Pat Deegan Interview on mental illness and education

Summary

Dr. P shares her inspiring journey of overcoming schizophrenia to earn a PhD. She discusses her struggles with paranoia and anxiety during her undergraduate studies, using strategies like tape recorders to cope. Dr. P emphasizes the importance of self-acceptance, acknowledging her ongoing challenges as part of her identity. She highlights the value of her degree in opening doors for herself and others, particularly in the mental health field, and the significance of finding her life's purpose in helping psych survivors.

Takeaways

• 🎓 The individual with schizophrenia managed to earn a PhD despite significant challenges.
• 🤔 They experienced paranoia and intense fears, which made attending classes and focusing on coursework difficult.
• 📝 Initially, they kept their condition a secret due to fear of being expelled from school.
• 🏆 They developed coping strategies, such as using a tape recorder in class, to manage their symptoms.
• 🏥 They had multiple hospitalizations but have been out of the hospital for 12 years, indicating resilience and progress.
• 🤝 They eventually found support in the consumer and peer movements, which were pivotal in their recovery journey.
• 💡 They came to accept their condition as part of who they are, rather than something to be cured or hidden.
• 🏫 In graduate school, they continued to face challenges but learned to manage their condition without disclosing it to professors.
• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 They have a family, including a partner and a daughter, showing that a fulfilling personal life is possible despite mental health challenges.
• 🔑 A PhD was seen as a tool to open doors and create opportunities, not just an end in itself, but a means to help others.

Q & A

How did Dr. P. D. overcome the challenges of schizophrenia during her educational journey?

Dr. P. D. struggled with many symptoms, starting with taking one course at a time and using strategies like bringing a tape recorder to class to cope with her paranoia and anxiety.

Did Dr. P. D. experience any hospitalizations during her educational journey?

Yes, Dr. P. D. had nine different hospitalizations, with her last one being in 1994, which she has been out of the hospital for 12 years.

How did Dr. P. D. deal with the fear of being discovered as having schizophrenia during her studies?

Initially, she kept her condition to herself, fearing expulsion. She used strategies to manage her symptoms and gradually built up the skills needed to succeed academically.

What was Dr. P. D.'s approach to accepting her schizophrenia?

Dr. P. D. came to accept her schizophrenia as a part of who she is, embracing her vulnerabilities and trauma issues, and recognizing them as a source of compassion for others.

How has Dr. P. D.'s perspective on mental health and recovery evolved over time?

Dr. P. D. realized that recovery doesn't mean becoming 'normal' but accepting oneself, including the challenges and vulnerabilities, and using them to connect with and help others.

What role did the consumer and peer movements play in Dr. P. D.'s life?

The consumer and peer movements were pivotal for Dr. P. D., providing a community where she could be her whole self and find support and empowerment.

How did Dr. P. D. manage to continue her education despite her hospitalizations?

Dr. P. D. was determined to continue her education, even with hospitalizations in the middle of her studies. She managed to do so by being persistent and focused on her goals.

What was Dr. P. D.'s motivation for pursuing a PhD?

Dr. P. D. pursued a PhD not just for the degree itself but as a means to achieve her higher purpose of developing materials and advocating for psych survivors.

How did Dr. P. D. handle the stress and challenges of being a clinical psychologist with her own psychiatric history?

Dr. P. D. found it difficult and had to avoid participating in certain practices like restraints that reminded her of her own experiences. She focused on her goal of helping others.

What advice does Dr. P. D. have for others struggling with mental health issues while pursuing education?

Dr. P. D. advises finding one's purpose and saying 'yes' to it, using the degree not just for personal gain but to open doors and help others.

How does Dr. P. D. view the concept of 'normalcy' and its relation to mental health?

Dr. P. D. views 'normalcy' as an illusion and believes that everyone has struggles and vulnerabilities. She encourages embracing one's own experiences as part of being human.

Outlines

00:00

🎓 Overcoming Schizophrenia and Pursuing Academic Excellence

Dr. P discusses their journey of overcoming schizophrenia while pursuing higher education. Initially, they faced significant challenges, including paranoia and auditory hallucinations, which made attending classes and focusing on studies difficult. They started by taking one course at a time and developed coping strategies, such as using a tape recorder to revisit lectures. Over time, they built up their skills and resilience, leading to academic success. Despite multiple hospitalizations, they managed to complete their education and earn a PhD. Dr. P also talks about the importance of self-acceptance, acknowledging their symptoms as part of their identity rather than something to be cured. They embrace their experiences, including trauma and sensitivities, as elements that have shaped their compassion and understanding towards others.

05:02

🏫 Navigating Graduate School with a Mental Health History

Dr. P shares their experiences in graduate school, where the pressure was high, and the fear of disclosing their mental health history was a significant concern. They recount an incident involving a classmate's psychotic break, which reinforced their decision to keep their struggles private. Despite the challenges, Dr. P emphasizes the importance of their academic pursuits, viewing the PhD as a tool to open doors and create opportunities, not just for themselves but also for others in the mental health community. They found support in the consumer and peer movements, which allowed them to be their authentic self. Dr. P also reflects on the difficulty of working in clinical psychology, especially when faced with practices they disagreed with, such as restraints. Their motivation to continue was driven by a sense of purpose and a calling to develop materials for and with psych survivors, which they view as their life's work.

Keywords

💡Schizophrenia

Schizophrenia is a chronic mental disorder characterized by a range of symptoms that affect a person's thoughts, emotions, and behaviors. In the video, the speaker discusses their personal struggle with schizophrenia and how it impacted their educational journey. The keyword is central to the narrative as it shapes the speaker's experiences and challenges throughout their academic life.

💡Paranoid thoughts

Paranoid thoughts refer to irrational beliefs where a person feels persecuted, harassed, or threatened by others without any real basis. In the context of the video, the speaker mentions being 'very paranoid' during their undergraduate studies, feeling as if everyone in the class was looking at them and having thoughts about them, which is a common symptom of schizophrenia.

💡Hospitalizations

Hospitalizations in this context refer to the speaker's multiple admissions to a hospital for treatment of their schizophrenia. The script mentions nine different hospitalizations, highlighting the severity of their condition and the challenges they faced in managing their mental health while pursuing their education.

💡Accommodations

Accommodations in the video refer to the modifications or adjustments made to help the speaker cope with their condition in an academic setting. The speaker did not initially seek accommodations due to fear of being dismissed from school but later found support within the consumer and peer movements, which allowed them to be more open about their condition.

💡Trauma issues

Trauma issues are psychological challenges resulting from distressing or life-threatening events. The speaker discusses having unresolved trauma issues, which they have worked through therapy to address. The concept is integral to the video's message about accepting oneself, including one's vulnerabilities and past experiences.

💡Psych Survivor

A 'psych survivor' is a term used by individuals who have experienced mental health challenges and have come out the other side, often with a sense of resilience and advocacy. The speaker identifies as a psych survivor and their daughter is referred to in this context, indicating a family's shared experience and strength through mental health struggles.

💡Therapy

Therapy is a form of treatment for mental health issues, often involving talking through problems with a trained professional. The speaker mentions years of therapy as part of their journey to understand and manage their schizophrenia, showcasing the importance of ongoing mental health support.

💡Self-acceptance

Self-acceptance is the process of embracing oneself, including one's strengths and weaknesses, without judgment. The video emphasizes the speaker's journey towards self-acceptance as a key to overcoming the challenges posed by their schizophrenia, illustrating how they learned to accept their symptoms as part of who they are.

💡Educational journey

The 'educational journey' refers to the speaker's path through academic studies, which was fraught with challenges due to their mental health condition. The script details the struggles and strategies they employed to succeed academically, such as taking one course at a time and using a tape recorder to cope with paranoia.

💡Stigma

Stigma refers to the negative attitudes and discrimination against individuals with mental health conditions. The speaker's fear of being 'kicked out of school' and their reluctance to disclose their condition to professors illustrate the impact of stigma on their life and decisions.

💡Peer movement

The 'peer movement' in the context of the video refers to a community of individuals who share similar mental health experiences and support each other. The speaker found solace and empowerment through the peer movement, which helped them accept their identity and find a community that embraced their whole self.

Highlights

The individual struggled with schizophrenia but managed to earn a PhD.

During undergraduate studies, they faced significant challenges and were often symptomatic.

They started by taking one course at a time to manage their symptoms.

Paranoia and fear were significant issues, making it difficult to attend classes.

They used strategies like bringing a tape recorder to class to cope.

Gradually, they built up skills to manage their symptoms and academic challenges.

They experienced nine hospitalizations, with the last one being 12 years ago.

They've come to accept their symptoms as part of who they are.

They've been in a relationship for 20 years and have a 9-year-old daughter.

They view their struggles as a gift that brings them compassion for others.

In graduate school, they were scared to disclose their mental health history.

They realized that having a degree doesn't equate to being 'whole'.

They found the consumer and peer movements to be life-saving.

They faced challenges as a clinical psychologist, especially with certain hospital procedures.

They developed materials for psych survivors, which is their calling.

They continued their education despite a hospitalization during their doctoral studies.

They believe their higher power has a purpose for their life, which keeps them going.

Transcripts

hi Dr P dig um I was so glad to hear

about you and saw how you're able to

overcome schizophrenia and get your PhD

I was wondering were you symptom free

during your um educational Journey did

you have

challenges and um how do you deal with

challenges and did you ever get

accommodations or help from the

professor

yes uh these are great questions um and

uh I I definitely was struggling with an

awful lot of symptoms and in my

undergraduate studies those first uh you

know years I just started with one

course at a time and because I had to

you know other kids were just going in

and being challenged by the material but

I was uh if I could get to the material

I considered it a good day for me it was

can I sit through a class without

freaking out you know if feeling like

everyone in the class is looking at me

and feeling like um they're having some

kind of thoughts about me you know I was

very paranoid at the time and really

struggling with the intense fears and so

um you know I kind

of at first I was just terrified to tell

anybody because I knew that they would

kick me out of school this is just as a

freshman I you know um and then and then

I I just um so I kept it to myself but I

did things like that were at the time I

thought a good idea which was like

bringing a tape recorder to the class

and uh because I was working on can I

sit through the classroom without

freaking out and then when I felt in a

better space maybe later that day or

back at my apartment or something then I

would listen to the lecture on the uh um

on the tape um so I used all kinds of

strategies like that and slowly to me it

was like having to you know like a

weightlifter who builds up their muscles

I had to build up the skills and

strengthen the skills that are required

to sit in a classroom and to deal with

the paranoid thoughts I was having um to

um deal with the distressing voices I

was having the anxiety and then as I got

better at those skills I started having

some success I started getting some A's

in my classes and doing well and I did

go back to the hospital um many time I

had I've had nine different

hospitalizations my last hospitalization

was in 1994 so that's um uh uh What uh

12 years ago now so I've been out the

hospital 12 years and some people are

surprised by that because uh they think

that I'm talking about something that's

ancient history you know and 12 years

ago is a good long time ago but at the

same time I think what happens as I've

grown up is to um instead of saying you

know I guess I've just more or less

learned to accept myself I hear voices

you know there's just's no way around it

I get hyperreactive sometimes to the

stimulus I can't take big crowds of

people or I get explosively angry I have

unresolved trauma issues I've been

through a bazillion years of therapy you

know I've come to the conclusion that

it's just me it's not schizophrenia it's

not a symptom this is how God made me

what can I say you know it's just how I

am and at some point I just embraced it

and I stopped trying to change myself

and said you know what I'm queer I am uh

you know a lesbian who's been with my

partner and we're now officially married

in Massachusetts since 19 uh we've been

together since 1986 that's 20 years we

have a beautiful daughter who's 9 years

old live in an old farmhouse she's a

psych Survivor I you know I'm a psych

Survivor um you know what I thought used

I used to have I thought that getting

well meant kind of having no more big

vulnerabilities and stuff and I think

what finally happened was I saw through

the veil of normaly and realized that

everybody struggles everybody has a

really hard time everybody experiences

days when they'd rather be dead

everybody you know and that life is hard

hard it's it's not you know Nirvana it's

hard and at some point I just embraced

myself and you know I said what you see

is what you get this is me um and I I

quit trying to make it all better I said

you know I still suffer with these

feelings of Trauma from the past but and

I have these flashbacks but you know

what so what it's just me and I know how

to I guess when you know how to deal

with it when stuff would come up in the

past it would throw me off and I go back

to the hospital hital try to get a new

medication or this treatment or that

treatment and now it's like well I know

how to handle it more or less but I'm

not going to be able to make it go away

and why even try it's just me and you

know I think what happens is they say oh

I have these trauma issues or something

and I want to heal from them as if

perfect healing were a possibility and

what I found was if somehow I could

magically take away my trauma history I

would lose a deep amount of my

compassion that my trauma history has

allowed me to uh open and compassionate

ways to other people so that what was a

wound what was a problem I now recognize

maybe a sort of a gift that it brings me

compassion for the world and for other

people and that's a good thing not that

I'd wish it on anybody but at the same

time it's who I am and it sensitizes me

and that's important so school you know

for those all those years I was scared

to tell anybody scared to tell my

teachers some very trusted teachers I

did tell but I'll tell you once I got to

graduate school now the stakes were even

higher on my Master's and my doctorate I

wasn't telling those people cuz I was

terrified I saw one of my classmates in

my um Master's year there were 40 kids

in my class you know one of them had a

wicked bad psychotic break he was

running

around all this aluminum foil all over

him to ward off space rays and

everything I felt bad he ended up

getting thrown out of school and um

you know that scared me that put me even

further in the closet cuz I thought

recovery meant getting normal I thought

I had to put my psych history behind me

and say I'm done with that now I'm whole

now I can go be a professional and then

I start meeting all these people that

are professionals you know and they

don't know I'm a mental patient right

they don't know about my

history and I'm thinking they're whacked

you know they're all in therapy they're

all getting divorced they're all messed

up they can't figure out their gender

you know they can't figure out their

sexual orientation they can't figure out

they got a drug and alcohol thing going

this one's a drunk I'm like they're

whacked and I realized having a degree

doesn't make you

whole you know to me a degree the PHD

has been a um a uh key that unlocks some

important doors gets me to some tables

that if I didn't have it I probably

wouldn't get get there into things like

uh to be concrete uh publishing in

certain journals and you know under my

own name and not needing an MD to

publish with me but being able to

publish my you know get myself published

um being able to conduct certain types

of research attract certain kinds of

grant money um like from the National

Institute of Mental Health or whatever

you kind of need degrees to to do that

so the key to having a degree to in my

mind if I only use it for myself it's no

good it's just selfish for me I use my

degree to bring others and open open

doors for others too and um

accommodations always I found friends

that I could share with eventually I

found the consumer movement the peer of

movement and that saved my ass that

saved my life cuz then I could be all of

who I

was

um the hardest thing going back onto

units as a clinical psychologist and and

having to do rotations at the state

hospital or the emergency room and and

seeing things done that were done to me

like restraints and not want to be a

part of that but they expected me to be

a part of that and it was like I just

had to beg off those days and not not

participate you know but um those are

just some of my thoughts right now how

do you keep on going without quitting

it's so stressful with

school I needed to do it I felt like I

had this goal this thing I needed to do

and the thing I needed to do is what you

saw me doing today which is developing

materials for my people of which I'm a

part you know for psych survivors that

this is I feel like this is what my God

has asked me to do with my life and I

every day I say yes to it and it's what

keeps me going so it wasn't so much that

I wanted a degree as I knew the degree

would get me where I needed to be to do

the work I felt called to do so for me

it was Finding what it was that my

higher power wanted me to do in my life

and then saying yes to it and doing

it so you still kept going even if you

have 12 your classes and he I had a

hospitalization smack dab in the middle

my first year of doctoral studies you

know and the hospital that's tricky cuz

I was doing my Graduate Studies in

Pittsburgh and I went to the hospital at

the University of

Pittsburgh it was awful you know um but

I did it you know you and my and I tried

to make sure my teachers didn't find out

and stuff you know um you know you just

keep keep

going yeah thank you so much Dr batan

you're welcome