NATURE vs NURTURE: What CAUSES Criminality and VIOLENCE? | FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST (Dr Das)

A Psych For Sore Minds
17 Sept 202115:41

Summary

TLDRIn this insightful video, Consultant Forensic Psychiatrist Dr. Sohom Das explores the age-old debate of nature versus nurture in criminality, focusing on violence. Through case examples and research summaries, he delves into environmental factors like poverty and abuse, alongside genetic influences. Dr. Das also discusses the role of mental health, personality traits, and social theories, providing a balanced view that crime is influenced by both innate predispositions and life circumstances.

Takeaways

  • 🕵️‍♂️ Dr. Sohom Das is a Consultant Forensic Psychiatrist who specializes in assessing mentally disordered offenders.
  • 🌟 The age-old debate of nature versus nurture in criminality is tackled, with a focus on environmental and genetic factors leading to violence.
  • 📊 A meta-analysis of 24 studies suggests that the variance of violence is approximately 50% genetic and 50% environmental.
  • 👥 Environmental factors often include poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence, and being a victim of physical or sexual abuse.
  • 🧬 Genetic factors such as the 'warrior gene' (monoamine oxidase inhibitor) can influence aggression due to the buildup of neurotransmitters.
  • 🏥 Dr. Das shares case examples, including a young woman with no environmental factors whose mental illness led to a tragic crime.
  • 🌐 Criminogenic peers and the modeling of criminal behavior are significant environmental influences on offending.
  • 💰 Poverty and lack of educational opportunities can lead individuals to turn towards crime as a means of survival.
  • 🧠 Mental health issues, such as psychosis and delusions, can directly result in criminal behavior, as seen in some of Dr. Das's cases.
  • 🍷 Substance abuse, including alcohol, can disinhibit individuals, leading to impulsive and aggressive actions without considering consequences.
  • 🤝 Social theories, including risk versus benefit, strain theory, and social control theory, help explain the motivations behind criminal behavior.

Q & A

  • What is the main topic of the video script by Dr. Sohom Das?

    -The main topic of the video script is the age-old question of nature versus nurture in the context of criminality and violence.

  • What does Dr. Das do for a living?

    -Dr. Das is a Consultant Forensic Psychiatrist who assesses mentally disordered offenders.

  • What are some common environmental factors Dr. Das has observed in the majority of his patients?

    -Common environmental factors include poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence, and being victims of physical or sexual abuse.

  • Can you provide an example of a case where environmental factors were not present, as mentioned by Dr. Das?

    -One example is the case of an 18-year-old girl with no history of antisocial behavior or criminality in her family, who became psychotic and tragically killed her two-year-old nephew.

  • What is a meta-analysis and how does it relate to the research on the variance of violence?

    -A meta-analysis is a statistical method that combines the results of multiple studies. In the context of violence, a meta-analysis of 24 studies concluded that the variance of violence is about 50% genetic and 50% environmental.

  • What are some of the environmental factors that can lead to violence according to Dr. Das?

    -Some environmental factors include having criminogenic peers, poverty, lack of educational opportunities, witnessing or being a victim of abuse, and substance abuse.

  • What is the significance of the 'warrior gene' mentioned by Dr. Das?

    -The 'warrior gene' refers to a gene related to monoamine oxidase, an enzyme that breaks down neurotransmitters involved in impulse control and mood. A deficiency in this enzyme can lead to an accumulation of these neurotransmitters, which is associated with aggression.

  • What are some social theories introduced by Dr. Das that explain criminal behavior?

    -Dr. Das introduces theories such as risk versus benefit, strain theory, and social control theory, which attempt to explain why individuals might engage in criminal behavior based on their perception of risks, societal pressures, and internal or external controls.

  • What is the role of mental illness and personality factors in criminal behavior as per Dr. Das's expertise?

    -Mental illness and personality factors play a significant role in criminal behavior. For instance, individuals with psychotic delusions or certain personality traits like paranoia or impulsiveness may be more prone to violence.

  • Can you provide an example of how substance abuse can lead to criminal behavior as described in the script?

    -An example is the case of a young man who became highly intoxicated and, during an argument over a drug exchange, ended up stabbing his best friend, leading to his arrest for alleged murder.

  • What is the importance of understanding both genetic and environmental factors in the context of criminal behavior?

    -Understanding both genetic and environmental factors is crucial as it provides a comprehensive view of the complex interplay between nature and nurture in shaping criminal behavior, allowing for more effective prevention and intervention strategies.

Outlines

00:00

🕵️‍♂️ Nature vs. Nurture in Violence: An Introduction

Dr. Sohom Das, a Consultant Forensic Psychiatrist, introduces the classic debate of nature versus nurture in the context of criminality and violence. He plans to discuss environmental factors contributing to violence through case examples of patients he has assessed, including a young woman with no prior criminal tendencies who committed a violent act due to mental illness. The episode will also summarize research findings, indicating a roughly equal genetic and environmental contribution to violent behavior, and touch upon social theories that integrate these factors.

05:03

🌐 Environmental Factors Influencing Violence

This paragraph delves into the significant environmental factors that can lead to violent behavior. Dr. Das emphasizes the impact of criminogenic peers, poverty, and lack of educational and economic opportunities that may push individuals towards crime. He also discusses the role of parental influence, exposure to physical abuse and domestic violence, and substance abuse. The paragraph highlights how witnessing or being a victim of violence can shape an individual's behavior and moral compass, potentially leading to violent tendencies later in life.

10:05

🧬 Genetic Factors and Personality in Violence

Dr. Das explores the genetic factors associated with violence, focusing on the 'warrior gene' and its role in neurotransmitter regulation, which affects impulse control and mood. He mentions studies that link genetic variations to aggressive behavior in both mice and humans. Additionally, he touches on personality factors such as paranoia and impulsiveness, which can contribute to violent actions, independent of environmental influences.

15:06

📚 Social Theories on Crime and Violence

In the final paragraph, Dr. Das introduces social theories that explain the occurrence of crime and violence. He discusses the risk versus benefit theory, which suggests individuals make decisions based on their circumstances, and the strain theory, which posits that individuals may resort to crime due to stress and lack of opportunities. His favorite, the social control theory, proposes that internal and external factors prevent most people from committing crimes, despite the inherent capability and desire. The paragraph concludes with a humorous note, urging viewers to subscribe to his channel.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Forensic Psychiatrist

A forensic psychiatrist is a medical doctor who specializes in understanding the relationship between mental health and legal issues. In the video, Dr. Sohom Das, as a forensic psychiatrist, assesses mentally disordered offenders to determine the role of mental health in criminal behavior, which is central to the video's theme of exploring the causes of violence.

💡Nature versus Nurture

This concept refers to the debate over whether human behavior is determined by genetics (nature) or by environmental factors (nurture). The video discusses this debate in the context of violence, suggesting that both genetic and environmental factors contribute equally, as per a meta-analysis of 24 studies mentioned by Dr. Das.

💡Violence

Violence is the use of physical force to harm or intimidate others. It is the main theme of the video, as Dr. Das explores various factors that contribute to violent behavior, including environmental influences like poverty and genetic factors such as the 'warrior gene'.

💡Criminogenic Peers

Criminogenic peers are individuals who influence others to engage in criminal behavior. In the video, Dr. Das explains that growing up around such peers can normalize offending and increase the likelihood of an individual engaging in violence or crime.

💡Poverty

Poverty refers to a lack of sufficient resources to meet basic needs. In the context of the video, poverty is highlighted as an environmental factor that can lead to crime and violence due to limited educational opportunities and few legitimate ways to make a living.

💡Mental Illness

Mental illness refers to a wide range of mental health conditions that affect mood, thinking, and behavior. Dr. Das provides examples from his cases where mental illness, such as psychosis, directly led to violent offenses, emphasizing its role in the video's discussion on violence.

💡Genetics

Genetics is the study of heredity and the variation of inherited characteristics. In the video, Dr. Das discusses genetic factors contributing to violence, including the 'warrior gene' and other gene clusters that may predispose individuals to aggressive behavior.

💡Environmental Factors

Environmental factors are external conditions and influences that affect an individual's development and behavior. The video emphasizes various environmental factors such as poverty, drug abuse, and exposure to violence, which contribute to the development of violent tendencies.

💡Personality Factors

Personality factors refer to the individual traits and characteristics that influence behavior. Dr. Das mentions in the video that personality traits like paranoia and impulsivity can be linked to violent behavior, especially when combined with environmental stressors.

💡Social Theories

Social theories are frameworks that attempt to explain social phenomena. In the video, Dr. Das briefly introduces social theories that help explain why individuals commit crimes, such as the risk versus benefit analysis, strain theory, and social control theory, providing a broader perspective on the causes of violence.

Highlights

Dr. Sohom Das introduces himself as a Consultant Forensic Psychiatrist specializing in assessing mentally disordered offenders.

The video aims to explore the age-old debate of nature versus nurture in the context of criminal violence.

Dr. Das provides brief case examples to illustrate environmental factors contributing to violence.

A meta-analysis of 24 studies suggests a 50/50 genetic to environmental contribution to violence.

Twin studies support the conclusion of a roughly equal genetic and environmental influence on violent behavior.

The importance of criminogenic peers in modeling criminal behavior is emphasized.

Poverty is highlighted as a significant factor leading to a lack of educational opportunities and potential criminality.

Parental influence and boundaries are discussed as crucial in shaping children's moral compass.

The impact of being a victim of physical abuse or witnessing domestic violence on future violent behavior is examined.

Mental illness and its direct link to criminal offending in the absence of environmental factors is presented through case studies.

The role of substance abuse, including alcohol, in disinhibition and increased aggression is discussed.

Dr. Das explains the concept of the 'warrior gene' and its association with aggression due to neurotransmitter buildup.

The influence of personality factors such as paranoia and impulsivity on criminal behavior is highlighted.

Social theories are introduced to explain the interplay between nature, nurture, and environmental factors in criminality.

The risk versus benefit theory suggests that individuals weigh their circumstances when deciding to commit crimes.

Strain theory posits that individuals take shortcuts to achieve desired life outcomes due to environmental stressors.

Social control theory is presented, suggesting that internal and external factors prevent the average person from committing crimes.

Dr. Das invites viewers to his talk at CrimeCon and mentions his upcoming book, 'In Two Minds', offering a personal perspective on his work.

The video concludes with a humorous reminder to subscribe and a heartfelt expression of love to the viewers.

Transcripts

play00:04

Hello cruel world. My name is Dr Sohom Das.  I'm a Consultant Forensic Psychiatrist.  

play00:09

I assess mentally disordered offenders for a  living, so that you don't have to. Today i'm going  

play00:16

to tackle quite a big question in the world of  criminality which is this, nature versus nurture  

play00:23

when it comes to violence. So this is an age-old  question like how old is the universe? Is time  

play00:30

travel possible? and why do men have nipples? So  in this episode i'm going to give you a couple of  

play00:35

very brief case examples of patients that I have  assessed just to give you a kind of overview of  

play00:41

some environmental factors. then i'm going to  really quickly summarize some of the research  

play00:47

in this area but don't worry i'll make it quick  and less as least boring as possible. I'm going  

play00:53

to talk about some specific environmental factors  and how they lead to violence. I'm going to talk  

play00:58

about mental health and personality factors  because after all that is my area of expertise  

play01:04

and i'll talk about some of the genetic factors  as well and finally I am going to tell you  

play01:10

about some theories which bring in some of these  factors together. They're kind of social theories.  

play01:16

So sit back and relax welcome to A Psych for Sore  Minds. I elevate while you vegetate.. no sorry I  

play01:22

educate while you vegetate. So one thing I would  say is i've assessed hundreds of criminal cases  

play01:28

and the vast majority of the time they have lots  of environmental factors and they are things  

play01:34

like poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence,  being the victims of physical or sexual abuse,  

play01:42

the perpetrators that is when they're younger,  poverty did I say that? drugs and alcohol these  

play01:48

are very common. The vast majority of patients  that I see have these factors, in fact it's so  

play01:53

common that when I see patients that don't have  those factors they really stand out in my memory.  

play01:58

One absolutely major one has to be a case that  i've spoken about very recently in a video the  

play02:03

most shocking case of any of my patients. A young  18 year old girl who's got this unblemished past,  

play02:10

she has never been antisocial, no drugs, no family  history of criminality, never got into trouble,  

play02:16

out of the blue she became psychotic and  tragically she um smothered and killed her  

play02:21

two-year-old nephew who she was babysitting at the  time. The reason I bring up this case is because  

play02:27

even though she had no environmental factors,  it's very clear that her mental illness directly  

play02:32

led to her offending. Another case that really  stands out was very early on in my career. I  

play02:38

met this young man in a medium secure unit. He  was in his early 20s and he was also unusual in  

play02:43

that he came from a very privileged background. So  for example he was privately educated. For those  

play02:48

people outside the UK, about seven percent of our  kids go to these private schools. Very expensive,  

play02:54

the highest level of education. He was one of  those people. He uh was very intelligent at school  

play02:59

but despite that and also his siblings were very  successful. He had one sister who was a barrister  

play03:06

and a brother who was a dentist. They were older  than him but this kid he just constantly got into  

play03:12

trouble with delinquent since he was a kid from  getting into fights at school, got into drugs  

play03:17

uh he was actually there for the alleged murder  of his best friend who he stabbed after he became  

play03:24

really high on drugs. They were arguing about this  drug exchange. They used to throw raves so it was  

play03:29

all related to that. So the point, the reason i'm  bringing him up is he is another exceptional case  

play03:34

where there wasn't any environmental factors  or clear genetic factors that I could see it  

play03:39

just seemed to be random. So nature versus nurture  which one is it? To really briefly summarize the  

play03:45

research that we know. There was a meta-analysis  of 24 different studies and they concluded that  

play03:51

the variance of violence is about 50% genetic,  50% environmental so what is a meta-analysis?  

play03:58

People much people much cleverer than me, they  combine all these studies and mix the results  

play04:02

together which is much more complicated than it  sounds because the ways that you measure violence  

play04:07

can be different. So some people might have like  a self-filled questionnaire. Some other pieces  

play04:12

of research might look at their criminal record  and they those both those methods have potential  

play04:18

inaccuracies for different reasons. Also the  populations they study might be different so some  

play04:23

studies might look at the prison population some  might look at males only for example so to combine  

play04:29

all these studies is actually pretty complicated  involves a lot of statistics blah blah blah and on  

play04:33

top of that there have been twin studies as well  so as you might know if you have monozygotic twins  

play04:39

they're 100% genetically identical so in cases  where they're sent for adoption or they grew  

play04:44

up in different environments which is rare but it  does happen, you can measure things like violence  

play04:49

so you know how much is afforded to genetic  factors. You could also do dizygotic twin studies  

play04:57

where they're non-identical twins and have 50% of  the same genetic makeup basically those studies  

play05:02

have revealed pretty much the same thing. So  everybody agrees that it's about 50% genetics,  

play05:07

50% environment so it's both nature and  nurture. I don't think what i'm telling you  

play05:11

is groundbreaking, I think most people know this  anyway. So let's look at some of the environmental  

play05:27

factors i've covered some of this in a previous  video called why people offend. So in terms of  

play05:33

environmental factors, the one that cannot be  overstated I think is one of the most salient,  

play05:38

is having criminogenic peers. So if you grow up  in say like a gang or surrounded by gangs or even  

play05:45

family members who are committing crimes then you  model what you see right? you think that offending  

play05:50

is the norm uh your moral boundaries might be a  bit warped or you might feel peer pressure. You  

play05:56

might do things like shoplift or get into fights  uh just to look cool just to fit in with gang. So  

play06:02

if you lived in the ghettos of America or the  favelas of Brazil or like some of the rougher  

play06:07

estates in south London, i'm sure that's more  likely to happen than other posher leafy suburbs.  

play06:13

Poverty is another big factor. So if you grow  up in an area where there are not educational  

play06:18

opportunities and you know there's very few  legitimate ways of making a decent living,  

play06:24

then you're going to be more easily primed to turn  towards crime. Obviously there are exceptions. I'm  

play06:30

talking in a general sense. I suppose just general  parental boundaries and parental influences  

play06:36

help in terms of socializing people children so  that they have this kind of moral compass. Other  

play06:41

factors uh i've mentioned these before from my  other patients are things like being the victim  

play06:45

of physical abuse, witnessing domestic violence.  So if you're a child and you witness your parents  

play06:52

probably most commonly your father commit violence  regularly then you model that behavior as a way  

play06:57

of like conflict resolution or if you're the  victim of abuse you might build up all this  

play07:03

like potential anger and frustration that you  discharge when you're big enough and you might  

play07:07

feel that it's normal for relationships romantic  family or friendships even to have this power  

play07:14

dynamic where somebody has to be the abuser and  somebody has to be the victim and also personality  

play07:19

factors so if you're paranoid for example  because you grow up in violence then you're more  

play07:24

likely to kind of strike preemptively if somebody  looks at you the wrong way for example. Drugs and  

play07:30

substances in general alcohol included is also  a huge factor. So there's lots of different  

play07:34

mechanisms for example if you have the opportunity  to be a drug dealer because you go up around gangs  

play07:40

then it's a very attractive way of making a living  especially if you live in a really deprived area  

play07:46

where at best you might get minimum  wage. Drug dealers can make you know  

play07:50

thousands of pounds per night or per week it's  a very attractive business model and especially  

play07:57

if you stick to the first rule of drug dealing  which is don't get high of your own supply  

play08:01

then you can make huge amounts of money. If  you're careful um sorry that's my hamster or  

play08:06

the other rules of drug dealing which is no  income tax no vat no money backs no guarantee  

play08:12

and in terms of other types of mechanisms.  There's disinhibition so people who use substances  

play08:18

are more likely to be irritable, aggressive  and they don't think through the consequences  

play08:23

of their actions. I'm sure many of you watching  this have been intoxicated. I'm sure you know  

play08:27

what you're talking about, like that time you  did that thing with your work colleague um  

play08:31

and also addiction so people who are addicted feel  this huge craving they feel they need to go out  

play08:38

and make money it's no, it's no secret to know  that heroin addicts for example crack addicts  

play08:44

they go around commit robberies and burglaries  etc etc this is all fairly obvious stuff and then  

play08:50

there's my area of expertise which is mental  illness and personality factors. So I already  

play08:55

told you that story about the young woman the  tragic case where she killed her two-year-old  

play08:59

nephew. So that was driven by mental illness. The  other one i'll tell you about is Andrea Yates. I  

play09:05

mentioned her quite a lot. I've done videos on  her just because the case I think is fascinating  

play09:10

and you should go check out my videos. So she  also was suffering from psychotic delusions and  

play09:17

she killed five of her own children in 2001 in  Houston really sad case, really interesting from  

play09:23

the perspective of a forensic psychiatrist that's  delusions hallucinations which is the other common  

play09:29

symptom schizophrenia. I talked about this  in I think my hearing voices part two video  

play09:34

so there was this woman who had these  hallucinations, hearing the voice of  

play09:39

Drake the singer rapper and she was in London.  She believed that when he came on tour that she  

play09:44

was destined to meet him and he was whispering  into her ears that she was a princess that she  

play09:49

was swapped at birth and that she had this mission  where she had to swap cars with another woman. So  

play09:55

she went out with a machete, threatened a random  stranger, stole her car. That person called the  

play09:59

police she was arrested so i'm just giving you  an example of how specific psychiatric symptoms,  

play10:04

namely hallucinations, can lead to offending. That  is an environmental risk factor and then there's  

play10:11

just general personality factors not uh associated  with mental illness. So i've already talked about  

play10:16

being paranoid, being impulsive obviously  is a big one and also just having sort of  

play10:21

different social values to the rest of the  public. So let's talk briefly about the genetics  

play10:26

because we've talked a lot about the environmental  factors and I think the environmental factors are  

play10:31

quite obvious, easy to understand. So in terms of  genetics there's lots of clusters of genes and i'm  

play10:35

not going to tell you about them all because to  be frank it's a little bit boring and i'm a really  

play10:40

busy man. I've recently got um I was fortunate  enough to get an email from a Nigerian prince  

play10:45

and i'm going to inherit all his money so  I have to get on with this video because I  

play10:49

need to send him my bank account details. So what  i'm going to tell you about is the warrior gene,  

play10:54

so monoamine oxidase inhibitor is a type of enzyme  and it breaks down monoamine oxidases which are  

play11:02

neurotransmitters like serotonin which deals with  impulse control or dopamine which deals with mood  

play11:08

motivation, arousal and reward and also  noradrenaline which helps with our flight  

play11:14

or flight response. So if you've got a deficiency  of this monoamine oxidase then you don't have the  

play11:20

enzyme that breaks down these neurotransmitters so  they build up in your brain and we know that they  

play11:26

lead to aggression so mutant mice for example that  have a defect in this gene that have more of those  

play11:32

neurotransmitters are more aggressive to other  mice. So mutant aggressive mice clearly this is  

play11:39

the marvel action film that we're just dying to  see and also similarly in a study of American  

play11:44

boys from the age of 7 to 12 they found out that  the ones that have behavioral issues at school  

play11:48

also have higher levels of abnormal enzyme that  i'm talking about. Although there often has to  

play11:54

be other factors like problems at home as I said  before there are lots of other gene clusters um  

play11:59

that's probably the most famous one. Another one  I like to mention is called dat1 d81 as in oh I  

play12:05

want that one. So before I conclude this video,  I want to quickly introduce you to this channel.  

play12:10

My name is Dr Sohom das. I'm a Consultant Forensic  Psychiatrist. I assess mentally disordered  

play12:16

offenders in courts and prisons and secure  psychiatric units. This channel is all mines,  

play12:22

I dissect a whole range of issues related to  mental health and offending. I look at individual  

play12:28

diagnoses, I look at real true crime high  profile cases giving you my own expert insight.  

play12:35

I talk about my own cases occasionally although  I anonymize them so I don't get in trouble. I  

play12:40

interview ex-patients. What i'm trying to  say is there's something for everybody on  

play12:43

this channel. If you're a regular viewer you will  know that i'm speaking at CrimeCon which is a huge  

play12:48

crime convention coming over to London for the  first time. I'll be giving a talk on real life  

play12:53

cases i've seen people that have killed their own  family members. It's going to be fascinating. You  

play12:58

have to come. If you are coming use my code PSYCH  for 10% off your ticket because I got you homie.  

play13:03

Also i'm releasing a book in spring of 2022.  It's going to be called In Two Minds. It's kind  

play13:09

of autobiographical memoirs of my job and more  about my personal life. Go check it out. Okay  

play13:15

just to end i'm going to tell you about some  theories, some social theories and these kind  

play13:20

of overlap. I have to say, some of them seem a bit  obvious and because they overlap i'm not sure how  

play13:25

helpful they all are but i'm just telling you what  I know so the first one is risk versus benefit and  

play13:30

this is basically that everybody generally  makes sensible decisions for their lives  

play13:34

in their context. So whereas the average person  like you and me might not commit an armed robbery  

play13:39

if you're in a certain circumstance where you  really need money you've got the criminogenic  

play13:44

peers, you've got access to weapons, for you the  risk versus benefit might be worth it and maybe  

play13:50

certainly for some people I've worked with in  forensic psychiatry they don't really care about  

play13:54

jail. They're kind of built for prison they go  there they have friends and family that are there  

play13:59

and it's not such a big deal for them so  for them and their life is so co-chaotic and  

play14:04

horrible on the outside that actually for  them the risk versus benefit is worth it.  

play14:09

Then there's the strain theory which the theory  is that everybody kind of wants the same thing in  

play14:14

life which is to be successful for some stability  uh for um financial stability but some people  

play14:22

because they're environments like poverty, no  role models they're so stressed that they're  

play14:26

willing to take shortcuts so to me it's not that  different from the risk versus benefits but it is  

play14:30

a separate theory. So there's another one  called the social control theory which I  

play14:34

have to say is my favorite theory which is this  is, that crime is fun everybody wants to do it  

play14:39

inherently and everyone's capable of doing it but  we have these hurdles, we have these blockades in  

play14:44

doing it and they can be external like having  sort of strict parental boundaries or living in  

play14:50

an environment where that behavior is unacceptable  or internal like your own empathy your own morals  

play14:57

and your own self-esteem and because of  those things you don't commit those crimes  

play15:01

because the average person would not if they had  an opportunity to would not commit a crime. So for  

play15:06

example, i'm sure we've all been in a situation we  could have easily stolen the chocolate bar but we  

play15:09

didn't although I know that you did you stole the  snickers when you're 15 years old anyway that has  

play15:14

come to the end of my channel. The only thing I  have to say left is please subscribe not only does  

play15:19

it help me out immeasurably, but if you don't  I will tell the police about what happens when  

play15:24

that snickers bar when you're 15 years old i'm not  kidding. Okay all that remains for me to tell you  

play15:30

to stay euthymic and please whatever happens  do not forget, do not forget, i love you.

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