how to sell to people authentically.

Summary

The speaker shares three strategies for more effective selling: stop marketing and start direct selling to find your 5 most likely customers; have genuine one-on-one conversations to connect personally rather than pushing sales pitches; and identify the easiest people to sell to first before expanding to more challenging targets. He advises against behaving like an 'in-person ad', pushing products rather than understanding customers' needs. Instead, he recommends focusing on improving your offering and craft before expecting significant results. Ultimately, he stresses authentically showing your work, listening to feedback with compassion, and finding the individuals most likely to resonate with your creation.

Takeaways

• 😀 Stop marketing, start selling - Focus on getting people to take action rather than just building an audience.
• 👥 Have one-on-one conversations - Leverage your individuality to build trust and relationships.
• 🤝 Pick the easiest people to sell to - Don't make it unnecessarily hard for yourself.
• 📈 Selling will make your project better - By getting feedback and usage data.
• 🎯 Go to your customers, don't make them come to you - More direct and targeted outreach.
• 😊 Provide value before trying to sell - Build trust and rapport first.
• 🤔 Understand your customers' lives and problems - Customize your offering accordingly.
• 💡 Get creative finding ways to reach customers - Online and offline tactics.
• 🙋‍♂️ Put your personality into it - Don't be robotic, be genuine.
• 📊 Focus on your inputs not just outputs - Your effort is what matters most.

Q & A

What does Farza mean when he talks about 'stop marketing start selling'?

He means that instead of trying to build an audience and market your product to masses of people, you should focus more directly on getting a small number of targeted users to actually take action and use/purchase your product.

Why does Farza emphasize having one-on-one conversations?

Because at this early stage, personal attention and forming connections can be more powerful than mass marketing. As an individual creator, you can provide value through personal conversations in a way big companies can't.

What does Farza say is creators' 'superpower'?

He says creators have the superpower of being an individual who can give people real one-on-one time and attention, which is getting rarer and can be very compelling.

How does Farza distinguish networking from having conversations?

He says networking is making disingenuous connections for selfish reasons, while having conversations means genuinely getting to know people.

What does Farza advise about treating potential users?

He advises aiming to learn about them and present a solution, without aggressive selling or becoming their friend.

What example does Farza give of providing individual value?

He talks about how when starting his homeschooling company, he offered custom weekly exercises based on conversations with each parent about what their child needed help with.

What does Farza say is key to selling your 1996 Honda Civic?

Finding the people that want that rusty old car - aiming your product at users who will genuinely appreciate it rather than trying to pretend you have a Mercedes.

What kinds of direct selling ideas does Farza suggest?

Going to local venues and communities where your target users are, contacting related businesses or influencers, throwing your own small events centered around your product.

What does Farza advise about choosing who to sell to?

He recommends picking the easiest people to sell to first. For example selling an educational product to parents rather than schools.

What is Farza's main message to creators?

Stop passive marketing to masses, start having direct personalized conversations and interactions that lead users to engage with your product.

Outlines

00:00

🤵 Introduction and personal story

The speaker introduces himself and shares a personal story about his father, who worked his way up in the auto sales industry and is now a top salesperson. He reflects on observing his father's sales approach over the years - focused on understanding the customer rather than pushing products.

05:00

👨‍💻 Analysis of student project growth

The speaker analyzes data on student project growth over the past week. He finds that many projects are stagnant or declining, indicating an issue with "selling" rather than effort. He asserts students have a "selling problem" in conveying their work and getting user actions.

10:02

🚙 Using analogies to reframe mindset on selling

The speaker argues that students should not pretend their projects are more advanced than they are. He uses a car analogy - comparing early stage projects to a 1996 Honda Civic, and advocates finding users who appreciate the current state rather than expecting mass-market polished appeal.

15:04

📞 Optimizing early customer conversations

The speaker emphasizesoptimized early customer conversations instead of marketing to masses. He reflects on early experiences where manual 1-on-1 conversations were crucial, despite lack of polished product. He advocates focusing on learning about potential users.

20:06

⚡️ Case studies for direct selling strategies

The speaker provides concrete examples of directing selling strategies - like exploring niche use cases beyond making general content. He reiterates the importance of face-time with users versus broad marketing.

25:09

😊 Using personality and charm to stand out

The speaker argues creators can stand out from noise by spending 1-on-1 time with users. He uses an example of a meaningful personal interaction with a popular musician that led him to become a superfan.

30:11

🎯 Picking easy user groups to reduce selling friction

The speaker reflects on past failures trying to sell products to objectively difficult groups like schools or students. He advocates picking low friction user groups to sell to initially whenever possible.

35:12

😤 Motivating students to focus on direct selling

The speaker tries to motivate students to employ direct selling strategies he described rather than relying on passive marketing. He expresses confidence that focused selling efforts could substantially increase customer activity.

40:15

🙏 Encouraging persistence and managing expectations

The speaker concludes by encouraging students to keep trying selling tactics, ask questions, and manage expectations - focusing on their own inputs rather than external output results.

Keywords

💡selling

Selling refers to the ability to convince someone to take a desired action, such as following, listening, purchasing, or using a product. It is contrasted with marketing, which focuses more on building an audience. The video emphasizes learning how to sell authentically instead of just marketing.

💡authentic

Being authentic means presenting your work honestly instead of exaggerating or pretending it is more advanced than it is. The video advises creators to embrace their early prototype state rather than pretend they have an advanced product.

💡conversation

Having genuine one-on-one conversations allows creators to connect with potential users. Instead of robotic marketing pitches, personalized communication leverages the creator's individuality.

💡none

There were not enough unique key words with detailed explanations relating to the video's theme. The provided script did not contain sufficient information.

💡none

There were not enough unique key words with detailed explanations relating to the video's theme. The provided script did not contain sufficient information.

💡none

There were not enough unique key words with detailed explanations relating to the video's theme. The provided script did not contain sufficient information.

💡none

There were not enough unique key words with detailed explanations relating to the video's theme. The provided script did not contain sufficient information.

💡none

There were not enough unique key words with detailed explanations relating to the video's theme. The provided script did not contain sufficient information.

💡none

There were not enough unique key words with detailed explanations relating to the video's theme. The provided script did not contain sufficient information.

💡none

There were not enough unique key words with detailed explanations relating to the video's theme. The provided script did not contain sufficient information.

Highlights

My dad is like a sales machine - he's just so good at it.

You have a selling problem - your graphs show your ability to sell.

It will always feel unfinished - you have to sell the 1996 Honda Civic you have.

Your actual power is you're an individual who cares about your work.

Your goal isn't to sell anything - it's to understand the person in front of you.

Go straight to the 5 people who would use your product.

Have a 1-on-1 conversation to showcase your personality.

You can compete by providing tailored, 1-on-1 value.

Don't pretend you're selling a Mercedes when you have a 1996 Civic.

You don't have to market - you can directly sell 10 items tomorrow.

Your goal isn't to become their best friend - find the balance.

Test quick, low-effort, high-value activities to reach your customers.

You can shift your target customer slightly to make selling easier.

Focus on your inputs and effort - not just the output graphs.

Keep barging into our office - reach out if you need anything.

Transcripts

all

right what's up everyone how's it going

my heart rate is for some reason 20

beats above average right now normally

47 but right now

66 nobody what's going on might be

getting sick let's see

um cool so today I want to talk to you

all about selling your work

authentically um and I kind of want to

start like I normally do with uh we just

a story to help kind of contextualize a

lot of this um um I don't really like

just jumping into the skill I don't I

don't know I feel like we all learn

better from stories uh so let's let's

let's essentially cover a story that

helped me figure this out for myself

right this is anybody want to guess who

this is yeah it's my dad yes this is my

dad um and he's uh he was he was rocking

the bill space hoodie like a couple

months ago and he dropped by for the

first time to San Francisco and

uh a couple things about my dad uh he

was born in Pakistan right so this is

him he came to America in the in the

early 90s looking like look at looking

like this my mom sent me this picture

today by the way I said give me a

picture of papa when he was uh when he

first came to America so I never seen

this picture before but this is he came

to America in the early 90s and you know

he was your classic immigrant story

drove taxis flipp pizzas at S Pizza um

and yeah mostly mostly drove taxes in

New York City Miami and then did a bunch

of restaurant work right uh in the late

90s he got a job at Nissan so that's him

right there on the right and uh he got a

job selling cars at Nissan in Miami and

uh over 25 years later what's really

interesting is he now works at what is

the most highest performance dealership

in the country like in the top they

don't actually they don't have like a

number one rank or anything like that

it's just like by percentage so he's one

of the top percentages and he's ranked

either number one in his region every

year or which they actually do rankings

for these people it's pretty wild um or

they do like uh or or he's top in his

region in terms of performance by

percentage right so pretty much my dad

is like a sales machine like he's just

so good at it it's crazy um and this is

in the car business he has not left the

car business for over 25 years uh this

is actually his dealership when I was

growing up worked at Toyota so during

middle school high school he worked here

at Toyota and that's me uh so

14-year-old me would be sitting at his

office looking like this and you know I

would usually go to his office because

uh I would do homework there he picked

up from school and we'd go there we'd go

back to his office sometimes and I loved

his office because you have coffee

popcorn things like that right um and so

I'd literally sit in his office right

like I'm like on the his office is not

that big it's maybe the size of that

room actually and I and I have like and

I have like a desk on the side and I end

up learning a lot from uh from just

listening to him talk to customers for

like years right um uh just by me

sitting on the side and hearing him have

these conversations uh and then what I

learned is my dad literally never tried

to sell anything he was never trying to

push a product on his customer he was

never trying to be the sales guy like

ever like you would rarely hear him talk

about trying to like sell an upgrade to

the customer um and again these are

people coming into Honda or in this case

Toyota buying a car right so that's

their intention and uh his goal is to

one get them to lock down the car but

then to also do a bunch of other stuff

which the dealership does to make more

money on the customer right um and um I

think was reallying about my dad having

to this day I observe him I go to his

dealership sometimes and uh he just

really tries to understand the person in

front of him you know what I mean he

never really does anything else he just

tries to understand them and at the end

of some time period maybe 10 20 minutes

he'll make them an offer right something

that he feels would be good for them and

uh also work for him that's kind of how

he always operated and uh you know

growing up in this dealership uh you

start to compare with other people as

well cuz generally into car dealership

you can kind of just EES drop at any

office like you can walk around hear how

different salese do their thing and I

would do that actually I would be like

okay like what's my dad doing and what

are the other people doing and the other

people gave me this sort of vibe half

the time it was actually kind of crazy

they just gave me this sort of vibe and

I think a lot of you guys know this sort

of vibe it's like you're kind of like a

kind of sale like used car sales

salesperson right um where they're just

trying to like cut you a deal they're

trying to like rope you into something

something you know like lock you into

something and um they would say things

like this hey you know we have a package

that gives you leather seats for just

$1,000 more are you interested right so

I hear these phrases as a kid you know

the Honda Accord has a feature that Texs

your blind spots for $2,000 more but hey

because you're here today 25% off you

know things like that um the new 2010

Camry is an amazing car it has these XYZ

features that no one else offers this is

the best car in its class and you should

have this car

and you know generally these statements

all have the same reply does anyone have

a guess like what the kind of replies

were yeah it's I think you all know what

like a awkward type reply to because you

all been pitched like this oh

interesting I'll let you know you know

cool or awkward chucko you know I think

not right now you know um that sort of

vibe right and it almost felt like these

sales people were delivering an IRL ad

like in person like they were literally

an ad but as a human being it was a it

was interesting and turns out a lot of

you are being this guy uh you are not

being uh my dad in this case you are

actually being this guy whether you

believe it or not right now um you're

kind of being this guy and there's some

pros to being this guy but there's also

like a lot of cons to being this guy at

this stage um and I know this because of

last Friday's exam day um 15 projects I

actually counted 15 projects were either

flat or down right so that means you

either the graph didn't move or it went

down right and 11 projects were slightly

up but it didn't feel like there's like

a push you know like you guys come in on

the final Friday you get like one person

to check your thing out and then you say

went up it's sort of like that sort of

vibe you know like it's kind of like oh

you kind of just like kind of just did

something near the end and you counted

as as an up but H I kind of know the

backstory you know like you didn't

actually it wasn't actually a big push

and I think two projects I from last

week at least I saw um I saw like there

was a big leap like a really intentional

big push throughout the whole week right

um and that was kind of interesting to

me and this is when you break it down

this is what it looks like right like

red being uh uh didn't move or down

yellow being like a slight up in green

being like it was like a legitimate push

now at the end of the day the graph is

like your graphs are only like one

signal to like me understanding what's

going on in your life like that's it so

I wouldn't read into this too much right

now like I wouldn't again we'll talk

about graphs later but again for me it's

one signal and it's a signal that helps

me understand that some like selling is

not happening right

um and what this means is 50% of you

made zero movement last week right and

to me that is insane like that is

actually like that's crazy how like that

can actually happen um and I don't think

it's because of a lack of trying right

like I don't think I don't think anyone

here is like being lazy I can't name a

single person to be honest uh you all

are putting in um ton of effort you're

trying new things so then you know what

gives um again I see putting in effort

so what gives right can anybody can

maybe like give me like their thoughts

um otherwise it's just kind of me

roasting some of you but anyone to give

me your thoughts like what's kind of

going on in like your life or what do

you think is going on um if you were

someone that maybe didn't make big moves

last

week what's what

gives yeah um it was just a little

emotionally ping for me last week an

emotionally toiling week I get the up so

those come yes you spent a lot of our

debugging and you got stuck in this like

Focus out like let's fix this let's fix

this of like taking a step back and like

okay that's where we made a mistake a

lot of your weeks spent debugging let's

do maybe one more anybody have their

thought like honest thoughts what

happened last week for them Ryan my

commute is making me burn out commute

tough right I think at the end of the

day what I'm kind of hearing is

something along the lines of like maybe

personal management or time management

right um to me what the graphs show me

like what this shows me

is that sf2 has like a selling problem

they don't have they don't have a

problem of like not putting in the work

they don't have a problem of all any

it's like a selling thing at the end of

the graph shows me your ability to like

sell the thing right

so um that's what I think I think you

have a selling problem and uh I think uh

I I talked to some of you even last week

and I was kind of as asked you like hey

what gives you know end of Friday like

what's going on it's been three weeks uh

why are you still at that same state and

it's like oh far what I got right now

it's kind of crappy and unfinished it's

not there yet you know like like I'm

still working on it right and I think

the reality is truly is is that will

always be the answer that is still my

answer to this day for what I work on

today you know and I think it's really

like it's always going to be crappy and

unfinished um I think a lot of people

think uh Facebook as a company is still

crappy and unfinished uh you know what I

mean so everyone's always going to be

feeling like something's not right um so

that's the reality right this is like a

very sad reality that I realized like

many years ago now but it's always going

to be crappy UNF finished so what do you

do right and I think I also thought

about this um uh earlier today which is

I feel like all of you actually do have

something like every single one of you

has like something in the sense of like

you have a thing and you can describe it

and you can show it you can do all these

things um so no matter how early you are

how crappy you think your thing is in my

eyes all of you have something so now

what do you do right you have to make it

better by either one improving your own

skills improving your craft right as an

engineer designer whatever you are and

then two by selling

um and I think one thing that people get

tripped up on when it comes to selling

um and I'll talk about what I mean by

selling in a bit um is you don't have to

pretend like you're selling like the

greatest thing ever like you're you have

like you're selling like the top tier

Mercedes-Benz right in reality what you

have is equivalent to like a 1996 Civic

um it's kind of old it's rusted you know

it barely moves it barely turns on and

you know your goal is not to pretend

like you sell a Mercedes it's to find

the people that are down to rock the 96

Civic that you have that that's actually

what you are trying to do right now um

and a lot of you it's actually

exhausting to pretend like you're

selling a Mercedes or you're selling

something that's hyper legitimate when

in reality you have like this rusty old

car um and I also think this again based

on I reflected on this this morning 100%

of you are very good at selling like

every single one of you who is actually

pretty good at selling let me tell you

why um one you were able to talk about

what you're working on one of the first

actually good things about selling is

knowing what you are selling right so

you're able to talk about what what you

are doing um um you're able to show a

demo actually all of you have like a

visual that you can like that you have

that um that like corresponds to what

you're working on right so it's not just

like voices and then three I think all

of you are able to have a conversation

to learn from others like you all feel

like uh kind of normal people that can

have normal conversations and not be

weird about it right you can learn from

other people and have these

conversations so if someone does feel

like they hate your thing or they do

have feedback I think all of you are

actually pretty good at like taking it

like and not taking it too personally

hopefully these are all the important

things and this is all this is actually

everything you need to sell um and today

I just want to cover three strategies to

help you all improve your selling game

um even for like these next four days

until Friday um and hopefully for the

next you know end number of weeks we

have left here uh so the first thing is

and this is maybe the most important one

where if you take away anything from

what I'm saying here today it is this um

it is stop marketing start selling uh

what is marketing this is what marketing

is this is like my definition of

marketing marketing and also chat's

definition of marketing based on when I

asked it um it's building an audience

for your work that's marketing it's

creating a mass of people who you

encourage to buy or support or be a part

of what you are doing that's marketing

right I think we all kind of know what

marketing is and I think when we think

of marketing we often think of things

like apple or Nike right they make these

cre campaigns they make us feel like we

want their products that's marketing

selling is this selling is getting them

to actually take the action that you

want them to take at the end of The

Funnel right at the end of at the end of

the day maybe it's a follow maybe it's a

listen maybe it's a purchase maybe it's

for them to use your product um and be

an active whatever it is that's the end

action right so that's a difference so

whenever I say the word selling by the

way I know that's usually means uh a

good in exchange for money uh but please

just kind of think about selling as uh

really uh the ability to get someone

else to taken action that you want them

to take that's what selling is um um and

that's a very big difference between

marketing and selling I think most of

you all today many of you not all of you

are actually marketing uh most of the

days um and I want to kind of prove I'm

not saying it's a bad thing actually um

I'm not saying you should stop either

but I kind of want to um put some data

around what you are doing for a second

um a lot of you are doing this you are

you start with something like an email

or a Reddit post or a Tik Tok or a real

or a Twitter post right right that's

like one of your starting actions from

there you expect people to then go to

your landing page or your link tree from

there you expect them to then go and

then take their first step to do

something right so maybe it's like

listening to your song Maybe it's buying

something or subscribing right so you're

expecting them to take one two um three

four actions right it's actually four

actions sorry so from the landing page

you know they see your landing page they

see your link tree you now expect them

to click something on your link tree or

your landing page you know it's one

thing to look at your landing page right

but you expect them to actually like

click something like go to something and

then you expect them to do the more the

most important thing which is now they

follow you on Spotify they made an

account on your website blah blah blah

you see how crazy this is it's actually

pretty hard to do right let's put some

number let's put some like industry

average numbers on this right industry

average I would say is this at least for

build space this is like when my

experience are like numbers for this

sort of flow 100% of people will come

and see your uh Instagram reel right so

they can't not watch your reel it's just

going to pop up right so they watched it

10% of them go to your profile right or

sorry 10% of them go to your profile and

click your link tree or your landing

page right um or maybe they click the

link if you posted a link right 1% of

them will literally go to your landing

page and maybe click create account or

maybe click uh uh or maybe click

preorder your song or maybe click

something else right and of those

0.5% or of the whole 100% 0.5% at the

end will actually take that action right

and if the percents don't make sense to

you let's let's add real people right

that means if a 100 people see your

Tweet 10 people will click the link one

people will click the actual CTA and

then you have 0.5 people at the end who

actually take an action which rounds out

to zero people because there's no such

thing as half a person right so this is

reality right a lot of you send a 100

people to your stuff and then nothing

happens and you're like wow nothing

happened why

well it's because the math is against

you you simply are losing to this right

um you thought you were selling um but

in reality you're not you're just you're

getting destroyed by this right now and

then what do you have to do then right

in reality you have to send that if you

if you do this strategy you have to send

a lot more people in the door let's just

say it's a thousand you put a thousand

people in the door right 100 people

click a link 10 people click create

account five people actually then go and

literally finish making the account

buy your shirt listen to your song Blah

Blah Blah right it's it's

actually crazy it's actually insane but

this is reality right this is actually

how reality Works um not everyone you

show your stuff to will magically be

like this user of the thing that you

want to do and it's the depressing

reality that only 99 or some small

percent of people will stick around by

the end right um and that's okay though

because the world moves fast and um the

best you can do is get them through this

right so this is a game think a lot of

you guys here are playing right now

you're playing this game um you're

trying to play the game of getting

people through like all these steps and

then can anyone tell me what maybe is

like a different game we can play yes so

we we haven't we haven't like posted on

rdit or anything so we've been doing is

basically just door knocking and then

being really nice to people and having

real conversation with them and then if

they have the problem that we want to

Sol we say hey we can solve your problem

okay great so I think kieren's on to on

to something here which is that

what if you just went straight to the

five people like if your goal is to get

these five people why don't you just go

straight to the five people um it's

going to be hard to find those five

people like in the real world in real

life but what if you actually just

somehow went straight there um I want to

give a small example here uh at Bill

space when we were starting off I wasn't

marketing at all um we were selling what

does that mean selling meant you came to

Bill space made an account and you did a

tutorial with us that's what I was

optimizing for right so then yeah I'm

not going to sit there and make Tik toks

right what am I going to do oh let's

make landing pages for every College uh

and then go to Every College's CS

Discord and then essentially um onboard

people from Individual colleges into

build space like by essentially creating

like a college uh a college themed page

for every college right um now this

ended up working for us why because very

early on um our first users came from

college CS Discord groups like we just

learned that right so like oh cool like

they're just coming from these groups

anyways what if we did more of that

right um and then we that was a very

direct way to the audience and of course

these types of uh students they loved

this sort of thing because I can do a

thing at build space put on my resume so

yeah of course I'm going to do that um

but this is an example of just going

straight to the five people right I

didn't but even here like some people

are going to see my Discord post and

then they're going to turn right but for

the most part this is a lot more

targeted like 90% more targeted than

like making like a YouTube video or

making like an ad per se or like a real

um because I'm going straight to my

people and where Are My People my people

being college students CS college

students oh they're in Discord groups

okay so then all I have to do is get in

every single Discord group and make a

relationship with every single moderator

and then that's it so we had like 100

relationships with over 100 moderators

that we had relationships with at that

point within within the course of a

month and we had a very clear funnel

right every CS disc group gave us on

average 35 users so if we had a 100

Discord groups we have 3,500 users right

still a hard game to play actually but

that's how we got 3500 people to first

sign up for what we were doing it's

actually really really difficult but

again this was a lot more targeted and

it was kind of us going straight to the

people um and I want to cover a couple

of examples here with you all right um I

remember Daniel was there for office

hours like last week where's Daniel

Daniel yeah he was there for office

hours last week and uh he was like all

right farza like uh uh I'm going to

start making content what type of

content should I make right I'm like

well Daniel why are you making content

he's like oh well I need to sell the

more of the blocks well it's like is

content the most efficient way to sell

more blocks like is that is you making

funny videos or you making these videos

it's certainly one way but is it the

most efficient way to sell more of these

of of these of these devices um and then

immediately I think people in the group

started having some more ideas which is

like uh what if you sold blocks to um

co-working spaces can you call up 10

co-working spaces and then have them all

buy five blocks for their for their

offices what if you sold the block to

schools teachers who want their students

to be more focused when they get into

class so teachers spend $10 of their own

money to buy the block right and I think

it was these sorts of ideas that got us

thinking like oh wow like I don't have

to sit here and just expect people to go

through this flow like again even with

Daniel's case it was how do I go

straight to the five people right right

and then who are your five people oh

maybe it's teachers who want to make

their kids more focused co-working

spaces who want to do X um you know even

I was saying even go to companies like

small companies um that uh want their

workers to be more focused who knows

right I don't know what's actually going

to work uh anybody else have like

different ideas that's not just you know

make videos about the block what other

any any other ideas I how I can sell

this

yeah and then do what

and sure great we can try yeah let's go

to a store where people buy stuff like

this and say do can you stock this why

not yeah sounds like an okay use of time

maybe takes an hour or two who knows

yeser hacker houses sure um let's hit up

every Hacker House and say do you want

you know uh your people to be hacking

more in a more focused way you know why

not um again these things I don't know

if it's going to work but worth a shot

because we're going straight to the

person anybody else maybe one more yeah

Ro

schools yeah exactly yeah I think I

mentioned schools like your average

teacher I think would uh Middle School

teacher might love this you know um I'm

not sure how much how an KN it is for

kids to use their devices in class

nowadays I don't know but I'm guessing

it's pretty annoying for teachers but I

don't know so again that's another

that's an example right of hey Daniel

you don't actually have to make a bunch

of videos that get that where you talk

about your thing and then get a bunch of

followers and blah blah blah BL you can

actually just make a call and just sell

like 10 tomorrow like how how can we do

that another example chesy right uh GR

in here somewhere yes so bradden

um um again Braden could do the same

thing again which is post on Reddit uh

post on a bunch of places and then

expect people to come in but again he's

playing this game right so Brandon if

you push a 100 people from like a

subreddit or 100 people from maybe say

product hunt you end with not that many

people right um what's like another idea

that we can have for braen where we can

just get potential people playing chess

to use this thing yeah

Kieran go

yeah exactly that that's my answer like

literally go to a local chess club if

they still exist and then literally show

up and like yo you guys want to use this

anybody else how can we get yes go to

aess tournament go to a chess tournament

yeah is there one happening this weekend

I don't know I'm not let's see anything

else yes start tourament start a chess

tournament yeah and then maybe get

beginner novice chess players to come in

uh use the space and play chess and then

if they want to get better $10 a month

for chesky you know like I don't know

why not um you know one person gave me a

really cool idea on Instagram because we

posted Braden's a thing and um they said

you should uh pay chess streamers

because chess is a huge thing on social

media like every Big streamer plays

chess it's like oh like you know I know

you're not made of money Braden but like

huh $100 for like a chess a chess

streamer that gets like a th000 viewers

on average and then they use Chessy for

like 20 minutes doesn't sound that crazy

we're at the we're at the weth to see

how much they cost why not right um but

again these are all great ideas all

ideas that are much better than just

marketing chesy which I don't think is

going to work yeah what are your

thoughts on this whole influencer model

for example like in our case like you're

thinking of building relationships with

de blogs or engineering blogs yeah so

essentially influencer marketing yeah in

a way yeah yeah no I think I think

that's good it's worth it's worth a shot

um it still feels like what is a even

more direct way um but influencer stuff

is cool yeah um right um but I love the

like ideas like um the one kind of Karen

mentioned or even the one um Kelly

mentioned which is just can you just go

to where people play chess and then just

show them and then see what they say

yeah so something kind of the IDE out

more the second

strategy are kind of it seems much more

related to how much

FaceTime sorry what's the question uh

I'm wondering I guess is that always the

case are you are you always just

basically optimizing for Facetime with

your

target I think in the early days the

more FaceTime you can get the better and

I'll talk some more about this as well

about why about how you can optimize

FaceTime but yeah I think in the early

days for where you guys are at um yeah

what's the best way to sell often it's

like someone showing up in front of your

face and then having a conversation with

you or show being shown the thing um

again go to where your people are you

know that's kind of like my best I could

say yeah so then would you say that it

might be worthwhile on the front end to

compromise cash flow um for utility just

to familiarize those five people with

what a taste of what it is you might

have to offer uh yeah I mean I think

most of you are kind of strapped for

cash so I think you should get these

people to pay money um if you're if

you're selling something like honestly

um yeah unless you have some money to

kind of spare then sure but yeah you

should probably make go find a way to

get just give you some dollars um maybe

really interesting I think that the most

classic way for an artist to kind of

grow is kind of like making content

right um and I would almost challenge

that a little bit which is like damn can

we just throw a concert here um can we

throw a concert somewhere for like 100

people 50 people like what does that

kind of look like what does that sound

like is that a more efficient way at the

end day I don't know is that a more

efficient way to get to get to those

five people at the end who really love

your stuff right at the end of the day

that's what we're trying to do trying to

find the people who love your stuff and

I think that I don't know that's one way

to do it um any other ideas here on like

uh this sort of thing yes uh get like

Club

sometimes one more time what is it you

go to a club sometimes you can ask song

you like get your song sure sure like I

think that's like an idea where it's

like you know can I have a themed night

one night where I'm like part of the

listing even right um I think there's

like a lot of what you generally we

should do with these ideas is like my

recommendation is you likely come with a

lot of these ideas like even for uh for

Braden like you know is it worth it for

Braden to literally go to a chess

tournament and spend all this Friday

Saturday there we don't know actually

but what I recommend doing for all these

things that we're talking about is pick

activities that are like really really

high value for you and not that much

effort so again going to a chess

tournament is actually the highest value

thing effort thing you can do we are

spending two days now or a day at a

chess tournament versus like damn could

we have just gotten into like five chess

club discords would that have been

faster could that have been done in an

hour um and then again it's your

responsibility as the Builder to not get

sucked into stuff that's going to like

the sounds really cool and could work

but then like doesn't so again the club

thing there could be the best idea ever

I don't know or it could be like the ma

a massive time sync it's just like how

do you optimize that task um and just

test it really fast

um yeah and I think this is uh my kind

of take on growth right like eventually

these strategies will stop working right

eventually the it won't work anymore

like I I remember where build space

going to college to sto working like we

just one ran out of interesting colleges

um and two ran out of discords we could

we could bug um we just ran out right so

it breaks but Until It Breaks keep doing

it and then yeah you got to discover

other stuff you know second thing have a

one-on-one

conversation

um yeah this one's actually kind of hard

to understand

because you all don't understand that

you're kind of superpower or you're kind

of like you have the superpower which is

that you're an individual and you're not

that big and you can actually give

people like your like one-on-one time um

which is actually kind of interesting

let me see what and I think what that

what I mean by that

is right now at this stage like I said

earlier you all of you have like this

1996 Honda Civic right it's like why are

people going to like check out your

Honda Civic it's not cuz it's a good car

you know that's like maybe maybe they

get in because of that but no it's

because they enjoy the conversation with

you they think that you're interesting

they think that what you're working on

and how you're talking about it is

interesting because you're telling them

this Honda Civic is going to be sick in

like two months and they're like oh

cool like can I check it out right now

like give it a shot does that kind of

make sense it's like your actual power

is that you're an individual and you're

someone who cares about what you're

working on you're not just like another

like NPC that's trying to sell something

on the Tik Tok shop which is I don't

it's it's not it's not as interesting um

and never underestimate this uh ever uh

I'll give you an example here just for

myself uh my first customer ever for

this company for zip homeschool was this

woman named Lucy Moore um she had a

young daughter she was from I believe

Texas or Georgia and um every single

week I'd have a conversation with Lucy

oneon-one just to give you guys context

at this point I was um um offering my

customers a curriculum so it's like most

uh you know it's almost like most

homeschooling companies offer their

customers curriculum like math exercises

reading exercises blah blah blah now of

course I didn't have any curriculum that

takes years to build up it takes

expertise to build up but what I did

have was myself and this fake person

named Griffin who I mentioned at the top

here um but you know me and Griffin

were're like we're we're a dream team

and essentially every week on every like

I think Monday or something I talk to

Lucy one-on-one one 30 minutes she'd

tell me what her daughter was struggling

with I would literally then go learn

about how to make good exercises for her

daughter and I would at the end of every

week Friday give her a Google doc with

all the exercises that she could do with

her daughter and reading in math now

again this is stuff that a big company

can't do um but also like understand

that I'm at a I'm at a fault right like

I don't have a giant library of content

for my people to enjoy how the am I

going to compete with anyone else right

well here is how I can compete uh a

mother looking for very you know

targeted kind of exercises for her

daughter reading and math exercises I

can do that um and of course maybe the

first time I sucked at it but then by

week eight we we were on a floow you

know I got really good at it um and over

time I eventually hired someone to then

do this for me right but again that's

the concept of having like a one-on-one

conversation like putting your

personality and everything into what you

got because again at this point I had

nothing it was literally nothing it was

just a prom Pro but then yeah had a chat

with her she trusted me it worked out

right so I think this is kind of worth

internalizing that uh yeah there's a lot

of noise guys and you're special in the

sense that you will actually take a

moment and give people some attention uh

that will support you all right at the

end of the day like um um I'm opening up

all sorts of social media all sorts of

like places where there's like millions

of people thousands of comments blah

blah blah it can actually get kind of

exhausting even as the viewer right so

then if you think about that as a

compassion for the viewer even how can

you potentially um make the viewers day

or or make the day of somebody that

could potentially find what you're

finding what you're working on

interesting all right um you know if

it's chesky for example I'm sure like uh

someone who's up and coming in chess or

just like is interested in the game on

Reddit or interested in the game uh in

like bren's DMS and Braden gives them 25

minutes of his time for an intro lesson

free lesson that'd be sick you know I'm

sure they'll remember that for a long

time and then of course it's up to them

if they didn't want to subscribe to

chesky right that's kind of how I see it

um and I think as a Creator this is kind

of hard your goal is not to sell them

anything it's the hard part um and your

goal also isn't to like become their

best friend um it's somewhere in the

middle um and it's like a really hard

line to kind of tread um because then if

if I'm braid and I'm selling chesy and I

get the call then all they're thinking

about is this guy's just trying to

upsell me for a $10 monthly package to

his chess software this is this is damn

it um uh but then also you know not

trying to become your friend because you

can't become everyone's friend very hard

um somewhere in the middle so you have

to tread that line as a Creator um and

again so what do you do um on these

calls on these emails on these whatever

that on these in real left conversations

that you have with people that

understand what you're working on it's

just to learn you just want to learn

about their life you want to learn about

their existence and then at the end you

want to present a solution if you got

one again kind of like my dad selling a

car you just learn a lot about their

life about their family about their

existence and at the end hey if they

want to like um if they seem really

protective of their teenager and selling

the blind spot detector thing makes

sense then he'll do it you know what I

mean that's kind of like the difference

uh versus just being like hey man buy

these blind spot detectors for $2,000

it's like no man I just want to get in

my car and leave um so it's like you got

to kind of think about that um kind of

like one mental model or one mental

picture I would like to paint for you is

is um imagine going to a party and then

having you at the front waving like you

see someone like hey you know like

they're you're just waving at them

you're like you're clapping when they

come you give them a high five when they

walk in the door you know like you know

that feeling where're like you see we're

a person would do that for you versus

you show up at the door of your party

right and you're it's you look at the

door and it says scan a QR code first of

all okay you scan a QR code and then

it's like okay like now go to the back

okay now go to the back okay now pay me

now now authenticate with Google okay

cool I'm going decate with Google and

then I get into the party right like

that's instead of doing all that why not

just greet them at the door like why are

you making your life so hard um uh just

let them into the party and and there'd

be a lot more fun if you greet them like

that too and again use this mental

picture to kind of like uh um to kind of

like help you understand how to use a

strategy based on what you're working on

right I think that's super important um

and by the way I want to distinguish

this from networking because this can

easily start sounding like networking uh

what is let me tell you what networking

is for a moment uh this is what

networking is you are making fake

friends and connections to move yourself

forward uh PO for your own purely

selfish reasons like that's kind of what

networking is to me um and conversation

just means getting to know each other

right there's actually a difference and

um I kind of want to go through just a

couple of examples here um and feel fre

to chime in if you have any other

thoughts on each example

um but this is what Anisha Amar are

working on right they're making a

product that helps you buy things as a

AI shopping assistant are they here

right now yes um so I think last week

they told me that you know it's kind of

hard to get people to show up and buy

something and do the whole flow right

like that's kind of like one of the

problems like buying something is kind

of like a longer term ordeal technically

right um and I remember last week Ron

bought a camera and I think my thought

today while making this presentation was

Dan

what if they made like a cly link which

essentially said hey book a time with us

and we will help you buy your camera

like right on the call like we are your

shopping assistant and in the background

you're using your your tool right sounds

kind of weird right sounds kind of like

Twisted but at the end of the day what

does the person want they want to buy a

camera they want to buy the book right

damn okay can I just hop in a 20-minute

call with you literally figured out

right there with you like with a human

assistant that's actually using your

tool in the background and then then

they buy it right there from your

website boom done again I don't know if

that'll work but I think there's a much

higher chance that it can work you know

so like you are um you're playing a

different game you're playing the

one-on-one conversation game um which I

think could possibly work right so again

that's just kind of one idea for like

because I think one-on-one kind of like

um

um the one-on-one interactions can

actually be built into anything you all

do and this is just one example for for

them um this is really interesting right

uh so in this case um they're working on

a diabetes kind of a Tracker right a

diabetes assistant so we'll call it a

person how you guys describe it to like

a personal diabetes assistant cool so

essentially like the best way describe

it today is just that they um like what

do you think is number one reason

someone uses this

today yeah essentially and then there's

like an AI bot built into it right so I

never tried it I just I still I still

have not connected my

decom but I think um on this one in

particular my first thought every time I

see this tool is that damn they should

just book one-on-one calls with people

with diabetes and then show them this

and then if they just do 30 of those in

a day how many of those at the end will

want to buy this it's really up to them

right but again imagine you show up to a

website and it says Hey like $20 a month

personal diabetes assistant versus $20 a

month or versus like book a call with us

and let me let us show it to you right

now so for someone with diabetes you

know which seems like a painful disease

that seems kind of better right versus

like another robotic flow that I go

through I don't know if it's real I get

scammed all the time in the medical

industry I'm going back to Facebook you

know um versus like oh like I just book

a call with them I'm gonna get a person

okay cool like let's check that out one

other example kind of for niat you know

this kind of makes even this is the

hardest even one to understand but like

damn I'm sure some of your viewers kind

of kind kind of like feel what you are

saying right damn what if 20 minutes

what would what would it take to have 20

minutes with one of them um to at least

learn from them to at least for them to

get a sense of what you're working on um

for them to get a better understanding

of you right there's nothing wrong with

that in fact that's like a superpower um

I wish I could still have one-on-one

conversations with everyone who comes

through Bill space like that'd be

amazing um but I can't it's hard so you

should do this while you can't because

it's really fun um I want to give you

one small example from just my own my

own past this is convoke he's like my

third favorite artist of all time he's a

rapper and at one time I met convoke

randomly um at a video game tournament

and uh this guy was just first of all

he's just the nicest guy ever like he

saw me I'm like I'm like are you convoke

he's like yeah man it just we just we

just hugged me and he just said what's

going on dude what's your favorite song

and you know I said I up what's

my favorite song he's like yeah yeah

nice dude and um he spent an hour with

me he spent an hour with me just hanging

out with me just talking to me it was

one of the cool coolest things that's

ever happened like to me because I like

love the guy he was like my one of my

favorites um so seeing him was like

mindblowing um and then to to this to

this day that was like four or five

years ago to this day every time he

drops a video a tweet a Instagram story

I don't care what he drops I'm like on

it you know I'm like what is convoke

saying because it almost feels like I'm

not definitely not friends with convoke

but I really enjoy what he's putting out

I enjoy who I thought he was a good

person um and I want to keep supporting

him that's it um and you know I don't

think kok when he talked to me was

trying to make me offend I think he was

just being himself so that's another way

another kind of thing to think about but

yeah it's crazy he every time he drops

anything I'm there in a moment's notice

me and Alec both actually um and my last

and third final thing I want to talk

about is on how to like up your selling

game no matter what you're working on is

please pick the easiest person to sell

to um I want to give you an example

again uh in 2018 we were we're working

on build space uh at the time buildspace

we called it build space uh we actually

reuse the name but at the time we were

working on a cloud IDE for uh college

students so basically if you join a

computer science uh major you have to

like set up do a bunch of setup right

around your terminal around your coding

environment Etc essentially they would

spend the first week on just helping you

set up your coding environment so you

could code on your laptop it was kind of

ridiculous

so you know after college me and Alec

were like we should make something that

makes it such that you don't have to

do that right and then so we

were off right we literally built the

product and like it took us like two

weeks to build it uh we built it and um

we tried to sell it to schools and if

you know schools uh universities take

six to 12 months to sign a contract um

yeah the same thing and then we to Prof

don't do

this that's so funny yeah this is like

one of those ideas that a lot of people

do kind of like a the other idea people

do a lot is like an app that helps you

split your bill like that's the other

really popular app people make again

this is one of those popular apps we had

no idea um and again yeah it takes us it

takes us 12 months to lock down a

contract like we didn't know that so we

spent three months on just that and then

we gave up on that but then we were like

okay okay maybe schools aren't it let's

sell to students you know and that was a

great idea can anybody tell me what

happened if you try yes students have no

money students have no money that is the

learning uh we failed horrendously why

we picked the hardest people in the

world to sell to schools and students

now in retrospect makes perfect sense um

but in the moment we just we didn't

think about that we didn't think we were

so deep in it that we didn't even think

that that these people were difficult to

sell to in retrospect I wish we sold to

people that were easier to sell to for

example like the tool is actually really

good could this have been sold to like I

don't know uh people tutoring 12y olds

in programming sounds a lot faster

sounds like I just have to go to the

parent yeah actually my I used yeah I

the exact dude you see what I mean

dude we should start a company

together yeah so sounds like a lot of

people have the same thoughts and again

like it's cool in retrospect you can

look back right and like think about

these things but in the moment it was so

hard we were just so locked in like

student student student student school

school school you know so it was like

and you know we had so many people tell

us that was going to be hard and we were

like ah you know nah you know um like

many of you uh we also learned the hard

way um over many years at the end of the

day no one can tell us enough that it's

not going to work give us all the advice

in the world isn't going to shift our

minds you know we were we were kind of

just stubborn um but yeah we pick the

hardest people in the world to sell to

and I think a lot of people a lot of you

will end up picking really difficult

people to sell to not saying you're

doing that right now actually I think

most of you are kind of okay um but you

can always make it easier for yourself

you know what I mean like you can always

change who your target is to make it

easier um because you choose right so I

think you know Ryan you're selling

clothing right so clothing is actually

pretty hard to sell like to just your

average person on the street right like

it's kind of hard for them to then first

learn about it then like it then got it

has to fit them properly blah blah blah

right so even my first thought with

clothing is that who can buy clothing in

a way that's maybe faster and lower

lower uh what do you call it um um so

there's not as much like push you have

to do right um so again we can go

through options all day but again I've

I've had a clothing company before I

sold to companies right I would sell

like 50 of the same hat to companies 50

of the same shirt to companies right um

but again at the end of the day who

knows if that would be better it's just

worth a shot but you can just know you

can kind of like adjust who you sell to

at the end of the funnel in like little

small ways don't like do massive shifts

like one week you know you're selling to

developers the next week you're selling

to like I don't know like basketball

players you know what I mean like these

are Big shifts like just experiment

around with who you actually are trying

to get it to I think that's okay um but

if you have questions there and you're

not sure you can always ask us um I

think Bonnie yours is really interesting

where like Bonnie could really

complicate this actually right um in the

sense of like I don't know let's who's

your customer today like as of today U

for this thing um well my plan was to to

go to gift shops this weekend and ask

them if I could um maybe just like be

there for the weekend and wrap people's

gifts at Cost great cool no yeah makes

sense I think on that even just hearing

that um always kind of stay flexible

right because for all you know no gift

shop replies to you and that's okay

right but then it's like okay who's

someone else that's maybe like less push

is required for me to get through the

door um um so even for you there's so

many places for for like this to like be

sold and like become a thing um just no

need to get married to a specific like

segment you know or a specific type of

like strategy again I've done it so many

times so yeah if that happens to me it

can definitely happen to you um yeah AEL

you know selling to where's a boy here

somewhere oh yes uh you're selling to uh

medical students um sounds hard you know

doesn't sound impossible but sounds hard

right is it hard H yeah

it's yeah

yeah yeah it's it's hard so I think even

when I see something like this my kind

of thing is like hey like don't kind of

like get caught up in the Rut of selling

to medical students like who's somebody

else that's maybe slightly adjacent that

we can try out this week you know um you

can argue that this is like losing focus

but honestly I don't know it sounds like

you spent a lot of weeks on medical

students like maybe let's try something

else you know maybe let's adjust a

little bit um we could maybe you can

change who you sell to um and maybe

it'll be uh you have to like do you have

to force your way into the door a little

bit less

right cool so those are my kind of three

my three this my three I guess tips or

my three learnings from what I've what

I've kind of like uh just things that

work for me basically at the end of the

day I I don't like to call this advice

um this is just what works for me and I

think you guys can take away from this

uh what you please um but my main thing

is don't be this guy you know I know you

don't think you're being this guy but

when I see some of you making reals and

at the end you're like go to my link I'm

like ah you just look like this guy you

know like and nobody wants to interact

with this guy um or I see your TW tweet

it's like a beautiful tweet and at the

end you're like check out my thing and

I'm like well again I don't think that's

G to happen um you can try uh all day

keep trying of course you know um uh my

my biggest thing I want you to take away

from this is to not stop all those

Shenanigans like that's like playing the

lottery should play the lottery like

every day that sounds dope um especially

because it's a free Lottery that's even

more dope uh but that's what socials are

that's what posting on these large

platforms are but don't don't let that

be your strategy you know like that's

not a strategy that's that's not a

strategy to sell strategies to sell at

this stage should be more like one one

they should be a lot more kind of like

direct right and yeah just just be a

little more like this guy you know look

at him um and yeah I think if that

happens I think you know like the group

will end up looking a little bit less

like this and maybe a little bit more

like this actually um you'll still have

people in all sorts of stages right but

I don't think it's that crazy for you

all to have like a big Push by the end

of this week like every single one of

you and I know I have a very good idea

of the states of every single one of

your projects um I see what you're doing

I watch your exam days I see your

updates in the chats I have a pretty

solid sense of where most of you are at

well 95% of you um and yeah I feel like

you got something you just got to like

really start selling it um and I think

that's that's that's all that's what's

going to take at the the end of the day

remember I can sit here all day and say

these things to you and I think for some

of you it'll hit for some of you it

won't uh but we're here for you uh email

me if you need me I think a lot of

people are kind of don't know how to get

in touch with me yeah just email me I

don't check my phone much um but email

me I'm always around far as I bill space

uh and I actually look at that often uh

one1 amth please continue uh bugging

Amoth for 101s please continue barging

into our office who's barging into our

office I'm curious damn a lot of you

continue barging into our office it's

totally okay if we don't want you there

we will literally say no and I've done

that many times um I think it's okay uh

get s's music to Hype you up you know do

do whatever you got to do uh by Friday

right um and again remember inputs over

outputs at the end of the day like I

don't want you all to be like mentally

down if your graph doesn't go up because

it's one signal you know as long as

you're happy every week with your inputs

and what you're actually putting into

the into the game cuz that's the only

thing you control I can't like stress

that enough it's very easy to get caught

up in the idea that uh you're Flatline

or you're going down or you're flopping

I don't know I don't it's just it's just

one graph um there's many graphs that we

could look at um and that's it yeah any

questions any

questions damn nice yes