rabois' Kindheit von Bedeutung?

In Keith Rabois' Kindheit spielten Fussball, Basketball, Baseball, Football und Tennis eine wichtige Rolle.

Was war das Lieblingshobby von Keith Rabois in seiner Jugend?

Keith Rabois war ein sehr gelehrter und gieriger Leser. Er las durch Zyklen der Enzyklopädie von Anfang bis Ende, als er jung war.

Welche berufliche Laufbahn plante Keith Rabois sich vor dem College?

Von der sechsten Klasse an wollte Keith Rabois Lawyer werden. Er konzentrierte sich darauf und optimierte seine extracurrikulären Aktivitäten, um in eine beeindruckende Law School aufzunehmen.

Wie lernte Keith Rabois Peter Thiel kennen und welche Rolle spielte dieser in seinem Leben?

Keith lernte Peter Thiel an seinem ersten Tag im Freshman Jahr an der Stanford University kennen. Später wurde Peter Thiel eine zentrale Figur in Keiths Karriere, als er ihm half, bei PayPal zu arbeiten.

Was war das Hauptproblem für Open Door, das Keith Rabois ins Leben rief?

Open Door hatte Schwierigkeiten, als die Zinssätze in einem kurzen Zeitraum erheblich stiegen. Dies beeinträchtigte die Kaufkraft von Häusern für neue Käufer und führte zu weniger Transaktionen.

Was ist das Geschäftsmodell von Open Store, das Keith Rabois gegründet hat?

Open Store ist ein Unternehmen, das Shopify-Marken kauft und verbindet, um Synergien und wirtschaftliche Skaleneffekte zu nutzen. Sie konzentriert sich auf die Verbesserung von Kosteneffizienz und den Erwerb neuer Kunden durch den Einsatz mehrereer Marketingkanäle.

Was ist Keith Rabois' Ansicht über den Wettbewerb in der Geschäftswelt?

Keith Rabois glaubt, dass erfolgreiche Unternehmen oder Gründer hauptsächlich durch die Qualität ihrer eigenen Ideen, das Denken und die schnelle Ausführung Erfolg haben oder scheitern, anstatt durch den Wettbewerb.

Outlines

00:00

🛋️ Willkommen beim Founder Hour Podcast

Die Einführung in die Episode des Founder Hour Podcasts, präsentiert von einem Sponsor, der Outdoor-Möbel von Outer lobt. Der Sprecher hat diese Möbel über ein Jahr lang getestet und sie sind trotz Witterungsextremen wie Regen und Sonne wie neu. Die Outdoor-Möbel von Outer sind für den Einsatz im Freien konzipiert, was durch ihre langlebige und nachhaltige Materialien und innovativen Lösungen, wie dem Outer Shell Cover, untermauert wird. Zudem wird ein exklusiver 10%iger Rabatt für die Zuhörer angekündigt, der für eine begrenzte Zeit verfügbar ist.

05:01

🌞 Leben in Miami und Fitness-Routinen

Der Sprecher diskutiert sein Leben in Miami, das er als Paradies beschreibt, und seine tägliche Routine, die um ausreichend Schlaf organisiert ist. Er betont die Wichtigkeit von einem erfolgreichen Tag zu beginnen, indem er früh aufsteht und an einem Berries-Klasse in Miami teilnimmt. Er teilt auch, dass er versucht, durchschnittlich 12 Berries-Kurse pro Woche zu absolvieren und kürzlich einen 4200er-Kurs abgeschlossen hat. Zudem wird diskutiert, wie er Zeit für zwei tägliche Workouts findet und wie er mit unerwarteten Herausforderungen umgeht, die im Laufe eines Start-up-Geschäfts auftreten können.

10:02

🏃‍♂️ Ein Leben langes Engagement für Fitness und Sport

Der Sprecher erinnert sich an seine frühe Leidenschaft für Fußball, Basketball und andere Sportarten. Er hatte auch eine große Leidenschaft für das Lesen und durchforschte Enzyklopädien. Seine Eltern unterstützten sein Verlangen nach Wissen, indem sie ihm erlaubten, so viele Bücher zu kaufen, wie er wollte. Diese Leidenschaft für Bücher hat sich in die Erstellung einer Bibliothek in Miami übertragen, die er als einzigartig beschreibt.

15:03

📚 Einflüsse der Familie und frühe Leidenschaften

Der Sprecher reflektiert über die Auswirkungen seiner Familie auf seine Leidenschaft für das Lesen und wie sie ihm erlaubten, unbegrenzt Bücher zu kaufen. Er erinnert sich an seine frühen Interessen, darunter die Liebe zu Sport, insbesondere Baseball, und seine Hingabe an das Lesen, was er von der fünften Klasse an als unersättlich beschreibt. Außerdem teilt er, dass eines seiner Kinder für sein Lesen in der Schule ausgezeichnet wurde, was ihn sehr stolz macht.

20:04

🤔 Überlegungen zum Studium und zukünftigen Beruf

Der Sprecher erzählt, dass er seit der sechsten Klasse darauf hindachte, Anwalt zu werden, und sich auf ein Studium der Rechtswissenschaften vorbereitete. Er war auch an Politik interessiert und beobachtete, wie Anwälte in die Politik einbezogen wurden. Er hatte die Ambition, eine Karriere in der Politik zu beginnen, entweder als Wahlkampfmanager oder als weißer Hauschef des Stabs, anstatt direkt für ein Amt zu kandidieren.

25:05

🤝 Die erste Begegnung mit Peter Thiel an der Stanford University

Der Sprecher erzählt die Geschichte seiner ersten Begegnung mit Peter Thiel an der Stanford University. Er traf Peter, als dieser die zweite Ausgabe der Stanford Review verteilte. Sie lernten sich kennen, als der Sprecher an einer Organisationstreffen der Stanford Review teilnahm, für die er schrieb. Später arbeiteten sie beide in derselben Anwaltskanzlei, und obwohl Peter die Kanzlei nach fünf Monaten verließ, blieb der Sprecher länger dort, was er als seine größte Charakterschwäche ansieht.

30:07

🏢 Erfahrungen als Anwalt und Wechsel in die Tech-Branche

Der Sprecher teilt seine Erfahrungen als Anwalt in einer renommierten Wall-Street-Anwaltskanzlei, wo er sich sowohl von den Aspekten der Arbeit als auch von der fehlenden Spezialisierung frustrierte. Er beschreibt, wie er und andere Anwälte, die in die Tech-Branche wechselten, mit der Pleite der Tech-Börse konfrontiert waren, als die Börsenkurse einbrachen. Er entschied sich jedoch, nicht zurück in die Anwaltschaft zu gehen, sondern in die Tech-Branche einzutauchen.

35:08

💡 Die Idee hinter Open Door und ihre Herausforderungen

Der Sprecher gründet Open Door, ein Unternehmen, das auf die Liquidität von Immobilien zutrifft. Er beschreibt die Idee dahinter, die er seit 2003 hat, und wie die Erfahrung, sein Zuhause innerhalb von 24 Stunden zu verkaufen, ihn inspirierte. Open Door bietet Bargeldangebote für Häuser an und hat in 50 bis 60 Märkten eine Marktpräsenz. Die Herausforderungen durch die COVID-19-Pandemie und die steigenden Zinssätze haben jedoch das Unternehmen getroffen, da die Transaktionen zurückgingen.

40:10

🛍️ Die Vision hinter Open Store und die Rolle von Shopify

Der Sprecher erklärt die Vision hinter Open Store, einem Unternehmen, das Shopify-Marken kauft und zusammenführt, um Synergien und Kosteneinsparungen zu erzielen. Er betont die Bedeutung der Einkaufserlebnisse und wie Open Store auf den Erfolg von Shopify aufbaut, indem es den Marken eine größere Reichweite und Effizienz gibt. Open Store zielt darauf ab, Liquidität für die Marken zu bieten und sie effizienter zu gestalten, was sowohl für die Verbraucher als auch für das Unternehmen von Vorteil ist.

45:11

🎧 Persönliches Engagement und Zukunftspläne

Der Sprecher teilt, dass er als leidenschaftlicher Leser immer nach neuen Herausforderungen sucht, um zu wachsen. Er reflektiert über seine früheren Karrierewechsel und wie er ständig neue Fähigkeiten erlernt, um sich weiterzuentwickeln. Er betont die Wichtigkeit, sich ständig zu verbessern und nicht in der Komfortzone zu verharren, um sowohl beruflich als auch persönlich erfolgreich zu sein.

50:14

🎶 Musik und die Zukunft von Open Store

Der Sprecher bekennt sich zu seiner Leidenschaft für die Musik und teilt, dass er einmal einen erfolgreichen DJ-Auftritt hatte. Er diskutiert auch die Zukunft von Open Store und wie es möglicherweise in den Retail-Bereich expandieren könnte. Er betont die Bedeutung, Talente zu entdecken und zu fördern, und wie er es sich zur Aufgabe macht, Menschen dabei zu helfen, ihre Ziele zu erreichen.

Keywords

💡Contrarianism

Contrarianism ist die Haltung, sich gegen den allgemeinen Konsens oder gegen die主流Meinung zu positionieren. Im Video wird dies als eine der zentralen Prinzipien des Gesprächspartners dargestellt, der sagt, dass er aufgrund der Ablehnung der modernen Welt in einigen Aspekten zu einer contrarianen Persönlichkeit geworden ist. Dies zeigt sich darin, wie er seine Prinzipien bewahrt, auch wenn sie in Zeiten des Umbruchs nicht mehr à la Mode sind.

💡First Mover Advantage

Der Begriff First Mover Advantage bezieht sich auf den Vorteil, den ein Unternehmen oder eine Person hat, wenn es als Erstes ein neues Produkt, eine neue Technologie oder einen neuen Marktsegment erschließt. Im Kontext des Videos wird dies als eine der Strategien diskutiert, die Unternehmerinnen und Unternehmer verfolgen können, um erfolgreich zu sein, und es wird betont, dass dies nur ein Teil des Prozesses ist, um ein Unternehmen erfolgreich zu führen.

💡E-Commerce

E-Commerce bezeichnet den Handel über das Internet, einschließlich des Verkaufs von Waren und Dienstleistungen online. Das Video thematisiert die Rolle von Shopify als Treiber des Wachstums im direkten Verbraucher-E-Commerce und wie das Unternehmen Open Store aufbauend auf dieser Plattform einen Online-Department Store schaffen möchte.

💡Venture Capital

Venture Capital bezieht sich auf das Kapital, das in jungen, wachstumsstarken Unternehmen investiert wird, die potenziellen hohen Gewinnen folgen, aber auch mit einem hohen Risiko verbunden sind. Im Video spricht der Gesprächsteilnehmer über seine Erfahrungen als Venture-Capital-Investor und wie er potenzielle Investitionen beurteilt.

💡Founder-Driven

Founder-Driven beschreibt eine Unternehmensphilosophie, bei der der oder die Gründer*in eine zentrale Rolle bei der Führung und der Entwicklung des Unternehmens spielt. Im Video betont der Gesprächsteilnehmer die Wichtigkeit, dass Gründer*innen, mit denen er zusammenarbeitet, einen signifikanten Einfluss auf die Richtung und die Strategie ihres Unternehmens haben.

💡Innovation

Innovation meint den Prozess der Schaffung neuer Ideen, Technologien oder Verfahren, die es ermöglichen, Probleme zu lösen oder Dienstleistungen oder Produkte zu verbessern. Das Video diskutiert die Rolle von Innovation in der Gründung und im Wachstum von Unternehmen und wie kontroverse Ansichten zu Innovationen, wie z.B. die des Gesprächspartners, die Diskussion anregen können.

💡Sleep

Im Video wird die Bedeutung des Schlafes für die Gesundheit, das Wohlbefinden und die Produktivität betont. Der Gesprächsteilnehmer vertritt die Ansicht, dass ausreichender Schlaf für eine bessere Lebensqualität wichtig ist, was er durch das Beispiel des Buches 'Why We Sleep' von Matthew Walker untermauert.

💡Fitness

Fitness bezieht sich auf die körperliche Verfassung und die allgemeine körperliche Fitness einer Person. Im Video wird die Rolle von Fitness im Leben des Gesprächspartners hervorgehoben, von seiner Kindheit über seine Zeit als Berufssportler bis hin zu seiner heutigen Beteiligung an Fitness-Klassen und dem Einfluss auf sein tägliches Leben.

💡Durability

Durability ist die Eigenschaft eines Produkts, langlebig und widerstandsfähig zu sein. Im Kontext des Videos wird dies in Bezug auf die von Outer hergestellte Outdoor-Möbel erwähnt, die trotz extremer Bedingungen wie Regen oder Sonne immer wie neu aussehen.

💡Sustainability

Nachhaltigkeit bezieht sich auf die Fähigkeit, Ressourcen verantwortungsvoll zu nutzen und ein Gleichgewicht zwischen ökologischen, ökonomischen und sozialen Belangen zu wahren. Im Video erwähnt der Gesprächsteilnehmer die nachhaltbaren Materialien, die von Outer für ihre outdoor Möbel verwendet werden, um die Langlebigkeit und Umweltverträglichkeit zu gewährleisten.

💡Entrepreneurship

Unternehmertum beschreibt das Aufstellen und Führen eines Unternehmens sowie das Einbringen von Innovationen in die Wirtschaft. Das Video spiegelt das Unternehmertum des Gesprächspartners wider, der seine Erfahrungen als Mitbegründer von Open Door und Open Store teilt und darüber wie er auf die Herausforderungen und Chancen des Marktes reagiert.

Highlights

Sponsor Outer's durable and sustainable outdoor furniture withstands weather conditions and maintains a new look.

Exclusive 10% discount for Founder Hour listeners on Outer's outdoor furniture range.

Guest Keith Boyer's daily routine revolves around sleep, work, and two-a-day Berry workouts.

Boyer's childhood passion for sports and voracious reading habit influenced his personal growth.

Boyer's parents encouraged his reading by providing an unlimited budget for books.

Boyer's admiration for Margaret Thatcher and her influence on his political and career aspirations.

Boyer's transition from prestigious law to the tech startup world during the dot-com boom and crash.

Meeting Peter Thiel at Stanford and the unexpected journey into business and politics.

Boyer's experience at PayPal during its financial crisis and turnaround.

Meritocratic culture and high-density talent at PayPal fostering innovation and success.

Boyer's contrarian views on various topics, including his belief in the importance of sleep.

Contrarianism as a result of the world diverging from Boyer's foundational principles.

Boyer's investment philosophy focusing on early-stage, bold, and impactful startups.

The concept of every great startup starting as a 'cult' with a unique view of the world.

Boyer's return to Khosla Ventures and the reasons behind his decision.

Attributes Boyer looks for in founders, emphasizing the need for a non-zero chance of transforming an industry.

The importance of challenging oneself and the concept of growth through facing difficulties.

Transcripts

welcome to the founder Hour podcast

before we get into the episode just a

quick word about our sponsor outer you

know I've raved about outer before and I

love my outer sofa outdoor dining table

and chairs I've had them for over a year

and let me tell you they've been through

everything from rainstorms to scorching

sun and still look brand new that's

because outer makes outdoor furniture

that's actually designed for the

outdoors from using incredibly durable

and sustainable materials to developing

innovative solutions like the outer

shell cover which protects my sofa and

dining table against d dust debris and

dirt no more soggy cushions or Dusty

tabletops my outer setup is always clean

dry and ready to be enjoyed anytime I

want head to live out.com thee founder

hour to see outer range of outdoor

furniture fire pits and accessories the

founder hour listeners get an exclusive

10% off for a limited time terms and

conditions apply so elevate your outdoor

space with outer that's live

out.com thee founder hour here we go

Keith boy welcome pleasure to be with

you likewise great to great to meet you

uh thanks for coming on the show how's

how's Miami life uh love Miami I feel

like I live in Paradise every day and I

go to work get my work done come back

back in Paradise wake up in the morning

rinse and repeat you you forgot to

mention berries you're wearing a berry

shirt and uh I I heard you're doing

almost two a days these days so how's

that going yeah I try to average 12

berries a week uh so pretty good I just

finished uh last week my 4200 class so

trying to get to 5,000 as soon as I can

that's incredible how do you find time

how do you what's your day look like

right now well I organize my day

primarily around sleep so I want as

close to 8 hour sleep as possible so I

typically go to bed fairly early wake up

um partie that and then as soon as I get

out of bed I do my first workout of the

day so usually I'm taking like a 710

a.m. berries class in Miami and um that

way I'm set for Success the second

workout it's more optional depends how

the day is going how many things I'm

juggling there's always unexpected uh

you know turmoil um startup roller

coaster ride uh so every day is a roller

coaster that's why I like to start with

a workout make sure that the fundamental

you know premise is set everything's

ready to go and then if it turns out

there's more time usually I'll weave one

in in the evening have you always been

into fitness or is this something that

came more so later in life different

kinds of Fitness so I played uh a lot of

soccer uh in some a fair amount of

basketball um and we use that as like

training for that as opposed to just

like aics or life extension you know

sort of different goals uh but I no

longer play very much soccer or

basketball so now it's mostly for either

health or

Aesthetics love it um you grew up uh in

Edison New Jersey I want to kind of take

it back uh a little bit and talk about

young Keith and what he was like you

mentioned being into soccer and

basketball um outside of that what did

you enjoy doing what was like your you

know passion I guess oh I Lov like

baseball and sports both playing foot

baseball football uh tennis it played

almost all sports American Sports and

then um with watch like I listen to like

140 Yankee games a year um was pretty

addicted to the Rangers Nicks um and

reading um so the other thing I was

addicted to is reading I read like in

cycle of the encyclopedia from cover to

cover when I was pretty young um I was

just happy to learn this morning I've uh

two kids one won an award at two years

old in his school for being The Bookworm

of the class and I was extremely proud

extremely excited uh because that's what

I basically did is read read read as was

an extremely voracious reader um maybe

as ear as I can remember but certainly

from fifth grade on yeah what did what

would what did your parents do like what

what kind of influence did they maybe

have on you at a young age well one of

the ways they actually impacted my

reading was you know we were kind of

typical middle class household and we

didn't have a lot of disposable income

and you had to be judicious about what

we invested and spent money on but they

gave me an unlimited budget for books so

as long as I read the books I could buy

as many as I wanted so what did I do I

substituted my shopping into books um

and read them and enjoyed them and you

know that compounds uh so I have a

library I I built when I moved to Miami

I built a custom Library which is

possibly the only authentic library in

Miami so you know I've kind of always

been addicted to reading and love to

read and you know try to inculcate the

habits and friends family everywhere I

can yeah do you remember some of your

other favorite books or topics at that

age well yeah so the first type of uh

genre that got me addicted was actually

what used to be called spy fiction so it

be about like cold war spies you know in

Berlin you know um a lot of uh sort of

Robert uh John

Laren Ken fallen and Robert llam and

people like that and and Tom Clancy a

little bit later just viciously read

their entire repertoire uh so that was

the first kind of genre that I was

passionate about um but I developed you

know reading skills uh through through

the exercise of reading their fiction um

I read non-fiction mostly biographies

and autobiographies uh was kind of my

go-to so I really enjoyed uh that and

was also very intrigued by history and

politics so those are the three areas it

was either an

autobiography politics SL history kind

of a fine line there and um and spy

fiction if you didn't live uh in this

era what other era would you want have

you know want to have lived in and who's

someone in throughout history that you

admire that you would have loved to meet

that you didn't get a chance to meet

well I briefly met her um not

unfortunately a one-1 situation but my

hero growing up was always Margaret

Thatcher and I did have the opportunity

once uh to see her speak um in an

auditorium of about 100 200 people uh

but uh I read consumed everything about

her her biography her

autobiographies three volumes as well as

many other biographies about her so she

was who have always wanted to emulate

and

obviously was too young realistically as

I was growing up to really spend any

quality time with her but you know I

wish I I wish I was maybe a decade older

and had opportunity yeah that's great um

so I presumably you were a good student

you ended up going to Stanford uh

studying polyi what did what did you

kind of want to be before you even got

to college at at a young age because I

know you eventually went um to law

school um and got your law degree but

like did you want to be something else

and then eventually switch paths to law

once you decided maybe this is a

lucrative career or was that something

that was always kind of in the cards for

you that you know I want to grow up be a

lawyer and do this

from the time I was in sixth grade on I

wanted to be a lawyer I I was focused

from then on and how do I be a lawyer

you know like political science classic

pre law sort of curriculum um I

optimized you know s of my

extracurricular activities around you

know getting into an impressive law

school but I I knew I was attracted to

law which also had a blend into politics

So Pro my reading habits you know I've

been intrigued by Pol I was interested

in politics at least since I was in

sixth grade as well and so paid

attention to politics readit viciously

about politics and obviously there's a

long history of American lawyers going

in and out of politics and being

effective and appointed to interesting

jobs roles so I thought that was the

trajectory I was aiming for for you know

pretty much up to the age of 30 wow so

you you thought you might eventually

become like a congressman or or Senator

or run for president not necessarily

directly run for office my goal was you

either be a campaign manager along the

lines of like Jim Baker

um who's a lawyer and then moved into

politics successfully or you know

eventually be like a white house chief

of staff or somebody like that those

there kind of the trajectory I don't

think I ever really envisioned running

directly uh for office but I I

definitely wanted to use kind of play

the Washington lawyer role which there's

a long probably Century long history of

lawyers and DC going in and out of

government and interesting roles yeah so

when you're at Stanford uh you end up

meeting this gentleman named Peter teal

which I know eventually would come into

play in your career and and just life uh

what was that what was that kind of

encounter like you know initially and

and how did you kind of guys become

friends and and sort of

Click yeah so it's it's one of these

like stories that's even more amazing

Than Fiction um literally I met Peter on

the first day of my freshman year

Stanford and the way I met him was I was

sitting in my freshman dorm room and Lin

for this you know Stanford and my door

was open and Peter was running around

the halls delivering the second issue of

the Stanford review by hand and he

happened to throw this under our door

and I picked it up and I was a

conservative already self-identified and

there's this alternative conservative

publication so I happen say oh that's

cool that's interesting chatting with

him he invited me to some meeting you

know some organizational meeting and I

showed up and started writing for the

review and 30 years later I was still

stuck

theer did you feel like at the time that

he was going to be someone that would be

a lifelong friend and and someone that

you would work with eventually like did

you see that sort of spark in him I did

and I thought more in terms of Law and

politics never never never in any sense

I think about business for either myself

or for him but um I did think he would

you know do interesting things in law

politics he wanted to go to law school

Etc um but um he he mised ited one of my

pieces so I got very furious with him uh

so other than that little Saga um yes I

I I envisioned like we wound up going

down the same path he's a little older a

couple years older but he W up uh

clerking as did I and then he W up

working actually at the same Law Firm

the same quintessential Wall Street Law

Firm that I did although you know he was

preent enough to quit after five months

and four days and it took me three and a

half years to figure it out um but way

too long yeah still introduces that as

my biggest character flaw it took that

long to figure out the obvious yeah what

was what was that experience like for

you you know being a lawyer I can

imagine you probably enjoyed some parts

but maybe not others but like you know

what was that like and how were there

any skills that I guess you took away

from those few years that helped you be

a better uh executive entrepreneur

investor yep absolutely so um I actually

did enjoy practicing law or I wouldn't

have lasted you know three and a half

years years after clicking so four and a

half years as a lawyer obviously suggest

I had some energy and excitement around

it it was back in then and certainly my

firm was it was required there were two

flaws or things that were frustrating

one was you had to be a complete

generalist so we didn't allow

specialization so there were parts of

practicing law that I really enjoyed and

parts I really didn't want to do and we

fused them together and didn't allow

them to be disambiguated so I I think

that uh was draining and then

secondarily we weren't we were very

meritocratic but you moved within lock

step per year so you were second year

associate your whole identity was around

your second year associate then you were

a third year associate then a fourth

year associate a fifth year associate

and that was the only way you could

progress within the firm was by annual

by cohorts and so you wanted to be the

best within the cohort but it's still

take seven or eight years to sort of

become a partner uh regardless you know

pretty much independent of your ability

and so that wasn't that exciting to me

my corporate I was a litigator says on

the litigation side but my transactional

colleagues um who became frustrated that

tended to move into investment banking

so they started Sol cwell like I did but

they had more options and they felt that

the banking system like say Goldman

Sachs or something like that entity like

that was more Progressive in terms of

Merit and that there' be more um

separation in terms of career trajectory

and compensation so the V corporate

Associates would typically migrate into

Investment Banking as a litigator I

didn't have any of those options so if I

sort of forg my own path yeah and so you

ended up working in Tech startups right

around the do boom from what I

understand exactly yeah um unfor

unfortunately the boom crashed and

burned six weeks or so after I joined

the tech world uh so maybe I'm a bad

signal a couple different ways one is

the fact that tech companies were hiring

people like me who had no business

skills whatsoever I never built an Excel

spreadsheet in my life uh but the

companies there's so much money in being

invested in technology companies there's

so many startups uh all around like

Silicon Valley Boston New York Etc that

there was a fat basically a famine of

talented people so these new startups

were desperate for talented people so

they'd be willing to williz take a

chance on someone like me so I got

recruited into this startup by a friend

of a friend maybe a friend from Stanford

who had had really had a pretty good run

in the first generation internet bubble

was doing a second company and recruited

me um and I said yes and then six weeks

later the world blew up the world of

technology blew up we were literally in

a you know sort of famine um so I didn't

really know what I was getting myself

into um I don't think anybody did

actually but in March March 28th or so

2000 the market collapsed the Asda

collapse particularly and then six about

two months later in June like right

around June 16th or so 2000 the NASDAQ

collapsed again and then everybody

realized oh wow this is real the world's

this is a completely new world order so

anything you assumed about the future of

the internet is up for grabs again and

it took three to five years to kind of

wash through that um a kind of a talking

point I'll borrow from Peter teal is

actually if you looked at the height of

the NASDAQ just before the market

collapsed it at was around 5,000 or so

as an index and it took uh almost 15

years to you get back to that height so

this is this was like dropping a like

truly dropping like a nuclear bomb on

the technology sector right and I was

like six weeks in and not really didn't

really know how to do anything did you

think I'm gonna go back to law I'm done

with this no no I don't really think

that way and um I was like I first of

all if we in kind of a traditional uh

hierarchical kind of quintessential Wall

Street Law Firm you can't really just

jump in and out so easily um I don't

think my friends or family really

appreciated how much the risk I was

taking because they didn't really

understand it they're like oh you're

Harvard educated lawyer clicked on the

fifth circuit someone's going to want to

hire you but it doesn't quite work that

way at the highend of law firm and the

prestigious law firms so it wasn't so

easy but yes some people did U there

were a few other lawyers who migrated

from prestigious law firms into Tech and

some actually did rebound back and some

quite successfully but I I just decided

I wanted to double down actually the

advice I got that I would enjoy uh this

technology stuff in quotes uh was good

advice I was excited I was invigorated

so I just basically looked to the and

said okay we're gonna have to figure

this out somehow yeah so you eventually

ended up working at PayPal famously

which you know the famous PayPal Mafia

and all that uh had you kept uh in touch

with Peter throughout that time and and

how did you sort of end up there yeah so

it's actually an interesting story about

how I went up with PayPal and uh through

so as my first startup was getting

itself in trouble as the internet you

know Revolution was ending and we had to

evolve very rapidly and our 19-year-old

CEO not being decisive enough to S of

save the company I called up Peter and

basically was just asking for advice

because I knew he'd founded Paypal I

knew he' started to get like some

traction you know Etc from afar I was

like 3,000 miles away on the East Coast

but would read about PayPal hear about

PayPal occasionally bump into him or

David Sachs or you know people like that

that I do from college so I called the

Peter asking for advice like hey this

startup I don't think's going to make it

here's why blah blah blah what do you

think I should do and somewhat

unexpectedly said hey I this is

literally a Verbatim quote like 20x

years ago he said hey I could introduce

you to a lot of people Sil Valley but

you should just come work for us and

this is totally not expected I said well

what would you want me to do and so we

want having a conversation about what he

was unhappy with he about six weeks

earlier had been reading the reinstated

as interim interim CEO of PayPal so

after Elon had been deposed um the board

wasn't confident enough in Peter to give

him the real Co title to give inter Co

title anyway six weeks later this is

September 25th uh 2000 six weeks later I

had this conversation with him and he's

like you should just come work for us

here's the role here's what here's what

I want you to do I thought it was

actually pretty interesting I thought

the company was a mess and it was was

burning like when each took over is

burning like $10 million a month which

back then in 2000 is a lot of money and

the company Dire Straits but he turned

around the company really fast with the

help of people like David Sachs and Max

Leon and rolla um the company did really

um save itself uh very quickly but

anyway I didn't know that I just thought

there'd be like interesting smart people

there and at least the brand people

people heard of theand had heard of the

brand even though we were bleeding money

so I said yes um and moved pretty much

overnight from Washington DC to palala

slept on my friend who's a gsb's sofa

because I didn't have time to find a

place to live and the re reason I had to

do this so fast was Peter was like hey

here's the offer here's the terms here's

the

title and I was like great I'd like to

start in like you know two plus weeks

and he's like nope you got to start

Monday or deal's off I'm like oh wow so

I moved AC cross country I owned a home

had to sell it I'm out I out of

negotiating with Peter which turned into

okay I didn't start Monday I started

Tuesday morning at 10: a.m. in said of

Monday but that's why I was crossing

putting those uh lawyer negotiating uh

skills at work yeah my friend Eric saved

my career by giving me a

sofa you know I'm curious what it was

like being in the room with all these

guys you know clearly you mention

working around talented people some of

the most talented people probably ever

um you know have gone on to start you

know so many successful companies

whether it's Reed Hoffman stoppelman

Sachs like all those guys you know have

you like what was the environment like

being around and and have you seen that

again like any anywhere else so yeah

it's was very meritocratic it was the

density of talent was very Stark I mean

in that this is not just a Ben of

hindsight it was pretty Stark at the

time that wow these people are made

really smart and like a lot of really

smart talented people so the density of

talent I remember rolloff saying

something to me in January of

2001 he he said the average person here

is smarter than the average at either

Goldman or McKenzie places he had worked

um and I actually at first when we said

it I I was in disbelief honestly like

I'd only been there like two months so

but proved to be quite pressant and was

actually by far better than the average

person at Goldman or McKenzie but I

found that shocking at the moment um

what was he basing that off of Just well

he well no he' actually worked at those

places and he's like the median person

here just much better they're smarter

faster um so he was valid comparison and

but I didn't I had it worked to those

places and was just joining pball but

turned out he got that exactly right um

by probably an order magnitude um but in

any event um the the company moved fast

people worked really hard uh were very

passionate about succeeding um very

debate driven culture people who were

very smart put them in all pacher dish

um have very different IDE is under

pressure uh so you had to stand for

yourself you had to debate very

vigorously um and constantly uh for

priorization for tradeoffs um so it's

very very very vigorous debate by email

in person

constantly yeah so you also moved on and

and eventually worked at some other

successful companies like LinkedIn and

square uh how did you go about just

deciding where you worked what you

decided to spend your time doing who you

worked with like what was your sort of

measure you know honestly it wasn't so

intentional um LinkedIn kind of happened

because Reed was starting this cool idea

um there was a professional Network back

before people thought in these terms and

since I had actually probably the most

traditional sort of background of

anybody who worked at PayPal like

actually went to law school and had a

clerkship and worked at a prestigious

firm everybody else's PayPal was

basically a misfit and had have did not

have a traditional resume so LinkedIn

made so much more sense to me than

anybody else he was talking to because

everybody else he was talking to was

like a look Valley entrepreneur type um

so it just intuitive that this should

really be valuable and should really

work so I both Angel invested in when he

was starting the company but was looking

for role there wasn't really a business

role which is my real skill set back

then was like a business person um the

there wasn't really a business need

until he could get the network working

which is a product driven strategy to

create a viral product so there wasn't

really a role until he proved that he

can create a CO a growth coefficient

above one and he could get to some scale

so I wind up jumping in once that

happened but I was intrigued from day

one which why I invested I literally

looked at every single LinkedIn profile

every single day for like a year to see

the quality people the caliber of people

that were joining the network because

there was some concern about would we

have out of our selection Etc uh you

know like recently I was interviewing

Max lein on stage and Max had a quip but

it'll explain the LinkedIn experience

Max said uh you were the the most normal

person at PayPal which both says a lot

about me and PayPal but that's wiely

resonated with me is it's a product for

normal people right right so I want to

talk about contrarianism for a second

because I think it's a it's a really

interesting topic and something that

you've talked about a lot and I know

it's in your Twitter bio or xbio now um

it's in my it's in my X bio although I

should point out that I put it there in

2009 it's not been edited so yeah so

some people are like oh that's so Bland

or whatever BL you know it's so B all

and I was like no I did it before it's

cool yeah no I've been following you on

Twitter or X for a while and I remember

it being there for a long time and um so

I could vouch for that um how do you

view contrarianism and so like in terms

of is it a deliberate effort is it like

a framework is it a set of

principles what is it it's a great

question actually I think that what it

really is is that you have a set of

principles and as the world becomes

tumultuous or goes crazy your principles

are no longer in Vogue so it's not it's

not like a reaction to saying I have to

be different it's a the world over the

last X years has decayed in my view in

many many ways and so since I believe in

first principles and a certain set of

principles that's why I'm a conservative

that's why Margaret thater was my hero I

became a contra because the world

stopped believing in Merit the world

stopped believing in a bunch of like

things that I found fundamental to the

history of human race and so that led to

be a contrary now as it became a VC

which is a lot later I didn't become a

professional investor until 2013 so

significantly after I sort of created

that bio to be a successful early stage

investor you do have to be partially

contrary you have to seek a spark in

people or ideas before other people do

otherwise there's no Alpha so now it's a

little bit more professional but when I

first drafted that profile it was just I

just reject the modern world in some

ways I don't think we're making progress

on some dimensions and so that led me to

feel isolated and hence a

contrarian is it an ongoing process for

you because I can imagine you know when

you know you're contrarian about a

certain thing and then eventually you

end up being right right and other

people realize you're right then it

becomes conventional wisdom right then

now it's like that's the norm now now

now it's like you have to sort of

constantly I guess maybe re-evaluate

your beliefs and and see am I thinking

about this you know how am I thinking

about these things and so how is there a

process for that for you well it's kind

of amusing because what happens is if

you're right eventually the world

catches on like the his the history of

our you know the hardore history does

Bend towards accuracy uh so for example

let's let's talk about one that's very

live um just the last week um I had this

belief from day one that Co clearly

escaped from a lab in China and as a

matter of fact it was so controversial

that people like attacked me constantly

on Twitter like call like nonstop but

Bloomberg which is allegedly a media

Outlet wrote a profile of me in May of

2000 that without citation without

quotation dismisses my quote Fringe

theory that Co emerged from a lap so

that's how radical this was at the time

now I don't there's almost nobody with a

brain that doesn't believe that Co one

way or the other emerged from a laot it

was like so obviously true but you hope

that these things move into the stream

or so for example I'll give you a kind

of more aming one um I've always

believed uh that Apple Maps is a much

better product than Google Maps I agree

wholeheartedly used to drive all my

friends crazy like completely nonstop

they all thought I was like losing my

san yeah then um then I'd run these kind

of funny experiments with them like um I

actually got married at a location that

if you tried to find it on Google Maps

you'd get lost and but on Apple Maps it

worked perfectly

I was like I I actually used that in my

like actual wedding I'm like you all got

here if you tried Google you would never

be at the ceremony right now that's

hilarious but but anyway recently though

um Flo on Twitter um uh shared some

evidence they had in Twitter I mean

start at Uber where they had you know

the best data set ever about directions

between ways Google Maps apple and he

actually you know published this that in

fact Apple Mouse is much Superior so I

send it around to like all my friends um

so I've been on this Crusade for a long

time so like I try to have these

original ideas and then you know prostie

and then hopefully convince people you I

have another actually when I started

this stuff even some of my dedication to

sleep was pretty uh

controversial uh and you know OB after

Matthew Walker wrote this book why we

sleep I could give people copies and he

sort of prized very successfully so very

few people will now debate the

importance of sleep you want to be half

happier healthier wealthier you should

sleep more like that's no longer super

controversial at all but I still have a

few um like I happen to believe that the

more stress you have in your life the

better you're going to be happier

healthier wealthier that's still

moderately controversial um hopefully

people will eventually realize the you

know Brilliance behind that theory um I

have this one about Athletics about why

you shouldn't be stretching that one

drives my friends in crazy about as

crazy as the Apple Maps one um so you

know like I try to find new ones but the

goal is to eventually convince people

that you know My Views are better that's

the whole point and that's why I

postize um and then eventually just get

adopted into mainstream society and you

have to go back to the drawing board

interesting question is how do you go

back to the drawing board and I was

asked this question by one of my

colleagues at open store at a lunch um

about a year maybe two years ago and I

actually thought about it and I realized

that it comes back to my history Legacy

of being a a voracious reader if you

read books and content that other people

don't read you're going to be exposed to

different ideas in different data points

and different anecdotes and that's the

raw material that your brain processes

and trains on that allows you to derive

independently views and then once you

shape them based upon the evidence that

you've marshaled from your reading then

you have a perspective and then you

start sharing the perspective so the

more I read probably the better I do at

develop and devising new

ideas yeah I'm curious what your

thoughts on in in business and

investing first mover versus second

mover advantage or future movers right

because contrarianism I guess could

apply to both because you know the first

mover is like maybe a contrarian take

you know it's like so I'm just curious

like if what you've seen in your career

and how you think about both of those I

don't think there's any uh like

religious rule about giving first or

second what I would say in the business

context particularly around being a

contrarian is every great startup should

start as a cult in a cult by definition

is a secret about the world a view about

the world the rest of the world does not

share so it's very

unique then at some point either with

evidence or otherwise you want to move

into the mainstream because you cannot

become a massive company you cannot

become an iconic hundred billion dollar

company unless you're a very mainstream

idea a mainstream concept so the goal is

to be early and right as bold

early as bold and early as you can as an

investor founder and then transition the

world with you to the barass the idea so

Airbnb people laughed at Airbnb that's

good but eventually to be the pseudo you

know close to hundred billion doll

company that Airbnb is today you need to

move Airbnb into the mainstream so that

normal people wake up and say hey we

should consider staying at an Airbnb or

maybe we should make some more money and

rent our place onbb when we're not home

all of these things you have to

transition so what you really want to do

as a Founder is start with a secret

build the CT and then transition into

the mainstream which is where you're

going to capture the

value customers are rushing to your

store do you have a point of sales

system you can trust or is it a real POS

you need Shopify for retail Shopify POS

is your command center for your retail

store from accepting payments to

managing inventory Shopify has

everything you need to sell in person

get Hardware that fits your business

take payments by smartphone transform

your tablet into a point of sale system

or use shopify's poso mobile device for

a battle tested solution plus shopify's

award-winning help is there to support

your success every step of the way do

retail right with Shopify sign up for a

$1 per month trial period at shopify.com

founder hour once again go to

shopify.com founder hour to take your

retail business to the next level today

so I want to talk about um open store

and what you're working on now um but

sort of the not predecessor but like in

in the name of it is sort of the

predecessors was open door which you

started in you know 2014 which sounds

like it was a similar sort of concept

not obviously you know one is real

estate the other is Shopify Brands but

you so open door you were buying and

selling residential real estate um

making cash offers on homes essentially

flipping them um I buy right which is

like the the word uh what happened there

I know Co probably had a big impact um

on that space But what ultimately was

the um story for with you and Open Door

yeah Open Door is company I founded in

2014 recruited uh three three

co-founders uh who I knew from different

parts of my life and history put them

all together and said we're going to do

this finally i' been working on this

idea since 2003 um and interestingly

enough it might have been sparked at

least subconsciously from this

ridiculous exercise in moving across

country to go work for PayPal in 24

hours so as I mentioned I own a condo in

DC I had to sell it in 24 hours to move

to the Bay Area which I somehow managed

to do so it's not accidental that whole

experience probably has something to do

with my insight that selling a home is

both expensive uncertain and very time

consuming So 20% of homes that list 20%

of homes that go into contract don't

close it takes you 80 to 100 days on

Market depends on the market it's now

moved down blah blah blah but but anyway

um very difficult to get liquidity uh

for your primary asset most people's

major asset in life is their home that

cre their home so I liveed through this

myself we're we're going to do this for

everybody every asset in the world needs

liquidity and there's a premium for

liquidity period so it was like okay now

can we do this can we value the H that

seen blah blah blah everything took

dialed in pretty quickly worked pretty

well it's now in 50 60 markets United

States some markets 5 10 a few markets

even above 10% market share so all home

sold so it's it's been doing great Co

actually helped because it helped

clarify like why you'd actually want to

sell or buy a home um without an agent

which actually is pretty important to

the company but putting aside Co for a

second as everybody knows interest rates

went up in a kind of an unprecedented

way unprecedented in terms of the rate

the sequential rate hikes um going from

a very low R rate environment almost

negligible rate straight by to a very

high one um pretty

quickly the problem with that for Open

Door

specifically is that when interest rates

go up the affordability of a home in the

short term to a new buyer is very low uh

so your monthly payment on a mortgage is

a function of your interest rate it's

like the size of the mortgage times the

monthly payment which is calculated by

the interest rate when the interest

rates are one or 2% feels very

affordable because 7% That's not such a

great check to be writing about most L

people can't afford it so people can't

transact they can't move and so open

door makes money every time someone

moves every time someone tell sell a

house so we went from

5 uh 6 S8 million home Styles a year to

4.1 or two million so like it's pretty

significant drop and so open door is

kind of caught in that World um so you

can almost it's actually funny the stock

price is almost like a tracking exercise

in what people believe about the future

of interest rates so when the Federal

Reserve says something positive about we

might cut interest rates Open Door stock

goes up a few percentage points actually

and when people see inflation which

typically means signs of inflation

typically means interest rates are not

going down anytime in the foreseeable

future Open Door stock you know goes

down I think there's some misleading

elements I don't think the market as a

whole has really understood open door

but I understand why it's so sensitive

to interest rates so when interest rates

normalize I.E when inflation is no

longer top concern of Americans um Open

Door will do really well now the company

hasn't innovated that much in the last

two years I think this was very

tumultuous like as you might imagine

like suddenly your Market sort of

disappears it becomes very difficult all

of a sudden that is very difficult for a

company to cap uh to cope with and I

think the company has got distracted

with a lot of challenges related to that

but fundamentally the company's in good

shape if you look at actually the

cohorts of the profitability per home in

almost all markets profitability of the

home is quite strong right now but

overall the company needs a lot more

transactions it's easier to grow in a

market that's growing than e e grow than

the market that's temporarily

Contracting so let's talk about open

store which is your current business uh

what is the Grand Vision with that so

basically what we realized Shopify was

massive success that almost nobody was

paying attention to like shopi literally

you know went from like zero to $160

billion do market cap in a few years and

by powering e-com director consumer

e-commerce and too many people were were

focused on Amazon where Shopify was

really the growth engine of DDC Commerce

and so what in studying Shopify is this

great economic engine what we realized

is that not everybody who builds a

Shopify brand wants to run that brand

forever they're caught up in capital

constraints it's not like appropriate

for Venture Capital except in very very

rare cases

there's a lot of effort that goes into

running a Shopify Brad because they

don't do many things like customer

acquisition retention marketing

fulfillment for most brands there's a

lot of work for the founder of those

Brands to do so what we decided to do is

say hey there's 2.x million of these

Brands when those businesses want to

sell we're going to give them liquidity

like a little bit like the Open Door

story now the difference is we don't

plan to take the brand take liquidity uh

provide liquidity and then resell it we

want to stitch those Brands together

take advantage of things like Accu uh

accumulating advantages like economies

of scale so for example our cost per

package is quite low in shipping and

fulfilling versus these very longtail

Brands like typically we work with

Brands selling between let's say 400k to

like $5 million worth of sales their

cost of shipping sitting package through

Vex is like rock rate so obviously we

send lot packages so we get discounts so

and just for clarification yeah just for

clarification you mentioned economies

scale so does that mean that you are

essentially wholly owning and operating

these brands or are they continuing to

operate no no no no we buy them

completely so we stitch them together

which creates economies and scale

there's some other advantages too like

we can invest in technology so for

example um we use customer support

classic thing like in e-commerce you

know I order a size medium Berry shirt

doesn't quite fit you know blah blah say

I want to talk to somebody so most these

brands have to invest in Customer

Support Instagram d M Etc we invested uh

probably starting about two years ago in

AI driven customer support so we were

able to take our support cost per order

from like something like eight or $9 to

sub a dollar so most brands are not

going to invest in AI technology period

right not not possible so we can provide

therefore significant cost savings with

faster more immediate and probably more

accurate responses and support so we

keep looking for opportunities to double

and triple down another example when we

buy a brand almost all the ads that

they're using running to generate new

customers is basically Instagram meta

Instagram uh and very rarely are have

that has that brand owner invested in

multiple channels we will then add that

channel add to the channel mix uh Google

which some do do but not not most We'll

add like Snap and and Tik Tok for the

great Brands we're going to add other

things like SEO Etc so we get add to the

CH we invest in more channels which

allow us to acquire customers at a

better Blend or at more scale better

blend at C or more scale and then also

do you also do the Fulfillment as well

for all these Brands we do we do we do

yeah um so it's really important um for

us to do the Fulfillment um we basically

that drives down the marginal cost which

is good for the consumer it's good for

us it's good for everybody yeah so like

I could buy like a from this brand and

then shoes from this other brand and I

could have them both shipped together

same package same box same box yep which

saves a lot saves a lot of money to you

or or and us

actually uh what is your investment sort

of philosophy in terms of the brands

that you are you know looking to acquire

or actually do

acquire we've been horizontal hor we

wanted to match the horizontal breath of

shopie so Shopify is roughly 40% appar

we're roughly 43% apparel Shopify has

you know whole a home section has like

Health and Beauty we want to mirror that

as accurately as we can what are some

trends that you're seeing now you talk

about Shopify being 40% apparel but

moving forward do you see other trends

that are sort of maybe going to overtake

that eventually or what are what are

like the big trends right now in

e-commerce well um one Trend that's

pretty Stark is the CPM on that has been

extremely high in the last two months um

you see this on Twitter and people in

direct consumer Commerce and other

places I don't know the exact driver but

it's it's pretty conspicuous um so

obviously that's going to put strain on

the business models of many people both

on Shopify and elsewhere second uh

because they may not be able to invest

prly in all these other channels you

require expertise you know Etc um

second we don't try to guess like let's

say big macrow waves in Commerce at open

store we do notice certain products at

the very grandular level certain

products you know blow up so like for

example if you if you used Instagram

over the last three years you absolutely

will have noticed that cold plunges for

your home cold plunge pools have

exploded like literally exploded call it

like low single digit millions in sales

to just south of 100 million sales for

like leading companies just two years so

things like that happen wow uh in terms

of the long-term Vision do you ever see

retail being a part of it actually yes

I'm not sure exactly how to sequence

that went but as I've spoken to people

who've built independent businesses Bona

bonus uh Albert uh Warby Parker a lot of

them recommend uh retail and there's

pros and cons to this but I could see

either open store qua open store or some

of our signature Brands uh being in

retail yeah and so do you so you sort of

Envision at least for the shorter term

just building like this online

department store of sorts where people

can just go yeah in the short term in

the short term we'll stitch them

together but I could see a retail

environment probably not showing not in

2024 maybe

2025 uh almost surely by 2026

some

version yeah moving on to another part

of your career which is investing and

and Venture Capital you you you're one

of the most successful VCS probably of

all time you know looking at your

Investments which is very impressive to

see uh you were at Coastal Ventures went

to founder fund and then Founders fund

and then eventually back to Coastal

Ventures why did you why did you go back

what was like the the thing about KV

that you kind of wanted to be part of

again well I think the thesis of KV

resonates a little bit more when me

which is bold early impactful that's our

brand bold early impactful and the

impactful part is critical which is we

really believe that our responsibility

as an investor is to increase the

probabilities of success for the founder

and what that entails can vary by

company by founder by partner but that's

our goal and it's our mission so the

capital is least important than the

Venture part um at Founders fund which

has been very successful more of the

role is to find the most interesting

Founders on the planet and provide them

capital and advice if they ask for and

it's worked extremely well as well um

Founders fund if you just look at the

allocation of dollars is currently about

a $900 billion centure fund and a $3.2

billion uh growth fund KB were the

opposite size so were approximately two

billion between our seed and Venture

fund and only $900 million in our opport

gen fund so we're much more skewed

investing dollars as early as possible

we also love deep technology

breakthrough technology um we have like

something like 10 to 15 phds on our

investment team uh so you take it very

seriously some of the Technologies are

difficult to evaluate without some depth

uh so deep bold early and I also we work

a little bit more um we're a bit more

like a baseball team and less segmented

and less disperate like we debate very

vigorously uh so I learned a lot my

first time actually my first you know

couple years at KB there's very vigorous

debates among the MDS which is our term

for GPS uh

we those dialogues helped shape my

thinking and probably made me almost

sure maybe a better investor and so and

FF I had to make more of my own

decisions for better for worse

um I actually enjoy having people around

critiquing uh My Views they definitely

make me sharper so I used to try to keep

uh my former partners at KB's bra uh

voices in the back of my head and I be

like David will say this Spen would

think that and said this Samir won't

like this but like that asres at some

point so I was like well great we'll go

back um we'll get the voices back in

high fidelity and shocking me VOD still

tells the same stories SM still got the

same jokes uh and so I guess it's a good

thing right yeah it has been it's been

very effective it works better for me I

think it makes me sharper uh and happy

which is important but everybody should

find you know the environment where they

can Thrive the best people different

people can thrive in different

environments uh this really works

extremely well for me I also felt like I

could learn more um so I learned I'm

learning already just five or so months

in I've learned a lot about AI um a lot

like it's getting to some depth uh based

upon the fact that I have somewhere

between three and four colleagues who

really understand Ai and so just

listening to their debates what do they

appreciate about different companies why

do we pull the trigger we probably have

the the broadest definitely have the

best portfolio in AI why do they decide

to invest in certain companies not

others and that is kind of training my

brain uh so don't have to absor I can

absorb and learn through osmosis I don't

have to try to master AI from scratch

which would be a fo's errand so I'm

taking advantage of that um so you know

like there's a lot of learning that I

can deploy plus even when we invest in

deep Technologies just as a curious

person I feel like I'm reading the World

Book Encyclopedia sometimes we'll talk

about Innovation and batteries which I'm

not going to lead an investment almost

surely an Innovative battery company

that's cutting that's pushing the

envelope on Wasa phys and chemistry at

the same time that'd be like a Fool's

eron generally speaking for me but I get

to learn about why are why is battery

difficult and why are we at the you know

precipice of laws of physics in

chemistry you know at the same time like

that's actually kind of cool and

interesting so it it's it's just a

byproduct of watching what we do yeah

you've talked about being a Founder

driven investor uh in terms of you know

Founders that you invest in what what

sort of attributes are you looking for

and what makes for a good investment

well it's very simple um it really can

be still incredibly simply I want

someone who has a non-zero chance of

changing the world or Reinventing an

industry if you like most people I say

most I mean 99 pointx per of the

population have zero chance of

transforming the world or an industry I

just need to find the few people that

have some

chance what is that based on is it just

Instinct like you're in the room with

them you feel like like you know they're

passionate about the topic they know

enough about it sometimes you know

sometimes knowledge about a certain

topic I guess when you look back in

history I mean you can you you can shine

more light on this than me but when you

look at examples like Steve Jobs and

Bill Gates you know obviously anomalies

right like their young kids have never

really worked much anywhere they they

know a little bit about stuff but they

they just had something in them that

they went on and changed the world right

how what is your sort of is it a gut

feeling that when you're in the room

with them for you no I I to be clear

generally at KB and me specifically

don't really like expertise um V note

has a py expression of experts are

generally experts in the prior model

which is not what we're trying to do

build new better security models over

the next 10 20 years uh so generally not

a fan what what I'm looking for is what

I've noticed across the board is people

who transform an industrial

War have a trait that is

extraordinary and that they're in the

top call it 10 basis points in the world

at that trait and so all I'm looking for

and the trait can vary like dramatically

vary actually like sometimes they could

be like the smartest person ever they

could be the most tenacious person ever

they could be the best sales person ever

they could be the best X ever but my ear

just perks and it's like oh my God I

have never seen this before that's

usually a good reason to B le as a seed

round obviously if you look we are

multi-stage VC using kind of the term of

art I don't know if you really like the

term but like fundamentally it's how

most people describe us so we do see

Lead Series a series B's and

occasionally other rounds we want to be

as early as possible when you're talking

about C and series a it's mostly does

this founder have one of those traits

for me like is there something

special and that leads to a nonzero

chance like and I've noticed you know as

I've had the luxury uh meeting people in

other fields have been successful in

athletics politics law Sports uh

music it's kind of similar that the

people who really reinvent those fields

typically have a trait that's pretty

special too um so it's basically that's

what I'm looking for is why does this

person have some chance of succeeding

it's irrational if you think about it

like the proverbial Steve Jobs so like

let's go with your example the Steve

Jobs and Steve wack in a garage in you

know routin or or somewhere around there

um we're going to like create a a

personal computer that nobody else

really understands what a personal

computer is and why you need one that's

kind of irrational and like so the

founders who wake up and say I going to

reinvent Financial Services with my

college roommate or my brother um you

start with a pretty interational premise

and so the chance of succeeding requires

something special is there something

special here and if not I probably am

just going to not invest uh what is a

common mistake you see entrepreneurs

make uh and how how can they avoid it if

at all I mean obviously there's so many

ways to fail you know start very

difficult exercise incredibly

challenging but for among the set of

Founders who are really talented and

quite robust the single biggest mistake

is they worry way too much about

competition I think most companies are

are either going to succeed or fail

based upon the quality of your own ideas

quality of your thinking the refinement

of the thinking the back speed execution

and density of talent you have in your

building and so I mostly obsess on that

and not worry too much about

competition yeah uh I'm not a big fan of

the concept of impostor syndrome but I'm

just curious you've talked about having

to constantly reinvent yourself right

from being a lawyer to an executive in

Tech to an entrepreneur to an investor

like you're constantly having to sort of

be a phoenix right and just like Rise

From the Ashes as something new do you

ever deal with just mentally like the

concept of impostor syndrome or is that

something that you feel like you know

what um no one knows what they're doing

and and I'm just neither neither no no

no I actually believe that you have to

challenge yourself to grow that if

you're not growing you're retarding like

you're literally decaying like you're

either in motion progressing or you're

retarding and so I think the only way to

know of you're challenging yourself is

you're biting off something more

difficult more complicated more comp

more complex you've ever done before and

the way you know is your body actually

can feel it emotionally so I put my

point about sports used to read you know

L about successful athletes turns out

like a lot of athletes who are very very

talented thinking of like Will

Chamberlain Michael Jordan and

basketball would get extremely nervous

and sick and throw up before or Bill

Russell before games because they knew

they were challenging themselves their

body knows that they're challenging

themselves so to me that's the signal

you have to put yourself in place where

you're growing muscles and just like

building muscles too like what do you do

when you lift weights you're actually

breaking down that muscle you're like

putting a lot of stress on breaking it

out and then it'll build back bigger you

know bigger better faster whatever um

and that's what you're trying to do so

I'm always looking for kind of cool new

challenges otherwise I feel like I'm

going to Decay and Decay means mentally

Decay professionally Decay actually I

think healthwise Decay one of the ways

to stay young vibrant sharp is actually

constantly challenging yourself uh so

I'm always looking for new challenges

and hence some of you know the different

things I've done in my life but even

even sometimes I'll push myself in

nonprofessional ways so you may know I

occasionally teach a Barry's class not

in my natural DNA is being you a fitness

influencer um on stage say your next

business should be called open poor

because of all the all the sweat you're

around that doesn't sound that I like

The Branding there um I know I know

you're also into EDM music I think right

yeah um if you had to reinvent yourself

would you ever reinvent yourself as like

a

DJ yes yeah I keep getting threatened

with uh people wanting me to do that um

I Davon sty h no um I I occasionally get

requests um you develop I think that

like what I thing I've learned in is

true when I teach berries is I would

only do it if I was taking it bar very

seriously so when I teach a var's class

I put an incredible lot of effort into

it like more than would be prudent to be

fair um and especially when I was

learning to do it from scratch I like

over studied and overtraining by a

significant margin because I wanted to

be at least as good as the average

barers instructor actually I'm probably

better than the average but but I didn't

know that in the beginning so it was a

real Challenge and took like a month to

prepare for a class where a normal

instructor can prepare for a class and

somewhere between 30 30 minutes maybe 50

minutes max I literally put a month into

my first class um and so if I ever did

do something in music it would require

that level of commitment at time and I

don't I don't currently Envision having

that level of time commitment I do I

have developed some music taste which is

a foundation um like you understanding

which songs are likely to work somewhat

why why some songs don't work um you

know they that that is that is

helpful

and I would need years you know of work

to be happy with my performance and I

don't have years to invest but I I

occasionally um im a treat yeah you

never know DJ R boy it sounds has a good

ring to it I did I've played around a

little bit I did get one drop right

once it's like amateur golfer you hit

like one swing perfectly and you're like

oh my God I'm like quitting like I got

like one swing the ball was perfect

every like okay cool I did one great

amazing drop once and I was like I'm

done that's it hang in my head that's

that's awesome uh in terms of you know

what what does I guess what has always

driven you what ultimately drives you

now and what is perhaps the Legacy you

hope to leave behind when you you know

you look back and say I I'm so happy

that I accomplished

this yeah I mean I think there's two

kind of ways to think about this I

triangulate from impact on people um you

know Bri talked about but finding like

up andc coming talent undercovered

talent and you know partnering with them

to help build something U whether I

partnered with them as an employee

sometimes worked with them as an

investor board member Etc um that's the

most invigorating thing is giving people

some increase in their probabilities of

succeeding with their ambition towards

their ambition and so every time I can

find a new PE a new person

that's you know early in their

trajectory with high potential sometimes

potential that other people will miss um

and help them uh that's incredibly

psychologically rewarding the output

though is I definitely want to be

involved in helping create more iconic

technology companies than anybody else

that's like the the scoreboard version

of the goal I love it well Keith this

has been such a pleasure uh and a

wonderful conversation thanks for thanks

for joining thanks send you some sound

uh music for the background yeah I would

love it I would love it thank you sir

appreciate it okay cool pleasure

[Music]