Dave Smith Breaks Down the Reasons Russia Invaded Ukraine

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience discusses the critical importance of avoiding war between the US and Russia, highlighting the potential for nuclear conflict. The conversation touches on the complexities of the Ukraine situation, including past US involvement, the 2014 coup, and the role of NATO expansion. It also addresses the narrative surrounding Putin's actions, questioning the 'unprovoked' label and emphasizing the need for understanding historical context to prevent further escalation.

Takeaways

• 🚨 The potential for a nuclear conflict between the United States and Russia is considered a top priority for global security.
• 🌎 There is a perception that the U.S. has been influencing the situation in Ukraine, potentially advising against negotiations with Russia.
• 🤔 The official narrative of Russia's actions in Ukraine is questioned, with claims that it is not an unprovoked war.
• 📜 Historical context is emphasized as crucial for understanding the current conflict, including NATO's expansion and promises made to Russia post-Soviet Union.
• 🏰 The 2014 coup in Ukraine, which was allegedly led by Western powers, is highlighted as a significant event leading to the current tensions.
• 💸 The involvement of U.S. political figures, such as Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden, in Ukrainian affairs is mentioned as part of the complex backdrop.
• 🗳️ The Donbass region's desire for autonomy and its majority ethnic Russian population's sentiment towards Russia is noted.
• 🔥 The script suggests that there is a disconnect between the motivations attributed to Russia's actions by Western media and what Russian leadership has stated.
• 🔄 The script calls for listening to and understanding the perspectives of adversaries to inform a more accurate and comprehensive view of conflicts.

Q & A

What is the main concern expressed in the transcript about the situation between the United States and Russia?

The main concern expressed is the risk of a nuclear conflict between the United States and Russia, which is considered the most important priority in human history, as it could lead to the destruction of the human species.

What is the reported initial deal between Russia and Ukraine that was allegedly discouraged by the United States?

The initial deal reportedly involved Russia pulling back its troops from Ukraine on the condition that Ukraine guaranteed autonomy for the Donbass region and agreed never to join NATO.

How does the transcript describe the official narrative about Vladimir Putin's intentions in Ukraine?

The transcript describes the official narrative as portraying Vladimir Putin as a madman and a war criminal who is bent on reforming the Soviet Union and poses a threat to Europe, despite his military setbacks in Ukraine.

What historical promise regarding NATO expansion is mentioned in the transcript?

The transcript mentions a promise made when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 that NATO would not expand eastward, but it has been expanded multiple times since then.

What role does the transcript suggest the United States played in the 2014 coup in Ukraine?

The transcript suggests that the United States played a leading role in the 2014 coup in Ukraine, which resulted in the overthrow of a pro-Russian government and the installation of a pro-Western government.

What is the significance of the Donbass region in the context of the conflict mentioned in the transcript?

The Donbass region is significant because it has a majority ethnic Russian population that has been in conflict with the Western portion of Ukraine since the 2014 coup, and it has expressed a desire to be part of Russia.

How does the transcript characterize the involvement of the United States in the situation with Ukraine?

The transcript characterizes the United States' involvement as a series of interventions, including the 2014 coup, the provision of weapons, and the installation of a pro-Western government, which contributed to the escalation of the conflict.

What are the two recent events involving Ukraine that are mentioned as having a connection to the current conflict?

The two recent events mentioned are the impeachment of the last U.S. president over an issue involving Ukraine, and the current president's son being paid millions of dollars from a Ukrainian company, Burisma.

What does the transcript suggest about the importance of understanding the history of the conflict between the United States and Russia?

The transcript suggests that understanding the history of the conflict is crucial for comprehending the current situation and determining the best course of action to avoid further escalation and the risk of nuclear war.

How does the transcript discuss the role of media and narratives in shaping public understanding of the conflict?

The transcript discusses the role of media and narratives by criticizing the official narrative as misleading and incomplete, and by highlighting the importance of listening to the actual statements of figures like Vladimir Putin to understand their motivations.

Outlines

00:00

🌍 Geopolitical Tensions: US-Russia Relations and the Ukraine Crisis

The paragraph discusses the critical nature of the US-Russia relationship, particularly in the context of the Ukraine conflict. It emphasizes the importance of avoiding war between the two nuclear powers, as it could lead to catastrophic consequences for humanity. The speaker suggests that there was a missed opportunity for negotiation early in the conflict, with reports indicating that the US advised Ukraine against a potential peace deal. The paragraph also critiques the official narrative that portrays Putin as irrational and solely aggressive, while downplaying the provocations and historical context that led to the conflict. It touches on the expansion of NATO and the 2014 coup in Ukraine, suggesting that these events are significant in understanding the current situation.

05:03

🎭 Media Narratives and Historical Context in Ukraine's Conflict

This paragraph delves into the media's portrayal of the Ukraine conflict, highlighting the perceived bias and lack of historical context in mainstream reporting. It references an interview where a foreign affairs editor discusses the strategic importance of Ukraine to both Russia and the West. The speaker argues that the West's involvement in the 2014 coup and subsequent support for a pro-Western government in Ukraine is a significant factor in the current tensions. The paragraph also discusses the role of non-governmental organizations and US policy in shaping the political landscape of Ukraine, suggesting that external influences have played a substantial part in the unfolding crisis.

10:05

🔥 The Complexities of the Ukraine Crisis: Historical Antecedents and Current Implications

The final paragraph explores the intricate background of the Ukraine crisis, connecting recent events to historical actions and decisions. It mentions the impeachment of a former US president over Ukraine-related issues and the involvement of the current president's son with a Ukrainian energy company, suggesting a complex web of political and economic interests. The paragraph also discusses the ethnic tensions in the Donbass region and the historical ties between Ukraine and Russia. It concludes by reiterating the importance of understanding the full context of the conflict to avoid a potentially disastrous nuclear confrontation between the US and Russia.

Keywords

💡Nuclear conflict

Nuclear conflict refers to a war involving the use of nuclear weapons, which have the potential to cause catastrophic damage on a global scale. In the context of the video, the speaker emphasizes the urgency of avoiding a nuclear conflict between the United States and Russia, as it could lead to the destruction of the human species. The script mentions the 'flirting with a nuclear conflict with Russia' as the most important priority in human history, highlighting the gravity of the situation.

💡NATO

NATO, or the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, is a military alliance between North American and European countries aimed at collective defense. The video discusses NATO's eastward expansion, which has been a point of contention with Russia. The script references a promise made to Russia in 1991 that NATO would not expand eastward, a promise that has been broken according to the speaker, leading to tensions and contributing to the current conflict.

💡Donbass region

The Donbass region is an area in Eastern Ukraine that has been the center of conflict between Ukraine and pro-Russian separatists. The script mentions that the Donbass region has a majority of ethnic Russians who have been at odds with the Ukrainian government since the 2014 coup. The region's desire for autonomy or even integration with Russia is presented as a significant factor in the ongoing conflict.

💡Coup

A coup, short for coup d'état, is the sudden and often violent overthrow of a government. The video script refers to a coup in Ukraine in 2014, which was allegedly led by Western powers. This event is portrayed as a pivotal moment that shifted Ukraine's political alignment and set the stage for the current conflict with Russia.

💡Provocation

Provocation in the context of the video refers to actions or events that incite or justify a response, often aggressive. The speaker argues against the narrative that Russia's invasion of Ukraine was unprovoked, suggesting that there were historical and political provocations that led to the conflict. This term is used to challenge the official narrative and to emphasize the complexity of the situation.

💡Autonomy

Autonomy in this context means the right of a region to govern itself within the boundaries of a larger entity, such as a country. The script discusses a potential deal where Ukraine would grant autonomy to the Donbass region in exchange for Russia pulling back its troops, illustrating the complexities of the negotiations and the desires of different parties within the conflict.

💡Boris Johnson

Boris Johnson, mentioned in the script, was the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom at the time of the discussion. The speaker alleges that the United States advised Johnson to tell Ukraine not to negotiate with Russia, suggesting interference in the conflict by Western powers and highlighting the international nature of the issue.

💡Osama Bin Laden

Osama Bin Laden is referenced in the video as a contrast to Vladimir Putin. The speaker points out the importance of understanding the motivations of adversaries, using Bin Laden's clear statements about his reasons for opposing the United States as an example. This is used to argue for the necessity of listening to Putin's stated reasons for his actions in Ukraine, rather than dismissing them.

💡Unprovoked War

The term 'unprovoked war' is used in the script to critique the narrative that Russia's actions in Ukraine were without cause. The speaker argues that there were provocations, including NATO's expansion and the 2014 coup, which are presented as justifications for Russia's response. This term is central to the debate over the origins and nature of the conflict.

💡Vladimir Putin

Vladimir Putin is the President of Russia and a central figure in the discussion. The script presents various perspectives on Putin's motivations and actions regarding Ukraine. He is depicted both as a madman threatening Europe and as a leader responding to provocations. Understanding Putin's role and the portrayal of him in the media is key to grasping the video's exploration of the conflict.

Highlights

The discussion emphasizes the extreme importance of avoiding war between the U.S. and Russia, given the catastrophic potential of nuclear conflict.

Reports suggest that the U.S. advised Ukraine against negotiating with Russia early in the conflict, potentially missing a chance for peace.

A proposed deal between Russia and Ukraine involved troop withdrawal and autonomy for the Donbass region in exchange for Ukraine not joining NATO.

The official narrative portrays Putin as irrational and a threat to Europe, despite Russia's struggles in the Ukraine conflict.

Transcripts

The Joe Rogan Experience dude this thing

with Russia is just like the craziest

thing in the world like the idea that

we're actually

flirting with a nuclear conflict with

Russia is the most important priority in

the history of humanity is that America

and Russia do not go to war there's

nothing more important than that that's

that's it we'll destroy the the human

species if we do this and yet there's

this war right on Russia's border and

there's no effort to negotiate going on

there's like no effort in fact from from

very uh solid reporting that actually

America threw Boris Johnson and and told

Ukraine not to negotiate with Russia at

the very beginning of the war when they

had a deal worked out they had a they

had a deal worked out that's been

reported in multiple sources that they

had a deal worked out and the deal was

basically that Vladimir Putin would pull

back he would pull back his troops and

leave Ukraine under the condition that

the very simple conditions that Ukraine

uh uh guaranteed um autonomy for the

donbass region and agreed to never join

NATO and like that was a deal like okay

I'm not saying everyone thinks that's

the perfect deal but it's better than

what we we got right now out of the

nuclear war and right now just the other

day dude the official narrative on this

this whole War it's just like it makes

no sense and again like I said Remember

the same people who are pushing this are

the ones who are telling you Saddam

Hussein had weapons of mass destruction

stuff but the official narrative Joe is

basically that um okay so uh uh Vladimir

Putin is a a Madman a crazy war criminal

who's hell-bent on um reforming the

Soviet Union and this is a real threat

that he could do this but also he's he's

getting humiliated in this war in

Ukraine it's like he's losing the

poorest country in Europe and he's just

getting humiliated and beat back but

he's still a real threat to take over

all of Europe and he's a complete madman

by the way Joe but when he says he's

going to use nuclear weapons don't

listen to that he'd never actually do

that even though he's a complete madman

and as everyone says this this war the

word they use over and over and over

again Joe Biden Kamala Harris Hillary

Clinton all of them unprovoked Vladimir

Putin LED an unprovoked War in Ukraine

but then it's just like with Osama Bin

Laden what they did with him then don't

listen to him whatever you do don't

listen to what he's actually saying

because none of that's his motivations

like what his motivations are what we

tell you Osama Bin Laden hates us uh

because we're free

and then like Ron Paul would just go

like yeah but that's not what he's

saying at all like oh he Osama Bin Laden

was so clear about why he hated America

and he's like look I hate you because

you murder innocent civilians in the

Muslim world you prop up brutal

dictators in the Muslim world you prop

up Israel who mistreats the Palestinian

people and you have your uh your bases

and our Holy Land in the Arabian

Peninsula and then they're like nah he

hates us because we're free look he

didn't mention anything about Freedom

there and then if you say that they're

like well are you defending Osama Bin

Laden and you're like no I'm just saying

listen to your enemies there's a reason

why he hates us and if you listen to

Vladimir Putin and what he's saying I

mean look he's wrong for invading uh

Ukraine and I mean you know me Joe I'm

the most anti-war [ __ ] [ __ ] person

there is and there's no excuse for that

like tens of thousands of people have

died it's horrible and a lot of them are

soldiers but a lot of them are civilians

and um but to say he was unprovoked is

like insane it's just only people who

know nothing about the history of this

conflict would say there was no

provocation did you see the conversation

that Roger Waters had with that CNN guy

she had right because Roger Waters was

awesome on that because he knows what

he's talking about dude and he's right

about all of that [ __ ] he's look the the

prom and this is what he was saying he's

absolutely right is that the promise

when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991

and this was like verbally promised and

put in writing was that NATO would not

expand one inch to the East and NATO at

that point the line then was through

Germany right like the the Western half

of Germany was in the west and the

eastern half was with the Soviet Union

and they were like we'll let all of

these nations you know secede and the

Soviet Union will collapse and we're

giving up on communism it's one of the

greatest things that ever happened and

the deal was okay you do that then we

won't move NATO we won't move our

military Alliance into your area that

used to be your realm of influence and

every single president since then has

moved NATO East to the point that NATO

is now on Russia's border and in Ukraine

even though they didn't officially join

there was always talk of it Kamala

Harris very right before the start of

the war said we're looking to put

Ukraine into NATO and the the um you

know they they put under George W bush

they put in um in uh Poland these dual

use rocket launchers there's a big

complaint that Vladimir Putin has that

he's like these law these can be used to

get nukes here in a matter of minutes

like this is a this is like a threat to

us that we cannot tolerate then in 2014

there was a coup in Ukraine that was

completely led by the West I don't know

if you've ever heard but like uh like I

think I sent you actually once the uh

the tape of Gideon Rose who was the

editor for foreign affairs magazine on

the old Stephen Colbert Report uh show

back when Colbert was hilarious and he

was just openly bragging about what the

game is here and then he was like well

Ukraine is kind of like the robin to

Russia's Batman and so our job is to

steal Robin away from Batman and make

him come over here and join us and aha

Vladimir Putin's so stupid that he won't

do anything then Colbert's in his old

character so he's like well shouldn't

Obama be spiking the football and saying

yeah in your face Putin and Gideon Rose

is like well no no because then Putin

might invade Ukraine so we wouldn't want

to spike the ball but they there there's

these oh yeah let's play it let's play

it go from the beginning yeah play it

from the beginning

there's the magazine foreign affairs

no no no now Gideon uh help me out here

we've gotta we've got a battle the

Ukraine some of them want to go into the

EU the European Union right uh and some

of them want to stay with Russia if the

Ukraine's not in Europe right now what

continent is it on well it's part of

Eurasia but it's part of Eastern Europe

and the former Soviet Bloc it's

basically Robin to Russia's Batman and

The Challenge here the challenge here is

to try to attract it to the west to get

it to flip sides so the rebels in the

streets what are they fighting for

they're fighting for a better future

countries have a development sounds like

a political speech no but it's actually

really countries have to develop over

time and Ukraine basically after the end

of the Soviet Union faced two tracks it

could stay as sort of stagnant corrupt

authoritarian country tied to Russia or

it could essentially join the West it

could modernize liberalize become a

democracy uh at the last minute when it

looked like it was going to trade up

from its sort of uh abusive relationship

with its boyfriend from the hood to a

nice Yuppie you're not loading these

choices in any way whatsoever it's

actually true when it looked like it was

going to trade up to a better

environment at the last minute Putin

offered a bribe how much 15 billion uh

that's a lot of cash it's a lot of cash

and the president who himself was tied

to the old Elites and the eastern part

of the country ties to Russia decided to

back off the change and go you know how

many pirate themed restaurants you can

buy with 15 billion dollars the problem

was the western parts of the country and

the younger parts of the country and the

more modern liberal parts of the country

basically knew that they had no future

being Russia's Russia's vassal do we so

they took to the streets is America

taking sides in this in any way if these

people the rebels are winning right now

right yes just recently why isn't Obama

spiking the ball in the end zone and

calling Putin and saying hey you might

have won the medal count but we won the

country count [ __ ]

it's actually a very good question and

the answer is that we don't want want

Russia to intervene and kick over the

table like a game of Risk and take

Ukraine back and so they do that could

he send in troops yes he could so we are

choosing so does Ukraine have any troops

of their own would they fight back yes

but we don't want this to escalate and

we don't want Russia to crack down so we

want to basically distract Russia oh

look you have the highest medal count oh

you did really well uh

and you know there's a shiny object an

entire country away from you

holy [ __ ] now isn't that funny right now

there's a power vacuum the opposition is

all together which everybody it's easy

to agree on getting rid of the bad old

regime and much harder to create a

stable country in which everybody

compromises and moves forward they need

a strong leader to move the country

forward do you know who's always good at

A Moment Like That

Vladimir Putin do you think he might

volunteer to come in and and and help

Ukraine the reason we don't want we

don't want we don't want Putin to get

involved in this and so we are basically

we want to try and involve him in this

decision so that he allows Ukraine to go

we actually want to not we want to say

we want a non-exclusive relationship

with Ukraine you could have a

relationship with it too you're the only

one making this into a girlfriend

boyfriend relationship Ukraine is

basically choosing its future between

two completely different courses of

action and we're trying to blur that

choice so the old boyfriend doesn't get

too upset for Christ so so it's just all

these George Soros funded ngos were

funding the the militias on the ground

who were overthrowing the government and

then there's a tape of Victoria Newland

who's who's uh was at the state

department at the time one of the top

people at the state department and she

was basically talking about who would be

the new government that took over who

America didn't want in who we did want

in the new government so it's not you

know what happened basically was as

Gideon Rose was even saying the

Ukrainian government was kind of of

siding with Russia or at least a lot

more pro-russia and then we overthrew

that government and installed the pro

America government and this to Putin he

had said over and over again was a huge

red line for him like Ukraine was the

big line and you could look imagine take

it from our point of view if like Russia

was coming over here and overthrowing

the pro-america government in Montreal

and installing a pro-russia government

there and you know like this would be

seen as would you call that an

unprovoked attack you know if we were to

go in there and then go overthrow that

government so again I'm not justifying

what he's doing but and then the other

thing to this right that's important ad

is like you remember the two big things

that it's so weird no one like at least

in the in the larger conversation I

don't see anyone connecting these things

is that there's two things like

involving Ukraine that they were very

big that happened very recently in

American history that very much connect

to this war and one is that our last

president was impeached over a thing

with Ukraine and like what was that and

then the other thing is uh the current

president's son was getting paid

millions of dollars from a company

barisma in Ukraine and these things all

connect and basically what happened was

after the 2014 coup this company barisma

they were and by the way uh Matt taibi

has done incredible reporting on this I

highly recommend everyone read his stuff

uh his sub Stacks incredible fantastic

unbelievable but so basically barismo

was in bed with the old government that

had allied with Russia and so when this

government was overthrown they were very

worried because they were like oh we

were in bed with the old government and

now there's this new government who's in

there and so instead of bribing the new

government

they just went right to the source

and bribed the son of the sitting Vice

President Joe Biden when he was vice

president was in charge of Ukraine

policy oh my God so they just went that

was why they put him there and then they

put some other like CIA guy or something

like that on their board they're just

paying him money to just be like hey

keep us in with you and then Trump was

telling them to investigate all of this

[ __ ] he got on the phone with them and

was like I want to investigate

everything that was going on with Joe

and Hunter Biden in Ukraine and Donald

Trump did he got into an area that it

was there's an argument it was not okay

what he was doing because he was kind of

going like maybe you don't get this

these uh these weapons that I was going

to send in unless you go investigate

them and this was his political opponent

so it was a little bit of a shady thing

but then the other story about that is

that ultimately Trump caved and he sent

in the weapons to Ukraine so now not

only did Obama overthrow the regime when

Joe Biden was the point man Joe Biden

was running Ukraine policy Obama leads

this coup over the throws that

government and puts in a pro-western

government then Trump comes in sends in

a whole bunch of weapons to this new

government that Obama wouldn't even send

in because he was concerned it would

provoke uh Russia and then the next

president is Joe Biden the last guy who

was the point man on Ukraine who who was

there when this coup happened then he

comes back in this is all like the

context that led to Vladimir Putin

invading Ukraine so again I'm not saying

and the other little thing I should

mention there too is that that Don bass

region on the Eastern portion of Ukraine

is like majority ethnic Russians and

they got really pissed off at when the

new government came in in 2014 and they

were basically warring with uh with the

the you know the Kiev Western portion of

Ukraine since then and they had a

referendum in 2015 and voted

overwhelmingly that they wanted to be a

part of Russia and Vladimir Putin didn't

take them but they said they voted that

they wanted to be uh part of Russia not

a part of Ukraine so it's just a very

complicated mess and it's the same thing

with like the war on terrorism if you're

gonna tell this story of like what led

to this to understand where to go from

here the story has to include that

America was intervening in the Middle

East for decades before 9 11. the story

can't just start at 9 11. you know what

I mean and so I guess the the biggest

part is what I said before that the

concern of all of us should be just that

there's no nuclear conflict between

America and Russia which seems like

we're like dangerously close to