Writing Code vs. Drag and Drop for Website Building

Summary

In this engaging conversation, web designer Brad Hussey interviews Adrian from the Codex Community YouTube channel about the impact of no-code tools on the development industry. They discuss how no-code platforms are evolving, potentially reducing development time and enabling collaboration between designers and developers. Adrian shares his experience using no-code tools and asserts that while these tools increase accessibility, they do not replace the need for developers. Instead, they transform the role of developers, emphasizing the importance of a developer mindset even when utilizing no-code solutions.

Takeaways

• 🌐 The discussion is about the impact of no-code tools on web development and the roles of designers and developers.
• 🤖 No-code tools are evolving, making it easier for non-developers to build websites, but they are not replacing developers.
• 🔧 Developers create no-code tools, and these tools are designed to simplify and speed up the web development process.
• 🚀 No-code tools allow for faster prototyping and development, freeing up time for more complex features and backend work.
• 🎨 Designers and developers can collaborate more effectively with no-code tools, enhancing the overall project workflow.
• 🔄 No-code platforms are still in their early stages and have limitations, but they are improving over time.
• 🛠️ While coding offers complete control and customization, it also comes with the risk of breaking the website with errors.
• 🎯 The use of no-code tools can lead to more democratized and accessible web development, benefiting both technical and non-technical individuals.
• 🌟 No-code tools can help agencies and companies to speed up their development process and allocate resources more efficiently.
• 🔗 The interviewee, Adrian, runs the Codex Community YouTube channel, where he explores the changing landscape of web development.
• 📈 Adrian is also working on a pricing calculator using both no-code and coding tools, to help freelancers determine their rates.

Q & A

What is the main topic of discussion between Brad Hussey and Adrian?

The main topic of discussion is the impact of no-code tools on web development and the roles of designers and developers.

What does Adrian think about the role of no-code tools in replacing front-end developers?

Adrian believes that no-code tools are not replacing developers, but rather they are simplifying the process of building websites and allowing developers to focus on more complex tasks.

How does Adrian view the evolution of web development tools?

Adrian sees the evolution as a progression from hand-coding to using frameworks and modules, and now to no-code tools that further simplify the process, without replacing the need for a developer's mindset.

What is the advantage of no-code tools for designers and creatives?

No-code tools empower designers and creatives by giving them the ability to build and update websites without needing to learn code, thus democratizing the web development process.

How does Adrian describe the role of developers in the context of no-code tools?

Adrian suggests that developers are the ones who create no-code tools, and their role is to think through the logic and processes that these tools will automate, maintaining the 'if this, then that' mindset which is at the core of development.

What opportunities does Adrian see no-code bringing to app developers?

Adrian sees no-code tools allowing app developers to build and prototype ideas more quickly, freeing up time to work on advanced features and improving overall efficiency.

What is the current limitation of no-code tools according to Adrian?

Adrian mentions that no-code tools are still in their early stages and come with certain limitations, such as the need to follow specific paradigms for achieving good results like responsive design.

How does the collaboration between designers and developers change with no-code tools?

No-code tools facilitate more collaboration between designers and developers, as they allow both parties to work on the same project seamlessly, with designers being able to hand off work to developers or even implement some code themselves.

What is Adrian's perspective on the future of no-code tools?

Adrian believes that no-code tools will continue to improve and become more accessible, allowing for the creation of complex applications without the need for deep coding knowledge, but still requiring a developer mindset for advanced tasks.

What are the general pros and cons of using no-code tools versus coding?

The pros of no-code tools include faster development times and ease of use, while the cons are their current limitations and the need for a structured approach. Coding offers more flexibility and customization but comes with a steeper learning curve and potential for errors.

How can people learn more about Adrian's work and thoughts on web development?

People can learn more about Adrian's work by visiting his YouTube channel, Codex Community, where he shares insights on the changing landscape of web development and demonstrates the use of both no-code and coding tools.

Outlines

00:00

🌐 Introduction and Discussion on No-Code

The video begins with host Brad Hussey introducing himself and the guest, Adrian from Codex Community. The conversation quickly pivots to discussing the concept of 'no code' and its impact on web development. Adrian shares his thoughts on whether no-code tools are replacing front-end developers, arguing that these tools are more about simplifying the process rather than replacing the developer role. He emphasizes that developers are needed to build these no-code tools and that the core logic and design thinking remain essential.

05:01

💡 The Role of Developers in No-Code

In this paragraph, Adrian and Brad delve deeper into the role of developers in the no-code movement. They discuss how no-code platforms empower developers by saving time on routine tasks, allowing them to focus on more complex and innovative features. Adrian shares his experiences, noting that tasks which took weeks to code can now be achieved in days, giving developers more time for creative endeavors. The conversation highlights the collaborative nature of no-code, enabling designers and developers to work more closely on projects.

10:03

🚀 The Evolution of No-Code and Its Impact

Adrian and Brad continue their discussion by exploring the evolution of no-code and its potential impact on the industry. Adrian observes a shift towards microservices and APIs, indicating a trend towards more accessible and simplified coding processes. He predicts that as no-code tools improve, they will enable the creation of more sophisticated applications without the need for deep coding knowledge. However, he also notes that specialized developers will still be necessary for building and maintaining these no-code systems.

15:04

🤔 Pros and Cons of No-Code vs Traditional Coding

The conversation concludes with a discussion on the pros and cons of using no-code tools versus traditional coding methods. Adrian outlines the benefits of no-code, such as ease of use and speed of development, while also acknowledging its limitations, like the need for a structured approach for responsive design. He contrasts this with the flexibility and customization offered by traditional coding, but also the risks and complexities involved. The discussion ends on a positive note, with both hosts agreeing that no-code is democratizing web development and creating opportunities for a wider range of individuals to contribute to the digital landscape.

🙌 Closing Remarks and Call to Action

In the final part of the video, Adrian shares more about his work and invites viewers to check out his YouTube channel, Codex Community, for more insights into the changing landscape of web development. Brad thanks Adrian for his valuable insights and encourages viewers to like the video, subscribe to Adrian's channel, and engage with the content. The video ends on a high note, with a call to action for viewers to join the community and continue the conversation on no-code and its potential impact on the future of web development.

Keywords

💡Creative X

Creative X is the name of the show or podcast where the conversation is taking place. It is a platform where individuals from various fields, particularly those related to web design and development, come to discuss their experiences and insights. In this context, the show is hosting a discussion about 'no code' versus 'code' development.

💡Web Designer

A web designer is a professional who designs the visual and user experience aspects of a website or web application. They are responsible for the layout, color schemes, typography, and the overall look and feel of the site. In the transcript, Brad Hussey introduces himself as a web designer from Canada.

💡Codex Community

Codex Community is a YouTube channel run by Adrian, the guest in the transcript. The channel focuses on content related to web development and coding, aiming to educate and inform viewers about the latest trends and tools in the industry.

💡No Code

No Code refers to the development approach where websites or applications are built using tools and platforms that do not require traditional programming languages or coding skills. This allows non-developers to create functional web applications through drag-and-drop interfaces and pre-built modules.

💡Front-End Developer

A front-end developer is a web developer who specializes in the design and development of the user interface and user experience of a website or application. They work with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript to create the visual aspects and interactive elements that users see and interact with.

💡Drag and Drop

Drag and drop is a user interface technique that allows users to move items from one place to another by clicking and dragging the item with a mouse or other pointing device and then releasing it in the desired location. In the context of web development, this term is often associated with 'no code' platforms that enable users to build websites by dragging and dropping pre-designed elements onto a page.

💡Time Efficiency

Time efficiency refers to the ability to complete tasks in the least amount of time while maintaining quality. In the context of the conversation, it highlights how 'no code' tools can expedite the development process, allowing developers and designers to create and launch projects more quickly.

💡Collaboration

Collaboration is the act of working together with others to achieve a common goal. In the transcript, it refers to the improved teamwork between designers and developers, as 'no code' tools enable both parties to contribute more effectively to the project without being limited by their technical skills.

💡Microservices

Microservices is an architectural style for developing software applications that structures an application as a collection of loosely coupled services. Each service runs a unique process and communicates through a defined protocol over a network. In the context of the discussion, microservices are mentioned as part of the evolving landscape where 'no code' tools are being integrated into backend services.

💡Artificial Intelligence (AI)

Artificial Intelligence refers to the simulation of human intelligence in machines that are programmed to think like humans and mimic their actions. In the transcript, AI is mentioned in the context of 'no code' tools that allow users to integrate AI components into their websites or applications without having to understand the underlying complex coding.

💡Browser Compatibility

Browser compatibility refers to the ability of a website or web application to function correctly and consistently across different web browsers. It ensures that all users have a uniform experience regardless of the browser they use to access the site. The discussion highlights the benefits of 'no code' tools in handling browser compatibility issues automatically.

Highlights

Brad Hussey, a web designer from Canada, hosts a discussion on the impact of no-code tools on web development.

Guest Adrian from Codex Community shares insights on no-code versus code from the perspective of a developer and a Commonwealth member.

No-code tools are seen as the next evolution in website building, simplifying the process and making it more accessible.

Developers are not being replaced by no-code; instead, the tools they build are empowering others to create without coding.

The role of intermediaries, such as those who bridge design and development, may be changing due to the rise of no-code platforms.

No-code tools are not just for designers and agencies; they also offer new opportunities for app developers.

No-code platforms can significantly reduce development time, allowing for more focus on complex features and creative aspects.

The future of no-code might involve less need for deep coding knowledge, with more simplified integrations and interfaces.

Despite the rise of no-code, there will always be a need for developers to build and maintain these tools and systems.

Collaboration between designers and developers is enhanced by no-code tools, leading to a more integrated approach to project development.

No-code tools can democratize web development, allowing non-technical individuals to create solutions and contribute to the digital landscape.

The early days of no-code are akin to the early web, with a lot of potential for growth and improvement.

While coding offers ultimate control and customization, no-code ensures compatibility and reduces the risk of breaking the site.

The pros and cons of no-code and code routes are discussed, highlighting the balance between ease of use and the flexibility of coding.

Adrian's YouTube channel, Codex Community, explores the changing landscape of development work and offers practical insights.

The conversation concludes with encouragement for developers and a call for embracing the opportunities created by no-code advancements.

Transcripts

Gooey.

G'Day, friends,

welcome to Creative X.

My name is Brad Hussey

and I'm a web designer from Canada.

Our guest today,

however, is not from Canada,

although from the Commonwealth

he is in fact from Down Under.

His name is Adrian

and he runs a YouTube

channel called Codex Community.

So you're going to

want to check that out,

but not yet,

because I was able to convince him

to stay up

super late to have a few minute

chat with me

about no code versus code.

All right, let's go.

Adrian, how's it going, man?

Yeah, it's going well.

It's a little bit

late here in Western Australia,

but you know,

that's timezones for you.

Yeah, totally. I appreciate.

So it's pretty early for me.

I mean, it's

the beginning of my work day,

but still like it's

I know we're like right

at the end of your your day here.

So I appreciate you

staying up

to hang out

and chat for a little bit.

I'm a developer. That's what we do.

We just stay up

till the late night right through.

It's like the

that's the the hour of the coder.

Speaking of

that, no code, as we call it now.

So building sites

without code, using all the cool

tools and automations

and drag and drop things

that we have

accessible to us today.

Do you think that no code

is replacing the front

end developer

or what are your thoughts on that?

So I think

it's almost like the next step

of how you build a website.

In the past

we had like

we would build out the website

with just code,

then we'd

maybe get bootstrap

or something on top

that we would still use the code,

but we'd have something on top

to make it a little bit easier.

Then we'd have importing modules

or react

that would make it simpler again.

And now we've taken the step

further where we've got something

taken care of all that,

and we just dragging

and dropping things in

and in the background.

We still have all that manual code,

we still have all those plugins

and everything, and it's basically

just removing the difficulties

of having to do that yourself

and giving you a nice, gooey

interface to do what

you would normally

have to write out

all the code with. Right.

My thoughts here

is that just I'm curious.

I don't think that no code

is replacing the developer at all

because who builds no code tools?

Obviously developers.

But I wonder

if that intermediary role

of like

someone who kind of communicates

design and development

like are they being replaced

or are they actually the ones

who let's say if I go back in time,

the designer

would give me a design,

I would build that an editor X

and then the developer would take,

you know, any complexities

hooking in an API

using JavaScript within the Velo

developer tools.

Maybe that's how that would work

rather than me like a HTML, css

as php.

Like maybe it wouldn't be that.

Nothing ever really

replaces the developer.

Not, you know, tools like we've had

in the past

that started

playing around with drag and drop.

Not I.

Nothing like that.

At the end of the day,

you still have one mindset of work

that is done by designers

where there are

graphically creating interfaces,

and one type of work

for the creation of the website,

which is often the developers.

I think that the change

now is that some of

the difficulties of

creating those sites

are just now simplified.

So like the developers can drag

and drop these things in

but still have

the tools in the back

where they can add

in like Velo, a script or whatever

they want, or APIs

to hook in that data.

And at some level

you're always going to need that.

I've seen that even

backend services

now are

starting to have no code tools

where you can

basically no code your database

and your API

and then hook it up to,

you know, code frontend.

And like it essentially means

that at most levels

if you know what you're doing

then you can build a

whole ecosystem out.

But that mindset

that you need to do

it is still a developer mindset.

Interesting.

I would agree.

It's like the developer is less

the tools.

Like if we

think as a developer

I am defined

by the programing languages

that I write,

I think that would be

the wrong way of seeing it.

Because what happens

when inevitably

that programing language

is deprecated

or it's just no longer used?

Like, let me give you an analogy.

Imagine that a developer

is like someone doing gardening

and first you're using your hands

and you're like digging through.

And then suddenly you find

you have a shovel

and you're get better at gardening.

And then eventually

you get this monstrous machine

that does everything for you.

But at the end of the day,

you're still gardening

and that's what you enjoy doing.

Yes, exactly.

And then if you have more automated

tools or,

let's say, self-watering systems

that uses

solar energy, like

is it replacing automation?

Exactly.

Yeah, that's

you're still doing the garden.

At the end of the day,

you just have more tools available

to do the stuff

that you enjoy doing.

Yes, it's more of that.

It's more of that higher level role

and mentality.

You have to think

through the process

in order to design

and program

the machines to do it for you.

So, you know,

as no code is here, it's not like,

okay, move aside developer,

let the designer do your job.

It's like, no,

you still need to think

through the logic of a workflow

or what you know,

if this then

that essentially

if you can distill a developer down

to a few words, it's

if this then that. Right?

So true.

That's true

if I've done many nested events.

Yes, very true.

And that's the magic of it.

It's like

you capture a condition and you go,

if this happens, then do this.

And then you can infinitely,

you know,

regress and keep going into

all these

different conditional statements.

And that's essentially, you know,

building sites

with no code

doesn't mean there's no logic

and no sophistication.

It it, you know, still requires

that developer mentality.

So what sort of opportunities

do you think no code

is giving to?

Let's say

because we know what it's

giving to designers

and creatives and agencies

they get to

they get power

at their fingertips now

without coding.

But what is it doing

to, say,

augment or empower or help app

developers?

In what ways

do you think no code

actually helps the developers?

So for me,

I see like a few different

things that it's done for me

and with people I've worked with.

The very first is the fact

that what

used to take us two

or three weeks

to do manually with code,

we can basically

the same results

in two or three days,

but that means that

we have that additional

amount of time

to work on really cool features

that might happen in the backend

or the frontend.

It just gives us more time

to like build out

something really cool.

I think that's been

the major change

that I've seen in most situations,

but the

I don't change to

that is where you would spend

a lot of that time doing grunt

work, just coding, coding, coding,

you know, code it

and you have time now

to research, hey,

can I pull in like some cool

animation here? How can I do that?

Can I pull in some cool scripting

like functionality

or pull in some APIs

to do something different?

Like you have less things

to learn before.

If you wanted to learn it,

you would have to learn

all the code

for every single plugin

and feature

that you want to implement.

Now some of those features

are taking care of

and because you have more time,

if there's other features

you want to implement, you can just

look them up as well.

Is it inevitable that no

code always just ends up

leading to code?

So for example, you can no code.

Your startup idea.

Sure, that's nice.

But eventually

you actually

want to be a serious startup

or company or agency.

You're going to have to code it.

So your prototype

idea to validate it.

Thank you.

That's really nice and cute.

But now it's time to

play in the big leagues

and actually code this is it.

Always inevitable.

So that happens.

What I'm seeing is

actually the opposite.

You're starting

to see

all these things

like microservices and APIs

and whatnot,

and slowly

you're seeing better documentation

and better code,

simplified code

and even gooey interfaces

for it, to the point where now

you have tools where

if it's image detection

or if it's AI, it's simply

like a click drag

and connect

to your own website application.

And now you can start

building applications

without knowing

how to do artificial intelligence

because you're just plugging

into another system.

Now you can build a website

without knowing all the stuff

that you might need to for code,

because you just put in that

for no code

and you drag

and drop these two things together

and you've got an AI generated,

you know,

you've got a website

that can do AI components, right?

But there are so many more

like you're seeing more

and more of these industries

adopting and simplified process

to integrate their systems.

And it's going to get to the point

where, yes,

we might not have to know

every nitty gritty thing

we can build an entire

start up or business or idea

just connecting these

tools together.

And I think that's where drag

and drop is actually heading.

But at the same level,

the people who might be building

those independent businesses

like the AI,

they still need

to know, obviously the

python or whatever it

is that they're building those in.

And you get to decide who

like whether

you want to go hardcore into Python

or if you enjoy

building the websites

or if you like building spaces

and each one will have

a different paradigm.

So you think that no code is

do you think that

agencies and companies

are going to be actually

or maybe they already are

looking to hire roles

that are literally no coders?

I'm definitely seeing that, like

even at my own workplace,

what used to take, you know,

as I mentioned, two

or three weeks to do,

we're now getting just our designer

to do it in a week or two.

And then when he runs out of time,

he can easily

hand it off to a developer like me

and I can finish it up

or I can just do the whole thing

while he moves on

to making a logo or

something like that.

So it actually lets the designers

and developers collaborate

a lot more and projects too.

I found where before

they just had

no idea what I was doing.

I That's really cool.

It's like,

yeah, it's

a more collaborative in nature

to where you can kind of

work on that rather

than, you know, in isolation

you design,

you're in Photoshop

or Illustrator or now

sketch and Figma

and then code

and then some backend wizardry.

Now it's like we can

actually collaborate

on this whole process in the same.

And if we're speaking of Editor X,

we with the collaboration tools

like we could

literally as a team

be building this thing out.

I can be doing a create

exactly like I can help

you make some yellow fonts

and some pink backgrounds, or

I can leave that part

up to you to pick the colors

and funds and I can help

you build with you,

you know, demonstrated

as the stylesheet, right?

So maybe I can do

all the design stuff,

but I can create the stuff

based on premade assets,

which always also helps.

I did a site,

I built a site in editor X

and as the from the designer

standpoint, I thought,

okay, what's going to happen

is I'm going to have these two

components the side by side

column toggle back and forth

as you go down.

So every second element

is going to switch.

So, you know,

I know how to do that and.

CC, but I needed to use JavaScript.

And so my JavaScript is pretty bad.

Like it's

I knew is going to be clunky.

So I consulted with an editor

X developer who understood

Velo and was really good at it.

And basically

he just wrote the code for me

and I put it in Velo

and then

boom, like the site's exactly

how I envisioned it creatively.

Yeah.

Like I think at some level

there'll be better drag

and drop tools

for performing those actions.

And at the same time,

I think that

maybe then

the interactions that we can create

are then going to be more complex

when we get developers

to build them.

What would you say

are the pros and cons like generate

general pros and cons of no code

and then the general pros

and cons of code

when trying to achieve

the same outcome.

So like we're saying,

we're trying to build websites.

Maybe you're an agency and you're

trying to build websites

for clients.

What do you think

would be like the pros and cons of

going the no code route

and using something

to that doesn't require any code?

I'd say the very first is

similar to,

I guess the early days of the web

where it's still early days, right?

No code is early days.

So you shouldn't expect

that you'll get everything.

And this is where like coding

gives you the ability

to be like Edward Scissorhands.

You basically have every tool

that you do,

but supposedly

you can cut things up

any way you want

and eventually

no code will be like that

for everything.

But at the same time,

you have to understand that

right now, like

there is some structure

that you need to place

and you need to follow

some paradigms

if you want good results,

like if you want

responsive designs,

you need to

put things in containers

or whatnot.

You can't just like throw things

at a page and expect good results.

But at the same time,

that methodology,

I think, is something that a lot of

developers understand

because they're used to putting

like divs

inside of containers,

inside of columns, inside of rows.

So it's just understanding.

There is a bit of a mind

set shift from one to the other,

but also understanding

that like it will grow

and improve over time.

I think the biggest part for me

is the fact that I can give

people access to

like an editor X website

and have them sit with me

and update stuff.

Whereas before like

having to jump

into the backend code

and sort of try and update that,

that looked like a nightmare.

It was a nightmare

and gave, you know, clients

no confidence

that they could do it themselves

and like you have

that part

being like, don't touch this

or you'll break everything.

And they're like,

I don't want to do that for sure.

For sure.

But not to say that

like that's little

can happen on

no coding tools

like at the end of the day

that I'm still going to be like,

don't touch anything,

just double

click on that font and edit it.

Don't move it

because yeah, it's, it's

always going to be

one of those things, right?

Don't do this.

You know,

you keep keep the clients in check.

So then what do you think

would be

the pros

and cons of the code route?

You know,

I know you kind of touched on them

there in between

between that first part, but

saying like, no,

I'm just doing code,

doing the same thing.

So the code part is

like the pros is that you are,

like I said,

Edward Scissorhands,

you can cut things up

any way you want,

but as soon as you do that,

any mistake

can, like, break it any.

If you're not careful,

like you might not even notice

that it's broken on one browser

as opposed to another.

Whereas like no coding cool.

Sort of like

it just takes care of that

in the background.

You don't have to worry about it.

It's all good.

I think that's

one of the things I really like

because I know I see us

as sometimes was terrible in terms

of like browser compatibility

and then again

like one of the benefits

is, yes,

I can animate anything, any way

I want to the nth degree.

Like I can have some parallax fade

in sliding gizmo,

but like at the end of the day,

do I ever actually do that?

Do I ever implement these things?

And if I did like,

it would just look so startling

to a user that like,

yeah, most people don't.

It's just like a smooth fade in

and that's all you really need

at the end of the day.

So you really have to weigh up

what you're actually doing

most times for websites

and most times

like all of that

extra features that you might have

if you're just doing it

manually isn't really necessary.

I don't think coders

have anything to worry about

and no coders are on like this.

The precipice of like,

I think the Internet

and the way we build for

it is changing for the better,

and it's making it

more democratized and accessible.

And it creates lots of opportunity

for developers

to improve and refine

and create these sorts of tools

and this methodology.

And for designers

and creatives and people

who aren't technical,

it gives them the opportunity

to make

create amazing solutions

for the world.

So before we go, let

people know

where can they

if they want to know

more about your work

and what you're doing, what's where

where can we send them?

Yeah.

So I've got

my own

channel that I'm running up

called Codex Codex Community

and realistically it's more about

like the real kind of work

that developers often do

that's slowly changing.

So I'm doing stuff on right now

a pricing calculator,

which is really cool.

It's actually trying to figure out

how much

you should charge for a website,

but I'm also building

that using no coding tools

and coding tools

and combining them all together.

So you guys

get to learn at the same time

and see how it's implemented

and hopefully it's invaluable,

like a

tool that you can use yourself

if you're doing freelancing

or anything really.

So yeah, you can check that out.

I'm sure

it'll be in the description

of something, right?

You bet. Adrian, thank you so much.

I really appreciate it.

Will make sure

to link up your channel

and that pricing calculator.

I love pricing.

So that's

that's going to be all

linked up there.

Check out Adrian's work

and we really appreciate you

coming on today, man. Thanks, man.

All right.

See you later.

Thanks for watching.

Friends,

if you like this video,

make sure to tap

that like button

because that tells YouTube

to spread the love

and get this channel

in front of more

and more wonderful people like you.

The more the merrier.

I say

subscribe to Adrian's channel,

the Codex Community.

We're going to link that up

here on the screen and down below.

And until next time, we'll see

you in another video. Hoorah!