Life As A Spy Inside Al-Qaeda | Minutes With | UNILAD

Summary

A former Al-Qaeda member recounts his journey from being a rebellious religious student in Saudi Arabia to becoming involved in jihad in Bosnia and later recruited by Al-Qaeda. He describes his disillusionment after witnessing the 1998 embassy bombings, which killed hundreds of innocent people. Eventually, he leaves Al-Qaeda, becomes a spy for British intelligence, and provides crucial information to thwart several terrorist plots. Despite attempts on his life, he sees betraying terror organizations as an act of honor.

Takeaways

• 🔍 Espionage and bomb-making leave no room for mistakes; one error can be fatal.
• 🕵️ The path to becoming a spy or a terrorist can be unconscious and gradual.
• 🇸🇦 The speaker began their journey as a religious student in Saudi Arabia, eventually joining the conflict in Bosnia in 1994.
• ⚔️ After the Bosnian conflict, senior Al-Qaeda members, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, recruited fighters for further training in Afghanistan.
• 👤 The speaker met Osama bin Laden in 1996 and described him as soft-spoken, sincere, and not initially appearing as a power-hungry leader.
• 🧪 The speaker was assigned to Al-Qaeda's WMD research and development unit, where they worked on explosives and chemical weapons.
• ❓ The speaker started questioning their role in Al-Qaeda after the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, which killed over 220 innocent people.
• 🚪 Disillusioned, the speaker left Al-Qaeda in late 1998 and eventually collaborated with British intelligence.
• 📊 As a spy, the speaker provided critical intelligence about Al-Qaeda's operations, training camps, and upcoming terrorist plots.
• 💀 The speaker narrowly escaped exposure and assassination attempts by Al-Qaeda but continues to view betraying the organization as an honorable act.

Q & A

What is the first mistake in espionage and bomb making according to the speaker?

The first mistake in espionage and bomb making is your last mistake because you won't live to make another one. Absolute caution is required.

How did the speaker get involved in espionage and terrorism?

The speaker got involved unconsciously, starting at 16 in Saudi Arabia, and eventually went to fight in Bosnia. He was later recruited by Al-Qaeda's Khalid Sheikh Mohammed after the Bosnian conflict.

What was the speaker's first impression of Osama bin Laden?

The speaker's first impression of Osama bin Laden was that he looked disheveled and like a refugee, but his speech was powerful, soft-spoken, and sincere.

What role did the speaker have in Al-Qaeda?

The speaker was sent to Al-Qaeda's WMD research and development unit where he learned and experimented with explosives and chemical weapons.

When did the speaker start to realize he was in the wrong place with Al-Qaeda?

The speaker started to realize he was in the wrong place in early August 1998 after the bombings of the American embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam.

How did the speaker eventually leave Al-Qaeda?

The speaker left Al-Qaeda in December 1998, using a medical condition as an excuse, and later found himself in the custody of British intelligence.

How did the speaker come to work with British intelligence?

After leaving Al-Qaeda, the speaker was detained in Qatar, where authorities suggested he work with a larger agency for protection. He then flew to London and began working with British intelligence.

What were some of the speaker's missions as a spy within Al-Qaeda?

The speaker's missions included gathering information on camps, participants, and plots, and reconstructing this information for intelligence services. He also participated in disrupting plots, such as an attack on the New York subway system and a plan to poison car handles in London.

Did Al-Qaeda discover the speaker was a spy, and what was their reaction?

Yes, Al-Qaeda discovered the speaker was a spy, and they were angry enough to attempt to kill him twice, once in 2009 and again in 2016.

How does the speaker view his actions in betraying Al-Qaeda?

The speaker views betraying Al-Qaeda as an act of honor, not dishonor, and has no regrets about causing the deaths of senior leaders who resisted arrest.

Outlines

00:00

🕵️‍♂️ Introduction to Espionage and Terrorism

The speaker discusses the dangers of espionage and bomb making, emphasizing that any mistake could be fatal. They describe their gradual and unconscious entry into the world of terrorism, starting as a rebellious religious student in Saudi Arabia and deciding to fight in Bosnia at 16. The speaker recalls the recruitment by Al-Qaeda, initiated by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who encouraged further military training in Afghanistan.

05:02

👥 Encounter with Osama bin Laden

The speaker's first meeting with Osama bin Laden is described, noting his disheveled appearance but powerful and sincere demeanor. Bin Laden's ability to read people and his clear, ambitious goals are highlighted. The speaker was assigned to Al-Qaeda's WMD research and development unit, focusing on explosives and chemical weapons, often tested on rabbits.

10:03

🔫 Indoctrination and Realization

The speaker discusses the ideological indoctrination that justified attacks on civilians by redefining them as legitimate targets. The turning point came in 1998 with the bombings of US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, resulting in over 220 deaths and 5,000 injuries. The speaker questioned the justification for such atrocities and decided to leave Al-Qaeda, using a medical condition as an excuse to exit Afghanistan.

15:05

🇬🇧 Collaboration with British Intelligence

The speaker recounts their escape to Qatar and subsequent detention, where they decided to collaborate with British intelligence. They describe the detailed intelligence gathering in Afghanistan, leading to the prevention of several terrorist plots, including attacks on the New York subway and luxury car handles in London. The speaker faced two assassination attempts by Al-Qaeda due to their betrayal, but views it as an act of honor.

Keywords

💡Espionage

Espionage refers to the practice of spying or using spies to obtain political or military information. In the video, the interviewee discusses the dangers and precision required in espionage, emphasizing that any mistake could be fatal. This theme is central to the narrative as the interviewee recounts his experiences as a spy within Al-Qaeda.

💡Al-Qaeda

Al-Qaeda is a global militant Islamist organization founded by Osama bin Laden. The interviewee provides insights into his recruitment by Al-Qaeda and his eventual disillusionment with their methods, highlighting the organization's involvement in terrorist activities and its hierarchical structure.

💡Indoctrination

Indoctrination refers to the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. In the video, the interviewee describes how Al-Qaeda used religious and ideological indoctrination to justify targeting civilians, which played a crucial role in shaping his initial beliefs and later his decision to leave.

💡Terrorism

Terrorism involves the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, to achieve political aims. The interviewee reflects on his realization that Al-Qaeda's actions were not acts of revolutionaries but pure terrorism, especially after the bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

💡Jihad

Jihad traditionally means 'struggle' or 'striving' in the path of God. However, it is often associated with holy war. The interviewee was initially drawn to jihad in Bosnia, viewing it as a defensive war to protect civilians, which eventually led to his involvement with Al-Qaeda.

💡Osama bin Laden

Osama bin Laden was the founder of Al-Qaeda. The interviewee recounts his first impression of bin Laden and his persuasive yet unassuming demeanor. Bin Laden's ability to inspire and lead played a significant role in the interviewee's early involvement with Al-Qaeda.

💡WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction)

Weapons of Mass Destruction refer to nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons capable of causing large-scale destruction. The interviewee was assigned to Al-Qaeda's WMD research and development unit, highlighting the group's interest in developing such weapons.

💡Ideological Indoctrination

Ideological indoctrination involves teaching a set of beliefs in a way that discourages questioning or dissent. The interviewee explains how Al-Qaeda used this method to justify their attacks on civilians, which was pivotal in transforming his understanding of morality and warfare.

💡Radicalization

Radicalization is the process by which individuals come to adopt extremist political, social, or religious ideals. The interviewee's journey from a religious student to a member of Al-Qaeda illustrates the gradual process of radicalization, influenced by various factors and key figures.

💡Counter-terrorism

Counter-terrorism refers to the practices, tactics, techniques, and strategies that governments, militaries, and other groups adopt to combat or prevent terrorism. The interviewee's work with British intelligence after leaving Al-Qaeda involved gathering information to prevent terrorist attacks, showcasing the efforts and challenges in counter-terrorism operations.

Highlights

The speaker emphasizes that in espionage and bomb-making, the first mistake is often the last, requiring absolute caution.

The speaker did not intentionally become a spy or terrorist but rather slipped into these roles unconsciously, beginning at the age of 16.

The speaker initially went to fight in Bosnia at 16, motivated by a desire to defend defenseless civilians.

Osama bin Laden’s associate, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, recruited the speaker into Al-Qaeda after the Bosnian conflict.

The speaker describes meeting Osama bin Laden for the first time in Afghanistan in 1996, noting his disheveled appearance but powerful, soft-spoken demeanor.

The speaker was assigned to Al-Qaeda's WMD research and development unit, focusing on explosives and chemical weapons.

Al-Qaeda's indoctrination redefined civilians as legitimate targets, leading to attacks on non-military targets like trains and cinemas.

The 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, killing over 220 people, was a turning point for the speaker.

The speaker realized Al-Qaeda's actions were more terrorism than revolutionary, prompting a decision to leave the organization.

The speaker was eventually detained in Qatar, where authorities suggested cooperating with a larger intelligence agency for protection.

The speaker agreed to work with British intelligence and moved to London the same day.

As a spy within Al-Qaeda, the speaker gathered intelligence on camps, personnel, and operations, reconstructing details for intelligence services.

The speaker recounts a close call in 1999, when a random check almost exposed their identity, but their calm response prevented detection.

The speaker provided critical information that disrupted several terrorist plots, including a planned subway attack in New York and a plot to poison luxury car handles in London.

Despite causing the deaths of senior Al-Qaeda leaders and facing assassination attempts, the speaker views betraying terrorist organizations as an act of honor.

Transcripts

I mean, one thing you should know

about espionage, as well as bomb making,

the first mistake is your last mistake.

You're not going to live to make another mistake.

And therefore, you have to be absolutely careful.

One wrong word and you are a head shorter

and six feet under.

Of course, I didn't wake up one day

and say to myself, "I'm going to be a spy,"

just as I didn't wake up one day

four years earlier and told myself,

"I'm going to become a terrorist."

You just slip into these things, I think, unconsciously.

It all started when I was 16.

I was, of course, at the time residing

in my home country, Saudi Arabia.

I was more or less a religious student,

but of the rebellious nature,

if you see what I mean.

So, I decided that I have no idea

what took over me to go and fight in Bosnia.

That was in the year 1994. I was only 16.

The idea of going and fighting the war

in a foreign country,

that was seen as defensive, in the defence

of defenceless civilians, I would say.

That was, in itself, honourable.

I think I wanted to be part of history,

part of making it and shaping it rather

than being a spectator.

INTERVIEWER: Why were you then recruited by Al-Qaeda?

By the end of the conflict in Bosnia,

one of Osama bin Laden's senior associates,

the well-known mastermind of 9/11,

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he actually visited Bosnia.

He was looking for talent among the veterans

of the jihad in Bosnia to recruit into the ranks

of Al-Qaeda and to bring them into Afghanistan.

For example, you know, he recruited many

of the future leaders of Al-Qaeda,

Ramzi bin al-Shibh, two of the 9/11 hijackers.

He told me that, "For the next war,

for the next jihad you need to be

better trained militarily.

The training camps in Afghanistan will be opening again

and it's better that you go there for training."

And so I did.

INTERVIEWER: And is it here that you meet

Osama bin Laden?

Yes, I mean, my first meeting of Osama bin Laden

is not exactly, you know, the first impression

that people will have when you mention

the name Osama bin Laden.

The first time I met him was just when he arrived

to Afghanistan from Sudan, in summer of 1996.

He, along with the rest of Al-Qaeda,

they were escaping from Sudan with their lives

and they looked like refugees.

They looked dishevelled and he was, you know,

wearing creased robes and his head scarf

was in a bad state.

And so, the first impression wasn't great

in terms of the appearance.

But, the way he spoke, I think, was quite powerful.

He was soft spoken.

That is something that everyone who met him

will agree on, that he wasn't someone

who gives the impression of being power hungry,

power crazy or someone who would go

on to commit atrocities.

You would think basically, that he is, you know,

a quiet shrewd businessman

who certainly has goals and ambitions

and he wants to fulfil.

That's how you would, he would come across to you.

And also, he would come across as sincere,

not someone who's trying to sell you something

by deception or by trying to employ underhanded tactics.

No, you really feel that he believe

in that product that he is selling you.

He was very clear about his aims and his goals

and what he wanted to do, what he wanted to achieve.

Even though it sounded like the dreams of a lunatic,

nonetheless, you know, this lunatic

would in five years' time change the course of history.

One thing I remember about Osama bin Laden

is that he was able to read people.

I mean, he would look at me and he would think

that, "Hmmm, you are not a commander's type."

You know, young, bespectacled, you know, nerdish,

you know, bookish boy from Saudi Arabia.

"You're not gonna make it into the elite

urban warfare unit of Al-Qaeda."

However, he thought of a better use for me

and he sent me to Al-Qaeda's WMD research and development unit.

And every day we wake up, from dawn all the way

until mid-afternoon, that is where we are learning

and sometimes, either experimenting

in blowing up new kind of explosives

we are trying to perfect, or unfortunately,

testing, you know, the latest batch of poisons

or chemical weapons on poor rabbits.

INTERVIEWER: At this point do you consider

yourself a terrorist?

When we started talking in details

about the usage of the weapons we were

constructing there, these are bombs

or chemical gas devices to be left

on trains, inside cinemas, nightclubs.

These are civilian targets,

and this is why we have the indoctrination lessons,

the religious, ideological indoctrination,

in order to tell us that there are no civilians,

as far as our enemies are concerned.

There are no civilians.

So, we have to redefine what a civilian is

to the point where we come to the conclusion

that if you pay taxes in the West

and if you go and vote at the voting booths,

then you are electing your government,

which basically sanctioned the bombings

against Muslim countries and populations,

sanctioning the siege against Iraq

and the killing of many hundreds of thousands

of young children, or so the propaganda was at that time.

So, that is why we ended up coming to the conclusion,

you know, which is a twisted conclusion I would say,

that there are no civilians as far as the West is concerned.

INTERVIEWER: What was the trigger for having

you realise that this had gone too far?

I think the first time I realised that I was

in the wrong place with the wrong people

at the wrong time in history was in early August of 1998.

I woke up to the news that the American embassies

in Nairobi, in Kenya, and in Dar es Salaam,

in Tanzania, were razed to the ground

by vehicle bombs designed and driven by Al-Qaeda members,

one of our Al-Qaeda members.

It was the first-ever atrocity committed by Al-Qaeda.

It was the first.

It was the opening salvo of this war

that they're telling us

we were preparing for against the Americans.

And details were coming that in fact,

it was an embassy, that 220-plus innocent people

from Kenya, from Uganda and from Somalia were killed

at that attack because they were

at the wrong place at the wrong time.

150 were blinded for life.

The number of, the total number of people

who were wounded exceeded 5,000.

The reason is because the device was so big,

but also they embedded thousands of shrapnels

within the device to maximise, you know,

the number of casualties,

which wasn't excusable because the target

is the embassy. You wanna destroy it.

Why you wanna harm every single one

who is in the vicinity?

What we are doing here is no longer

the acts of revolutionaries or insurgents.

It's more or less pure terrorism.

When I went to the de facto mufti

of Al-Qaeda at that time and asked him the question,

"How can we justify this?"

I said to him, "Look, I'm

not doubting anything, but I want

to be at peace in my heart that we did the right thing

because it's just 220 people dying

in order to get at 12 Americans,

and these 220 had nothing to do with what America

is doing in Saudi Arabia."

So, his answer was quite chilling.

I mean, he said, "Look, we have all this justification

that if the enemy is hiding among civilians

then we have the right to go and kill them,

even if it means the killing of the civilians

and then God will sort them out."

I mean, he went as far as saying

that, "After all, they are a bunch of Africans. Who cares?"

I made the conscious decision to leave

and I just waited for the right moment to go.

I mean, I already had the perfect excuse.

I had a medical condition that I needed to go

and leave Afghanistan in order to get it treated.

I left in December of 1998, just three

and a half months after the atrocity.

And through some, some incredible circumstances

I ended up in the lap of the British intelligence.

INTERVIEWER: Can you tell us how you were turned

by the British?

It so happened that I went to Qatar

in order to just regroup and to think

where to go from there

and to decide what next to do with my life,

that I now left Al-Qaeda.

I remember on the aircraft from Peshawar to Doha,

in Qatar, I was even recounting and renouncing

my oath of allegiance to Al-Qaeda.

I just wanted to be out and I didn't

wanna continue with them.

When I went to Qatar, I ended up actually

being detained there.

However, those who detained me in Qatar,

the authorities there were extremely kind

and they were more or less understanding

of my circumstances, especially after I explained

that actually I was leaving.

They told me that while they admire

my idea that I wanted to go to university,

basically to study history and become a teacher

in the future, that while it is noble and nice

and wonderful that you wanna turn your life around,

there is a catch here, which is that Qatar

is a very small country.

So, the reality is that you would end up,

you know, I would end up meeting my former associates

on a daily basis, you know, in mosques or shopping centres

and therefore, the objective of hiding

away from them is more or less

gone out of the window altogether.

And so, they suggested that I should be

more or less protected and utilised

by a much bigger agency in a bigger country

that will understand the value

of what I would be able to do

and then take it from there.

And so, that is why I more or less

found myself accepting.

On the same day I had to say either yes or no. I said yes.

On the same day I was on a British Airways flight to London.

INTERVIEWER: What was your mission?

I think the question should be,

"What wasn't my mission?"

There were so many tasks.

You see, when you're a spy,

within an organisation like Al-Qaeda

in a place like Afghanistan, which was a black hole.

By the way, Afghanistan was literally

the black hole of telecommunications

in the entire globe at that time.

It was even more disconnected than North Korea.

There were no landlines

and there were no mobile phones.

The only way you can transmit information

to the outside world is by going out.

And therefore, your task is to absorb

everything around you.

So, you are learning about the camps,

locations, the number of people attending,

the names, aliases, the breakdown

in terms of demographics, you know, ethnicities

of people coming in, nationalities

of people coming in, their ages, where they come from,

what are their aims.

And then when you come out you spend literally

hundreds of hours putting it back together

from your mind, from your memory,

and reconstructing it again

for the benefit of the intelligence services.

INTERVIEWER: Were you nervous?

Okay.

I get asked this question so many times,

"Were I nervous?"

I mean, one thing you should know about espionage,

as well as bomb making, the first mistake

is your last mistake.

You're not going to live to make another mistake.

And therefore, you have to be absolutely careful.

One wrong word and you are a head shorter

and six feet under.

If you are nervous, it will show.

It will show.

When you go there, before you reach there,

you really convince yourself that you are back

to that old persona, that you are

a genuine West-hating, bloodthirsty jihadist

and you have no qualms whatsoever about killing

all of those who stand in our way.

You bury your nervousness so deep

in order to make sure that it doesn't show on my face.

I remember in 1999, in one of the camps

I was in the kitchen, there were other people.

But then, I realised that the people

around me were leaving towards the door

behind my back.

I didn't know why.

But then, before I wanted to turn around

and look around and see why, I distinctly felt

the end of a pistol against my spine.

I distinctly heard the voice of one

of our fellow jihadists in the camp

menacingly uttering these words.

"Now it's over.

Give it up.

We know who you are.

We know who you're working for.

It's over.

Now, you have to come with me quietly."

If he said the British or mentioned specific, you know,

organisation I would be really nervous,

possibly even, you know, maybe faint,

because I know what fate would befall me.

But, because the accusations were so random

I realised that this is actually

one of the tactics they taught us about, which is

to have random checks.

So, I turned around, told him in no uncertain terms,

"Lower your weapon. It is forbidden,

explicitly forbidden to point a gun

at a fellow jihadist

and I won't tolerate this joke."

So, the ferocity, you know, with which I confronted him

with more or less took him aback, lowered his weapon

and asked for forgiveness that it was, you know,

his duty and my name was on the list.

After he left, you know, the kitchen,

even though it was November in Afghanistan,

it was starting to snow, you know, I was sweating buckets.

INTERVIEWER: Can you tell us anything

that your intelligence gathering stopped?

One of the things about spying against

a big organisation like Al-Qaeda and being involved

with multiple cells is that your information

leads, either directly or indirectly,

to the prevention of terrorism.

But, in some cases, the plot is so advanced

that, you know, you end up being part of it.

Why?

Because I was an explosive expert.

Being an explosive expert within Al-Qaeda

means that other cells will come and seek

your help and expertise.

So, this happened already in a plot

in order to attack the subway system in New York

in 2003, so I was more or less

part of that plot.

I was asked for help and I provided the help.

But, in exchange for that help I was able

to more or less understand the outline

of the plot, the participants and the direction

where the plot was taking place.

It was disrupted in the end.

Also, there was a plot in 2005, not far away

from where we are recording this in Canary Wharf here

as well as the City and Mayfair, to poison

the car handles of luxury car brands,

and the idea is that if you want to attack

the elite of the bankers and the hedge fund managers,

that would have been the right thing to do.

This cell sought my help in 2005

and they were already obtaining the materials

to put the poisons together.

That was disrupted.

The leader of the cell escaped Britain

before he was caught and later he became

one of the senior bomb makers for ISIS

in Iraq and Syria,

just to show how serious that plot was.

INTERVIEWER: Obviously, eventually it was discovered

you were a spy.

Are Al-Qaeda angry with you?

Given the fact that I caused the death

of at least one or two of their senior leaders

in Saudi Arabia, and I have no regret about that,

they resisted arrest, I would say yes.

They are angry, enough to try to kill me twice,

once in 2009 and once in 2016.

It's a badge of honour, as far as I'm concerned.

All I did, everything in my life,

even when I went to Bosnia, was to protect.

It wasn't my intention to go out

to the world and harm people.

I jumped ship as soon as the first atrocity took place.

Al-Qaeda, ISIS or any other terror organisation

are the true enemies.

Betraying them is an act of honour,

not an act of dishonour.