Creativity and Innovation Aren't Exactly What You Think They Are

Summary

In this episode of Mastery, Richard Cox Braden, a Stanford D school instructor, shares insights on creativity and innovation. Debunking myths, he emphasizes that innovation is accessible to everyone and not just the domain of geniuses. Braden discusses six key mindsets crucial for innovation and the importance of embracing ambiguity and learning from failure. He advocates for a culture that encourages incremental progress and highlights the role of creative leadership in fostering an innovative environment.

Takeaways

• 📚 Richard Braden's upcoming book 'Innovation' aims to make innovation accessible to everyone by debunking myths and providing a framework for understanding and applying creativity and innovation.
• 🧠 Braden emphasizes that creativity and innovation are not exclusive to certain individuals or roles, but are inherent in everyone, and can be cultivated through practice and mindset shifts.
• 🎨 Creativity is defined as using imagination to solve problems, while innovation involves applying creativity to create something new and bringing it into existence.
• 🤔 Braden identifies six key mindsets crucial for innovation: Interactions, Insights, Ideas, Iterations, Inspiration, and Implications, each focusing on different aspects of the innovation process.
• 🌐 Interactions involve engaging with the world and learning from others, while Insights involve synthesizing information to understand problems deeply.
• 💡 The Ideas mindset encourages generating a multitude of ideas, with the understanding that not all will be successful, but the process of ideation is essential.
• 🔄 Iterations involve testing ideas and being open to feedback and adjustments, highlighting the importance of flexibility and adaptability in the innovation process.
• 📈 Inspiration is about storytelling and enacting narratives to engage others in the innovation process, emphasizing the role of communication in gaining support and collaboration.
• 🔮 The Implications mindset focuses on considering the potential consequences of innovations, both intended and unintended, to ensure responsible and thoughtful innovation.
• 🚀 Braden encourages leaders to foster an innovation culture by embracing ambiguity, rewarding experimentation and failure as part of the learning process, and empowering teams to take initiative.

Q & A

What is the main theme of Richard Braden's upcoming book 'Innovation'?

The main theme of Richard Braden's book 'Innovation' is to make innovation accessible to everyone by debunking myths about innovation and providing insights on how anyone can harness their creativity.

Why does Richard Braden feel sad when he asks a class if they are creative and only a few hands go up?

Richard Braden feels sad because he knows that everyone is creative, but people often don't recognize or believe in their own creativity due to societal or self-imposed limitations.

What are the six mindsets that Richard Braden identifies as crucial for innovation?

The six mindsets are interactions, insights, ideas, iterations, inspiration, and implications.

How does Richard Braden define creativity?

Richard Braden defines creativity as the use of one's imagination to solve a problem, which is more inclusive than just creating a work of art.

What is the difference between creativity and innovation as explained by Richard Braden?

Creativity is the use of imagination to solve problems, while innovation is applying creativity to create something new to the world and making it exist, often involving entrepreneurship.

How does Richard Braden describe the process of innovation in his book?

Richard Braden describes the process of innovation as one that involves six different mindsets and is not about a single 'Eureka' moment but rather continuous incremental iteration and learning.

What is the role of failure in the innovation process according to Richard Braden?

According to Richard Braden, failure is a part of the learning process in innovation. It is not something to be celebrated, but it should be seen as a necessary step towards achieving the goal, provided it is not due to routine execution errors.

How can leaders foster innovation within their organizations?

Leaders can foster innovation by embracing ambiguity, being comfortable with failure as a learning process, and encouraging their teams to take risks and iterate on ideas.

What are some common myths about innovation that Richard Braden addresses in his book?

Some common myths include the belief in an overnight epiphany, the necessity of being a lone genius, and the idea that innovation only happens in places like Silicon Valley.

What is the importance of storytelling and narrative in the innovation process as discussed by Richard Braden?

Storytelling and narrative are important in innovation because they help to inspire and enroll others in your vision. It is a way to articulate your idea in a way that makes sense and motivates people to join and support your project.

How does Richard Braden suggest individuals give themselves permission to innovate?

Richard Braden suggests that individuals should start by innovating within their current work, incorporating small changes and testing ideas without the pressure of having to make a significant impact immediately.

Outlines

00:00

📚 Introduction to Richard Braden's Insights on Innovation

Richard Braden, an instructor at Stanford D school, discusses his upcoming book 'Innovation' aimed at making innovation accessible to everyone. He emphasizes the importance of creativity in various professional fields and shares his experiences teaching creativity and innovation, highlighting the common misconception that only a select few can be creative. Braden's approach to debunking myths about innovation and creativity involves changing people's definitions and relationships with these concepts.

05:01

🚀 Making Innovation Accessible Through Frameworks

The conversation delves into Braden's research on design and innovation frameworks, identifying six key mindsets necessary for innovation. He explains the importance of having a simple view of innovation to utilize various tools effectively. The book 'Innovation' serves as a guide to navigate the vast amount of information available on the subject, helping those who have struggled with innovation to get back on track and reassuring people that they have the capacity to innovate.

10:01

🤔 Distinguishing Creativity from Innovation

Braden and the host explore the difference between creativity and innovation, using the framework provided by Professor Tina Seelig. They define imagination as the ability to envision something that doesn't exist, creativity as using imagination to solve problems, and innovation as applying creativity to create something new. Entrepreneurship is presented as the next step, making ideas exist in the world.

15:02

🔍 The Role of Design Thinking in Innovation

The discussion highlights design thinking as a structured methodology that encompasses the same set of mindsets as innovation. Braden explains that design thinking is just one of many methodologies and emphasizes the importance of not being locked into a single approach. He encourages exploring various resources and understanding the core principles of design thinking to foster creativity and innovation.

20:03

🌟 Cultivating Innovation Mindsets: Interactions and Insights

Braden outlines the first two of the six innovation mindsets: interactions and insights. Interactions involve engaging with the world and learning from others, while insights require synthesizing information to understand problems deeply. He stresses the importance of these mindsets for innovation and suggests that embracing ambiguity and redefining the relationship with failure can help cultivate them.

25:05

🔄 Embracing Failure and Encouraging Innovation

The conversation continues with the importance of embracing failure as a part of the innovation process. Braden differentiates between productive failure that leads to learning and unproductive failure that stems from not executing routine tasks. He encourages leaders to foster a culture where failure is seen as an opportunity for growth and innovation.

30:07

🛍️ Leadership and Innovation: Case Study of a Luxury Brand

Braden shares a story of a luxury brand CEO who, after learning new innovation tools, allowed his team to experiment with a new approach that contradicted the company's previous stance. The successful outcome of this experiment led to a change in company policy, illustrating the power of leadership in fostering innovation and the importance of being open to new ideas.

35:08

💡 Debunking Myths About Innovation

The discussion addresses common myths about innovation, such as the overnight success story and the Eureka moment. Braden emphasizes that innovation is a result of hard work, persistence, and continuous iteration. He encourages people to give themselves permission to innovate and to incorporate innovative practices into their existing work.

40:13

🎯 Incremental Innovation and the Role of Humility

Braden suggests that humility is key to embracing incremental innovation. He advises setting realistic expectations and taking small steps towards innovation. The idea is to focus on making continuous improvements rather than aiming for grand, moonshot innovations in every endeavor.

45:14

🎶 The Analogy of Music and Innovation

In this segment, Braden draws an analogy between classical and jazz music to explain the different approaches to innovation. Classical music represents a structured and precise process, while jazz symbolizes creativity within a loose framework, allowing for improvisation and collaboration. He relates this to the innovation process, where teams can work together with a shared understanding of objectives to create something new and valuable.

🛠️ Creative Leadership and Enhancing Problem Solving

The final paragraph focuses on the concept of creative leadership, where Braden emphasizes the importance of asking good questions to foster creativity and innovation. He suggests that leaders should encourage their teams to experiment and reflect on their processes, ultimately creating a culture that supports and rewards innovative efforts.

🌈 Conclusion: Innovation for Everyone

In conclusion, Braden reinforces the idea that innovation is accessible to everyone and involves making incremental, intentional changes. He advises listeners not to feel pressured to be the smartest or to have all the answers but to keep moving forward, learning from their attempts, and applying those lessons to future endeavors.

Keywords

💡Innovation

Innovation refers to the process of translating an idea or invention into a good or service that creates value or for which customers will pay. In the video, Richard emphasizes that innovation is not just for geniuses but accessible to everyone, and it involves debunking myths and understanding that it's a process that requires hard work and persistence, not just a 'Eureka' moment.

💡Creativity

Creativity is the use of imagination or original ideas to produce something new and valuable. The script discusses how creativity is often misunderstood as the ability to create art, but it's more broadly about solving problems through imaginative thinking. Richard's work aims to change people's relationship with creativity, making it more inclusive.

💡Design Thinking

Design thinking is a problem-solving approach that encourages empathy, experimentation, and iteration. It is one of the methodologies discussed in the video, which Richard explains as encompassing a set of mindsets crucial for innovation. It's a structured process that helps in understanding and creatively addressing user needs.

💡Myths

Myths, in the context of the video, refer to common misconceptions about innovation, such as the belief in the 'lone genius' or the 'overnight success.' Richard seeks to debunk these myths to show that innovation is a more democratic and gradual process, emphasizing the importance of hard work and continuous learning.

💡Mindsets

Mindsets are the perspectives or orientations that individuals adopt to approach challenges or tasks. Richard identifies six key mindsets for innovation: interactions, insights, ideas, iterations, inspiration, and implications. These mindsets guide individuals through the innovation process, from understanding a problem to bringing a solution to life.

💡Imagination

Imagination is the ability to form mental images or concepts of things that are not present. In the video, it is described as the foundation for both creativity and innovation. It is the capacity to envision something that does not exist and is a critical component in solving problems and creating new ideas.

💡Incremental Process

An incremental process is one that involves small, gradual steps towards a goal. Richard discusses the importance of embracing an incremental process in innovation, rather than expecting immediate or overnight success. This approach allows for continuous refinement and learning.

💡Leadership

Leadership in the context of the video is about fostering an environment where creativity and innovation can thrive. It involves setting clear goals, empowering teams, and being open to new ideas. The script mentions that leaders should embrace ambiguity and change their relationship with failure to encourage innovation.

💡Ambiguity

Ambiguity refers to a state of uncertainty or lack of clarity. Richard talks about the importance for leaders and innovators to be comfortable with ambiguity, as it is a natural part of the creative process. Embracing ambiguity allows for exploration and the potential for new discoveries.

💡Failure

Failure, as discussed in the video, is an integral part of the innovation process. It is not something to be feared but rather a learning opportunity. Richard differentiates between productive failure, which leads to learning and improvement, and unproductive failure, which does not contribute to progress.

💡Inspiration

Inspiration in the video is associated with the mindset of storytelling and narrative. It is about articulating ideas in a way that engages others and enrolls them in the innovation process. Inspiration is crucial for gaining support and collaboration, which are essential for bringing innovative ideas to fruition.

💡Implications

Implications refer to the possible consequences of an action or decision. In the context of innovation, understanding the implications means considering the broader effects that an innovation might have on society, the environment, or other areas. Richard uses the example of social media algorithms to illustrate the importance of considering unintended consequences.

Highlights

Richard Braden, an instructor at Stanford D school, discusses his upcoming book 'Innovation is', aiming to make innovation accessible to everyone.

Braden emphasizes that anyone can be creative and innovative, dispelling the myth that it requires a special genius.

His book outlines six key mindsets necessary for innovation, including interactions, insights, ideas, iterations, inspiration, and implications.

Braden explains the importance of embracing ambiguity and being comfortable with not knowing as part of the innovation process.

He distinguishes creativity as the ability to envision and solve problems, while innovation involves creating something new and bringing it to the world.

Braden discusses the myths about innovation, such as the overnight success story, and stresses the reality of hard work and persistence.

He highlights the need for leaders to foster a culture of innovation by rewarding experimentation and embracing failure as a learning process.

Braden suggests that innovation can be cultivated by starting with simple tools and methodologies, gradually building up to more complex projects.

He emphasizes the importance of storytelling and narrative in inspiring others to join and support innovative projects.

Braden discusses the role of speed in innovation, advocating for intentional and thoughtful progress over mere speed.

He encourages leaders to ask good questions that promote deep thinking and reflection among team members.

Braden shares an example of a CEO who changed his approach to innovation, leading to significant company growth.

He explains how design thinking is one of many methodologies that align with the mindsets necessary for innovation.

Braden stresses that innovation is not an all-or-nothing process and that even small, incremental changes can be impactful.

He advises against waiting for a 'Eureka' moment, instead promoting a continuous, iterative approach to problem-solving.

Braden concludes by reiterating that innovation is for everyone and involves consistently and intentionally moving towards problem-solving.

Transcripts

welcome to another episode of Mastery

talks today we're glad to have Richard

Cox Braden back with us Richard is an

instructor at Stanford D school he's

lecturing at Stanford and Harvard on

design thinking creative leadership and

Innovation Richard's upcoming book

Innovation is promises to make

Innovation accessible to everyone let's

explore his insights on how we can all

harness the power of our creativity

Richard welcome I'm glad let this uh

conversation keeps going on because we

previously hosted Richard in person for

our community at Stanford where we had

an enriching discussion about Innovation

and creative leadership now it's great

to continue this conversation and share

your insights with Mastery talk

listeners Richard you know how we value

your work it's not the first time and we

hope not the last time we are talking

with you and we're thrilled to have you

back with us great I'm I'm really happy

to be here thanks for having me let's

start with your upcoming book Innovation

is what uh inspired you to write this

book and what you hope to achieve with

it yeah so after about almost 20 years

now of teaching creativity and

innovation in a variety of different

ways I had yet to run across a person

who could not do it

CEOs and Executives primary secondary

high school teachers middle managers

college students both undergrads and

grads that I teach lawyers Engineers

Finance marketing some of the best ones

are the primary to high school

students and as a consultant and an

educator I have also walked into

hundreds of rooms and asked thousands

upon thousands of people are you

creative and only a couple of hands will

go up each time

which makes me so sad because I know it

to not be true and that's how people sit

and hold themselves and

so uh I typically will start a class or

working with a group with an exercise

and they do some drawing and then they

draw collaboratively together and you

can watch the smiles come up and can

watch the the the the people change in

the room and after that exercise most of

the hands will grow up when I ask it

again now it's not that I am an amazing

teacher I mean I am an amazing teacher

but it's not just me that's doing it

what we did was change their definition

and their relationship to what

creativity

means that same thing is true for

Innovation people think that it's

something that it isn't and so there are

all these myths about what Innovation is

or should be and there are all these

myths about an innovator and who that is

like a a lone genius off that has this

Eureka moment that just happens and the

reality is that that is just never the

case those things hold people back from

even trying to do Innovation and so

they're waiting for someone to help or

to give them permission and we wanted to

address that because Innovation is for

everyone so that's why we wrote the book

that's fantastic we really can't wait uh

to read the full book but meanwhile can

you tell us how do you plan to make

Innovation accessible to

everyone right we did a lot of research

into all of the design and Innovation

and creativity Frameworks that we could

find and we keep adding more in we've

got well over 80 maybe over 100 by now

and we go in and code them for what are

the things that they are doing what are

the mindsets that make up that process

that approach that

methodology what we've come up with is

there are only six and so there's really

only six different mindsets you need to

take on and mindsets are just a way a

perspective of looking at the world and

so all of these methodologies are trying

to get at the same thing which sort of

means they're all okay to use there

isn't the one right one you don't have

to pick find the right one go to the

right place get the right

certificate it it's something that

everyone has access to and so by

starting with a really simple way to

view things you can go out and get tools

then from any toolkit that's out there

something from open source a proprietary

thing that you got from over here and

you can blend and use them all if you

understand how you're going about doing

it so if if you're new to Innovation

this gives you an easy way and helps you

get started on the right path by giving

you a guide to all the material that's

out there there's so much information if

you've been trying to innovate but it

hasn't gone quite right I think this

book can help to give you an idea of

where it has gone off track and how to

get back on track if you're experiencing

some impostor syndrome like I don't have

the authorization or who am I to

innovate Innovation is reassures people

that you are in the right place and that

you can do this it's giving permission

and if you have been successful at doing

Innovation Innovation is can help you

understand better what you're doing and

continue to improve so from a growth

mindset perspective we all including

myself are always learning more about

how creativity and Innovation work and

how we can do it in a better way so

that's part of how we destroy or get rid

of clear away these myths that people

hold earlier today you mentioned that

it's important to distinguish creativity

and Innovation can you elaborate on the

difference between the two for our

listeners so for a long time I taught a

class called creativity and Innovation

because they're very tightly tied uh I

was teaching at Stanford with uh

Professor Tina seelig and uh she wanted

because we teach creativity and

Innovation people would sometimes ask

what is the difference we get this

question from students students ask the

best questions the ones that you're not

prepared for and don't necessarily have

a good answer and so she went out and

wrote a whole book on that and I like

the frame that she uses imagination is

our ability to Envision something that

doesn't exist like you can imagine a

plate of cookies in front of you now

your cookies might not look like my

cookies but we both can see a plate of

cookies we all have the ability to use

our imagination

if you use your imagination to solve a

problem that's the definition she uses

for

creativity and if you define it that way

it's a lot more inclusive a lot of

people when I ask for the hands to go up

they think can I create a work of art

can I make a

Picasso that's a form of creativity but

creativity is really solving a problem

by using your imagination and imagining

new things now in the world of Art

that problem you're solving is how do I

communicate an esoteric human quality

like grief or anguish or love or joy in

a way that I can pass it on to others

that's the problem they're solving by

creating a work of art so that's going

to look different but when you are

working on a problem that you want to

solve creatively it's going to look

differently if you're not making art the

problem is

different separate from that inov

is using creativity to create something

is new to the world mixing and matching

blending new things together or coming

up with uh a so many different ideas

that one of them is new and we haven't

seen before doesn't mean it's a good

idea but Innovation is coming with lots

of different ideas that are new and then

uh she goes on to say that

entrepreneurship is taking that and

making it exist in the world because

there is a lot Beyond I have a good idea

if if it just took the ideas then people

all across the country would be

millionaires because everybody has great

ideas on how to solve their problems

every day but then they don't take that

step to go and make it and realize it in

the world

so that's kind of stratifying from

imagination to entrepreneurship and I

think what uh Innovation is really

focuses on is how do you identify and

frame the problem that you're really

looking for and come up with different

ways test it and then prepare to enact

it in the world right I I love that

distinction and you know I'm thinking it

is obvious that uh creativity can exist

without Innovation and we can see that

by talking with people who have flry of

ideas every day but never um execute

them right uh so while creativity is uh

highly important in business settings it

is such an abstract uh process that

works uh best in structured and uh

that's how we got design thinking

methods

right I'm thinking what is the

difference between uh how how does uh

Innovation is augment or differs from

design thinking method sure design

thinking and all of its sort of various

forms was one of the methodologies that

we used in our research

encoded and design thinking is a

structure that that started back in the

50s and was popularized really in the

early uh the late 90s and early

thousands um by The hosel plutner

Institute of Design at Stanford it also

was the foundation of the design firm

idio that a lot of people have heard of

and has gotten a lot of notoriety so

that

methodology encompasses these same set

of

mindsets um that Innovation is does so

it is just one of many different forms

and it is a great toolkit and there are

a lot of really good learning resources

and so I would encourage people to dig

into that and then stop short of that is

the way or the only way that there are

others and you don't have to be so

locked in a lot of a lot of people or a

lot of organizations try to create their

proprietary method so that they can sort

of protect and sell it but really they

are all working in the same way and

design thinking has these core

principles of of getting out and doing

interactions with people really

understanding the world and learning

from others um it has ideation and

creating lots of different

ideas many times it is taught in a way

that is a sequence like here are the

steps that you take as a process and

even the uh the D school at Stanford has

moved away from that to have the design

abilities it's a different way of

explaining it than the mindsets but

that's really what it is it's the

abilities you need to be able to do this

thing called creativity and

Innovation so I think it matches up

really well I think actually ability

sounds like

non-inclusive uh word right so like I

like when we talk about ability I almost

immediately feel that like someone has

this ability and someone does not right

like like a trait or uh like not a skill

but the ability so yeah but we'll get to

that later so earlier you mentioned six

mindset crucial for Innovation can you

share what these mindsets are sure so

interactions is the first one we Nam

them all with eyes to try to make them

easier to remember but interactions is

the first one and that is getting out

into the world and interacting with

people uh so that you can learn about a

problem and learn about the needs of

other people insights is the process of

taking all those conversations and uh

pulling it together so you can

understand what's really going on and

have an insight into what's the problem

you're trying to solve ideas mindset is

about generating an avalanche of ideas

thousands and thousands of them so that

you can pick through and find the ones

that really work that is the iterations

mindset going out and testing ideas

being the idea person is not all that

valuable if all you can do is come up

with ideas you have to get it out and

test it and see and you have to be able

to hold those ideas Loosely um a lot of

people come up with an idea it's it's

their idea they take ownership they

protect it it it turns it into something

else if you hold them really Loosely

like here's one I could come up with a

bunch more let's see if it works you can

get better feedback and you can let go

of those ideas that really aren't going

to work they're a great idea they just

don't

work um inspiration is

about enacting storytelling and

narrative to get an idea and develop it

you have to enroll others you have to

enroll clients or customers Partners uh

people to join the team and be on the

project potentially investors or funders

you need to be able to articulate it in

a way that makes sense and inspiration

helps to inspire others to understand

what you're what your idea you're going

for and what problem you're solving and

then implications is a really important

one there are a lot of very good

ideas but when you actually take that

idea and put it out into the world it

can have unintended consequences now

hopefully if you designed well you have

all the intended consequences that you

want but then there are unintended

consequences for instance I won't

pinpoint any particular one but if you

look at social media social media has

algorithms

that had things like a like button and

if they had been thinking ahead about

what are the implications of that a like

button means that you change the

algorithm and tune to get the things

that you like which means you start to

eliminate other ideas and soon you've

created an echo chamber and that Echo

chamber leads to no nude ideas and

polarization which is now really uh

pervasive in our society we like you see

it every

day you could think ahead and and

realize that allowing an algorithm to do

that would look ahead and I like to

think that they didn't do that exercise

I like to think that they it was an

unintended consequence of them doing

things the way they are because I

believe in the goodness of people but

I'm not convinced that it wasn't a

profit driven

motive so those are the implications

that's the implications mindset is

looking at if we do this how will we do

it and what will happen after that uh

Richard how do you suggest cultivate

these mindsets and behaviors for leaders

and their teams we're really in writing

this book we're talking to three main

groups one is Business Leaders how do

you Foster Grassroots innovation in in

every Division and department and adopt

uh uh an innovation mindset and culture

we're also talking to the employees of

those leaders that are in businesses and

nonprofits and governments and schools

all the Frontline people to how do you

get past that impostor syndrome The Who

might to be an innovator to be able to

do what the leaders are now

asking and we're also speaking to

businesses and schools and graduates who

are getting people ready to go into that

Workforce so all three of those I think

work in

concert understanding that and where

people are is a key thing for Business

Leaders how you

reward uh give incentives to and act and

operate around creativity Innovation

might look different

than it did in more traditional styles

of management and Leadership there's a

quite a change that's happened in

leadership in the last 20 years with how

people operate and it still can go more

to encourage this so one is getting

really comfortable with

ambiguity and not comfortable so we can

sort of like grip really tightly and

make our way through the ambiguity until

we're back to the nice comfortable

Clarity but to Embrace and sit in

ambiguity in not knowing in being

curious and exploring and being

uncertain and in business with reports

and metrics and deadlines and everything

ambiguity can be challenging but as a

leader it's critical that you embrace

the benefit of people sitting in not

knowing in an

ambiguity another uh piece is you have

to get comfortable

with how your relationship to

failure what kinds of failure there

there are because there

is failure that is stretching Beyond

trying to innovate come up with

something new no one has done it you

should not expect that you can do it

right the first time if you are trying

to stretch and really innovate and so

you have to get comfortable with the

first few tries are not going to work

and maybe the first hundred tries are

not going to work there's the iconic

story of the invention of the light bulb

and finding a thousand ways not to build

a light bulb that's what we're talking

about but let's not get confused by

failure is a good thing nobody is trying

to fail when they're innovating they are

trying hard to succeed but fall short a

few times as they go through and learn

and in science if you think about

running experiments the most interesting

things that happen is when something

unexpected happens when it doesn't go

the way you thought it would and in

there is the Discovery and the learning

and the understanding so thinking about

failure as a process of learning and

continuing to go to achieve the

goal there is a bad kind of failure so I

don't want to come across as there's no

failure and I think the whole world is

fantastic there's some bad failure and I

do it sometimes I miss an appointment I

just mess up with my calendar it's

failures of just executing on day-to-day

routine things I'm not trying to

innovate I don't I don't celebrate and

be like oh what a great failure I just

missed a

meeting uh that's that's not a good and

happy Innovation failure so that's what

I mean about your relationship to it I

try to succeed at everything I just give

some space for a learning process and

not getting it right the first time and

that is th those two ideas and it and

learning to change the relationship that

you have as a leader when failure

happens with your people if somebody

consistently is doing those execution

failures they need some feedback it

might need some some other actions that

go on but if you're asking them to

stretch when they come to you and say it

didn't work engaging with what did you

learn how do we where do we go from here

what is the right Next Step so you

demystify that nobody wants to present

the failure to the boss but if you can

encourage them to make those stretches

then they're going to discover

incredible things and you're going to

end up with people who have much more

agency they feel more permission they're

going to stretch farther and they will

start to amaze you with the things they

go off and do in fact I've got a great

story we worked with the CEO of a

Prestige luxury brand they make um

facial

products they explicitly for years did

not enter the market with any kind of

tools mechanics machines or equipment it

was kind of part of this this the fabric

of the company and the CEO really core

that we should not do that but after we

worked with them we taught them these

tools the CEO started espousing it he's

an amazing guy uh it the whole company

was really doing great things with

Innovation but a group on the side went

off and didn't an experiment and said if

we bring this tool in when we do our

sales our sales go up on the things that

aren't the tool by having it and they

brought the data back to him and said

this is what you told us to do and this

is what it says and it actually changed

that CEO he was comfortable enough to

trust the people the process that they

had done and that the data showed it was

the right thing to do and so a little

bit they entered into that

market so that's a great leadership and

Innovation story is to he teaches it

within the company not just to his

direct team but to everyone he'll take

somebody in and help them get on board

with this and then really live it and so

the whole company is comfortable and

will produce that and it turned out to

really be a bottom line benefit to the

company yeah thank you for that example

and um it felt like that group really

needed lots of agency to be able to

venture and uh start something that was

not considered um the general direction

for the company yeah so um one thing I

wanted to focus again on your book and

one of the section that we luckily were

able to check out H focuses on myths

about Innovation right can you discuss a

few and how they can be barriers uh to

innovate yeah there are a lot of myths

and I think the

media uh helps to encourage a lot of

those myths because they make for really

good stories like if you there are a lot

of movies out there about Silicon Valley

there are TV shows about Silicon Valley

that there's this overnight billionaire

the the kid in their dorm room that goes

out and they all of a sudden turn into

the next unicorn company and you can

only be Innovative in Silicon Valley of

course of course it's it's the only

place that it ever happens and the

problem with all of those media articles

and and sources is that they're very

Loosely based on the truth they're just

not full of

truth it's a great story and it plays

well well but uh they miss the years and

years of failure and trial and uh the

iterations that happened before that

overnight Epiphany

and it does happen fast don't get me

wrong after a lot of work getting there

once it takes hold and they really have

understood the need nailed the problem

got a solution that is widespread it can

spread incredibly quickly I mean take a

look at it was a little over 18 months

that chat GPT launched into the world

the penetration of of generative chat

has been incredible and it keeps moving

at a faster

Pace 30 years a 35 years ago in gra in

school I was working on AI it was the

same kind of things it has taken a long

time not none of this is really new but

all the pieces have come together to

have it come into the world in this new

way and so it is that traditional hockey

stick that you see but all those hockey

sticks that you see if you keep going

back to the left you'll see the very

long close to zero line on it so those

are the kind of myths that are

propagated and one of them that

overnight epiphany is that Innovation is

not hard work or not Innovation is hard

it is not hard it is hard work the

individual tools and things that you

need to

do don't take special degrees and

special training I mean you can get

special training in in some of those

areas but if you do it with diligence

repeatedly over and over you can get

there so

um conversely there is no such thing as

that big Eureka moment where someone has

the bright

idea right it's Innovation takes

continuous incremental iteration trial

error going out and uh interacting with

people trying something putting it in

front of more people it just takes a lot

of work so there is not just overnight I

thought of the idea that really just

doesn't happen so that's a couple of the

myths that uh we are trying to get away

from and give people permission in the

classes that I

teach especially toward the end of the

year for anybody that's graduating or

getting going out into the workforce we

get a lot of students that come up and

want to talk to us about like what

should I be doing and how H how do I go

get a job and how do I take this with me

if the company doesn't want to do it

and uh I think

the main thing that I start repeating as

we get toward the end of the semester is

you have to give yourself permission to

go and do this most of the time you're

not going to have someone come up and

say could you please start this new

process and here's your permission to go

and run with it that's a message for

leaders is if you can do that and

encourage people and set that culture

you're going to get more out of them but

there's a certain amount of you don't

have to say what you're doing you don't

have to go off and uh start your big new

project you can just incorporate a

little bit of innovation into whatever

you're doing pick a tool or two that

might help you move things forward in

the work you're already doing and that

is a great thing to do but you have to

give yourself permission another one is

although it's easier now is to get out

of the office get out of your office

your home office and interact with other

people we so often think I have to sit

in my conference room in my home studio

on Zoom or uh or whatever video

conferencing and I have to come up with

the idea and if you engage other people

you give yourself permission to do

things that aren't the way that

everybody else is doing them then you

start to achieve those those differences

you you you have a lot more when you go

out and talk to someone come back and

say what I've heard from this group of

10 users is now that has a lot more

weight than just you in your opinion

it's uh really seductive this idea you

know the the idea that you can get all

the success that you dreamed about uh

one night but it can or usually lead to

unrealistic expectations and we recently

Juliana and I read the hbr article about

how this Uber moments or you knowa

moments how they overshadow the more

important matter of how an invention

reaches the

marketplace and they provide the example

of uh Thomas Edison and how he often

emphasized the importance of persistence

over you know random

inspiration and uh this famous quote

that we left that 1% is inspiration and

99% of

perspiration yes yeah that's how he

highlighted this similarly Thomas Watson

Jr of IBM struggled for years to

transition from Punch Cards to computers

right same article yeah because Yan and

I read them as we were getting ready for

discussions like this and he drew

inspiration from the R Brothers right

who took years of painstaking effort

after their initial flight to prove

sustained flight to the world yeah I I I

love all of those stories and I think

that is what

is that's what should be taught in all

entrepreneurship stories I think if you

interview most entrepreneurs a few years

in they largely will say if I knew what

it would take to get here I would have

never started this so there's a little

bit of this optimism that I think you

need to go off and tread A New Path but

I think the reality is they would have

because they did choose that path and

they kept going and it is that

persistence I mean for us we say it's

not hard it's hard work it's this the

same thing it takes dedication and

persistence to move forward to come up

with something is really new it's easy

to come up with something

that is fast is easy to do but it may

not be the best thing and the the the

ideas the products where you instantly

recognize and say oh I need to get one

of those those are the ones that have

done all of the hard work to really

understand the need and what's really

going on and you don't have to be the

first

one that's another myth is that first

mover advantage and you have to be the

first to the

market apple is famous for being almost

last to the market and they first

products not being their best products

they have a design ethic inside that

really they keep iterating and refining

and making it better and better and I

think it you can't really question the

success of their model so how do you

suggest to shift from waiting for that

Uber moment to embracing and uh

incremental

process yeah I think

one of the things that's intoxicating I

think you said intoxicating about those

overnight epiphanies is it means boy are

you super

smart and I think you have to let go of

that and have humility I think design

requires humility you have to realize

that you are not that important that the

other people around you and in front of

you that you're designing for and with

are the important people and that's a

that's a lesson I actually learned from

my side career of Performing improv when

you're on stage with somebody the most

important person is the person opposite

you how do you make them look good and

serve them and that same thing is true

in design how do you design for these

other people understand their needs

forget about what you know take a

beginner's mindset and get curious and

learn and understand that is a critical

piece for or going about you can design

for yourself and if that's all you want

to do you can call that Innovation as

well but I think if you want to design

for other people first you have to take

a step of

humility and the other thing is I think

you need to set the bar Lower to start

don't shoot for a moonshot on everything

you do and that's the only thing and you

have to get there in this one giant leap

that's the hardest part to be able to

move step by step not seeing and not you

know seeking for the uh for seeeing the

whole picture absolutely well and that

is navigating this huge sea of ambiguity

because you don't know if you can get

there you don't even know exactly where

you're headed and you still have to keep

moving forward so there's a lot of grit

that it takes to move forward to that

and persistence

and then I think you have to like we

were saying about the moonshot the moon

to get to the moon took Decades of small

steps to get there and we don't need a

moonshot for everything like a lot of

things a roof shot is great and can make

a big difference within a company if

everybody in the company had one roof

shop for a year per year it would

transform every company that adopted

that it can be really powerful and

so a lot of what holds people back you

mentioned design thinking there are a

lot of people that go to take and learn

design thinking in courses and boot

camps and things like that and there is

this moment of disillusionment that

happens because you nobody has the brand

new project that you can start from

scratch and build a team I mean a few

people do Lucky few people but most of

them don't and then if you can't go and

do all those things that you were told

then you're kind of stuck and you can't

do it what we're saying with Innovation

is is you can do a little and doing a

little is better and you move things

forward a little bit more and then you

can add some more in and if you really

need a moonshot or something that's

really good you do what those Elite

design firms are doing and they are

diligently doing these every day all day

and putting in all the work that's

needed to get there but if you want to

just improve your process your product

your problem that you're solving a

little bit you can just do a little bit

and see how it goes and that's that give

yourself permission to try it and it can

be for some people really addicting

where you I mean that in a very loose

sense of like it's engaging it's

interesting you get something really

good after a lot of hard work and you're

like that was great let me do a little

more and so you can ease into this

process it's not an all or nothing there

isn't a set of steps you have to do them

all you're partway through a project

jump into some iterations and do a

couple of tests if that's all you do

we're still happy and you're still

Innovation is as far as we're concerned

you might not be an innovator you might

not you know be honoring your design

thinking certificate but you are being

Innovation is and that's why is is on

there is it's a little bit softer genter

gentler entry in to have more of it in

the world because it doesn't have to be

All or Nothing Richard I'm also curious

what is the role of speed in uh

Innovation process in your thinking

because we uh recently had this

conversation with Hai R we've discussed

with Hai who is um you know who wrote

the book about operational excellence

and how to scale uh excellence and how

to avoid friction and how friction can

be good and bad and uh we got this

Insight from conversation with him that

even startups or whatever Innovation you

create it's not necessarily you have to

you know double down on a speed because

uh sometimes startups and Innovation

needs to be slowed down by friction and

by that it can save uh the company from

your you know lawsuits or any other

problems that

creates yeah what you think about this

yeah I I like the idea of for me slowing

down I think equates to stopping to be

intentional and thoughtful about not

what you do next not just go fast break

things just do stuff nothing about what

Innovation is is is about just doing

more it's about being really careful and

thoughtful about what is the thing I

what's the question I need to ask next

how can I find that answer out where

have I

seen something like this before that I

can draw on to move it forward and so it

doesn't mean you can't move fast or get

a lot of things done it is hard work and

you can do it in you know a series of

Rapid Sprints to get there

but I think it's not speed

above in intention and

thoughtfulness so the other thing I

think is we all have the real world

around us with deadlines with clients

and deadlines with funders and deadlines

you have to be able to move progress and

so for me speed also speaks to the scale

or scope so you can go faster to a

smaller piece and then do a series of

pieces and that's a little bit more

iterative model so I think you can move

fast I think you do need to break things

I just think you need more than that and

you need to be careful and thoughtful

about how you're getting there and then

give yourself enough

structure that you can move and keep

pace and keep that

persistence uh going no structure is

actually it makes it harder you can swim

and wallow in ambiguity you can do fun

interesting things for a long time in

the name of

creativity but I think it's not doing

Innovation at that point it's

enjoyable but I think you need to also

keep things moving forward with that

intention so about through line and for

me the analogy that I like being a

musician I've played classical and I

have played Jazz we didn't know that

yeah how come we didn't know

that well uh I I don't know I I I uh

um with classical music every note is

written the entire Symphony plays

together with Precision it is beautiful

but the creativity happens by the

composer in orchest UST rating that

there is creativity in the musicians but

it's everything is prescribed in there

structure and for me that aligns with a

more traditional world and a more

traditional way that companies went

about problem solving even back to the

early days of developing software with

what they called the waterfall model you

get requirements then you develop a

version it it's all very sequenced jazz

on the other hand everyone still stays

together but it's very loose you have

the chord structure and that's all the

notes are not prescribed in most

cases and so if everybody follows the

guide and stays in their Lane everything

they play will blend together but it's

new it's different it's interesting

every time and there's a lot of creative

freedom that isn't afforded it doesn't

I'm I don't want to denigrate I loved

classical music and I loved playing it

it's an act of precision and execution

and jazz is a different different form

of it but for me that's the creativity

that happens in Innovation and design is

you have a whole team with a rough set

of Sprints and objectives and everybody

is working together to come up with

something that's magical and that's

where I think Innovation can happen I

really love that analogy and uh I love

that um I feel like it's such a great

metaphor for creativity music um it's

perfect perfect so let's dive into

creative leadership what does it mean to

be a creative leader can you share an

example of a leader who exemplifies

creative leadership and I think the

example that we talked about the luxury

brand is a really good one

of empowering and educating your people

of creating the conditions where the

principles the mindsets that we're

talking about in Innovation is are

rewarded

I have heard of uh we've had clients

that they will have award ceremonies and

they will reward failure you could have

failure Awards everybody has rewards for

successes but that just means the bar

keeps getting higher you have to do it

right but people that have had lots of

iterations and lots of failures can be

rewarded as well as long as that is on

the way too and there is a success in

there as well so I think es and

experiments being rewarded and

incentives for that can be really

helpful

also

um I think you have

to let go of control that humility that

I talked about I think has to start with

leadership

also command and control I am the expert

I know more I have been there I have

done that I will distribute the

assignments to you to go go and do I

think is not the way of

innovation it it's not the way of a a

lot of places even the military has

gotten away from that command and

control you still respect the the

hierarchy and the authority there but

things like the commander's intent where

here's the goal that we're going to set

but on the ground when you are there and

doing your job you might have to modify

the plan to achieve the same goal and I

think that is the style that you really

want to do you want to set out strong

goals encourage and nurture people move

things out of their way help them to try

to reflect on what they're doing to

understand where they could go another

way jump in and help roll up your

sleeves to help them achieve what

they're trying to do is more the style

of leadership that is going to Foster

Innovation really creating that as a

culture yeah as you put it uh be right

be uh be brief be gone doesn't work in

leadership anymore it doesn't not if you

want an innovation culture there are

companies organizations culture uh

company cultures that that might be the

perfect thing but that is not going to

Foster Innovation and creativity richer

can you share some practical steps uh

that leaders can take to enhance

creativity in problem solving I think

one practical thing that leaders can do

to help Foster some creativity and some

Innovation is to ask really good

questions go to your team the team lead

to your people ask them how could you

better understand what you're working on

or who else might you need to include to

help bring in a different perspective to

the project um how could you

try how could you experiment to try out

the idea you're thinking of to see if

it's going to work in the world those

kind of questions that make people

really start to think take that

intentional step what's the core thing

that you need to solve next in your

project so I think being inquisitive

you're going to help people get

into thinking about how they're thinking

metacognitive reflection is what we

would call that how do you help them to

start to think through what they're

doing more deeply so that they can come

up with the solutions on their own I

think that is a one very easy practical

thing that leaders can do this has been

an incredibly excital conversation and

as we wrap up what's the one key

takeaway you want our listeners to

remember about creative leadership and

Innovation and about your

work I think Innovation is for

everyone anyone can can do it you just

have to start with something think about

what you could do try something see how

it works and then learn from

that and don't put the pressure on

yourself that you have to do at all or

be the smart one you just have to

keep moving forward intentionally

chipping away at that problem that's

where it really happens is by

consistently intentionally moving

forward with what you do next thank you

so much Richard this has been such a

wonderful conversation and we can't wait

to see your book uh in a bookstore

thanks yeah me too or in my mailbox yeah

yeah sign book in my mailbox that's what

I wait I can't wait to see it in a

Google

doc then we'll get it out to everybody

so step by step incremental changes that

is right that is

right thank you both so much I I so

enjoy interacting with you and uh both

the the last one and this one and I'm

looking forward to the the me to we the

next one that wraps up our conversation

with Richard Braden today we explored

the essence of creativity and Innovation

debunk common mys and discussed how to

cultivate an Innovative mindset one key

takeaway is that Innovation is for

everyone and it's about consistently and

intentionally moving towards problem

solving if you want to support Mastery

talks head over to patreon to

patreon.com talks and join our community

to get an access to exclusive giveaway

and some extra perks subscribe to

Mastery talks on your favorite podcast

app to stay up to date we'd love to hear

your thoughts feel free to share your

questions in comments or just write Us

in email at teammy talks.com we'd love

to know how this episode affected you

thank you for tuning in and until next

time keep innovating and creating