How often should you be doing Zone 5 training? | Iñigo San-Millán, Ph.D. & Peter Attia, M.D.
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful transcript, the speaker discusses the four pillars of exercise: stability, strength, low-end aerobic (mitochondrial efficiency), and high-end aerobic (peak aerobic capacity/anaerobic performance). They delve into the importance of maintaining a high VO2 max for longevity, emphasizing the correlation between mitochondrial function and health. The conversation also touches on the sustainability of training regimens, the benefits of high-intensity interval training, and the impact of lactate and cortisol on metabolism, providing a comprehensive view on optimizing exercise for health and performance.
Takeaways
- 🏋️♂️ The four pillars of exercise discussed are stability, strength, low-end aerobic (mitochondrial efficiency), and high-end aerobic (peak aerobic capacity/anaerobic performance).
- 😖 The speaker finds peak aerobic training the least enjoyable and feels it's less relevant for personal health compared to when they were competing.
- 📈 VO2 max is strongly correlated with longevity, and maintaining a certain level can significantly reduce health risks.
- 🔑 The speaker suggests that for their age group, a VO2 max of 50 to 53 mL/kg/min is considered elite and is a good target for health.
- 💊 Exercise is likened to a 'medication' for improving mitochondrial function and metabolic health, which are crucial for longevity.
- 🔄 The importance of sustainable exercise routines is emphasized, as very high-intensity training and extreme diets are not sustainable in the long term.
- 🚴♂️ The speaker discusses the benefits of high-intensity interval training (HIIT) for stimulating glycolytic capacity, which declines with age.
- 🤔 The question of whether to add a high-intensity session or an additional zone two workout to a weekly routine is raised.
- 🚦 A 'four by four protocol' for high-intensity training is mentioned, suggesting four minutes of high-intensity exercise followed by four minutes of recovery, repeated multiple times.
- 🚴♀️ The speaker's personal approach to training includes ending zone two sessions with a high-intensity interval to stimulate both the oxidative and glycolytic systems.
- 🚫 The script warns against starting a workout with high-intensity intervals due to the potential hormonal and metabolic effects, such as lactate inhibiting lipolysis.
Q & A
What are the four pillars of exercise mentioned in the transcript?
-The four pillars of exercise mentioned are stability, strength, low-end aerobic (mitochondrial efficiency), and high-end aerobic (peak aerobic capacity/anaerobic performance).
Why does the speaker find peak aerobic training less enjoyable?
-The speaker finds peak aerobic training less enjoyable because it is the most challenging and painful if done correctly, and it is also less relevant to them since they no longer compete in any sports.
What is the correlation between VO2 max and longevity according to the data mentioned in the script?
-The data suggests that there is a strong correlation between VO2 max and longevity, with VO2 max being one of the variables most strongly linked to a longer life.
What is the VO2 max requirement for the speaker to be considered in the top 2.5 to 2.7 percent of the population?
-The speaker's VO2 max requirement to be considered in the top 2.5 to 2.7 percent of the population is about 50 to 53 milliliters per minute per kilogram.
Why is mitochondrial function important for health and longevity?
-Mitochondrial function is crucial for health and longevity because it is linked to metabolic health, and there is an aging process where we lose mitochondrial function, which can be improved through exercise.
What is the 'four by four protocol' mentioned for high-intensity training?
-The 'four by four protocol' is a training method where the individual performs high-intensity exercise for four minutes, followed by four minutes of recovery, repeated four to six times.
How does the speaker incorporate high-intensity training into their routine?
-The speaker incorporates high-intensity training by doing a very high-intensity interval at the end of their regular zone two workouts, aiming for about five minutes of intense effort.
What is the importance of glycolytic capacity and why is it important to stimulate it as we age?
-Glycolytic capacity is important because it helps maintain energy production during high-intensity activities. As we age, we lose glycolytic capacity, so it's essential to stimulate it to maintain overall fitness and health.
Why is it recommended not to start a workout with high-intensity intervals?
-Starting with high-intensity intervals can lead to hormonal responses and high lactate levels in the blood, which can inhibit lipolysis and the transport of fatty acids, thus affecting the workout's effectiveness.
How does lactate affect the body during and after high-intensity exercise?
-Lactate can inhibit lipolysis and decrease the activity of cpt-1 and cpt-2, which are involved in the transport of fatty acids. High lactate levels can also lead to a state of anemia and increase cortisol levels.
What does the speaker mean by 'dedicated energy system' in the context of zone two training?
-A 'dedicated energy system' refers to spending a specific amount of time in a targeted heart rate or power output zone, in this case, zone two, without oscillating between different zones, which ensures the training is effective for that specific energy system.
Outlines
🏋️♂️ Exercise Pillars and Health Longevity
The speaker discusses the four pillars of exercise: stability, strength, low-end aerobic (mitochondrial efficiency), and high-end aerobic (peak aerobic capacity/anaerobic performance). They admit a struggle to find time for high-intensity training, which is both challenging and less relevant to their current non-competitive lifestyle. They highlight the correlation between VO2 max and longevity, mentioning that while a high VO2 max is beneficial, it doesn't need to be at an elite level for health benefits. The importance of mitochondrial function and metabolic health is underscored, with exercise being the 'medication' to improve these aspects. The conversation also touches on the sustainability of training regimes and the preference for a mix of training intensities to stimulate both energy systems effectively.
🚴♂️ Balancing Training Intensity for Health and Performance
In this paragraph, the focus is on how to balance different training intensities to maximize health benefits and maintain performance levels. The speaker talks about their personal training routine, emphasizing the importance of consistency in zone two training and incorporating high-intensity intervals at the end of sessions to stimulate glycolytic capacity and mitochondrial function. They discuss the physiological effects of lactate on lipolysis and the potential negative impacts of high-intensity training if not properly sequenced within a workout. The paragraph concludes with advice on how to structure workouts for optimal benefits, suggesting a four by four protocol of high-intensity intervals for those looking to improve VO2 max. The speaker also addresses the importance of understanding true training zones and the pitfalls of inconsistent training patterns.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Exercise Pillars
💡Mitochondrial Efficiency
💡VO2 Max
💡Anaerobic Performance
💡Glycolytic System
💡Sustainability in Training
💡Zone 2
💡High-Intensity Interval Training (HIIT)
💡Lactate
💡CPT-1 and CPT-2
💡Cortisol
Highlights
The four pillars of exercise are identified as stability, strength, low-end aerobic (mitochondrial efficiency), and high-end aerobic (peak aerobic capacity/anaerobic performance).
Peak aerobic exercises, though least enjoyable, are crucial for stimulating the energy systems and seeing rewards from training.
The relevance of high-end aerobic training diminishes with age, especially when not competing in sports.
VO2 max is highly correlated with longevity, indicating the importance of maintaining a certain level of fitness for health.
The necessity of a sustainable exercise routine for long-term health benefits, as extreme training and diets are not sustainable.
Mitochondrial function and metabolic health are key factors in longevity and are improved through exercise.
The idea of using exercise as a 'medication' to increase mitochondrial function for better metabolic health and longevity.
The importance of not only maintaining VO2 max but also glycolytic capacity as we age.
A suggested training protocol of four minutes of high-intensity exercise followed by four minutes of recovery, repeated four to six times.
The dilemma of choosing between an additional zone two workout or a VO2 max protocol for optimal health.
The impact of high-intensity training on hormonal responses and lactate levels, and their effects on lipolysis and fatty acid transport.
The recommendation to perform high-intensity intervals at the end of a zone two session to target both energy systems effectively.
The importance of consistency in training to improve mitochondrial and glycolytic function.
The distinction between oscillating between different training zones and dedicating time to a specific energy system for better results.
The significance of power output and heart rate consistency in elite athletes and its implications for effective training.
A clarification on the misconception of training duration versus dedicated time spent in a specific training zone for actual benefits.
A disclaimer stating that the podcast is for informational purposes only and should not replace professional medical advice.
A note on conflicts of interest and the importance of transparency regarding affiliations with companies or investments.
Transcripts
of the four pillars of exercise in my
world uh stability strength
low end aerobic which i described really
is they talk about it as kind of
mitochondrial efficiency and then
high-end aerobic which is peak aerobic
capacity slash anaerobic performance so
anaerobic power peak aerobic
low end aerobic mitochondrial efficiency
strength stability of those
four
i for some reason struggle to make the
time
for the peak aerobic
in part because
i
one it's the least enjoyable truth if
we're going to be brutally honest if
you're doing it right it hurts the most
it's also no longer as relevant because
i don't compete at anything right like
it was i actually really enjoyed that
type of training when i competed because
you have to spend time in that energy
system and you see the rewards
of you know repeating
minute you know re reap you know 60
minutes of repeating two minute
intervals or something like that yeah
so if we're if we're really talking
about this from the lens of health
maximizing health
the data are unambiguous that vo2 max is
highly correlated with longevity in a in
unlike
there are not many variables that are
more strongly correlated
so but the levels don't have to be that
high right we're not i mean yeah
pogocher's vo2max is probably 85
you know or it's probably in the 80s at
least in terms of milliliters per minute
per kilogram
but someone my age
to be considered absolutely elite which
means the top 2.5 to 2.7 percent of the
population which carries with it a
five-fold reduction in risk to the
bottom 25 percent of the population
uh my vo2 max requirement is about 50 to
53
milliliters per minute per kilogram
so the question is
can i use that as the gauge for how much
high intensity training i need to do
basically just enough to make sure i
maintain that vo2 max or do you think
about it in a different way well i think
about it more again the bioenergetics
energy energy systems right i think that
uh ultimately and we know that
longevity is also high related with
mitochondrial function
and metabolic health i think that more
and more and and and this is why you see
in so many fields in in medicine
nowadays right that
everybody is stumbling upon mitochondria
right um
and and so there's an aging process
where we lose mitochondrial function
uh and there's like a sedentary um a
component right where we lose
mitochondrial function um
i wish that we could have a medication
appeal you could take it and increase
the mitochondrial function because it
would increase
metabolic health and longevity but the
only medication that we know is exercise
and the medic and with an exercise that
the right the dose that we see that
improves the most and and also is
sustainable in the long term which is
another important concept you know
very high intensity training
is not sustainable very extreme diets
are not sustainable if you combine both
it's even worse and this is what a lot
of people are doing together but you
need to have some sustainability but
this is what it was in this this is
important to improve that mitochondrial
function but going back to that high
intensity i think is necessary because
we also lose glycolytic capacity as we
age and it's important to stimulate it
as you very well said for all of us
we're not competing
i couldn't care less about
being super high intensity
because i'm not competing but that's it
i want to have also my adrenaline rush
you know so like many people like but
how much does it feed into it so for
example if and i've often thought about
this now as i just want to make sure my
zone 2 is above three watts per kilo
would i be better off taking that extra
training if i have one additional
training session per week should i make
it an additional zone two workout so
then do i do four now should i be doing
a fifth one or
should i be taking that fifth one and
doing
a vo2 max protocol and that's that's
what we'll typically prescribe to our
patients is a four by four protocol of
you know highest intensity sustained for
four minutes followed by four minutes of
recovery and and then repeat that four
five six times
uh you know when you put that when you
put a warm-up and cool down on either
end of that you know that's a little
over an hour
um so you could would you spend that
hour doing that in an effort to make
your zone two even better
or would you just do an extra hour of
zone two
no that's a really good question so what
i what i i i agree i agree that uh you
can if you have a fifth day
you can convert it into any type of high
intensity uh session structured
or what i can tell people also hey if
you're a cyclist or a runner and you
want to go with your friends that's your
group ride yeah if you're right go ahead
and boom go at it or or if you don't
have the possibility
this is my situation for example where i
i don't have the time to train more than
an hour and a half usually two hours max
right so what i do almost on every
session i do my zone two
so it's clean
and at the end that's what i do a very
high intensity interval
and tell me the duration so if you did
an hour of zone two yeah so i do usually
let's say an hour and a half right so uh
and so you'll do an hour and a half of
zone two three or four times a week yeah
i try i shoot for four or five
but it'll not have all the time it's
easy uh but yeah i should for five
minutes try to be strict on that but
let's say that yeah the last uh and
unfortunately that you know i where i
live you know like uh i leave it more in
a
it's highlands area and uh so you have
to go up so the last part i just
i just go at it you know sometimes you
you find another cyclist and you just
compete you know to see who's the
the fastest in that short climb but i
tried to do like a good five minute
interval roughly um uh where i really
like kind of like i go hard at it and an
then alright i arrived home like
man i i kicked my ass today or or this
kicked my ass today or or sometimes you
try it and you don't have the energy as
i mentioned earlier oh my gosh i can
barely move the pedals today i just quit
and go home
but when i feel fresh you know that's
what i stimulate that glycolytic system
what we know well too is that
you know that increases the
mitochondrial function it takes months
or years
increasing the glycolytic system it
takes much much more
less amount of time you can do that in
weeks or months
and you can just if you stimulate a
regular base
two days a week or three days a week at
the end of that zone two that's where
you can target both
energy systems right the oxidative
mitochondrial system and the glycolytic
and we don't blunt it we don't we don't
we don't
blunt the benefit we had from the zone
two if we immediately follow it with the
zone five no because that's done right
that's not
what you see is like if you do things in
the middle but you don't want to do the
reverse order
yes and we don't want to start with the
high intensity exactly one of these like
because you start having all these
hormonal responses and also you see you
have high lactate levels in the blood
and what we know very well is like
lactate inhibits lipolysis
so if you have a high interval in the
middle or the beginning and you don't
clearly lactate very well you might have
high lactic levels for a while
and it's going to inhibit life policies
right also another study we have under
review lactate
at the outer cream level
it decreases the activity of cpt-1 and
cpt-2 so interface with the transport of
fatty acids as well
so that's where like if you do all these
you might change things you have high
cortisol cortisol anemia as well and
that's an important point i i'm glad you
raised that because i explained this to
patients when they say
um
i went out and did a two-hour ride today
and it showed me that i spent 45 of
those minutes 45 of those 120 minutes
were in zone 2. so i did 45 minutes of
zone 2 and i said no you didn't really
do it because you were going up and down
and up and down and up and down and so
that's not the same as spending 45
minutes in the dedicated uh energy
system you're right and if you i mean
when i look at the training picks you
know like you see the elite athletes
they're like
what power output and heart rate this is
like close together
incredible you know where yeah you're
right up now and down the average might
be zone two but actually you're between
oscillating so once on three zone four
all the time
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[Music]
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