How To NOT Get Screwed As A Software Engineer

Summary

The video offers advice to technical people like engineers who may feel exploited at work, where business people get the credit and rewards. It advises evaluating your equity split, decision-making influence, work-life balance compared to counterparts, company trajectory, and opportunity cost. If dissatisfied, consider asking for more ownership, exploring other jobs that value you, or taking a temporary step back to advance your career. It reminds technical staff to know their worth while encouraging business leaders to appreciate and not exploit their teams.

Takeaways

• 😀 The video aims to help technical people avoid getting exploited in startups
• 😟 Non-technical founders often take much more equity than technical co-founders
• 😟 Technical people are often overworked compared to non-technical counterparts
• 🤔 Having a seat at the table in decision-making suggests you're valued
• 😃 Equal equity splits suggest you're a true partner, not just an employee
• 😟 Signs of a bad situation: no equity, decisions made without you, company not working
• 😃 Good signs: learning fast, valued by team, transparent expectations
• 👍 Ask directly for what you think you deserve - equity, decision rights, etc.
• 🚀 Leaving for a 'worse' job can set you up better long term
• 💡 Know your worth - technical skills are rare and valuable

Q & A

What are some common roles or situations where technical people can get exploited?

Some common roles and situations include: technical co-founders at startups, lead engineers at scaling companies, early engineers at early-stage startups, college student interns, and engineers at big tech companies who do a lot of the work that others get credit and promotions for.

What is an example of an unfair equity split between technical and non-technical founders?

An unfair split would be if there are 2 founders, and the non-technical business founder has 90% equity while the technical founder has 10% or less. Often there is no good justification for this beyond the business founder being a tougher negotiator.

What should an early employee look for in terms of equity compensation?

An early employee taking on the role of a technical co-founder should look to get an equity share that is life-changing if the company succeeds - not just a pat on the back and a small bonus. Even if less than the founders, it should be meaningful.

How can you tell if a googler is getting a fair deal or not?

Consider work-life balance and overall compensation compared to the intense effort put in. If working long hours to produce work that benefits management's career growth more than your own, with little work-life balance, it may be unfair.

What are signs you may lack influence or a seat at the table?

Signs include not being invited to key meetings where decisions happen and having your work dictated by non-technical management without input into priorities or process.

How can you self-diagnose if the business is working or not?

Look at the hard data - are you growing users, revenue, engagement as expected? Does the evidence match what leadership says about how things are going? Trust the data.

What are signs you may be in a good, fair situation?

Signs include: feeling you have the best risk-reward deal available, having responsibility and learning opportunities, and working just as hard as co-founders and peers (everyone feels invested).

If expectations were set clearly upfront, does that mean you cannot be exploited?

No. However, if expectations are set accurately about workload and opportunity ahead of time, it provides more context about what you signed up for - you may be working hard but cannot claim you were misled.

What can you do if you think you are being exploited?

Options: Ask for more equity or responsibility, explore other jobs where your skills may be better valued, take a step back to switch companies/roles to advance long-term prospects.

What advice does Michael give business partners about treating technical talent fairly?

Be honest and upfront about expectations. Make decisions that get your team excited and feel invested for the long term. Don't just exploit valuable skills for near term gain.

Outlines

00:00

😊 Who the video is for and why we feel bad for technical people

This paragraph introduces who the video is aimed at - technical co-founders, engineers at scaling companies, early employees, college students, and googlers who do most of the work. It explains that often these technical people get exploited or ripped off, which the hosts see in applications to YC, and they want to help avoid that by providing questions to determine if they're being treated well.

05:03

😕 Questions to determine if you have enough equity

This paragraph advises technical people to examine their equity stake and ask if it makes sense based on their contributions and responsibilities. Often technical co-founders get much less equity than business founders with no good justification. Early employees also routinely get little equity despite providing immense value.

10:04

😃 Signs of a good situation for technical people

This paragraph discusses indications that a technical person is in a good situation - they feel they're getting the best risk/reward deal possible, they have a lot of responsibility and opportunity to learn quickly, and they set their expectations accurately by being very transparent upfront about the challenges.

15:06

😯 What to do if you suspect you're being exploited

This paragraph advises technical people who think they may be getting exploited to examine their other opportunities and consider changing jobs or starting their own company to have more decision-making power. Before that, ask for more responsibility in your current role.

Keywords

💡Equity

Equity refers to ownership stake in a company, often granted to founders and early employees through stock options or shares. The video advises technical contributors like engineers to ensure they get adequate equity that reflects the value they provide and risk they take, rather than accepting tiny equity slices like 1%.

💡Co-founder

A co-founder is one of the original founding members who establishes and owns a portion of a startup company. The video cautions technical co-founders to avoid being exploited by non-technical business co-founders who take large equity shares without justification.

💡Engineer

Engineers are the technical talent that build technology products for startups and companies. The video warns engineers they risk being underappreciated and having their work claimed by others for promotions and bonuses.

💡Effort level

Effort level refers to the amount of time and dedication put into working at a startup. The video says to watch whether your effort level matches that of counterparts like business operators, who gain more rewards with less proportional effort.

💡Work-life balance

Work-life balance means maintaining a healthy equilibrium between job responsibilities and personal life. For some Googler engineers, reasonable work-life balance compensates for not gaining huge financial rewards relative to business executives who promote based on the engineers' work.

💡Opportunity cost

Opportunity cost means the potential rewards you miss out on by choosing one option over alternatives. Putting extreme efforts into an unsuccessful startup incurs opportunity costs because you're not spending that time exploring better options.

💡Expectation setting

Expectation setting means clearly establishing upfront what responsibilities, workloads and outcomes to anticipate in a job to avoid future disappointment. Honest expectation-setting prevents feeling exploited even when the work proves intensely demanding.

💡Network

Your professional network is the ecosystem of industry connections that help advance your career through new leads and opportunities. Sometimes it's worth taking a step back at a less ideal job if it expands your networks to unlock better long-term prospects.

💡Agency

Agency refers to one's capacity and authority to make active choices empowering their situation rather than playing passive victim. Technologists can gain agency on leadership decisions by proactively engaging rather than staying silent waiting for a seat at the table.

💡Value

In business, value refers to the worth associated with products and professional skills. Software engineers shouldn't underprice themselves but rather find appreciative employers that properly value their technical contributions.

Highlights

Technical people are often exploited and ripped off by business people

Non-technical founders often take way more equity than technical co-founders

Early employees often get very little equity despite critical contributions

Technical co-founders should have close to equal equity as non-technical founders

Essential engineers should get enough equity to make life-changing money if successful

College interns often get no equity despite doing lots of the work

Decisions shouldn't be made without input from technical team members

Counterparts should put in similar effort levels

Trust your judgement if the evidence shows things aren't working

Don't let others convince you bad situations are actually good

Great teams have honest expectation setting

Take responsibility to earn a seat at the table

Consider other jobs and locations that value you more

Ask directly for more equitable treatment

Sometimes take a step back to take two steps forward

Transcripts

funniest thing is this one of the

technical person who does all the work

is the one actually reading the

analytics and like hey like this our

launch bombed what's the plan in the

don't worry about it this is like you

need to be quiet this is my department

you know stop asking

[Music]

questions all right this is Dalton plus

Michael and today we're going to talk

about how to not get screwed as a

software

engineer interesting yeah tips you know

we've we've noticed that a lot of the of

technical folks sometimes get exploited

they kind of get ripped off by other

folks evil business people yeah it's

kind of a bad pattern and so we're gonna

we're going to talk about it so who is

this aimed at Michael who is this video

for the the folks we're talking to so

we're talking to maybe you're a

technical co-founder at a startup right

now um maybe you are a great engineer at

a scaling up

company the guy that everyone comes to

the person who y always gets fixed the

woman who's always up late getting those

text messages and having to yeah or or

you're at a really early stage startup

yes but you're not a Founder a

co-founder you're like a lead engineer

or head of engineering or there's some

title yes and the whole company is like

three people yeah but you're not a

Founder you're not a Founder okay there

is the college student who all the mbas

go to to build their prototype yep um um

and then there's the googler right how

did you describe it it's the person that

does the work that other people take

credit for yes to get promoted promoted

in bonuses yes it's the person that does

the you know actually producing the

products that a lot of people stick

their career on yes yes yes yes so

that's who we're talking

yeah so I think the thing that we're

trying

to really help you with is yeah we feel

bad for you so so this this comes up a

lot um for us at YC where we read a lot

of applications and we interview a lot

of companies and we see folks where it's

pretty clear what's going on we can see

it a mile away in the application that

someone is getting exploited or ripped

off and it's usually the technical

person yes right and it feels bad to see

just all of these applications come in

yes and it's Crystal Clear what's going

on yes and so this is for you yes we

would like to give you some questions to

ask yourself to figure out whether

you're being treated well or not and I

think that to be clear we don't want to

presuppose right there are a lot of

people who are in great

situations um we just want to give you

some tools so let's talk about Equity um

what are the questions people should ask

themselves about whether they have

enough equity Equity at all this comes

up a lot I know you a big proponent of

this Michael but in general something

like equal Equity is pretty common um

for startups that apply to to YC and is

something we recommend and sort of the

anti- pattern we might see is say

there's two Founders and the

non-technical business founder has 90%

And the technical person has 10% or less

and the explanation is basically just

that the business founder had sharper

elbow negotiate it was a better nego

like there's actually no justification

for this it was my idea yeah okay right

and so there's really no good reason

it's just that the business guy gets

more for whatever case yes and usually

in those situations you endend up with

something much closer to even again you

give this advice how how do you explain

this when this happens I I always just

think that like the vast majority of the

journey is ahead of you not behind you

and you want your co-founders to feel

like owners and partners Y and I always

think about you know in the early days

of our

company on Sunday night when the website

went down I couldn't fix it and so we're

going to live in one of two worlds the

world where I get text and I have to

like cajo people to fix it or the world

where everyone feels like an owner and

they get text and they wake up and they

fix it right and I think a lot of people

just don't understand that if you can

make people inherently motivated they'll

do far better work than if you

yell at them so that's the that's the

that's the the founder you know do you

have close to equal Equity yeah what

does your Equity look like and does it

make sense like is the justification for

whatever your Equity is does it make

sense to you based on what you bring to

the T and based on your actual

responsibilities now what about the

early

employee well the early employee

notoriously kind of gets hosed on this

stuff especially if they're providing

the work of an equal technical

co-founder yet they get 1% or less of

the company again this is very common

where you'll have two business Founders

three business Founders you know yes and

then they'll have someone that's you

know lead engineer that is effectively

technical co-founder technical

co-founder and they get like

1% not great yes not great that's not a

good pattern um I would say if you're in

the scaleup and you are the essential

engineer the test I would kind of ask

myself is is if this thing works are you

going to make a life-changing amount of

money and you know I would argue that

like you know that doesn't mean you

necessarily should have as much Equity

as the founders or you're going to have

as much Equity as someone who came in

early but it does mean that like if this

thing actually IPOs or gets bought and

you get like p on the back and like you

know a nice Christmas

bonus probably you're not in the right

situation yeah all right that next group

um the googler I think this one's

actually much more interesting because I

would argue that if you're the

googler you're getting a bad deal if

you're doing like a 100h hour weeks and

grinding yep and like your boss or your

boss's boss is getting like Mega

vacation and $10 million a year packages

and like promotions and da D I would say

on the flip side though like if you got

good work life balance and yeah I think

it's risk award this is a subtle point

that Michael's making I think it's for

the opportunity cost that you're taking

to not do something else yes are you

getting a square deal versus if again if

you're working really really really hard

perhaps another thing would be better

yes but if you're if you're very happy

with the trade you're making on work

life balance compensation hey man maybe

good yeah it could be great for you yeah

you know and then I guess you know last

but not least is the college student who

like in most cases even isn't even

offered Equity like that's like you know

they're just they're just the typer

you're the intern yeah you're our

technical intern just do all of the work

do the thing we're just the idea guys

yes yes so Equity is one set of topics

you can ask yourself in these roles

another one and one that you brought up

was kind of decision-making pro pro

process like okay we've established that

you are doing a lot of the work yeah

it's basically do you have a seat at the

table and so again if you're trying to

self- diagnose am I being exploited um

as an engineer as a technical person is

the whole point that the business people

have a lot of meetings that you're not

invited to and all decisions about

everything are made by the business

people and you are basically used as a

robot to write code yes probably not a

great sign probably a sign that you are

you might be being exploited right

you're being used as um yes like a

machine to write code and not a person

with a brain I think the the next thing

you should be thinking about is kind of

effort level you know are you working

these crazy hours but everyone's on

vacation in Aruba half the time right

are your counterparts who are doing

fundraising and sales and HR and all the

other tasks within the company are they

grinding or are they not yep like this

is a self- diagnosis thing but but it's

really sad when you see someone in the

world of technical co-founder and they

really have to work their butt off and

they're really showing up every day yes

and the idea guy or the salesperson or

the business Expert the fundraising

expert yeah actually isn't doing much

sometimes they're part-time sometimes

they're part you and man that is such a

vector for being exploited and so you

should really feel from a self-

diagnosis perspective that yeah

counterparts are just as into it and

there's just as much heart that they're

bringing to the table as you are and if

so again maybe you're maybe it's a great

deal for you yeah um I think that the

the last two are kind of connected this

kind of like is it working SL

opportunity cost right like one would

argue that like um you because you're

doing all this work have an amazing

ability to judge whether the company's

working yep and um you should maybe

trust your instincts there Y and you

know is it working right like you might

be exploited if you're being asked to do

all this stuff and like the evidence is

painfully obvious it's not working well

and you're the technical person so you

notice the first the funniest thing is

this one of the technical person who

does all the work is the one actually

reading the analytics like hey like this

our launch bombed what's the plan and

The Bu don't worry about it this is like

you need to be quiet this is my

department you know stop asking

questions and so so if it just seems

like you're bringing your aame effort

and doing all of the work yes and it's

definitely not working yes probably

might be a sign you're being exploited

well and this is even more of the case

that the opportunity cost might not be

worth it yep or you might be not leaving

because you're afraid but you know

intellectually this thing isn't working

yep all right so and like don't let them

finesse you again this is the the the

same person that convinced you that you

getting you know one tenth of their

Equity is a great deal for you is the

ones like hey I know it looks like we're

not growing and we have no revenue and

we're about to run out of money but I

got this fine like don't let that same

swaave

person keep doing the same move on you

over and over again yeah it's it's weird

because I never Ed the term gaslighting

but it is G it's actually gaslighting

it's actually that okay so I don't want

to paint too bad of a picture because on

the flip side we see situations that are

great yeah more often than not you know

the folks we F yeah the folks we fund

it's mostly like a really awesome trade

so let's talk about situations where

like things are going well right like

you signs that this is great I think one

sign is from an opportunity cost

perspective you realize that you're at

the best possible place in the world for

the risk reward ratio yes and whether

however you're being comped yes you're

like wow I'm getting a smoking deal and

I know there's no better deal I can be

doing doing and I proud I feel

privileged to be working on this team I

am because they care just as much like

if everyone feels like they're getting a

great deal that's a sign of a good

culture yeah I also think if you feel

like you're being given a lot of

responsibility you have a lot of

opportunity to learn yep I think most

people don't realize that

like you can learn at a startup Pace or

you can learn at a Google pace and like

I startup is an amazing opportunity to

learn so if you're getting better faster

than your peers who are in big Tech

you might be getting a really good deal

um especially we see this a lot with

people who learn a ton and then they go

start their own company yep and it's

like well that startup was incredible

for you even if it didn't work get rich

from it that was like the best education

you could have ever gotten and we see

this also with immigration like

sometimes that startup or that company

is getting you to the country you want

to be in or getting you the Visa like

it's great deal that might be getting

you a great deal so that's like a really

really big thing um I also think there's

this element of like you're not

exploited if you're part of the problem

yes again this is a subtle Point let's

see if we can explain it it's

basically if it's not working and you

have a seat at the table it's on you man

yes yes like you can't just blame hey

business guy you're not pulling your

weight because no one wants our thing

but if you have a seene at the table

you're if you have equal Equity with

someone and you have a seat at the table

in decision making just because it's not

working doesn't mean you get the right

to blame other people no that's not cool

you know and I think the last one that I

will say is like um and this is a

slightly dangerous one but like when

people are honest with you and it turns

out to be that way when people are like

this is going to be the hardest job

you've ever done and then it turns out

that you're working like crazy like when

the team you're coming into is extremely

upfront with you about how it's going to

be and it turns out that way and it's

not good it's not necessarily you're

being exploited like you made that

choice yeah you chose that that's a

really great Point man

like think about um expectation setting

when you take any job yes or when you go

to school yes the people the the great

professors or teachers or bosses it's

not that they tell you it's going to be

easy it's that they tell you what's

going to happen yes and they're right

they're honest and and you're like wow I

really respect that you set my

expectations well and I knew what I was

walking into and so again you're if

someone did an A+ job of expectation

setting you can't really hold you can't

argue that they're exploiting you or

that this is like not what you signed up

for no right no all right so I suspect

I'm in a bad situation what do I do to

fix it if you think you might be in a

bad situation I would look at what are

the other opport opportunities that

you're taking an opportunity cost from

doing so for instance if you're at the

big tech company and other people are

getting tons of promotions because if

you're at work you probably are pretty

well undervalued and you could be

learning more and so I would explore

starting your own company or going to

working somewhere else y if you really

want that seat at the table my guess is

you could find a job where you have way

more a seat at the table when you're

doing decision- making well I I'll say a

step you could do even before that you

can ask for a seat at the table that's

true I remember there was this great

employee at at uh Justin TV this guy

named Tim and he was

disgruntled because the company wasn't

doing

well and

as disgruntled as he was he actually

would do the work to come up with ideas

and to point out things that were wrong

and to create fixes and like he took

ownership and what was interesting is

that as he took ownership he was given

ownership so it wasn't this weird it

wasn't like oh like you're not at the

table it's like come up with the smart

ideas maybe maybe you do have a maybe

you are at the table and you're just not

participating y or taking

responsibility that's a great point and

we see this with Equity splits because

often sometimes it'll just be hey have

you all thought about maybe like or how

did you come up with the equity split

like well it's you know 9010 well why

well it's my idea well you know most of

the work is ahead of you not behind you

what if you went like equal people are

like okay yeah fine it's actually not

that hard to fix the stuff sometimes

shockingly it's just they've never had

the conversation exactly they almost

expected the business person to do right

by them or like gave up their like

agency all and it's like no you have

agency like and then I'll say you know

another thing is location like sometimes

you're in a place where your work is

invalu yep and there are other places

where your work could be valued more

whether that's geographic location

company that's a great Point um and I

think the last one that I observe a lot

is that sometimes you have to take a

step backwards to take two steps forward

so like maybe you're stuck in a bad job

and like you have a lot of

responsibility but you're not being

given good compensation ation you might

have to go switch jobs into a place

where you have less opportunity less

less responsibility but better

compensation you can develop a better

Network um maybe you have to move maybe

you have to take risks yeah like like

maybe you have to do something that

doesn't feel like you have the perfect

next thing on your resume because it

sets you up two day two moves down the

line right I think sometimes people are

like look at their careers very linearly

instead of saying like it's the end that

matter right it's like can I retire

raise my kids D and like maybe the path

to get there isn't just this linear step

by step so anyways what would be your

last parting piece of advice for someone

Su spe in this world look technical

people know your

worth and if you're a really nice person

those are the people that tend to get

ripped off the most follow our handy

checklist and find a place where you're

appreciated and valued the way you

should be because because you have this

amazing rare skill and for those

business people listening to

this don't exploit folks be honest be

upfront right like make decisions that

they're going to that your people you

work with are going to be excited about

today but also tomorrow cuz like if that

amazing Tech person leaves your company

you're

all right d great jat

thanks

[Music]

[Music]