The Marketing Opportunities and Challenges With The Rise Of AI

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I think AI overall though is far bigger

than people realize people are scared of

it there's so much fear of like I'm

going to lose my job the robots are

going to kill

[Music]

us and that Providence moment of truth's

about to come very handy cuz AI is about

to make a lot of fake stuff there's

already videos of me on the internet of

me saying things in my voice that I

didn't say I'm thinking about becoming a

music artist I think I can be good at

music one problem I can't sing for [ __ ]

and I'm not Musical

it's pendulum swings technology in

technology out and I think I will use AI

to actually make hit music I really

believe that before I'm done I would

argue food styling and commercials is

more [ __ ] AI than AI yeah I haven't

seen a [ __ ] Whopper in my life yeah

that looks like the ones on TV I think

that this is a demonization of modern

technology that is a misnomer of human

behavior there will be incredible room

for originally created Human Art but

there will be incredible room for

generative art so I haven't had a full

conversation with anybody yet this week

on the record about AI I figure you are

a good person to pick their brain on

around Ai and less about where it's

going to go in marketing and advertising

but more how consumers are overall going

to feel about it and general Society CU

I think you have generally been smart

about how you think about the future um

and so I I want to start with actually

looking back for a moment you know you

made a huge bet on nfts and eventually

morphed it into Vayner 3 yep uh as you

saw the nft market change and how

Society feels about metaverse and all

that change over time so I'm curious

what lessons you learned from that

knowing that AI is also the next big

thing and I know they're different

because that was a platform and this is

a society changing techology no it's a

it's a very smart question no no I think

you're right

similarities it's interesting like if

you look back at my content on web 3 and

specifically nfts and you got to dissect

it I think the same thing is going to

happen with AI you're going to

appreciate this in a world where

everything is headline reading yeah I'm

sure that you actually I'm C I need to

start asking more journalists like how

they feel about most people just reading

their headline and not their actual work

so let's break it down uh I'll go

backwards and I'll go forwards backwards

so much of our biggest point of view was

that metaverse wasn't real that there

was nobody actually there back to day

trading attention

yeah comma blockchain was a profound

technology I think blockchain's

relationship with AI and deep fake

videos is going to be a really

interesting conversation over the next

10 years yeah three you know my biggest

point of view is that 99% of nfts were

going to go to zero and that the 1%

would be meaningful Collectibles like

trading cards and comic books and and uh

sneak

speakers biggest learnings that I apply

to where we're going to go with AI one

they are different because the nft was a

form an individual form factor on top of

a technology

yeah uh that was also based on

collectible speculation which created so

much of the radical ups and downs yeah

AI is oxygen it's such a profound

overwhelming technology but I think I

think the parallels will be similar for

Madison Avenue I think the biggest

observation is that uh M Madison Avenue

is very different than Silicon Valley

yeah so I think the depth of

conversation at AI at the conference has

been really interesting it's by far the

buzziest word yeah I think back to what

I focus on with it which is about like

today yeah I think the biggest AI

conversation that I'm sh you know what I

was surprised about even though I you

know was funny you said earlier it

wasn't surprised but I was surprised

yeah I'm not I'm not surprised but I'm

surprised the biggest AI conversation

currently in marketing is the algorithms

of the four U pages of all these social

networks yeah the most significant AI

that our industry is feeling is in that

environment H now to Consumer

yeah uh people are scared of it there's

so much fear of like I'm going to lose

my job this is bad the robots are going

to kill us so there'll be a sector that

I think will be similar to electricity

when it first came out yeah electricity

was like incredibly demonized when it

was first available to people the most

common belief at the time was there was

demons in it and so you should still use

candles yeah cool right yeah have you do

you know that have you ever heard Google

it or or chat GPT it back to the point

perplexity it or perplexity it um so so

I think that's what's that that's my

historical comp that I'm feeling people

are very very worried about it yeah I

think you'll have a a a a group of that

I think there's we're already seeing

profound profound consumer changes

so I hate using a focus group of one but

boy did it capture my attention my

37-year-old brother and co-founder

Vayner who runs our sports agency now he

doesn't use search anymore at all 100%

of his search behavior is that chat chbt

or perplex or things of that nature so I

think you're going to have an entire

generation of gen Alpha and young gen Z

that is going to like potentially

probably gen

Alpha potentially live in a world where

they don't even know what a search

engine is the way that how old are you

36 did you ever use the Yellow Pages

yeah oh yeah yeah you caught it a little

bit 30 no but you're right no no no but

you're you know as you know if you have

if you have a younger sing libling under

30 like no shot that there's people 25

that don't even know when I use the

reference they don't even know yeah so I

I think it's going to be the classic

thing I do think the te I I view that so

nfts was a build on top of a big

technology known as blockchain

and that Providence Moment of Truth is

about to come very handy cuz AI is about

to make a lot of fake stuff there's

already videos of me on the internet of

me saying things in my voice that I

didn't say so providance on the

blockchain is going to actually become

pretty powerful yeah I think AI overall

though is far bigger than people realize

yeah and so what do I think I think

you'll have some early users that are

going to get a lot of value out of it

you're going to have 50 to 70%

incumbents that are going to demonize it

or demonize it cuz they can't make money

out it or demonize it because they're

scared of it yeah this one isn't going

to be fatty like nfts this one is going

to slow build like social media yeah

yeah I'm in that very unique age range

where I started High School where nobody

had a phone I finished high school

everybody had a flip phone started

college maybe a few people had a

smartphone and by the time I finished

College everyone yeah makes sense yeah

it's a funny group so in eight years

went from phone personal phone wasn't a

thing unless you were an adult to the

superu the iPhone whatever you needed in

your

um but I want I want to ask about your

point about blockchain are you pointing

out blockchain and and deep fakes from

the standpoint of blockchain can track

how something the progress of something

so we'll be able to verify something is

accurate based off every video every

video I make I'm going to put I'm going

to make an nft a nonf funable token the

way everyone knows nfts right now is a

collectible and the way they know it

right this second is a collectible that

was like fatty yeah but nfts aren't

beanie babies in individual projects at

nft land are Beanie Babies nfts are

stuffed animals they will be

forever one of the most important use

cases I think in the next decade of

nfts is going to be using the blockchain

to put your content on to say all the

content that I make about me is here

first then I'm putting it on the

internet so anything that you see that

you think is from me you better go see

the providance because this is somebody

manipulating what I'm saying we've lived

in a 100 Years of believing every video

that we've seen is true we're about to

go just your 8year analogy let me use it

now as a as a build we will go from

everybody here sees any video they

believe it's 100% true to an 8 to 10

Years everybody here seeing a video and

not believing it's true yeah that is

societally a it is it is until you say

wait a minute or the blockchain and then

truth and so I agree with you in the

short term it's like who yeah but this

is why I'm kind of uh very fascinated by

the blockchain Yeah Yeah I've been

pleasantly surprised there hasn't been a

ton of deakes around the election yet I

mean I assume we event going to get

there but I guess maybe we're too far

away from November but uh yeah I I'm I'm

curious how you see the perception of

how societal perception of of generative

AI is going to change cuz I think we

already saw the first bit of it with the

Apple ad where even though it was

ounting AI you know it was crushing art

and I think people view AI as we don't

want it to replace art so do you are you

optimistic that people are going to put

up a fight and save arts and not give

into just well anybody can create any

kind of content using no Ai and that's

it no do you know that everyone thought

a canvas piece of art was not art

hundreds of years ago that if you did

not do art on a actual building wall

that that wasn't real art there was an

incredible fight that art on canvas was

fake

art I one of my good strengths this

history tells me the future this is my

second cool H yeah okay and I and you

can see how my brain works a little bit

and this is when I see new things like

this I'm like let me get educated it's

not like I know all this you know I do

the research right and then it becomes

part of my life so I think it's I think

this industry actually this is a good

parallel to the overall industry and

it's the answer to your question I

believe one of the biggest shortcomings

of our industry is that we like or not

and sure the answer to your question is

and yeah there will be incredible room

for originally created Human Art yeah

but there will be incredible room for

generative art yeah and the consumer

will accept both you know why cuz

they're already consuming both they're

already accepting both yeah the indust

the world world is not the opinions of

the artists that this EV yeah the

opinion is of the 8 billion people and

how they interact with the art

yeah so to that point do you I mean when

when something like let's just talk

music with AI music is going to become

even easier for anybody to figure out

how to make do you see Society pushing

in a way where someone who can play a

violent at a high skill is going to get

pushed out for somebody who can create

whatever on their laptop on their phone

using AI or do you still see a future in

which both of those are going to be

equally valued and that we're going to

really fight hard to protect human made

art I think both will happen what about

house EDM music what about DJs yeah I

mean everybody told us electron what

about uh uh autotune yeah t pay [ __ ]

had every hit song for three-year window

uh I I'm very bullish on Ant I think to

your point like I'm thinking about

becoming a music

artist I talk in the way that would work

really well for music I'm very you know

I'm good for interviews right like I

it's how my brain works analogies

Snippets headlines um I think I can be

good at music one problem I can't sing

for [ __ ] and I'm not musical I got that

in common with you and

me I can play mean saxophone can't sing

a tune that's pretty cool so I got

nothing yeah other than I think I can

write Hooks and have bars and and I

think I will use AI to actually make hit

music I really believe that before I'm

done yeah and so will some people say

like what the [ __ ] [ __ ] Gary VZ now

of course they will yeah I I could 93%

will 7% will say like the same thing you

know is aichi good some people think

aichi is the best yeah other people

think that he just took other people's

[ __ ] so is Andy Warhol the best at the

time was the worst now we think he's the

best some people think he's the best

some think and so I I really I'll go

back to my and I think that and uh let's

talk about technology I couldn't believe

more in Social and the phone do I

believe that now that we've had 15 years

of it that a lot of people enjoy putting

their phone in a safe for a week and not

being on a phone I sure do it's pendulum

swings yeah technology in technology out

you know D D D D D D and so this you

know look at Fashion

yeah every 20 30 years are we supposed

to wear tight jeans or loose jeans yeah

you know

like so that's I I think that's what's

going to happen with music and

entertainment yeah I mean I think we've

seen it seen to an extent with social

media I mean you know if you would have

told me 10 years ago that by 2024 I

would have pretty much given up sharing

any part of my life on social which is a

thing that a lot of people are starting

to buy into I think you I would have

said you're crazy but I think eventually

also just grew tired of sharing our

lives constantly I I live the life the

whole time people are very confused when

they I don't think people realize how I

played it I've never shared a single

thing about my personal life

yeah I it makes so much sense to me why

would I want to give up my privacy yeah

there's nothing more valuable yeah what

my relationships my family I'm one of

the most prolific content producers of

the last 15 years yeah with zero of it

being about my personal life so I

understand that's I saw that coming from

a mile away yeah putting my children in

my content what if they don't want it

yeah putting my relationship so that the

world didn't anybody see what they do to

Brad and Angelina like why are you

giving the world obviously not we're not

all famous but if you're by the way when

your life is small when 30 40 people

your relatives and your friends are your

world their judgment on your

relationship is powerful

yeah yeah uh so let's let's let's start

to bring this a little back back yeah

Mark let do uh have you when you talk

with your clients and brands in general

have you started to see

Brands figure out where the line is on

where they want to use gen one more time

my friend have the brands your clients

started to draw a line in terms of where

the line is on gen so for example Dove

Dove has said we'll use gen gen but we

will never generate a human got it got

it no we we think that our

recommendation to our clients is don't

jump out too fast yeah that would be

like there was uh we had there was

clients it's buried in history now that

said they would never use influencers

they only believe in real celebrities um

no we've we've uh our conversations with

clients my conversations with clients

are very heavily predicated on um the

following which

is you don't need to make an official

statement yet right we like this is very

profound technology sure many of the

Bill Gates said the web was a

fad he's a smart man you don't a little

you know you don't need to be out in

front you know like you know like let's

like let's take a beat uh and so that

has been our recommendation and I think

that's the right thing like it's early

ready for this I'm on the record that's

saying Dove at some point in its

consumer brand Journey will make

generative people

okay because not that I believe that

anyone at Unilever is a hypocrite or

stupid or is wrong but in 27 years yeah

when it's a different regime and

generative AI human content is

incredibly important yeah I don't think

that Dove is going to want to give up

market

share very fair you know so like I'm

sure it's and by the way I know that

it's well intended it actually comes you

know I think most things are well int

like eighth place trophies were

incredibly well intended but I think

looking at history it's not going to be

viewed as a positive thing for kid

development yeah Dove talking about real

Beauty that's a beautiful like it comes

from such a good place yeah on the

record I don't see any scenario that in

35 years they haven't done it cuz it'll

be a competitive disadvantage to a

business yeah I mean even even in

instances where so I was talking to the

CEO of

um he was C of okrp and now he's part of

brol thy and he said you know I have

restaurant clients who they'll let us

use gen for anything except the food

100% because they their chefs they only

want to show things their chefs can

actually make and even if they use gen

to Perfection nobody made that burger

let me let me take the Counterpoint yeah

every single commercial that Burger King

shows the Whopper looks nothing like the

Whoppers I get at Burger

King it's a good point

uh yeah food styling is a thing no [ __ ]

I would argue food styling and

commercials yeah is more [ __ ] AI than

AI yeah I haven't seen a [ __ ] Whopper

in my life yeah that looks like the ones

on TV yeah do you do you have a sense

with brands that they even have their

heads wrapped around gen AI that well

because I was talking to Sir John

hegerty earlier today and I asked him

pretty much the same question h of you

know are have you seen Brands draw the

line and he and he goes well no I mean

it's it's so early days that most of

them I think he said can't [ __ ] wrap

their head around it or don't I forget

exactly what he said but you know he

basically said they don't know what

they're doing and someone as someone

irresponsible for that as someone who

came into this industry and has been in

it now for 15 years I'm so glad that sir

said that cuz I've always liked him a

lot actually I always have uh uh he's a

smart guy and he's right that's

absolutely my take I said I think it

earlier Madison Avenue versus Silicon

Valley like it with all due respect and

this is an incredible Community Tech

deep technology knowledge is not what's

happening here this is sales and

marketing and so yeah no I don't think

they have their heads wrapped around it

and by the way there's a lot to get

through with copyright and trademark law

yeah this is probably one of the more

conservative stances we've taken as an

organization we want to really

understand like where the content's

coming from like because we have to

indemnify our clients so I'm like

[ __ ] like are you kidding me I'm not

looking to battle Disney if they claim

that the elephant that was made from

this was inspired by the Dumbo IP yeah

so we got a little ways to go I think

he's right I think it's early I again

especially after four glasses of Ros at

can people like to pontificate about

their knowledge about AI it's not H this

is not the epicenter of AI this is an

industry that will be affected by the

epicenter

which is the technology sector yeah you

brought up algorithms earlier and know

we've talked a lot about geni but with

algorithms it's also a very good point

because we've seen how quickly Society

has fractured how content has fractured

in terms of audience my Tik Tok feed is

going to be drastically different than

yours ESP different harriets and so

we're losing a sense of community

because we're we slowly growing into I'm

fans of these people you're fans of

these people and you have no idea who

are I I would I would argue that that is

a false Po in the society right now okay

let's take it back pre- social media you

chose to watch Fox and I chose to watch

CNN you chose to read the New York Times

and I chose to read po but the options

were much fewer now there's a million

different influencers and 72 may end up

in my feed and you might have two of the

same ones just cuz the options were few

do you know what the average amount of

channels people watched when they had 36

channels to choose from in Prime cable

era in the 80s

three the options were fewer yeah but I

still didn't watch Food TV I watched

ESPN and I watched when the Jets

highlights were on and I turned off when

the Broncos highlights were on I I think

that this is a demonization of modern

technology that is a misnomer of human

behavior yeah the fragmentation has

existed forever yeah people always read

the books they want and read the

newspapers and watch the TV and listen

to the radio yes to your point

absolutely on fewer options the misnomer

is we didn't take advantage of those

fewer

options I'm not quite un I at that

Point's not Landing for me cuz you know

if back in say the '90s or ' 80s when

you had fewer options and cable to use

TV is first exploding we saw K you know

amount of people who watch a program

far higher than today so you went into

the office correct you likely had a

number of people correct who you could

talk to about something and so what I'm

saying is more it's fragmented so much

that I could go in the office and

there's no guarantee that any single

person that that I'm a buyer on that I'm

a buyer on I'm a full buy I'm a full

buyer that but I would I would say the

Nuance there

is that um that the genre of it would be

within the same realm meaning you may

know of a hip-hop artist that's emerging

that I don't know yeah but we may both

like hip-hop yeah right and I would

actually say the discoverability of that

game is real but to your point the

extreme fragmentation is well taken yeah

and I'm a very big believer in that um I

don't think it's focus groups of one

yeah but we've definitely to your point

gone to smaller groups of interests yeah

but the and so I think we're going to

find out what that all means yeah to

your point we all watched Mash yeah now

we all watch humor in 87 pieces of mash

that add up to one Mash yeah and to your

point that I think you're making is that

has the potential to make us not be as

connected yeah and I think that's real

yeah uh I know I get excited when my

wife shares a Tik Tok that I've already

seen cuz it's like almost a shared

experience of like oh I've already seen

it I can laugh at this already yeah um

where's I going to go from there so do

you see do you see a Tipping Point in

which at some point we are all driven

back to maybe more

communal yeah I think so I don't think

but I don't think in the short term at

all you're 36 yeah you know back to like

guessing this I definitely don't know

but if I if I had to bet the farm like

Gary I'm sorry you have to bet

yeah when you're 60

I think we're in the actually I think

we're still in the very beginning of

fragmentation at scale yeah yeah

honestly I do think loneliness is a big

concern of mine of fragmentation at

scale yeah absolutely I believe that

there is absolute early indicators to

that but I also think that requires

human accountability to be more

multi-dimensional yeah like to be more

selfless not selfish I have my interests

but let me be curious and selfless and

open to on my friends interest so that

we connect it's it's an in this is a

real I'm very fascinated by this combo I

spend a lot of time thinking about this

it's actually by the way why I think

everyone has marketing wrong the idea

that you're going to make a 30second

commercial and you're going to pump it

on television yeah and it's going to

work is [ __ ] delusional in the truth

of the world yeah final question as

we're pretty much at time here is just

you know with with uh streaming TV and

the ability to really understand who

that first is you're showing have you

guys begun thinking about using AI to

create God knows how many versions of

that ad to show each person the way

you're already doing with your vein

volume model for social and everything

yes we have but we do believe it is

still a trademark and and copyright

issue and we will not go full generative

AI over production until there's more CL

this goes back to why I think Dove is

well intended but a little premature

yeah it's early and we have a lot of

things to figure out yeah cool cool