BECOMING THE PERSON CLIENTS WANT TO SPEAK WITH - The Brutal Truth about Sales Podcast

Summary

In this insightful interview, John B., a seasoned sales professional with 20 years of experience, shares his journey from retail to enterprise sales. He discusses the importance of building genuine relationships, the art of face-to-face selling, and the challenges of overcoming rejection. John emphasizes the value of in-person meetings and his unique approach to fostering rapport outside the office environment. His story offers a compelling perspective on the evolution of sales tactics and the enduring significance of personal connections in the digital age.

Takeaways

• 😀 John has been in sales for about 20 years and appreciates the opportunity to discuss his experiences.
• 🏫 John's interest in sales began during college at the University of Houston, where he pursued a specialization in professional selling.
• 💼 John's first exposure to Salesforce.com was during his business school program, highlighting the early stages of the software's development.
• 📈 The sales program at the University of Houston has grown significantly since John's time, now offering a major in sales.
• 🤝 John believes that sales is primarily about building relationships and that people buy from those they like.
• 💪 John's outgoing personality and competitive nature made him a good fit for sales, as he enjoys meeting and interacting with people.
• 🚀 John's early sales experiences involved cold calling and door-to-door selling, which taught him resilience and how to handle rejection.
• 📚 John's first professional sales job was with Lexus Nexus, selling law books and legal research materials, which required him to be self-sufficient and adaptable.
• 🏢 John emphasizes the importance of getting out of the office to build relationships, which he believes is a lost art in the age of remote work.
• 🍽️ John found success in sales by inviting prospects to lunches and dinners, using these occasions to build rapport and understand their needs better.
• 🔄 John believes in the value of in-person meetings and the need to adapt to the post-COVID world, where in-person interactions are still important for sales.

Q & A

How long has John been in sales?

John has been in sales for about 20 years.

What was John's educational background related to sales?

John pursued a specialization as a business minor in professional selling at the University of Houston.

How did John first get exposed to Salesforce.com?

John was first exposed to Salesforce.com as part of his business school program in 1998.

What was John's first professional sales job?

John's first professional sales job was working for LexisNexis, selling law books and CD-ROMs and online legal research to lawyers.

What personal traits does John believe make him successful in sales?

John believes his outgoing personality, competitive nature, and ability to build and maintain relationships are key traits that make him successful in sales.

How did John's experience in high school selling ads for the yearbook influence his career choice?

John's success in selling ads for the yearbook in high school sparked his interest in sales as a potential career, leading him to pursue it further in college.

What was the weekly quota system like for John in his early sales career?

In his early sales career, John had a weekly, monthly, and quarterly quota, which meant he had to start from zero every Monday and write enough business each week to keep his job.

How did John handle rejection in his sales career?

John learned to be impervious to rejection, managing transactions and pipelines effectively, and not letting negative experiences bog him down.

What is John's approach to building relationships with clients?

John's approach involves getting people out of the office and into more casual settings like lunches, dinners, or events, which helps break down barriers and build stronger relationships.

How does John view the role of in-person meetings in the sales process?

John believes that in-person meetings are critical for building rapport and understanding the client's needs and dynamics better than what can be achieved through email or virtual meetings.

What advice does John have for younger sales reps regarding in-person interactions?

John advises younger reps to embrace in-person interactions, as they provide an opportunity to build deeper relationships and gain insights that are not possible in a virtual setting.

How does John handle difficult conversations with clients?

John emphasizes the importance of being comfortable delivering difficult messages and challenging people, while also being prepared to take the 'bad cop' role when necessary to protect the client's internal position.

What was John's strategy for transitioning from LexisNexis to enterprise sales?

John moved into enterprise software sales through Epicore ERP, focusing on small to medium-sized businesses, and then transitioned to selling to General Counsel at an enterprise software company.

How does John leverage his personal experiences to connect with clients?

John uses personal experiences, such as his competitive nature and his need to be active and in-person, to build rapport and understand clients' perspectives better.

Outlines

00:00

🎓 Early Sales Experience and Education

In this paragraph, John discusses his background in sales, which spans over 20 years. He started in retail while attending the University of Houston, where he pursued a specialization in professional selling. John's first exposure to software sales was through this program, which he found to be highly effective in preparing him for a career in the field. He attributes his success in sales to his outgoing personality, competitive nature, and the ability to build relationships with clients.

05:04

🚀 Overcoming Rejection and Building Resilience

John shares his experiences from the early days of his sales career, where he had to be self-sufficient without the support structures available today. He talks about the challenges of cold calling and facing rejection, especially when selling to lawyers as a representative of Lexus Nexus. The paragraph highlights the importance of resilience, learning to manage transactions and pipelines, and the pressure of meeting quotas, which were crucial in developing his sales skills.

10:04

💼 Transition to Enterprise Sales and Adaptability

The paragraph details John's transition from selling law books and CD ROMs to enterprise software sales. He emphasizes the complexity and length of enterprise deals, which required a different set of skills compared to his previous role. John discusses the importance of adaptability in sales and how he found his way to work at a startup, where he spent over 12 years, showcasing his ability to evolve with the industry.

15:06

🤝 The Art of Relationship Building in Sales

John explains his sales philosophy, which centers on building relationships outside the office. He believes that getting to know clients on a personal level, through lunches, dinners, and other social events, is key to breaking down barriers and closing deals. The paragraph also touches on the impact of COVID-19 on in-person meetings and the value of face-to-face interactions in the sales process.

20:07

🍽 The Power of In-Person Meetings for Deal Making

This paragraph focuses on the strategy of inviting clients to meals or events outside the office to build rapport and gain insights into their needs and objections. John shares a specific case where consistent meetings over lunch led to a significant deal. He also discusses the importance of setting the right tone for such meetings and avoiding turning them into business discussions.

25:09

🔄 Navigating Challenges and Adapting Sales Techniques

John talks about the challenges of returning to in-person meetings after the COVID-19 lockdown and the need to adapt sales techniques to the new normal. He emphasizes the importance of being comfortable with risk-taking and challenging the status quo. The paragraph also discusses the value of in-person office visits to understand the client's environment and dynamics, which can be crucial for sales success.

🛡 Taking the Heat: Supporting Champions in the Sales Process

In this final paragraph, John discusses the concept of sales champions within an organization and the importance of supporting them throughout the sales process. He shares his approach to taking on the 'bad cop' role when necessary, allowing the champion to maintain a positive relationship within their organization. John also talks about the importance of being willing to take risks and ask difficult questions to move deals forward.

Keywords

💡Sales

Sales refers to the process of selling goods or services to customers in exchange for money or other valuable consideration. In the context of the video, the speaker has been in sales for about 20 years and discusses how his personality and competitive nature made it a suitable career choice. The video explores the evolution of sales, from traditional in-person interactions to modern digital platforms.

💡Salesforce.com

Salesforce.com is a leading cloud-based customer relationship management (CRM) service provider. The speaker mentions being exposed to Salesforce.com in 1998 as part of a business school program, highlighting how it was a new and emerging platform at the time. This example illustrates the growth and impact of digital solutions in the sales industry.

💡Personality

Personality in this context refers to the individual characteristics and traits that influence a person's behavior and interactions. The speaker discusses how his outgoing and competitive personality made him well-suited for a career in sales, emphasizing the importance of building relationships and being likable in the sales process.

💡Rejection

Rejection in sales refers to the experience of having a sales pitch or offer declined by a potential customer. The speaker talks about learning to be impervious to rejection, which is crucial in sales as it is a common occurrence. He shares his experiences of facing rejection in his early career, such as being thrown out by secretaries or admins, and how it taught him resilience.

💡Enterprise Sales

Enterprise sales involves selling products or services to large organizations or businesses. The speaker transitioned from retail sales to enterprise software sales, indicating a shift in scale and complexity. Enterprise sales often requires more strategic planning and relationship building due to the larger deals and longer sales cycles involved.

💡Relationship Building

Relationship building in sales is about establishing and maintaining strong connections with potential and existing customers. The speaker emphasizes the importance of getting to know customers outside of the office environment, such as through lunches or dinners, to build trust and rapport. This approach is seen as a key factor in his success in sales.

💡Champion

In the context of sales, a champion is an internal advocate within a customer's organization who supports and promotes a product or service. The speaker discusses the importance of having a champion within a company to help navigate the sales process and take on some of the responsibility, highlighting the need for sales reps to be willing to take on some of the pressure to protect their champions.

💡Referrals

Referrals in sales are recommendations from satisfied customers to potential new customers. The speaker talks about the value of asking for referrals as a way to expand the customer base and leverage existing relationships. He mentions that building a strong relationship with customers can lead to them referring others who could benefit from the product or service.

💡Zoom

Zoom is a video conferencing platform that has become popular for remote work and communication. The speaker mentions the shift to digital sales interactions, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic, and how it has changed the dynamics of sales. He contrasts this with the in-person sales approach he prefers, highlighting the challenges of building relationships remotely.

💡Risk-taking

Risk-taking in sales involves making bold moves or decisions that could potentially lead to greater rewards but also carry the risk of failure. The speaker discusses the need for salespeople to be comfortable with taking risks, such as calling high-level executives directly or challenging the status quo within a customer's organization, to drive sales forward.

💡In-person Meetings

In-person meetings are face-to-face interactions that are often crucial in the sales process for building trust and understanding customer needs. The speaker emphasizes the importance of being physically present with customers, even post-sale, to observe office dynamics and maintain relationships. He notes the challenges of returning to in-person meetings after the pandemic and the need to readjust to this mode of interaction.

Highlights

John has been in sales for about 20 years and attributes his success to his outgoing personality and competitive nature.

He pursued a specialization in professional selling at the University of Houston, which he credits for preparing him well for his career.

John's early sales experience involved cold calling businesses to sell ads for his high school yearbook, sparking his interest in sales.

He emphasizes the importance of building relationships in sales, believing that people buy from those they like.

John's first professional sales job involved selling law books and legal research materials, which taught him resilience and how to handle rejection.

He learned to be impervious to rejection and manage transactions and pipelines effectively, crucial skills for his sales career.

John's approach to sales involves getting prospects out of the office to build rapport and understand their needs better.

He believes that face-to-face interactions are essential for breaking down barriers and fostering trust in sales relationships.

John shares a strategy of inviting prospects to high-end lunches to build relationships and eventually close significant deals.

He discusses the importance of setting ground rules for meetings, such as not discussing business unless the prospect initiates it.

John emphasizes the value of in-person meetings even in the age of remote work, believing that they are crucial for sales success.

He shares his experience of using in-person interactions to understand office dynamics and identify competition.

John talks about the art of asking for help in sales, suggesting that building strong relationships can lead to referrals and support.

He discusses the importance of being willing to take risks and challenge the status quo in sales.

John shares a story of how he took the initiative to call a VP of accounting to resolve a contract issue, demonstrating his proactive approach.

He believes that sales reps should be prepared to take the 'bullets' for their champions within a client's organization.

John concludes by sharing his LinkedIn profile where he posts periodically, inviting connections and further discussions.

Transcripts

hey John thanks for joining us today as

way of getting started give us a little

background on

yourself uh good morning thanks for

having me uh so much I appreciate it so

been in sales about 20 years now uh post

on LinkedIn when when time permits

seeing you walking around your

neighborhood for a few years looks like

uh you're always in a great mood and

having a good time talking about sales

and taking your

walks and why sales for you

uh that's an interesting question so I

put myself through college working

retail um and I went to the University

of Houston they were really ahead of the

sales game I think they offered a

specialization as a business minor in

professional selling um and so a buddy

that I worked with in retail was a

marketing major I was a marketing minor

um he brought this certification to my

attention and said what do you think I

said yeah let's let's see if the school

knows what they're talking about uh and

so we we did this certification and we

were like you know what this this could

be a career uh really before I think

people looked at sales or maybe even

software sales as a career right this is

1998 back when salesforce.com was still

brand new um and that's actually the

first time we were exposed to it was was

part of this business school program and

so part par parly that into a

and how did you judge that program now

you got 20 years in the field how how

well did it prepare you I think it did a

pretty fantastic job uh there was only

around 30 or 40 of us in the program at

the time my understanding is they've

they've got at least a few hundred now I

mean it is legitimate in ways that um I

don't think either of us ever expected

um it's something that I think you can

even major in now uh which is just

mindblowing to think about the growth

and the success they've had has has been

amazing but what about seal sales appeal

to you as a person as John um I think it

matched my personality so I was um I was

on the yearbook staff in high school uh

and we had to we had to sell ads to

support the yearbook and I remember

getting in my mom's car and driving

around our neighborhood and literally

physically cold calling

businesses uh begging them to buy ads

for the yearbook and as a as a junior I

out so all the seniors and won um

$100 which might have been a million

when you're 17 in 199

one uh and it I was like man could I

actually do this for a

living and and you know I didn't I mean

what did I know about sales in 1991

other than guys that tried to sell you

Vacuums at your front door which I'm

sure you remember but a lot of your

listeners probably have no no idea what

I'm talking about but but let's dig into

that what what about your personality

appeal to that you seem to like

it um so I love to be out and meeting

people and talking to people and getting

to know people I've always felt like

sales was purely based first and

foremost on relationships I think people

buy from who they like I think if you

have a pretty Dynamic personality and

you're friendly and you can build and

maintain and Foster

relationships uh people are going to buy

from you right uh again people buy from

who they like I certainly have tried

over the years uh to be likable might

not have always been successful there

depending on the sales cycle and who's

on the other side of the desk uh but I

think it matched my outgoing personality

I think it matched my competitive nature

um and as I said I put myself through

college work in retail so it's not like

I came from um you know a wealthy family

and I saw pretty early especially just

you know working uh at the Gap and Ralph

Lauren in college uh that you know if

you worked really hard and you put a lot

of effort into it financially it would

pay off um and that matched where I

thought I needed to be

longterm um and again that comp

comptitive nature I mean I didn't play

sports but was competitive academically

and through just achievements and I

could tell pretty quick that uh if you

were competitive and likable and driven

uh which were some of the things that I

felt like I was at the time um and I

think as you get older you you realize

what your strengths are and you play to

those strengths as well yeah what what

was missing from the mix that you had to

add

um so learning how to memorize scripts

memorize demos U being a oneman

show uh because you know in the early

days there was no se there was no psse

there was no subject matter expert there

was no sales operations or Revenue

operations and you might have had one

contract lawyer who was split amongst 20

or 30 people so you had to do all of

those things on your own

U which presents its own set of

challenges now this would again likely

be unrecognizable to the majority of

your viewers and listeners because

they're supported by you know an army of

people uh but I had to learn how to do

all those things on my own my first real

professional sales job was working for

Lexus Nexus uh selling law books and CD

ROMs and online legal research to

lawyers where you were physically

walking in the door

um and so you had to learn how to be

courageous really fast and you had to

learn how to be

bulletproof uh because the pargal or the

secretary or the admin would promptly

throw you out and you could not let that

bother you you had to be impervious to

rejection um now I'm noticing that about

you what is that which part is that had

a perious to rejection and it only that

I don't have that so I admire it when I

see people who do and I wonder how they

get it well you get hit about the face

um over and over and over again right

and you you're calling on lawyers who

you know are educated and they have

their own personality type um and you

you don't know who's on the other side

of that door and so you learn pretty

fast in your you know mid to late 20s

that this is going to be difficult

and if you're starting out at 9 9:30 in

the morning and the first door you open

what are you do at

9:45 get out um you can't go home right

um this will again sound really wild to

some of the folks that that watch but we

had a weekly quota I mean can you

imagine people talk about the Sunday

scaries there was nothing more

terrifying than going to bed every

Sunday night and knowing Monday morning

you were back to zero we had a weekly

monthly L quarterly annual quota and so

you had to write so much business every

week um to to keep your job uh so yeah

that was tough and it taught you how to

be impervious to rejection how to manage

transactions how to manage

pipelines um it was it was not easy and

the fir it being the first job was

presented its own set of challenges as

well but but it sounds like you were

pretty far along build building up that

resilience from high school um sure so

you

know when PE well yes yes and no right

when you're standing on the sales floor

of the Ralph Lauren store in the Houston

Galleria very different it's air

condition yeah it's air yeah it's air

conditioned and it's you know lovely

surroundings and you know $5,000 custom

suits and very wealthy people coming in

who are are technically there you know

to to buy MTO measure suits and cile

shoes and these kinds of things but

every once in a while you'd have someone

that was just not not very friendly

let's say and and you know they're

they're just five feet away from you

right and there's nowhere to escape to

and so you you know you learn how to

build up that uh being impervious to

rejection for the folks that have come

in to sales during the age of Zoom

they're probably not familiar with what

that looks like and feels like

right certainly the feeling but it's

different right it's um it it yeah it's

diff well yes that's true right like you

can see if someone's rejecting you on a

camera right when no one shows or

someone hangs up there's still that

right right right yeah it yes it it

still does happen but when it's physical

it's I think it adds an extra element

right and so when you're in a meeting

and you know let's say this is

2019 and you're doing a demo in person

live in an office and there's 20 people

in the conference room and everyone's on

their laptop you know you know that

that's them physically telling you we

are not interested right and so you've

got to figure out a way to say okay

everybody right like I brought in lunch

here like you kind of open the

opportunity to pay attention um so

that's it tough message to deliver and

you know you asked the question what

were things you had to

learn I think another thing I had to

learn was how to deliver a difficult

message a challenging message whether

that was asking people to change a

process asking people to think about

things differently asking people to look

at you know what was their professional

existence on how they were doing things

how could we help how could we improve

um as I coached and mentored younger

reps over the years that was always

something I would tell them that they

had to get good at pretty fast which is

you need to become

comfortable challenging people and you

need to become comfortable delivering

difficult messages like if they're

asking for a bigger discount than what

you've offered and you're at the end of

where you know sales offs Revenue Ops

your VP your manager can approve that's

it I mean everyone has to money on the

deal and you have to be comfortable

saying you know Sarah we're we're we're

at the end of incentives now right um

and that's also difficult and that took

some time to learn too and how did you

internally process it I mean you must

have been saying something to yourself

like I tell myself oh it doesn't matter

move on next but I think you've done a

really good job of that early in your

career with very hard things high school

with the high school

yearbook the uh Lexus

Nexus yeah I think you you you take the

time to internalize and reflect but

you're under pressure so you can't spend

a lot you can't spend too much time

right like you've got to keep going

you've got to keep moving um whether

it's a weekly quota or a family to

support or a mortgage to pay or a car

note right you can't get bogged down on

too much negativity you've got to you've

got to look at what went right this week

what went wrong what can I do better

what did I say in a meeting that really

worked um and you know continue to say

those things um but also getting

comfortable with again delivering a

tough message um asking people to think

differently about how they do things um

even if that forces them to take sock on

maybe their process they developed over

many years and you're asking them to

change that it could it could be

anything right like it sounds silly to

to tell this story but I remember um

there was a criminal defense lawyer in

downtown San Antonio that I was trying

to get off of books and buy a CD ROM

okay uh and I said you know you're going

to the be County Law Library to research

cases those books haven't been updated

in years and he's like oh I don't care I

enjoy that walk to the law library I'm

like this is I enjoy law history this is

this is my competition walking to the

law library like no one prepared me to

sell against being outside like how do

you you know my competition is is not do

nothing or the other uh publisher it's I

like the walk to the library and so I

said well still take the walk I suppose

just know that if you spent a few

hundred bucks a month that you know your

research is current and he's like yeah

you know I guess I guess that's true

plus I I mean San Antonio is every bit

as hot as Houston I I live in KD west of

Houston and I just couldn't imagine

walking to the law library in June July

August or September in downtown San

Antonio but he seemed to love those 105

degree temperatures yeah and how did you

get out of the Lexus Nexus into kind of

Enterprise sales was that like um so I

moved into enterprise software

through um through uh epicore Erp

warehousing inventory easy stuff yeah oh

yeah exactly um and selling to small to

medium-sized businesses where I felt

like that transition would make the most

sense um and then went back to Legal

selling to uh The General Counsel um at

at an Enterprise software company where

the you know the deals were much bigger

and took much longer and far more

complicated um and then found my way to

where Keo when it was a startup and and

spent 12 plus years there and what do

you feel is your strongest selling

characteristic um do you mean the the

type of of well some people great with

questions stories top down bottom off

Rapport building things like that um so

I like to get people out of the office I

am not a fan of managing the entire

sales cycle over email uh Zoom Google

meet uh and I see people are adding

their prospects to slack um I think all

of that is fine I think that's that's

the core of how you run a process but

you I've always felt like my strongest

suit is just building relationships as I

said at the outset getting people out of

the office um getting to know them them

getting to know you you know when you

sell

to Legal accounting investor relations

they have a natural opposition I feel to

to sales reps for a variety of reasons

as as a chief accounting officer told me

once she said the only two reps I've

ever liked are you and my Oracle rep and

I said oh well thank you that's that's

very sweet uh and if you get people out

of the office get to know them they get

to know you whether it's lunch dinner

happy hour breakfast coffee events um

you get to find out much more than you

would in the office or over email or

over the phone um and it breaks down

barriers and it gives you I think

special access to them that you

otherwise wouldn't have and due to covid

and I think maybe just a generational

shift this has become a lost art it is

you might hear that or see that maybe

more than I do um you know I had one of

the highest credit limits on on my

corporate card at worka than anyone else

in all the field sales because I I

wanted people out of the office I wanted

to get to know them I wanted to build

that relationship away from you know

their Cube or their their

desk um and that I felt was my strongest

Su and led to a

significant uh number of deals um and

success as well and it is a lost

startart how did you do it how didd you

get the invite what was the best venue

for you to build that rapport

with um so I I test well I ran a test

case on how critical getting people out

of the office was with a prospect that

was they told us know many many times so

I found an alternative contact I invited

her to lunch it was right in front of

their office um it's a place called true

Lux here in Houston which has high-end

Seafood it's not inexpensive by any

means so I knew that it was close it was

um high-end and it all just made sense

and over a 12-month period I met her for

lunch once a month and found our way to

one of the biggest deals um of that year

just by breaking down those barriers and

you know at the third lunch I said

listen you know the other guy I was

calling was incredibly resistant and she

said oh yes yes he wants to retire he

doesn't want any changes made he can't

be bothered um and he does not like

you I said likeable yeah she's like well

he doesn't like you he didn't like that

you co called him uh but I love that you

called me and you know we're we're going

to get this to work but it's going to

take time and I knew right away that

time meant at least nine

months and it did it took an additional

nine months and a lot of lunches and a

lot of the company's money um but it

worked and I knew then okay getting

accountants lawyers whoever it security

CIO CFO get them out of the office um

have it make sense give it something

that causes them to say yes and just

strip away those barriers that they put

up and we put up um and I think if you

can get to know people on a professional

level outside of the office but also a

personal level it it just makes a huge

difference and again if I could train

you know younger reps who are just

starting out to embrace that

uh because although people are back in

the office I still think that you know

Zoom is the default right I think if you

could get them to see how much value

there is um in meeting people that would

be great but I also think that um a a

business that would make hundreds of

thousands of dollars is Consulting on

wardrobing because you would not want to

show up in hoodie and basketball shorts

um so anyway there's that and you don't

want to make the lunch a business

meeting meaning you don't want to be

opening your laptop talking about the

product talking about other customers

talking about your

company

no yeah so it's it's interesting you say

that so um lunches and dinners and happy

hours and things I would I would lay

ground rules right away you know I'd let

everyone get to know each other in

introductions and all these things um

and I would say okay so I I'm not a big

fan of

rules uh but I do have a few and my

first rule is um we are not going to

talk

shop unless you absolutely want to

there's something you need to know

there's you know I wasn't clear on

something or you're struggling

internally with moving this process

forward but I did not ask you here to

talk

shop so straight away I don't want want

you to think about me as your sales rep

I just want you to think about me as

someone you met for dinner um second is

you know don't be bashful order anything

you want right we're here to get to know

each other you don't need to stick to

water um and the 6 ounce play you can go

all out right um and that always set the

tone as okay this is different because

typically you're not quid pro quo right

exact and that's I did not want people

to ever feel that way yeah um and uh you

know prior to the lockdown prior to

covid man it worked like

magic then then came the dark

times and have you tried it recently or

yes

uh um I think people are still although

it's 2024 people are still trying to get

comfortable you know remembering what

life was like prior it is yeah and and

it's not as if people are in the office

five days a week and so it can be a

little tricky uh but so can getting back

into in-person meetings I mean people

are still not 100% comfortable with that

and you know that's another thing that I

used to do routinely is any excuse that

I could come up with no matter how

flimsy to to be in their office man I

wanted it like I wanted to to be there

even post

sale um just to look around like okay

you know what's the dynamic in the

office Who's Who and you know is my

competition in here those were the

things that I was always concerned about

and did other people at the company not

understand this or see the value and the

real meaning behind it did they

misunderstand it no I don't think so I

think everyone has their own personality

type everyone has their own way of doing

things um I was again just raised on

being in person and always wanting to be

there physically and finding you know

this existence in a sales model just

very

challenging um and trying to get back

into inperson

everything um has been critical and for

some folks it just it doesn't make sense

it won't make sense they waited their

entire career for for whatever this is

to

to come to fruition and they love it uh

but yeah I was always very active in

doing social stuff and you know

certainly um had some um hair raising

and eyebrow raising expense reports but

they were Justified for sure because

it's where the magic happens it's where

people open up it's where you start to

sense the real things like the

retirement example he would never tell

you that right no never and also you you

know when you get to know people and

they get to know you which I think is

impossible in a conference room then

then they want to help you so that's

another thing that I think you have to

get good at is asking for help right um

if you want to be successful and move

things forward and um you know help can

also come in the form of asking for them

to do a reference call or asking them

for referrals like okay Wendy you've had

a great experience it's been six months

you know who else do you know who's like

you that could benefit and maybe there's

you know a referral bonus that they get

on their bill but they don't care I mean

that $5,000 on their subscription that

doesn't hit their wallet that just hits

the company and so that's where things

like you know a $200 lunch just makes

all the difference as you get to know

people because you can always go back

and ask for their help or ask for

references referrals and you know if a

deal gets stuck and you've gotten to

know someone you can go back to them and

say okay listen it's six weeks we don't

have redlines on the t's and C's um I

don't want you to go ask legal again

what's going on because they're already

irritated with you so why don't you just

tell me who you're talking to and I'll

be the bad I'll call legal and say hey

it's John with you know ex company and

I'm trying to find out where we are on

this contract you know can you can you

give me an update because I don't want

Wendy to keep basking right and then

Wendy becomes the good cop the rep is

the bad cop which I think is pretty

critical in in a lot of selling

scenarios that I think has also become a

lost start right you you were taught um

through medic and these other sales

methodologies to create a CH ion and and

yes I agree that that's important but

that champion has to take all the

bullets and a lot of responsibility a

champion yeah it is and that is that

isn't fair right and so you know I I

used to say to you know whoever my

Champion was you're going to be me

inside of the

organization but when you feel like the

Heat's getting too

hot you know I I don't work there so

once the deal is signed

I'm good but you have to stay on the

payroll so if you feel like things are

too hot for you you need to just tell me

and I am more than happy to call Legal

call it call accounting and find out

where are we right and if they get

irritated that's okay I don't work there

um and that's not something that I think

sales reps are taught they're not taught

to take the bullets and I think you have

to be willing to take those bullets yeah

because they're also not aware of what

that Champion's going through and if you

don't have that that strong Rapport are

they going to tell you that legal is

sitting on it or that somebody in

finance is n saying it or the CEO

doesn't understand the

problem so I learned that lesson 20 11

or 12 I kept calling my champion and

he's like I don't know I asked and I

can't get an update so I called the VP

of accounting on his cell phone before

that was even a thing right think about

that back in

2012 one I was shocked he answer two I

was shocked he didn't hang up and I said

Al listen I am so sorry to bother you no

tell me what it is and I said well you

know we cannot get red lines on the t's

and C's what do you mean I said well

we've been trying for weeks and oh nope

nope I'm going to handle it you'll have

them in an hour sure enough we did yeah

and you know that was a dice roll on my

part he could have lost it um so again

um I think you have to be willing to

take the bullet you have to be able to

challenge and ask the tough questions

and take some risks which we haven't

talked about but I think it's inherent

that you know if you're in sales you got

to be okay with risky

Behavior hey John I really appreciate

your time today where can people go to

connect and follow you um so I'm on

LinkedIn I post periodically it's John B

on LinkedIn Bei St appreciate you asking

and having me and I'd love to come back

and spend however much more time you

need I'm sorry that it's shorter than

anticipated