7/8 Satrio - Grand Final of Indonesia Open 2023

Summary

The speaker explores the transformative power of religion, using Mary Magdalene as a symbol of redemption and personal growth. They discuss the concept of divine mercy and the balance between supernatural and societal change. The talk emphasizes the importance of individual moral responsibility, distinguishing between personal sin and societal issues, and argues for a clear separation to promote moral development and avoid justifying wrongdoing.

Takeaways

• 😇 The paradigm of Mary Magdalene illustrates that forgiveness is the starting point for personal transformation, which should lead to improved behavior and support for others.
• 🙏 The concept of mercy in religion suggests that individuals are forgiven by God and are then expected to change, aligning with the idea of divine justice and personal responsibility.
• 📊 The balance between supernatural and natural transformation is crucial in religious belief, as it distinguishes the unique value of religious practices from social or political change.
• 🌟 Religions offer supernatural benefits and moral guidance, which are essential for individuals seeking meaning beyond the tangible rewards of society.
• 🌱 The pursuit of moral behavior is justified not only by its inherent goodness but also by the promise of future happiness or reward, which is a key motivator for ethical actions.
• 🏆 The idea that doing good for the sake of reward is not sinful but rather a natural desire that can lead to moral excellence.
• 🤔 The question of why people should be moral is answered by the alignment of happiness with moral behavior, which is seen as rational and justified by religious teachings.
• 👥 Religion is not solely about sin but also about community and the collective pursuit of righteousness and justice, which are integral to social transformation.
• 🔗 The proper understanding of sin should be personal and not conflated with social or political issues, which is crucial for the moral development of individuals.
• ✅ The distinction between individual responsibility, religious teachings, and societal structures is vital for maintaining a clear moral compass and preventing the justification of immoral actions.

Q & A

What is the significance of the Mary Magdalene paradigm in the context of forgiveness and personal transformation?

The Mary Magdalene paradigm illustrates that forgiveness is the starting point for personal transformation. After being forgiven, individuals are still required to improve themselves, as seen with Mary Magdalene who, after her encounter with Jesus, stopped her previous lifestyle and became a supporter of Jesus, highlighting the importance of individual transformation through the abandonment of sinful actions.

How does the concept of inherent human imperfection affect the idea of societal transformation within religious contexts?

The inherent imperfection of humans suggests that societal transformation cannot be achieved solely through human efforts. Religions often propose supernatural intervention or moral guidance as a means to facilitate transformation, emphasizing the role of divine mercy and the importance of individual actions and intentions in the pursuit of a better society.

What are the three possible responses religion offers to accommodate the inherent imperfection of humans?

The three possible responses include: 1) The notion of mercy from God, where individuals are forgiven and then expected to change, 2) The idea that good deeds can outweigh mistakes, as seen in some interpretations of Islam and Christianity, and 3) The concept of eternal souls that must repent within an eternal system, suggesting a continuous process of moral improvement beyond this life.

Why is the supernatural aspect of religion considered important in the context of moral transformation?

The supernatural aspect is important because it provides a framework for moral transformation that goes beyond the natural world. It offers a system of rewards and punishments that are not dependent on the immediate outcomes in this life, thus motivating individuals to act morally even when faced with the imperfections and injustices of society.

How does the concept of supernatural transformation differ from natural societal change in terms of individual motivation?

Supernatural transformation focuses on individual actions and moral choices that are believed to lead to rewards in the afterlife, regardless of worldly outcomes. In contrast, natural societal change is driven by political and social structures that aim to improve conditions in the present world, often through collective efforts and systemic reforms.

What is the role of desire for a reward, such as heaven, in moral behavior according to the script?

The script suggests that while it is not inherently sinful to desire a reward like heaven for good deeds, the ultimate goal should be to become a morally excellent individual. The desire for a reward can serve as a motivation, but the primary focus should be on aligning one's actions with moral principles.

Why is it important for morality to be justified by future happiness according to the script?

The script argues that morality needs to be justified by the prospect of future happiness because it provides an ultimate rationale for moral behavior. If individuals believe that good deeds will lead to happiness in the future, it makes moral actions rational and justifiable, even in the face of present-day hardships or injustices.

How does the script differentiate between the roles of religion, society, and the individual in moral development?

The script emphasizes that religion should not be solely focused on sin but should also promote righteousness and justice. It suggests that societal transformation should be aimed at creating a good community and family, while individual moral responsibility should be maintained. This differentiation helps to prevent conflating political and social issues with personal moral accountability.

What are the potential dangers of sublimating individual actions to a greater cause, as discussed in the script?

Sublimating individual actions to a greater cause can lead to a disregard for personal responsibility and moral accountability. This can result in justifying immoral actions in the name of a larger goal, such as establishing a 'Kingdom of Heaven,' and can lead to atrocities committed in the name of religion, as individuals may not believe their individual actions matter as much as the cause they are fighting for.

How does the script suggest maintaining a clear distinction between personal sin and societal issues?

The script suggests that maintaining a clear distinction involves recognizing that sin is a personal matter based on individual actions and choices, while societal issues are related to the political and economic structures. This distinction helps in addressing societal problems without excusing individual immoral behavior and promotes a more mature approach to moral development.

Outlines

00:00

😇 Redemption and Transformation in Religion

The speaker discusses the paradigm of Mary Magdalene, highlighting how forgiveness and personal transformation are central to religious narratives. They argue that while Jesus' forgiveness is a starting point, individuals are still expected to improve themselves. Mary Magdalene's story exemplifies this, as she transitions from a sinner to a supporter of Jesus. The speaker also addresses the inherent imperfection of humans and how religion can accommodate this through mercy and the concept of good deeds outweighing sins. The discussion touches on the importance of supernatural benefits in religion, setting it apart from other social and political systems, and emphasizes the role of religion in providing moral guidance and a framework for individual transformation.

05:01

🌟 The Role of Righteousness in Social and Individual Change

In this paragraph, the focus shifts to the concept of righteousness and justice in societal and individual change. The speaker argues against attributing societal issues solely to sin, instead advocating for a focus on creating a just and righteous society. They discuss the importance of maintaining a distinction between individual actions and societal structures, emphasizing that moral responsibility should not be conflated with social circumstances. The speaker also critiques the tendency to sublimate individual actions to a greater cause, which can lead to atrocities in the name of religion. They conclude by stressing the need to hold individuals accountable for their actions and to separate personal sin from societal and political issues, advocating for a clear understanding of the role of sin as a personal matter.

Keywords

💡Mary Magdalene

Mary Magdalene is a figure in Christianity, often associated with the transformation from a sinner to a devoted follower of Jesus. In the script, she is used as a paradigm of personal transformation through forgiveness and subsequent action, illustrating the theme of individual change and redemption. The speaker mentions how she 'stops pouring her days out' and becomes a supporter of Jesus, highlighting her as an influential female disciple.

💡Forgiveness

Forgiveness is the act of pardoning or ceasing to hold a grudge for a perceived wrongdoing. The script discusses how Jesus' words 'go and sin no more' are not just about forgiveness but also about the expectation of self-improvement. It ties into the video's theme of personal transformation, suggesting that forgiveness is the starting point for individuals to better themselves.

💡Inherently imperfect

The concept of inherent imperfection refers to the idea that people are naturally flawed and cannot achieve perfection. This is used in the script to discuss why societal transformation cannot rely solely on human effort, as it is limited by our imperfect nature. It supports the argument that supernatural intervention or transformation is necessary for true change.

💡Mercy

Mercy is the act of showing compassion or leniency towards those who are deserving of punishment. In the context of the script, mercy is presented as a divine attribute, where God forgives individuals before they transform, yet still demands change. This concept is central to the discussion on how religion views the process of redemption and transformation.

💡Repentance

Repentance is the act of feeling regret for one's wrongdoings and expressing a firm intention to reform. The script mentions repentance in the context of eternal souls needing to repent within an eternal system, suggesting that it is a necessary step for spiritual transformation and aligning with the video's theme of individual change.

💡Supernatural benefits

Supernatural benefits refer to rewards or interventions that come from a divine or otherworldly source. The script argues that religion's appeal lies in its promise of supernatural transformation, as opposed to natural or societal change. This is a key concept in the video's exploration of why people might choose religious beliefs over other systems of social change.

💡Social transformation

Social transformation refers to changes in societal structures or cultural norms. The script contrasts social transformation with religious transformation, suggesting that while the former deals with political and societal structures, the latter is concerned with individual morality and spiritual change.

💡Moral responsibility

Moral responsibility is the idea that individuals are accountable for their actions based on ethical standards. The script emphasizes the importance of maintaining a distinction between personal sin and societal issues, arguing that moral responsibility should not be diluted by attributing individual actions to societal conditions.

💡Righteousness and Justice

Righteousness and justice are concepts related to moral uprightness and fairness. The script suggests that while society should strive for transformation, it should focus on righteousness and justice rather than sin, as these terms better reflect the moral framework within which individuals are expected to act.

💡Ultimate justification

Ultimate justification refers to the belief in a final judgment or reward that justifies one's actions. The script discusses how the promise of future happiness or reward can make moral behavior rational and justified, even when it does not lead to immediate benefits in this world.

💡Sublimation

Sublimation, in the context of the script, refers to the process of redirecting one's actions or desires towards a higher or more noble goal. It is mentioned as a potential issue when religious or societal causes are used to justify immoral actions, as it can lead to a混淆 of moral responsibility and a misunderstanding of the true nature of goodness and sin.

Highlights

The paradigm of Mary Magdalene illustrates the concept of forgiveness and the subsequent need for self-improvement.

Mary Magdalene's transformation from a sinner to a supporter of Jesus is a model of individual change.

The idea that people cannot achieve salvation due to inherent imperfection is discussed.

Religion can accommodate human imperfection through the concept of God's mercy.

In Islam, good deeds can outweigh mistakes on the Day of Judgment, reflecting a balance of actions.

The importance of supernatural benefits in religion and their role in moral systems is emphasized.

Religion offers a supernatural transformation that is distinct from natural societal changes.

The assurance of rewards in the afterlife motivates individuals to strive for goodness despite worldly challenges.

The concept that doing good for the sake of heavenly rewards is not sinful is explored.

Morality is justified when it aligns with future happiness, providing a rational basis for ethical behavior.

The role of community and social transformation in religious belief is highlighted.

Religion is not solely about sin; it also encompasses the idea of a Godly community.

The necessity of distinguishing between individual sin and societal issues for moral development is discussed.

The danger of conflating political and social issues with individual sin is warned against.

The importance of maintaining the personal nature of sin for proper moral accountability is emphasized.

The potential for religious sublimation to lead to atrocities in the pursuit of a 'greater cause' is critiqued.

The necessity of a clear distinction between personal responsibility, religion, and society for moral growth is argued.

Transcripts

Paradigm of Mary Magdalene because

whenever people say this they always

only one sentence that Jesus say go and

sin no

more so it is not that you are

forgiveness for foring and there is

nothing it's Jesus forgiveness starts

and then afterwards you are still

required to better yourself as a person

in fact afterwards we know exactly what

Mar m does she stop pouring her days out

she becomes people who supports Jesus

and becomes one of the most influential

femili dis this is a model that we are

supporting that individual

transformation is shown by the

abandonment of sinful actions members of

the house but joking aside second they

also talking about the idea of we cannot

achieve saltation because people are not

uh in because people are inherently

imperfect members of the House there are

there are three three possible reasons

three possible responses how religion

can accommodate this the first possible

response is the notion of Mercy from God

you can transform before even before

transform you are already forgiven but

then God demands you that you change

idea of mar Magdalen in Islam for

example your mistakes are outweigh by

your good deeds on the day of judgment

there is also another approach available

also under this model in Christianity uh

in some uh branches of Christianity

there is forgety in which your Eternal

Soul have to repent in the Eternal uh in

the Eternal system in fact actually I

find the idea of our foret here actually

is one of the most important thing and

most relevant point in this

or because religion have access to

Supernatural and super worldly benefits

and demands and therefore when you have

the supernatural benefits this kind of

Supernatural benefits underlies the

moral system of religion and why do we

think this is very important we we think

it is very important to understand that

if a person wants to choose between

various kinds of beliefs you can have if

you want to deal with social

transformation like what they want why

do you go have religion communism is

better right or Socialism or social

democracy dis the government directly

why what talking about political why

people talking about supernatural Powers

so religion cannot compete on that kind

of area if you want to choose religion

it should be because of Supernatural

transformation rather

than transformation based on natural

change in society and how does this

approach of superatural transformation

actually helps us in as our society uh

in in this model because then even

though you are imperfect even though you

are unable to deal with you cannot be

certain about rewards in this world you

can be certain of the reward in the next

so even if we ask you to give super

human effort you are rewarded in the

future in the world and that is where we

can guante it precisely because the

world right now is sinful good people

die miserably bad people Prosper members

of the house if you go with government

so if you go with changing government if

you with communist this kind of problems

still exist but if you are religious

then you believe that even though you do

good did then that's acceptable even if

you're not rewarded here you're rewarded

with heaven in comparison in ide with

World Temptation you change the world

anyway so you get the same value as the

same of religion PA it yes do you agree

that if people do good things because

they want to go to heaven that's sinful

no I don't think I don't think I don't

think Islam think is I don't think I

don't think uh the idea that you have to

desire something for desire for

something it's better you become a

morally Exel individual if you do so but

it is not wrong for you to desire reward

for them El and moreover this is a very

good question by by K why do people

bother wanting to be moral the reason

why people want with being moral is that

finally somehow happiness and your Moral

Moral Behavior coincides members of the

house if somebody if everybody in the

world believes that if you do good

things you will be miserable everybody

will be imortal only when there is

Ultimate justification that sometime in

the future that all this your good deed

is going to lead you into happiness only

then is morally Justified and rational

towards individuals members of the House

morality is not independently Justified

actually

secondly secondly this why notion of of

uh having belief in uh in sinful action

based on sinful action is is more

connected towards the idea more than

worldation secondly also very

importantly actually there are a lot of

things that are very attractive from

their model right we talk about social

Transformations and so on but it is

important that we understand this motion

that religion is not just about Sin

right religion is not sin there are also

Godly Community for example therefore if

you want to change CH the society in

order for society to remove that patient

reduce this AR of theti it is not proper

to put it in sin rather you put this on

the idea of righteousness and Justice

members of the house so what you do is

you are committed to changing the world

of creating a good family of creating a

good Society of getting a good Community

but you still retain the notion of right

or wrong why because the notion of right

and wrong has to do with you here while

The National Society has to do with the

political structure of that community of

so therefore our model accommodates what

they have because we can say social

transformation is not related to sin and

moreover it accommodates better because

it is actually more true to the exact

notion of moral responsibility you do

not as ref us you do not not put

murderers in jail because he's tempted

by economic circumstances you put him in

jail and then transform the society so

that economic necessity necessary for

that is not longer

there and this is the more mature

approach not excusing wrong but not

using circumstances as part of

Statistics rather than a part of

individual your soul Belongs to You MERS

of those and this is the proper realm of

sin by making the proper realm of sin

worthly Temptation This you confl the

political the social and the individual

and this is actually harmful towards a

moral development of every individual

because then you blame everything to the

process of social sublimation towards

the Satan and this is exactly what is

misunderstood from the argument May

government Clos govern opposition bench

it's not necessarily true that there is

of course uh bad things happen with each

religious approach it's true but when

you sublimate your kind of behavior

towards a certain notion that there is a

great set in the sky you also sublimate

the idea of good the goodness of Badness

towards the goodness of Badness of this

power in the sky this is why in

religions you commit atrocities because

the final go is the establishment of the

Kingdom of

Heaven this is why the same people who

fought for the Crusades for the for for

the defense of the Holy Land defending

women and that rapes women and children

on the way to the defending of women and

children precisely because what do not

believe that individual actions matter

what they believe is the great cause in

which they are fighting this is why

sublimation like the doing is bad we

should make clear distinction between

what is responsible of person

responsible of religion and society and

that can only be done if sin remains

personal and based on the affirmative

concept thank you very much