Engineering Manager Mock Interview (with Square Director of Engineering): Time You Made a Mistake

Summary

In this Exponent Engineering Manager Mock Interview, host Kevin Way interviews Rahul, a Director of Engineering at Square. Rahul shares his career journey, from his start at Oracle to leading an engineering team at Square. The conversation focuses on a pivotal leadership question: recounting a mistake. Rahul discusses his past defensive attitude towards suggestions and the transformational impact of adopting a 'yes, and' approach from improv theater. He emphasizes the importance of relationship building and communication in leadership roles and offers insights into giving and receiving feedback constructively.

Takeaways

• 😀 Rahul is a Director of Engineering at Square, leading a team of engineering managers and engineers working on point of sales.
• 🏢 Rahul started at Square in 2016 as an individual contributor and gradually stepped into the engineering manager role as the team grew.
• 🌱 Prior to Square, Rahul was a CTO at a startup in San Francisco, growing the product engineering org to 15-20 people.
• 📚 Rahul began his career at Oracle, working on databases, and later worked at an e-commerce startup in Palo Alto.
• 🎓 Rahul has a Masters in Computer Science from Stanford, having moved to the US as a grad student.
• 💡 The interview focuses on a leadership question about a time when Rahul made a mistake, highlighting the importance of relationship building and communication.
• 🚫 Rahul admits to having a defensive attitude towards suggestions, which he later realized was a mistake that hindered his growth and relationships.
• 🔄 Rahul learned to adopt a 'yes, and' philosophy from improv, which transformed his approach to communication and relationships, instead of starting with 'no'.
• 🤝 Rahul emphasizes the importance of being a good listener and ensuring that others feel heard in discussions, rather than immediately dismissing ideas.
• 📈 Rahul advises that showing a growth mentality is crucial in interviews for EM or Director roles, demonstrating self-awareness and the ability to improve.
• 📚 Rahul recommends having a framework-based thinking and providing concrete examples from past experiences to impress interviewers.

Q & A

What is the purpose of the mock interview in the video?

The purpose of the mock interview is to practice and demonstrate how to answer leadership questions that are typically asked in engineering manager or product manager interviews.

Who is the guest in the mock interview and what is his current role?

The guest in the mock interview is Rahul, who is currently the Director of Engineering at Square.

How long has Rahul been at Square and what roles has he held there?

Rahul has been at Square for about six years. He started as an individual contributor and eventually stepped into the engineering manager role, leading the entire engineering organization.

What was Rahul's role before joining Square?

Prior to Square, Rahul was a CTO at a startup in San Francisco, where he grew the product engineering organization for about four years.

What is the leadership question asked in the mock interview?

The leadership question asked in the mock interview is 'Tell me about a time when you made a mistake.'

What mistake did Rahul admit to making in his career?

Rahul admitted to having a defensive attitude towards suggestions and not giving enough priority to relationship building and communication.

What feedback did Rahul receive from his manager that led to a change in his approach?

Rahul received feedback from his manager about his negative tone in discussions and the need to re-evaluate his approach to communication.

What technique did Rahul adopt to improve his communication and relationships?

Rahul adopted the 'Yes, and...' technique from improvisation to improve his communication, which involves building on others' ideas rather than immediately rejecting them.

How did Rahul handle the realization that he needed to change his approach?

Rahul took the feedback to heart, introspected, and quickly made a change in his approach to communication, which had a positive impact on his relationships and career.

What advice does Rahul give for handling feedback and self-improvement?

Rahul advises taking feedback from trusted sources seriously, self-introspecting, and making quick changes to address the issues raised.

What tips does Rahul offer for those interviewing for an engineering manager or director of engineering role?

Rahul suggests exhibiting a growth mentality, having a framework-based thinking, organizing thoughts succinctly, and backing up theoretical points with concrete examples from past experiences.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Introduction and Personal Journey

The video starts with an introduction by Kevin Way, the host, who welcomes Rahul, the guest, for a mock interview focused on leadership. Rahul, a Director of Engineering at Square, briefly introduces himself, sharing his professional journey that includes roles at a startup, an e-commerce company, and Oracle, before joining Square six years ago. He discusses his progression from an individual contributor to a leadership role and his experience working on point of sale systems.

05:02

🤔 Reflecting on a Crucial Mistake

Rahul shares an experience where he recognized a mistake in his approach to relationship building and communication. He admits to having a defensive attitude towards suggestions, which he realized was hindering his growth and the team's productivity. This self-awareness was a turning point for him, leading to a change in his communication style, adopting the 'yes, and' philosophy from improv to foster better relationships and collaboration.

10:03

💡 Implementing the 'Yes, and' Philosophy

Rahul elaborates on the transformation he underwent by adopting the 'yes, and' approach. He discusses the impact this change had on his relationships, career, and overall approach to problem-solving. He provides an example of how he shifted from a negative stance to a more constructive one when faced with suggestions or ideas, even when they had been tried and failed before. This approach allowed him to be more open to ideas while also considering past experiences.

15:04

🗣️ Handling Feedback and Growth Mindset

Rahul talks about a pivotal conversation with his manager that led to self-reflection and change. He emphasizes the importance of feedback from trusted sources and the need for introspection. As a leader, he advises on how to handle similar situations with team members, suggesting direct yet respectful communication, providing resources, and sharing personal experiences to foster growth and self-awareness.

📘 Tips for Aspiring Engineering Managers

In the final part of the script, Rahul offers advice for those interviewing for engineering management roles. He stresses the importance of demonstrating a growth mindset, structured thinking, and the ability to provide concrete examples from one's experience. He also discusses the importance of building positive relationships and taking responsibility for one's actions, which are key aspects that interviewers look for in candidates.

Keywords

💡Engineering Manager

An Engineering Manager is a professional who oversees a team of engineers, managing both technical and personnel aspects. In the script, the interviewee, Rahul, is a Director of Engineering at Square, implying a leadership role where he manages engineering managers and their teams. This role is crucial in the video as it sets the context for discussing leadership qualities and management styles.

💡Director of Engineering

A Director of Engineering is a senior leadership position typically responsible for overseeing the engineering department and ensuring the successful execution of technical projects. Rahul mentions his role as a Director of Engineering at Square, highlighting his experience in leading teams and making strategic decisions, which is central to the discussion about leadership and mistake management.

💡Leadership Question

A leadership question is a type of inquiry designed to assess a candidate's ability to lead, manage, and handle complex situations. In the video, the interview focuses on a leadership question about making mistakes, aiming to evaluate Rahul's approach to problem-solving and his ability to learn from errors, which is a key aspect of effective leadership.

💡Relationship Building

Relationship building refers to the process of establishing and maintaining positive connections with others, which is essential in a work environment. Rahul discusses the importance of relationship building in leadership, mentioning how he initially struggled with prioritizing relationships and effective communication, which is a critical theme in the video.

💡Communication

Communication is the act of conveying information, ideas, or feelings through speech, signals, writing, or behavior. The script emphasizes the importance of clear and effective communication in leadership, particularly in the context of Rahul's past mistakes where he admits to having a defensive attitude towards suggestions, which hindered his relationships and team dynamics.

💡Defensive Attitude

A defensive attitude is a mindset where one is inclined to protect oneself from criticism or attack, often by being resistant to new ideas or feedback. Rahul reflects on his past defensive attitude towards suggestions, which he identifies as a mistake that affected his relationships and career growth, illustrating a key lesson in the video about the importance of openness and adaptability.

💡Feedback

Feedback is information provided by someone about how their actions or ideas are perceived by others, often used to improve performance or behavior. In the video, Rahul receives feedback from his manager about his negative approach to discussions, which leads to a pivotal moment of self-awareness and change in his leadership style.

💡Self-Awareness

Self-awareness is the ability to recognize and understand one's own emotions, motivations, and actions. Rahul's realization of his defensive attitude and the impact it had on his relationships is an example of self-awareness, which is highlighted as a crucial component of personal and professional growth in the video.

💡Yes And

Yes And is a concept from improvisational theater where one accepts and builds upon what another person has said or done. Rahul adopts the 'Yes And' philosophy to improve his communication style, moving from a negative to a more positive and constructive approach, which is a key transformation in his leadership journey and a central point in the video.

💡Burnout

Burnout is a state of emotional, physical, and mental exhaustion caused by excessive and prolonged stress. Rahul mentions the possibility of burnout as a contributing factor to his past defensive attitude, highlighting the impact of personal well-being on professional behavior and decision-making in the video.

💡Product Development

Product development is the process of creating a new product or improving an existing one, involving various stages from concept to market launch. Rahul's role at Square involves overseeing product development, and his discussion about mistakes and learning emphasizes the iterative nature of this process and the importance of collaboration and feedback.

Highlights

Introduction of Rahul, Director of Engineering at Square.

Rahul's journey from an individual contributor to a leadership role.

Rahul's experience at a startup as CTO and growing the engineering team.

Rahul's early career in Silicon Valley and his work at Oracle.

Rahul's realization of the importance of relationship building in leadership.

Mistake of having a defensive attitude towards suggestions.

Impact of negative communication on career growth and team dynamics.

Feedback from manager on the need to re-evaluate communication approach.

Adoption of the 'yes and' philosophy from improv to improve communication.

Example of shifting from a negative to a positive response in meetings.

The transformative effect of the 'yes and' approach on relationships and career.

Rahul's advice on handling feedback and self-awareness.

Importance of trust and respect in receiving constructive feedback.

Rahul's approach to giving feedback to his team members.

Recommendation of books like 'Crucial Conversations' and 'Nonviolent Communication'.

Emphasizing the need for a growth mentality in leadership roles.

Advice on structuring thoughts and providing concrete examples in interviews.

Avoiding public criticism and blame in professional interactions.

Encouragement to acknowledge mistakes and demonstrate self-improvement.

Transcripts

tell me about a time when you made a

mistake

[Music]

hey everyone welcome back to another

exponent engineering manager mock

interview my name is kevin way and i'm

super delighted to have rahul as a guest

on today's mock interview rahul is a

director of engineering at square and

we're going to be doing a leadership

question today um before we get into

like the actual mock interview i'm going

to have rahul just briefly introduce

himself and maybe tell us a little bit

about some of the things he's worked on

my name is rahul i am currently in the

role of director of engineering at

square we technically don't have titles

but uh basically i'm leading a team of

several engineering managers

and and engineers working on one of our

point of sales

i've been at square for about six years

at this point i started in 2016.

um i came on board as an ic and and

worked

on this team and then eventually

sort of stepped into the em role

uh i was there for several years as the

team grew i i i was given the

opportunity to sort of uh lead the

entire engineering org which is the role

i'm in today

um

but so yeah it's been six fruitful years

prior to square i was at a startup i was

a cto

at at a startup in san francisco um for

about four years grew the product

engineering org

um

about 15-20 people until you know we had

business wasn't doing too well and we

had to sort of um reduce our size to a

little bit uh prior to prior to this

startup i was at an e-commerce startup

in palo alto uh as an engineer first

couple years and then prior to that i

started my

uh professional career in silicon valley

at oracle

working on on

on databases i guess

um

my journey to the us

i came here as a grad student uh got my

masters in cs at stanford um in 08.

awesome thanks for your

introducing yourself there and it's

super cool to hear like your journey and

how you got to where you are today

so like i mentioned we're going to do a

leadership type question today um

basically like these kind of questions

are asked in em or even pm interviews um

in theory they're used to judge like

maybe your performance or um how you

think and how you approach problems

um so yeah let's jump right into it so

rahul this is the question i'd like to

ask you today

tell me about a time when you made a

mistake

you know i made so many mistakes it's

kind of a little hard to sort of pick

the right one but but i think one um

one

crucial component of of being a people

leader is sort of relationship building

and and in terms of mistakes it brings

me to a point where

i feel like i wasn't i wasn't treating

my relationships uh i wasn't giving them

high priority enough

and also the communication around that

was was messy i mean this was back

before way before covert when we were

all in the same office right so

technically it's easier to communicate

when you're sort of in in in person and

so this is even more crucial now instead

of the remote first world but sort of

the mistake i want to talk about is

i i had developed a bit of a defensive

attitude towards suggestions so even

talking to my boss or other

cross-functional um stakeholders like my

pm partners or designers

almost every suggestion or every thought

started with a no

and here's why not right

and so i for some reason i don't know

whether it was ego or whether it was

burn out or or

you know it it's hard for me to sort of

figure out exactly why that was but it

led to it led to a point in my career

where

i started seeing that hey i'm going to

stall

my own growth if i don't build up a

stronger working relationship with these

folks who are sort of crucial to

to not just my career but also the

product development

aspect of my day-to-day job

and i got this feedback from my manager

like hey listen i think you need to sort

of re-evaluate how you're coming to

these discussions where you you start

off with a completely

negative tone

and

and i really took that to heart and and

since then

i think i have

reevaluated how to sort of talk to

people in in when making a suggestion

right i mean i think that the

the sort of

the mistake i made was sort of being too

negative and sort of not approaching

communication the right way and the the

learning i got from that was

or sort of the the

changes i made to my approach were to

use the

yes and

a philosophy and this comes from improv

where you know

in an improv setting you kind of you

know whatever this other person is doing

you you carry forth that thread you

don't end it

and so

moving from a no and here's why i went

to a yes and and i feel like that

had a somewhat of a magical

transformation not just to my

relationship with people not just to

sort of how i made others feel in my

presence

but also to

you know my career and various other

things i think

um i think that's sort of a big

realization to me uh i wasn't being

self-aware enough when somebody showed

me the mirror that's when i realized and

i think that the technique i used was

the yes and and that has helped me quite

a bit

so can you give me an example of like

when you used a no and when you use like

a yes and like were these situations

when other teams were coming to you to

ask for a dependency for example

right so i mean i work on the product

team so we are usually on the other side

we are asking for others but

others for you know we are dependent on

others so i mean totally so from that

perspective right when you're working

with a partner who all all the time is

just like no no no i mean it just seems

it's like you you kind of want to stop

working with them or you you feel bad

about where you work and all of the

negatives that come with it right but um

but imagine you're in a meeting and

somebody makes this judgement like hey

how about we think about it in this way

like why wouldn't why uh hey can we

think about it and you said no that's

not gonna work or no you know if you

have somebody in the room who is just

constantly shooting down ideas i mean

that's terrible right

um

rather than

you know you kind of trying to be a good

listener like yes okay i think i can see

why you're saying that

and

here's why

that

may be worth experimenting uh maybe not

but uh you know it's just you're gonna

flip the framing a little bit i'm not

saying that you need to kind of you know

if you have strong fundamental beliefs

you know i'm not saying you need you

need to kind of hide them or anything

it's a matter of sort of

um

bringing them along to your thinking but

also getting making sure they feel heard

that you're not like oh no not at all

and you know we tried that in the past

it's not never going to work

so it's like you know i'll give you a

concrete example like somebody said

somebody joined the team uh recently

they said hey why don't we do this and i

mean the fact is we tried that idea in

the past and it hadn't worked so instead

of saying no we tried it in the past

it's not gonna work

uh

i i kind of was of the opinion like yes

uh and this time when we try it let's

make sure to avoid a b and c because

last time when we tried it it didn't

work and so maybe if maybe you know it's

time again to try it but let's make sure

to avoid these pitfalls that we ran into

last time right so that kind of

uh

like flips the whole situation right

instead of you being

somewhat of an adversarial person in the

room you're like well this is great

uh thank you for the idea here's what

happened last time but maybe we can try

it again and let's let's watch out for a

b and c yeah thanks for that example um

actually i see that in my work also all

the time when someone's almost a new

hire they join

they have ideas that we've already

considered in the past and it's like

really easy to shoot down ideas but

it's a lot harder to think about like

hey like how can we iterate um how can

we like you know

be a better counterpart to these um

co-workers

um

i like to dive a little deep into the

conversation that happened with your

manager when like this um topic came up

i think like you called out like hey

like maybe you had an ego or maybe you

were having burnout

how did you handle that conversation

when your manager gave you this kind of

feedback

yeah um

[Music]

i mean

i feel like

we were having a couple exchanges which

weren't

you know which weren't productive right

it was almost like uh you know somewhat

of of an adversarial exchange and i

realized this isn't going too well but

i didn't have sort of the

mental model or the tools in my head to

kind of make sense of that you know it

was easy to blame others

but when um you know my manager who i i

you know trust and respect kind of

showed me

um what he thought and

brought some examples i was like hey i

actually think

uh i think you know

you know there's a saying that you know

if

if you go through the day and everyone

you meet

uh you know is an a-hole

then maybe you are the a-hole right uh

so it's it's basically that is what

happened when i was shown the mirror and

i was given the feedback i was like hey

actually i think this might be something

that is wrong with me

um

so that realization

uh you know firstly i think the feedback

coming from somebody you trust and

respect is very important because that

immediately draws a lot of um you know

you know you put a lot of weight to it

and i took some time to quietly

self-respect uh self-introspect and i

think that's when

initially in any sort of feedback of the

sword can be hard to hear but

i think uh because i i respected uh

the person who i was getting the

feedback from i think it made it was

that kind of you know the radical candle

uh moment for me and and it i think

very quickly i made a change because i

didn't know this this is actually worse

than worse than uh i thought it is

yeah and i mean like now that you're uh

you know you went through like the em

and now you're like a director of

engineering role um

how might you if you notice like this

kind of behavior and someone who reports

to you how might you

handle that conversation or how might

you

approach them

with this kind of feedback

yeah and i've had to you know deal with

you i think you know one thing is that

if

you know being point blank in terms of

sort of you know hey

here's the situation and this is sort of

your you know your tone and and i think

a bunch of people felt

you know in a certain way and do you

agree with this kind of showing them a

little bit of that you know and making

and making them see if they realize that

or not

um i also sort of talk about there are

certain you know

books that early you know crucial

conversations or or non non-violent

communication these are

uh really good books where when it comes

to sort of you know making sure that

people um have sort of the right set of

tools a mental model sort of be thinking

about this

but again i think

you know what what what i tell them give

my own example like hey these are things

that you know

if if you all are not paying attention

to this can be career limiting

and and it's important to get your point

across but it's also important to make

sure the other piece of person gets

heard and that the conversation is

always moving productively forward

rather than you trying to sort of

you know snip it in the middle and

that's that's not uh

that's not a good look for anybody

got it cool um well thanks for your

answer to this mock interview i've been

taking some notes as you've been kind of

talking um i'll give you some of like

the notes i've been taking down and i'd

love to hear at the end just like any

tips you would give the audience if

they're interviewing for like any em or

director of engineering role

so

um i think like the thing that i really

liked in how you would handle um like

giving this feedback to someone else is

how you mentioned that you would share

your own personal stories um you might

give them some books so they can like

have some mental models to think about

like the right way to approach these

kind of relationships because at the end

of the day like as an em or um even like

a director of engineering

like in and out of the day you're

probably working with many many people

and people don't want to work with

someone who's an a-hole um i really

liked how you show that you would build

like positive relationships and like you

take responsibility for

any kind of like human shortfalls that

you might have like hey maybe like

burnout or ego

um and i think it's really important

that you show that you openly

acknowledge the mistakes you've you've

made here

um so

i think those are probably some of the

most important things that the

interviewer will be looking for if they

ask you this kind of question in an

interview

um but yeah that's the the notes i've

been taking here

rahul do you have any sort of tips or

advice that you would give the audience

if they're going for an em or director

of engineering role

yeah i mean for this particular question

i think one thing that is important or

what the sort of interviewer wants to

know

is

uh

does this person exhibit a growth

mentality or not right

um because quite often right you you

want to go from a person who

um has is completely novice in a certain

area and then you know you you taught

yours you figured out what was wrong

somehow or somebody told you and then

you had the self-awareness to like okay

that indeed is not right and you can

correct it and you can become a better

version of yourself um you know over

time uh so that's that's sort of one of

the important things sort of make sure

you are able to

communicate like hey i had this growth

moment and i was up for it and i made it

happen

um

but yeah i mean overall in terms of sort

of um

interviews on for for you know em or

director uh roles i

you know every every org is looking for

different kinds of

people and and and so you know

there is no one-size-fits-all but i i do

think that

having a framework based thinking

towards sort of some of the more

foundational things around you know

people management you know

product development cross-functional

relationships technology

um

having

organized thoughts that you can present

in a succinct manner

is is is exactly what impresses people

on the other side

followed with very very concrete

examples right it can't just be

theoretical it has to be

you have to back it up with concrete

examples from your past experience so i

think that's

the key

totally yeah agree that uh you know you

don't want to ramble you want to give

some kind of structure and you want to

give some kind of concrete example kind

of like how you gave the example of hey

there's a new hire and they propose some

idea that the team's already thought

through

and i think specifically for this

question um like what you want to avoid

is is avoid like you know showing that

you would publicly criticize the person

or showing that you like blame others or

showing that you try to cover up any

mistakes um those are the kind of things

that you don't want to show for a

question like this

um all in all thanks for coming on

today's show rahul and for the viewers

watching at home good luck with your

upcoming engineering manager interview

thanks so much for watching don't forget

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thanks for watching and good luck on

your upcoming interview

[Music]