Creativity and Innovation Aren't Exactly What You Think They Are

Mastery Talks
23 Jul 202448:39

Summary

TLDRIn this episode of Mastery, Richard Cox Braden, a Stanford D school instructor, shares insights on creativity and innovation. Debunking myths, he emphasizes that innovation is accessible to everyone and not just the domain of geniuses. Braden discusses six key mindsets crucial for innovation and the importance of embracing ambiguity and learning from failure. He advocates for a culture that encourages incremental progress and highlights the role of creative leadership in fostering an innovative environment.

Takeaways

  • 📚 Richard Braden's upcoming book 'Innovation' aims to make innovation accessible to everyone by debunking myths and providing a framework for understanding and applying creativity and innovation.
  • 🧠 Braden emphasizes that creativity and innovation are not exclusive to certain individuals or roles, but are inherent in everyone, and can be cultivated through practice and mindset shifts.
  • 🎨 Creativity is defined as using imagination to solve problems, while innovation involves applying creativity to create something new and bringing it into existence.
  • 🤔 Braden identifies six key mindsets crucial for innovation: Interactions, Insights, Ideas, Iterations, Inspiration, and Implications, each focusing on different aspects of the innovation process.
  • 🌐 Interactions involve engaging with the world and learning from others, while Insights involve synthesizing information to understand problems deeply.
  • 💡 The Ideas mindset encourages generating a multitude of ideas, with the understanding that not all will be successful, but the process of ideation is essential.
  • 🔄 Iterations involve testing ideas and being open to feedback and adjustments, highlighting the importance of flexibility and adaptability in the innovation process.
  • 📈 Inspiration is about storytelling and enacting narratives to engage others in the innovation process, emphasizing the role of communication in gaining support and collaboration.
  • 🔮 The Implications mindset focuses on considering the potential consequences of innovations, both intended and unintended, to ensure responsible and thoughtful innovation.
  • 🚀 Braden encourages leaders to foster an innovation culture by embracing ambiguity, rewarding experimentation and failure as part of the learning process, and empowering teams to take initiative.

Q & A

  • What is the main theme of Richard Braden's upcoming book 'Innovation'?

    -The main theme of Richard Braden's book 'Innovation' is to make innovation accessible to everyone by debunking myths about innovation and providing insights on how anyone can harness their creativity.

  • Why does Richard Braden feel sad when he asks a class if they are creative and only a few hands go up?

    -Richard Braden feels sad because he knows that everyone is creative, but people often don't recognize or believe in their own creativity due to societal or self-imposed limitations.

  • What are the six mindsets that Richard Braden identifies as crucial for innovation?

    -The six mindsets are interactions, insights, ideas, iterations, inspiration, and implications.

  • How does Richard Braden define creativity?

    -Richard Braden defines creativity as the use of one's imagination to solve a problem, which is more inclusive than just creating a work of art.

  • What is the difference between creativity and innovation as explained by Richard Braden?

    -Creativity is the use of imagination to solve problems, while innovation is applying creativity to create something new to the world and making it exist, often involving entrepreneurship.

  • How does Richard Braden describe the process of innovation in his book?

    -Richard Braden describes the process of innovation as one that involves six different mindsets and is not about a single 'Eureka' moment but rather continuous incremental iteration and learning.

  • What is the role of failure in the innovation process according to Richard Braden?

    -According to Richard Braden, failure is a part of the learning process in innovation. It is not something to be celebrated, but it should be seen as a necessary step towards achieving the goal, provided it is not due to routine execution errors.

  • How can leaders foster innovation within their organizations?

    -Leaders can foster innovation by embracing ambiguity, being comfortable with failure as a learning process, and encouraging their teams to take risks and iterate on ideas.

  • What are some common myths about innovation that Richard Braden addresses in his book?

    -Some common myths include the belief in an overnight epiphany, the necessity of being a lone genius, and the idea that innovation only happens in places like Silicon Valley.

  • What is the importance of storytelling and narrative in the innovation process as discussed by Richard Braden?

    -Storytelling and narrative are important in innovation because they help to inspire and enroll others in your vision. It is a way to articulate your idea in a way that makes sense and motivates people to join and support your project.

  • How does Richard Braden suggest individuals give themselves permission to innovate?

    -Richard Braden suggests that individuals should start by innovating within their current work, incorporating small changes and testing ideas without the pressure of having to make a significant impact immediately.

Outlines

00:00

📚 Introduction to Richard Braden's Insights on Innovation

Richard Braden, an instructor at Stanford D school, discusses his upcoming book 'Innovation' aimed at making innovation accessible to everyone. He emphasizes the importance of creativity in various professional fields and shares his experiences teaching creativity and innovation, highlighting the common misconception that only a select few can be creative. Braden's approach to debunking myths about innovation and creativity involves changing people's definitions and relationships with these concepts.

05:01

🚀 Making Innovation Accessible Through Frameworks

The conversation delves into Braden's research on design and innovation frameworks, identifying six key mindsets necessary for innovation. He explains the importance of having a simple view of innovation to utilize various tools effectively. The book 'Innovation' serves as a guide to navigate the vast amount of information available on the subject, helping those who have struggled with innovation to get back on track and reassuring people that they have the capacity to innovate.

10:01

🤔 Distinguishing Creativity from Innovation

Braden and the host explore the difference between creativity and innovation, using the framework provided by Professor Tina Seelig. They define imagination as the ability to envision something that doesn't exist, creativity as using imagination to solve problems, and innovation as applying creativity to create something new. Entrepreneurship is presented as the next step, making ideas exist in the world.

15:02

🔍 The Role of Design Thinking in Innovation

The discussion highlights design thinking as a structured methodology that encompasses the same set of mindsets as innovation. Braden explains that design thinking is just one of many methodologies and emphasizes the importance of not being locked into a single approach. He encourages exploring various resources and understanding the core principles of design thinking to foster creativity and innovation.

20:03

🌟 Cultivating Innovation Mindsets: Interactions and Insights

Braden outlines the first two of the six innovation mindsets: interactions and insights. Interactions involve engaging with the world and learning from others, while insights require synthesizing information to understand problems deeply. He stresses the importance of these mindsets for innovation and suggests that embracing ambiguity and redefining the relationship with failure can help cultivate them.

25:05

🔄 Embracing Failure and Encouraging Innovation

The conversation continues with the importance of embracing failure as a part of the innovation process. Braden differentiates between productive failure that leads to learning and unproductive failure that stems from not executing routine tasks. He encourages leaders to foster a culture where failure is seen as an opportunity for growth and innovation.

30:07

🛍️ Leadership and Innovation: Case Study of a Luxury Brand

Braden shares a story of a luxury brand CEO who, after learning new innovation tools, allowed his team to experiment with a new approach that contradicted the company's previous stance. The successful outcome of this experiment led to a change in company policy, illustrating the power of leadership in fostering innovation and the importance of being open to new ideas.

35:08

💡 Debunking Myths About Innovation

The discussion addresses common myths about innovation, such as the overnight success story and the Eureka moment. Braden emphasizes that innovation is a result of hard work, persistence, and continuous iteration. He encourages people to give themselves permission to innovate and to incorporate innovative practices into their existing work.

40:13

🎯 Incremental Innovation and the Role of Humility

Braden suggests that humility is key to embracing incremental innovation. He advises setting realistic expectations and taking small steps towards innovation. The idea is to focus on making continuous improvements rather than aiming for grand, moonshot innovations in every endeavor.

45:14

🎶 The Analogy of Music and Innovation

In this segment, Braden draws an analogy between classical and jazz music to explain the different approaches to innovation. Classical music represents a structured and precise process, while jazz symbolizes creativity within a loose framework, allowing for improvisation and collaboration. He relates this to the innovation process, where teams can work together with a shared understanding of objectives to create something new and valuable.

🛠️ Creative Leadership and Enhancing Problem Solving

The final paragraph focuses on the concept of creative leadership, where Braden emphasizes the importance of asking good questions to foster creativity and innovation. He suggests that leaders should encourage their teams to experiment and reflect on their processes, ultimately creating a culture that supports and rewards innovative efforts.

🌈 Conclusion: Innovation for Everyone

In conclusion, Braden reinforces the idea that innovation is accessible to everyone and involves making incremental, intentional changes. He advises listeners not to feel pressured to be the smartest or to have all the answers but to keep moving forward, learning from their attempts, and applying those lessons to future endeavors.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Innovation

Innovation refers to the process of translating an idea or invention into a good or service that creates value or for which customers will pay. In the video, Richard emphasizes that innovation is not just for geniuses but accessible to everyone, and it involves debunking myths and understanding that it's a process that requires hard work and persistence, not just a 'Eureka' moment.

💡Creativity

Creativity is the use of imagination or original ideas to produce something new and valuable. The script discusses how creativity is often misunderstood as the ability to create art, but it's more broadly about solving problems through imaginative thinking. Richard's work aims to change people's relationship with creativity, making it more inclusive.

💡Design Thinking

Design thinking is a problem-solving approach that encourages empathy, experimentation, and iteration. It is one of the methodologies discussed in the video, which Richard explains as encompassing a set of mindsets crucial for innovation. It's a structured process that helps in understanding and creatively addressing user needs.

💡Myths

Myths, in the context of the video, refer to common misconceptions about innovation, such as the belief in the 'lone genius' or the 'overnight success.' Richard seeks to debunk these myths to show that innovation is a more democratic and gradual process, emphasizing the importance of hard work and continuous learning.

💡Mindsets

Mindsets are the perspectives or orientations that individuals adopt to approach challenges or tasks. Richard identifies six key mindsets for innovation: interactions, insights, ideas, iterations, inspiration, and implications. These mindsets guide individuals through the innovation process, from understanding a problem to bringing a solution to life.

💡Imagination

Imagination is the ability to form mental images or concepts of things that are not present. In the video, it is described as the foundation for both creativity and innovation. It is the capacity to envision something that does not exist and is a critical component in solving problems and creating new ideas.

💡Incremental Process

An incremental process is one that involves small, gradual steps towards a goal. Richard discusses the importance of embracing an incremental process in innovation, rather than expecting immediate or overnight success. This approach allows for continuous refinement and learning.

💡Leadership

Leadership in the context of the video is about fostering an environment where creativity and innovation can thrive. It involves setting clear goals, empowering teams, and being open to new ideas. The script mentions that leaders should embrace ambiguity and change their relationship with failure to encourage innovation.

💡Ambiguity

Ambiguity refers to a state of uncertainty or lack of clarity. Richard talks about the importance for leaders and innovators to be comfortable with ambiguity, as it is a natural part of the creative process. Embracing ambiguity allows for exploration and the potential for new discoveries.

💡Failure

Failure, as discussed in the video, is an integral part of the innovation process. It is not something to be feared but rather a learning opportunity. Richard differentiates between productive failure, which leads to learning and improvement, and unproductive failure, which does not contribute to progress.

💡Inspiration

Inspiration in the video is associated with the mindset of storytelling and narrative. It is about articulating ideas in a way that engages others and enrolls them in the innovation process. Inspiration is crucial for gaining support and collaboration, which are essential for bringing innovative ideas to fruition.

💡Implications

Implications refer to the possible consequences of an action or decision. In the context of innovation, understanding the implications means considering the broader effects that an innovation might have on society, the environment, or other areas. Richard uses the example of social media algorithms to illustrate the importance of considering unintended consequences.

Highlights

Richard Braden, an instructor at Stanford D school, discusses his upcoming book 'Innovation is', aiming to make innovation accessible to everyone.

Braden emphasizes that anyone can be creative and innovative, dispelling the myth that it requires a special genius.

His book outlines six key mindsets necessary for innovation, including interactions, insights, ideas, iterations, inspiration, and implications.

Braden explains the importance of embracing ambiguity and being comfortable with not knowing as part of the innovation process.

He distinguishes creativity as the ability to envision and solve problems, while innovation involves creating something new and bringing it to the world.

Braden discusses the myths about innovation, such as the overnight success story, and stresses the reality of hard work and persistence.

He highlights the need for leaders to foster a culture of innovation by rewarding experimentation and embracing failure as a learning process.

Braden suggests that innovation can be cultivated by starting with simple tools and methodologies, gradually building up to more complex projects.

He emphasizes the importance of storytelling and narrative in inspiring others to join and support innovative projects.

Braden discusses the role of speed in innovation, advocating for intentional and thoughtful progress over mere speed.

He encourages leaders to ask good questions that promote deep thinking and reflection among team members.

Braden shares an example of a CEO who changed his approach to innovation, leading to significant company growth.

He explains how design thinking is one of many methodologies that align with the mindsets necessary for innovation.

Braden stresses that innovation is not an all-or-nothing process and that even small, incremental changes can be impactful.

He advises against waiting for a 'Eureka' moment, instead promoting a continuous, iterative approach to problem-solving.

Braden concludes by reiterating that innovation is for everyone and involves consistently and intentionally moving towards problem-solving.

Transcripts

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welcome to another episode of Mastery

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talks today we're glad to have Richard

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Cox Braden back with us Richard is an

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instructor at Stanford D school he's

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lecturing at Stanford and Harvard on

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design thinking creative leadership and

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Innovation Richard's upcoming book

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Innovation is promises to make

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Innovation accessible to everyone let's

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explore his insights on how we can all

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harness the power of our creativity

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Richard welcome I'm glad let this uh

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conversation keeps going on because we

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previously hosted Richard in person for

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our community at Stanford where we had

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an enriching discussion about Innovation

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and creative leadership now it's great

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to continue this conversation and share

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your insights with Mastery talk

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listeners Richard you know how we value

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your work it's not the first time and we

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hope not the last time we are talking

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with you and we're thrilled to have you

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back with us great I'm I'm really happy

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to be here thanks for having me let's

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start with your upcoming book Innovation

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is what uh inspired you to write this

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book and what you hope to achieve with

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it yeah so after about almost 20 years

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now of teaching creativity and

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innovation in a variety of different

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ways I had yet to run across a person

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who could not do it

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CEOs and Executives primary secondary

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high school teachers middle managers

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college students both undergrads and

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grads that I teach lawyers Engineers

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Finance marketing some of the best ones

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are the primary to high school

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students and as a consultant and an

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educator I have also walked into

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hundreds of rooms and asked thousands

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upon thousands of people are you

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creative and only a couple of hands will

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go up each time

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which makes me so sad because I know it

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to not be true and that's how people sit

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and hold themselves and

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so uh I typically will start a class or

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working with a group with an exercise

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and they do some drawing and then they

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draw collaboratively together and you

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can watch the smiles come up and can

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watch the the the the people change in

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the room and after that exercise most of

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the hands will grow up when I ask it

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again now it's not that I am an amazing

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teacher I mean I am an amazing teacher

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but it's not just me that's doing it

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what we did was change their definition

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and their relationship to what

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creativity

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means that same thing is true for

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Innovation people think that it's

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something that it isn't and so there are

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all these myths about what Innovation is

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or should be and there are all these

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myths about an innovator and who that is

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like a a lone genius off that has this

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Eureka moment that just happens and the

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reality is that that is just never the

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case those things hold people back from

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even trying to do Innovation and so

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they're waiting for someone to help or

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to give them permission and we wanted to

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address that because Innovation is for

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everyone so that's why we wrote the book

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that's fantastic we really can't wait uh

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to read the full book but meanwhile can

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you tell us how do you plan to make

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Innovation accessible to

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everyone right we did a lot of research

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into all of the design and Innovation

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and creativity Frameworks that we could

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find and we keep adding more in we've

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got well over 80 maybe over 100 by now

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and we go in and code them for what are

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the things that they are doing what are

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the mindsets that make up that process

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that approach that

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methodology what we've come up with is

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there are only six and so there's really

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only six different mindsets you need to

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take on and mindsets are just a way a

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perspective of looking at the world and

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so all of these methodologies are trying

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to get at the same thing which sort of

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means they're all okay to use there

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isn't the one right one you don't have

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to pick find the right one go to the

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right place get the right

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certificate it it's something that

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everyone has access to and so by

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starting with a really simple way to

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view things you can go out and get tools

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then from any toolkit that's out there

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something from open source a proprietary

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thing that you got from over here and

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you can blend and use them all if you

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understand how you're going about doing

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it so if if you're new to Innovation

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this gives you an easy way and helps you

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get started on the right path by giving

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you a guide to all the material that's

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out there there's so much information if

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you've been trying to innovate but it

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hasn't gone quite right I think this

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book can help to give you an idea of

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where it has gone off track and how to

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get back on track if you're experiencing

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some impostor syndrome like I don't have

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the authorization or who am I to

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innovate Innovation is reassures people

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that you are in the right place and that

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you can do this it's giving permission

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and if you have been successful at doing

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Innovation Innovation is can help you

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understand better what you're doing and

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continue to improve so from a growth

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mindset perspective we all including

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myself are always learning more about

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how creativity and Innovation work and

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how we can do it in a better way so

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that's part of how we destroy or get rid

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of clear away these myths that people

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hold earlier today you mentioned that

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it's important to distinguish creativity

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and Innovation can you elaborate on the

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difference between the two for our

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listeners so for a long time I taught a

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class called creativity and Innovation

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because they're very tightly tied uh I

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was teaching at Stanford with uh

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Professor Tina seelig and uh she wanted

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because we teach creativity and

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Innovation people would sometimes ask

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what is the difference we get this

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question from students students ask the

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best questions the ones that you're not

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prepared for and don't necessarily have

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a good answer and so she went out and

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wrote a whole book on that and I like

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the frame that she uses imagination is

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our ability to Envision something that

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doesn't exist like you can imagine a

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plate of cookies in front of you now

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your cookies might not look like my

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cookies but we both can see a plate of

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cookies we all have the ability to use

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our imagination

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if you use your imagination to solve a

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problem that's the definition she uses

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for

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creativity and if you define it that way

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it's a lot more inclusive a lot of

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people when I ask for the hands to go up

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they think can I create a work of art

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can I make a

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Picasso that's a form of creativity but

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creativity is really solving a problem

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by using your imagination and imagining

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new things now in the world of Art

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that problem you're solving is how do I

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communicate an esoteric human quality

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like grief or anguish or love or joy in

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a way that I can pass it on to others

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that's the problem they're solving by

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creating a work of art so that's going

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to look different but when you are

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working on a problem that you want to

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solve creatively it's going to look

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differently if you're not making art the

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problem is

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different separate from that inov

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is using creativity to create something

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is new to the world mixing and matching

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blending new things together or coming

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up with uh a so many different ideas

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that one of them is new and we haven't

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seen before doesn't mean it's a good

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idea but Innovation is coming with lots

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of different ideas that are new and then

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uh she goes on to say that

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entrepreneurship is taking that and

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making it exist in the world because

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there is a lot Beyond I have a good idea

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if if it just took the ideas then people

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all across the country would be

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millionaires because everybody has great

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ideas on how to solve their problems

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every day but then they don't take that

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step to go and make it and realize it in

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the world

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so that's kind of stratifying from

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imagination to entrepreneurship and I

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think what uh Innovation is really

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focuses on is how do you identify and

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frame the problem that you're really

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looking for and come up with different

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ways test it and then prepare to enact

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it in the world right I I love that

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distinction and you know I'm thinking it

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is obvious that uh creativity can exist

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without Innovation and we can see that

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by talking with people who have flry of

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ideas every day but never um execute

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them right uh so while creativity is uh

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highly important in business settings it

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is such an abstract uh process that

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works uh best in structured and uh

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that's how we got design thinking

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methods

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right I'm thinking what is the

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difference between uh how how does uh

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Innovation is augment or differs from

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design thinking method sure design

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thinking and all of its sort of various

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forms was one of the methodologies that

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we used in our research

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encoded and design thinking is a

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structure that that started back in the

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50s and was popularized really in the

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early uh the late 90s and early

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thousands um by The hosel plutner

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Institute of Design at Stanford it also

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was the foundation of the design firm

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idio that a lot of people have heard of

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and has gotten a lot of notoriety so

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that

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methodology encompasses these same set

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of

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mindsets um that Innovation is does so

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it is just one of many different forms

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and it is a great toolkit and there are

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a lot of really good learning resources

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and so I would encourage people to dig

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into that and then stop short of that is

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the way or the only way that there are

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others and you don't have to be so

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locked in a lot of a lot of people or a

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lot of organizations try to create their

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proprietary method so that they can sort

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of protect and sell it but really they

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are all working in the same way and

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design thinking has these core

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principles of of getting out and doing

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interactions with people really

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understanding the world and learning

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from others um it has ideation and

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creating lots of different

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ideas many times it is taught in a way

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that is a sequence like here are the

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steps that you take as a process and

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even the uh the D school at Stanford has

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moved away from that to have the design

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abilities it's a different way of

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explaining it than the mindsets but

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that's really what it is it's the

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abilities you need to be able to do this

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thing called creativity and

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Innovation so I think it matches up

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really well I think actually ability

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sounds like

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non-inclusive uh word right so like I

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like when we talk about ability I almost

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immediately feel that like someone has

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this ability and someone does not right

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like like a trait or uh like not a skill

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but the ability so yeah but we'll get to

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that later so earlier you mentioned six

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mindset crucial for Innovation can you

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share what these mindsets are sure so

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interactions is the first one we Nam

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them all with eyes to try to make them

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easier to remember but interactions is

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the first one and that is getting out

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into the world and interacting with

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people uh so that you can learn about a

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problem and learn about the needs of

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other people insights is the process of

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taking all those conversations and uh

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pulling it together so you can

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understand what's really going on and

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have an insight into what's the problem

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you're trying to solve ideas mindset is

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about generating an avalanche of ideas

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thousands and thousands of them so that

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you can pick through and find the ones

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that really work that is the iterations

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mindset going out and testing ideas

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being the idea person is not all that

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valuable if all you can do is come up

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with ideas you have to get it out and

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test it and see and you have to be able

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to hold those ideas Loosely um a lot of

play13:27

people come up with an idea it's it's

play13:29

their idea they take ownership they

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protect it it it turns it into something

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else if you hold them really Loosely

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like here's one I could come up with a

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bunch more let's see if it works you can

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get better feedback and you can let go

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of those ideas that really aren't going

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to work they're a great idea they just

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don't

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work um inspiration is

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about enacting storytelling and

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narrative to get an idea and develop it

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you have to enroll others you have to

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enroll clients or customers Partners uh

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people to join the team and be on the

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project potentially investors or funders

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you need to be able to articulate it in

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a way that makes sense and inspiration

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helps to inspire others to understand

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what you're what your idea you're going

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for and what problem you're solving and

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then implications is a really important

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one there are a lot of very good

play14:28

ideas but when you actually take that

play14:31

idea and put it out into the world it

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can have unintended consequences now

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hopefully if you designed well you have

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all the intended consequences that you

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want but then there are unintended

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consequences for instance I won't

play14:46

pinpoint any particular one but if you

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look at social media social media has

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algorithms

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that had things like a like button and

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if they had been thinking ahead about

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what are the implications of that a like

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button means that you change the

play15:02

algorithm and tune to get the things

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that you like which means you start to

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eliminate other ideas and soon you've

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created an echo chamber and that Echo

play15:10

chamber leads to no nude ideas and

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polarization which is now really uh

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pervasive in our society we like you see

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it every

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day you could think ahead and and

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realize that allowing an algorithm to do

play15:27

that would look ahead and I like to

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think that they didn't do that exercise

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I like to think that they it was an

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unintended consequence of them doing

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things the way they are because I

play15:37

believe in the goodness of people but

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I'm not convinced that it wasn't a

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profit driven

play15:43

motive so those are the implications

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that's the implications mindset is

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looking at if we do this how will we do

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it and what will happen after that uh

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Richard how do you suggest cultivate

play15:55

these mindsets and behaviors for leaders

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and their teams we're really in writing

play16:00

this book we're talking to three main

play16:02

groups one is Business Leaders how do

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you Foster Grassroots innovation in in

play16:08

every Division and department and adopt

play16:11

uh uh an innovation mindset and culture

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we're also talking to the employees of

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those leaders that are in businesses and

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nonprofits and governments and schools

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all the Frontline people to how do you

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get past that impostor syndrome The Who

play16:29

might to be an innovator to be able to

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do what the leaders are now

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asking and we're also speaking to

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businesses and schools and graduates who

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are getting people ready to go into that

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Workforce so all three of those I think

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work in

play16:43

concert understanding that and where

play16:45

people are is a key thing for Business

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Leaders how you

play16:51

reward uh give incentives to and act and

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operate around creativity Innovation

play16:58

might look different

play16:59

than it did in more traditional styles

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of management and Leadership there's a

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quite a change that's happened in

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leadership in the last 20 years with how

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people operate and it still can go more

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to encourage this so one is getting

play17:15

really comfortable with

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ambiguity and not comfortable so we can

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sort of like grip really tightly and

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make our way through the ambiguity until

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we're back to the nice comfortable

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Clarity but to Embrace and sit in

play17:30

ambiguity in not knowing in being

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curious and exploring and being

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uncertain and in business with reports

play17:39

and metrics and deadlines and everything

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ambiguity can be challenging but as a

play17:44

leader it's critical that you embrace

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the benefit of people sitting in not

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knowing in an

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ambiguity another uh piece is you have

play17:55

to get comfortable

play17:57

with how your relationship to

play18:01

failure what kinds of failure there

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there are because there

play18:06

is failure that is stretching Beyond

play18:11

trying to innovate come up with

play18:12

something new no one has done it you

play18:14

should not expect that you can do it

play18:16

right the first time if you are trying

play18:18

to stretch and really innovate and so

play18:21

you have to get comfortable with the

play18:22

first few tries are not going to work

play18:24

and maybe the first hundred tries are

play18:26

not going to work there's the iconic

play18:29

story of the invention of the light bulb

play18:31

and finding a thousand ways not to build

play18:33

a light bulb that's what we're talking

play18:36

about but let's not get confused by

play18:40

failure is a good thing nobody is trying

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to fail when they're innovating they are

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trying hard to succeed but fall short a

play18:48

few times as they go through and learn

play18:51

and in science if you think about

play18:55

running experiments the most interesting

play18:58

things that happen is when something

play19:00

unexpected happens when it doesn't go

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the way you thought it would and in

play19:04

there is the Discovery and the learning

play19:06

and the understanding so thinking about

play19:08

failure as a process of learning and

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continuing to go to achieve the

play19:13

goal there is a bad kind of failure so I

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don't want to come across as there's no

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failure and I think the whole world is

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fantastic there's some bad failure and I

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do it sometimes I miss an appointment I

play19:28

just mess up with my calendar it's

play19:30

failures of just executing on day-to-day

play19:33

routine things I'm not trying to

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innovate I don't I don't celebrate and

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be like oh what a great failure I just

play19:39

missed a

play19:41

meeting uh that's that's not a good and

play19:44

happy Innovation failure so that's what

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I mean about your relationship to it I

play19:47

try to succeed at everything I just give

play19:50

some space for a learning process and

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not getting it right the first time and

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that is th those two ideas and it and

play19:59

learning to change the relationship that

play20:02

you have as a leader when failure

play20:06

happens with your people if somebody

play20:09

consistently is doing those execution

play20:11

failures they need some feedback it

play20:13

might need some some other actions that

play20:15

go on but if you're asking them to

play20:18

stretch when they come to you and say it

play20:20

didn't work engaging with what did you

play20:23

learn how do we where do we go from here

play20:25

what is the right Next Step so you

play20:28

demystify that nobody wants to present

play20:30

the failure to the boss but if you can

play20:33

encourage them to make those stretches

play20:36

then they're going to discover

play20:38

incredible things and you're going to

play20:39

end up with people who have much more

play20:41

agency they feel more permission they're

play20:44

going to stretch farther and they will

play20:46

start to amaze you with the things they

play20:48

go off and do in fact I've got a great

play20:51

story we worked with the CEO of a

play20:55

Prestige luxury brand they make um

play20:59

facial

play21:00

products they explicitly for years did

play21:04

not enter the market with any kind of

play21:07

tools mechanics machines or equipment it

play21:10

was kind of part of this this the fabric

play21:13

of the company and the CEO really core

play21:16

that we should not do that but after we

play21:19

worked with them we taught them these

play21:22

tools the CEO started espousing it he's

play21:25

an amazing guy uh it the whole company

play21:28

was really doing great things with

play21:31

Innovation but a group on the side went

play21:35

off and didn't an experiment and said if

play21:37

we bring this tool in when we do our

play21:41

sales our sales go up on the things that

play21:43

aren't the tool by having it and they

play21:46

brought the data back to him and said

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this is what you told us to do and this

play21:50

is what it says and it actually changed

play21:52

that CEO he was comfortable enough to

play21:56

trust the people the process that they

play21:58

had done and that the data showed it was

play22:00

the right thing to do and so a little

play22:03

bit they entered into that

play22:05

market so that's a great leadership and

play22:09

Innovation story is to he teaches it

play22:13

within the company not just to his

play22:16

direct team but to everyone he'll take

play22:18

somebody in and help them get on board

play22:21

with this and then really live it and so

play22:23

the whole company is comfortable and

play22:25

will produce that and it turned out to

play22:27

really be a bottom line benefit to the

play22:30

company yeah thank you for that example

play22:32

and um it felt like that group really

play22:35

needed lots of agency to be able to

play22:38

venture and uh start something that was

play22:42

not considered um the general direction

play22:45

for the company yeah so um one thing I

play22:49

wanted to focus again on your book and

play22:52

one of the section that we luckily were

play22:55

able to check out H focuses on myths

play22:59

about Innovation right can you discuss a

play23:02

few and how they can be barriers uh to

play23:05

innovate yeah there are a lot of myths

play23:09

and I think the

play23:10

media uh helps to encourage a lot of

play23:14

those myths because they make for really

play23:16

good stories like if you there are a lot

play23:19

of movies out there about Silicon Valley

play23:21

there are TV shows about Silicon Valley

play23:24

that there's this overnight billionaire

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the the kid in their dorm room that goes

play23:30

out and they all of a sudden turn into

play23:33

the next unicorn company and you can

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only be Innovative in Silicon Valley of

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course of course it's it's the only

play23:41

place that it ever happens and the

play23:43

problem with all of those media articles

play23:47

and and sources is that they're very

play23:50

Loosely based on the truth they're just

play23:53

not full of

play23:55

truth it's a great story and it plays

play23:58

well well but uh they miss the years and

play24:03

years of failure and trial and uh the

play24:08

iterations that happened before that

play24:11

overnight Epiphany

play24:15

and it does happen fast don't get me

play24:18

wrong after a lot of work getting there

play24:22

once it takes hold and they really have

play24:24

understood the need nailed the problem

play24:27

got a solution that is widespread it can

play24:29

spread incredibly quickly I mean take a

play24:33

look at it was a little over 18 months

play24:36

that chat GPT launched into the world

play24:40

the penetration of of generative chat

play24:43

has been incredible and it keeps moving

play24:46

at a faster

play24:49

Pace 30 years a 35 years ago in gra in

play24:54

school I was working on AI it was the

play24:58

same kind of things it has taken a long

play25:00

time not none of this is really new but

play25:04

all the pieces have come together to

play25:07

have it come into the world in this new

play25:09

way and so it is that traditional hockey

play25:12

stick that you see but all those hockey

play25:14

sticks that you see if you keep going

play25:17

back to the left you'll see the very

play25:19

long close to zero line on it so those

play25:23

are the kind of myths that are

play25:24

propagated and one of them that

play25:27

overnight epiphany is that Innovation is

play25:29

not hard work or not Innovation is hard

play25:33

it is not hard it is hard work the

play25:36

individual tools and things that you

play25:39

need to

play25:40

do don't take special degrees and

play25:44

special training I mean you can get

play25:47

special training in in some of those

play25:49

areas but if you do it with diligence

play25:53

repeatedly over and over you can get

play25:56

there so

play25:59

um conversely there is no such thing as

play26:03

that big Eureka moment where someone has

play26:07

the bright

play26:08

idea right it's Innovation takes

play26:12

continuous incremental iteration trial

play26:15

error going out and uh interacting with

play26:19

people trying something putting it in

play26:21

front of more people it just takes a lot

play26:23

of work so there is not just overnight I

play26:25

thought of the idea that really just

play26:28

doesn't happen so that's a couple of the

play26:30

myths that uh we are trying to get away

play26:34

from and give people permission in the

play26:36

classes that I

play26:38

teach especially toward the end of the

play26:40

year for anybody that's graduating or

play26:43

getting going out into the workforce we

play26:45

get a lot of students that come up and

play26:46

want to talk to us about like what

play26:48

should I be doing and how H how do I go

play26:51

get a job and how do I take this with me

play26:53

if the company doesn't want to do it

play26:55

and uh I think

play26:58

the main thing that I start repeating as

play27:02

we get toward the end of the semester is

play27:04

you have to give yourself permission to

play27:06

go and do this most of the time you're

play27:10

not going to have someone come up and

play27:12

say could you please start this new

play27:15

process and here's your permission to go

play27:18

and run with it that's a message for

play27:20

leaders is if you can do that and

play27:23

encourage people and set that culture

play27:25

you're going to get more out of them but

play27:27

there's a certain amount of you don't

play27:29

have to say what you're doing you don't

play27:31

have to go off and uh start your big new

play27:36

project you can just incorporate a

play27:38

little bit of innovation into whatever

play27:40

you're doing pick a tool or two that

play27:43

might help you move things forward in

play27:45

the work you're already doing and that

play27:47

is a great thing to do but you have to

play27:49

give yourself permission another one is

play27:51

although it's easier now is to get out

play27:54

of the office get out of your office

play27:57

your home office and interact with other

play28:00

people we so often think I have to sit

play28:04

in my conference room in my home studio

play28:07

on Zoom or uh or whatever video

play28:11

conferencing and I have to come up with

play28:14

the idea and if you engage other people

play28:18

you give yourself permission to do

play28:20

things that aren't the way that

play28:23

everybody else is doing them then you

play28:26

start to achieve those those differences

play28:29

you you you have a lot more when you go

play28:32

out and talk to someone come back and

play28:34

say what I've heard from this group of

play28:36

10 users is now that has a lot more

play28:39

weight than just you in your opinion

play28:41

it's uh really seductive this idea you

play28:45

know the the idea that you can get all

play28:47

the success that you dreamed about uh

play28:51

one night but it can or usually lead to

play28:55

unrealistic expectations and we recently

play28:58

Juliana and I read the hbr article about

play29:02

how this Uber moments or you knowa

play29:06

moments how they overshadow the more

play29:10

important matter of how an invention

play29:13

reaches the

play29:15

marketplace and they provide the example

play29:18

of uh Thomas Edison and how he often

play29:20

emphasized the importance of persistence

play29:24

over you know random

play29:26

inspiration and uh this famous quote

play29:29

that we left that 1% is inspiration and

play29:32

99% of

play29:35

perspiration yes yeah that's how he

play29:37

highlighted this similarly Thomas Watson

play29:40

Jr of IBM struggled for years to

play29:43

transition from Punch Cards to computers

play29:45

right same article yeah because Yan and

play29:48

I read them as we were getting ready for

play29:50

discussions like this and he drew

play29:52

inspiration from the R Brothers right

play29:54

who took years of painstaking effort

play29:58

after their initial flight to prove

play30:00

sustained flight to the world yeah I I I

play30:04

love all of those stories and I think

play30:07

that is what

play30:09

is that's what should be taught in all

play30:11

entrepreneurship stories I think if you

play30:13

interview most entrepreneurs a few years

play30:16

in they largely will say if I knew what

play30:20

it would take to get here I would have

play30:22

never started this so there's a little

play30:24

bit of this optimism that I think you

play30:26

need to go off and tread A New Path but

play30:30

I think the reality is they would have

play30:33

because they did choose that path and

play30:35

they kept going and it is that

play30:36

persistence I mean for us we say it's

play30:39

not hard it's hard work it's this the

play30:41

same thing it takes dedication and

play30:44

persistence to move forward to come up

play30:46

with something is really new it's easy

play30:48

to come up with something

play30:50

that is fast is easy to do but it may

play30:56

not be the best thing and the the the

play30:59

ideas the products where you instantly

play31:02

recognize and say oh I need to get one

play31:05

of those those are the ones that have

play31:06

done all of the hard work to really

play31:09

understand the need and what's really

play31:11

going on and you don't have to be the

play31:14

first

play31:15

one that's another myth is that first

play31:18

mover advantage and you have to be the

play31:19

first to the

play31:21

market apple is famous for being almost

play31:25

last to the market and they first

play31:28

products not being their best products

play31:31

they have a design ethic inside that

play31:34

really they keep iterating and refining

play31:37

and making it better and better and I

play31:39

think it you can't really question the

play31:41

success of their model so how do you

play31:45

suggest to shift from waiting for that

play31:48

Uber moment to embracing and uh

play31:51

incremental

play31:53

process yeah I think

play31:58

one of the things that's intoxicating I

play32:00

think you said intoxicating about those

play32:02

overnight epiphanies is it means boy are

play32:06

you super

play32:08

smart and I think you have to let go of

play32:11

that and have humility I think design

play32:14

requires humility you have to realize

play32:17

that you are not that important that the

play32:20

other people around you and in front of

play32:22

you that you're designing for and with

play32:24

are the important people and that's a

play32:27

that's a lesson I actually learned from

play32:29

my side career of Performing improv when

play32:32

you're on stage with somebody the most

play32:34

important person is the person opposite

play32:36

you how do you make them look good and

play32:39

serve them and that same thing is true

play32:41

in design how do you design for these

play32:45

other people understand their needs

play32:47

forget about what you know take a

play32:49

beginner's mindset and get curious and

play32:52

learn and understand that is a critical

play32:56

piece for or going about you can design

play32:59

for yourself and if that's all you want

play33:01

to do you can call that Innovation as

play33:04

well but I think if you want to design

play33:06

for other people first you have to take

play33:08

a step of

play33:10

humility and the other thing is I think

play33:13

you need to set the bar Lower to start

play33:17

don't shoot for a moonshot on everything

play33:21

you do and that's the only thing and you

play33:24

have to get there in this one giant leap

play33:28

that's the hardest part to be able to

play33:31

move step by step not seeing and not you

play33:34

know seeking for the uh for seeeing the

play33:37

whole picture absolutely well and that

play33:39

is navigating this huge sea of ambiguity

play33:43

because you don't know if you can get

play33:45

there you don't even know exactly where

play33:48

you're headed and you still have to keep

play33:50

moving forward so there's a lot of grit

play33:54

that it takes to move forward to that

play33:56

and persistence

play33:59

and then I think you have to like we

play34:01

were saying about the moonshot the moon

play34:03

to get to the moon took Decades of small

play34:06

steps to get there and we don't need a

play34:10

moonshot for everything like a lot of

play34:13

things a roof shot is great and can make

play34:16

a big difference within a company if

play34:18

everybody in the company had one roof

play34:21

shop for a year per year it would

play34:23

transform every company that adopted

play34:26

that it can be really powerful and

play34:30

so a lot of what holds people back you

play34:33

mentioned design thinking there are a

play34:34

lot of people that go to take and learn

play34:37

design thinking in courses and boot

play34:38

camps and things like that and there is

play34:41

this moment of disillusionment that

play34:42

happens because you nobody has the brand

play34:46

new project that you can start from

play34:47

scratch and build a team I mean a few

play34:49

people do Lucky few people but most of

play34:52

them don't and then if you can't go and

play34:55

do all those things that you were told

play34:58

then you're kind of stuck and you can't

play35:01

do it what we're saying with Innovation

play35:04

is is you can do a little and doing a

play35:08

little is better and you move things

play35:11

forward a little bit more and then you

play35:12

can add some more in and if you really

play35:15

need a moonshot or something that's

play35:17

really good you do what those Elite

play35:21

design firms are doing and they are

play35:24

diligently doing these every day all day

play35:28

and putting in all the work that's

play35:29

needed to get there but if you want to

play35:33

just improve your process your product

play35:36

your problem that you're solving a

play35:38

little bit you can just do a little bit

play35:41

and see how it goes and that's that give

play35:44

yourself permission to try it and it can

play35:47

be for some people really addicting

play35:50

where you I mean that in a very loose

play35:53

sense of like it's engaging it's

play35:55

interesting you get something really

play35:57

good after a lot of hard work and you're

play35:58

like that was great let me do a little

play36:01

more and so you can ease into this

play36:04

process it's not an all or nothing there

play36:06

isn't a set of steps you have to do them

play36:08

all you're partway through a project

play36:11

jump into some iterations and do a

play36:12

couple of tests if that's all you do

play36:15

we're still happy and you're still

play36:16

Innovation is as far as we're concerned

play36:18

you might not be an innovator you might

play36:21

not you know be honoring your design

play36:23

thinking certificate but you are being

play36:25

Innovation is and that's why is is on

play36:28

there is it's a little bit softer genter

play36:31

gentler entry in to have more of it in

play36:35

the world because it doesn't have to be

play36:37

All or Nothing Richard I'm also curious

play36:40

what is the role of speed in uh

play36:43

Innovation process in your thinking

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because we uh recently had this

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conversation with Hai R we've discussed

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with Hai who is um you know who wrote

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the book about operational excellence

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and how to scale uh excellence and how

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to avoid friction and how friction can

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be good and bad and uh we got this

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Insight from conversation with him that

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even startups or whatever Innovation you

play37:10

create it's not necessarily you have to

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you know double down on a speed because

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uh sometimes startups and Innovation

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needs to be slowed down by friction and

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by that it can save uh the company from

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your you know lawsuits or any other

play37:31

problems that

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creates yeah what you think about this

play37:37

yeah I I like the idea of for me slowing

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down I think equates to stopping to be

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intentional and thoughtful about not

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what you do next not just go fast break

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things just do stuff nothing about what

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Innovation is is is about just doing

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more it's about being really careful and

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thoughtful about what is the thing I

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what's the question I need to ask next

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how can I find that answer out where

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have I

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seen something like this before that I

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can draw on to move it forward and so it

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doesn't mean you can't move fast or get

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a lot of things done it is hard work and

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you can do it in you know a series of

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Rapid Sprints to get there

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but I think it's not speed

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above in intention and

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thoughtfulness so the other thing I

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think is we all have the real world

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around us with deadlines with clients

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and deadlines with funders and deadlines

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you have to be able to move progress and

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so for me speed also speaks to the scale

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or scope so you can go faster to a

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smaller piece and then do a series of

play39:05

pieces and that's a little bit more

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iterative model so I think you can move

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fast I think you do need to break things

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I just think you need more than that and

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you need to be careful and thoughtful

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about how you're getting there and then

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give yourself enough

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structure that you can move and keep

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pace and keep that

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persistence uh going no structure is

play39:32

actually it makes it harder you can swim

play39:35

and wallow in ambiguity you can do fun

play39:38

interesting things for a long time in

play39:41

the name of

play39:42

creativity but I think it's not doing

play39:45

Innovation at that point it's

play39:48

enjoyable but I think you need to also

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keep things moving forward with that

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intention so about through line and for

play39:55

me the analogy that I like being a

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musician I've played classical and I

play40:01

have played Jazz we didn't know that

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yeah how come we didn't know

play40:07

that well uh I I don't know I I I uh

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um with classical music every note is

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written the entire Symphony plays

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together with Precision it is beautiful

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but the creativity happens by the

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composer in orchest UST rating that

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there is creativity in the musicians but

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it's everything is prescribed in there

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structure and for me that aligns with a

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more traditional world and a more

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traditional way that companies went

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about problem solving even back to the

play40:43

early days of developing software with

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what they called the waterfall model you

play40:47

get requirements then you develop a

play40:49

version it it's all very sequenced jazz

play40:53

on the other hand everyone still stays

play40:56

together but it's very loose you have

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the chord structure and that's all the

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notes are not prescribed in most

play41:05

cases and so if everybody follows the

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guide and stays in their Lane everything

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they play will blend together but it's

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new it's different it's interesting

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every time and there's a lot of creative

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freedom that isn't afforded it doesn't

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I'm I don't want to denigrate I loved

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classical music and I loved playing it

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it's an act of precision and execution

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and jazz is a different different form

play41:31

of it but for me that's the creativity

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that happens in Innovation and design is

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you have a whole team with a rough set

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of Sprints and objectives and everybody

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is working together to come up with

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something that's magical and that's

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where I think Innovation can happen I

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really love that analogy and uh I love

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that um I feel like it's such a great

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metaphor for creativity music um it's

play41:57

perfect perfect so let's dive into

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creative leadership what does it mean to

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be a creative leader can you share an

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example of a leader who exemplifies

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creative leadership and I think the

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example that we talked about the luxury

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brand is a really good one

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of empowering and educating your people

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of creating the conditions where the

play42:22

principles the mindsets that we're

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talking about in Innovation is are

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rewarded

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I have heard of uh we've had clients

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that they will have award ceremonies and

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they will reward failure you could have

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failure Awards everybody has rewards for

play42:39

successes but that just means the bar

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keeps getting higher you have to do it

play42:45

right but people that have had lots of

play42:48

iterations and lots of failures can be

play42:50

rewarded as well as long as that is on

play42:53

the way too and there is a success in

play42:55

there as well so I think es and

play42:57

experiments being rewarded and

play43:00

incentives for that can be really

play43:01

helpful

play43:03

also

play43:06

um I think you have

play43:10

to let go of control that humility that

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I talked about I think has to start with

play43:15

leadership

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also command and control I am the expert

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I know more I have been there I have

play43:23

done that I will distribute the

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assignments to you to go go and do I

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think is not the way of

play43:30

innovation it it's not the way of a a

play43:33

lot of places even the military has

play43:35

gotten away from that command and

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control you still respect the the

play43:40

hierarchy and the authority there but

play43:43

things like the commander's intent where

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here's the goal that we're going to set

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but on the ground when you are there and

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doing your job you might have to modify

play43:54

the plan to achieve the same goal and I

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think that is the style that you really

play43:58

want to do you want to set out strong

play44:01

goals encourage and nurture people move

play44:04

things out of their way help them to try

play44:09

to reflect on what they're doing to

play44:12

understand where they could go another

play44:13

way jump in and help roll up your

play44:15

sleeves to help them achieve what

play44:17

they're trying to do is more the style

play44:20

of leadership that is going to Foster

play44:22

Innovation really creating that as a

play44:25

culture yeah as you put it uh be right

play44:29

be uh be brief be gone doesn't work in

play44:33

leadership anymore it doesn't not if you

play44:36

want an innovation culture there are

play44:38

companies organizations culture uh

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company cultures that that might be the

play44:43

perfect thing but that is not going to

play44:46

Foster Innovation and creativity richer

play44:48

can you share some practical steps uh

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that leaders can take to enhance

play44:53

creativity in problem solving I think

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one practical thing that leaders can do

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to help Foster some creativity and some

play45:01

Innovation is to ask really good

play45:05

questions go to your team the team lead

play45:09

to your people ask them how could you

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better understand what you're working on

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or who else might you need to include to

play45:17

help bring in a different perspective to

play45:19

the project um how could you

play45:25

try how could you experiment to try out

play45:28

the idea you're thinking of to see if

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it's going to work in the world those

play45:32

kind of questions that make people

play45:34

really start to think take that

play45:36

intentional step what's the core thing

play45:40

that you need to solve next in your

play45:42

project so I think being inquisitive

play45:45

you're going to help people get

play45:47

into thinking about how they're thinking

play45:50

metacognitive reflection is what we

play45:52

would call that how do you help them to

play45:56

start to think through what they're

play45:58

doing more deeply so that they can come

play46:01

up with the solutions on their own I

play46:03

think that is a one very easy practical

play46:07

thing that leaders can do this has been

play46:09

an incredibly excital conversation and

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as we wrap up what's the one key

play46:14

takeaway you want our listeners to

play46:16

remember about creative leadership and

play46:18

Innovation and about your

play46:21

work I think Innovation is for

play46:25

everyone anyone can can do it you just

play46:28

have to start with something think about

play46:32

what you could do try something see how

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it works and then learn from

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that and don't put the pressure on

play46:40

yourself that you have to do at all or

play46:44

be the smart one you just have to

play46:48

keep moving forward intentionally

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chipping away at that problem that's

play46:54

where it really happens is by

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consistently intentionally moving

play47:00

forward with what you do next thank you

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so much Richard this has been such a

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wonderful conversation and we can't wait

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to see your book uh in a bookstore

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thanks yeah me too or in my mailbox yeah

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yeah sign book in my mailbox that's what

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I wait I can't wait to see it in a

play47:23

Google

play47:25

doc then we'll get it out to everybody

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so step by step incremental changes that

play47:31

is right that is

play47:32

right thank you both so much I I so

play47:35

enjoy interacting with you and uh both

play47:38

the the last one and this one and I'm

play47:41

looking forward to the the me to we the

play47:43

next one that wraps up our conversation

play47:45

with Richard Braden today we explored

play47:48

the essence of creativity and Innovation

play47:51

debunk common mys and discussed how to

play47:54

cultivate an Innovative mindset one key

play47:57

takeaway is that Innovation is for

play47:59

everyone and it's about consistently and

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intentionally moving towards problem

play48:04

solving if you want to support Mastery

play48:06

talks head over to patreon to

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play48:12

to get an access to exclusive giveaway

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play48:17

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play48:22

your thoughts feel free to share your

play48:23

questions in comments or just write Us

play48:26

in email at teammy talks.com we'd love

play48:30

to know how this episode affected you

play48:33

thank you for tuning in and until next

play48:35

time keep innovating and creating

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CreativityInnovationLeadershipDesign ThinkingStanfordHarvardInsightsProblem SolvingEntrepreneurshipEducationIncremental Change