How DePIN can revolutionize the way AI works (With Jonathan Schemoul from Aleph.im)
Summary
TLDRDans cet entretien passionnant, Jonathan Schul, PDG d'Alf, partage ses visions sur l'intégration de l'IA et de la crypto dans un monde décentralisé. Il explique le concept de 'deepin', qui vise à offrir une infrastructure physique décentralisée, et discute de l'importance de la confidentialité et de la sécurité des données avec l'IA. Schul aborde également les défis et les opportunités de la création d'agents autonomes, soulignant le rôle clé des jetons dans l'incitation et la rémunération des participants du réseau. Le dialogue explore les synergies potentielles entre projets crypto et IA, et les perspectives d'avenir pour cette intersection innovante.
Takeaways
- 🌐 L'objectif principal de la plateforme est de combler le fossé entre l'espace crypto et le monde traditionnel tout en préservant les valeurs centrales du crypto et de la décentralisation.
- 🤖 L'importance de la décentralisation dans l'innovation financière et technologique est soulignée, avec l'AI et le secteur crypto comme moteurs principaux.
- 🗣️ Jonathan, le PDG d'Alf, a été introduit en tant que fondateur de la plateforme décentralisée AL, et a discuté de son parcours et de son implication dans l'espace crypto.
- 🎭 La différence entre être 'anon' et révéler son identité a été expliquée, mettant en évidence les avantages et les inconvénients de la décentralisation et de l'anonymat dans le développement de projets.
- 🔑 Le concept de 'deepin' a été introduit comme une nouvelle approche pour décentraliser l'infrastructure physique, permettant une existence décentralisée des infrastructures réelles.
- 🤖 L'importance de la décentralisation de l'IA a été discutée, notamment en termes de protection de la vie privée et de la sécurité des données face aux risques d'une IA centralisée.
- 🌐 L'AI décentralisée est présentée comme un moyen de prévenir une dystopie où les grandes entreprises pourraient avoir un contrôle total sur les données personnelles.
- 🛠️ Libert, une plateforme AI décentralisée, a été présentée, offrant des services similaires à ceux d'OpenAI mais sur un réseau décentralisé.
- 🔒 La confidentialité de l'inférence, avec des technologies telles que la génération de modèles chiffrés, est un progrès majeur qui sera disponible prochainement dans le secteur de l'IA décentralisée.
- 💡 L'importance de la tokenisation dans les projets de décentralisation a été soulignée, servant à créer des incitations, à payer pour des services spécifiques et à financer le développement de l'infrastructure.
- 🤝 L'équipe d'Alf et la communauté de nodes ont été brièvement présentés, mettant en évidence la taille et la structure du réseau derrière la technologie.
Q & A
Quel est le principal objectif de la plateforme .im?
-Le principal objectif de .im est de combler le fossé entre l'espace crypto qui motive l'innovation financière et technologique, et le monde traditionnel, tout en préservant les valeurs centrales du crypto et de la décentralisation, et de construire la confiance dans un monde toujours plus axé sur la confiance.
Pourquoi Jonathan Schul a-t-il choisi d'être anonyme au début de son projet?
-Jonathan a choisi d'être anonyme car il croyait que pour créer quelque chose de grand, il pourrait se faire des ennemis et il pourrait être préférable de rester anonyme. Cependant, en tant que responsable d'une entreprise qui cherche des fonds et fait des affaires, il a dû révéler son identité réelle pour éviter d'être confondu avec les arnaqueurs.
Qu'est-ce que le 'deepin' et comment est-il lié à l'infrastructure physique?
-Le 'deepin' est un terme qui fait référence à l'infrastructure physique décentralisée. Il s'agit d'une manière de donner à une infrastructure physique, qui existe dans la vie réelle, une existence alternative dans un monde décentralisé et de la rendre disponible de manière décentralisée.
Quels sont les avantages potentiels de la décentralisation de l'IA?
-La décentralisation de l'IA peut offrir des avantages tels que la préservation de la vie privée, la réduction des risques de ciblage et de surveillance par des acteurs malveillants ou même par de grands acteurs comme Open AI ou Microsoft, et l'évitement de scénarios dystopiques où une entité unique détient le contrôle total de la vie numérique et réelle des individus.
Quel est le rôle de l'IA dans le futur de la vie quotidienne, selon Jonathan?
-Selon Jonathan, dans les cinq ans, nous utiliserons tous l'IA pour notre vie quotidienne, avec des dispositifs comme des lunettes de Meta qui nous donnent des informations en temps réel sur ce que nous faisons et ce que nous voyons, agissant comme un assistant personnel qui voit et entend tout ce que nous faisons.
Pourquoi la confidentialité et l'end-to-end encryption sont-elles importantes pour l'IA décentralisée?
-La confidentialité et l'end-to-end encryption sont importantes pour s'assurer que les données personnelles et sensibles ne soient pas accessibles par des tiers non autorisés, protégeant ainsi contre les fuites de données et les abus de la vie privée.
Quel est le projet Liberti et comment il est lié à .im?
-Liberti est une plateforme d'IA construite sur le réseau de nuage décentralisé .im. Il offre une interface de chat similaire à Chat GPT et des API pour permettre aux utilisateurs de tirer parti des fonctionnalités d'IA décentralisé.
Quels sont les défis auxquels .im et Liberti AI sont confrontés actuellement?
-Les défis comprennent l'éducation du marché sur la valeur de la décentralisation de l'IA, la mise à l'échelle de l'infrastructure pour supporter les agents IA, et la création de normes pour assurer la sécurité et la confidentialité des données.
Quelle est la vision à long terme de Jonathan pour les agents IA décentralisés?
-La vision à long terme de Jonathan est de voir des agents IA entièrement autonomes opérant sur la blockchain, capables de prendre des décisions et d'effectuer des actions en fonction de leurs propres algorithmes et données, sans intervention humaine directe.
Comment .im et Liberti AI gèrent-ils la rémunération et les incitations pour les participants du réseau?
-Sur le réseau .im, les participants qui apportent des ressources de calcul sont rémunérés en utilisant le token AL, qui sert également à financer l'infrastructure du réseau et à payer les services de calcul. Pour Liberti AI, le token LTI est utilisé pour payer l'inférence IA et est échangé dynamiquement contre le token AL pour le calcul.
Outlines
😀 Introduction à la rencontre et contexte de la crypto
Le paragraphe introduit l'échange entre l'animateur et Jonathan Schul, le PDG d'Alf. L'objectif de la conférence est de combler le fossé entre l'espace crypto et le monde traditionnel tout en préservant les valeurs de décentralisation et de confiance. Jonathan explique son parcours, son départ anonyme dans le cryptoespace et la nécessité de révéler son identité pour établir la crédibilité de son projet, AL, une plateforme décentralisée pour le stockage de données.
🔒 Décentralisation et confidentialité dans l'IA
Dans ce paragraphe, Jonathan aborde l'importance de la décentralisation de l'IA pour préserver la vie privée et la sécurité des données. Il illustre les risques d'une IA centralisée en imaginant un avenir dystopique où des acteurs malveillants pourraient avoir un accès total à la vie des individus. Il souligne les avantages de la décentralisation pour éviter de telles scénarios et mentionne les projets en cours, tels que Libert, qui vise à offrir des services d'IA décentralisée avec des fonctionnalités de confidentialité.
🌐 Présentation de Libert, la plateforme d'IA décentralisée
Le paragraphe présente Libert, une plateforme d'IA construite sur le réseau cloud décentralisé .im. Il décrit la plateforme comme une alternative à Open AI, offrant des services d'IA avec une interface de chat similaire à Chat GPT. Jonathan détaille également la fonctionnalité de confidentialité des inférences, qui permet de générer du contenu sans que les nœuds du réseau puissent accéder aux données sensibles.
🛠 Fondamentaux d'Alf et expérience de Jonathan
Ici, Jonathan partage son parcours professionnel avant d'entrer dans le domaine de la crypto, en tant que développeur, designer et entrepreneur. Il explique comment sa passion pour la décentralisation l'a conduit à créer Alf, une plateforme décentralisée pour stocker des données, et discute de son rôle dans d'autres projets technologiques et startups.
🤖 L'avenir de l'IA décentralisée et les défis
Ce paragraphe explore les implications de l'IA décentralisée et les défis à relever pour atteindre un avenir où les agents IA autonomes pourraient fonctionner sur les blockchains. Jonathan discute de la nécessité de la décentralisation pour éviter les monopoles des grandes entreprises et de la création de tokens pour encourager la participation et la sécurité du réseau.
🏦 Agents IA et leur rôle dans la finance décentralisée
Jonathan explique le concept d'agents IA, des entités autonomes capables de prendre des décisions et d'effectuer des transactions en fonction des instructions données. Il envisage un avenir où ces agents pourraient participer à des systèmes financiers décentralisés, améliorant l'efficacité et réduisant la dépendance aux processus manuels.
🔑 Confidentialité et sécurité des données dans les réseaux décentralisés
Ce paragraphe se concentre sur la protection des données dans les réseaux décentralisés, en soulignant l'importance de l'encryption et de la fragmentation des données pour garantir la confidentialité. Jonathan mentionne les fonctionnalités de sécurité de Libert, qui permettent de stocker des documents chiffrés sur le réseau décentralisé.
🔮 Perspectives sur l'avenir de l'IA et la blockchain
Jonathan partage ses réflexions sur l'avenir de l'IA et de la blockchain, en discutant des cas d'utilisation pour les agents IA dans les systèmes de vote en ligne et les financements. Il aborde également la question de la standardisation et la potentielle création de blockchains dédiées à l'IA, bien qu'il préfère l'utilisation de réseaux existants avec des technologies de décentralisation.
🚀 Stratégies pour la croissance et la pérennité d'Alf et Libert
Dans ce paragraphe, Jonathan discute des plans pour assurer la croissance et la pérennité des projets Alf et Libert, en mettant l'accent sur l'éducation du marché, le développement de la confidentialité de l'IA et la création d'agents IA autonomes. Il exprime son optimisme quant à l'autofinancement de ces projets grâce à la mise en place de ces agents IA.
📊 Synthèse finale et perspectives pour les projets Alf et Libert
Ce paragraphe clôture l'entretien en résumant les points clés et en exprimant les souhaits de Jonathan pour le lancement réussi du token Libert. Il remercie l'animateur et l'audience, tout en soulignant l'importance de cette discussion dans le contexte de la saison de la conférence Big Well.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Crypto espace
💡Décentralisation
💡Confidentialité
💡Infrastructure physique
💡Tokenisation
💡IA décentralisée
💡Agents autonomes
💡Infrastructure de cloud décentralisée
💡Gratification (récompense)
💡Jeton (token)
Highlights
The main goal of the media is to bridge the gap between the crypto space and the traditional world without losing the core value of crypto and decentralization.
Jonathan, the CEO of ALF, discusses his journey from anonymity in the crypto space to revealing his identity to build trust.
The concept of 'deepin' is introduced as decentralized physical infrastructure, bringing real-life assets into the decentralized world.
Decentralized AI is presented as a solution to protect personal data and avoid dystopian scenarios of total surveillance by big tech companies.
Liberti, an AI platform built on a decentralized cloud network, is explained as a way to prevent single points of failure and data breaches.
Confidential inference, a feature to be released in summer, will allow AI model operations to be conducted securely without data exposure.
The importance of decentralization in AI is emphasized to prevent the misuse of personal data and to maintain privacy.
ALF's background is discussed, including Jonathan's previous experiences in development, design, and the creation of various startups.
The need for a token in decentralized projects is explained for incentivizing participation and bootstrapping the economy.
The potential of AI agents to perform actions autonomously, such as trading bots or intelligent agents with access to large language models, is explored.
The challenges of achieving a truly decentralized network and the importance of encryption for data privacy are highlighted.
The future of AI on blockchain is envisioned, including the use of AI agents in DAOs and the potential for autonomous digital entities.
The discussion touches on the need for standardization in the AI and blockchain sector to foster synergies between different projects.
The potential for AI to revolutionize traditional finance by providing digital-native solutions is presented.
The current state of AI is assessed, acknowledging that while AI itself is not new, the current advancements are at a pivotal stage.
Strategies for survival in the crypto startup space are discussed, focusing on the importance of developing a working product and educating the market.
The team size and community involvement in ALF and Liberti projects are shared, giving insight into the scale of the operations.
Transcripts
hi everyone thanks a lot to be with us
for this big talk from the big well as a
media our main goal is to bridge the gap
between the crypto space which is
actually driving the financial
Innovation a why not the AI Innovation
and the traditional world without losing
the core value of crypto and
decentralization and at the end to build
trust in a still trust world and today
we are talking about hii and crypto I am
very pleased for this topic to host
Jonathan schul who is the CEO of Alf my
first question Jonathan as usual very
simple who are
you um well hello thanks thanks for like
having me today uh so who I am uh who am
I um I'm Jan
sha on telegram Twitter Etc why do I
have two names that's where because I
started unon yeah exactly and when you
are on Anon you like have an name and
then I docked myself when when I created
the AL project which is a decentralized
cloud and so that's who I am I'm the
founder of
al. um and and I'm a former Unown in the
crypto space so what what do you mean by
an what does it mean for you uh for me
it was like I didn't disclose my real
identity at start because I really
believe that if you want to create
something big uh you might make some
enemies uh while doing it and it might
have been better to stay Anonymous
fully but when you are working as a
company and where you are raising money
when you are doing a well lot of stuff
you can't because there has been too
many scammers and are who have passed as
an anonymous person then I like had to
dox myself which is give my real
identity okay okay okay so uh by the way
my question was or are you but maybe
that's a better answer from from you
Jonathan so let's um let's go straight
to the points you know we we hear a lot
about this word you know it's like deing
deep in you know uh can you explain in a
simpl way why is what is the
sorry so deepin is a new name for
something that existed for a long time
um before deep in we just talked about
decentralization we just talked about
tokenization so deeping in itself is
decentralized physical
infrastructure uh it's a
way uh to make a physical infrastructure
something that lives in real life having
an alter ego in a
decentralized world and to be available
in a decentralized way uh I don't know
if you remember in the 2017 Ico C people
were talking about decentralizing Uber
decentralizing R
decentralizing this or that most of
these project were grift uh by grift I
mean stuff where where they just raise
money and didn't do anything now we are
at the phase where people are really
doing it and that's the world deep in
narrative we
see um Telecom networks being
decentralized we see WiFi meshes being
decentralized we see Cloud Network which
are basically computers that you make
available on a decentralized network and
and and this is deepin for the cloud we
also see deepin for a which is
essentially the same uh we see deepin
for a lot of stuff and if you go that
way tokenization of assets of real world
assets is deepin as well okay
interesting so um uh when we are talking
about AI you know what is the value of
the of the DP why we have to
decentralized AI or to put AI you know
on the decentralized network you know is
it's still bad today or you know what
what's what's really the the the core
value of of this if you only look at the
pure functional aspect AI works really
well in a centralized way
uh that's why it's being it's being done
that way right now if you look at open
AI it's huge data centers with a lot of
gpus which are connecting which are
connected using what you call envying uh
uh on the graphic cards themselves um
which are not graphic anymore but that's
another story uh that's Co that works
but now let's look at the issue from
another um we are in in five years time
we are all using AI for like our
everyday's life um we have glasses from
meta which are watching whatever we are
doing uh and giving us information about
it and giving us
more more like uh it would be like a
personal assistant which always sees and
hears what you are seeing and hearing uh
oh tell me AI where did I put my
keys this morning you have left them on
the table okay cool I can go and grab
them um
earlier I talked with my dad uh we said
that we would meet but when oh you would
you will meet next Tuesday at 3 pm
because it remembers everything well
that's cool that works in a centralized
way that's really great now uh what
happens if someone get access to like
that D and sees whatever you have seen
whatever you have heard whatever you
have said whatever you have thought and
asked to your AI continuously then they
have every single thing about you and
that's a pure or story and not only if a
malicious actor gets access to it
because that will happen it will always
happen but the Temptation from a single
big actor like open AI
Microsoft or like whoever else because
there is because the a war is there for
personal data
um the world Temptation for one single
actor to like have access to your world
life world digital and real life then
it's a total Horror Story and it's
totally dystopian and I think that we
might be five to 10 years away of that
even less um and if we fight back and
put and put AI not on centralized big
servers and centralized B comp companies
but but on decentralized clouds like.im
plus libert which is the AI project on
top then you can fight back and avoid
that that worst case scenario because in
that worst case scenario I don't know if
you have seen um there was an episode uh
of of that series which is called Black
Mirror where someone could could sum on
a digital twin of its deceased
girlfriend well well I I I I don't
remember if it was a thisas girlfriend
or something like that thisas member of
his family but he could sumon it and
discuss with it and and I have a real
world twin of that person well we aren't
that far from
it and we could get digital clones of
ourselves in the
wild and I don't know I'm not really
happy about that and having my whole
life given away to a company either and
there would be our story and we can't
trust any company with that we are
already trusting Google with a small
part of that it's already problematic
imagine with everything so like that's
why AI plus dpin is a real matchmate in
heaven because if you can decentralize
that world centralized infrastructure
and run AI on top and and stop logging
and do end to end encryption encryption
for your data that like only you can
access etc etc etc we are good and how
it's working uh currently where we are
about this those promises you
know well um libert for example is
running on top of a. Im so like whenever
you are doing uh compation requests uh
it it distributes it on the network so
like no not single node can get access
to like your data um what will
be announced this summer uh and will be
available summer uh is confidential
inference and confidential inference
will allow you to like do the World Tech
generation or image generation or video
generation or like audio generation
whatever the generation part of generate
tvi be done on a decentralized network
where no one can see what's happening
inside your inference uh model so like
so like not even the node owner can look
inside the memory and see what's
happening because everything is
encrypted
uh from top to bottom no one can see it
so like this will be available this
summer so we are pretty close um the
model themselves we aren't close totally
to what has been
demoed
by pen Ai and overs but they aren't
released either in the white so I think
that we are pretty close already okay
can you just describe what is it Liberty
a because you you you mention it but uh
for the audience maybe it's not so clear
what is liberti maybe yes so like so
like liberi is an AI platform built on
top of the l. decentralized Cloud
Network you come check it at Liber
ai. and there is even a chat interface
just like chat GPT which is chat.
liberio so whatever you can do with chat
GPT you can do it with it uh it's an AI
platform which also has API just like
open AI has apis
I like to describe the world interaction
between al. IM and libert as just like
the interaction between open Ai and
Microsoft Azure Microsoft Azure is
actually the cloud infrastructure al. is
the uh is decentralized cloud
infrastructure and libert AI is the AI
platform on top just like open AI is an
AI platform which uses Azure Computing
behive and DP can make AI more efficient
or or not because you talk about the the
the decentralization you know about the
the data the most um but it could be
more efficient on the on the dep maybe
Network or blockchain but I guess it's a
it's a it's a blockchain or that could
be by the way a public blockchain or
private
blockchain so uh here it's not a
blockchain it's the network which is
separate from from blockchains but uses
the world the world Primitives of
blockchains because when we're talking
about blockchain we are talking about a
set of Technologies one which is a
ledger uh which is made from blocks
where each blocks references the
previous and like if you want to like
change the past you need to change the
whole chain of blocks that's the main
blockchain part but in reality we are
using ashing we are using elliptic curve
graphy we are using addresses system
account based uh ledgers Etc the time
Network and like over clo and over
decentralized cloes most of them are
using all these Technologies but not
necessarily the chain of blocks part
because onm we use blockchain but we
write on existing blockchains for that
security part we don't maintain our own
chain of blocks but we are messaging we
have hashing we have signatures we have
everything that um that a blockchain has
but we don't have that chain of blocks
because we use the security of ethereum
for that because largely enough for us
okay so you are linked directly uh with
etherum you know teally it's correct to
say that yes uh but we write once every
hour a list of messages of Al on
ethereum as one single transaction it's
a bit like a roll of or Layer Two or
layer zero okay so it just just it's
it's pretty enough but it's like to have
some proof on chain and to to prove that
you are decentralized and you can check
the data on chain so that's exactly okay
okay well you you need to like get the
data from the network and verify yeah
yeah yeah exactly okay okay so just you
mention it uh at the beginning at the
start of this interview uh Jonathan but
can you just summarize uh what Alf is
doing and what is the background of of
Alf you know and your background by the
way where where where are you from
before to fall in this in this crypto
space uh well um before being into
crypto I've been a developer for quite a
long time I've also been a designer I've
also been a marketer a long time ago
that wasn't really my my gig uh I did I
did studies of project management and of
of global economics um but I've always
been developing aide I've also been
doing Electronics so like at one time I
was doing um freelance developer work
for society General a long time ago I
also been um creating lead panels like
you know like like those advertisement
um LED Billboards I created a world
technology to like make that work back
then we we like all the um all the
circuit boards Etc so like designing iot
Hardware um I've been creating a few
startups one which was called paroni
which is which which is a
bar bar and restaurant searching
platform in Paris long time ago so it
was not in crypto it's not in crypto at
all it was more like web to electronics
and stuff and when I came into crypto I
was really interested because there was
this world decentralization thing it was
a bit before all that 2017 bubble but
when it came I I really saw the
point okay there was gter but I really
saw the point on what they were wanting
to do um and so I really joined it
started developing Etc and I came to a
point where I wanted to do a big social
network which which I never did because
I realized that that that I was missing
breaks I couldn't store pictures I
couldn't store videos I couldn't store
text on the blockchain easily and I was
like okay I need to make a platform for
that and then I started creating the
platform which we became al. oh really
so it was like a uh nft platform for
example because you
know it's possible to another way of
nfts to store some some pictures on
chain or some o
working so um right now there is a trend
of having nfts which are storing
everything on chain but it costs a lot
and and what they do is that they are
generating on SBG with a picture Etc in
reality your nft only points to a
metadata URL which is started somewhere
on the server people use itfs for that
but what the com do is to point to like
on v machine and generate those metadata
on the Fly and change them based on what
happens on chain and of chain that's
what we are doing with Ubisoft for
example like Dynamic nfts on the network
oh interesting okay okay okay okay so
just let's back to this to to the main
topic of today you know there is
indubitably like an intersection of of
AI in crypto so we are seeing that right
now so you know there is lots of like U
marketing or we can say like
you know so if you have just some
advises to to give you know to AV this
kind of of marketing of you
know when people want to buy like a
token or to you know to to invest on
some project but for example like Alf
you know so how is it possible to see is
it marketing a scam or a real
project uh what you want to invest in
that's a good question and that's hard
well I know when I look at project if
it's real or not you need to check if
it's really decentralized
if they are using open a API behind
because a lot of them are um there are a
few exceptions to like that there is
libert AI with the LTI token obviously
there is also Venice AI uh which is
really decentralized as well even they
they won't have that confidential
inference thing there is also B tensor
which is
another uh real
thing uh if even if they had a security
issue so like I wouldn't recommend
buying it right now because of that
issue perhaps wait for stuff to step to
to like settle um it's really hard there
I would say that the project that are
really doing decentralized AI there are
less than five or six on the market
right now so yeah so be careful because
most of them are just uh okay
okay and you know um why we need most of
the time a token why this kind of
project are launching a token you know
for for for you with with Alf you know
why you need a token for your for your
infrastructure and how it's working well
uh I can also answer on both Al and
libert AI because we launched a token
for Liberty AI as well which is the LTI
token on base
um on on B Layer Two of of con Bas so
that's yeah
yeah it
launched um quite recently so like
like on un on Unis V3 on base um so why
do we need a token that's a good
question there is a few parts tokens are
really useful for one thing which is
incentives let's say you were to use uh
stable coin you could say people put
computing power they're rewarding stable
coin when people use
it why not um then how do you uh how
does your network validation and control
gets paid it should get a cut of that in
St coin but the issue is that if you
don't have enough computer at start
enough demand then those controllers
won't work and if those controllers
won't work your network won't start so
you will need to pay people for nothing
in usdc
and your
St uh because you for decentralization
you need controllers you need validators
you need a wall infrastructure in place
that token un ironically solves because
if your token has a value then you can
pay service for that token and then it
can bootstrap that whole economy and
make it work so that's one part of the
reason token makes sense there
um and and it's also a perfect utility
token there uh for that
Network
um in which way you know it's like uh
you know you you talk about the token
you know to like an utility token why
it's a utility
token because you will be able to like
pay for specific actions on the network
with that token specific
ically uh and everyone is accepting the
the same money and and and and the same
currency on that network uh and that
currency also pays the controllers etc
etc etc and the good part today with
defi is that you can seamlessly move
between tokens and you even have bricks
like super fluid which allows you to
create payment streams exchange inside
the payment stream automatic isolate
let's say if you want to pay in Stables
because you don't want to pay in that
specific token you can start a payment
in usdc it gets transferred into Al Etc
and then it gets paid another part which
is interesting in
AI is that stable coins generally have
POS functions and they also have
Blacklist functions for regulatory
reasons um if we go a bit further on the
AI decentralization we want to have
agents we want to have agents that can
pay for their own Computing that can
start and they can run as long as they
have money and they they can even be a
dow themselves you could for example
invest in an AI agent that is making
money and then you would have shares of
that AI agent in the future right why
not that AI agent needs to pay for
servers it need to pay for servers in a
specific curreny and that's where the
LTI token is used for example is that
it's used to pay for AI inference in a
specific token which is used for AI
inference that gets exchange dynamically
into a for computing and then the
Computing provider can get them even
exchange themselves into usdc that's
they prefer wow the end okay uh the the
thing is that since we have tokens on
the exchange Dynamic and so having a
token is not an issue if you are in that
kind of space um and so as I was saying
for like agents totally makes sense to
the specific token to pay for AI
inference to but that can be Lo in
certain ways for agents
Etc
um that's my opinion for me it makes
sense and that's why we needed that LTA
token as well okay interesting
interesting so you just talk about uh AI
agents you know um can you explain a
little bit more about this because it's
it's not like confused but you talk
about okay an agent could be for example
a DA that's quite interesting so just
can you explain a little bit more about
this you know yeah
sure so
um let's take it from the beginning um
an agent is basically something that you
start
and takes action for you when when you
are not available to take those
actions uh D agent could just be a
trading bot could just be a process that
you run that looks on chain uh for like
the state of a pool for example and and
like if the price drops be under 10
cents it would place a by order for you
that's a you don't need a for you can do
it um if you want to for it to run for
long and private Keys you need to trust
your server or use confidential VMS from
the network and then this run and no one
can see your private inside BL now
intelligent agents what are they is the
same thing except that it calls a large
language model in between and that large
language model will have natural
language um rules uh let's say you can
give it a goal if if we stay that okay I
want you to find where I can make money
with that token on that pool please then
your agent will register to late events
from that pool look for price and trade
on it based on whatever it deems
interesting your agent could go one
level further and generate code to like
do it and and retrieve data more
efficiently your
could even start sub agent if it start
becoming profitable on compay for more
Computing start sub agents on over pools
start of agents that that study on
Google and on the internet all the
market movements for the last couple of
years for that asset and understand why
it is doing
that okay interesting your and your
agent like start of Agents etc etc etc
okay but currently uh
nowadays um those networks you know are
are enough of scale scalable to to host
some agent or some you know some some
infrastructure like that you know some
action yep yep
um I will have a talk at
itcc uh and my talk at itcc is about how
to use large language models as a tool
for smart contract TR developers and
it's exactly about that basically what
what what what I'm demoing in that talk
is uh how to have something that listen
to events fits it into an
llm and that LM can take actions and and
and it has what you call functions
available to it and functions are just
smart contract gos on that smart
contract and he takes action based on
what he wants to do or not and on the
prompt and rules and that's already
doable
on you can already do it work okay
interesting and you know just to to go
back to the decentralization about dein
you know oh it it's store you know in
the network you know because okay now
the problem is like we are not enough
decentralized of course but where is it
store those data on the on the
deepin so on deepin
um it's sted on a network of nodes okay
you need to take into account that
everything will be public unless you're
using te Etc and then you have some
chance for it not to be public just take
into account that it will be public but
actually if it's stored on centralized
net on centralized third parties one day
to leak as well just look at class pass
etc etc all like all the acts that
happen data have has a total tendency to
leak data always
leaks that's that's just like water
water leaks well thata leaks as well
um
now one thing that we can do to prevent
issues when we are doing that is to
encrypt uh um so on on Liber for example
when you are storing documents inside
your knowledge DB uh which is the
database which is available to you that
you can share later if you want the
sharing part is not live yet but will
come um it encrypts everything on your
browser for your private key stores it
on a decentralized network encrypted and
and split in a lot of small place Parts
when you requesting data gets everything
decrypted and gets it un encrypted on
your browser okay but only for you uh so
it Lees on a decentralized network but
totally encrypted and split etc etc okay
okay okay interesting and you know uh to
talk about the future of uh like the
completely onchain AI uh what will be
the main use cases because you you talk
about some some agent you know but why
we need except of course the
decentralization why we need an AI on on
blockchain you know what could be the
other use cases about
this um those um um Dio are are a
perfect use case because a lot of the
Dio today are slow why because people
don't want to take action because it
needs work etc etc if you have ai agent
that represent you and can take action
on your behalf and to which you are
given clear instructions then the world
Dio can take actions based on all its
members States and what they think
that's one part another part which is is
simply that if we get into a case where
we have
agents uh agents and Banks and
traditional Finance doesn't work you
need manual verification all the time
you need to contact the bank you need to
go there physically to verify
transaction they call you etc etc it
doesn't work with AIS AIS are are
natively digital and and in the natively
digital world what is the natively
digital money it's blockchain it's table
coins it's crypto
tokens interesting okay and uh you know
there is like um you know what what is
missing to my point of view about this
this market and this this sector
especially Ai and and blockchain is some
standardization you know so where we are
about this and uh you know uh what like
uh synergies can emerge between
different AI crypto projects uh in in a
close future or in the future can we
imagine a general blockchain you know a
public blockchain
where only dedicate to the to to AI
project you know I one thing that would
make sense uh to have a blockchain
dedicated to that uh you could have a
lot of blockchains that are today used
for that using dpin because dpin is
there for that it's another layer on top
of blockchains why would you need
separate blockchains uh blockchain for
humans blockchain for machines just use
the same I don't really see a reason for
which we would have to separate them
because a is just human
with infrastructure
behind and humans that need
infrastructure to live okay okay okay
but you know you describe a very
interesting future uh with some agent
with some some AI with with some banks
solving lots of problems right now we we
we are seeing um how far we are about
this future you just describe because
you know uh that just the beginning most
of the time we are all the time saying
we are so early so maybe that's not an
exception for this uh for this part of
the of the crypto sector so how far we
are about about all of this you know and
what kind of challenges remained to
reach this uh this future so AI is not
new uh large language models might look
new they they
aren't uh what do you mean by
that people are working on AI for the
last 100 years
uh even before it was on
computers uh if you read azimov he was
describing a lot of the problematics
that we have if you are reading a lot of
these science fiction books they are
describing a lot of the problems we have
um if you
even read about about the philosopher
from hundred of years ago they were
already thinking about it the world
Golem thing is that is an AI that is
that that that that that has broke free
um
so it's not new it's a problematic that
we have had in our minds for hundred of
year uh so we are ear in the current
state of thing and when repl AI we are
definitely ear uh in AI in general
we are late we are at a phase where it
starts
working uh and it's pretty crazy because
it means that it's of year of advances
and new technology that are coming
together to get to like that point
um so we aren't early on
AI uh we are early on web fre pleas AI
which is quite
interesting um and to see the world time
frame I have no idea what we say is that
we tend to like to like overestimate
what happens in the next few years and
we tend to underestimate what happens in
20 30 years uh
so given that I would say in the next
five to 10 years but perhaps longer or
perhaps
shorter uh but I definitely think that
in the next five to 10 years the world
will be
completely different due to that okay
okay okay and you know according to that
you just saying we are early uh what's
your plan to to survive you know because
uh the one of the main question about
lots of crypto startup it's to find some
cash you know to to survive you know so
what's your plan about this and what
kind of uh of businesses you can develop
around the AI currently uh to work I
don't know with some institutional
player or some banks or or some AI
traditional
companies well confidential AI is is an
important one providing confidential
Computing for AI uh it's something that
we are working on um another one which
is decentralization of AI and showing
the value of it but it needs a lot of
Education that's why I'm here as well uh
and that's mostly it like people
understanding the value and using it Etc
uh developing building getting it ready
getting it working and to be honest if
we get to that goal of having totally
free agents that are working on the
blockchain and that paper own Computing
funding won't be a real issue because it
will fund
itself ah okay interesting interesting
so completely autonom
agent yeah that's my goal we will see if
it works or not okay okay okay and Jan
you you talk about um you know to bring
if you bring some computing power you
know to the network you will be reward
for this so just can you explain because
in this case a token for example is very
useful yeah uh so on the L Network for
example you can bring two kind of of
nodes one which is the Cent node which
are the validators of the network and
the token makes sense also because you
need to hold the specific amount of
tokens to be able to create one people
need to stake on your note to activate
it and and if you behave badly they will
unstake and you will get
deactivated which is the world game
theory about tokens as well which is
also important on what we are saying
about tokens um and the others is
Computing resource node which are the
which are the no that are actually run
the workloads they need to be vetted by
those cor Channel nodes and they start
earning actually good money for it um
it's a few hundred per server that you
per month per server that that you bring
to the network so it's quite good uh and
the token also serves to finance that
pay for those NES okay currently how
many people are working around or for
Alf So currently there is 15 people
inside the Alm team on the Liberty team
which is another company another token
another team totally there is nine
people um and in terms of community size
there is 100 core Channel nodes which
are the Contour of the network and 600
Computing resource nodes on the network
okay okay okay okay interesting so uh
thank you Jatan for your for your time
if you want to to to add something but
uh we will have um we we just had a very
nice conversation between those maybe
almost 40 minutes together uh I just
record the audience the fact that this
interview will be a huge part of the the
big well season so each weeks we are
focusing on the specific topics so this
week will be about AI uh specific Ai and
crypto so that will be a huge part of
this of this all season and uh what can
I wish you for the for the following
months once for the foreign weeks
Jonathan um well well the Liber toen
Just Launch so so so like so like a
successful launch for liber I guess okay
thank you very much okay thanks to all
thank you to to have be with us and uh
we wish you successful launch for the
for the libert token and and see you
later and good luck for for all of your
project Jonathan thanks thank you very
much
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