30 Minutes of This Feels Like 8 Hours of Sleep - Andrew Huberman

Summary

The transcript discusses the concept of non-sleep deep rest (NSDR), a practice derived from Yoga Nidra, to rejuvenate the mind and body without actual sleep. It describes the benefits of this ancient technique for replenishing dopamine levels, improving cognitive performance, and potentially aiding in the rewiring of neural circuits during trauma therapy. The speaker shares personal experiences and scientific insights, including a collaboration with Dr. Matthew Walker to explore NSDR's neural effects, emphasizing its potential as a powerful tool for mental and physical restoration.

Takeaways

• 😴 The speaker discusses 'non-sleep deep rest' (NSDR) as a method to combat the effects of sleep deprivation and replenish dopamine levels in the brain.
• 🧘 Yoga Nidra, a thousand-year-old practice, is introduced as the inspiration for NSDR, involving lying down and attempting to stay awake while remaining completely still.
• 💡 The speaker's interest in NSDR was piqued after experiencing its restorative effects during a visit to a trauma treatment center in Florida.
• 🧠 A study from a Danish medical hospital showed that Yoga Nidra could increase dopamine levels in the brain's striatum by 60%, suggesting a potential for cognitive enhancement.
• 🛌 NSDR is differentiated from meditation and hypnosis, focusing on relaxation and sensory awareness rather than concentration or problem-solving.
• 🕒 The speaker suggests that a 10 to 30-minute session of NSDR can significantly reduce sympathetic autonomic arousal and provide mental and physical rejuvenation.
• 🎧 The speaker mentions the availability of NSDR and Yoga Nidra scripts on platforms like YouTube and Spotify for those interested in trying the practice.
• 🧐 The speaker speculates on the potential benefits of NSDR for creativity and learning, drawing parallels with the 'body still, mind active' state observed in REM sleep.
• 🤔 There is ongoing research and collaboration with Dr. Matthew Walker to understand the neural effects of NSDR and its potential to replace or enhance the benefits of sleep.
• 🛋️ NSDR is positioned as a safe, cost-free practice that can be done at any time of the day or night to help with sleep challenges or simply as a relaxation technique.
• 🌐 The speaker emphasizes the importance of exploring protocols like NSDR for mental and physical vigor, especially given the significant role of sleep and dopamine in cognitive function.

Q & A

What is the concept of non-sleep deep rest (NSDR)?

Non-sleep deep rest (NSDR) is a relaxation technique derived from Yoga Nidra, where one lies down and remains still while trying to stay awake. It involves long exhale breathing to slow the heart rate and a body scan to focus on different body parts, potentially leading to a state of rest that is mentally and physically rejuvenating without actual sleep.

How does NSDR differ from traditional meditation?

Traditional meditation is a focusing exercise that often involves directing attention to a specific point, such as the breath or a mantra. NSDR, on the other hand, is more about being in a sensory state, focusing on physical sensations without directing thoughts to the past or future, and it does not involve the same level of mental focus.

What is the potential benefit of NSDR for replenishing dopamine levels?

A study from a medical hospital in Denmark showed that after an hour of Yoga Nidra, participants experienced a 60% increase in dopamine levels in the striatum, a key brain area involved in movement, reward, and motivation. NSDR, being similar, may offer a way to replenish dopamine without actual sleep.

How can NSDR be used to improve cognitive performance?

Some studies have shown that after practicing Yoga Nidra, performance on memory tasks and other cognitive tasks improved. NSDR, as a similar protocol, may help enhance cognitive performance by providing a state of deep relaxation that allows the brain to rest and potentially consolidate learning.

What is the recommended duration for a session of NSDR?

The recommended duration for a session of NSDR is between 10 to 30 minutes, though it can be extended to an hour if desired. This time frame is believed to be sufficient for achieving the restorative benefits of the practice.

How does NSDR compare to a nap in terms of cognitive benefits?

While a nap can improve cognitive performance, it may also lead to sleep inertia, especially if it lasts longer than 20 minutes. NSDR, being a state of wakeful relaxation, does not create sleep inertia and can provide cognitive benefits without the associated grogginess of napping.

Can NSDR be used as a tool for stress mitigation?

Yes, NSDR can be used for stress mitigation. It has been observed to create dramatic decreases in sympathetic autonomic arousal, which is associated with the body's alertness and stress response, thus potentially offering a method to manage stress levels.

What is the relationship between NSDR and the rewiring of neural circuits?

The rewiring of neural circuits is believed to occur during sleep, and practices like NSDR that mimic sleep may enhance this process. The actual impact of NSDR on neural rewiring is an area of ongoing research, particularly in the context of trauma therapy and learning.

How does the practice of NSDR relate to the concept of 'being and feeling'?

NSDR encourages a shift from 'thinking and doing' to 'being and feeling'. This involves focusing on sensations in the body and being present in the moment, which is different from the anticipatory mode of thinking that often depletes dopamine reserves.

What are some resources where one can find NSDR or Yoga Nidra scripts?

NSDR and Yoga Nidra scripts can be found on various platforms such as YouTube, Spotify, and specific apps like 'Waking Up'. Some recommended voices for these scripts include Commy Desai, Kelly Boyer, and the speaker's own voice on their Clips Channel.

How might the state of body stillness and mental activity during NSDR impact creativity?

The state of body stillness and mental activity during NSDR may be conducive to creativity and cognitive endeavors. This is speculative, but the practice of being still while the mind remains active is seen in various successful individuals and may facilitate learning and idea generation.

Outlines

00:00

😴 Exploring Non-Sleep Deep Rest (NSDR) and Yoga Nidra

The speaker discusses their personal experience with poor sleep and the discovery of non-sleep deep rest (NSDR) and Yoga Nidra as alternatives to traditional sleep for replenishing the mind and body. They explain that Yoga Nidra, a practice involving lying still and breathing deeply, has been used for centuries to offset sleep loss and enhance mental and physical vigor. The speaker's own experience with Yoga Nidra was transformative, leading to the development of NSDR, a protocol that strips away the mystical aspects of Yoga Nidra and focuses on the physiological benefits. Preliminary research indicates that both practices may significantly increase dopamine levels in the brain, which is crucial for motivation and cognitive function. The speaker emphasizes the importance of further research to understand the neural mechanisms at play during NSDR and its potential benefits for sleep-deprived individuals.

05:00

🧠 Neural Level Exploration of Non-Sleep Deep Rest with Dr. Matthew Walker

The speaker elaborates on an ongoing collaboration with Dr. Matthew Walker to investigate the neural effects of non-sleep deep rest (NSDR) using brain imaging. They discuss the preliminary findings that suggest certain brain areas may enter sleep-like states during NSDR, which could potentially mimic the restorative aspects of sleep. The speaker also differentiates NSDR from meditation and hypnosis, highlighting its unique ability to teach self-directed relaxation without the need for focus or intention setting. They mention the subjective benefits of NSDR for individuals with sleep difficulties and the potential for NSDR to enhance cognitive performance and learning consolidation, similar to the first night effect of sleep. The speaker also speculates on the possible link between body-still, mind-active states and creativity, drawing parallels with rapid eye movement (REM) sleep.

10:01

🛌 The Benefits and Practice of Non-Sleep Deep Rest (NSDR)

The speaker shares their personal practice of NSDR, emphasizing its effectiveness in restoring mental and physical energy with just 10 to 30 minutes of daily practice. They compare NSDR to a nap, noting that it does not induce sleep inertia and can be a beneficial tool for cognitive performance. The speaker also explores the potential of NSDR for enhancing creativity and learning, as well as its application in trauma therapy to facilitate neural rewiring. They mention the use of NSDR in a trauma treatment clinic to maximize deep rest and prepare individuals for the challenges of therapy. The speaker concludes by advocating for NSDR as a potent and important tool for anyone looking to improve their mental and physical vigor, suggesting it as a minor investment with significant returns.

Keywords

💡Amotivation

Amotivation refers to a lack of motivation or unwillingness to engage in a task or activity. In the video, the speaker mentions feeling amotivated due to sleep deprivation and work-related stress, which is a common experience when individuals face challenges in maintaining their energy and focus.

💡Non-sleep deep rest (NSDR)

Non-sleep deep rest, or NSDR, is a relaxation technique that involves lying down and remaining still while trying to stay awake. It is distinct from sleep and aims to restore mental and physical energy. The speaker discusses NSDR as a method to replenish dopamine levels and counteract the effects of sleep deprivation.

💡Yoga Nidra

Yoga Nidra is an ancient relaxation protocol that translates to 'yogic sleep.' It involves lying down and focusing on breath while remaining still. The speaker learned about Yoga Nidra during a visit to a trauma treatment center and later developed NSDR based on this practice, emphasizing its restorative effects on the mind and body.

💡Dopamine

Dopamine is a neurotransmitter associated with reward, motivation, and movement. The script mentions the importance of sleep for replenishing dopamine levels. The speaker also discusses a study that shows Yoga Nidra and NSDR can significantly increase dopamine in the brain, which is crucial for mental and physical vigor.

💡Respiratory sinus arrhythmia

Respiratory sinus arrhythmia is a phenomenon where the heart rate slows down in response to deep, rhythmic breathing. The speaker mentions that long exhale breathing during NSDR and Yoga Nidra can induce this effect, which is beneficial for relaxation and overall well-being.

💡Striatum

The striatum is a region of the brain involved in movement, reward, and motivation pathways. The speaker refers to a study that observed an increase in dopamine levels in the striatum after practicing Yoga Nidra, suggesting a link between this relaxation technique and the brain's reward system.

💡Cognitive performance

Cognitive performance refers to the efficiency of cognitive processes such as memory, attention, and problem-solving. The script mentions that post-Yoga Nidra performance on cognitive tasks is improved, indicating that relaxation techniques like NSDR can have a positive impact on mental function.

💡Meditation

Meditation is a practice of focusing the mind to achieve a state of mental clarity and calmness. The speaker differentiates NSDR from meditation by stating that meditation is a focusing exercise, while NSDR is about being in a state of deep relaxation while remaining awake, which can be beneficial for those who have difficulty sleeping.

💡Sleep inertia

Sleep inertia is the groggy feeling that can occur after waking up from sleep, especially from a deep sleep cycle. The speaker contrasts NSDR with napping, noting that NSDR does not produce sleep inertia and can be a more effective way to restore energy without disrupting nighttime sleep.

💡Rewiring neural circuits

Rewiring neural circuits refers to the brain's ability to form new connections and pathways, which is crucial for learning and memory consolidation. The speaker speculates that NSDR might enhance this process, similar to the effects of sleep, and expresses interest in exploring this possibility with further research.

💡Rapid eye movement (REM) sleep

Rapid eye movement sleep is a stage of sleep characterized by rapid eye movements, increased brain activity, and vivid dreams. It is believed to be important for emotional regulation and memory consolidation. The speaker mentions the benefits of REM sleep and its potential relationship with NSDR in terms of emotional processing and memory.

Highlights

Introduction to non-sleep deep rest (NSDR) as a method to offset sleep loss and replenish mental and physical vigor.

Yoga Nidra, a thousand-year-old protocol for deep relaxation and rest without sleep, involves lying down and trying to stay awake while remaining completely still.

Yoga Nidra's effectiveness in stress mitigation and trauma treatment, observed in a Florida trauma treatment center.

The development of NSDR as a simplified and demystified version of Yoga Nidra, focusing on the physical and mental benefits without intentions.

NSDR's ability to create a state of deep rest that significantly decreases sympathetic autonomic arousal, similar to a shallow state of sleep.

A Danish study showing a 60% increase in dopamine levels in the striatum after an hour of Yoga Nidra, suggesting its potential in replenishing dopamine.

The potential cognitive benefits of Yoga Nidra and NSDR, such as improved performance on memory and cognitive tasks.

The minimal effective dose of NSDR being explored as 10 minutes, based on preliminary lab findings.

Collaboration with Dr. Matthew Walker to understand the neural level effects of NSDR using brain imaging.

The subjective benefits of NSDR for individuals with difficulty falling asleep, promoting self-directed relaxation.

The distinction between NSDR and meditation, with meditation being a focus exercise and NSDR promoting a sensory state of being and feeling.

The use of NSDR in the middle of the night for those struggling with sleep, as a tool to restore mental and physical vigor.

The availability of NSDR and Yoga Nidra scripts on platforms like YouTube and Spotify for easy access and practice.

The speculation on the potential of body-still mind-active states for creativity and cognitive endeavors, drawing parallels to REM sleep.

The use of NSDR in trauma treatment to maximize deep rest for neural rewiring and enhancing the ability to engage in trauma therapy.

The ongoing exploration of whether NSDR can replace lost sleep, enhance learning, and consolidate memory, similar to the first night effect.

The personal testimony of the speaker on the transformative effect of even a 10-minute session of NSDR on their mental state.

Transcripts

I want to like talk kind of shift gears

for a minute and talk about you know

like I I didn't get a good sleep I don't

know for a couple nights in a row and I

you have deadlines and things to work on

I was feeling very amotivated as you

like to to say and so I was you of

course deep in some of your stuff and um

came across this nonsleep deep rest and

I had never heard of it I mean I'm sure

it's you know become popular since

you've talked about it but I would love

for you to talk about the nonsleep deep

bre nsdr and you know so sleep is

important for replenishing dopamine and

I didn't I didn't get that replenishment

of dopamine and so um some tools that

people can do again we're talking about

behavioral tools that we've just

mentioned a few but um this this non

this non-sleep deep breast is

interesting to me and how it can help

rep replenish the Baseline pools yeah so

um I first thought about and learned

about something called Yoga Nidra Yoga

Nidra means yoga sleep there's a

thousand-year-old or more um protocol

where you lie down and you try to stay

awake while remaining completely still

it involves some long exhale breathing

which we know slows the heart rate

through respiratory sinus arhythmia

which is a good thing it slows the heart

rate and it is it had long been used as

a way to offset sleep loss as well as to

just create states of replenished mental

and physical Vigor even if you slept

well

and there were a bunch of theories and

some actually interesting writings about

Yoga Nidra potentially allowing people

to um tap into intentions and things

like that okay great I learned about

this process by the way I went

and somewhere around 2015 2016 I decided

to shift a significant portion of my lab

from animal studies to human studies and

I was very interested in stress

mitigation and Trauma so I went visit a

trauma Treatment Center in Florida where

they were doing Yoga Nidra with people

every morning for an hour they would

wake up they would do this yoga Nedra

for an hour I decided to participate

once or twice and I found it to be

incredibly restorative because I wasn't

sleeping well on that trip and I would

come out of it thinking like I just felt

like I slept eight hours I only slept

four or five broken hours I do this one

hour of yoganidra and whoa I feel

amazing like this is wild this is a big

effect what is this go back to my

laboratory we're studying stress stress

mitigation techniques

and for whatever reason you know I

decided okay

we could talk about Yoga Nidra but it's

a little bit like talking about

meditation and then you have these name

which is you know a little complicated

for the scientific literature because

it's not clear exactly what it is and I

want to be very clear I'm not trying to

take anything away from Yoga Nidra or

those practices I have tremendous

respect for them but I came up with this

thing called nonsleep deep rest or nsdr

for short which a gives people some

sense of what they're doing and B strips

away the intentions and any kind of

mysticism whatsoever and and it really

just involves lying down for anywhere

from 10 to 30 minutes or an hour I

suppose and people are doing long exhale

breathing to slow their heart rate and

calm down doing a sort of body scan of

paying attention to different parts of

their body trying to stay

awake but if they fall asleep it's

okay we observe that it creates very

dramatic decreases in sympathetic

autonomic arousal AKA alertness and

places the brain into and body into kind

of a of a a shallow state of sleep not

surprising but a state that is unusual

and at least to my knowledge not

observed in other meditative states that

at least you know to my knowledge but to

be fair we didn't do neuroimaging of

this so we didn't have a lot of insight

into it I started digging around in the

literature and turns out there's a study

out of a medical hospital in Denmark

that had people doing Yoga Nidra for an

hour so very similar protocol but an

hour and using what's called pet

positron aiss tomography measuring the

ount of dopamine in the reserve pool in

a certain key area of the brain called

the striatum which is involved in the

generation of movement it's also part of

the reward and motivation pathway

although you know there a bunch of

different Pathways for dopamine so I

want to be clear about that we talked

about that earlier so what they observed

was really interesting they observed at

least by Patron emission

tomography that people who did this

1hour yoganidra protocol experienced a

60% above Baseline increase in dopamine

in these key brain areas just from this

hour of lying there completely still

trying to stay awake listening to this

script relaxation I think like this is

wild and then there's some other studies

showing that post Yoga Nidra performance

on memory tasks or other cognitive tasks

is improved I got very excited about

this and started whittling down the

non-sleep Deep breast protocol to what

we hope is the minimal effective dose

which is about 10 minutes of non-sleep

deep rest um we've done some exploration

of that in my lab currently there is a

collaboration Brewing between myself and

Dr Matthew Walker the author of why we

sleep the great sleep researcher the

great Matt Walker to explore what is

happening at a neural level using brain

Imaging during non-sleep de rest Matt

has some my understanding is some

insight or hypothesis I don't know you

know what exactly um is based on so I

want to be very clear this is all very

very preliminary that certain pockets of

the brain might be able to go undergo

sleep-like States in things like nsdr

Yoga Nidra that is not whole brain

sleeping um but it might be pockets of

brain areas um going to sleep like

States and but the whole purpose of

doing these experiments going forward

this collaboration is to figure out

exactly what's happening at a neural

level during non-sleep deep rest and how

closely it mimics sleep can you recover

sleep that you lost we don't know here's

what we do know subjectively and again

this is anic data if you will these are

people who have challenges falling

asleep often benefit from doing

non-sleep deep rest a 10-minute or 20-

minute protocol at any time of day or

night because it's teaching you to

self-direct your own

relaxation it's different than

meditation because meditation involves

focusing meditation is really a focusing

perceptual exercise think about your

third eye center focus on your breath

redirect your focus every time it drifts

meditation is a focus exercise and work

from Wendy Suzuki's lab at NYU has shown

that it can improve performance in

different cognitive tasks but the

traditional forms of meditation

sometimes can disrupt people's ability

to sleep well why well you're increasing

Focus capacity to fall asleep you need

to kind of defocus and let go of your

thoughts it's kind of interesting at the

beginning of all yoga needra scripts at

least the ones I've heard you hear um

you're going to move from thinking and

doing to being and feeling very new Agy

language but let's explore that thinking

and doing is about anticipation it's

about

memory to feeling and being you're going

into as much as possible a purely

sensory state right you're focusing on

just how things feel you're not thinking

into the Future Past you're just

thinking future or past you're just

feeling sensation in your body very

interesting and we so different than

than meditation different than hypnosis

hypnosis is a sort of meditation

designed to solve a specific problem

quit smoking relax less pain okay

meditation more of a focus exercise

non-sleep deep de rest is used to

restore mental and physical Vigor and to

teach you to relax yourself so it can be

done in the middle of the night if

you're having trouble sleeping it can be

done in the morning this is when I

typically like to do it I did it this

morning I woke up at 5: that's a little

early for me actually had a phone call

uh for about an hour and then I realized

oh goodness I got to get up soon I'm

going to take 30 minutes and do a 30

minute non-sleep deep rest or in this

case it was Yoga Nidra I come out of

that and I recall fa being in a pseudo

sleep State and I personally just feel

as if I've slept 8 hours and many people

report this similar sensation and again

it's subjective but I think if ever

there was a protocol that is useful for

people to explore given that it's safe

at zero cost and that sleep is so

important and mental and physical Vigor

are so important and the datea on

dopamine it's a 10 to 20 minute yoga

Nedra or nsdr script we've put a few of

those out there on YouTube and there are

a lot of them um out there I really like

if I want a female voice I'll listen to

the ones by commy Desai de s AI or Kelly

boy Bo y she's on the waking up app she

has terrific

nsdr um scripts and yoga need your

scripts and then there's some with my

voice um I can't bear to hear the sound

of my own voice believe it or not um so

we have a 10-minute and 20 minute one at

our Clips Channel and there are a bunch

of you um Spotify scripts and you can

find them out there

but to me it's one of the more

interesting aspects of protocols meaning

you know we have exercise protocols we

have nutrition protocols we got

deliberate heat exposure deliberate cold

exposure protocols what about protocols

for restoring mental and physical Vigor

that aren't meditation that aren't

hypnosis that aren't pharmacology and

what does that look like it's taking the

brain out of that anticipatory mode so

if we speculate go okay move from

thinking and doing to being in Feeling

Again very new Agy but what are we doing

we're deliberately shifting our thinking

away from the very types of thought and

action that deplete the dopamine Reserve

pool right and should we be surprised

that there's this significant increase

in dopamine in the striatum post

yoganidra or nsdr probably not because

you're not tapping into that neural

circuitry for a period of time it also

underscores the extent to which in our

Waking Life we are constantly in Gold

directed Behavior even when we don't

realize it and so um I find nsdr to be

among the most potent and important

tools or protocols that I've used in my

own life I've continued to do it about

once a day um any time of day or night

sometimes based on need to get more

sleep sometimes just as a practice and

even 10 minutes of nsdr for me I emerge

from that feeling completely different

and always better I did your your

10-minute one of your 10minute sdrs the

other day impact you um it made me feel

better and I did it like I said I hadn't

gotten sleep in in the last two nights

and good sleep it was like my my sleep

was disrupted and um

and so I I I stopped and I did did your

protocol and listening to your voice was

very soothing and um it also helped me

like I was able to shift right back into

my work and I don't know if it's because

I was understanding I was trying to read

you know how how it's affecting dopamine

replenishing dopamine and so I sort of

believed myself into it or if it just

actually worked right I mean so I hope

so it's also not a nap well I'm glad you

had a good experience with it if people

don't of course there's no obligation to

do it again it's um it's different than

a nap because it does not create sleep

inertia um Matt Walker's talked about

the fact that not everyone needs to nap

but a nap can improve cognitive

performance if you're going to nap don't

nap too late in the day or certainly not

if it's going to disrupt your nighttime

sleep a 20 minute nap seems to be the

limit Beyond which it can increase sleep

inertia you can wake up feeling groggy

have trouble waking up and then people

then will use caffeine and then it just

trops their sleep I like a 20 minute to

30 minute nap I'm guilty of sometimes

taking a 30-minute na but yoganidra is

being awake while deeply relaxed and

that's a very unusual State I also want

to just speculate a little bit further

um there's some interesting ideas out

there about how body still mind active

States can be very useful for cre

creativity um keep we had a couple of

guests on the podcast including Carl

diero he has a practice believe it or

not where he sits completely still

deliberately completely still and forces

himself to think in complet complete

sentences for about an hour at night as

a way to sort of practice um thinking um

very interesting body still mind active

then Rick Rubin when he was on the

podcast not a scientist but um and we we

I'm fortunate to be friends with Rick he

does something

similar um what is a part of life where

the brain is very active the body is

completely still and is known to be

associated with ideas learning and

creativity rapid ey mov sleep so there's

something about the body being still and

the mind remaining active that may lend

itself to certain types of cognitive

effort or cognitive Endeavors I don't

know this hasn't really been explored

using neuroimaging um but I'm excited

about this as a as a potential tool and

non-sleep deep rest In Yoga Nidra again

the writing about it tends to be from

these more ancient

Traditions um but starts off talking

about replenishment of sleep learning

how to relax Etc but remember they were

doing this at a trauma treatment clinic

and I asked them why you know is it to

just calm everybody down make sure they

get enough sleep and they said no we're

doing so much work here trying to get

people to remap their relationship to

traumas and all and they were really

ahead of their time in understanding

that the actual rewiring of neural

circuits occurs during sleep so they

want to maximize the amount of deep rest

that people were getting to maximize the

rewiring but also that in these states

of Deep deep rest you also replenish the

ability to lean into what really is the

hard work of traum of trauma therapy

it's not easy and does the brain rewire

itself more readily if we're doing nsdr

Yoga Nidra I don't know I suspect yes

based on the similarity to sleep but

that's one of the things that Matt and I

would like to explore can it replace

sleep that one's lost can it enhance the

speed of learning can it reinforce

learning in the same day because there's

this thing called the first night effect

where the first night of sleep after a

of learning is really critical for

consolidating that learning but let's

face it sometimes we don't get that

night of sleep so can you wake up the

next morning and do a 30-minute nsdr and

consolidate learning sometimes that

learning is new information sometimes

that learning is The Dumping of

information you don't want right this is

why people who are rapid eye movement

sleep deprived often carry forward a lot

of emotionality that frankly they would

like to unload then you get a great

night's sleep and you're like that thing

that was bothering me that's like

nothing now right so rap an eye movement

sleep is is incredibly important and

Yoga Nidra AK um nsdr I should say nsdr

is a buildout from Yoga Nidra In

fairness

um I think is a super powerful technique

and you know 10 minutes is pretty minor

you know investment