How to never stop learning

Summary

In the 'In the Black' podcast, Jessica Mutt interviews Shelly Laslett and Hugh Thomas on continuous learning for accountants and finance professionals. They discuss the importance of lifelong learning for career growth, overcoming procrastination, and prioritizing learning amidst competing tasks. Laslett emphasizes the value of adaptive learning and metacognition, while Thomas advises on carving out time for learning and speaking to employers about professional development. Both stress the need for finance professionals to embrace change, develop strategic thinking, and enhance interpersonal skills to future-proof their careers.

Takeaways

• 🌟 Continuing learning is crucial for personal and professional growth, as it is linked to brain health and career progression.
• 🎓 Structured learning ends at university, but the need for continuous learning persists to stay relevant in a rapidly changing professional landscape.
• 🧠 Learning new, challenging skills is essential for brain health and adapting to the evolving demands of the modern workforce.
• 🛠️ The concept of an 'adaptive learner' involves customizing learning experiences to suit individual needs and the specific demands of tasks.
• 🤔 Metacognition, or thinking about one's thinking, is a key component of adaptive learning, helping to monitor and improve learning effectiveness.
• 🛑 Procrastination can be a form of 'positive procrastination' when it allows the brain time to ruminate and plan effectively before executing tasks.
• 📅 Effective time management involves prioritizing tasks and creating structure, which can help manage competing priorities and allocate time for learning.
• 🔑 Understanding and communicating the value proposition of learning to an employer is essential for gaining support and resources for professional development.
• 🔗 Collective prioritization with team members ensures alignment and shared understanding of what is important, which is crucial when working in a team setting.
• 🔑 The ability to influence, think strategically, and provide insights will become increasingly valuable as automation and AI impact the job market.
• 🌐 Building broader business acumen and management capabilities on top of a strong foundation in finance and accounting will future-proof one's career.

Q & A

Why is continuous learning important for accountants and finance professionals according to Shelly Laslett?

Continuous learning is important for accountants and finance professionals because learning is an essential part of growth. When we stop learning, we stop growing, both professionally and neurologically. Learning hard new things is particularly important as it contributes to brain health and progression in one's career.

What does Shelly Laslett mean by 'adaptive learner'?

An 'adaptive learner' is someone who can adjust their learning styles or needs based on the task at hand. It involves customizing learning experiences to address unique needs rather than adopting a one-size-fits-all approach to learning.

How does Shelly Laslett define metacognition in the context of learning?

Metacognition, in the context of learning, is the process of thinking about one's thinking. It involves being aware of the learning process, having beliefs about oneself as a learner, recognizing emotions and feelings related to learning, and employing strategies to monitor and track the effectiveness of one's learning.

What is the relationship between procrastination and learning according to the podcast?

The podcast suggests that procrastination can be seen as an emotional regulation problem rather than a time management issue. It can be a sign that the brain is trying to buy time to think creatively and innovatively about a task before executing it. Moderate procrastination can be beneficial as it allows for rumination and better planning.

How can finance professionals prioritize learning amidst competing priorities, as suggested by Shelly Laslett?

Finance professionals can prioritize learning by establishing a structure and order to their work, using systems like a traffic light system for task prioritization or sizing tasks. They should also plan their week in advance, align priorities with team members, and use collective communication to ensure everyone is on the same page.

What advice does Hugh Thomas give on carving out time for learning?

Hugh Thomas advises having a solid belief in oneself and clear goals for what one is trying to become, which can motivate one to find time for learning. He also suggests being assertive in saying no to short-term demands and focusing on long-term value.

What does Hugh Thomas mean by 'chunking up learning'?

Chunking up learning refers to breaking down a large, overwhelming topic into smaller, more digestible pieces of learning. This technique makes the learning process less daunting and more manageable.

How can finance and accounting professionals speak to their employers about Learning and Development effectively?

Finance and accounting professionals should be clear about the value proposition of the learning they wish to undertake, explaining how it will benefit both themselves and the company. They should also consider starting with informal learning that doesn't require managerial approval.

What is the importance of understanding the changing nature of work due to technology, AI, and automation, as mentioned by Hugh Thomas?

Understanding the changing nature of work is crucial because it helps professionals identify the skills that are less likely to become redundant. It encourages them to focus on areas where technology cannot easily replace human interaction, such as strategic thinking, relationship building, and being a thought leader.

What is the website 'will robots take my job.com' and how can it be used by finance and accounting professionals?

The website 'will robots take my job.com' provides an estimation of the risk that a particular job might be automated in the future. Finance and accounting professionals can use it to understand the potential threats to their current roles and adapt their learning and skills development accordingly.

What is the bonus advice Hugh Thomas gives to finance and accounting professionals for future-proofing their careers?

Hugh Thomas advises finance and accounting professionals to focus on building broader business acumen and general management capabilities. He emphasizes the importance of developing skills around people interaction, leadership, and influence, as these are areas where technology is less likely to replace human expertise.

Outlines

00:00

📘 The Importance of Lifelong Learning for Professionals

In the 'In the Black' podcast, Jessica introduces Shelly Laslett, an expert in brain-based coaching and guest lecturer at the University of Technology Sydney. Shelly emphasizes the significance of continuous learning beyond formal education, as it is crucial for personal and professional growth. She explains that learning is not just about acquiring new information but about challenging ourselves with difficult tasks that push our current capabilities. This approach is vital for staying relevant in a rapidly evolving industry and for maintaining brain health. Shelly also discusses the concept of being an 'adaptive learner,' which involves customizing learning experiences to suit individual needs and leveraging metacognition to enhance the learning process.

05:02

🛠 Metacognition and Overcoming Procrastination

This paragraph delves into the concept of metacognition, which involves thinking about one's own thinking and is essential for adaptive learning. It breaks down into three levels: metacognitive knowledge, experience, and strategies. The speaker discusses the importance of recognizing one's emotions towards learning and using metacognitive strategies to monitor and track learning effectiveness. Procrastination is also addressed, with the speaker suggesting that it can be a form of emotional regulation, giving the brain time to ruminate and plan before executing tasks. The advice includes setting boundaries for 'positive procrastination' and using the time to reflect on the task at hand and one's emotional state.

10:03

🗓 Prioritizing Learning Amidst Competing Demands

Shelly provides strategies for finance professionals to prioritize learning despite heavy workloads. She suggests establishing a structured system for prioritizing tasks using a traffic light system or a grading system. The importance of aligning individual priorities with those of the team is highlighted, emphasizing the need for collective communication and understanding. Regular check-ins and standup meetings are recommended to ensure alignment and avoid mismanagement of tasks and deadlines.

15:05

🎓 Preparing for the Future in Finance and Accounting

The conversation concludes with advice for finance and accounting professionals on preparing for the future. The guest speaker encourages professionals to leverage their deep understanding of financial literacy to empower others and emphasizes the value of this knowledge in helping individuals and businesses succeed. The focus is on using one's expertise to educate and assist others in understanding financial matters, which is seen as a powerful tool for personal and professional development.

20:05

⏰ Time Management and Learning Strategies

Hugh Thomas, head of offerings at Blue seed Consulting, shares practical tips on finding time to learn despite a busy schedule. He stresses the importance of having a clear sense of purpose and goals, being assertive in saying no to urgent but less important tasks, and being disciplined in making time for learning. Hugh also discusses the common trap of viewing time as a limited resource rather than a set of priorities. He advises focusing on what is valuable in the long term and using calendars and planning tools to manage time effectively.

25:07

🧠 Chunking Learning and Communicating with Employers

The concept of 'chunking' is introduced as a technique to make learning more manageable by breaking it down into smaller, more digestible pieces. Hugh shares his personal experience with applying chunking in his career, emphasizing the importance of identifying patterns and building on existing knowledge. Additionally, he provides guidance on how to approach employers about learning opportunities, suggesting that employees clearly communicate the value proposition of the learning to their managers and the company.

🤖 The Impact of Technology on Future Jobs and Learning

In this final paragraph, the discussion turns to the impact of technology, AI, and automation on the future of jobs, particularly in accounting. Hugh warns that roles that are highly technical and require little human interaction are at risk of becoming redundant. He advises finance and accounting professionals to focus on developing skills that technology cannot easily replicate, such as strategic thinking, insight provision, relationship building, and creative trend analysis. The emphasis is on becoming a trusted advisor with strong leadership and influence capabilities.

Keywords

💡Continuous Learning

Continuous learning refers to the ongoing process of acquiring new knowledge, skills, and understanding throughout one's life. It is essential for personal and professional growth, as emphasized by Shelly Laslett in the podcast, who argues that learning is an integral part of growth and neurological health. The concept is tied to the idea that once formal education ends, the learning journey should not, as it is vital for adapting to the ever-changing professional landscape.

💡Adaptive Learner

An adaptive learner is an individual who can modify their learning approaches based on the task at hand, as explained by Shelly Laslett. This concept is significant in the podcast as it highlights the importance of being flexible and responsive to different learning needs. It involves metacognition, which is the ability to think about one's own thinking, and is crucial for tailoring learning experiences to individual needs.

💡Metacognition

Metacognition is the process of thinking about and understanding one's own thought processes. In the context of the podcast, metacognition is presented as a key component of adaptive learning. It involves being aware of one's learning process, emotions related to learning, and strategies used to monitor and assess learning effectiveness. The term is used to illustrate the importance of self-reflection and self-regulation in the learning process.

💡Neuroscience

Neuroscience is the scientific study of the nervous system and the brain. Shelly Laslett mentions it in relation to brain-based coaching, indicating that understanding how the brain learns is crucial for effective learning strategies. The concept is used to underpin the importance of learning for brain health and the role of neuroscience in coaching and professional development.

💡Professional Qualification

A professional qualification refers to a recognized credential or certification that certifies an individual's competence in a particular field or profession. In the podcast, the term is used to illustrate the importance of upskilling and acquiring new qualifications to stay relevant in a changing industry, as discussed by Shelly Laslett.

💡Procrastination

Procrastination is the act of delaying or postponing tasks or actions. In the podcast, Hugh Thomas discusses the concept of 'positive procrastination,' which is a moderate form of delaying tasks to allow for deeper reflection and better planning. This perspective challenges the traditional view of procrastination as purely negative and suggests that it can be a tool for more effective task management.

💡Time Management

Time management is the process of planning and controlling how much time is spent on specific activities to increase efficiency and productivity. The podcast emphasizes the importance of effective time management for carving out time to learn amidst competing priorities. It suggests that successful individuals are adept at prioritizing tasks and making time for learning, which is crucial for professional development.

💡Prioritization

Prioritization is the act of determining the order in which tasks should be performed based on their importance and urgency. In the context of the podcast, prioritization is discussed as a critical skill for managing competing demands and making time for learning. It involves creating a structured approach to task management, which can help individuals focus on what is most important for their career progression.

💡Chunking

Chunking is a learning technique where information is broken down into smaller, more manageable pieces to facilitate better understanding and retention. Hugh Thomas mentions this concept as a strategy for mastering new skills or subjects by making them less overwhelming. It involves identifying patterns and building on existing knowledge to incrementally learn new concepts.

💡Value Proposition

A value proposition is a promise of value to be delivered through a product, service, or initiative. In the podcast, the term is used in the context of discussing how individuals should communicate the benefits of learning and development opportunities to their employers. It involves clearly articulating how the learning will benefit both the individual and the organization, which can help secure support for learning initiatives.

💡Learning Organization

A learning organization is a group that facilitates the learning of all its members and continuously transforms itself. The podcast highlights the importance of being part of a learning organization, where constant evolution and adaptation are encouraged. It suggests that organizations that do not embrace learning are at risk of becoming obsolete in a rapidly changing business environment.

Highlights

The importance of continuous learning beyond university for professional and neurological growth.

Learning new, challenging skills is crucial for brain health and career progression.

Adapting to industry changes requires ongoing learning to stay relevant.

The concept of being an 'adaptive learner' involves customizing learning experiences to individual needs.

Metacognition plays a key role in adaptive learning by enhancing self-awareness and learning strategies.

Procrastination can be a form of positive reflection, allowing the brain time to ruminate on tasks.

Time management is more about emotional regulation than just ticking off tasks.

Creating structure and order helps in prioritizing tasks amidst competing priorities.

The value of collective prioritization and communication in a team setting.

Practical advice on carving out time for learning despite a busy schedule.

The benefits of chunking learning into digestible pieces for better retention and application.

Speaking to employers about Learning and Development should focus on the value proposition.

The future of finance and accounting jobs in the context of automation and AI.

Developing broader business acumen and people skills to complement technical accounting knowledge.

The necessity for organizations to foster a culture of continuous learning to stay competitive.

Emphasizing the importance of relationship building and strategic thinking in the finance and accounting profession.

Encouraging finance and accounting professionals to become thought leaders and influencers.

Transcripts

this is in the black a leadership

strategy and business podcast brought to

you by CPA

[Music]

Australia hello and welcome to in the

black career hacks podcast I am Jessica

mut to help us understand how

accountants and finance professionals

can overcome Common Road to learning I'm

speaking to Shelly laslett Shel is the

CEO and co-founder of V coach which uses

brain-based coaching based on

Neuroscience she's also a guest lecturer

at the University of Technology Sydney

and the director of people and culture

at ux research platform usability Hub

welcome Shelly it's great to have you

here thanks Jess it's great to be here I

think that many of us draw a line in the

sand when we finish University thinking

that the learning is done and it's now

time to start earning why do you think

it's important for us to continue

learning throughout our careers yeah

it's a really good question I think also

learning up until that point is super

structured so part of the reason we sort

of feel that it ends is because the

structure Falls away so to answer your

question about why it's important it's

because really learning is essential

part of growth it's it's sort of when we

stop learning we stop growing and that

happens not just on a professional level

but it happens on a neurological level

too learning is particularly important

to brain health and it's also important

to progression overall but there's sort

of a little bit of lower level detail

around that and it's not learning just

general things it's actually learning

hard new things is incredibly important

so stuff that is beyond reach currently

within our current

capability but things that we desire and

Tain so professional qualification um an

upskilling in a certain type of coding

or language that we wanted to a learning

of a new language learning of a new

skill and whether that's physical or

musical all of these types of things are

actually super super important to us but

when we think about our career

trajectory what we know is that careers

are anything but stagnant in the Modern

Age so we've seen a lot of change even

in the last 10 years in terms of skill

set capability you know the work we do

at usability HUB is an example of that

what we used to think with sort of

nuance then perhaps Niche now becomes

the norm and it's really important when

we think about our own progress in

careers so our own learning is that we

have to be going to where our industry

is and what I mean by that is what's

coming for our industry what's on the

horizon and how am I using my skills

that I either have today or skills that

I'm going to attain to stay relevant to

my industry or relevant to my clients

because we know in terms of tech and the

way that it changes things we can't

simply rest on The Laurels of what we

want new we have to continue growing and

learning and I think one of the best

guiding principles we can we can take in

that is what are you excited by so when

you think of your industry when you

think of where you are when you think of

where it's going what bits of that get

you excited what draws you in to start

to think about how you would essentially

play in those areas if you could but to

give up on kind of learning is to give

up on progress and to give up on

progress is to give up on progression

and that's kind of a you know

professional suicide position really we

really want to think about how do we

continue to grow ourselves and thereby

be part of the growth within our

industry wow okay so that's a really

powerful reason to continue learning

shell the term adaptive learner is one

that I must confess I haven't heard much

about um could you kind of break down

what an Adaptive learner is and share

your tips for cultivating that kind of a

mindset yeah sure so I think when we

talk about adaptive learner it's kind of

in the title right so the ability to DAP

down learning styles or our learning

needs based on the task that's in front

of us and what does that really mean

without sounding to academic it's what's

ahead of us and what do I need to do

with what I have today to adapt to get

to the outcome I'm after so I think

adaptive learning in general is more

about that custom learning experiences

experience as such so how does it

address the unique need that you have

versus a blanket all approach to

learning so often what you see in

classrooms or in universities a blanket

all approaches to learning an Adaptive

learning style and this like caveat has

been integrated into Tech in a number of

ways of Designing excuse me adaptability

and algorithmic adaptability it's

looking at the nuance and the uniqueness

of what you need to do as a learner and

how you need to adapt either yourself or

the modification of what you're learning

to suit your needs so what that really

means if we break it down is how do we

adapt to what I need to do next to get

the outcome I want and this stuff Tails

really quite cleanly into a process of

of thinking and that's called

metacognition so effectively thinking

about our thinking it's a neurological

process that we humans do um and it has

a lot of B benefit uh when it comes to

learning so metacognition kind of breaks

down into three levels it's like

metacognitive metacognitive knowledge

like my awareness of the learning

process the beliefs I have about myself

as a learner and others my metacognitive

experience emotions and feelings related

to learning some of us love learning and

can't wait for the challenge some of us

are more resistant that's okay it's just

part of it and our metacognitive

strategies and this is a bit that

relates to that adaptivity about

learning so what are the what do you

design and processes do you use to

monitor how you're learning and track

your Effectiveness in terms of

ascertaining that knowledge and that's

probably the most important part it's

awareness of where I am as a Learner in

the process of either my Mastery or my

misunderstanding of what I'm trying to

do so metacognition is something you we

have you don't need to go away and buy

it you don't need to upload it you don't

need to do a course it's simply

something you have it's a muscle and so

we should use it so when it comes to

Adaptive learning the things I would say

sort ofic

metacognitive knowledge what do you

already believe about yourself as a

learner CU it's likely you might have

some false beliefs and we hear people

talk about this I'm not very good at

math I'm not very good at exams I'm

better at this I'm better at that you

might know your natural preferences if

you're being self-directed in your

learning you're not on a course you're

not being told how to do it use that to

your advantage adapt that to how you

would like to be learning the

metacognitive experience is notice the

emotions that come with it do you get a

little bit of anxiety when it comes to

learning do you get excitement know that

anxiety and excitement are actually kind

of the same neurological cocktail is how

you characterize the emotion which in

influences whether or not it's positive

or negative but that medactive

strategies be is super important so what

are you going to do to have

checkpoints or reflection points with

yourself to know actually did I

understand that so often we might okay

I've got to move through modules 3 to

four I'm going to go through 3.1 3.2

okay tick tick tick tick tick but we

don't go back and reflect actually did I

understand that I might have ticked the

box but did I actually understand this

so going and doing that practice quiz or

going and you know working with a

partner or someone to say hey ask me a

question about this and then seeing if

you can articulate it you this is why

those practical practice exams if we're

looking at professional qualifications

are super important because what you're

doing is putting that learning into

practice if you simply attain knowledge

without any practical application you're

not really learning okay that's a really

great insight into how our brains work

can we turn now to the common obstacles

and roadblocks to learning that many of

us face such as procrastination I'd love

to hear your tips for overcoming it and

to learn what's actually happening in

the brain while we're procrastinating

yeah great question so um I think it's

important to understand there's actually

a power in procrastination I think most

fol think of it like negative yeah I

know know everyone's going great I can

watch Netflix for hours as positive

procrastination

what we mean by that is it's generally

referred to as moderate procrastination

and it's something that our

organizational psychologist Adam Grant

kind of caused a sweet spot and what we

mean there is it's where we think kind

of about what we're trying to do in a

more wiser and effective way and what

that looks like is effective

procrastination so this moderate type of

procrastination is essentially buying

yourself time to think and it becomes

rumination time for the brain meaning

that sit back and reflect actually what

is the task here how am I going to do it

why am I potentially resistant to

starting this you know when we're

thinking I've got to do that thing but

I'm not sure why I'm not executing

immediately but what we really mean by

that is procrastination isn't so much a

time management problem think of it as

an emotional regulation problem and what

do I mean by that basically your brain

is trying to give you time and space to

think creatively and innovative about

the solution before driving into

execution when we talk about the power

of procrastination and sometimes our

brains unwillingness to execute

immediately it's actually for us to

potentially understand some of those

emotions underneath but also to regulate

ourselves more effectively to feel

comfortable to start the task so that

when we start we can focus and be

effective versus we just focused on

executing and I didn't really think this

through and now I'm halfway through

writing this assignment or I'm halfway

through executing on this model and I

realize I don't actually have what I

need

so sometimes it's about sitting back and

knowing that there is a bit of that

power in delaying the task just to give

yourself a moment but also to be quite

kind to yourself if you do delay the

task you're not being lazy or in

effective and I can't probably describe

it any more than it's an urge like you

go to execute and you don't that would

be an essence of your brain saying hang

on tick let's just think this one

through a little bit more let's buy

ourselves a bit of space so my advice

when you feel that urge is to stop and

reflect okay why am I why am I resisting

here what do I need to know more of have

I got everything covered that I need

before I go and execute what am I

missing these questions what am I

missing what's the outcome what am I

trying to achieve here if I execute in

this way will it achieve those

objectives stop reflect actually it's

probably not right what's missing some

of that work is equally as effective as

output now we can't procrastinate till

you know the cows come home you do have

to put a bit of a time box on it so what

I would say there is just set yourself

some guidelines meaning okay I'm going

to give myself this amount of hours or

this many days or this many weeks

depending on the size of the project or

the thing you're trying to execute and

that's going to be my positive

procrastination time and I'm going to

use the power of procrastination here to

my favor what I'm going to do is then

reframe how I'm thinking about the

project I'm going to break it down into

short Sprints and then I'm going to

focus that's just the first step I need

to take I'm going to stop and reflect

I'm going to have sub goals which are

going to keep me orientated on time

meaning don't think about the whole

project being completed thinking about

what you need to do in this moment be in

the now and then also to help you

regulate the emotions that come with

procrastination because often there's a

lot of guilt and that guilt you know you

go out and do something you're like oh I

should really be doing that thing you

kind of need to tell yourself put it

down time and space away from that thing

is actually going to allow me to

approach it in a better way okay Shelly

um I'd also love to hear your advice on

how to all the competing priorities we

face with little spare time and how do

we know what value to ascribe to

learning as opposed to performing well

at work and I think this is really true

for finance professionals who have a

huge load of tasks to complete not much

time how do you resolve that tension

yeah so effectively how do you

prioritize when everything's a priority

yeah very much yeah so first principles

is you know our brain loves structure in

order We crave structure and Order we're

kind of like patent recognitions

machines so when we don't have any

structure and order to the way we work

everything goes out the window so first

principles right have some structure and

order to how you prioritize work so do

you have a simple traffic light system

high medium low do you have a grading

system in software delivery we often use

sizing of tasks so is it small meding or

large if it was a T-shirt size what

actually is the thing you need to do

because you might have five really short

little tasks that you think that just

take me 5 minutes classic saying it

doesn't it actually takes like 5 hours

so the first thing is to have a way in

which you're going to structure and

prioritize your work whatever that looks

like to you again leverage the software

you have doesn't have to be fancy you

can be as simple as what's blocked out

in my Google Calendar what's blocked out

in my Outlook is what's getting done at

the time and then almost like your

prioritization or assessment Matrix what

am I going to use to actually figure out

what is the most pressing what is the

most pressing priority and this is hard

because it's often like make the plan

regulate the plan or get the work done

and there is no simple solution to that

I can't say here's a magic one for how

you solve that but what I will say is

the more rhythmic you get with using a

system to prioritize the more easy it

becomes and the more your mind will

relax into it so try as much as you can

to follow a process in which you will

bring structure and order to

prioritizing it doesn't have to be

complicated again red and the green we

most of us know what that means follow

that and put it down somewhere outside

of your head or heat super low Fidelity

chick boxes on a page this is the most

important thing this is what's happening

tomorrow one of the big things as well

with that is plan out your week don't

try and plan out your month it doesn't

really work that way but plan out your

week like when am I actually going to do

these key things that I need to get

delivered when am I structuring in my

breaks because then your workout

actually is that going to take me 5

minutes or is it going to take me an

hour and a half in which case I should

probably do that um some people like to

use the timer effect so they actually

stop a timer and they work out how long

it takes I know that's pretty popular

with some of the accounting mates that I

do have works for some people not for

all just find your own system to bring

structure and order into how you

prioritize and then your own rituals

around prioritization the other piece I

would say is if you're working with

other people collectively prioritize

what I mean by that is what you think

might be a priority might not be a

priority to someone else so make sure

there's alignment make sure there's like

whips or standups team ceremonies where

you know you're going to have those

check-in points to make sure that your

prioritization is aligned with theirs

working in isolation to sort of divide

and conquer is fantastic when you're

working in a team you also need those

connectivity points so you can have your

own individual way of organizing your

thoughts and prioritizing but if you're

working collectively make sure that

that's shared and there's an

understanding there because we've all

been on a project where we think

someone's doing something or we think

we're doing that and then we've either

doubled up or we're not sure or the

deadline got mismanaged it it happens so

those regular checkings are super

important structure and Order around

your own prioritization Matrix and then

that Collective communication if you're

working with others that's amazing

terrific okay um shell I've got a Bonus

question for you now

fantastic if you could give one piece of

advice on what a finance and accounting

professional could do now to prepare for

the future what would that be oh great

question so I think you know having a

deep understanding of accounting

practices and financial literacy overall

that folks in this area possess is

hugely

powerful and I mean that in a sense that

knowledge is power but only when you use

it to empower another so really know and

trust that the skills that you have

present you with a great opportunity to

help other people understand their

finances balance sheets and thereby the

basics and the complexity

of how individuals and businesses can

succeed and that's hugely valuable that

was amazing there's so many practical

things that we can do to keep

learning thanks Shell no problems

anytime want to talk learning you know

where find us thank you for having

me we hope you're enjoying in the blacks

career hacks series if you're interested

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opinions now back to in the

black to help us understand how

accountants and finance professionals

can adopt efficient learning habits I'm

speaking to Hugh Thomas Hugh is head of

offerings thought leadership and

capability development at Blue seed

Consulting welcome Hugh it's great to

have you here thanks Jess great to be

here time is often described as our most

precious resource and we all seem to be

short on it can you please share some

practical tips on carving out time to

learn can we steal small chunks of time

here and there rather than striving to

find those elusive 1 hour blocks yeah

great question I think a lot of people

struggle with this one for me I think

the the first thing is sort of having a

a solid belief around uh learning

yourself

and a belief around what your goals are

and what you're trying to become and

when you've got that as the starting

point it gives you a strong motivation

to go and find the time if you don't

have that then you'll easily get

distracted by just the Urgent uh stuff

which is coming at you dayto day so I

think having that sense of purpose and

goals about where you're going is really

important I think having a bit being

pretty assertive to say no to some of

those shortterm things is really a

challenge for some people and is

something that they may need to work on

so pushing back on those urgent things

cuz that to-do list is never going to

end and we often won't find the time to

learn unless we say no to things pretty

firmly and I think the other is to try

and think about what that learning is

and like you say it doesn't have to be

sort of formal learning it can be you

know ongoing mentoring or could be just

trying something new and taking the

plunge into that and making or making

some reflective time to think about what

you did and and how you might learn from

that and then think about what that

topic is and just adopting a of

immersion in it so whether it's

listening reading the latest books on

that or podcasts and going to some

formal training or getting a mentor in

that thing and just surrounding yourself

in it for a period of time and making

some structured time to do that I think

that goes a long way to helping now we

only all get 24 hours in the day but

some people seem to do so much more in

theirs what's your advice on improving

time management skills and what do you

think are the most common traps that

people fall

into I think the most common trap Jess

is seeing time as this sort of limited

resource rather than what it really is

is just a set of priorities that you

make um each day and that you actually

have a lot of control over those and as

I sort of touched on before we get

locked into doing the Urgent stuff

rather than thinking about what's

important I think the most successful

High performers that I work with and a

lot of my clients who are CEOs and you

know have huge demands on them um are

really good at saying not a lot of small

things and those urgent things and

delegating but they just make time to

look ahead so they're looking at a three

year sort of horizon often or more or

one year or even a quarter and they're

breaking it down into those pieces

around okay if we need to achieve

something in that time or get better and

improve some capability in that time we

need to do these important things right

now or this week and they're really

disciplined about making the time for it

so think about what's not just urgent

and getting through that to-do list and

getting the dopamine hit out of through

that to-do list but actually thinking

about what's going to be most valuable

to me my career and the business I'm

working in in the long term and then

just being really assertive about making

the time to do it um I think the other

thing then is you know I or at least I

try is just to sort of obsess over my

calendar and really look at it regularly

and I try and plan sort of over a year a

quarter and then in a fortnightly basis

and then I'm looking at my calendar

virtually every day planning meetings

planning time I've got my personal

appointments and you know kids pickups

and things I've got to attend to there

and even weekend activities it's all in

there in one place and I just make sure

that I'm trying to follow that really

clearly and just move the boxes around

as needed and that's the kind of

practical thing I really obsess over now

let's talk about chunking chunking up

learning which is a term that I wasn't

familiar with can you tell us exactly

what it is and what are your tips for

mastering

it yeah it's it's an interesting concept

and this is the thing of you know the

reason why we break our phone numbers

down into those sort of three sets to

make them more memorable so I think we

we often shy away from learning

something new and a different discipline

because it seems overwhelming it seems

like a really big thing like my degree

is not in that thing I didn't study for

three years in that thing and it's going

to be really difficult to go and do that

thing but when we chunk it down into

small pieces it actually becomes much

more digestible into digestible pieces

of learning in in my experience I kind

of started my career as a a learning

strategist and designer in L&D then into

management and I moved into sort of

leadership coaching and training and

then i' I've I do a lot of sales and

business development and there sort of

different things but the thing the

chunking element that I used there was

sort of trying to see patterns in all

throughout all of them so there are

fundamentals throughout all of them

which is really just influencing people

and so that's the chunking technique

which is seeing that kind of pattern

from one thing to another and so what I

asked myself each time I was trying to

move into a different discipline was

what do I already know that's going to

be useful in this thing and then break

it down into those small pieces and how

can I apply what I already know and then

just sort of build on that adjacent

learning skill so it might be about

influencing people but it's within a

different process so I need to just

learn a specific process of selling

which is different to maybe change

management or designing some training

but the fundamental steps around you

know how I influence people is going to

be quite similar so I think that's one

thing one example of how I've used it

turning into digestible pieces just like

we break those phone numbers into

smaller sets to make them memorable and

then try to learn just one thing at a

time and not overwhelming yourself and I

think over time it's amazing what you

can learn in even the space of a year

just with those sort of small steps even

if there's a few little failures along

the way which you shouldn't shy away

from but if you just try those small

things learn from it and then learn the

next part of that big thing you're

you're trying to work on okay um Hugh

how should a person speak to their

employer about Learning and Development

and are there is there anything that

they shouldn't say I'd also be

interested to hear your thoughts on how

to frame the conversation to maximize

the chances of receiving a positive

response yeah a good one I think many

people and many employers as well sort

of see learning is a sort of a special

career perk or a distraction from your

actual work um so they're afraid to sort

of ask for funding or time off for

learning formal learning or perhaps

their boss has that sort of shortsighted

view of learning and is worried they're

going to learn something you and then

leave or they're going to lose their

good employees and I think that's it's

not a great View and I think a smart

boss is going to see someone who is

investing in themselves I certainly do

with my people when they want to invest

and learn I see it as a fantastic

opportunity they're going to improve

their performance it's going to make my

job easier and I might want to give them

my job and me so I can move on to

something greater in the future um but

if there's no one stepping up it makes

harder for me to grow and focus on

bigger things as well and so I I

encourage all leaders to see it that way

with their own people but as an employee

asking for that time off or that

investment I think be clear about what

the value proposition is and this

actually helps you and your employer

understand it I think we think about a

particular learning program you're

interested in you it for you to ask the

question or why why should I do that and

why am I interested in that and how

might I bring the value of that to my to

my team and to my company as well so I

think knowing that yourself actually

helps you go and capture the benefits

and turn the learning experience into

value for yourself but also for your

team and so if you sort of have that

value proposition clear in your in what

you say to your your manager when you're

asking for some funding or for a time

off or whatever it is you're really

clear about that value and and the why

behind it and the other thing I'd say as

well is you don't need your manager

approval for most types of learning you

might need it for the time off or for

for money in formal learning but you can

start learning straight away I've done

online courses in in my evenings and you

know I read books constantly and all

that sort of informal learning which you

don't really need your manager's

approval for so I'd encourage people to

not use that as a as a barrier the

changing nature of work with technology

and Ai and Automation and things like

that making rols redundant and our kids

are going to have very different jobs

probably many of which aren't invented

at the moment so if your organization

isn't a learning organization and is

isn't constantly evolving then it's at

risk um and there are going to be

competitors who will be learning

organizations who are going to adapt

more quickly who are going to work out

ways to save costs and to beat you in

the market with that or to bring new

offerings out and changing the way that

they they go to market and things like

that so it's it's going to change

significantly so if you're not trying to

become a learning organization if your

team isn't investing and learning and

your people aren't you know it's a risk

for your people 100

M sure okay okay F this is a bonus

question for you if you had one piece of

advice on what a finance and accounting

professional could do now to prepare for

the future what would that be yeah look

I I came across a website recently

called will robots take my job.com and

if if you go to that website and you

type in various accounting jobs into

that um you'll it tells you or any job

into it it'll tell you um the percentage

kind of risk that that job won't exist

in the future or a robot's going to take

it and many accounting jobs I think are

at risk when you go to that website or

just when you think about it logically

and you understand the technology and

any job that has maybe it's quite

Technical and it doesn't require a lot

of human interaction they're the kinds

of jobs which are going to be at risk so

some in the accounting profession are

certainly like that so I think where

Finance and Accounting professionals

should be focusing is on that people

interaction and on that more the types

of things which technology can't um make

redundant like your ability to think

strategically and to be insightful and

bring lots of insights to your clients

and to know different aspects of

accounting you know robots are pretty

good at doing one thing but not many

things if you can kind of pull it all

together and to deliver great insights

for your clients to become a trusted

advisor be great at relationship

building to be a thought leader and be a

bit creative about what the trends are

in accounting and so you can bring those

types of insights and be an influence

and I think just building that broader

business Acumen and general management

capabilities across other disciplines I

think Finance and Accounting are just

such a valuable kind of foundational

skill set absolutely and it'll probably

be that way for some time but what's

going to really make you valuable in

future is these broader skills and how

you sort of top that up and and and

bring other things on top of that

particularly around you know your people

interactions

and Leadership and influence and that

type of thing that's where I'd be

focusing on thanks you just to summarize

some of the points that you made was

first of all protect your time say no to

time thieves and the successful CEOs

that you have worked with are very good

at doing that and you say time is a set

of priorities each day so we have to

make the right choices each day I really

liked that and then if you're talking to

your manager and it's something that you

do need permission for you need to

really think about the value proposition

for them so that you can maximize your

chances of getting the green

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