Janet Yellen on GDP Report, Bond Yields, China

Summary

Yellen discusses the current economic outlook, arguing the data shows the US is not in recession despite high inflation. She cites strong GDP growth, job creation, and consumer spending as positives but recognizes Americans feel anxious about the economy. Yellen outlines administration policies aimed at boosting inclusive growth through infrastructure, R&D spending, and investments in places left behind. On global issues, she calls for focus on human impacts of Middle East violence and says supply chain 'friend-shoring' can balance security with globalization's benefits. Despite political divides, Yellen expresses confidence policymakers are advancing sound reforms.

Takeaways

• 😊 Yellen sees signs of a potential soft landing for the US economy with solid growth, low unemployment, and declining inflation.
• 📈 She believes there is a path to bring down inflation while maintaining a strong labor market, contrary to past recession predictions.
• 😕 While personal finances seem good, Yellen notes Americans feel more pessimistic about the overall US economy after a tough few years.
• 👷‍♂️ She highlights new investments and job opportunities aimed at helping communities that have seen decades of economic decline.
• 📉 On rising yields, Yellen sees it reflecting economic resilience and rates staying higher for longer rather than deficit concerns.
• ❤️ On Israel-Hamas, she stresses the human suffering and containing the conflict over economic impact for now.
• 🔒 Yellen affirms no Iranian oil proceeds have been released from frozen accounts for humanitarian needs.
• 🌍 On China relations, she supports competition in some areas but also mutually beneficial trade and working together on shared global issues.
• 🏭 Her 'modern supply-side economics' policy aims to sustainably increase US productive capacity and equitable growth.
• 😊 Despite political divides, Yellen sees competent professionals dedicated to sound policymaking across government.

Q & A

What was the GDP growth rate in Q3 that was discussed?

The GDP growth rate in Q3 was 4.9%, which was described as a robust pace.

Does Secretary Yellen think the US has avoided a recession?

Secretary Yellen believes there is now a path to bring down inflation while maintaining a strong labor market, avoiding a recession. She sees signs of a potential soft landing for the economy.

Why does Secretary Yellen think consumer sentiment on the economy is poor despite personal finances being good?

She believes Americans have faced many difficulties recently with the pandemic, lockdowns, and inflation. Also, many have seen stagnant incomes and lost jobs over decades, so there is pessimism on if that will improve.

What is driving the rise in Treasury yields according to Secretary Yellen?

She believes higher yields largely reflect resilience in the economy - that growth remains strong suggesting rates will stay high, rather than concerns about the deficit.

How concerned is Secretary Yellen about the level of real net interest costs?

She says fiscal sustainability is critical. If rates stay high more deficit reduction is needed to keep real net interest costs well below 2% of GDP.

What are the next steps to restrict financing to Hamas?

Secretary Yellen would not comment on specifics, but said further sanctions are being considered after recently added sanctions, and her team is engaging allies on joint sanctions.

What is the concept of 'friend-shoring' that Secretary Yellen discusses?

It involves diversifying and reassuring supply chains to reduce over-reliance on certain countries, while still maintaining benefits of global trade with trusted partners.

How does Secretary Yellen describe the economic strategy towards China?

She outlines an approach of risk diversification in some areas, protecting national security interests, while still promoting healthy competition and mutually beneficial trade.

How does Secretary Yellen's 'modern supply-side economics' differ from past Republican approaches?

She sees it as investing in areas like infrastructure, R&D, and education to drive equitable growth, rather than tax cuts for the wealthy that have not created broad prosperity.

Does Secretary Yellen think there's still room for apolitical technocrats in policymaking?

Yes, she believes much progress is still made by competent civil servants and professionals, citing examples like implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act that rely on non-partisan expertise.

Outlines

00:00

📈 Robust Economic Growth in Q3

The paragraph discusses the strong economic growth in the third quarter, with a 4.9% GDP growth rate. It talks about whether this growth rate is sustainable and avoids a recession given still high inflation. Yellen believes there is a path to reduce inflation while maintaining a strong labor market, avoiding a recession.

05:01

🏭 Investments Creating Economic Opportunities

The paragraph discusses how the Biden administration is investing in infrastructure, R&D, and clean energy that is creating economic opportunities and jobs, especially for lower income communities. Yellen believes this will lead to broader shared prosperity compared to past 'trickle down' approaches.

10:01

📉 Fiscal Sustainability and Deficit Reduction

The paragraph talks about the importance of fiscal sustainability and deficit reduction. It mentions measures taken already for deficit reduction and that more may be needed if interest rates stay high. The goal is to keep the deficit manageable and real net interest costs below 2% of GDP.

15:03

😢 Human Suffering the Priority in Israel-Hamas War

The paragraph discusses the Israel-Hamas war and the human suffering as the main concern. It talks about efforts to restrict financing to Hamas through sanctions. The economic consequences so far have been limited but they are monitoring risks if the conflict expands regionally.

20:03

❌ No Access by Iran to Blocked Funds

The paragraph states that Iran has not accessed any of the $6 billion in oil proceeds assets blocked by the US Treasury in a Korean bank account that can only be used for humanitarian purposes.

25:05

🌍 Resilient Global Supply Chains, Not Decoupling from China

The paragraph discusses the strategy of resilient global supply chains through diversification, not decoupling from China - maintaining competition and mutually beneficial trade while addressing national security concerns. Efforts are underway to deepen economic ties with China and other nations.

30:08

🏛 Bipartisan Policy Progress Despite Dysfunction

The paragraph states that despite political dysfunction, there has been meaningful bipartisan legislation passed under Biden-Harris. Yellen believes there is still plenty of scope for competent professionals dedicated to good policymaking to serve in government and make a difference.

Keywords

💡Economic growth

The script discusses the latest US economic growth figures, with GDP expanding at a 4.9% annual rate in Q3 2022. This refers to the overall production of goods and services in the economy. Strong growth suggests economic resilience and contradicts predictions of imminent recession.

💡Inflation

Persistently high inflation is an economic concern mentioned in the script, reducing consumers' purchasing power. The Fed aims to lower inflation through interest rate hikes.

💡Recession

There were predictions the US could enter recession in 2023, but the script suggests positive Q3 growth makes this less likely in the near-term.

💡Labor market

The script praises the strong job market, with high labor force participation and low unemployment. This supports consumer spending power.

💡Consumer spending

The script cites healthy consumer spending, enabled by savings accumulated during the pandemic, as driving economic growth.

💡Infrastructure

Government infrastructure investment is discussed as laying foundations for future economic growth by repairing roads, bridges etc.

💡Clean energy

Legislation like the Inflation Reduction Act aims to spur job creation in clean energy, cited as a growth industry.

💡Interest rates

The script links rising Treasury yields to expectations that interest rates will stay higher for longer given the economy's resilience.

💡Fiscal policy

Fiscal reforms to control budget deficits and stabilize debt levels are mentioned as important for long-term US growth prospects.

💡Global economy

The video underscores interlinkages between the recovering US economy and the global economic outlook.

Highlights

GDP growth of 4.9% in Q3 shows a robust economy, but not expecting that pace to continue

See solid economic growth, low unemployment, increased labor participation - no signs of recession

Investing in America through infrastructure, R&D spending - opportunities for those lacking college education

Higher yields reflect global phenomenon and resilience of US economy - interest rates likely higher for longer

Fiscal sustainability is critical - Biden committed to show it through deficit reduction measures

Focus on Middle East is the human tragedy unfolding - monitoring economic consequences carefully

Taken many steps to sanction and reduce financing to Hamas - looking at further opportunities

Supply chain security realizing over-dependence on countries like China - need to diversify

Economic strategy with China - healthy competition, mutually beneficial trade and investment

Modern supply-side economics aims for equitable growth benefiting all Americans over long term

$600B+ new investments occurring in hurting parts of country - creating opportunities

Biden-Harris succeeded in bipartisan meaningful legislation despite difficult politics

IRS resources to serve taxpayers, collect estimated $7.7T in unpaid taxes over 10 years

Scope for good policy with competent, dedicated civil service despite political dysfunction

Hope we're in process of implementing good policy for US despite some apparent dysfunction

Transcripts

I think we'll start off with the

economic data that came out this morning

third quarter GDP showing a robust

4.9% growth rate Pace in the third

quarter when you look at those figures

do you think we've likely avoided a

recession or do you think it's too good

to be true because inflation is still so

high well it's a good strong number and

it shows an economy that's doing very

well um let's remember it is just one

quarters number and I'm not expecting

growth at that pace to continue but we

do have good solid growth um you know

probably the year will come in close to

two and a half I wouldn't be surprised

if we see that we have solid job

creation a low unemployment rate um

increased engagement in the labor force

labor force participation is strong more

people want to work and um inflation's

coming down and you don't really see um

any sign of recession here I I have to

say I've been saying for a long time

that I believed there was a path to

bring inflation down in the context of a

strong labor market frankly it's only

it's about a year ago since I believe a

Bloomberg model predicted that by

October of 2023

now namely that you saw the odds of

recession at

100% I don't think we have that um you

know what we have looks like a soft

Landing with very good outcomes for the

US economy so I think there's a lot to

be uh pleased about and you you see good

strong consumer spending um consumers

still have substantial wealth it's up

substantially since the pandemic I I

think it's supporting good strong

spending and the econom is doing well

and I think um you know us growth is

making a contribution to Stronger Global

outcomes as well so you just pointed to

a number of things that are positive

about the US economy but we've done a

lot of reporting in recent months at

here at Bloomberg we sent reporters out

all across the country and what we're

hearing from people on the ground is

that when you ask them about their

personal finances they feel pretty good

for a lot of the reasons you just

mentioned and the labor market their

ability as consumers to spend but when

you ask them about the direction of the

US economy the sentiment is much more

downbeat so what can you do to close the

the gap on the positive side in terms of

how people feel about the US economy

especially as we head into an election

year so I think Americans have been

through a lot with the pandemic and a

lockdown for almost two years then a

period of high inflation

and um as you say they do seem to feel

good about their own personal

finances surveys of job satisfaction

suggest people feel good about their

work too we've rarely seen higher

numbers um on job satisfaction but they

seem very worried about the economy and

that things are not doing well um you

know the US economy has suffered from

structural problems from a very long

time for a very long time a significant

share of the population particularly

those who haven't had a college

education have really not seen

meaningful growth in their real income

and have seen a decline in job

opportunities over really approaching 50

years and I think what Americans need to

know is that the Biden Harris

Administration is really decisively

changing that we are investing in

America we have passed um three a

trifecta of

legislation that people will

increasingly see who've been um

suffering from a shortage of job

opportunities I think they're really

going to see things change first of all

we're spending an enormous amount to

repair America's infrastructure and

increasingly people are going to see um

their roads um that uh they get hung up

on every day it's hard to commute with

potholes everywhere that's going to be

fixed bridges are going to be improved

um airports people will are going to um

within the next several years um

virtually every American will have

access to good good inter internet so

improving digital economy and we've seen

an enormous um set of Investments

announced um in response largely to the

chips and semiconductors act um and to

the inflation reduction act in clean

energy and jobs are being created what

we what we see in this past year is that

a disproportionate um share of the jobs

that are being created are in

communities that have had less Economic

Opportunity um communities with below

average incomes and with a below average

share of people who have a college

education so this means that opportunity

will increasingly come to people who um

really haven't in a sense gotten a fair

Shake over the last 50 years as they've

seen jobs disappear and you know

President Biden and and um vice

president Harris and I really believe

that you ought to have access to a good

job even if you don't have a college

education and um increasingly I think

people will see that good opportunities

are being created um certainly the

president um is trying to go out and

explain to people what this longer term

medium term agenda he would say it's a

matter of uh growing the economy from

the bottom up and the middle out um what

we've had is too much of trying to grow

the economy through trickle down from

going with gains going to the top with a

hope that it'll trickle down and I think

we're beginning to see um the fruits of

these Investments begin beginning to pay

off so I think Americans have um a lot

to um look look forward to and are

beginning to see this uh in their daily

lives so we were just talking about

Americans perception of the economy but

another thing we follow closely here at

Bloomberg globally is investors

perception of the economy so I want to

ask you a little bit about the rise and

yields that we've seen we've seen yields

surging over the last few weeks the

10year treasury Rose above 5% earlier

this week what's your view on what is

driving that surgeon yields and how much

of it is connected to investors concerns

about the US deficit well I don't think

much of it is um connected to that this

is a global phenomenon in advanced

countries we're seeing yields go up um

in most advanced countries of the world

and largely I think it's a reflection of

the resilience that people are seeing in

the US economy that um we're not having

a recession that consumer spending and

demand continue to be strong the economy

um is continuing continuing to show

tremendous

robustness and that suggests that

interest rates are likely to stay higher

for longer and so part of the increase

in yields uh I think is simply a

reflection of the strength of the

economy the notion that interest rates

will be higher for longer now whether or

not that's really true if we look at

five or 10 years what are interest rates

likely to do honestly for a very long

time we have felt that um interest rates

over decades had been coming down real

interest rates and that there were deep

structural reasons for that in part

relating to demographics and those

underlying Trends they're still there

they're still in force so um I think

it's perfectly possible that we will

see longer term yields come down but

nobody really knows for sure but I I see

the higher yields as certainly

importantly a reflection of a stronger

economy so when you think about the

deficit you know I think one of your

preferred metrics for assessing you know

us fiscal stability is to look at the

net interest outlay is adjusted for

inflation um and right now I think said

that those levels seem good to you but

there are in real terms it's about 1% a

little bit under that so that's helpful

in terms of kind of the next figure I

was going to mention is several

economists out there are forecasting

that that figure by 2030 could be well

north of 2% so at that level would you

be alarmed in terms of the sustain

fiscal sustainability well let me just

say fiscal sustainability is really

critical and President Biden is

committed to putting forward a fiscal

plan that um shows fiscal

sustainability and uncertainty about

interest rates interest rates do

influence what the path of that real net

interest uh is going to be um there's a

bigger challenge if the interest rate

path stays higher um President Biden has

already supported deficit reduction

measures um in the P pack raising the

debt sealing um and other legislation in

the inflation reduction act there's uh a

trillion dollars of deficit reduction

and he proposed a budget that both

invests in um America continues to do

that and also has

um Revenue raising measures that um

would result in another $25 trillion uh

because of deficit reduction over the

next decade so yes we have to put

forward fiscal plans that will keep the

uh deficit manageable and keep this real

net interest cost um you know I would I

would say well below 2% so um the higher

the interest rate path um the more that

we need to do so I want to take a moment

secretary and turn to the global Outlook

um with the Israel Hamas War happening

in the Middle East I think there's a

concern by some that the war could

spread or expand to broader in the

region I know that that's not your base

case but if that was to happen could you

walk us through your risk scenario for

what that might mean to the global

economy so I I guess I have to say my

focus as I look now at what's happening

to the Middle East really is is the

tragedy the human tragedy that's taking

place what the Israelis have suffered

and of course we're worried about um

casualties in Gaza as Israel um you know

pursues its war against Hamas and so

it's really the human suffering that I

think should be our our focus and

countering uh

terrorism um we're monitoring The

Economic Consequences is

carefully um I so far I would say we've

not yet seen um much that has Global

consequences oil prices um are largely

flat um what could happen if the war

expands of course there could be more

meaningful consequences but I I think

it's premature to specul ulate against

about those and I think our focus should

be keeping this contained and not

spreading so on Hamas I know the

treasury Department has taken further

moves in the last few weeks to restrict

financing to Hamas and your under

secretary Brian Nelson is actually in

the Middle East right

now do you think there's room for

further restricting or limiting

financing to Hamas and if so can you

tell us what might be some of the next

steps so I can't comment on any

specifics concerning sanctions we have

not yet put in place but what I can say

is we have taken a large number of steps

just over the last year to put in place

sanctions to try to reduce the aen for

financing of Hamas and in the aftermath

of this attack act last week we put

additional sanctions in place um my

under secretary as you mentioned will be

in the Middle East and deputy secretary

Ado is leaving tonight for a trip to

Europe to also discuss working with our

allies on sanctions and we are certainly

looking at further um opportunities we

see to try to reduce this flow of

um financing to himas we're all over

this and um are likely to do more so one

final question on the Middle East before

we turn to other topics on Iran can you

help us understand um are the $6 billion

in Iranian oil proceed assets blocked by

the US Treasury from access by Iran

right now as they sit in a qari account

I guess all I can really tell you

is that not a penny of that money has

been touched um the Trump

Administration agreed to allow Iran to

sell oil and um the sales were largely

to Korea and the proceeds were held in a

Korean bank account and only permitted

to be used for humanitarian

purposes um without any direct funding

for going to Iran and those proceeds

were moved from Korea to uh to

qar um they still sit there they can

only be used for humanitarian purposes

they have not been used and I don't feel

comfortable saying more about diplomatic

um conversations that are taking place

but Iran has not touched those phones

well you just me mentioned diplomacy and

so much of your role as secretary has

been actually traveling around the world

we often think of the Treasury

Department is so domestic but so much of

what you've done is international and

you're seen as a liberal Economist

supportive of free trade I wondered your

thoughts on um How concerned are you

that some of the Biden policies may be

sealing a mistrust of globalization that

was ramped up in the Trump

Administration and whether that's

actually good for the US economy well I

think that's a great question um I've

talked about a concept I call

furing um so I think as a consequence

partly of the

pandemic and um partly Russia's invasion

of

Ukraine we've come to the

realization that our supply chains

America's Supply chains are not secure

and in some cases we're overly dependent

on countries like

China and that what we need to do is to

take steps as a country to reduce our

vulnerability and to diversify our

supply chains and to some extent that

involves reassuring things to the United

States and doing more here and certainly

in the area of clean energy the

inflation reduction act has incentives

to do more in the United States and the

desire there in part is to create good

jobs in um industries that are likely to

be drivers of future growth whether it's

semiconductors or clean energy but we

don't want to forgo Global the benefits

of

globalization and trade and so the idea

of French insuring is that we want to be

able to rely on a broader set of

countries to do trade and investment to

deepen our trade and investment

relationships with countries that we

feel are trustworthy that can be um

Reliable Parts of a global supply chain

that we take part in and part of what

I've been doing is traveling around the

world talking to countries about

developing our supply chain relations

and of course we're very close partners

with Europe with Canada Mexico uh other

countries with whom we have free trade

areas but many more countries we're

deepening our relationships with India

with Vietnam um so we want this to be

broad we understand that the

international division of labor with

countries taking advantage of the

benefits of comparative Advantage doing

what you're most um efficient at

relatively efficient at that this is a

great set of benefits both for the

United States and also countries that um

are given the opportunity to trade and

that contributes to their growth so we

don't want to forego that and um we do

want to maintain the benefits of

globalization but without the

vulnerability that comes from un due

Reliance on a few countries that may um

restrict trade for political or other

reasons so you mentioned broadening our

network of friends that we can have

Partnerships with but also China I know

you took a trip to China in B to Beijing

this summer you've been talking about

how our policy should really be around

drisking or diversifying rather than

decoupling but what do you think is the

current status of that do you think the

Chinese um have adopted that and feel

like they can trust us on that front or

do you think they still really think

that we're in a in a competition with

them first and foremost so I mean we've

articulated a strategy as you said it

involves drisking in some areas where

we're overly dependent on China and

clean energy is a a good

example

um we ALS so intend to focus on National

Security that's an area that we're not

willing to compromise on and so we have

we do have export controls we continue

to review them we have we're working on

a set of restrictions on outbound

investment to China we've discussed this

with them and put out a proposal that's

um in the public domain I think comments

just closed on it but our objective

there is to Target what we do as

narrowly as possible so that it really

focuses on National Security that it is

not an INT intention in that to harm the

prospects of Chinese Economic

Development and the welfare of the

Chinese people so we intend to have

healthy

competition and mutually beneficial

trade and investment with China in many

areas I've tried to make this clear and

then importantly the third prong of it

is we need to work together on on global

problems debt relief is one of those

problems climate change is another but

there are many examples so that's what

we're trying to do in terms of our

strategy you know President Biden and

president she met and Bali I guess it's

just over a year ago I was at that

meeting in more or less two over two

years almost no senior level contact had

taken place um during the pandemic

between China and the United States and

I think that was a dangerous situation

and especially when there are

disagreements it's actually important to

be able to discuss them to talk through

to see the other um country's point of

view and to discuss areas where you're

not in sync and it was recognized by

both sides that we needed to talk more

to um de deepen our discussions exchange

of

information and particularly in economic

areas macroeconomic performance

financial markets where our Behavior has

spillovers uh AC back and forth to one

another and also our decisions affect

the global Outlook as a whole and that's

what I tried to begin in my meetings

that I had in China and things have

continued very positively from there we

formed two working groups um they report

to me and my Chinese counterpart H

leang one concerns um economic matters

the other financial matters the working

groups met earlier this week both of

them met and and we now have a set of

very

constructive um and deepening

discussions about areas of mutual

concern and it's good to have um

contacts throughout our chain um it

levels below secretary uh staff level

discussions um and channels of

communication where when a problem

arises each side can pick up up the

phone and discuss it before it rises to

the level of a um real really serious

disagreement so I think this agenda is

working we certainly will continue to

deepen our uh economic relationship and

discussions and I'm feeling very good

about how things are going there turning

back to the US Secretary Yellen you've

described the Biden administration's

economic policies as um something you

referred to as modern supply side

economics and with those policies

they're aiming to increase the

productive capacity in the US that's

right that's a pretty good Big Goal so

can you talk to me a little bit about

how long do you think it's going to take

for some of those policies to become

entrenched enough that they stick and

have a real impact on people and the

reason I'm asking is because I'm looking

ahead to next year the elections coming

up what's at stake if the Democrats

don't retain the White House in terms of

the ability for some of those policies

to take hold so yes modern supply side

economics it's in part of growth

strategy and this is something um

Republicans and Democrats um I think

share a desire to see real wages and

incomes increase to see uh economic

welfare for the broad um set of

Americans to improve over time and an

economic growth or quote supply side

strategy this isn't a matter of demand

management it's a matter of improving

our economy's ability to produce goods

and surfaces over the medium to long

term we I think agree on that it's

widely accepted um with the Republican

strategy has been as I said largely a

trickle down strategy of giving tax

breaks or deregulation to the rich and

to corporations in the expectation or

hope that benefits would trickle down

more broadly I see that as a failed

strategy and um one that is really not

been successful at creating broad shared

prosperity and I see modern supply side

economics is having the same objective

but proceeding in a different way and

there many factors that are inputs into

growth uh besides private investment um

for too long we ignored infrastructure

so investing in America's infrastructure

has a return produces benefits

R&D um you know we're now really after

having uh decades in which us spending

on research and development certainly at

the federal level had fallen to very low

levels we were no longer one of the

leading countries in terms of um the

resources we devote to R&D that we've

stepped that up um substantially in the

legislation that's been passed and what

we want is also growth that's Equitable

so addressing inequality is are saying

for over 50 years essentially um the

median American really saw very little

growth little or no growth in their real

income we want to change that we want to

make sure that opportunities are created

especially for those who don't have a

college education and live in places you

know we've had so much growth on the

coasts but many parts of the country

geographies um that it seems progress is

passed by and so if if you look at the

legislation that's been passed

and the investment plans that have been

announced we've seen over $600 billion

in new Investments that have been

announced now it takes a while to get

those in place but look at where are

those Investments occurring they're

occurring in parts of the country that

have not seen that kind of investment

and um you know we're seeing electric

vehicle production and Battery

production in many part parts of the

country that have been sorely hurting

for good jobs and so it will take a

while for Americans to see the benefits

of this but um even now I think many

Americans can see that jobs good jobs

are being created um in manufacturing

which is um not done well over decades

in the United States so I I believe that

opportunities will be cre created and

people will be able to see that over

time in their daily lives no matter what

secretary you've been in public service

nearly five decades now holding

the it's a long time uh it's a lot of

working years as you as a labor

Economist um I I will say that you've

held the the top economic post you know

across the ca fed and now

treasury but you're also known as a

technocrat and a policy maker rather

than a political animal per se um when

you look at the divisiveness in

Washington we've just seen the past few

weeks even just on Capitol Hill are you

concerned that there's less and less

room for a person like you to come into

government in Washington and make a

notable difference at the highest levels

um if you're not as politically driven

as policy

driven um you know I I guess I see that

we have a government that is filled with

people who are

professional technically

proficient and dedicated to good policy

and we are trying to um put in place

good sound technically solid government

policy in almost everything we do and in

spite of the

difficult political environment that

we're in President Biden and vice

president Harris in the time they've

been in office have succeeded in a

bipartisan way in um having a great deal

of meaningful legislation passed um the

treasury Department I spend a good share

of my time working with um very capable

people in our tax policy Department

we're uh charged with writing all of the

rules that are governing uh the tax

incentives in the inflation reduction

act those that will are really creating

enormous opportunities in connection

with clean energy and we've gotten an

allocation of funds to um restore the

Internal Revenue Service to restore

their ability to both Serve American

customers who deserve to have somebody

answered the phone when you when you

call and um have been missing that for a

long time and also to actually collect

the taxes that um our tax code says

people ow and when you think about the

fact that over a tril over um 10 years

the tax Gap namely the quantity of tax

revenue that's due but not paid is

estimated at 77

trillion um you know we're in the

process of restoring all of that and the

people who are doing this are a largely

a civil service that is um tremendously

competent professional and dedicated to

um making the United States function

well so I think there's plenty of scope

um for good policy and I hope we're in

the process of doing it in spite of some

of the what seems like political

dysfunction in our country well

secretary Ellen thank you so much for

joining us today and giving us so much

of your time and sharing your insights

it's a true pleasure thank you so much

thanks for having

me thank you