Why Rich People Should Live in Cheap Countries

Summary

The video discusses why financially successful people and investors should consider getting a foothold in emerging markets that offer growth potential. It argues emerging markets can provide diversification, hedge against instability in developed countries, and take advantage of changing momentum. Examples given include Mexico, parts of Latin America, and Eastern European countries. The strategy is not necessarily to live full-time in these places but to have backup citizenship options in faster growing and more affordable markets should economic or political situations shift.

Takeaways

• 😀 Successful people want access to emerging markets before prices rise
• 😯 Mexico could overtake the US economically in the long run
• 💰 Latin America offers cheap, productive farmland for wealthy investors
• 😎 Having options in politically neutral countries provides safety
• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 Gaining second citizenships opens opportunities for your children
• 🌎 Wealthy people want residences and citizenships across the globe
• 📈 Emerging market returns and investments can greatly outpace developed countries
• ⚖️ Developed countries are moving in the wrong direction politically
• ✈️ Having multi-country access provides protection in case of unrest
• 🏡 Residences abroad can lead to future citizenship if desired

Q & A

Why would a wealthy investor or entrepreneur want to consider emerging markets for investment or residence?

Wealthy investors and entrepreneurs may want to invest in or establish residence in emerging markets to get in early before prices and barriers to entry rise, as well as to diversify their assets and have options in more locations around the world in case issues arise in their home countries.

What does the 'global citizen sandwich' refer to in the context of the nomad capitalist lifestyle?

The 'global citizen sandwich' refers to having banking set up in established hubs like Singapore or Switzerland, obtaining EU citizenship through ancestry or investment if possible, and also obtaining residence or citizenship options in emerging markets for asset diversification and future opportunity.

Why does the speaker recommend considering Mexico for residence or having a child there versus the United States?

The speaker believes Mexico's economy and passport strength will improve in the long term compared to the United States. He thinks it presents better opportunity 18 years from now for someone starting out in life compared to the issues he sees unfolding in the US.

What are some examples of niche opportunities the speaker sees individual countries competing on?

The speaker cites niche opportunities like being the most crypto, Bitcoin or blockchain friendly country as areas where individual countries are trying to establish themselves as leaders to attract investment and talent.

What does the speaker see as the potential opportunity in agricultural land investment in Latin America?

He believes Latin America presents some of the cheapest agricultural land in the world accessible to foreign buyers. This could be worthwhile for asset diversification and establishing a productive safe haven for someone with even $50 million in net worth.

Why does the speaker keep comparing emerging markets to Singapore and its development?

Singapore represents an example of a country that grew quickly in economic importance and livability, but became very expensive with high barriers to entry. The speaker believes identifying and investing in the next Singapore while still early presents huge upside.

How can passports like Georgia be valuable to a global citizen portfolio?

The speaker sees neutral and geopolitically diversified passports like Georgia as providing options without as many barriers compared to Western countries, which could prove valuable if circumstances change.

Why host an event showcasing the nomad capitalist lifestyle in Kuala Lumpur?

Kuala Lumpur offers a high quality of living for a very reasonable cost. Hosting their event there allows attendees to experience an appealing emerging market opportunity firsthand.

How can having residences and passports in emerging markets benefit wealthy people?

It allows them to diversify their assets globally, take advantage of growth opportunities, and have additional options if issues arise down the road - all without necessarily changing their day to day lifestyle if not desired.

What role does momentum play in the speaker's perspective?

Places with upward momentum offer the most wealth creation potential in the speaker's view. He sees many emerging markets on an upward swing, compared to declining momentum in many Western nations.

Outlines

00:00

😕 Misunderstandings about Nomad Capitalist's advice

Andrew explains that many successful investors or entrepreneurs wrongly think Nomad Capitalist advises going to emerging markets only for lower income people. He explains how the wealthy also benefit from getting access to upcoming places before they become expensive and inaccessible.

05:01

🤑 Why the wealthy diversify globally

Wealthy people want banking in places like Singapore and citizenship in European countries, but also want options in up and coming places like Mexico, Argentina, and South America before they become expensive. This geographic diversification protects their assets and provides opportunities.

10:02

😎 Lifestyle benefits of global diversification

Spending time in affordable places like Uruguay, Colombia, and Georgia allows wealthy people to learn about emerging trends and opportunities while enjoying a good lifestyle. Andrew highlights how the quality of life delta between developed and developing countries has shrunk.

15:04

🌎 Having options everywhere as insurance

Wealthy people get residence permits and citizenships around the world not necessarily to live there full time, but as "call options" in case problems arise back home. This geographic diversification provides option value the way Peter Thiel has an option to go to New Zealand if needed.

Keywords

💡Diversification

Diversification refers to spreading out investments, assets, residences, and citizenships across different countries and regions to mitigate risks and maximize opportunities. The video emphasizes how wealthy individuals and families aim to diversify globally for greater stability and access. For example, the narrator states that even those with $50 million seek diversified portfolios of residences and citizenships across continents as a form of protection and optionality.

💡Emerging markets

Emerging markets refer to developing countries and their economies that are progressing toward becoming advanced, stable economies. The video focuses on how wealthy investors and entrepreneurs are interested in emerging markets like those in Latin America and Eastern Europe to get in early before asset prices and visa requirements rise. The narrator gives examples of Mexico, Colombia, and Serbia as places expected to grow in importance.

💡Citizenship by investment

Citizenship by investment refers to programs run by countries that offer citizenship or permanent residency to foreigners in exchange for substantial investment, donation, or purchase of property. As discussed in the video, even those with millions seek secondary citizenships in countries with such programs as a form of diversification and expanded access.

💡Optionality

Optionality refers to having various options and alternative courses of action readily available. The video emphasizes how global diversification provides optionality - wealthy individuals can choose to live, work, invest, or hideout in different countries based on changing personal, financial, or geopolitical circumstances.

💡Black swan events

Black swan events refer to extremely rare, unexpected occurrences that have severe consequences. The video mentions how diversification across emerging and developed countries provides wealthy people better preparation for and insulation from potential black swan events.

💡Lifestyle design

Lifestyle design refers to proactively structuring one's location, assets, and activities to maximize fulfillment and happiness. As per the narrator, global diversification enables greater lifestyle design freedom to live, work, and invest according to changing priorities.

💡Flag theory

Flag theory is the concept put forth by the Nomad Capitalist philosophy that entrepreneurs and investors should live, do business, bank, and invest across different countries for greater freedom and opportunity. The video touches on using flag theory to have bases across both advanced as well as emerging economies.

💡Citizenship planning

Citizenship planning refers to strategically obtaining and passing down citizenship across generations to maximize future opportunity. As mentioned in the video, the narrator recommends Mexican over American citizenship for a child born today based on long-term projections.

💡Neutral countries

Neutral countries like Georgia and Turkey are positioned not to take sides in global conflicts. The video suggests having citizenships from neutral countries can provide wealthy individuals political diversification.

💡Momentum investing

Momentum investing means seeking out markets and countries exhibiting positive trajectories to benefit from accelerating growth. According to the video, identifying and investing early in places with upward momentum is key for the wealthy looking to maximize returns.

Highlights

Nomad Capitalist advises wealthy people on getting citizenship or residency in emerging markets before they become too expensive

Wealthy people want to diversify their assets and have options in different countries in case there are problems where they currently live

Mexico has potential to be a strong passport and economy in the future compared to the U.S.

Colombia and other Latin American countries offer affordable options for residency that could lead to citizenship

South America is a good location to escape to if there are problems in the northern hemisphere

Wealthy people are looking for the next emerging market that will grow rapidly like Singapore did

Having assets and citizenship diversified globally helps prepare for unexpected events

Nomad Capitalist Live event is in Penang, Malaysia which offers a great lifestyle for the cost

Wealthy people want citizenship or residency in every continent to have maximum options

Investing early in emerging markets can produce great returns compared to waiting until they are established

Western countries are moving in the wrong direction politically, while emerging markets are becoming more free

Wealth is created through momentum - being early to opportunities in growing emerging markets

Having citizenship or residency in Latin America provides access to investment opportunities not available to outsiders

Prices for citizenship by investment rise as countries like Singapore become popular - important to get in early

Average person has better chance getting citizenship in Colombia than what Peter Thiel got in New Zealand

Transcripts

for some people there's a

misunderstanding of what we talk about

here at Nomad capitalist and a lot of

people are confused about why anyone

who's financially successful as an

investor or entrepreneur would want to

listen to my advice about going to some

of the emerging markets that we talk

[Music]

about so we're going to talk off the

cuff uh it's in a sense Nomad capist

I've got a uh slightly cracked mug uh

with twg Earl Gray Fortune T we haven't

done this in a while it's just you and

me talking about uh the reality of The

Nomad capitalist

lifestyle and I have worked with a

number of very successful people their

companies went public they've made a lot

of money and one thing I've heard a

couple different times is yeah you know

we went to some big four company and

once or twice I heard yeah they gave us

some kind of report that was kind of

like hard to read and like you know they

really try those companies not to give

you very much

information um but you know we think

that noad ACC has their finger on the

pulse of what's upcoming and if you're a

very successful person you realize that

what the next place to come whether you

want to invest there whether you want to

get residents or citizenship to get your

tow hold there so that whatever happens

you can always be there the price won't

go up on you you'll always have access

for whatever reason you want access to a

certain country you want to get in

before everybody knows about it because

once a country is Singapore I mean

Singapore has a program now you need

nine figures to invest in Singapore now

there's cheaper programs you can start a

business there's other options but at

the top level Singapore has a nine

figure investment program if you want to

move there and you want to jump to

permanent residence and even then almost

nobody now who has permanent residence

is getting citizenship and I know people

who were naturalized Singaporean

citizens it wasn't that long ago you

could do that but in the last 10 years

or so it's very much difficult now

imagine you wanted to go to Singapore

back in the 1980s it would have been a

lot easier even up until until the early

2010s it really wasn't that difficult to

get into Singapore and again it's still

possible but even some of the wealthiest

people that we work with they'll Bank in

Singapore but when they look at oh I

have to spend half the year there there

are more requirements it is a bigger

Financial commitment you know it's just

it's not worth it anymore with my

lifestyle so Singapore even if you can

afford the nine figure price tag when we

present that to those people they're

like just there's too many things

involved because Singapore can demand

that to get in so what we talk about is

looking for the next Singapore and I

think that the next Singapore is going

to be a number of different places

because you have so many different

countries competing that you're going to

have a number of different Niche uh

players that are each going to try and

and be successful in something one thing

you've seen is you've seen a handful of

countries throw their hat in the ring of

we want to be the most friendly place

for blockchain or for crypto or for

Bitcoin and uh you know if you focus on

a couple of those Niche things as a

country you can be successful uh and

you'll be known perhaps as the sing

Singapore of this or the Singapore of

that and so I think that the strategy uh

for a lot of our very successful clients

you know we take people who have a

million dollars in liquid assets or who

have half a million dollars a year at

income but we go all the way up to

people who have hundreds of millions of

of dollars what they're looking to apply

is what I call the global citizen

sandwich they'll Bank in Singapore we

had a guy uh he cashed out he got about

$500 million and he started to call the

bank in Singapore and they're like you

you know let's talk let's think about it

and I think we were able to to plug him

in some of our connections and it ended

up working relatively well for him but

even at that level of wealth the banks

sometimes can be cautious but a very

wealthy person might want a bank in

Singapore might want a bank in

Switzerland or lonstein or Luxembourg or

maybe andur uh maybe the UK for some

people they like that um there's some

good Banks there but they are looking

for a diversified portfolio of

residences and citizenships what I have

said is if I were going to have uh with

my wife a child today I would choose

giving birth in Mexico over giving birth

in the United States neither of us are

Americans or Mexicans both countries

allow your any child born on their soil

to get their passport and so if I'm

looking forward 18 years from now I have

some resources I wouldn't give a lot of

my money to my child but I would make

sure they're not going to starve I'd

make sure they you know they were safe

they had a safe place to live uh and so

all those things be considered I I think

having a Mexican passport would be much

stronger and that's why we've advised a

lot of people to get Mexican residents

and it's a call option on potentially

being a citizen in the future that's

something that a lot of people we work

with choose to add onto their plans

Argentina in a different way is now one

that some people are interested and so

what I'm telling clients is if you get a

couple of these more affordable

residence permits that's a interesting

call option on potentially having

citizenships that could be uh highly

viable in the future I think Mexico

being one of the most interesting ones

now it's you know a bigger trading

partner with the US um taking business

away from China if I'm looking 18 years

into the future and I was on CBS News

talking about the rise of the PES

against the dollar I think Mexico has a

bright future I'm not saying that the

average Mexican will be wealthier than

the average American although I think

that the Delta will shrink but I'm

saying if you already have economic

stability I think being Mexican both

from the terms of geopolitically and

traveling and doing business and

regulations whether in your country when

go overseas Mexico will be the superior

place to be the citizen now my child

would have multiple citizenships but if

I can only choose one out of those two

CU again I'm not Mexican and I'm not

American my wife's not um I would choose

Mexico looking forward 18 years and so

we all like to say oh you know I wish I

would have discovered something 18 years

ago but it's really hard to make the

decision now because it's not popular I

was saying when Trump was running when

people were threatening to leave to

Canada and of course they never do uh

when it threaten move to Mexico it's

better and it's the future Canada is not

I said that in 2016 turns out I was

right and now you see a lot of people

moving to Mexico during the pandemic you

see Canada Canadians who really wanted

to go to Canada during the pandemic and

many of them had

problems and so I think what you want

and you don't have to have hundreds of

millions of dollars to do this I mean

you can we take client with as little as

a million dollars in liquid assets um

you might not have as many options to

that level but if if you're a wealthy

person I might offer you to say okay

let's check your family treat do you

have any citizenship you can claim

particularly if it's in a European

country there's also Latin American

countries we've helped with but let's

say particularly European countries

because that's kind of the top grade Tia

passport as we call it any pretty much

any European Union country that's one

part of the strategy so if you're an

American we've helped people you know

get citizenship by descent we've helped

people get multi citizenship by making a

donation close to a million dollars uh

We've helped people move to European

countries or we've had clients who

already lived in European countries and

they were

naturalizing um whether it's you know

Ireland or the UK where you already

speak English or maybe you move

somewhere else and learn it or maybe you

get a golden visa and work towards it in

a country like Portugal which is a

little bit back on track now that's the

first part of the strategy but I just as

I have multiple residences and passports

around the world in emerging countries

number one you never know where you're

going to have to go if you're safe now

if you're Peter teal or a couple of

other billionaires the Google guys maybe

you can going to New Zealand I just

personally don't want to spend any time

in New Zealand doesn't mean you

shouldn't want to it's not a place that

I want to spend my time I'd rather spend

a couple weeks a year in Colombia

learning about how Latin America is

emerging and seeing those opportunities

and you know talking to people there um

I'd rather make that a place that I can

go and you know I don't know if Colombia

is the best place in South America but

South America for me outside of New

Zealand is one of the best places in the

world to be if the fur starts flying in

the northern hem Hemisphere and so

having access to Southern American

countries South American countries is a

good thing and you know what you can get

some very nice homes I bought the

minimum home that you need to buy to get

Colombian permanent residents back when

that program existed but you know I

could have bought a one I was looking at

a property the other day for about

$900,000 beautiful property in a very

safe neighborhood but by batah standards

uh if you wanted to spend more money you

could certainly spend close to a million

dollars and buy an amazing property and

live there uh I'm not in Colombia that

long I'm not in Colombia long enough to

pay taxes so having a home is

diversification it's an asset in another

country it gets me immigration status

and you know if you are substantially

wealthier you could buy a a bigger

apartment but for me I'd rather do that

from a lifestyle

basis and than go to New Zealand not

saying Peter Teal's wrong but I think

that um the average Among Us have a

better chance of getting Colombian

citizenship than what Peter teal got

which was getting New Zealand

citizenship uh we know people who've

been given very high level citizenships

but you know just the average person and

by the way average person can mean you

have $50 million I mean the average

person with $50 million doesn't have

some connections and and whatever else

but if you just want to protect yourself

having a home in in Mexico or maybe also

having something in South America is a

good idea you know having something

perhaps in Eastern Europe I've taken a

number of people to Serbia some very

wealthy people they're like this place

is is I just feel like I'll be left

alone uh I'm not saying it's the answer

to all your problems but hey if Europe

just falls apart these people are made

differently Georgia interesting place I

I love to go to Georgia and enjoy the

wine you know there's Islands I'm happy

to have citizenship on small islands and

so you know if I'm thinking about what

are all the different possibilities out

there that could happen in the world

Black Swan events or white swan events

let's call them good stuff happens I'd

rather be seeing all the potential of

Latin America look at Marcato Libre St

by the way I I was aware of Marcato

libbre a long time ago cuz I spend some

time every year in South America and I

see you know what's going on with it I

mean that stock has done incredibly well

I think you'll find more of those kinds

of opportunities if you're surrounded by

people who were down there doing stuff

earlier I mean there are some real if

you look at the Latino metrics

newsletter they talk about real

interesting opportunities in that part

of the world if you spend some time

there you'll find better tips on some

real world changing companies for that

part of the world than you would if you

just spend time in New Zealand and so

that's why I think for a successful

person maybe if you have you know $20

billion maybe New Zealand's better but

if you have $50 million I'd rather be in

Uruguay or Colombia or um somewhere like

that and if I want to bet on a time when

I want a lot of productive land Latin

America I mean Ecuador is extremely

cheap they've had some problems in the

last year or two I still think I mean it

could be interesting some of the

cheapest Farmland in the world that's

accessible to foreigners to buy is in

Latin America so you know even if you

have $50 million and I talked to people

and I talked to people for years who

have $50 million they might say you know

what I don't want to move more than 1%

of my net worth into foreign property or

into that one foreign property that's

productive land that's where I'm going

to go where I have 500 Acres if if all

hell breaks loose you're not getting

much for 500,000 in New Zealand in fact

the reason Peter teal became a New

Zealand citizen is you know why we know

that is because he had to be a citizen

to buy that land so again unless you're

a a multi-billionaire you're going to be

better off just going to a country where

they already allow you to own their land

and buying it at extremely low prices

you know for someone who plans to stay

in their country which a lot of wealthy

people that we talk to do they want to

stay in the US or Canada or Australia uh

and just have options they're not

usually saying hey take 25 of my $50

million and let's go buy land in some

foreign country uh they're trying to get

you know started very slowly and so you

know buying land in some of these

emerging places uh is interesting uh and

so

I think that what makes this all work is

that wealthy people don't have to be in

Ecuador or Colombia or any these places

very often I have the ability to live in

Colombia as long as I want if something

crazy happens if my lifestyle requires

it if I've got a business project that

requires it we are doing more business

in Latin America and with Latin

Americans um but I don't have to be

there really more than one day a year is

what I do and so I have the option of

another requirement the more of those

you have are because you have a

residence permit that allows it or

because you have a citizenship that you

can always go there for the rest of your

life you and your children generally and

their children then it becomes tolerable

right I mean like I don't spend my life

in

Colombia uh and as I get older and more

successful and I've seen a lot of the

exotic places in the world and I've

taken advantage of that there's a part

of me that you know is say all right let

me spend a little bit more time in

places that are a little bit closer to

what I grew up with in the US but

hopefully without the baggage and I've

talked about Ireland and Switzerland I

think as being places that are

comfortable enough for wealthy people to

go that where they function and you can

get citizenship and you can get good

taxes and all that kind of stuff so you

don't have to live in the places that

are up and coming but imagine if you had

a second home in Singapore in the 80s

would that' be worth today and you'd

seem like a

genius and everyone would say wow you're

smart you know it's like people in the

Bitcoin Community always talk about hey

people said oh I wish I would have

bought Bitcoin right well when Bitcoin

was in the tank not very long ago people

were laughing at it oh that's stupid

it's over it's done well now it's back

and now people wish they did it it's the

same thing with countries you want to go

to a country and people are kind of

laughing at it once it's Singapore it's

expensive I'm not saying Singapore can't

be part of your deal even Singaporean

banks are harder to accept clients these

days I just talked to a bank the other

day uh they're the most accepting Bank

we have in Singapore but they want one

and a half million us whereas the banks

that have kind kind of tightened up want

like 200 250 us so you know there's a

choice to be made there uh and more

importantly the Delta has

shrunk uh both on passports georg's

passport some our Georgian colleagues

they just got access Visa free travel to

China today I think geopolitically

that's interesting whether you like

going to China or not it means that more

countries are opening up to places like

Georgia they're not opening up to the US

they're not opening up to other Western

countries I'd like to have some neutral

countries in my portfolio but the

passport difference between the US and

Georgia Now versus even seven or eight

years ago was dramatic let alone now

versus the Soviet times I mean it was

obviously a far different picture uh you

couldn't even leave you know Colombia

Colombians can now go to London the

exact same way as the American can it

was only I was in Colombia in 2015 they

had just gotten Visa free travel to the

shenen area in Europe so less than a

decade ago Colombians I mean you could

travel around Latin America but it

wasn't that good all right for traveling

around the West look at a place like

turkey for example that passport is

pretty good except for the West not a

bad passport to have if you're not

traveling to Europe or the US what if

one day you know things change in turkey

and the relations with Europe improve um

listen that might hurt you in other ways

maybe it's nice to have some

geopolitical diversification but they've

talked about turkey getting access to

the shenen area now you've got a pretty

solid passport and all you had to do to

get it was to buy a property but that

price keeps going up because more and

more people are interested in it so as

noad cus diversifies more and we get

more clients from some of our efforts

that you don't see here online we get

more clients offline we get more

referrals from around the world we're

seeing that those people realize the

benefit of having a plan a plan B plan C

I saw some of the other day mention like

Plan F yeah have a plan F have a plan

for anything that could happen and for

me I don't mind having multiple plans

because I My Lifestyle just enjoys it

it's not like oh my God I'm planning for

the coup I just like to live in

different places I like to have

different homes I like like to have

different just it's enjoyable for me and

so I think that's why I mean the

difference between and by the way no Met

capist Live this year koal and poor

again why Best Value City in the world

not saying it's the best city in the

world but it's up there in my opinion

best

value and uh the difference between koal

and poor and

Milwaukee Adelaide you know

Birmingham it's a lot closer I mean I I

would probably argue that qualm is

better than some cities in the US and

the UK I mean for sure people come

they're like oh my I I didn't know it

would be this nice people from all over

the world came last year to call and

poor and said I wasn't expecting this

I've never been here I wasn't expecting

this people were saying man this isn't

really this isn't really a trade-off

when you factor in much better more

efficient cheaper health care and the

tasty food and it's cheaper like this is

a a steal and that's why unlike unlike

the people who have you know events

where you go to Austin and they try and

tell you how to go overseas and

diversifies a global citizen from Austin

Texas like you're not learning anything

you're just being baby they're just

taking your money our event no math

capitalist live is in qual andour where

I think you should see it and you'll

start to see how the Delta has shrunk so

my point is why would a wealthy person

want to have a toe hold in some of these

emerging countries because they want to

be Diversified across the globe one guy

came to me said I want to I want to have

something on every continent forget

Australia forget obviously Antarctica uh

and if you're calling North America just

the US and Canada like I want Central

America South America Africa uh Europe

maybe even Eastern Europe and then he

already had

Asia and he uh you know he said hey I'll

be cover no matter what happens and my

kids will have

opportunities and you don't have to live

in those places you might have some

great investment returns from some of

those places uh one of those places

might become the next big thing in the

meantime you've Diversified your assets

around the world so that when bad stuff

happens you're covered you got places to

go your money is a little safer that's

why I think people we we helped people

move to Switzerland we've helped people

move to uh to Ireland to Portugal to

Spain um we've help people moved to

Greece I don't know that many people

have moved to

Singapore uh but we've help people moved

we have people who already live in like

I said London who come to us they're

expats in London but you know when

someone comes to us us all the Mexican

clients they're like yeah Canada that's

what all my friends say and I'm like

you're not going to save any money in

taxes you're not going to like the

weather the politics aren't what you

think they are you just are being sold

this brand image and eventually they're

like all right fine and they at least go

to one of the more tax friendly European

countries where they can also get

citizenship I mean if you're Latin

American you can go to Spain you can get

citizenship in a couple of years and you

can do so in a relatively tax friendly

basis harder for non uh Latinos but you

know that's why Eduardo Sab the Facebook

co-founder lives in Singapore I don't I

don't I don't believe maybe haven't seen

I don't believe he's a Singaporean he's

Brazilian so he doesn't live in Brazil

he's got the option to live in Brazil or

around South America like who cares like

you can live wherever you want but why

wouldn't you have want access to all

these different places that's why uh we

tell people who are successful to have

these different places in their

portfolios because that's the growth

that's the future that's the opportunity

and in many of these cases they're

recovering from being anti-freedom and

they're moving in the right direction

whereas Western countries are moving in

the wrong direction I think the secret

to wealth creation is momentum and

that's what wealthy people are looking

for the places that we talk about may

not be there quite yet but they can get

them in their portfolio and grow with

them