Protein & Creatine for Women: JJ Virgin Reveals Muscle Gain Myths & Science

Summary

In this informative discussion, JJ Virgin emphasizes the importance of creatine for women's health, debunking myths about hair loss and muscle growth. She advocates for a balanced diet, strength training, and sufficient protein intake for optimal body composition and longevity. The conversation also touches on the benefits of resistance training for muscle and bone health, the role of hormones in women's health, and the significance of biomarkers for tracking health. JJ shares her personal health journey, including the impact of travel and diet on fitness, and offers practical advice for maintaining high energy levels and a youthful appearance.

Takeaways

• 💪 The importance of creatine for women is emphasized, as it benefits not only muscle and bone health but also brain function.
• 🍽 Women often do not consume enough creatine-rich foods, which can lead to lower tissue stores of creatine.
• 🧠 Creatine helps with cognitive functions such as word recall and verbal acuity, especially under conditions of sleep deprivation.
• 💆‍♀️ Postmenopausal women on antidepressants who also use creatine experience better effects than those not taking creatine.
• 🏋️‍♀️ Women typically do not need to worry about building too much muscle from resistance training; it actually helps in maintaining a lean and fit physique.
• 🥩 The benefits of red meat consumption are discussed, highlighting the polyphenols and nutrients it contains beyond just protein and iron.
• 🥦 The conversation stresses the importance of whole, real foods over calorie counting or following fad diets.
• 🚶‍♀️ Walking is highlighted as a foundational form of exercise, with a recommendation to aim for at least 10,000 steps per day.
• 🏞️ Spending time in nature and getting sunlight are suggested for overall health benefits, including improved mood and cognitive function.
• 🧘‍♀️ The discussion touches on various biohacks like infrared saunas and cold plunges for recovery and their potential effects on hormone receptor sensitivity.

Q & A

What is the main reason suggested for women to take creatine?

Creatine is recommended for women due to typically having less tissue stores and not getting as much creatine-rich food in their diet compared to men. It is beneficial for muscle performance, bone health, and brain function.

How can creatine help with jet lag according to the transcript?

Creatine can help with jet lag by providing an increase in energy and cognitive function. It was found to be effective when taken in higher doses during travel across time zones, helping to mitigate the effects of sleep deprivation.

What are the common myths about creatine mentioned in the transcript?

The common myths about creatine mentioned are that it can cause hair loss and lead to an increase in muscle size, making one look unsightly or 'manly', especially in women.

What is the suggested minimum effective dose of creatine for women?

The suggested minimum effective dose of creatine for women is five grams a day, especially if they are not eating regularly from creatine-rich food sources.

How does the transcript suggest women can counteract the common misconception that muscle gain from resistance training leads to a masculine appearance?

The transcript suggests that the misconception about muscle gain leading to a masculine appearance can be countered by focusing on the benefits of being strong and fit, rather than just being skinny. It also mentions that women typically do not gain excessive muscle from resistance training.

What role does protein play in the diet according to the discussion?

Protein plays a crucial role in the diet by supporting muscle growth and repair, aiding in body composition, and contributing to overall health and longevity. It's especially important for women to consume adequate protein to maintain and build muscle mass.

What are the benefits of walking mentioned in the transcript?

Walking is highlighted as an essential part of a fitness routine with benefits including increasing steps for overall activity, aiding digestion post-meal, and serving as a good starting point for those new to exercise. It also helps in maintaining a healthy body composition and improving heart health.

What is the significance of the red light face mask mentioned in the transcript?

The red light face mask is significant as it is promoted as a tool for achieving younger-looking skin by reducing fine wrinkles and lines, evening out skin tone, and restoring a youthful glow.

How does the transcript address the issue of hormone health in women?

The transcript addresses hormone health in women by emphasizing the importance of understanding one's own body, working with a functional medicine doctor, and considering various hormone supplementation options such as oral progesterone, patches for estrogen, and shots of testosterone.

What is the importance of tracking calories mentioned in the transcript?

Tracking calories is important as it increases awareness of what and how much one is eating, which can lead to shifts in dietary habits and better weight management. It helps in holding oneself accountable and can lead to more mindful eating.

What is the view on biohacking expressed in the transcript?

The view on biohacking expressed in the transcript is that while it can be beneficial, it should not replace the foundational aspects of health such as proper diet, exercise, and sleep. Biohacking is seen as a way to take improvements further once the basics are well managed.

Outlines

00:00

💪 The Importance of Creatine for Women's Health

The paragraph emphasizes the significance of creatine for women, highlighting its role beyond muscle performance and bone health, extending to brain function. It points out that women typically have lower creatine stores and may not consume enough creatine-rich foods. The speaker debunks myths about creatine use, such as hair loss, and insists on its benefits for managing sleep deprivation and enhancing the effects of antidepressants in postmenopausal women. The paragraph also touches on the typical female diet, suggesting it often lacks the necessary nutrients, including creatine.

05:03

🏋️‍♀️ Prioritizing Power Training for Aging Gracefully

This section discusses the importance of power training, especially as one ages. The speaker shares a personal journey of focusing on building muscle and power to maintain physical capabilities. There's an emphasis on the need to mimic daily life activities in the gym to prevent injuries during normal life. The paragraph also addresses the common misconception that power training leads to a higher risk of injury, advocating for a gradual approach to resistance training that starts with compound movements and progresses to include instability training.

10:05

🏃‍♀️ Incorporating Full-Body Workouts and Traveling with Fitness in Mind

The speaker talks about their exercise routine, focusing on full-body workouts and high-intensity training (HIT). They discuss the flexibility of their routine to accommodate travel and changing circumstances, emphasizing the importance of staying active. The paragraph also touches on the use of TRX suspension trainers and the idea of integrating exercise into daily life, even while on vacation. There's a clear message about the benefits of staying physically active, regardless of one's location or situation.

15:07

🤸‍♀️ Addressing Misconceptions about Strength Training and Muscle Growth in Women

This section debunks common myths about women gaining excessive muscle mass from strength training. The speaker explains the differences between muscle size, strength, and power, and why women typically do not experience significant muscle growth from resistance training. There's also a discussion about the body's composition and the importance of tracking calories and macronutrients for a better understanding of one's dietary needs and physical changes.

20:08

🥩 The Nutritional Value of Red Meat and Creatine for Women

The paragraph focuses on the nutritional benefits of red meat, particularly the polyphenols it contains. It also revisits the topic of creatine, emphasizing its cognitive benefits and its role in combating jet lag. The speaker shares personal experiences with creatine, suggesting that it can provide a significant energy boost and help with recovery after sleep deprivation.

25:09

🚶‍♀️ Walking as a Foundational Exercise and the Importance of Outdoor Activity

The speaker advocates for walking as a fundamental part of a fitness routine, setting a personal benchmark of 10,000 steps per day. They discuss the benefits of walking, especially outdoors, and how it connects with nature, potentially offering additional health benefits. The paragraph also touches on the idea of 'forest bathing' and the positive impact of spending time in nature on physical and mental health.

30:09

🌡️ The Role of Thermal Stress and Saunas in Recovery and Hormone Optimization

This section delves into the use of thermal stress, specifically saunas and cold plunges, for recovery and overall health. The speaker shares their personal routine, which includes using a sauna and cold plunge, and discusses the potential benefits of these practices on hormone levels and overall well-being. There's also mention of the importance of optimizing hormone levels, especially for women, and the various methods available for hormone supplementation.

35:10

💊 A Holistic Approach to Health and the Role of Supplements

The paragraph discusses a holistic approach to health, emphasizing the importance of foundational practices like proper diet, exercise, and sleep before considering supplements. The speaker shares their personal experiences with various supplements, including creatine, carnitine, and others, and expresses a more cautious stance on the excessive use of supplements, advocating for a focus on the basics first.

40:10

🏃‍♀️ Sprinting and the Importance of High-Intensity Interval Training (HIIT)

The speaker talks about their commitment to maintaining physical fitness, particularly through high-intensity interval training (HIIT) and sprinting. There's a reflection on the importance of challenging oneself physically and the desire to continue being active and fit into older age. The paragraph also touches on the idea of autophagy through exercise, suggesting that regular physical activity may be more effective for autophagy than fasting.

45:11

🌱 The Impact of Fermented Foods and Ginseng on Health and Hormones

In this section, the speaker discusses the health benefits of fermented foods and ginseng, sharing a personal anecdote about how ginseng may have improved their hormone receptor sensitivity. There's also a mention of the importance of consuming a diverse range of foods, especially fermented foods, for overall health. The paragraph highlights the potential of certain supplements to improve hormone balance and the significance of individualized approaches to health and wellness.

Keywords

💡Creatine

Creatine is a naturally occurring compound found in muscle tissues that helps supply energy for muscle contractions and is used as a supplement to enhance performance. In the video, the speaker suggests that women should consider taking creatine due to typically having less tissue stores and may not get enough creatine-rich foods in their diet. It's highlighted as beneficial for not only muscle performance but also for brain health and coping with sleep deprivation.

💡Postmenopausal

Postmenopausal refers to the time after a woman has stopped having menstrual periods, and it is often associated with changes in hormone levels affecting health and well-being. The script mentions a study where postmenopausal women on antidepressants who used creatine had better effects, indicating the potential for creatine to assist with mental health challenges faced during this life stage.

💡Hormones

Hormones are chemical messengers in the body that regulate various functions, including growth, metabolism, and sexual development. The discussion in the video underscores the importance of hormone balance, particularly for women's health, with a focus on estrogen and progesterone, and their impact on body composition, mood, and energy levels.

💡Protein

Protein is essential for building and repairing body tissues and plays a critical role in maintaining muscle mass and health. The script emphasizes the need for adequate protein intake, especially for women who may not consume enough through diet alone, and the potential benefits of supplementing with essential amino acids.

💡Sarcopenia

Sarcopenia is the degenerative loss of skeletal muscle mass, strength, and function that occurs with aging. The video script discusses the importance of maintaining muscle mass and strength to prevent sarcopenia and the role of regular exercise and proper nutrition in achieving this.

💡Resistant Training

Resistance training involves exercises that work against an external force to build muscle strength, endurance, and size. The conversation in the script stresses the importance of resistance training for women to maintain muscle mass, metabolic rate, and overall health as they age.

💡Metabolic Rate

Metabolic rate refers to the rate at which the body burns calories at rest and during activity. The script discusses the impact of resistance training on increasing metabolic rate and the importance of tracking calories and using tools like bioelectrical impedance analysis (BIA) to monitor changes in body composition and metabolic rate.

💡Inflammation

Inflammation is the body's response to injury or infection and can contribute to various health conditions if chronic. The video script touches on inflammation in the context of recovery from workouts and how hormonal balance, particularly estrogen, plays a role in managing inflammation and supporting muscle recovery.

💡Adaptogens

Adaptogens are substances, such as herbs or nutrients, that help the body manage stress and maintain balance. Although not explicitly mentioned, the concept relates to the overall theme of optimizing health through natural substances like creatine, which is discussed in the script.

💡Biohacking

Biohacking refers to the practice of making changes to one's lifestyle or body through various methods, often involving technology, to achieve optimal performance and health. The script mentions biohacking in the context of thermal stress and the use of infrared saunas and cold plunges for recovery and potential benefits to anabolism.

💡Autophagy

Autophagy is a cellular process that involves the breakdown and recycling of cellular components. The video script discusses the role of exercise in inducing autophagy and the potential benefits for cellular health and recovery, contrasting it with fasting as a means to achieve autophagy.

Highlights

Creatine is beneficial for women's muscle and brain health.

Women typically have less tissue stores of creatine and should consider supplementation.

Creatine can help with sleep deprivation and cognitive performance.

Women might not be getting enough creatine-rich foods compared to men.

Creatine helps with muscle performance, bone health, and brain function.

Postmenopausal women on antidepressants benefit from creatine supplementation.

The typical female diet may lack sufficient nutrients for optimal health.

Importance of tracking calorie intake for weight management and awareness.

Protein intake should be at least one gram per pound of body weight for optimal health.

The benefits of full-body workouts versus split routines for body composition and fat loss.

The significance of power training and how to structure it into a fitness program.

JJ Virgin's fitness inspiration and the importance of maintaining a high level of health and fitness.

The impact of aging on muscle hypertrophy and the adaptability of exercise.

How to maintain strength and muscle as we age, with a focus on power training.

The role of protein in muscle recovery and growth, especially for women.

The benefits of resistance training for women and dispelling the myth of getting too bulky.

The importance of full-body exercises and functional training for daily life activities.

The significance of walking and incorporating steps into daily routine for overall health.

The impact of travel and jet lag on exercise and health, and how creatine can help.

The role of hormones in women's health and the benefits of hormone replacement therapy.

The importance of early intervention with hormones in women's health.

The significance of tracking and optimizing personal health metrics like body composition.

Transcripts

every woman should be on Creatine in my

opinion because if you look at it we

have less tissue stores and you know we

store the majority of creatine our

muscle but it's a small percent goes to

our brain and it's amazing and so that's

why when you look at using it Beyond

just for muscle

performance it's and bone health Etc if

you want it for your brain you got to

push it a little bit more too and women

Tech typically are not getting uh

creatine rich foods as much as men are

as well so there is zero on that hair

loss thing like all these crazy myths

that just won't go away I think if we

get ourselves to a nice Baseline of

creatine that we should always be on and

then push it use it for hard workouts

for sleep deprivation because you want

to make sure you have what you need in

your brain but I mean then there's the

the postmenopausal study that showed

that women on anti-depressants who use

creatine had way better effects than

women who weren't if you're a woman and

you're eating the typical female diet of

you know like the yogurt with the fruit

on top and the muffins and the that

stuff you're not getting

[Music]

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below so let's cut back to it with JJ JJ

it's great to be with you as I said on

your show I've been listening to your

work for a very long time back in 2007 I

used to I wanted to be a pro cyclist and

I would listen to the teleconferences

that you would offer the teleconferences

those were so fun I learned a lot oh

those were the days so what inspires you

to stay physically fit I mean you're a

rarity in this world uh when you travel

you take your supplements you're working

on optimizing your Circ and rhythm in

new time zones taking creatine which I

would love to dive into but um what

inspires you to maintain this high level

of health and

fitness why wouldn't you want to like I

can't imagine now I've literally been

working out since I was a little kid I

bet you have too right I mean I just

don't know anything else but I will tell

you I am more fired up about it now than

I've ever been like I think it's a great

time to be in the nutrition and fitness

space and I think people are starting to

wake up to a whole different reality and

a whole different Paradigm of what 50

plus can look like like I think of what

my mother looked like at 50 plus and we

don't have to go there and she was she's

been she was healthy she lived to 93 um

but you know you start to see all of

those things on Instagram of of like

that woman who started swimming at 67

who's winning medals at 99 and like you

know the grandma doing gymnastics and

like sign me up I am literally pushing

myself harder now than I think I have

for years that's awesome I mean if you

look at the research on adaptation to

exercise and muscle hypertrophy I think

the perception is once you get over 40

or 50 there's no way that you can build

muscle or adapt but the research really

does show that we can continue to build

muscle and uh change our our physique

and physiology so since you've been

working out for so long what aspects are

you noticing that are improving are you

still maintaining strength and getting

stronger

um do you focus more on balance like how

does your fitness program what does it

look like so I never really thought a

whole lot about it I've always exercised

and and then about um three or four

years ago I noticed I was trying to open

a jar and I handed it couldn't open it

so I handed it to my husband didn't

think anything of it then it happened

again then this light bulb moment went

off of like wait a minute grip strength

what's going on I'm the the jar opener

and that's when I started to really

re-evaluate what I was doing cuz I had

gotten into a r and I think this is very

easy to do when you've been doing this

for a long time where I will happily go

to the gym and lift weights all day long

every day and you know I wasn't doing as

much power workouts as I used to like

hit training I hadn't sprinted for years

I know there was that Meme going around

the internet about how after the age of

30 like 5% of the population will ever

Sprint again there's no science to back

it up but it's I I was one of those and

so I started to really look at what

would happen because I think it's like

what could happen as you age if you are

not aware of it and working against it

and so I went and all right I want to

try to pack on as much musles possible

I've always been muscular I've always

had low body fat but I want to take it

to the next level so that if I do start

to lose it at 70 or 80 I've I've got way

more to lose you know it's it's like

setting up your investment account so I

knew that but I also knew that I had to

start really pushing power because

that's where I noticed the biggest

deficit and if you look at the

statistics that is your biggest deficit

you'll lose your muscle size you'll lose

twice as much strength but you'll lose

three times the power and so that's

where I started to put a lot of the

focus love that so prioritizing power I

think that can be intimidating for

people because they associate power with

higher risk exercises and more uh

propensity to get injured so how how do

you structure that are you doing

deadlift squats are you doing more um

band work like what does that look like

practically so I think that we have to

kind of back it up to that statement

because that statement is where I think

a lot of people get in trouble they have

this idea that they're going to go to

the gym and get injured the reality is

you're not going to the gym to get

better at going to the gym you're going

to the gym to do the things you would do

in normal life so that you don't get

injured in normal life and in normal

life you've got to catch yourself

right you've got to pick up something

heavy like we when we went on the boat

trip I was telling you about we had

these huge duffel bags I was like

Farmers carry you know I've literally

started to look at traveling as travel

CrossFit where we're hauling these huge

suitcases and lugging them up on beds

and and I don't want to get injured

doing that which means that I've got to

train for that in the gym and so again

this idea of I'll do those things and

get injured no if you don't do those

things the likelihood is that you're

going to get injured and so when I go to

the gym I try to

mimic activities of daily living as much

as possible so I think we need to work

compound movements that would be you

know pushing and moving across several

joints as opposed to say just doing a

tricep extension right moving across a

single joint I think we have to put in

instability as much as possible and but

that doesn't mean we start there if

someone's brand new to resistance

training I wouldn't go hey let's let's

do some throwing exercises while

balancing on a bosou ball with with one

leg that would be ridiculous um but I

think that's what we want to move into

so that when we are presented with

situations in life where we have to

catch something or catch oursel we don't

hurt ourselves I love that and speaking

of travel this I love to people watch

when I'm in public and on airplanes I

have noticed a lot of individuals can't

even comfortably pull their suit

suitcase out of the overhead compartment

there's a lot of and I often times help

people you know sometimes but that's a

really good proxy for just whole body

strength and balance and and so forth um

when you're doing these multi-joint

movements are you uh let's say you were

to do upper body um and you were to do

maybe um chest shoulders tricep and you

know doing presses and and things like

that do you allow your upper body to

rest and then do legs the next day and

how does this look in terms of the

structure of your uh day-to-day 3 to

four days or five days a week of

exercise it always depends on where I am

and what's going on

so I'm looking I just read some research

that was looking at doing a full body

workout versus doing a split in terms of

what it would do for body composition

and fat loss and and the full body one

and I'm thinking what I really need to

move into next I think it all comes down

to your priorities right now my priority

is not building muscle it's focused on

more V2 Max and um hit training and I'll

avoid that so what I'm working on moving

into now is more full body one day and

then hit the next or doing maybe upper

with hit one day and then legs the next

so it it really depends I'll look across

a couple days especially since I travel

so much and think what is available to

me like the last couple days I was on a

boat well one day I was on a boat we

weren't getting off the boat I'm like

okay now what well I brought a TRX as a

gift right figured out a place to put

that and I literally was at the front of

the boat doing up downs you know Burpee

squat jumps they're like you okay but I

had to do something

and wasn't going to get it just sitting

on the boat right that's amazing and the

thing about the TRX Raven resistance

bins is they're so small I mean you can

put these in your suitcase you can do

these anywhere I love that and it's just

thinking ahead you know and planning a

little bit and then getting back into

your boutine after uh a vacation is so

much easier if you've been doing a

little bit of something just to send the

stimulus to the muscles right and it's

different so I look at it and go I

always travel with the TRX if I'm going

to be in places where I'm sure of the

situation like that's the Saving Grace

but so's your body so you look at and go

you can do a great hit workout with your

body right totally so I think the bigger

question is okay how am I going to pull

this off what am I going to do there's

always a way to do it and of course when

you're traveling you're getting in a lot

more steps I wish I could figure out how

to get a wrecking vest with suitcase

weight I haven't figured that one out

keep thinking we need to make a water

vest of some sort but that would be

really Co cuz otherwise you have these

little lead or steel P they kind of

throw your weight over I pack my CU on I

was laughing when you said that about

the um the carryon into the overhead

being a proxy for strength it's it's

like the perfect like you know snatch up

there or clean and jerk but I put so

much in there because I travel with a

podcast Studio my lights I mean it it's

probably like 70 pounds yeah that we're

hoisting up into the overhead so it is

right and that's in you know there's a

stress aspect of it because you've been

sitting for a long long time then you

have to get up and there's people and so

it is a really good functional test you

know for like whole body strength and

resilience which I think is exciting um

I still see the comments from Mostly

women and the perception is if I focus

on Power and strength I'm going to

develop all this upper body musculature

and that's going to look unsightly or

manly um you've been exercising for a

very long time very feminine yet fit

what do you say to that argument and

what do you say to women when they

present that to you well and then they

say but just want to have arms like

yours I'm like well let me tell you what

I do to get these arms you you know it's

so interesting cuz when you look at

muscle size muscle strength muscle power

if you really wanted to build muscle

size it's a different type of training

than strength or power if you want to

get strong I remember in grad school one

of my girlfriends was a powerlifter I

was so much I had so much more muscle

than she did I was had much better

hypertrophy because I was training for

hypertrophy she was training for power

and strength they're different they're

different

having said that though most of us are

just going to go in and do a resistance

training um routine and I hear every day

it I just still can't believe it

especially when I talk about that plus

creatine I don't want to get big I have

been training women for 40 years for 40

years I've never had a woman doing

resistance training get bigger ever

never I've had women doing no resistance

training and not working out they get

bigger but every time I've ever seen a

woman do resistance training it's like

they just put on metabolic spanks it's

going to hold everything in tighter it's

going to now make you more insulin

sensitive now you've got better basil

metabolic rate you've got better like

recovery you've got more metabolic cost

recovery it it's going to shift you

completely to be leaner fitter higher

metabolism and you don't get bigger and

if you did if per chance you were going

I don't like the way this muscle looks

stop I mean you're lucky if you can

build one to two pounds of muscle a

month yeah right you'd have to do

everything right I mean very intentional

about that right diet sleep I mean

especially once you're 30 plus like your

hormones aren't kicking in to save you

here so there's so many things that you

need to do to really put this together

correctly and it's a slow process I

always tell people this is like watching

grass grow yeah that's a good an allergy

watching pain dry right it takes a very

very long time yes um and I want to get

into hormones later and talk about DHA

and testosterone and things like that

but what I I think where this concern

about excessive muscle with women comes

from if they haven't been doing any

resistance training and they have a

little bit of extra body fat and they

start really pushing it in the gym their

muscles might feel Fuller their glutes

or their legs and so and if they still

have a little bit of and they still want

to lose some body fat let's say they can

feel maybe a little bit more full and

then over time they'll start to lose the

body fat and they won't feel that right

size um have you found that to be the

case well so there's an easy solution to

that you know the easy solution to that

is to do recomping is to lose fat while

building muscle whenever I hear that I

think back to another myth that still

seems to be around that was in grad

school in fact my professors taught me

this in grad school and luckily I was

one of those people that did not listen

um because I had clients at the time so

I was like well that I'm not going to

get paid to do that they said do not

have someone lift weights till they've

lost the weight

which couldn't be farther from the truth

because you've got someone who's overfat

they tend to be more insulin resistant

the fastest way we can fix that is start

to do you know build muscle um but if

someone wants to drop some body fat and

build muscle then we just recomp them we

get them into a little caloric deficit

we pump their protein up a little higher

we have them doing resistance training

hit and lots of steps and boom nice it

can be done yeah and when you're looking

at Recon pumping and getting into a

calorie deficit do you like to do some

basil uh testing with metabolic rate and

to see where their metabolic rate is or

calorie tracking how do you navigate

those Waters so if I could have my

perfect world like in the perfect world

everyone would do a dexa and it would be

great if they could do a breath

metabolism test and compare them like

you know your dexa is going to do a

prediction of your fat-free mass and

then do a basil metabolic rate predicted

off of that and I know my breath test

and my dexa were different by about 100

calories

the other cool thing that you can do

though is I I think one of the first

things that we should do is just start

to track our

calories you know I'm sure you've seen

it if all you have someone do is just

track what they're

eating things shift yeah I I'll never

forget I had a client who could not

figure out why she couldn't lose weight

and you know she was reporting which she

back then we didn't have apps so she

would you know write down tell me what

she ate each day and I was like gosh

this doesn't make any sense and and then

I went over to her house cuz she invited

me for dinner and I'm watching her as

she's cooking and I'm

like I was transfixed because she put so

much she was eating so much while she

was cooking and she had no clue she did

that like she ate a whole meal before we

ever sat down to the meal and then she

told me about you know she basically

recorded the meal she ate and so it

sometimes it's just the awareness of

what you're actually eating of how much

olive oil I

I did a podcast with I forget who who

was like do more olive oil I think it

was Dr will Lee and I'm off to Italy and

I must have had like a cup of olive oil

on each salad you know and then you come

home you're like okay rain it in you

know it's still it's still calories you

know too much healthy foods unhealthy

and it's really e easy to overload on

things like nuts and avocados and olive

oil and ghee right yeah no I agree I

think just the the fact that you're

actually going to start tracking and

being accountable causes you to a little

bit more mindful about the mind leading

and I think that's a big aspect so yeah

I started doing that in the early 2000s

and then now have a pretty good Baseline

and haven't tried calories since but if

you haven't yet done that I think that's

a oh it's amazing so if you really want

to know how many calories you need every

day to maintain your weight just track

what you're eating for a week or two you

know you'll get now the challenge will

be first you're going to start to change

things to may you do it but you have to

get into a set place where you're really

tracking it and then you take the

average just like your body comp I tell

people just get a Bia machine a biome

pedance machine yes it's not as accurate

as a DEA but a DEA is not as accurate as

an MRI and an MRI is not as accurate as

Cav dissection so you do the best with

what you can but if you look at that

Trend over time you know once a week you

take the trend of the week because every

day you'd make yourself crazy and you do

a waste in a hip every week then you can

get a really good idea of if things are

improving or not right and so you can

put that together you can look at your

your tracking food app and go oh I

maintain really easily on an average of

this many calories a day might bounce a

little bit but you know I know for me

that's like right around 2400 is an

average some days like last night we

went had a meat Fest and did 3,000

calories the day before I might have

done 2,000 but it averages out smart and

then if you do have a a surplus like

that will you intentionally fast or have

a lower calorie the next day or you just

kind of go by how you feel no I just go

by how I feel I just

basically I eat protein first that is

the biggest thing I focused on and

here's what's crazy so last night we go

out and we're we're sitting right next

to one of those Brazilian steakhouses

we're like let's just go down there and

have a meat Fest we did a pure like sea

Baker would have been proud of us we sat

down and we literally had meat right

that's all we had and I'm like looking

at this I wish I had a food scale cuz

I'm trying to gauge how much of meat

that that we've eaten and you know you

just get full you're like I'm done um

but this week to today the scale was

down 2 lbs wow but that on both of us

we're both going I probably ate 24

ounces of meat last night at dinner yeah

lean Cuts but still you know it's lot

yeah it's a lot of meat that is totally

but I mean what's interesting about meat

in comparison to processed carbohydrates

and you know liquid oils and things like

that is the thermogenic effect of

protein right so 25% of that just boom

got expelled and I mean I remember last

night just and then we walked afterwards

like we got to go do something we have

to do something walk this off but I

thought last night when I went to bed I

go I'm probably not going to need to eat

for days I'm so full but woke up this

morning you know ready to ready to go

ready to have breakfast that's awesome

uh drilling down a little bit more on

protein um obviously there's tons of

research now I think protein the the

science is pretty clear that we should

at least be having one gram per pound of

body weight I don't know you I still

have been getting people pushing back on

this really uh-huh yes and the argument

is what

so I look at this really from body

composition I mean that's my focus is is

body composition and and for people who

want to lose weight gosh the easiest

thing is to have meat protein first

they're not hungry right but there's

still the two longevity camps and

there's that longevity Camp of like if

you want to you know increase health

span lifespan keep mtor low I'm like

I want great flux and I need balce you

wouldn't want to keep insulin low all

the time we'd have a problem you

wouldn't want to keep cortisol low all

the time you'd have a problem nor do you

want to keep mtor low all the time you

want it to come up come down you want

insulin up down right and so I still

hear that over there in fact I was just

somewhere where they had that discussion

saying they're going to come out and say

we need to eat lower protein I'm like I

completely disagree in fact I think we

should probably be supplementing with

essential amino acids too just to make

sure people are getting what they need

especially women who tend to not eat

less yeah and they just tell me they

can't get enough protein and I'm like

well eat it first yeah you know I just

watched you eat your biscotti your

muffin your this you're that like just

eat it first right the the low protein

Camp it's interesting I think we're

seeing science unveil in real time as

people age I mean if I were to see you

next to wter Longo and look at body

composition and just say who's going to

age more gracefully I was going to say

could I take him Let's do an arm wrestle

dude you know I don't want to be too

judgmental but I mean you know it is

interesting you you look at how people

are eating and how they're aging look at

Sea Baker 58 years old can oh my God

he's a specimen right so this idea that

theoretically mtor is this driver of all

these different diseases but the other

foods that increase empor are cookies

biscotti ice cream cones wouldn't it

differ with the tissue we're talking

about like I want my muscles like you

look at what happens as we age and you

look at the RIS with sarcopenia and and

the person talking to me about this I

also was looking at going you look

sarcopenic to me you know let to do some

pull-ups um you know I look at this and

and think I want to be as functional as

possible for as long as possible and you

must have great muscle size strength and

power to do that you can't build those

without protein right and if you look at

the amount of protein turnover we have

each day I want to make sure that I have

optimal to handle that totally cuz

there's no real store for protein in the

body no so we're going to be breaking

down muscle which we want to break down

buildup break down buildup but if we are

not really paying attention to this

we're going to be breaking down more

than we're building up yeah and I know

that's not like I literally test go do a

dexa now every six months and I because

for my 60th I'm like that's it I'm going

to get in the best shape ever and I was

like okay got got down to my leanest

body fat that I was with my 20s with

more muscle amazing so I'm like going it

doesn't have to be right and when I was

at I was at SC for my PhD work and we

had Master's level athletes in their 80s

and 90s that you know I mean they could

beat a 30-year-old any day of the week

yeah they're crushing it the the

lifelong Athletics as people get older

there was just a study because the

Olympics are going on as we record this

showing that Olympians live on average

about 5 years longer than non- Olympians

when you match their age so the idea of

regularly exercising and and stimulating

mtor and doing these things is very

beneficial well when you look at like I

think what's the big scary thing about

mtor is cancer but then you look at

people who exercise regularly and their

cancer risk is as close to zero as a GS

right so like I don't know put these

things together quality of life lower

lower way lower risk of cancer because

you're killing off those dead those

cells all the time and you know you can

do the things you want to do and feel

good yeah you know throughout life and

move well yeah it's interesting you know

I'm guilty and have been more guilty in

the past of drilling down into these

mechanisms whether it's mtor igf-1 or

what have you and you get really excited

about the cellular biology but then you

kind of lose the forest through the

trees and I think sometimes we're seeing

that in all facets of of Health we see

that with cardiovascular disease monom

manically focusing on LDL but affecting

not looking at LP little a or all these

other factors so that's interesting but

what I found with the protein

conversation is it gets really sort of

clouded or obfuscated with well what's

better for Animal Welfare what about the

environment how sustainable is it so all

these other sort of emotional buttons

and levers get pulled and then we're

kind of getting away from what we're

talking about so we need to talk about

just one Topic at a time like what is

best for Human Health and Longevity

supporting muscle we know it's so

important for as you mentioned um

overall health cancer reduction

preventing Frailty sarcopenia and not

confusing that topic with the other

aspects of the environment or Animal

Welfare yeah well I mean if if if it's

an environmental issue just stop food

transport yeah and we should probably

stop traveling so much but I mean those

you know you look at and go what's

really causing the problem you know it's

uh it being in Europe and having fruit

that doesn't taste like the fruit here

and I realize well it's because they're

not transporting it like if it's not in

season it's not there yeah which is what

we should be doing right yeah that's

what we should be doing just have eat

seasonal local organic rotate your food

the stuff we know that we're supposed to

do but then it's like you go oh I can

get cherries and it's December yay

you're you're Minnesota right where show

me the cherry tree in December exactly

it's like come on have you seen that

Meme on the internet where there was

peirs grown in Latin America they were

packaged in the Philippines and then now

they're sold in the US so it is kind of

interesting that we focus so much on how

destructive meat and cattle are for the

environment but then you look at these

so-called plant-based foods which I

quite enjoy I like pears they grow in

our backyard no I don't think of that as

a plant-based food to me a plant-based

food is the weird Burger thing like I

where was I and they literally had on

the menu this just over the last couple

days and I remember looking this going

you have a

glutenfree battered plant-based fish

stick what would that be what is that

jack fruit maybe or yeah it's bizarre

taking all these and think about the

greenhouse gases that are created to do

that from the crop production and

whatever else it it's just an

interesting conversation but I feel like

this is going to be like the uh the

topic of our life in the next 5 to 10

years as the climate activists really

sort of go after diet and and protein in

this um but getting back to for your

clients where do you like them to aim

people always want numbers and targets

how many grams whatever does it change

on where people are at on their fitness

journey you know what's so interesting

about all of this is a lot of the

numbers I was taught in my 20s are very

different than the numbers now but yet

we haven't changed so just like even

body fat percentage back when I was in

school I was taught that you know a

healthy woman was 18 to 22% body fat

maybe up to 25% and that if she was

athletic she'd be somewhere in the 15 to

20% range and men were you know healthy

at 8 to 15% right and now it's entirely

different and and so you know I look at

these things and go numbers I'm sorry

I'm going with the numbers for where you

want to be optimally and not let's like

not try to make this this whole idea

that you can be healthy at any size is

so unfair to people because you're

giving them misinformation and by the

time they realize that it's a bunch of

BS it's it's going to be late and hard

so I think the first thing we need to do

and I I started doing this years ago

because I couldn't find any norms for

skeletal muscle and literally back I

think this was 25 years ago I created

norms for skeletal muscle because I was

like really if we focused on having the

right amount of of muscle mass which you

know we have to do the proxy of fat-free

mess and a guesstimate okay we don't

have any great way to be super accurate

but we can get close enough um I think

that if we start to look at this and go

let's focus on um improving our skeletal

muscle and how you could just do this to

say get get yourself in the right range

for your body mass index with to healthy

body fat if you are at the right range

for your um BMI but your body Fat's High

your skeletal muscle is low right so

that's an easy one and then as far as

the other numbers go um are you looking

for like protein but I look at it

protein as I think that the range should

be 7 is the minimum per pound of Target

body weight and honestly if someone's

really working on recomping going up to

1.5

okay because it's just going to be

easier yeah so so that makes it easy for

that one gram but I just want people to

not be scared if they go over that

there's still this idea of oh my gosh I

went over and I'm went and nothing

happened you know like if your body

really had to do it it could it could

turn it into sugar you know and use it

so but that's really hard I someone I

was interviewing they told me that you

know you don't want to eat too much

protein because it you know it'll be

stored as fat and I go not very easily

that's a big really hard process to ever

get to be stored as fat so I like that

in in terms of protein sources um I'm

personally not a huge fan of chicken we

have backyard chickens and stuff like

that I love eggs and red meat um some

people don't like red meat they don't

like the taste or you know whatever

which is really too bad because gosh the

polyphenols I mean red meat I think is a

huge important part of our diet so let's

talk about that what what aspect I mean

I I know you're a fan of creatine which

is where I want to go next and the Caron

nutrients that's something you've been

talking a lot about for years creatin

cartine Tor and all that but why do you

think red meat is a

superfood um the polyphenols in it so we

don't think about that and I remember

you know as I started to look at the

carnivore diet and I always joke if I

had to be on a diet I'd be on the

carnivore diet like if I had to do one

thing it would be carnivore and coffee

uh that would be it but you know when I

look at that di I'm always like yeah but

where's the five fber you know where's

the fiber but when you look at what you

can get you can get a lot of nutrients

in meat that you don't think about we

tend to think of meat as protein and

iron but there's all these polyphenols

in there too especially depending on the

you know animals diet we are what we eat

eight I think the big argument around

meat is always of course you know the

way we're treating cows or what they're

eating like yeah but eat good ones you

know eat clean you are you eat eight um

so I think red meat

is really a great Cornerstone for

people's diets because of all the

nutrients are going to get into it and I

and and I agree with you like most of

the chicken that we get is just bad

they're grown in warehous nasty chicken

it's always amazing I was in Peru a

couple summers ago and we stopped by the

roadside to a chicken stand literally

the chickens were there and then they

were cooking the chickens you know I'm

glad I didn't see the ineter of that but

those chickens look entirely different

than our chickens you know they don't

have those big breasts right they

haven't been like augmented chickens

like we have that are that are higher in

Omega sixes so um I'm much more a fan of

Clean Fish lamb and meat I agree with

you those are the better choices and if

you're not intolerant like great eggs

now just being in Europe I remember

walking up to the buffet and looking at

the scrambled eggs and going the

scrambled eggs are bright orange even

here when you're ordering from the when

you're going to the store and getting

pastured eggs they do not look like the

eggs of Europe which is really

disappointing it's great that you have

chickens and you can get the bright

orange yolks at home but for most of us

at least make sure you're getting

pastured totally no I agree and what's

interesting in Europe is they don't

rinse the eggs off I mean at the grocery

store they're out near the cereal or

whatever it may be they're not stored so

yeah I found the food quality having

just been in Europe we were both there

around the same time in June to be much

higher across the board oh it's

incredible like I came out of and

literally we ate everything people was

like do you follow your you know diet

there I go I would never have done the

virgin diet in Europe because there's no

need you know um I eat everything there

I just not a big bread eater although at

One Restaurant they had this like

24-hour fermented sourdough we're like

bring it over here um but it was crazy

we went

to a 17 course Michelin dinner we went

to a wine tasting we went to all of

these things ate all of this stuff I

come home I have dropped 2 lbs wow

and the minute I go I was at an airport

I told you I was in the it Global outage

so we're now stuck at an airport hotel

we go to dinner I have fish I have

vegetables I have the worst stomach ache

ever like I look like I've got you know

I'm six months pregnant dying it was my

first meal back yeah so we it is I don't

know how to fix this one we so messed up

our food supply and when you think about

it like you know I make good choices and

I get stuff you know I'm getting great

stuff from great places and still I mean

so what does the you know typical

person who is going to an average

grocery store I mean it is really hard

and that's not even looking at the food

desert situation right it's very

challenging um I I don't know why that

message is not being conveyed from the

healthcare professionals about the

importance of whole real foods and yeah

I don't I don't know the solution but I

think it is more of a Grassroots

movement and encouraging people to do

what you just said uh several Clips ago

and that is eat within you know 100 mile

radius if you can you know it's cheaper

too a lot cheaper you care about the

environment I mean that seems to be the

most valuable solution um and then

you're eating foods that are in season

there's good research to show our

microbiome sort of changes seasonally

and then so in the winter months you're

having more meat more stews things like

that maybe all the root vegetables and

yeah yeah it just makes sense so I think

that's the that's the solution but

getting people to get on to that message

is is tough because we focus on calories

and then we look at these different

diets and they focus on these numbers

and point systems and low calories oh my

God the Weight Watcher situation it's

like will we ever recover from that I

don't know you look at so I I I looked

at Spain I what are our takeaways our

takeaways are except for the Americans I

didn't see anyone walking down the

street eating or drinking yeah like if

they were going to have a coffee they

sat down at the coffee place and had a

coffee they didn't have a jumbo siiz

Frappuccino with whipped cream on it

unless they were an American right um

they didn't walk down the street eating

they actually took time with their meals

now granted their meals are ridiculously

late at night but you know it's all real

food and I was looking at just the

difference in Ultra processed food in

Spain versus United States their diets

maybe 25% Al processed food ours is over

70 now the late night eating thing is a

conundrum for me hav spend time in Latin

America how do you do you think that

they're able to sort of overcome that

with all the socialization and walking

and taking time for their meals I mean

to me that seems like all the research

that I've read about eating close to

bedtime is bad for body composition and

Sleep Quality blood sugar I know it

makes no that's the one I was like but I

don't know how to wrap my brain around

this the only thing I looked at there is

I went well we just spent two hours

eating dinner maybe three and then we

all went and walked Mak sense so it at

least the walking is going to Aid the

digestion and I'm assuming so I was like

what you know what time do you go to bed

if you eat at 10:00 sure and what time

do you get up and what are you doing and

so that one I just that's the one I

wouldn't take home right you know it

just doesn't make any sense however they

are walking after that so that that

definitely makes a big difference yeah

speaking of walking there's a lot of

good research to show we should be

walking at least about 9,000 steps per

day is that something that you found to

be pretty effective just you know I know

you walk and are intentional about when

you walk particularly in the postmeal

window um what do you tell your clients

so I'm obsessed with walking um like in

my I like I'm very very left brain

algorithmical so I like to kind of go

what do we need to do in terms of

Fitness priorities and I think the place

we all need to start is tracking and

tracking your steps now I'll tell you

this drives my husband crazy because for

some reason you know we'll be together

the whole day and I'll have like 2,000

more steps than him he's like what is it

I go I think you must put your hand in

your pocket I don't know like you're not

swinging your arms like I'm swinging but

I as I started to track it I realized

gosh there are some days I'm getting

like six 7,000 steps this is not okay so

I've made my Benchmark now my like bare

minimum is 10,000 steps which of course

you could imagine on that boat I'm like

okay we got to do something here when

I'm on a cruise ship I never never take

the elevators and even in hotels that's

kind of our rule like whenever we can we

take stairs as much as possible um and

we walk as much as possible but I think

for a client if you're listening you're

going all right it's I'm I'm fired up

let's get in shape I think the first

place we start is to make sure that

we're getting that activity in that

we're getting in minimum 8,000 I really

like 10 12 you know more more is better

um and then the next part of that is to

add some intensity and I think these

wrecking vests are the greatest things

ever like I just love wck vest so that's

such an easy way to add intensity cuz I

live in Florida and there's no Hills

yeah it's like so what are you going to

do uh and it's great if you're just at

home on a little treadmill you know

walk-in pad you can add your rcking vest

but then after that then I start

building in now let's building

resistance training now let's add in

some power and strength into it you know

some high velocity but I think that's

your core Foundation that we have to

emphasize it's like flossing your teeth

drinking water getting your steps

yeah that's amazing and what weight do

you use personally for the wrecking vest

what yours depends what I'm doing so

I'll go anywhere from 15 to 25 okay I

know and then I saw my buddy shellene

Johnson's at 25 and I'm like you're like

half my size so I was like I need to

probably up that it up a little bit yeah

go back and forth maybe yeah I found it

to be very effective uh wrecking I have

100 pound one that I use to to train for

like the summer hiking backpacking

season and things like that and I'll do

a mile with that several days a week but

it's amazing like just if you look at

your heart rate I mean it Jacks it up

huge well I don't know if you remember

this because you are much younger than

me but back in the day we had these

stupid little hand weights that

everybody was using to work out with and

I'm like don't do that and they were

then they were putting ankle weights on

and going and walking I was like don't

do that just you know if you think about

it we started wrecking when we were kids

we wore backpacks remember all the books

we used to have to take to school MH

like we were

wrecking so I I have a backpack with me

on this trip cuz I like all right I'll

be able to pull this off and I go yeah

but I don't really have anything heavy I

can put in it to go travel I guess a ton

of water bottles which would work um but

it's one of the easiest ways because if

you don't have a rucking vest and you

don't want to spend a hundred bucks just

take a backpack and throw some books in

it yeah makes sense and it seems from a

evolutionary standpoint or or teic uh

perspective humans would do that right

Hunter gathers would go Forge for food

whether it's finding berries or nuts or

hunting um it's something that humans I

think of like when I was a you know

young mom and I had my kids a year apart

so I had like the year and a half and

the six month and I had a Baby Bjorn on

the front and I had a a big bigger

backpack thing that my older one could

sit on in the back and I'd go hike the

hills I was up in North Carolina I was

like all right this will work it was

like the ultimate wrecking totally that

is so cool I love that and plus you're

in you know encouraging your kids and

getting them in nature early on there

was just a a really interesting study in

lancit scientific report reports finding

time in nature is correlated with

physical health and reductions and all

these different diseases and we we kind

of discount that so one thing I

recommend for people is like yeah it's

great to do a treadmill you know if it's

snowy 5: in the morning but if you can

exercise Outdoors you feel so much

better you know I told you I was on that

boat trip with um the blands and the

Pearl mutter so David and Lee Pearl

mutter and Tim and I ran out we would do

hikes every day and literally I'm like

this is what they call Forest bathing it

was the most beautiful thing I ever seen

and we're walking through it and David's

telling us all the research as to why

this is so important for neurology Etc

but it I mean just the chlorophyll the

smells the sunlight it's amazing yeah

I'm a huge fan so and plus it's great

for kids I mean a lot of kids now just

spend up to six hours a day on screens

you know so encouraging our kids early

on to to you know put them throw them

outside yeah that's amazing uh I want to

get you know talking about kids I want

to get into hormones but also let's

finish up protein and Caron nutrients uh

something that you were telling me

offline and that how creatine really

helped you with jet lag we know creatine

helps with cellular energy production

during intense exercise but there's

other cognitive benefits um how did you

discover this so I you know when you

look back when someone says what would

you do differently if you had to do

differently I would be like I probably

would not have been in the Sun as much

and I would have started creatine really

early uh I used to train people at Gold

shim and Venice and carnine cre [ __ ]

was the dude's thing so I just never

even thought about using it till a

couple years ago and as I started to

unpack the research on I'm like this is

like every

woman should be on Creatine in my

opinion because if you look at it we

have less tissue stores and you know we

store the majority of creatin in our

muscle but it's a small percent goes to

our brain and it's amazing and so that's

why when you look at using it Beyond

just for um you know muscle performance

it's and bone health Etc if you want it

for your brain you got to push it a

little bit more too and women Tech

typically are not getting uh creatin

rich foods as much as men are as well so

you have that issue you know they can

get some from fish so I've never been a

good time zone a gesture and I talked

myself into this I was like you you know

can't do this and then I started to read

the research on Creatine and sleep

deprivation and it's incredible and so I

was like all right I'm going to give

this a try was talking to a creatine

researcher who goes this this is an

incredible thing to use for jetti so I

have my Baseline that I use and then I

just kick it up like I'll kick it up for

exercise and I'll kick it up for jetti

and I mean just I just if I get

someplace like when we went to Madrid we

took an overnight flight that was only

like 7 hours because it was from Boston

which is a terrible Redeye flight right

and so we get like four and a half hours

of sleep we get to Madrid and what I did

was I booked a dinner that night as a as

early as possible 8:00 which we were the

first ones there right um 2 and a half

miles from the hotel and I booked it and

paid for it so that we would lose the

money if we didn't go so we walked to

dinner so we knew when we landed that we

had to go walk to this dinner and we

were both like so we just hit ourselves

with a bunch of creatine and we were

fine it's I mean it is amazing the

difference you feel and it's this really

nice energy not like a caffeine type

it's it just feels like someone just

turned the light bulb up it's just

fantastic and you know I went from you

know being in London with you then we

went to Boston then we went to Madrid

then we went to Lisbon then we went to

Florida then we went to Seattle wow and

literally there were like you know two

days two days it was crazy shifting with

zero jetti that's impressive that's

never happened before by the way right

that's really impressive the studies

coming out on Creatine as it pertains to

sleep deprivation are really uh

interesting because if you look at like

word ret word recall cognitive

processing verbal Acuity all these

things uh after they intentionally

deprive sleep and subjects it's really

uh impressive compared to the control

group and I think that a lot of people

don't realize that it has a brain based

benefit because they think of creatine

and they associate it with analism and

they think well I I don't want to put on

that much muscle I don't want to lose my

hair it's like well [ __ ] is really

helping with energy production there is

zero on that hair loss thing like all

these crazy myths that just won't go

away I think if we get ourselves to a

nice Baseline of creatine that we should

always be on and then push it use it for

hard workouts for sleep deprivation

because you want to make sure you have

what you need in your brain but I mean

then there's the the postmenopausal

study that showed that women on

anti-depressants who use creatine had

way better effects than women who

weren't so I mean there's but you need

to have enough there's a small

percentage that's going to be in the

brain and it's not going to be in the

brain if you don't have enough tissue

stores of it in your muscle so you need

to make sure you're getting enough of it

and it's if you're a woman and you're

eating the typical female diet of you

know like the yogurt with the fruit on

top and the muffins and the that stuff

you're not getting it right for a

minimum effective dose would you say

like five grams a day if women are not

eating reg so if you're taking

monohydrate yes um and what I have women

doing who are taking monohydrate cuz

they're so freaked out about it is start

just start with a gram then go to two

then go to three just bump it up and

take it throughout the day so that

you're not like worried about it and

then make sure that you're also doing

bioimpedance because you want to have

more water in your muscles it's a good

thing it's a good thing so we all like

we've gotten so we're so weight focused

women are and you've we've got to start

to look at what that weight's made up of

like I was a teenager I was always the

heavy heavyweight person in school right

because I was always muscular and I was

always the tallest so I just got used to

being heavy and I remember wanting to be

a model and them telling me I had to

lose 20 pounds now I was probably 10%

body fat at the time and I tried to lose

10 my dance teacher thought I was

anorexic and I remember the time just

going you know what I'm just not a

skinny person I'm going to choose strong

yeah cuz you can't be both it's amazing

yeah I I agree with that mindset and and

not focusing on just this sweet spot of

120 lb or whatever it is there's like

this 120 lb so I had a client come to me

and she was 120 lb and she wanted to

lose 10 lb and she didn't need to lose

10 lb she was skinny fat you know she

needed to lose some fat she need to put

on some muscle fortunately I had a one

of the first um tanita $5,000 biome

pedon scales that was segmental that

told me everything and over the course

of the year she lost 10 lbs of fat and

put on 10 pounds of muscle and she

dropped like 2 inches off her waist she

went from 25% to 18% body fat she looked

like an entirely different person

and you can guess what I'm about to tell

you she gained weight no she didn't gain

any weight she stayed exactly the same

and she was upset no way of course gosh

that's wild these these stigmas Run Deep

and these biases

and well I I think thankfully that

perception is changing thanks to

CrossFit and you know Instagram and

people are seeing female athletes look

really feminine and good with more

muscle so I I think that's going to take

this old idea that women need to be very

petite and you what's interesting I

don't know where it even came from

because if you look at most men they're

not attracted to like skinny minis you

know so it's like where is it coming

from right forget them you know so you

know it's it's I don't know where that

ever came from and why it won't go away

yeah you know

it's challenging um but but I love the

aspect that you mentioned there and our

cells need water and that's what you

look at you know the ten unit or any bio

impedance and creatine helps tug water

into muscle tissue in particular and

that's a good thing yes but I think

people are so afraid of what the evil

water retention and and this but there's

actually some interesting research using

creatine in hot human environments and

helping athletic uh performance you know

stay at a high level in where we know

that temperature is inversely correlated

with like V2 Max and these proxies of

athleticism so it's actually a good

thing the water retention should be I

mean that that's part of what makes you

U part of its strength enhancing benefit

so I'm glad you're helping to dispel

that myth that well if creatine helps

you retain more water in your cells

you're going to be more hydrated not the

opposite right which is ultimately going

to be better for body comp losing fat

having better cortisol levels like your

body does not like being dehydrated

right uh another kind of nut nutrient

that you've been talking about for a

long time is carnitine uh what do you

think about cartine for fat loss and

this is there any yeah you know it was

one of the first things that I learned

about early on because of our mutual

friend Robert Cray and at the time was

like okay this was going to be the

miracle you know I remember I think the

book was called The cartin Miracle

wasn't that the book you read the car um

I think it's very interesting to look

at uh organic acid tests

and see if this is something that could

help you or not now I've used it a lot

for brain nutrition doing acety Al

carnitine but it just really depends on

if someone needs it or not and I I

didn't find it to be this miracle that

someone took carnitine all of a sudden

they're dropping body fat it's like I

wish it I wish it was the case I do feel

like it helps with energy and especially

brain energy um but again it's going to

depend on someone's diet I agree

speaking of Robert um he passed away

pretty early what you knew him um I went

to several of his seminars back in

Boulder and things like that um did you

know that he had symptoms of colon

cancer like so I still remember the

phone call I got from him because he

goes I've just got such bad adrenal

fatigue and I go I don't that doesn't

sound like adrenal fatigue and my guess

is having been around um you know my dad

died of cancer and had a cough he was a

smoker and had a cough for years we're

like did you check on the cough you know

and another girlfriend who had really

bad skin cancer with this huge mole

we're like did you check the mole and

you know we'll never know but my guess

is that was a way to put your head in

the sand and kind of go this must be

this right um although it's so unusual

you still look and go how does a healthy

40-year-old have colon cancer like that

is just such a Bizarro thing um and you

wouldn't think to check unless you had

the symptoms of that so he just

I don't know you know it's still it's

still one of those head scratchers some

people speculate but he he was really

enthusiastic about five methyl tet

hydrolate and folinic acid and this that

perhaps overdoing that he drove a

pathway I don't know I I just wanted to

talk to you about you know what's

interesting um I am not as excited about

supplements in general as I used to be I

don't know where you stand with this but

I used to be like every time I go to

another conference I'm like another

thing you know um and I've gotten I've

really kind of hit the brakes on a lot

of it where I still think like the

foundational things we should look at is

do an omega-3 index optimize your

omega-3 um do a vitamin D3 test optimize

your vitamin D3 and K and get your

magnesium dialed those are like my

foundational things and then beyond that

I'll look at more things like

electrolytes and creatine and essential

amino acids and collagen um I do I do

love me my mitop pure from timeline and

qualia Celtics those those are the other

ones but I am not anywhere where I used

to be with like taking so excessive

amount of supplements uhuh not even a

multi do you take a multi ever I don't

take a multi um I've done and it's

probably time to do another organic

acids test and generally the only thing

I ever find that I need there is you

know hit myself with some more be

but than that I'm usually we always fine

um and now that I've got mitap Pure I'm

not even taking coq1 like I used to so

remind me what's in the mitop pure mitop

pure is uthan a okay it's that um it's

that compound that we should be able to

make in our guts if we were eating a lot

of cranberries and walnuts and we're the

40% of the people that can but the cool

thing with with it and you know when I

look at that in the calics as we age

we're breaking down more than we're

building up one of the things that tends

to slow down is our ability to get rid

of these damaged cells so with timelines

MIT ofure they it's mitophagy so it's

helping you clear out recycle regenerate

your mitochondria so big thing for aging

and then with the Celtics they have nine

different types of senolytics to clear

out those zombie cells so I look at

those things and go that's the stuff I

want to make sure of like I'm building

but I want to get rid of the trash too

totally that's key but that's why I love

exercise yeah which everyone talks about

like let's do intermittent fasting for

autophagy I go just exercise like

exercise it's really that's a that's

been a hard one for me CU I I started

out making a lot of videos on fasting

although I did exercise at the same time

but the research was quite appealing but

when I started to dive into autophagy as

it's related to exercise and part of the

adaptations from exercise is autophagy

like wow this is a way better mechanism

to clear the soal and it's predictable

cuz I'm still wondering how we know when

a really starts and I've never seen a

clear answer on this well you have to

look at the cellular uh expression of

autophagy related proteins but speak to

that wouldn't it be different for

everybody like well there was one study

that I love to share and we'll just

quickly highlight it uh sedentary

controls versus people who were

physically active and they looked they

ascertained physical fitness by V2 Max

so they stratified people who were fit

based on their based upon their age

related V2 Max people who had really low

V2 Maxes because they did not exercise

after 36 hours of fasting still didn't

hit the same level of autophagy compared

to just 18 hours of fasting for people

who were fit so it's like look if you

want to get the most out of your fast

you need to be fit and train regularly

well and plus you'd want to be fit in

training so you're not losing muscle

during your fast so yes yikes yeah so

that's I think a message that hopefully

after another exercise for the win right

I mean like let's just where's the bad

stuff on it it's hard to come by it's

hard to come by yeah you know it takes

effort but that's the you know what in

life if you do hard things then you can

do hard things and you're going to get

faced with hard things and so the more

you can train for those hard things the

easier they all get like I I look at

this and I go you know the less you do

the less you can do but the more you do

the more you can do so exercise is a

very controlled way for you to do hard

things because I I loved that book um

Michael Easter's Comfort crisis and what

that next one is was that he did but

it's so true it's like we just get more

and more and more comfortable you look

at what's happening with our health and

a lot of it's because of us being so

comfortable it's a great point and

speaking of that what about son and C

plunges where do you follow with thermal

stress oh so we have at the house I'm

not a fan of biohacking MH I'm a fan of

good recovery like to me I look at it

and go if you're eating correctly and

exercising well and sleeping well like I

don't think we should hack those things

you know get all that stuff dialed and

then if there's something you want to

work on you know take a shortcut but you

can't shortcut the basics um what we did

at home was we created a a I have an

amazing gym at home and then we took

what was our gym and we turned it into a

recovery room so we have a big sunlight

in sauna that's our evening sauna and

then we have a small fast heat sauna

that goes up to 180° so in the morning

we can go in there do that and then go

get in the cold plunge and then we have

the ju big panel of red lights and then

I go stand in front of the red lights of

course I have to be home to do that so

that's the challenge in my perfect world

I would be doing that you know three to

four times a week um the reality is like

I've been home a week the whole summer

so but it's fine you're out in nature

you're in Europe I mean you got to look

it it was well worth it so but I'm a big

fan of that I'm really intrigued with

this search showing saa's helping with

um anabolism and doing them after you've

resistance trained I have not done that

one yet I what I'll do is I'll get up in

the morning do my my sauna the hot sauna

and then get into the cold before I go

so I don't block any muscle protein

synthesis and then at night we'll watch

that's our Netflix you want to watch

Netflix you got to get in the sauna

that's our rle that's awesome that's a

really good trade-off yeah cuz otherwise

you're flopped on the couch I'm like at

night I want I either want us out

walking or an the we got to do something

yeah right that's key and the photo bi

modulation with like the ju and these

red lights and infrared lights and so

forth what have you noticed with that so

I just started with a face one since I

can't travel with the big red one we did

get when we were in London we met a guy

who has this wraparound red light

company so we brought that with us for

Tim because he's getting a hip

replacement so we have an ice machine we

have the wraparound red um and a bunch

of supplements

I don't know I just don't know what it's

doing

um and I don't know if it's just I

haven't been consistent but I can't tell

yeah like I can tell like sauna you know

you're like oh boy and and cold you know

red light is the one where I I'm there

for 12 minutes and I'm like you know

watching watching you on YouTube um

entertaining myself going I hope this is

doing something but I can't tell can you

no I so I did a little experiment in

2017 when I got the juv light they sent

one to me and I wanted to figure some

things out and i' had been hearing from

Ben Greenfield that it increases

testosterone so I ran my Baseline

testosterone levels and then put it you

know near my general for 10 minutes a

day and I did see a significant increase

in free in total test really so that to

me was pretty how long did it take to

get that so that was about uh 60 days so

I did every day um 10 minutes I would

just stand in front of a naked basically

um but that was pretty impressive that's

really imp like the guys when they came

over to the house said it could you know

restore my thyroid function I was like

Wow but I would have to be in front of

it for three you know and that's what I

haven't managed to pull off as really

being in front of it enough days in a

row to be able to see a thing so it an

interesting thing happened when we went

we went to Korea last summer on the way

to Bali and we were with do you know an

Shippy Dr an Shippy so Ann's like I want

to go to the jins sing Museum I'm

thinking really anyway you have to have

an appointment to go it's a whole thing

we get there it's the state run uh

ginsing Museum and they have this

special six-year-old black root ginsing

they do not export somehow we end up

with a year supply for all of us of

ginsing thousands of dollars and a

couple months into this Tim gets his

testosterone levels back and I get my my

hormone levels back estrogen

testosterone

thyroid they're all high and I'm like

why haven't changed anything in fact I'd

had a hysterectomy and I'm like if

anything I had my intest because like I

probably have to crank things up no had

to cut them down and I was then at a

lecture that Chris shade was doing

talking about um improving hormone

receptor sensitivity now I knew this for

insulin but I don't know why I ever

never thought about it for anything else

and he was talking about ginsing and I

went oh my gosh that's what happened wow

we just improved our hormone re receptor

sensitivity and we were able to lower

all of our hormones that's amazing

that's profound yeah was this in Soul

there was isn't that beautiful so was

amazing I loved it I loved the food that

that whatever that steak was that's like

you know better than wagu that we like

we went for dinner one night and and

chiy was like we need to come here every

night I'm like that was a $200 steak an

right yeah but there's kimchi with every

meal before and after yeah oh the food

like the food it just shows you how when

you go to these countries and they

always have something pickled there's

always some fermented food there you

know and it's just nothing I grew up

with so the problem is I hate fermented

food except for wine because I didn't

grow up with it and it's like oh yeah

it's a little bitter or smelly so with

regards to the Gins sing that's an

amazing tip do you still supplement with

ginsing in fact we just started to run

out of it and Tim it turns out once

you're on the list they'll ship it to

you so we just ordered another couple

thousand dollars of this black jins sing

it's it's amazing yeah I mean amazing so

you know those are different things that

I'm looking at now is if you could use

something that helps restore insulin or

hormone receptor

sensitivity wow it makes a lot of sense

I mean with all the research coming out

on microplastics and how they're getting

into our tissues and augmenting hormones

and stuff like that that that seems like

a really nice thing you just wonder how

much of that we could get out with

consistent infrared sauna use like yeah

you know I just feel like every house

needs a sauna like this this is such a

big deal and then you look at places I

don't know if you've been to Iceland or

one of my favorite places on the planet

and you know they're one of the happiest

countries there's the top four of the

happiest healthiest countries they all

spa and it's their regular stuff that

they coal plunge and do saunas and

that's just and have those thermal baths

and it's just part of what they do every

day yeah I mean it's really great for

socialization too especially in the

winter it's like what else are you going

to do drink watch football or go the and

do Co plunges Ian it's a great which

would be better Wonder that's wild um

getting back to hormones that's one

thing I wanted to address with you I've

personally noticed in my 40s DHEA to be

pretty effective um with hormones are

you doing there's um transdermals creams

there's pellets what have you found to

be effective first of all I think that

um I'm I'm so relieved that the

information is out even though it's

still people are still afraid but at

least the information's out on that

silly women's health initiative and I

mean it really devastated a whole

generation of women however we now have

doctors I don't know if you know Dr

Feliz gers she is amazing 70-year-old

woman who is basically putting women who

were in that Lost Generation on hormones

in their 60s and their 70s because it

was always like oh you can't start if

you missed the window it's like would no

you can um you going to be able to undo

some of the loss of bone and the

cardiovascular you know stuff that's

can't unfry an egg but you can still get

a lot of benefits I was fortunate in

that I was teaching this course called

overcoming weight loss resistance and

one of the things in the course was you

know thyroid issues and another thing

was sex hormone

imbalances well I noticed the minute my

thyroid went down and I remember going

because my TSH would always be around

one and all of a sudden it jumps to 2.2

which would be normal range except for

for me all the side effects and so I

started supplementing with that in my

40s but then when my son got hit I went

into like immediate like metabolic

crisis with my hormones and I I started

using creams to begin with I do not like

creams I think that um and I'm not a fan

of pellets because if you don't have the

right dose you're stuck yeah so you know

and when you really look at

hormones it once a woman's through

menopause it's so much easier as they're

going through the last thing you'd want

to do is get stuck with the dose because

you are on a you know you're basically

on a paddle board out in the middle of

the ocean and sometimes it's calm and

sometimes it's absolutely crazy and

you've got to be able to adjust things

as needed and so I think oral

progesterone um I love the patches for

estrad and then I use I use shots of

testosterone I found that when I used

the cream it just it it worked too much

I was like this is what a guy feels like

and then it stopped working

um but then I can titrate these easily

and change them now they're really

stable after but there was quite a while

in there where I was shifting things

when I first started using hormones I

was able to do most of my estrogen

through testosterone because

testosterone was the first one that

started to drop you know but this is

where working with a good functional

doctor and also kind of knowing where

your levels were like if you really look

at this we should be identifying levels

in your 30s you know early 30s maybe 20s

so you really see where you feel best

and then you should be working with your

thyroid and your adrenals to really

optimize those so that by the time you

need hormones you need the least amount

right and you're doing as much as you

possibly can like if you're completely

stressed out you're going to have a

problem you got to fix that first you

can't just Band-Aid these things with

hormones right but on the other hand

take your hormones I agree yeah

especially women after menopause um yeah

you'll lose your brain you'll lose your

bones you'll lose your heart like you

look at the risks for women and now this

research coming out showing that you

probably have a lower risk of breast

cancer when you're taking hormones but

it's really taking them correctly right

and not using the hormone like synthetic

products that M your medicine for on

people that's the crazy thing to me you

know you you women will say well I'm on

progesterone and it's like a synthetic

progestin yeah it's like why would you

do that it's it's a really inexpensive

easy oral compounded

yeah thing like that's not hard and have

you found that to help with sleep in

particular so I am not a good person

with progesterone I feel like and this

is where everyone has to be different

like I will use I use it a week out of

the month progesterone makes me break

out cry and gain weight when you look at

steady state elevated progesterone the

only time that you've got steady state

elevated progesterone is when you're

pregnant the minute I got pregnant with

my kids I gained 12 pounds I wanted to

cry like and I can count on one hand the

amount of times that I cry like I just

don't cry if I'm pregnant or I have too

much progesterone I'll sit and cry and

won eat chocolate chip

cookies so you got to know yourself

right I'm not someone that does well

with progesterone so I cycle it very

carefully um but you know if you look at

it it's if you're high progesterone low

estrogen that will be insulin resistance

okay so address that first well I mean

work with a really good functional

medicine doctor who understands the

lifestyle side of this I mean look at

the gut your gut better be working well

so you can detoxify these hormones too

right so you want to make sure you've

got your gut working well you've got

your your stress managed you're dealing

with your adrenals your thyroid dialed

in if your thyroid is not dialed in

you're not going to be able to balance

your hormones then you start dosing

these things and I really feel like it's

the least amount you need you know the

least amount you need to get to where

you want to be at Baseline which is your

cardiovascular markers look great I

remember I was working in Palm Desert

and and I would see the doctors would

send me all of their clients all their

patients with their labs and I could

tell before I even would look at what

they were taking if they were on

hormones or not because if they were

postmenopausal not on hormones elevated

LDL elevated uh insulin elevated

inflammatory markers um you know because

you look at estrogen it's going to help

you build muscle it's going to reduce

inflammation super important for insulin

sensitivity so that's where we've they'

you've got got to look at this and go

okay I've got to how how's my bone

mineral density something we should be

testing girls and their teens and they

20s I'm not sure why we wait till the

the egg is scrambled and then go oh

shoot you know you've got Minal through

urine oh no so bone meral density is

aexa okay yeah it's aexa so you know

because girls are going to build their

bone their teens early 20s that's those

are prime bone that's like when you

really look at it the most important

thing that you could have with a teenage

daughter is to get her into resistance

training get her into things that build

her bone build her

muscle build that mitochondria right um

and yet it's not it's not happening yeah

hopefully it's happening now but yeah

people are waking up to that I mean part

of it is logistically gyms I mean my

daughter's 12 I can't bring her to the

gym I used to sneak her into one gym but

their insurance waiver doesn't allow

them to train until they're 14 what it's

so I still remember back in the day that

you were not supposed to lift weights if

you were a little kid and I go okay but

we're doing all of this gymnastics yeah

like we're doing push-ups and pull-ups

and jumps so what's the difference right

so wow that's just too bad yeah maybe

that will change uh over time that

that's wild but I want to get back to

you said something about your

testosterone how that dropped first is

that a universal phenomenon or do do you

think that's just unique to your I think

that's these things are that were all

snowflakes for a lot of people the first

thing that drops is progesterone that's

why you'll see women have trouble

sleeping they get anxious but if they

just really Crank That and estrogen's

down it'll go down more so that's why

you really got to just work with someone

and get this dialed and it has to be you

have to actively participate because

until you get to that point where it's

smooth sailing you're postmenopausal

which is the greatest thing ever but

until you get there things are going to

shift you're going to be adapting you're

going to be moving things around and

that's really be more based on your

symptoms and you just have to become

aware like I discovered you know I

couldn't recover from the gym and I

don't know if you've listened to

anything of Dr Vonda Wright She's an

amazing uh orthopedic surgeon who's

who's talking about the muscular

skeletal symptoms of

menopause and for me I would go to the

gym and go I can't recover couldn't

recover was always feeling a little

inflamed you know same workout couldn't

pull it off and and was on estrogen I

just had to kick it up a little bit so

that was both that the estrogen and the

testosterone was affecting the recovery

or you think it was more it

estrogen we all think of testosterone as

this muscle building anabolic uh

supplement for women or hormone for

women estrogen we need estrogen to build

muscle that is sort of paradoxical to

the common wisdom I think most people

would not think that estrogen is so

protective in that way for women yeah it

is I mean testosterone matters but

estrogen really matters amazing and your

goat what you found to be most effective

is a patch for estrogen specifically

easy so easy to use and is that a triest

or no it's

estrad wow yeah estrad I've been using

something do you know who Karen Martell

is um she makes a really great estral

estr cream but it's more for your skin

you know it's great for your skin okay

like that's the other place that women

will start to notice so it's just

topical it's not it's not going to be

enough to make a difference um I don't

think triest is used in EST back in the

day a lot of people were doing bias but

I think estral is really because estral

is so weak I mean it's a great thing to

use on your skin but it's not going to

really affect anything it's really Ester

dial is the big mover one wow yeah JJ

you're a wealth of knowledge part of

this how you've accumulated so much

knowledge as you've been in this space

for a long time but your network just

I'm just still here aming um we've

talked we've covered a lot of ground

from muscle protein resistance training

you know hormones um you've interviewed

a lot of people and have had many people

speak at your mind share Summit which is

amazing as well what are what's like the

biggest thing that you've learned you

know and I know that's a broad statement

but maybe or something that you've had

to unlearn throughout this journey where

you're like gosh I just wish more people

would you know I wish from the beginning

I'd been more critically

openminded and not thought in

absolutes um you know I that's where I'd

say I started I was like this is the way

I remember when I was on Dr Phil there

was this video where I said never never

never do cardio before

weights and now we know it's like some

people like that I'm like you know just

like do a faceted workout it's like

there are no absolutes like there just

there are very few absolutes in life and

for so much of this the most important

we we tend to miss the big picture cuz

we're so concerned about did we eat

within our fasting window did this break

the fast is that a dirty fast can I

should I eat before I work out do I need

to have that protein shake right after

like all this ridiculous stuff it's like

don't major in the minors you know if

you focus on the big things like really

looking at what you eat and getting

really clear on that and making sure

you're getting the protein making sure

you're getting the fiber and the

phytonutrients and then being well

hydrated and adding in those supplements

that that we tend to be deficient in

that will make a difference and then

moving more and then doing that

resistance training and adding in some

balance and adding in some velocity you

know and making sure you're recovering

well and restoring and then hanging out

with cool people yeah you know it's like

those are the things and I love uh I

love looking at all the stuff that Brian

Johnson's doing because here he is

spending $2 million a year to biohack

his body and all of a sudden you go and

what are the most important things

eating and sleeping and friends like

yeah the Basics right yeah they're not

sexy but boy they work right have you

met him no yeah I don't know him either

um yeah it's interesting you know the I

did that um the pheno age test through

uh true true Health Diagnostics I

haven't gotten the results back yet but

that's have you been looking at this

this epigenetic age so I think that Dr

Reika did that test on

me and I'm trying to remember because

there was one issue in it that was like

uh oh you know um I just listened to

Austin pearlmutter just did an amazing

longevity talk for big bold Health that

I just listened to where he was talking

about all the different ways because

they've been doing testing now to see

what Himalayan Tarter buckwheat can do

turns out it acts a lot like uh it's a

glp1 Agonist because uh of the bids and

yeah which is pretty pretty interesting

um but I've got to go back and look at I

really I haven't been focusing as much

on that because I look at this and

go right now I like to pick one thing at

a time and work on it yeah and I think

that that book Gary Keller wrote the one

thing is probably like the book I should

read every day just focus on the one

thing one for for a year it was all

meditation and everything I could do to

help with my adrenals right now I'm

really focused on BO2 Max nice that's

like that's why I was talking about okay

I got to be careful because I'll do

weight training all day long but I

really need to get in there and do power

and sprinting so I got a Sprint

treadmill at home nice yes cuz when I

saw that Meme I'm like that will not be

me I will be sprinting um but I think

you know if you look at all these things

work with someone prioritize out of out

of those big pillars of of fuel and

recover and move where's the first focus

focus there nail it build on it go to

the next thing you know that's smart I

do see I mean that's the beauty of the

internet is we can you know disseminate

all this information the downside is

there's so many you know new rabbits to

Chase and it's hard for people to stay

focus on one thing well and the other

downside is um and I was just having

this conversation with Jeff Bland

because I was like you know it's so

frustrating because I know if I took a

stand and said outrageous things that

I'd be super way more popular right and

I can't do it I can't do it I just can't

do it so you know that's the other

challenge with the Internet is quite

often the people that have the loudest

voices are saying the most ridiculous

things you know the most polarizing

things and you know the very clear

things that make a difference aren't so

sexy it it is the it's more the

controversial things that get the the

algorithms attention in the comments on

both sides that's wild but as you said I

think that um majoring in the majors and

and not focusing on on the minutia um

the foundations really move the pendulum

yeah and what's great is most of that

stuff doesn't cost a lot of money it

does take time

and I had a great Robert cran early on

he said if you don't have time make time

yeah and I mean that's there's just you

really have to you can't you can't hack

exercise you're not going to be able to

do it in five minutes a week that's

absolutely ridiculous yeah uh yeah I

have comments on that but we'll talk

about that later nor can you hack sleep

yes so you know that there is all this

poly physic sleep stuff and people like

getting up for two hours and then going

back to B yeah that seems crazy to me

yeah I remember hearing oh but that's

what we used to do we'd get up midnight

I'm like really huh I know how I sleep

best yeah so and it's not getting up at

midnight for 2 hours to eat and do

whatever and then go back to sleep so

yeah JJ really appreciate you coming on

the show and sharing great wisdom if if

folks want to connect with you what's

the best way to do that JJ virgin.com

and I've got well beyond 40 that you

were a guest on so that was a lot of fun

that was super cool that I ran into at

that event although we run into each

other now at a lot of events so it's

awesome appreciate your work and thanks

again for um offering you know clinical

rounds in these different conversations

a long time ago because you really

helped shape my mindset in nutrition uh

and my career development so thank you

for that well and thank you for then

taking that out there and doing amazing

things like your YouTube channel is

fabulous I absolutely love it so big fan

big subscriber everybody should

subscribe to that thank you so much