How DePIN can revolutionize the way AI works (With Jonathan Schemoul from Aleph.im)

Summary

Dans cet entretien passionnant, Jonathan Schul, PDG d'Alf, partage ses visions sur l'intégration de l'IA et de la crypto dans un monde décentralisé. Il explique le concept de 'deepin', qui vise à offrir une infrastructure physique décentralisée, et discute de l'importance de la confidentialité et de la sécurité des données avec l'IA. Schul aborde également les défis et les opportunités de la création d'agents autonomes, soulignant le rôle clé des jetons dans l'incitation et la rémunération des participants du réseau. Le dialogue explore les synergies potentielles entre projets crypto et IA, et les perspectives d'avenir pour cette intersection innovante.

Takeaways

• 🌐 L'objectif principal de la plateforme est de combler le fossé entre l'espace crypto et le monde traditionnel tout en préservant les valeurs centrales du crypto et de la décentralisation.
• 🤖 L'importance de la décentralisation dans l'innovation financière et technologique est soulignée, avec l'AI et le secteur crypto comme moteurs principaux.
• 🗣️ Jonathan, le PDG d'Alf, a été introduit en tant que fondateur de la plateforme décentralisée AL, et a discuté de son parcours et de son implication dans l'espace crypto.
• 🎭 La différence entre être 'anon' et révéler son identité a été expliquée, mettant en évidence les avantages et les inconvénients de la décentralisation et de l'anonymat dans le développement de projets.
• 🔑 Le concept de 'deepin' a été introduit comme une nouvelle approche pour décentraliser l'infrastructure physique, permettant une existence décentralisée des infrastructures réelles.
• 🤖 L'importance de la décentralisation de l'IA a été discutée, notamment en termes de protection de la vie privée et de la sécurité des données face aux risques d'une IA centralisée.
• 🌐 L'AI décentralisée est présentée comme un moyen de prévenir une dystopie où les grandes entreprises pourraient avoir un contrôle total sur les données personnelles.
• 🛠️ Libert, une plateforme AI décentralisée, a été présentée, offrant des services similaires à ceux d'OpenAI mais sur un réseau décentralisé.
• 🔒 La confidentialité de l'inférence, avec des technologies telles que la génération de modèles chiffrés, est un progrès majeur qui sera disponible prochainement dans le secteur de l'IA décentralisée.
• 💡 L'importance de la tokenisation dans les projets de décentralisation a été soulignée, servant à créer des incitations, à payer pour des services spécifiques et à financer le développement de l'infrastructure.
• 🤝 L'équipe d'Alf et la communauté de nodes ont été brièvement présentés, mettant en évidence la taille et la structure du réseau derrière la technologie.

Q & A

Quel est le principal objectif de la plateforme .im?

Le principal objectif de .im est de combler le fossé entre l'espace crypto qui motive l'innovation financière et technologique, et le monde traditionnel, tout en préservant les valeurs centrales du crypto et de la décentralisation, et de construire la confiance dans un monde toujours plus axé sur la confiance.

Pourquoi Jonathan Schul a-t-il choisi d'être anonyme au début de son projet?

Jonathan a choisi d'être anonyme car il croyait que pour créer quelque chose de grand, il pourrait se faire des ennemis et il pourrait être préférable de rester anonyme. Cependant, en tant que responsable d'une entreprise qui cherche des fonds et fait des affaires, il a dû révéler son identité réelle pour éviter d'être confondu avec les arnaqueurs.

Qu'est-ce que le 'deepin' et comment est-il lié à l'infrastructure physique?

Le 'deepin' est un terme qui fait référence à l'infrastructure physique décentralisée. Il s'agit d'une manière de donner à une infrastructure physique, qui existe dans la vie réelle, une existence alternative dans un monde décentralisé et de la rendre disponible de manière décentralisée.

Quels sont les avantages potentiels de la décentralisation de l'IA?

La décentralisation de l'IA peut offrir des avantages tels que la préservation de la vie privée, la réduction des risques de ciblage et de surveillance par des acteurs malveillants ou même par de grands acteurs comme Open AI ou Microsoft, et l'évitement de scénarios dystopiques où une entité unique détient le contrôle total de la vie numérique et réelle des individus.

Quel est le rôle de l'IA dans le futur de la vie quotidienne, selon Jonathan?

Selon Jonathan, dans les cinq ans, nous utiliserons tous l'IA pour notre vie quotidienne, avec des dispositifs comme des lunettes de Meta qui nous donnent des informations en temps réel sur ce que nous faisons et ce que nous voyons, agissant comme un assistant personnel qui voit et entend tout ce que nous faisons.

Pourquoi la confidentialité et l'end-to-end encryption sont-elles importantes pour l'IA décentralisée?

La confidentialité et l'end-to-end encryption sont importantes pour s'assurer que les données personnelles et sensibles ne soient pas accessibles par des tiers non autorisés, protégeant ainsi contre les fuites de données et les abus de la vie privée.

Quel est le projet Liberti et comment il est lié à .im?

Liberti est une plateforme d'IA construite sur le réseau de nuage décentralisé .im. Il offre une interface de chat similaire à Chat GPT et des API pour permettre aux utilisateurs de tirer parti des fonctionnalités d'IA décentralisé.

Quels sont les défis auxquels .im et Liberti AI sont confrontés actuellement?

Les défis comprennent l'éducation du marché sur la valeur de la décentralisation de l'IA, la mise à l'échelle de l'infrastructure pour supporter les agents IA, et la création de normes pour assurer la sécurité et la confidentialité des données.

Quelle est la vision à long terme de Jonathan pour les agents IA décentralisés?

La vision à long terme de Jonathan est de voir des agents IA entièrement autonomes opérant sur la blockchain, capables de prendre des décisions et d'effectuer des actions en fonction de leurs propres algorithmes et données, sans intervention humaine directe.

Comment .im et Liberti AI gèrent-ils la rémunération et les incitations pour les participants du réseau?

Sur le réseau .im, les participants qui apportent des ressources de calcul sont rémunérés en utilisant le token AL, qui sert également à financer l'infrastructure du réseau et à payer les services de calcul. Pour Liberti AI, le token LTI est utilisé pour payer l'inférence IA et est échangé dynamiquement contre le token AL pour le calcul.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Introduction à la rencontre et contexte de la crypto

Le paragraphe introduit l'échange entre l'animateur et Jonathan Schul, le PDG d'Alf. L'objectif de la conférence est de combler le fossé entre l'espace crypto et le monde traditionnel tout en préservant les valeurs de décentralisation et de confiance. Jonathan explique son parcours, son départ anonyme dans le cryptoespace et la nécessité de révéler son identité pour établir la crédibilité de son projet, AL, une plateforme décentralisée pour le stockage de données.

05:01

🔒 Décentralisation et confidentialité dans l'IA

Dans ce paragraphe, Jonathan aborde l'importance de la décentralisation de l'IA pour préserver la vie privée et la sécurité des données. Il illustre les risques d'une IA centralisée en imaginant un avenir dystopique où des acteurs malveillants pourraient avoir un accès total à la vie des individus. Il souligne les avantages de la décentralisation pour éviter de telles scénarios et mentionne les projets en cours, tels que Libert, qui vise à offrir des services d'IA décentralisée avec des fonctionnalités de confidentialité.

10:03

🌐 Présentation de Libert, la plateforme d'IA décentralisée

Le paragraphe présente Libert, une plateforme d'IA construite sur le réseau cloud décentralisé .im. Il décrit la plateforme comme une alternative à Open AI, offrant des services d'IA avec une interface de chat similaire à Chat GPT. Jonathan détaille également la fonctionnalité de confidentialité des inférences, qui permet de générer du contenu sans que les nœuds du réseau puissent accéder aux données sensibles.

15:05

🛠 Fondamentaux d'Alf et expérience de Jonathan

Ici, Jonathan partage son parcours professionnel avant d'entrer dans le domaine de la crypto, en tant que développeur, designer et entrepreneur. Il explique comment sa passion pour la décentralisation l'a conduit à créer Alf, une plateforme décentralisée pour stocker des données, et discute de son rôle dans d'autres projets technologiques et startups.

20:08

🤖 L'avenir de l'IA décentralisée et les défis

Ce paragraphe explore les implications de l'IA décentralisée et les défis à relever pour atteindre un avenir où les agents IA autonomes pourraient fonctionner sur les blockchains. Jonathan discute de la nécessité de la décentralisation pour éviter les monopoles des grandes entreprises et de la création de tokens pour encourager la participation et la sécurité du réseau.

25:11

🏦 Agents IA et leur rôle dans la finance décentralisée

Jonathan explique le concept d'agents IA, des entités autonomes capables de prendre des décisions et d'effectuer des transactions en fonction des instructions données. Il envisage un avenir où ces agents pourraient participer à des systèmes financiers décentralisés, améliorant l'efficacité et réduisant la dépendance aux processus manuels.

30:16

🔑 Confidentialité et sécurité des données dans les réseaux décentralisés

Ce paragraphe se concentre sur la protection des données dans les réseaux décentralisés, en soulignant l'importance de l'encryption et de la fragmentation des données pour garantir la confidentialité. Jonathan mentionne les fonctionnalités de sécurité de Libert, qui permettent de stocker des documents chiffrés sur le réseau décentralisé.

35:17

🔮 Perspectives sur l'avenir de l'IA et la blockchain

Jonathan partage ses réflexions sur l'avenir de l'IA et de la blockchain, en discutant des cas d'utilisation pour les agents IA dans les systèmes de vote en ligne et les financements. Il aborde également la question de la standardisation et la potentielle création de blockchains dédiées à l'IA, bien qu'il préfère l'utilisation de réseaux existants avec des technologies de décentralisation.

🚀 Stratégies pour la croissance et la pérennité d'Alf et Libert

Dans ce paragraphe, Jonathan discute des plans pour assurer la croissance et la pérennité des projets Alf et Libert, en mettant l'accent sur l'éducation du marché, le développement de la confidentialité de l'IA et la création d'agents IA autonomes. Il exprime son optimisme quant à l'autofinancement de ces projets grâce à la mise en place de ces agents IA.

📊 Synthèse finale et perspectives pour les projets Alf et Libert

Ce paragraphe clôture l'entretien en résumant les points clés et en exprimant les souhaits de Jonathan pour le lancement réussi du token Libert. Il remercie l'animateur et l'audience, tout en soulignant l'importance de cette discussion dans le contexte de la saison de la conférence Big Well.

Keywords

💡Crypto espace

Le 'crypto espace' fait référence au domaine des technologies cryptographiques et de la monnaie numérique, qui est un thème central de la vidéo. Dans le script, il est mentionné comme un moteur de l'innovation financière et technologique, montrant son importance dans le développement des projets et des entreprises modernes.

💡Décentralisation

La 'déccentralisation' est un principe clé de la blockchain et des technologies cryptographiques, qui vise à redistribuer l'autorité et la responsabilité entre un réseau de participants. Le script discute de la décentralisation comme étant essentielle pour préserver les valeurs fondamentales du crypto espace et pour innover dans le secteur de l'IA (Intelligence Artificielle).

💡Confidentialité

La 'confidentialité' est un aspect crucial dans le contexte de l'IA et des données personnelles. Le script aborde la question de la protection des informations sensibles contre les acteurs malveillants et la nécessité de solutions décentralisées pour assurer la confidentialité des données, comme le suggère l'importance de la confidentialité dans les générations de modèles IA.

💡Infrastructure physique

L' 'Infrastructure physique' est mentionnée dans le contexte de la 'deepin', qui est un terme abrégé pour 'décentralized physical infrastructure'. Cela fait référence à l'idée d'appliquer la décentralisation aux éléments concrets du monde réel, ce qui est un point clé pour comprendre l'expansion de la technologie blockchain au-delà du simple stockage de données.

💡Tokenisation

La 'tokenisation' est le processus de transformation de biens ou d'actifs réels en jetons numériques sur une blockchain. Dans le script, cela est lié à l'idée de 'deepin', montrant comment les actifs du monde réel peuvent être intégrés à l'espace cryptographique pour une utilisation décentralisée.

💡IA décentralisée

L' 'IA décentralisée' est un concept qui se développe dans le script, où l'IA est exécutée sur un réseau décentralisé plutôt que sur des serveurs centralisés. Cela permet de réduire les risques de censure et de monopolisation des données, et est un élément clé pour la protection de la vie privée et de la sécurité des informations.

💡Agents autonomes

Les 'agents autonomes' sont des programmes informatiques capables de prendre des décisions et d'effectuer des actions en fonction de critères prédéfinis. Dans le script, ils sont discutés comme une application future de l'IA décentralisée, où ces agents pourraient gérer des transactions ou des interactions sur les réseaux blockchain en tant que représentants des utilisateurs.

💡Infrastructure de cloud décentralisée

L' 'Infrastructure de cloud décentralisée' est une plateforme qui permet l'exécution de services de cloud computing sur un réseau décentralisé. Le script mentionne des projets spécifiques comme .im, qui est un exemple de cette infrastructure, servant de base à l'exécution d'applications et de services IA décentralisés.

💡Gratification (récompense)

La 'gratification' est un mécanisme utilisé dans les réseaux décentralisés pour encourager les participants à fournir des ressources ou à effectuer des actions bénéfiques pour le réseau. Dans le contexte du script, cela est lié à l'incitation des participants à contribuer à la puissance de calcul ou au stockage, en échange de récompenses sous forme de jetons.

💡Jeton (token)

Un 'jeton' ou 'token' est une unité de valeur utilisée dans les réseaux blockchain et les économies décentralisées. Dans le script, les jetons sont discutés en relation avec leur rôle dans les激励 les participants au réseau, en offrant un moyen de transaction et de valeur interne pour les services et les ressources échangés.

Highlights

The main goal of the media is to bridge the gap between the crypto space and the traditional world without losing the core value of crypto and decentralization.

Jonathan, the CEO of ALF, discusses his journey from anonymity in the crypto space to revealing his identity to build trust.

The concept of 'deepin' is introduced as decentralized physical infrastructure, bringing real-life assets into the decentralized world.

Decentralized AI is presented as a solution to protect personal data and avoid dystopian scenarios of total surveillance by big tech companies.

Liberti, an AI platform built on a decentralized cloud network, is explained as a way to prevent single points of failure and data breaches.

Confidential inference, a feature to be released in summer, will allow AI model operations to be conducted securely without data exposure.

The importance of decentralization in AI is emphasized to prevent the misuse of personal data and to maintain privacy.

ALF's background is discussed, including Jonathan's previous experiences in development, design, and the creation of various startups.

The need for a token in decentralized projects is explained for incentivizing participation and bootstrapping the economy.

The potential of AI agents to perform actions autonomously, such as trading bots or intelligent agents with access to large language models, is explored.

The challenges of achieving a truly decentralized network and the importance of encryption for data privacy are highlighted.

The future of AI on blockchain is envisioned, including the use of AI agents in DAOs and the potential for autonomous digital entities.

The discussion touches on the need for standardization in the AI and blockchain sector to foster synergies between different projects.

The potential for AI to revolutionize traditional finance by providing digital-native solutions is presented.

The current state of AI is assessed, acknowledging that while AI itself is not new, the current advancements are at a pivotal stage.

Strategies for survival in the crypto startup space are discussed, focusing on the importance of developing a working product and educating the market.

The team size and community involvement in ALF and Liberti projects are shared, giving insight into the scale of the operations.

Transcripts

hi everyone thanks a lot to be with us

for this big talk from the big well as a

media our main goal is to bridge the gap

between the crypto space which is

actually driving the financial

Innovation a why not the AI Innovation

and the traditional world without losing

the core value of crypto and

decentralization and at the end to build

trust in a still trust world and today

we are talking about hii and crypto I am

very pleased for this topic to host

Jonathan schul who is the CEO of Alf my

first question Jonathan as usual very

simple who are

you um well hello thanks thanks for like

having me today uh so who I am uh who am

I um I'm Jan

sha on telegram Twitter Etc why do I

have two names that's where because I

started unon yeah exactly and when you

are on Anon you like have an name and

then I docked myself when when I created

the AL project which is a decentralized

cloud and so that's who I am I'm the

founder of

al. um and and I'm a former Unown in the

crypto space so what what do you mean by

an what does it mean for you uh for me

it was like I didn't disclose my real

identity at start because I really

believe that if you want to create

something big uh you might make some

enemies uh while doing it and it might

have been better to stay Anonymous

fully but when you are working as a

company and where you are raising money

when you are doing a well lot of stuff

you can't because there has been too

many scammers and are who have passed as

an anonymous person then I like had to

dox myself which is give my real

identity okay okay okay so uh by the way

my question was or are you but maybe

that's a better answer from from you

Jonathan so let's um let's go straight

to the points you know we we hear a lot

about this word you know it's like deing

deep in you know uh can you explain in a

simpl way why is what is the

sorry so deepin is a new name for

something that existed for a long time

um before deep in we just talked about

decentralization we just talked about

tokenization so deeping in itself is

decentralized physical

infrastructure uh it's a

way uh to make a physical infrastructure

something that lives in real life having

an alter ego in a

decentralized world and to be available

in a decentralized way uh I don't know

if you remember in the 2017 Ico C people

were talking about decentralizing Uber

decentralizing R

decentralizing this or that most of

these project were grift uh by grift I

mean stuff where where they just raise

money and didn't do anything now we are

at the phase where people are really

doing it and that's the world deep in

narrative we

see um Telecom networks being

decentralized we see WiFi meshes being

decentralized we see Cloud Network which

are basically computers that you make

available on a decentralized network and

and and this is deepin for the cloud we

also see deepin for a which is

essentially the same uh we see deepin

for a lot of stuff and if you go that

way tokenization of assets of real world

assets is deepin as well okay

interesting so um uh when we are talking

about AI you know what is the value of

the of the DP why we have to

decentralized AI or to put AI you know

on the decentralized network you know is

it's still bad today or you know what

what's what's really the the the core

value of of this if you only look at the

pure functional aspect AI works really

well in a centralized way

uh that's why it's being it's being done

that way right now if you look at open

AI it's huge data centers with a lot of

gpus which are connecting which are

connected using what you call envying uh

uh on the graphic cards themselves um

which are not graphic anymore but that's

another story uh that's Co that works

but now let's look at the issue from

another um we are in in five years time

we are all using AI for like our

everyday's life um we have glasses from

meta which are watching whatever we are

doing uh and giving us information about

it and giving us

more more like uh it would be like a

personal assistant which always sees and

hears what you are seeing and hearing uh

oh tell me AI where did I put my

keys this morning you have left them on

the table okay cool I can go and grab

them um

earlier I talked with my dad uh we said

that we would meet but when oh you would

you will meet next Tuesday at 3 pm

because it remembers everything well

that's cool that works in a centralized

way that's really great now uh what

happens if someone get access to like

that D and sees whatever you have seen

whatever you have heard whatever you

have said whatever you have thought and

asked to your AI continuously then they

have every single thing about you and

that's a pure or story and not only if a

malicious actor gets access to it

because that will happen it will always

happen but the Temptation from a single

big actor like open AI

Microsoft or like whoever else because

there is because the a war is there for

personal data

um the world Temptation for one single

actor to like have access to your world

life world digital and real life then

it's a total Horror Story and it's

totally dystopian and I think that we

might be five to 10 years away of that

even less um and if we fight back and

put and put AI not on centralized big

servers and centralized B comp companies

but but on decentralized clouds like.im

plus libert which is the AI project on

top then you can fight back and avoid

that that worst case scenario because in

that worst case scenario I don't know if

you have seen um there was an episode uh

of of that series which is called Black

Mirror where someone could could sum on

a digital twin of its deceased

girlfriend well well I I I I don't

remember if it was a thisas girlfriend

or something like that thisas member of

his family but he could sumon it and

discuss with it and and I have a real

world twin of that person well we aren't

that far from

it and we could get digital clones of

ourselves in the

wild and I don't know I'm not really

happy about that and having my whole

life given away to a company either and

there would be our story and we can't

trust any company with that we are

already trusting Google with a small

part of that it's already problematic

imagine with everything so like that's

why AI plus dpin is a real matchmate in

heaven because if you can decentralize

that world centralized infrastructure

and run AI on top and and stop logging

and do end to end encryption encryption

for your data that like only you can

access etc etc etc we are good and how

it's working uh currently where we are

about this those promises you

know well um libert for example is

running on top of a. Im so like whenever

you are doing uh compation requests uh

it it distributes it on the network so

like no not single node can get access

to like your data um what will

be announced this summer uh and will be

available summer uh is confidential

inference and confidential inference

will allow you to like do the World Tech

generation or image generation or video

generation or like audio generation

whatever the generation part of generate

tvi be done on a decentralized network

where no one can see what's happening

inside your inference uh model so like

so like not even the node owner can look

inside the memory and see what's

happening because everything is

encrypted

uh from top to bottom no one can see it

so like this will be available this

summer so we are pretty close um the

model themselves we aren't close totally

to what has been

demoed

by pen Ai and overs but they aren't

released either in the white so I think

that we are pretty close already okay

can you just describe what is it Liberty

a because you you you mention it but uh

for the audience maybe it's not so clear

what is liberti maybe yes so like so

like liberi is an AI platform built on

top of the l. decentralized Cloud

Network you come check it at Liber

ai. and there is even a chat interface

just like chat GPT which is chat.

liberio so whatever you can do with chat

GPT you can do it with it uh it's an AI

platform which also has API just like

open AI has apis

I like to describe the world interaction

between al. IM and libert as just like

the interaction between open Ai and

Microsoft Azure Microsoft Azure is

actually the cloud infrastructure al. is

the uh is decentralized cloud

infrastructure and libert AI is the AI

platform on top just like open AI is an

AI platform which uses Azure Computing

behive and DP can make AI more efficient

or or not because you talk about the the

the decentralization you know about the

the data the most um but it could be

more efficient on the on the dep maybe

Network or blockchain but I guess it's a

it's a it's a blockchain or that could

be by the way a public blockchain or

private

blockchain so uh here it's not a

blockchain it's the network which is

separate from from blockchains but uses

the world the world Primitives of

blockchains because when we're talking

about blockchain we are talking about a

set of Technologies one which is a

ledger uh which is made from blocks

where each blocks references the

previous and like if you want to like

change the past you need to change the

whole chain of blocks that's the main

blockchain part but in reality we are

using ashing we are using elliptic curve

graphy we are using addresses system

account based uh ledgers Etc the time

Network and like over clo and over

decentralized cloes most of them are

using all these Technologies but not

necessarily the chain of blocks part

because onm we use blockchain but we

write on existing blockchains for that

security part we don't maintain our own

chain of blocks but we are messaging we

have hashing we have signatures we have

everything that um that a blockchain has

but we don't have that chain of blocks

because we use the security of ethereum

for that because largely enough for us

okay so you are linked directly uh with

etherum you know teally it's correct to

say that yes uh but we write once every

hour a list of messages of Al on

ethereum as one single transaction it's

a bit like a roll of or Layer Two or

layer zero okay so it just just it's

it's pretty enough but it's like to have

some proof on chain and to to prove that

you are decentralized and you can check

the data on chain so that's exactly okay

okay well you you need to like get the

data from the network and verify yeah

yeah yeah exactly okay okay so just you

mention it uh at the beginning at the

start of this interview uh Jonathan but

can you just summarize uh what Alf is

doing and what is the background of of

Alf you know and your background by the

way where where where are you from

before to fall in this in this crypto

space uh well um before being into

crypto I've been a developer for quite a

long time I've also been a designer I've

also been a marketer a long time ago

that wasn't really my my gig uh I did I

did studies of project management and of

of global economics um but I've always

been developing aide I've also been

doing Electronics so like at one time I

was doing um freelance developer work

for society General a long time ago I

also been um creating lead panels like

you know like like those advertisement

um LED Billboards I created a world

technology to like make that work back

then we we like all the um all the

circuit boards Etc so like designing iot

Hardware um I've been creating a few

startups one which was called paroni

which is which which is a

bar bar and restaurant searching

platform in Paris long time ago so it

was not in crypto it's not in crypto at

all it was more like web to electronics

and stuff and when I came into crypto I

was really interested because there was

this world decentralization thing it was

a bit before all that 2017 bubble but

when it came I I really saw the

point okay there was gter but I really

saw the point on what they were wanting

to do um and so I really joined it

started developing Etc and I came to a

point where I wanted to do a big social

network which which I never did because

I realized that that that I was missing

breaks I couldn't store pictures I

couldn't store videos I couldn't store

text on the blockchain easily and I was

like okay I need to make a platform for

that and then I started creating the

platform which we became al. oh really

so it was like a uh nft platform for

example because you

know it's possible to another way of

nfts to store some some pictures on

chain or some o

working so um right now there is a trend

of having nfts which are storing

everything on chain but it costs a lot

and and what they do is that they are

generating on SBG with a picture Etc in

reality your nft only points to a

metadata URL which is started somewhere

on the server people use itfs for that

but what the com do is to point to like

on v machine and generate those metadata

on the Fly and change them based on what

happens on chain and of chain that's

what we are doing with Ubisoft for

example like Dynamic nfts on the network

oh interesting okay okay okay okay so

just let's back to this to to the main

topic of today you know there is

indubitably like an intersection of of

AI in crypto so we are seeing that right

now so you know there is lots of like U

marketing or we can say like

you know so if you have just some

advises to to give you know to AV this

kind of of marketing of you

know when people want to buy like a

token or to you know to to invest on

some project but for example like Alf

you know so how is it possible to see is

it marketing a scam or a real

project uh what you want to invest in

that's a good question and that's hard

well I know when I look at project if

it's real or not you need to check if

it's really decentralized

if they are using open a API behind

because a lot of them are um there are a

few exceptions to like that there is

libert AI with the LTI token obviously

there is also Venice AI uh which is

really decentralized as well even they

they won't have that confidential

inference thing there is also B tensor

which is

another uh real

thing uh if even if they had a security

issue so like I wouldn't recommend

buying it right now because of that

issue perhaps wait for stuff to step to

to like settle um it's really hard there

I would say that the project that are

really doing decentralized AI there are

less than five or six on the market

right now so yeah so be careful because

most of them are just uh okay

okay and you know um why we need most of

the time a token why this kind of

project are launching a token you know

for for for you with with Alf you know

why you need a token for your for your

infrastructure and how it's working well

uh I can also answer on both Al and

libert AI because we launched a token

for Liberty AI as well which is the LTI

token on base

um on on B Layer Two of of con Bas so

that's yeah

yeah it

launched um quite recently so like

like on un on Unis V3 on base um so why

do we need a token that's a good

question there is a few parts tokens are

really useful for one thing which is

incentives let's say you were to use uh

stable coin you could say people put

computing power they're rewarding stable

coin when people use

it why not um then how do you uh how

does your network validation and control

gets paid it should get a cut of that in

St coin but the issue is that if you

don't have enough computer at start

enough demand then those controllers

won't work and if those controllers

won't work your network won't start so

you will need to pay people for nothing

in usdc

and your

St uh because you for decentralization

you need controllers you need validators

you need a wall infrastructure in place

that token un ironically solves because

if your token has a value then you can

pay service for that token and then it

can bootstrap that whole economy and

make it work so that's one part of the

reason token makes sense there

um and and it's also a perfect utility

token there uh for that

Network

um in which way you know it's like uh

you know you you talk about the token

you know to like an utility token why

it's a utility

token because you will be able to like

pay for specific actions on the network

with that token specific

ically uh and everyone is accepting the

the same money and and and and the same

currency on that network uh and that

currency also pays the controllers etc

etc etc and the good part today with

defi is that you can seamlessly move

between tokens and you even have bricks

like super fluid which allows you to

create payment streams exchange inside

the payment stream automatic isolate

let's say if you want to pay in Stables

because you don't want to pay in that

specific token you can start a payment

in usdc it gets transferred into Al Etc

and then it gets paid another part which

is interesting in

AI is that stable coins generally have

POS functions and they also have

Blacklist functions for regulatory

reasons um if we go a bit further on the

AI decentralization we want to have

agents we want to have agents that can

pay for their own Computing that can

start and they can run as long as they

have money and they they can even be a

dow themselves you could for example

invest in an AI agent that is making

money and then you would have shares of

that AI agent in the future right why

not that AI agent needs to pay for

servers it need to pay for servers in a

specific curreny and that's where the

LTI token is used for example is that

it's used to pay for AI inference in a

specific token which is used for AI

inference that gets exchange dynamically

into a for computing and then the

Computing provider can get them even

exchange themselves into usdc that's

they prefer wow the end okay uh the the

thing is that since we have tokens on

the exchange Dynamic and so having a

token is not an issue if you are in that

kind of space um and so as I was saying

for like agents totally makes sense to

the specific token to pay for AI

inference to but that can be Lo in

certain ways for agents

Etc

um that's my opinion for me it makes

sense and that's why we needed that LTA

token as well okay interesting

interesting so you just talk about uh AI

agents you know um can you explain a

little bit more about this because it's

it's not like confused but you talk

about okay an agent could be for example

a DA that's quite interesting so just

can you explain a little bit more about

this you know yeah

sure so

um let's take it from the beginning um

an agent is basically something that you

start

and takes action for you when when you

are not available to take those

actions uh D agent could just be a

trading bot could just be a process that

you run that looks on chain uh for like

the state of a pool for example and and

like if the price drops be under 10

cents it would place a by order for you

that's a you don't need a for you can do

it um if you want to for it to run for

long and private Keys you need to trust

your server or use confidential VMS from

the network and then this run and no one

can see your private inside BL now

intelligent agents what are they is the

same thing except that it calls a large

language model in between and that large

language model will have natural

language um rules uh let's say you can

give it a goal if if we stay that okay I

want you to find where I can make money

with that token on that pool please then

your agent will register to late events

from that pool look for price and trade

on it based on whatever it deems

interesting your agent could go one

level further and generate code to like

do it and and retrieve data more

efficiently your

could even start sub agent if it start

becoming profitable on compay for more

Computing start sub agents on over pools

start of agents that that study on

Google and on the internet all the

market movements for the last couple of

years for that asset and understand why

it is doing

that okay interesting your and your

agent like start of Agents etc etc etc

okay but currently uh

nowadays um those networks you know are

are enough of scale scalable to to host

some agent or some you know some some

infrastructure like that you know some

action yep yep

um I will have a talk at

itcc uh and my talk at itcc is about how

to use large language models as a tool

for smart contract TR developers and

it's exactly about that basically what

what what what I'm demoing in that talk

is uh how to have something that listen

to events fits it into an

llm and that LM can take actions and and

and it has what you call functions

available to it and functions are just

smart contract gos on that smart

contract and he takes action based on

what he wants to do or not and on the

prompt and rules and that's already

doable

on you can already do it work okay

interesting and you know just to to go

back to the decentralization about dein

you know oh it it's store you know in

the network you know because okay now

the problem is like we are not enough

decentralized of course but where is it

store those data on the on the

deepin so on deepin

um it's sted on a network of nodes okay

you need to take into account that

everything will be public unless you're

using te Etc and then you have some

chance for it not to be public just take

into account that it will be public but

actually if it's stored on centralized

net on centralized third parties one day

to leak as well just look at class pass

etc etc all like all the acts that

happen data have has a total tendency to

leak data always

leaks that's that's just like water

water leaks well thata leaks as well

um

now one thing that we can do to prevent

issues when we are doing that is to

encrypt uh um so on on Liber for example

when you are storing documents inside

your knowledge DB uh which is the

database which is available to you that

you can share later if you want the

sharing part is not live yet but will

come um it encrypts everything on your

browser for your private key stores it

on a decentralized network encrypted and

and split in a lot of small place Parts

when you requesting data gets everything

decrypted and gets it un encrypted on

your browser okay but only for you uh so

it Lees on a decentralized network but

totally encrypted and split etc etc okay

okay okay interesting and you know uh to

talk about the future of uh like the

completely onchain AI uh what will be

the main use cases because you you talk

about some some agent you know but why

we need except of course the

decentralization why we need an AI on on

blockchain you know what could be the

other use cases about

this um those um um Dio are are a

perfect use case because a lot of the

Dio today are slow why because people

don't want to take action because it

needs work etc etc if you have ai agent

that represent you and can take action

on your behalf and to which you are

given clear instructions then the world

Dio can take actions based on all its

members States and what they think

that's one part another part which is is

simply that if we get into a case where

we have

agents uh agents and Banks and

traditional Finance doesn't work you

need manual verification all the time

you need to contact the bank you need to

go there physically to verify

transaction they call you etc etc it

doesn't work with AIS AIS are are

natively digital and and in the natively

digital world what is the natively

digital money it's blockchain it's table

coins it's crypto

tokens interesting okay and uh you know

there is like um you know what what is

missing to my point of view about this

this market and this this sector

especially Ai and and blockchain is some

standardization you know so where we are

about this and uh you know uh what like

uh synergies can emerge between

different AI crypto projects uh in in a

close future or in the future can we

imagine a general blockchain you know a

public blockchain

where only dedicate to the to to AI

project you know I one thing that would

make sense uh to have a blockchain

dedicated to that uh you could have a

lot of blockchains that are today used

for that using dpin because dpin is

there for that it's another layer on top

of blockchains why would you need

separate blockchains uh blockchain for

humans blockchain for machines just use

the same I don't really see a reason for

which we would have to separate them

because a is just human

with infrastructure

behind and humans that need

infrastructure to live okay okay okay

but you know you describe a very

interesting future uh with some agent

with some some AI with with some banks

solving lots of problems right now we we

we are seeing um how far we are about

this future you just describe because

you know uh that just the beginning most

of the time we are all the time saying

we are so early so maybe that's not an

exception for this uh for this part of

the of the crypto sector so how far we

are about about all of this you know and

what kind of challenges remained to

reach this uh this future so AI is not

new uh large language models might look

new they they

aren't uh what do you mean by

that people are working on AI for the

last 100 years

uh even before it was on

computers uh if you read azimov he was

describing a lot of the problematics

that we have if you are reading a lot of

these science fiction books they are

describing a lot of the problems we have

um if you

even read about about the philosopher

from hundred of years ago they were

already thinking about it the world

Golem thing is that is an AI that is

that that that that that has broke free

um

so it's not new it's a problematic that

we have had in our minds for hundred of

year uh so we are ear in the current

state of thing and when repl AI we are

definitely ear uh in AI in general

we are late we are at a phase where it

starts

working uh and it's pretty crazy because

it means that it's of year of advances

and new technology that are coming

together to get to like that point

um so we aren't early on

AI uh we are early on web fre pleas AI

which is quite

interesting um and to see the world time

frame I have no idea what we say is that

we tend to like to like overestimate

what happens in the next few years and

we tend to underestimate what happens in

20 30 years uh

so given that I would say in the next

five to 10 years but perhaps longer or

perhaps

shorter uh but I definitely think that

in the next five to 10 years the world

will be

completely different due to that okay

okay okay and you know according to that

you just saying we are early uh what's

your plan to to survive you know because

uh the one of the main question about

lots of crypto startup it's to find some

cash you know to to survive you know so

what's your plan about this and what

kind of uh of businesses you can develop

around the AI currently uh to work I

don't know with some institutional

player or some banks or or some AI

traditional

companies well confidential AI is is an

important one providing confidential

Computing for AI uh it's something that

we are working on um another one which

is decentralization of AI and showing

the value of it but it needs a lot of

Education that's why I'm here as well uh

and that's mostly it like people

understanding the value and using it Etc

uh developing building getting it ready

getting it working and to be honest if

we get to that goal of having totally

free agents that are working on the

blockchain and that paper own Computing

funding won't be a real issue because it

will fund

itself ah okay interesting interesting

so completely autonom

agent yeah that's my goal we will see if

it works or not okay okay okay and Jan

you you talk about um you know to bring

if you bring some computing power you

know to the network you will be reward

for this so just can you explain because

in this case a token for example is very

useful yeah uh so on the L Network for

example you can bring two kind of of

nodes one which is the Cent node which

are the validators of the network and

the token makes sense also because you

need to hold the specific amount of

tokens to be able to create one people

need to stake on your note to activate

it and and if you behave badly they will

unstake and you will get

deactivated which is the world game

theory about tokens as well which is

also important on what we are saying

about tokens um and the others is

Computing resource node which are the

which are the no that are actually run

the workloads they need to be vetted by

those cor Channel nodes and they start

earning actually good money for it um

it's a few hundred per server that you

per month per server that that you bring

to the network so it's quite good uh and

the token also serves to finance that

pay for those NES okay currently how

many people are working around or for

Alf So currently there is 15 people

inside the Alm team on the Liberty team

which is another company another token

another team totally there is nine

people um and in terms of community size

there is 100 core Channel nodes which

are the Contour of the network and 600

Computing resource nodes on the network

okay okay okay okay interesting so uh

thank you Jatan for your for your time

if you want to to to add something but

uh we will have um we we just had a very

nice conversation between those maybe

almost 40 minutes together uh I just

record the audience the fact that this

interview will be a huge part of the the

big well season so each weeks we are

focusing on the specific topics so this

week will be about AI uh specific Ai and

crypto so that will be a huge part of

this of this all season and uh what can

I wish you for the for the following

months once for the foreign weeks

Jonathan um well well the Liber toen

Just Launch so so so like so like a

successful launch for liber I guess okay

thank you very much okay thanks to all

thank you to to have be with us and uh

we wish you successful launch for the

for the libert token and and see you

later and good luck for for all of your

project Jonathan thanks thank you very

much