Are Supersets A Mega Muscle Growth Hack?
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful discussion, Dr. Mike interviews Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, a renowned expert on muscle hypertrophy. They delve into the world of supersets, defining them as two exercises performed back-to-back with minimal rest. The conversation explores various types of supersets, including agonist, antagonist, and unrelated muscle groups. Dr. Schoenfeld clarifies that while supersets do not necessarily enhance muscle growth more than other training methods, they can be an efficient way to train, especially for targeting specific muscles or managing training volume within a limited time frame. The discussion also touches on the importance of not always training to failure and the potential for supersets to provide a cardiovascular benefit.
Takeaways
- 📚 Dr. Brad Schoenfeld is recognized as an expert in muscle hypertrophy, with his paper being the most viewed in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research.
- 🏋️♂️ A superset is defined as two exercises performed back-to-back with minimal rest, and includes types like agonist, antagonist, and unrelated muscle supersets.
- 🔄 The literature does not show supersets to be superior for muscle growth, but they do not negatively affect hypertrophy and can be completed in less time.
- 🤔 There's an exception where compound supersets, specifically pre-exhaust supersets, showed better hypertrophy results in one study, but this hasn't been consistently replicated.
- 🤮 Some subjects experienced nausea, especially in the early phases of superset training, but this effect lessened over time as the body adjusted.
- 💪 It's suggested that training to failure isn't necessary for all sets when performing supersets, which can help mitigate nausea and perceived exertion.
- 🕒 Supersets can be an efficient way to perform high volumes of training in a shorter amount of time, which can be beneficial for time-poor individuals.
- 🏃♂️ There's speculation that performing unrelated muscle supersets for a full-body workout could provide a cardiovascular benefit due to the body's neuromuscular response.
- 🤷♂️ It's important to choose the right exercises for supersets to avoid one muscle group compensating too much for another, which could reduce the effectiveness of the superset.
- 🧠 More research is needed to fully understand the effects of supersets and to provide definitive conclusions for practical application in the gym.
Q & A
What is the definition of a superset in the context of resistance training?
-A superset is defined as two exercises performed in succession with minimal rest between the sets.
What are the different types of supersets mentioned in the script?
-The script mentions Agonist supersets, Antagonist supersets, and unrelated muscle supersets.
What is an Agonist superset?
-An Agonist superset, also known as a compound superset, involves two exercises that target the same muscle group, such as cable pushdowns followed by dumbbell presses for the triceps.
Can you explain Antagonist supersets?
-Antagonist supersets involve exercises where one muscle is worked and then immediately followed by an exercise for its opposing muscle group, like tricep pushdowns followed by bicep curls.
What are unrelated muscle supersets?
-Unrelated muscle supersets involve exercises that target different muscle groups with no direct connection, such as leg extensions followed by bicep curls.
Does the script suggest that supersets are superior for muscle growth?
-The script indicates that the evidence does not show supersets to be superior for hypertrophy; they promote similar hypertrophy but in less time.
What is the significance of the study mentioned in the script regarding muscle hypertrophy?
-The study mentioned is significant because it was one of the first reviews of overall strategies to maximize muscle hypertrophy in scientific literature and is now the most viewed paper in the history of the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research.
What is the potential issue with supersets causing nausea, as discussed in the script?
-The script discusses that supersets, particularly in the early phases of training, can cause nausea, especially if all sets are taken to failure.
How can one mitigate the potential nausea associated with supersets?
-The script suggests stopping short of failure on all sets as a way to mitigate the negative perceived exertion and potential nausea associated with supersets.
What are some practical advantages of supersets mentioned in the script?
-The script mentions that supersets can be time-efficient, allowing for high volumes of training in a shorter amount of time, which can be beneficial for those with limited time or those looking to maintain energy levels during workouts.
What is the importance of the research conducted by Dr. Brad Schoenfeld's students mentioned in the script?
-The research is important as it provides insights into the effects of supersets on muscle hypertrophy, perceived exertion, and nausea, contributing to a better understanding of how to effectively incorporate supersets into training programs.
What advice does Dr. Brad Schoenfeld give regarding the use of supersets in training?
-Dr. Brad Schoenfeld advises that supersets are not obligatory to be performed to failure and that they can be adapted in various ways to fit individual training needs and preferences.
Outlines
💪 Introduction to Muscle Hypertrophy and Supersets
Dr. Mike interviews Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, an expert on muscle hypertrophy, about various training approaches for muscle growth. They discuss the history of literature on muscle hypertrophy, with Dr. Schoenfeld's work being a significant contribution. They define supersets as two exercises performed consecutively with minimal rest, and list different types including agonist, antagonist, and unrelated muscle supersets. Dr. Schoenfeld clarifies that supersets are not necessarily superior for muscle growth but are efficient and can promote similar hypertrophy in less time.
🤔 The Effectiveness and Nuances of Supersets
The conversation explores whether supersets are particularly effective for muscle growth. While studies do not show supersets to be superior, they do not negatively affect hypertrophy and can be completed in less time. A specific study on compound supersets showed slightly better results but needs further replication. They discuss the side effect of nausea during superset training, which lessens over time as the body adapts. Dr. Schoenfeld suggests that training to failure is not necessary for all sets and stopping short of failure can reduce negative perceptions and potential nausea.
🏋️♂️ Practical Applications and Considerations of Supersets
Dr. Schoenfeld and Dr. Mike discuss practical scenarios where supersets might be advantageous, such as targeting muscles that are difficult to engage or when high volumes of training are desired in a short time frame. They speculate on the cardiovascular benefits of unrelated muscle supersets and the potential for them to provide a full-body stimulus. The importance of choosing the right exercises for supersets is highlighted, with a caution against choosing compound exercises that might lead to other muscles compensating and reducing the superset effect.
🧠 Research, Misconceptions, and Final Thoughts on Supersets
The discussion concludes with thoughts on the need for more research to solidify the principles of supersets and to provide definitive conclusions for practical application. Dr. Schoenfeld addresses misconceptions about supersets, emphasizing that they are not strictly a failure technique and can be used flexibly. He also advises caution with compound supersets to avoid reducing volume load on the second exercise. The conversation ends with Dr. Schoenfeld sharing his typical research activities, focusing on mentoring students and conducting assessments.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Superset
💡Muscle Hypertrophy
💡Agonist Superset
💡Antagonist Superset
💡Unrelated Muscle Superset
💡Mechanisms of Muscle Hypertrophy
💡Perceived Exertion (RPE)
💡Training to Failure
💡Volume Load
💡Nausea
💡Contextual Training
Highlights
Dr. Brad Schoenfeld is considered one of the top experts on muscle hypertrophy.
His paper 'Mechanisms of muscle hypertrophy and their application to resistance training' is the most viewed paper in the history of the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research.
Supersets are defined as two exercises performed in succession with minimal rest.
There are three main types of supersets: Agonist, Antagonist, and Unrelated muscle supersets.
Agonist supersets involve two exercises that target the same muscle group, also known as compound supersets.
Antagonist supersets involve exercises where one muscle is the antagonist of the other, such as bicep curls into tricep pushdowns.
Unrelated muscle supersets pair exercises that target non-antagonistic muscle groups, like leg extensions followed by bicep curls.
The literature does not show supersets to be superior for hypertrophy, but they do not negatively affect it either.
Supersets can promote similar hypertrophy in much less time compared to traditional training methods.
One study showed better results for pre-exhaust supersets, but this has not been replicated.
Supersets can cause nausea, especially in the early phases of training, but the body seems to adjust over time.
Training to failure is not obligatory with supersets; stopping a rep or two short of failure can still be effective.
Supersets can be useful for targeting muscles that are hard to engage or for packing in volume efficiently.
Supersets can offer time efficiency in training, which can be beneficial for maintaining energy and focus.
There is speculation that doing unrelated muscle supersets for whole-body workouts could provide a cardiovascular benefit.
The choice of second exercise in a superset can affect which muscles are primarily worked and the effectiveness of the superset.
More research is needed to draw definitive conclusions about the effectiveness of different superset techniques.
Dr. Schoenfeld emphasizes that supersets are not obligatory to be performed to failure and can be adapted to various training preferences.
Dr. Schoenfeld's research involves mentoring students and conducting assessments, with his students being integral to his research process.
Transcripts
are supersets especially muscle growth
promoting or are they just another cool
tool in the toolbox that you could use
in certain
context hey folks Dr Mike here for RP
strength and today I am joined by the
illustrious magnanimous is that a word
probably Dr Brad
shonfeld the are there are lots of
experts on muscle hypertrophy but there
is only one the best and that's Dr Brad
shonfeld Brad did you know that the
first metaanalysis or sorry the first
review of the literature I've ever read
on allaround approaches to training for
optimizing muscular hypertrophy was what
I believe was a part of your doctoral
dissertation or your Master's
thesis Capstone project and it was also
I believe the first review ever
conducted on overall strategies to
maximize muscle hypertrophy in the
scientific literature no there there
actually had been a few before but I
think it was it put things in a context
that now by the way it's called the
mechanisms of muscle hypertrophy and
their application and resistance
training that paper is now the Le the
most viewed paper in the history of the
Journal of strength the conditioning
research and has close to 2,000 or maybe
more citations unreal it was it was a
landmark paper um and also yes I'm
familiar with the older stuff but it
wasn't really a global that's what I'm
saying it had a it had a certain um
cache to it because it looked at
mechanisms and tried to tie mechanisms
to how you might prescribe training
approaches yes all right that was one
hell of an intro now to Super sets first
question what is a super set is it a set
that's better than all the other sets
and wears an S and flies around it's two
I mean the simple answer is it's two
exercises performed in succession with
minimal rest as short rest as possible
between the
sets I know a couple of different types
of super sets I'm going to list them to
you let me know if I missed anything
there are Agonist superpets so for
example I do cable pushdowns then I do
dumbbell presses both hit the triceps to
some capacity so it's triceps then
triceps then there are antagonist supers
sets where you do tricep push downs and
then you run over and do bicep curls
when muscle opposes the other there are
also you could technically say unrelated
muscle supersets where you do a set of
leg extensions on the quads and you do a
set of bicep curls are there any other
kind of super sets I'm missing in that
no you hit the main ones so from a
semantical standpoint the uh one is
called an Agonist antagonist this is
from the literature so like a bicep curl
into a tricep press down would be an
Agonist antagonist supet what you call
The Agonist superset is generally called
a compound superset um where it's two of
the same basically working on the same
muscle group so that also can be used as
a pre-exhaust a lot of times so you do
like a fly into a prep
um but it doesn't have to be you could
do a technically you could do an incline
press and a flat press sure and then you
have your unrelated so you can have like
a squat into a bicep curer yes whatever
excellent my next question to you is are
supersets especially muscle growth
promoting or are they just another cool
tool in the toolbox that you can use in
certain contexts where do you stand on
that yeah they're not well generally
speaking when you talk about are they
muscle promoting the evidence that we
have now does not show they are superior
for hypertrophy we only have a couple of
studies on some of the different types
with one exception which I'll mention
shortly um but they're much more
efficient ways to to train so here's
what I would say they do not generally
the literature does not show a negative
effect of super sets on hypertrophy so
they promote similar hypertrophy and
they do it in much less time um now
there's one one study did look at a
compound a quote unquote pre-exhaust
superset and did show better results for
the pre-exhaust but that has not been
replicated in other in another study
there's only but again there's only been
a couple of studies on the compound a
couple of studies uh on The Agonist
antagonist I don't recall any on the
unrelated um give you a scoop here so
The Agonist The Agonist antagonist there
were two studies in the past both of
them untrained subjects we have carried
out we just finished I'll give a shout
out to Ryan Burke my master student was
part of his thesis one of your former
students great student really terrific
student and um we looked at two groups
one did Agonist antagonist super sets
and we did uh six different exercises we
did a chest press uh and a lat pull down
uh a bicep curl tricep uh press down and
a leg extension leg
curl um now I will say we don't have
unfortunately we've not finished the
statistical analysis of it um so we
should get that shortly but I think some
interesting findings here that I can
present that we do have information on
one is that the supet itself the
superset technique versus the non-s
superet uh the vast majority of subjects
got nauseous particularly in the early
phases of train
whereas much few some of the nons
superet group did as well but much much
less like half the amount got nauseous
and in some of the subjects have
persisted more of the subjects puked in
the uh in the superset group versus the
non-s superet group but again it was
more early phase over time that did not
replicate and interesting we did in an
acute session looked at the RP it was
higher in the superset but when we
looked at it across the length of the
study the RP kind of evened out so what
it shows is if you keep doing super sets
the body seems to adjust to it so if you
try them and you're like dude this is
way too hard keep cracking at it because
you eventually you'll get used to it
that's correct and another caveat to
this is that uh we had all sets to
failure you don't necessarily need to
train the failure on all sets so you can
somewhat mitigate conceivably the
negative uh RP the negative perceived
exertion and the potential nausea by
stopping a reper too short of failure
and probably getting the same I'm really
glad you said that because a lot of
people when they look at Agonist
antagonist super sets like let's say
cable push Downs to a pushup or
something they for some reason assume
that at least the first exercise has to
be to failure and the second maybe maybe
not but it's totally fine to that kind
of super set stop two reps in reserve on
push downs and then two reps in reserve
on push-ups still get a very good effect
these again are not there's no rules to
these things so you can make it we we
need to look to the literature which
tends to show that going to failure is
not obligatory that you don't need to
train the failure certainly on all sets
and that stopping a reper too short of
failure is not going to hinder your
gains and may actually help with
strength yeah that makes a lot of sense
so can you think of some situations I
know that globally super sets are not
somehow dominant to straight sets or um
maybe rest paw sets mybs Etc these are
all kind of good tools in the toolbox
contextually can you think of some good
context in which Super sets at least in
the real world do have some kind of
superiority I can think of a couple off
hand one is if you really have trouble
targeting a muscle and punching a lot of
volume into it you know some people
don't for whatever bro this is
worth they they do a couple curls and
their biceps blow up Pump sort of
everything they connect with they really
feel it for triceps do you remember
Marcus rule body builder from back in
the day he had huge biceps and his
triceps are obviously massive
but not as big as his biceps and he just
said like I have a really hard time
connecting with my triceps in that case
it makes sense to me that like if you're
going to do a bunch of push downs and
that's it it's kind of like yeah you do
push Downs it's fine but if you do push
downs and then get right into close grip
benching or something it can really just
Target and just beat the out of the
area that is something I know works are
there any other scenarios in which suets
offer to you a notable practical
Advantage I think that's fair uh I would
also at least put out we know that
volume there is a dose response at least
up to a certain point a benefit to
higher volumes if you're going to do
high volumes and you're having certain
let's say two minutes rest which
generally is what you're looking at for
proper rest uh between sets um your
session can take quite a long time by
doing super sets you can minimize the
total time and thus your energy level
like when you start boredom can set in
or whatever and people just have to get
out so I think from a the time
efficiency standpoint is really
important when it comes to Super sets
and I think at the very least it
provides the the general public with an
option for getting in the volume in a
manageable format yes
and maybe this is speculative of course
but from your study on that you recently
conducted showing a a great much more
nausea in the superet group at least at
first early phase early phase is it
possible that if we do unrelated muscle
supersets for whole body that we can
crunch a ton of volume into a short time
but because we're doing that and because
no one muscle is ever limiting we end up
getting a pretty not good but decent
cardiovascular and health stimulus at
the same time what do you think about
that uh speculative but I certainly can
see that look I I do think there is
um your whole neuromuscular system is
involved when you're it's not like your
your muscles your brain can send signals
directly just to that there's total body
effects when we're talking about the
neuromuscular system so I think there is
um you're and that conceivably is what
is driving the nuse at least initially
is that the body is just not used to and
by the way these were trained subjects
so they were used to training so but the
body is not used to to I guess directing
the neural impulses in that way
conceivably we don't know
mechanistically so how that all plays
out is still there's so much Mike that
we don't know and so much like you think
that we have all of these things really
well studied and I can come on here and
give you very definitive answers with
high degrees of confidence but uh we're
still in the really early phases
particularly when it comes to the
manipulation of variables in really
understanding uh or at least in giving
having strong conclusions on these
topics I was going to write an
autobiography of my life and it was
going to be titled strong conclusions
what do you think about that title does
that look like New York Times bestseller
material to you or kind of like bottom
shelf I think very
fitting thank
you Dr rad shonfeld thank you so much
for the superet chat anything you want
to get out to the public about maybe
some misconceptions about super sets or
things people ought to know that they
don't is there anything you see in
social media being discussed in around
this the topic of suets that you're like
damn it I wish people would know XYZ
well I think to your point uh you kind
of trumped me with it but uh the fact
that it's not
like a drop set where you train the
failure and then you're going to drop so
a lot of people think that it's
obligatory that you need to train suets
that they're a failure technique kind of
a Advanced Training technique that you
use when you're going to failure and
you're minimizing that you can use suets
in however you want in whatever way you
want and um I think the other thing is
that the I I would say this when it
comes to um s compound supersets which
is same muscle you do need to be careful
I think there is a Nega or conceivably a
negative effect to um if you're going to
do a pre-exhaust there may be some
benefits to that or at least not be
negatives to it needs more study but if
you're going to do like a incline press
into a decline press uh you're probably
going to be losing out on your volume
load on your second uh exercise and it
probably is not an effective way to
train yeah what do you think about the
idea that if you have something like a
closed kinetic chain second compound
exercise that you pref fatigue the
target muscle but then because that
Target muscle starts to feel like the
limiting factor on that second compound
set to your neuromuscular system it
seems in some people in in a particular
kind of exercise in which other muscles
can compensate for the Target muscle the
other muscles end up taking more of the
strain and actually the super set effect
largely disappears for example if you do
cable push downs and then you go into
incline close grip dumbbell presses
there's no way your pecs alone can press
a dumbbell because if you just activated
your pecs it would just do this you have
to extend and if your triceps are pre-
exhausted your triceps will be the thing
pushed closer to failure at the end your
pecs are kind of going to be like this
is easy whereas if you take a machine
press as that second exercise cable push
Downs first machine press second there
are no degrees of Freedom if your
triceps are even let's say
neurologically like inactivated we like
zap the nerves you can actually press
with just your pecs alone and so when
people have prefatigue triceps what ends
up happening is we see higher PEC
activity I know that's been found in at
least one study is that has that been
replicated do do you think that's a
concern of what kind of second movement
you choose good question uh it's not
been replicated longitudinally so I mean
there is some EMG evidence to to your
point I think the issue that I have with
that is that this is just anecdotal but
the triceps are going to be more limited
in a chest press if your Tri your
triceps generally will give out if
before your UH your pecs will your pecs
just a much larger muscle group so I
think regardless of the um method the
mode that you're using whether it's a
machine I think that to me would not be
an effective way to go about it I think
the better pre-exhaust would be doing
like a cable a fly either a cable fly or
a dumbbell fly and then a chest press
where your pecs are pre fatigued and
then because your triceps and aren't
going to be limiting where you would
then allow the pecs you've already
somewhat pref fatigued them and they're
not going to fail before basically they
can fail before you're Trier but is
there World in which let's say for the
PC we do a bunch of flies but then we
get into a machine press for our second
part of the super set and our triceps
end up doing most of the work because
your body detects like the pecs are
tired do more tricep work and it ends up
being that the biceps get a better
stimulus than you would think and the
pecs are more left alone or is that not
a suspicion well good question I I
hadn't thought of it that way but that I
guess conceivably would be a possibility
that's why we need to do the the
research so the basically the take-home
question or the take-home Point here is
the principles of suets are all pretty
sound they're decently well hypothesized
at least but we need considerably more
hard data to draw definitive um more
definitive conclusions that we can
really take to the gym with us and
actually get some results that we're
more confident in yeah well said I love
it Dr Brad shonfeld when you are not
literally eye lasering people's muscles
bigger which is your favorite hobby what
do you what is your typical uh you do
actual direct research you're in the lab
working with subjects that's what you do
well I I mean mostly I'm mentoring my
students so you know I don't uh
generally I help out doing the
ultrasounds and doing some of the uh
assessments but the actual data
collection my students are my uh
basically my lifeline and they uh I I
could never you know people talk about
how I can be so productive it's having a
great team so I would never be able to
do in a big shout out to my students
they are they are what fuels me and and
they are really the uh my lifeline to uh
to research so I love
it Dr shanfeld thank you so much for
appearing on the channel that was really
wholesome I thought he was going to say
some controversial it didn't work
out maybe we'll get it next time see you
guys then
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