I’m Always Wearing a Mask
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful conversation, Robert, an autistic individual, shares his struggles with social connections and workplace dynamics. He discusses the challenges of being labeled and the impact of autism on his social interactions. The discussion highlights the importance of self-acceptance, overcoming shame, and the potential for forming meaningful relationships despite the hurdles faced by those on the autism spectrum.
Takeaways
- 🤝 The importance of forming social connections and not giving up hope despite challenges.
- 🏷 The negative impact of being labeled and defined by one's autism in social and work environments.
- 😅 The struggle with codependent friendships where humor is used as a compensation for social awkwardness.
- 😣 The feeling of being used as the butt of jokes rather than being accepted as an equal friend.
- 👀 The difficulty with eye contact and its implications on social interactions and perceptions of arrogance or disinterest.
- 💡 The realization that self-deprecating humor can lead to a cycle of disrespect and the suppression of one's true personality.
- 🌟 The potential for individuals on the autism spectrum to have valuable qualities beyond their diagnosis, such as genuine humor.
- 🔒 The fear and anxiety associated with revealing one's autism to others due to past negative experiences.
- 💼 The positive outcomes of disclosing autism to a manager at work, leading to a more comfortable and accepting environment.
- 🔄 The need to find a balance between embracing one's autism and not letting it define all aspects of one's identity and social interactions.
- 🚀 The encouragement to continue trying to form connections despite the possibility of rejection, as understanding and acceptance are possible outcomes.
Q & A
What was Robert's experience with friendships during his school years?
-Robert felt his friendships in school were codependent. He was often the subject of ridicule and felt he had to play up his autism to fit in, which led to him being seen more as a source of humor rather than a genuine friend.
How did Robert's autism diagnosis affect his social interactions in school?
-After revealing his diagnosis, Robert became labeled with the term 'autistic' and was often the butt of jokes. This label followed him throughout school, impacting his ability to form authentic connections.
What role did humor play in Robert's social life?
-Humor was a double-edged sword for Robert. It allowed him to fit into social groups by making people laugh, but it also led to him being laughed at rather than with, and it reinforced the stereotype of his autism.
How did Robert's experience with one group of friends, introduced through a childhood connection, differ from his other experiences?
-This group was more malicious, with Robert being introduced as 'the autistic guy' rather than by his name. This introduction set the tone for how he was treated within the group, as an object of amusement rather than a respected friend.
What challenges did Robert face when trying to adjust to college life?
-In college, Robert struggled to make friends because he felt awkward and believed people could detect his autism. This belief stemmed from his past experiences and led to him feeling isolated.
How did Robert's past experiences with social groups influence his approach to making friends in his adult life?
-Robert's past experiences made him cautious about being outgoing and showing his personality at work, fearing it would lead to the same kind of ridicule he experienced in school. This resulted in him coming across as boring and unemotional.
What is the concept of 'token autistic friend' as mentioned in the script?
-The 'token autistic friend' concept refers to a situation where a group may include one person with autism to appear diverse and accepting, but this person is not truly integrated as an equal friend; they are defined by their autism rather than seen as an individual.
How does the script suggest that Robert's experience with being the 'butt of jokes' can be harmful?
-The script suggests that being the 'butt of jokes' can create a toxic dynamic where Robert feels he must continue this behavior to gain social acceptance, leading to feelings of disrespect and invalidation of his feelings and criticisms.
What advice does the script provide for Robert regarding his struggle with eye contact?
-The script suggests that while eye contact can be worked on through social skills training, it may never reach a 'natural' level for Robert due to his autism. However, it emphasizes that this does not prevent him from forming meaningful relationships.
How does the script address the issue of potential workplace discrimination against people on the autism spectrum?
-The script acknowledges that social challenges at work due to autism might exist but emphasizes that being on the spectrum is not a destiny that dooms one to unemployment. It suggests being proactive in communicating one's needs and accommodations to employers.
What is the script's overall message regarding forming social connections for people on the autism spectrum?
-The script's overall message is one of hope and encouragement. It advises people on the autism spectrum to accept and not be ashamed of their neurodivergence, to communicate their needs when necessary, and to understand that forming social connections may require patience and persistence but is entirely possible.
Outlines
🤝 Struggles with Friendships and Identity
Robert, diagnosed with autism at a young age, discusses his challenges in forming and maintaining friendships. He recalls being labeled as 'weird' in school, which led to him being part of the 'nerd group.' His value in this group was primarily as a source of humor, often at his own expense. He also mentions a more malicious group of friends who introduced him as 'the autistic guy,' further reinforcing his label. This experience has made him feel like he needs to hide his true self to fit in.
😅 The Impact of Being Labeled 'Autistic'
Robert shares how being labeled as 'autistic' affected his social interactions and self-perception. He felt that his only way to gain acceptance was through humor, often at the expense of his own dignity. This led to a dynamic where he was the butt of jokes rather than being respected as an individual. His experiences in school and later in college were marked by a struggle to adjust and form meaningful connections, with the fear of being perceived as 'autistic' always looming.
🤔 Reflections on Codependence and Social Dynamics
In this paragraph, Robert delves into the concept of codependence in his friendships, particularly with a group he joined through a childhood friend. He felt inferior and always had to play up to the group to maintain his place. His friend's introduction of him as 'the autistic guy' set the tone for how others in the group perceived him, leading to a dynamic where he was always 'the autistic friend' rather than being seen as an individual named Robert.
😔 The Toxicity of Being the 'Autistic Friend'
Robert describes the negative impact of being seen solely as 'the autistic friend' within his social circles. He felt that his autism became his defining characteristic, overshadowing his true personality. This led to a toxic dynamic where he was often the target of jokes and not taken seriously. His attempts to assert himself were dismissed as 'just his autism acting out,' further isolating him and making him feel like he had to suppress his true self to maintain any form of social acceptance.
🧠 The Struggle with Autism and Self-Acceptance
Robert expresses his feelings about being autistic, viewing it as a hindrance rather than a gift. He rejects the stereotype of autistic individuals being savants and feels that he only experiences the social downsides of autism. His struggle with self-acceptance is evident as he discusses the challenges of forming connections and his fear of being perceived as rude or arrogant due to his difficulty with eye contact and small talk.
👀 The Challenge of Eye Contact and Social Interactions
Robert discusses his difficulty with eye contact, which he finds uncomfortable and unnatural. This challenge affects his social interactions, as people often misinterpret his lack of eye contact as disinterest or arrogance. He also talks about his reluctance to disclose his autism to others, fearing potential negative reactions, but acknowledges the positive impact it had when he did share this information with his manager at work.
🌟 Optimism for Building Connections
Despite his challenges, Robert shows optimism about forming connections. He acknowledges the fear of rejection but is encouraged by the positive changes in his workplace after disclosing his autism. He is open to sharing his neurodivergence when necessary and is learning to be more comfortable with his identity. The conversation highlights the importance of overcoming fear and embracing one's unique qualities.
🛣️ Navigating the Bumpy Road of Social Acceptance
Robert and the speaker discuss the potential for rejection and the importance of not internalizing it as a personal deficiency. They acknowledge that forming friendships can be a numbers game, where not every connection will be successful, but persistence can lead to meaningful relationships. The conversation emphasizes the need to be proactive and open about one's challenges while also recognizing that autism does not define one's entire identity.
🏢 Work Challenges and the Importance of Communication
Robert raises concerns about the impact of autism on his work life, particularly the potential for being perceived as rude or off due to his social challenges. The speaker reassures him that while social interactions can be more challenging for those on the spectrum, it is not a destiny that cannot be overcome. They discuss the importance of communicating one's needs and challenges to employers and the potential benefits of being open about one's autism in the workplace.
🌈 Embracing Neurodivergence and Building Relationships
The conversation concludes with a reflection on the spectrum of autism and the importance of individual experiences. The speaker encourages Robert to embrace his neurodivergence and not to feel ashamed of his autism. They discuss the potential for forming social and romantic relationships and being successful at work, emphasizing that overcoming fear and self-deprecating humor is key to building genuine connections.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Autism
💡Codependency
💡Masking
💡Neurodivergence
💡Self-deprecating humor
💡Tokenism
💡Inauthenticity
💡Eye contact
💡Rejection
💡Acceptance
💡Neurotypical
Highlights
Individuals with autism can form social connections, romantic relationships, and be successful at work.
Robert was diagnosed with autism at the age of three.
In school, Robert struggled with masking his symptoms, leading to being labeled as 'weird'.
Robert felt he had to play up his autism to fit into his school's 'nerd group'.
Robert's humor was his primary value in his social group, often at the expense of being laughed at rather than with.
Being introduced as 'the autistic guy' by a friend made Robert feel like a token in his friend group.
Robert's experience with being the butt of jokes led to feelings of being a 'lightning rod' for humor.
Struggles with eye contact and small talk have made forming connections difficult for Robert.
Robert's experience of being defined by his autism led to a desire to suppress parts of his identity.
Robert has worked on overcoming the shame associated with being autistic.
Disclosure of autism to a manager at work led to a more comfortable and accepting work environment.
Robert's humor and self-awareness are noted as strengths in his social interactions.
The fear of rejection can be a barrier to forming connections, but it's important to acknowledge and overcome this fear.
Robert discusses the potential impact of autism on employment and the importance of finding the right company.
The conversation emphasizes the importance of self-acceptance and not letting autism define one's entire identity.
Vocalizing one's challenges and being proactive can set individuals with autism above their peers in the workplace.
The conversation concludes with optimism about the potential for individuals with autism to form meaningful social and professional relationships.
Transcripts
they are able actually to form social
connections romantic relationships be
successful at work so don't give up hope
it just takes a little bit of work
hey friend
hi there
uh what do you go by
uh so my name is robert
roger
uh robert
robert robert
yeah robert okay
welcome robert how are you
yeah not bad thank you
how are your friendships going
so my friendships
have been i'm talking the past tense i
don't really have any friendships at the
moment but my friendships
have
always felt codependent
okay
so i i don't know how do you i can
i've got like
maybe five minutes worth of stuff that i
will sort of read out is that okay yeah
i'd love that thank you so much for
preparing
okay um so
i'm gonna start off by saying that i was
diagnosed as autistic
i think when i was three
okay
and so when i was in school so secondary
school 11 to 16 i
wasn't able to
mask my symptoms as well so
people would make fun of me for being
weird like i was instantly
weird to people and so naturally because
of this
i sort of fell into like the nerd group
of my school
so i remember yeah
and so i remember early on i had this
quite an awkward encounter i think it
was with a girl
um i just said something dumb and my
friend like asked me you know why why am
i so awkward
from people and i told him about my
diagnosis
and so
i remember regretting that day quite a
lot because as soon as i told him
i gave him this like
you know i gave him this buzzword
basically
and so from then on like all throughout
school
i was that word was used to describe me
like constantly
um
and so in in my group there were i would
say three people who are a lot smarter
than i was
uh
and i was one of the four that one very
intelligent
i was educationally quite mediocre so i
could never really join in on any
intelligent discussion
whatsoever
however the only reason i had any value
in this group was because i could make
people laugh like that was like my place
that i held in the group
um
and i found like i mean sometimes i i
could say things that were humorous but
there were times where i would say
something
or i would just do something i would say
something outrageous or do something
outrageous and
you know
people would laugh at me rather than
with me
common
yeah
so um
in fact i think it happened more than
people were laughing at me than with me
no i think of it yeah so
i realized that the only way i could get
a positive response out of my friends
was to just
make them like i i didn't have any place
in this group other than my ability to
make them laugh
and i would sort of uh like i knew that
they knew i was autistic so i would like
uh i would play
play it up a little bit like there were
times where i would be i would pretend
to be completely oblivious to certain
things and
in turn
that would sort of gain a reaction out
of them like oh look at him he's the
funniest bad kid like you know
he does it he doesn't know you know yep
and i sort of created like a almost a
character of myself rather than yeah
like displaying who i was
and
overall i'd say
i had one other group of friends who i
would say more malicious
if in fact it was mostly only one person
um
the other group i'm on good terms now
with like
we're okay
but um
there was another group of people that i
joined through someone that i had known
from when i was young
it's like you know we were we grew up
together
i lived on the same lived on the same
street and you know
his he knew about my diagnosis because
his mother had told him
just for the sake of awareness and you
know when we were kids it's like you
know it's just childhood friends it
doesn't matter but i i remember we
reconnected later on um
like sort of in our secondary school
years started playing cs go together
and
he played cs go with his school friends
and so he introduced me to them
and the first time he introduced me to
his friendship group he introduced me as
oh this is the autistic guy that i was
telling you i was telling you about
and uh he you know he didn't even
introduce me by name i had to say it
myself
but he you know he introduced me as this
label right off the bat
um but i you know i i still managed to
do my usual thing i
was able to fit in with this group i was
you know
i came in with my brand of loud and
obnoxious humor and managed to get
laughs out of them so i like i knew that
i was able to fit in
at the very least
um and i remember the first time that i
met his friends in person
they were kind of like
i don't know what it was but they were
hesitant around me and i wondered why
like i was you know i just like
introduced myself
but they they sort of like
they were kind of like weirded out by me
like right off the bat and later on his
friend had told me that
um
this guy had said oh you know you need
to watch out around him he's severely
autistic and he might throw his arm out
and accidentally hit you
um and he like it was sort of set as a
joke like he was trying to build
this character of me basically um rather
than letting his friends meet me
normally
and so
i was always introduced
as the autistic guy i was never robert
um
i was always his autistic friend that's
how people refer to me as and you know i
i was able to still like fit into a
degree but i was never really respected
as a person i was just kind of this like
sideshow freak on the you know sure that
yeah that's how i felt
um and eventually it got to the point
where
i understood that i was sort of a
lightning rod for all of the jokes
damn what a what a phrase dude
that's such a powerful phrase
i i heard the phrase
stop being autistic a lot like if i ever
said something that was like against
what they were saying that was what was
thrown at me just by default
um
if i ever tried to stand up for myself i
wouldn't ever be taken seriously because
i was just the funny guy that's all i
was
and
because this word was being used to
describe me so much
it became synonymous with my very
existence like i once i left school um
and i entered college i really started
like colleges uh high school 16 to 18.
uh
and i really struggled to adjust like i
couldn't make any friends whatsoever
um like i felt really really awkward
around people because i thought that i
just like emanated autism like they
could just detect it
just by standing near me and you know
that doesn't really make sense right but
because i
i've been caught like i'd become so
attached to this word and i i felt like
i never understood really what i was
being made fun of for but i was being
made fun of for something so i thought
you know i don't
people can just see it but i can't
does that make sense yeah absolutely
okay
um
and so yeah i didn't make any friends in
my last years of education
and you know ever since i've just been
like i've been three years out of
education just working various different
jobs
um
and i've sort of realized how it's
affected me like in my working life
because
and just like my ability to make friends
in general like that i've been around
some people in work who are like my age
and i could have made friends with
but i didn't want to dis i didn't want
to like
do the same thing as i did with all of
my other friends and like try to be
outgoing
and so i would you know i was i was
always worried that they could like
anyone that talks to me can detect it
like they can they know
like they can pick up on like my
awkwardness
um so i i basically tried to pretend to
be as normal as possible
uh
and and in turn i just it would it would
make me seem really
boring really unemotional
like i wouldn't show any personality
basically
because i was worried that if i do show
any amount of personality
then
it will be made fun of
yeah absolutely man
my heart goes out to you
uh i've only got a little bit left to
read
um
but yeah i feel like every single
like i want to expand socially i want to
actually learn what a good friendship
feels like
but
i feel like this is going to get in the
way because whenever i talk to people i
have this like feeling of
just
i feel like i can't be
myself at all like i have to put on
you know this completely normal
appearance i can't
you know
and i end up being yeah i've already
gone over this sorry i'm
yeah i'm worried that because i have
this anxiety of my
autism being found out and people
finding out that there's something wrong
with me i try to be as normal as
possible and in turn that makes me seem
weird in itself yeah and i just don't
know artificial
yeah rigid exactly
yeah
robert you'd mention something about
codependence
so
now i think of it
yeah so i used that word because i was
the friendship group that i was talking
about
that i joined through my childhood
friend
they were like
seen as sort of like popular kids
basically
and for me
being in this friendship group um
i felt like i was finally not a nerd
anymore
basically
and so
if i
left this group
i'd have nothing i'd i'd have to be a
nerd again yeah um so and it yeah it
always felt like they were above me
i was i was below them
and always i was always playing up to
them just to stay in
got it
um
can i just think for a second
sure
thank you very much for sharing things
so concisely i think it's it's actually
very helpful and was also quite
um rich
in terms of your experience and your
background and your information so i'd
love to just process for a moment and
and kind of formulate my thoughts
okay
yeah so robert
is it okay if i if i try to respond in a
more
uh
almost like you kind of gave me five
minutes is it okay if i kind of try to
do the same back to you and then we can
maybe dig in a little bit more
yeah that's fine
so i you know first of all
my heart really goes out to you i i
think you've been
the unhappy recipient of so much of the
struggle that we see
with people who are on the
spectrum so the first thing is that
there's just a lack of awareness about
what autism is
and
and so
you know like even for example like your
friend's mom that told him that you were
on the autism spectrum that's not
necessarily a bad thing like i think
having awareness of people's
neurodevelopment i mean neurodivergent
um you know differences can actually be
like a really important piece of
information
in helping us
form appropriate relationships does that
make sense
yeah so it's not like we want to hide it
like we want people to be kind of aware
but
i think the downside is that
when we start to tell people sometimes
what happens is the autism starts to be
our defining characteristic
yeah and once it starts to become the
defining characteristic i've seen this
in a way that i recently that i really
hadn't seen
even five years ago
where sometimes groups of people right
because we're being like more accepting
of people with autism and it's
neurodevelopmental and it's like you
know it's a little neurodivergent and so
like i've almost seen people who will
have like a token autistic friend
so like groups of people will have like
a friend and it's like oh we're cool and
we're accepting because we've got
one i'm friends with someone with autism
so that means that i'm a cool person and
i'm like accepting of people and i'm
woke and all this kind of stuff
but even then in that moment they they
don't have a friend with autism
they have an autistic friend
and this is where sometimes like
you know i mean i think you shared that
beautifully when you kind of said like
you got introduced as oh here's the
autist i found
you know and they didn't they didn't
even like introduce your name
and that's where like what's sort of
starting to happen is people are
starting starting to be defined by their
autism instead of
autism being a part of who they are
and this can get like even worse because
as you sort of get defined by this one
thing
you're left with a very interesting
social challenge
which is like this is like these people
are my friend because like oh like i'm
autistic
and then what happens is like you're
trying to figure out okay how do i
relate to these people because they're
judging me in this way
and what a lot of people with autism
will end up doing we'll also see this
with other uh neurodivergent kind of
conditions like adhd is very very common
where you become the clown
right because that's how you get your
social status you may not be as
intelligent as them i'm not entirely
sure i agree with that by the way but
you know if you say that we'll accept
that for now
but you kind of like you turn into kind
of this one trick pony where like oh
like let's all laugh at the autistic kid
because at least they're kind of
laughing right they invite you
like you're invited
but you're kind of the butt of jokes
and then you're kind of stuck because
you're in the situation where
even if you try to say something or do
something or
exhibit frustration with your
quote-unquote friends
they attribute oh they're like that's
just his autism acting out like oh we
don't have to take his like concerns
seriously we don't have to take his his
feelings seriously we don't have to take
his criticisms seriously that's just the
autism it's just the autism
yeah and so it's a very
toxic dynamic
where
you have to like continue paying this
price of being the butt of jokes in
order to get some degree of social
acceptance
and then as you lobby to actually be a
part of the group instead of fitting in
like they don't want that right because
they treat you
your entire relationship with them is
defined by the autism
and so like we feel kind of stuck by
this bullying it's essentially bullying
and so then what happens i've seen this
a lot where people will like learn from
that right and they're like okay well
here's the way i've learned how to make
friends which is that like people are
aware of my autism it's sort of like
demeaning in some ways but it also is
like sort of an excuse and if i kind of
screw up or people get mad at me like
they're still gonna invite me next time
because i'm autistic
you know so it does have some advantages
i can poke fun at myself that's what i
bring to people that's my fundamental
value and i'm gonna so i'm gonna engage
in self-deprecating humor which is gonna
encourage disrespect and we're going to
like
keep that going because that's how i
connect with people
and over time what happens is people
realize like oh this is actually kind of
toxic i don't like this
and then you become ashamed of the
autism
because people have been treating you so
poorly because you're autistic
and then you try to suppress parts of
yourself whereas like i don't think that
you're funny just because you're
autistic it sounds to me like one of
your best qualities is that you're
actually like really genuinely funny
and and so then what happens is we try
to hide our autism and we suppress
those humorous parts of ourself you end
up coming across as kind of like flat
yes
right and then like people don't
you don't it's like the thing that you
are the most valuable thing that you can
offer to another human being is
something that you've taken off the
table because at the beginning you used
humor as a compensation for other
potential deficiencies or autism or
whatever and then you realize like in
your mind those two things have come
together
like you can't be funny without being
autistic almost and then as you take a
humor off the table because you're
taking autism off the table then like
how do you connect with people and then
you kind of become rigid you kind of
become flat you kind of become
inauthentic and then it's hard to
connect with people when you're just
kind of like
neutral
yeah
it's like
i gotta say
it it's really hard to be in this
situation and this is a situation that i
hear about
so much from people who are on the
spectrum
um does that resonate with you
that it's
you know yeah a hundred percent i mean
every single thing
definitely yeah so so and this is what
stuff i
i i don't know that i have an easy
answer for you because i i think it's
like
it's a problem we're seeing that's like
more and more
you know
challenging it's happening more and more
so let me start with a couple of
questions is that okay yeah that's fine
so the first is how do you feel about
being autistic
uh i'm just gonna
think for a second
i feel like it's an unnecessary
hindrance for my communication
it's that i don't like there's a lot of
uh
there's this stereotype of an autistic
person where they're sort of like gifted
in some sort of way like oh you know
rain man if you've ever watched that
movie or you can count cards whatever
i'm not i'm not like good at maths i'm
not good at coding i'm not really
particularly good at anything
i just have the social downsides that's
how i personally feel about it
yeah so i think that's a really good um
that's a really good description because
sometimes in the game of life we almost
think about it like i don't know if you
play d d or like
rpgs
but not really okay so like sometimes we
have like this character creation
kind of perspective where it's like if i
get a negative trait
i get some kind of bonus point somewhere
else
and then it all evens out in the end
like i can min max
by having a really low stat over here
but then i'm super high over here and
unfortunately sometimes that's not how
life works
right sometimes things are just like
negative like there's no there's no like
upside to trauma like
right there you know that it
so so that's challenging so how do you
feel about
so you you kind of don't feel like you
have any kind of advantages you're not
an autistic savant
and so but how do you feel about like
what is how do you feel about that
like not having an advantage and just
having a straight disadvantage
i can't really
it's bad
i can't really elaborate on it anymore
like you know there's there's no upside
to it yeah so do you find yourself
wishing that you weren't autistic
all the time
and are you ashamed of being autistic
um
i will i will say not so much anymore
like i've been working a lot on
dealing with that shame and i'm not
really ashamed of it anymore i i the way
i see it now is i could do without it
and it probably would have made my life
play out a little it would have made my
life easier at that stage of my life but
i'm not ashamed of it necessarily like
i've sort of worked on that
so i'm really happy to hear that i think
that's going to be very important for
going forward
and um so
what makes it hard for you to form
connections with people now
um i would say
this is slowly improving but
i would say for the past three years the
only people have already interacted with
people at work it's the
the difficulties of like
there's something so awkward about
small talk and just regular
passing interactions with people and
that there's a lot of that that happens
at work you need to say good morning
like how are you i'm fine how are you
you need to ask them the same question
and then they say the same thing back to
you
um and it like the the in authenticity
of all of these interactions
i always feel like disgusting after i
engage in any of like i can't do small
talk
that's just like one of them
uh what do you the question was
what do you think stops me from building
connections with people right yeah and
if it's like
i don't like small talk that's a
completely valid answer
yeah okay
and the other one
a big part is like eye contact um i can
only really make eye contact for like
two seconds at a time before i have to
look away because obviously like
you know you look like you know people
normal people look at each other
and so over time i've learned that i
have to kind of do that
even though it is difficult so i'll look
at people
in the eyes for like two seconds and
then i have to look away because it
comes it becomes too uncomfortable
and what this means is that people
sort of naturally get an impression of
me that i'm not really on the same page
as they are like i'm you know i'm not
listening to them or i'm not interested
in what they're saying so i i think i
actually give across like an arrogant
vibe like if people don't know they just
assume that i'm rude
and and do you
do how do you feel about telling people
that you're on the spectrum
i i don't
i wouldn't ever do it unless it was the
only person
i've only
told
i'm not going to count all the people
that i've told uh
it would make me uncomfortable
to tell someone unless it was necessary
like a manager for instance uh
i do like i told my manager at my
current job
uh that i'm autistic and i if i'm not
making eye contact as much
it
it feels good to sort of get that weight
off my shoulders that i don't feel like
i have to
pretend
like they understand that i've got this
thing that might make me seem slightly
blunt or standoffish at times
and i've sort of got a reason for it so
i think the the fear of telling someone
can be quite strong because i worry
about maybe like oh will they think that
i'm incompetent will they fire me
but i think once i
you know the most recent case telling my
manager once i told him
um i feel like people at work started to
like when i when i used to come to work
i would just like come in not say a word
and i would go home but
now that people sort of understand
they're okay with that and i'm actually
i actually feel more like a lot more
comfortable in my workplace
and so i feel like i i have actually
started talking more to my co-workers
now so it i know the positive effects
that telling people can have it's just
getting over that initial hurdle of
telling them
that that scares me
yeah
so um
robert i actually feel like i've got
some
i want to share some more stuff with you
i is it
i feel like you actually did such a
beautiful job with your initial kind of
five minutes that i i don't feel like i
need to ask you a bunch of questions
is it okay if i share some thoughts with
you or did were you hoping that i would
ask you more questions
no you can share your thoughts it's fine
so
so here's
so i'm optimistic for you first of all
so i think just talking to you now i
think you have a lot to offer people um
and you know i don't know if hopefully
you're not watching twitch chat or
anything like that but oh no definitely
not good um and also i i think that like
what what i'm you know overwhelmingly
seeing is that people think you're a
cool person and you know you're worthy
of hanging out with and have friendship
and all this kind of stuff right
so so like i i'm not i'm not hearing an
overt rejection from people on twitch
which i think is great
so yeah so i think part of what you're
dealing with is the fear that you have
is primarily because you are it sounds
like in two primary situations
also with people who are like kids for
the most part right
and so kids are not going to be the most
empathic in fact kids are some of the
nastiest people on the planet when it
comes to treating other like treating
people with compassion like kids can be
some of the most cruel human beings
on like in the world
and and so i think a lot of your fear
actually is reasonable right because
you've had this experience where people
have defined you by autism have treated
you a particular way because of that
autism some of that was also like played
into by you
because that was your adaptation to get
acceptance
right yeah and so going forward i i
almost think that you're
you know what i would what what i've
actually seen works and i'm
is first of all developing a healthy
understanding
and relationship with your own
uh autism
and what and i think you're actually
like really far there so in in the past
when i've done you know therapy with
people who have autism we try to get to
kind of where you are which is that i'm
not ashamed of it and it sucks
like i wish i didn't have it and it's
it's okay to authentically wish i wasn't
autistic
and also like it's just part of who i am
and i don't need to be ashamed of it
like you're completely valid with all of
those thoughts
the other thing that i'd kind of say is
there there is some we talked about the
downsides of increasing autism awareness
which is that sometimes you'll have
social groups that want a token autistic
friend
but the upside is that there are a lot
of people out there who are more aware
that you know autism is more common than
we originally thought it's a spectrum
um and that will be actually like more
understanding of your situation and and
try to understand you better and will
like
recognize that if you're not making eye
contact if you struggle with small talk
they won't attribute that to other
things kind of unfairly right like
you're kind of like you're uninterested
or
you know you're arrogant or whatever
like you've kind of said
so oddly enough in your case i would
actually say just like keep trying to
connect with people and also you don't
want to lead necessarily with hi my name
is robert i'm on the spectrum but also
like i i wouldn't
you know if you feel like especially
with small talk i think you can kind of
like share that tidbit a little bit
earlier
and i wouldn't be surprised i'm so happy
to hear about kind of your situation at
work because what i've actually found is
that
you know if you kind of put that out
there and you kind of put yourself out
there and i would include like
activating your humor too
that if you try that with five or six
different groups of people it'll land
really well with like 50 of them
and i think to a certain degree it's
kind of a numbers game because as people
are more
you know compassionate towards people
who are neurodivergent
that actually like opens a lot of doors
and also that like if you if they kind
of understand that oh the reason that
you're not making eye contact isn't
because you dislike me it's maybe a
manifestation of being on the autism
spectrum
like
that will allow relationships to foster
and hopefully you'll actually find
situations more like you did at work i'm
actually really hopeful because you've
at least had a couple
right
and so oddly enough i think forming
relationships with you is really sort of
like acknowledging that fear
acknowledging where that fear comes from
and also not letting the fear control
you and kind of taking a chance
being a little bit funny
and
you know also like not hiding the fact i
wouldn't advertise it but also not being
ashamed of and not hiding the fact that
you're on the spectrum how does that
sound to you
yeah i think you know i don't want to be
someone who makes it i don't want to
sort of like wear autism as a badge and
sort of like show it around and
but at the same time i think yeah when
when necessary when it makes sense to
tell people
that i will and i think i'm a lot more
comfortable with doing that now
yeah i i'm actually just talking to you
and having this interaction makes me
like quite optimistic that
you know it's going to be a little bit
of a bumpy road and i think you're
probably looking at some amount of
rejection
but also that rejection
is not something that i think is like
this is the hard thing is sometimes it's
hard to acknowledge that if a group
rejects us it's not like we're
personally deficient
right yeah
and even then it may not be like a
straight rejection it's just like
you know if you have hey like you want
to hang out sometime yeah sure i'd love
to and then nothing ever happens doesn't
mean that i don't like you it just means
that maybe i'm busy or maybe i'm
struggling with my own depression or you
know like there's a lot of family drama
going on or things like that and i think
that's where it's like it's just
important to remember that to a certain
degree it's like kind of a numbers game
that if you reach out and and try to
connect with five different groups of
people you know two to three of them
will probably like not land but all you
really need is like one or two and then
i think you're you've really come a long
way and i'm optimistic that if you just
keep on trying you'll actually do really
well
yeah
how does that sound
i i mean the the rejection part like
obviously i'm
i have quite a negative relationship
well i think everyone does no one nobody
wants to be rejected um
but yeah getting getting over that
sort of oh everyone hates me if these
people hate me
that will that will be the most
difficult part um
but yeah yeah i mean so i like i said
it's going to be a bumpy road i think
this is the kind of thing we're actually
like seeing a therapist could also help
you with that kind of stuff
insurance i am currently seeing a
therapist oh that's fantastic so i i
would i would take that you know those
rejections i would take them to therapy
and kind of vent them there
um i'm not surprised at all to hear that
you're seeing a therapist because it
sounds like you've really come a long
way and and you're
you know
doing really well
the one thing that i would remember is
that sometimes this can be a feature of
uh being on the spectrum but it is not
exclusive to being on the spectrum so a
lot of neurotypical people will do this
like you know that rejection is
sometimes a manifestation of black and
white thinking
yeah and and just be aware of that right
so black and white thinking is not
specific to autism spectrum but
i tend to see it happen more in in
people with autism
um and so some of the stuff like oh the
only thing i bring to the table
is self-deprecating humor that kind of
black and white thinking i would start
to really become aware of and question a
little bit because i think you bring a
lot i'm just talking to you now like i
feel like i would have no trouble
hanging out with you for like two or
three hours and just
you know and you haven't cracked any
jokes like you're insightful you're
thoughtful
you know you're organized with your
speech
you're self-aware
like you bring a lot to the table
yeah but like in you know with the way
that i'm interacting with you currently
it's very um
it's very formal like i'm not
interacting with you in a like a bubbly
energetic way
i i you know i'm just i'm just saying
words that's all i'm doing and i want to
get past that like exterior that i've
built for myself
and
you know you mean it robert you mean
it's get it gets better than this
i mean
i don't know i i feel like this is just
very i feel like you're you make you
feel like you're i feel like you might
feel like you're talking to a robot
right now because of the sort of
i i don't feel like i'm talking to a
robot
well that's how i always feel when i
talk to people because i
i feel like because i i don't i'm not
emotive and i'm not
energetic like other people are they
they get the impression that i'm like
and yeah i don't know
so i'll just take what you said like
yeah so so like like it's important to
acknowledge that right like but yeah
that that's the whole point is that a
lot of you forming friendships
is going to be
not
negotiating against yourself
could you elaborate yeah so like like
you know you
you're
you're pre-rejecting yourself
you're not even giving me the chance to
accept or reject you you're assuming
that i think i'm talking to a robot
yeah
i i i didn't feel that way at all
yeah i was the only one who said it so
yeah like
you don't seem like a robot to me
it's great to hear that's why honestly
my reaction when you told me like i'm
not being bubbly and energetic is like
this is great you're telling me it gets
better than this like that sounds
awesome
you know and that that's what i think
i'm hearing from you robert is that
you're not showcasing your best self i
think the big difference is that even
your best self is actually completely
acceptable i mean even
not being your best self
is completely acceptable and sounds
fantastic
i just feel like i'm talking to a normal
open
thoughtful person that's what i get from
this conversation
okay
i don't think i've ever been told that
before i think but it's good to hear
that outside perspective i don't i'm not
getting any sense that you're funny but
i i would i would say the the word that
comes to mind the most is that you're
thoughtful
yeah
and if it gets better than that it's
like
like give me the dlc bro
you know like don't don't don't pay wall
the humor
i appreciate that thank you
any questions
um
i i would like to think
sure just for a second so
okay
i think a big one for me is is eye
contact
and like how much of it is
is it something that can be
worked on
like can i learn to make more eye
contact
uh this is where the answer is gonna be
kind of strange the answer is gonna be
yes and no
so if you look at
you know i'm not an expert on autism in
terms of my clinical practice but
i think that they're so if you look at
like evidence-based psychotherapies and
what's effective for people who are on
the spectrum
there is a certain amount of like social
skills training
that can improve
your ability to like relate to other
people
yeah and
you can sort of socially train it but it
may never be at the level of like
natural eye contact
if your brain was a little bit different
okay so
i hopefully i mean i love it if someone
proved me wrong but you know what we
understand about people who are
neurodivergent is that their brains are
a little bit different you can
compensate for a lot of it
what i will tell you is that at some
point it becomes completely irrelevant
so like you may have difficulty with eye
contact or it may feel a little bit
artificial it's kind of hard this has
been my experience working with people
on the spectrum is that it's hard to
like find a natural level right so you
learn how to make more eye contact but
then you can feel like you're staring a
little bit too much and that can make
people so some people uncomfortable and
the truth of the matter is that for some
people that i've worked with they never
get to the neurotypical level and
it's actually kind of irrelevant because
it feels awkward for the first hour that
you're with people but i i've worked
with a ton of people who never master
eye contact who are still able to live
completely fulfilling social and
romantic lives
because at some point like a lot of that
eye contact is actually with the initial
social interaction
and i don't know how to say this but you
know i'm assuming that you've got
relationships with your family but like
do you have eye contact problems with
your family
um
it's not as bad it's not as bad but that
that like i can't
look there's still that thing where i
can't look for too long
yeah it just gets uncomfortable right so
like you may continue to have it my
point is that it may not impact the
relationship
yeah does that make sense
yeah i mean i have been told that eye
contact is huge when it comes to
connecting with people
yeah but i think it's it's more
important early on
right and and what i've seen is that
people like conform relationships and
then then it's totally fine like if you
go to movies like if you go to the
movies with a couple of friends you're
not no one's making eye contact anyway
so it's not really an issue
and if you go to a meal you know it's
not like everyone's staring at each
other for extended periods of time
and so it's okay like if you go on a
hike with someone for example
like you're going to be walking side by
side you're not even going to be looking
at each other
so as you develop relationships with
people i think eye contact becomes
less of a hindrance in terms of the
relationship
okay
but i i i'm you know but i i have worked
with people who continue to struggle
with it and and never really master it
fully
which is unfortunate but also doesn't
determine your future
yeah
and uh
am i good to ask one more question sure
so
i have worked in places in the past
where
i feel like due to
you know not being
so you know very
due to being autistic and well people
aren't ever really aware that i'm
autistic they just think that i'm off or
rude as i've said before and i'm worried
as to how
uh what am i trying to say like how much
important like
is it common for autistic people to be
fired from their job because of uh
things that they give off to people
hmm that's such a good question um
i actually don't so i imagine that
there's probably research
about that
but i don't know the statistics
um
i i i don't know is the short answer
okay
uh
uh what let me think about how i can try
to offer something a little bit more
substantive so i would find it hard to
believe
that
i would imagine that being on the
spectrum makes social interactions at
work
a little bit more challenging
and i would also expect that challenging
social interactions at work
don't correlate well with employment and
things like that
yeah
but and i'm not using an end here i'm
really using a butt
there are lots of other people and lots
of other conditions that lead to
problematic social interactions that
have nothing to do with autism right
like so people can be
narcissistic they can be
passive-aggressive
and the other thing that i'd say is that
i know a ton of people who are very
successfully employed who are are on the
spectrum
okay and
you know like so so
i i think it's
it may be a disadvantage of some kind
but i i think it's far from destiny
and i think it's all so far from like
insurmountable
yeah
it's just a case of finding the right
company yeah something like more of an
issue somewhere yeah so like also
vocalizing to people when you're ready
that you are on the spectrum and that it
affects things in a particular way but
like
you know
you know sharing with your boss that hey
i'm on the spectrum these are the things
that i struggle with but like you know
anytime i'm open to feedback i'm a very
hard worker and here are the ways that i
try to compensate
um you know if this ever becomes a
problem please let me know and i'm happy
to work on it like
even vocalizing things like that can
actually set you above your peers
because
a lot of neurotypical people will never
say stuff like that and they'll be
oblivious to feedback and take things
personally and things like that
yeah
so
you know if you feel like autism is a
disadvantage i'm not going to disagree
with you you're the one who lives your
life and at the same time i don't think
that it dooms you to anything and
the person that i feel like i'm talking
to who's this thoughtful and proactive
about their life i'm optimistic that you
can have
a good job good career and you can form
solid human connections
okay that's great to hear thank you yeah
i think you've put in a lot of work
robert and i think it shows
okay i mean is is there anything else so
not from my end
all right brilliant thank you very much
thank you
great thanks for sharing and thanks for
calling in
all right thank you take care
oh inferno pizza wants to be his friend
real bad yeah so i think you know
i just want to kind of
recap this for a second so sometimes
we're becoming more aware that people
are on the autism spectrum so a couple
of things to remember the first is that
the autism spectrum is a spectrum
and so there's
you know
you can't
define the destinies
of people on the autism spectrum in one
particular way because different people
have different advantages disadvantages
etc
i think unfortunately what we're
starting to see is that as
on the one hand it's good that there's
more autism awareness
right so people like robert have
is in a workplace where he explained
this to his boss boss was very
understanding um you know so it sounds
like he's feeling more comfortable at
work so i think it's totally fine to
share with people if you are on the
spectrum a weird thing that i'm starting
to see though is that sometimes it
starts to define you in a social group
which can actually be quite
toxic
where everything that you do is because
you're autistic right it's like we don't
sometimes allow people with autism to
have normal variation
and and just because i'm mad at you
doesn't mean that like i'm autistic and
and can't regulate my emotions it's
possible the reason that i'm mad at you
is because you're actually treating me
inappropriately and with
disrespect so sometimes we'll see a lot
of invalidation towards people on the
spectrum and sometimes we'll also see a
weird kind of toxic thing which is like
the token autistic friend in a friend
group which as robert said can sometimes
make you a lightning rod for jokes
and so the challenge is if you grow up
on the spectrum and it doesn't
necessarily be i have to be on the
autism spectrum i've seen this with
other things like adhd as well
where you sort of learn that humor and
self-deprecating humor is the way is the
way that you get admission to a friend
group
but if that's what starts to happen like
you know you're paying
a poor admission price and you're not
truly being accepted
so if you're if you're struggling to
form connections i think a lot of it is
actually disentangling
some of the dis self-deprecating humor
and things like that like sort of trying
to find a nice balance with
accepting that you are autistic
accepting that there may not be a
particular advantage if you know not to
say that it's all bad right so people
with autism are allowed
to
say this is not a disadvantage they're
allowed to say this is a disadvantage
like that depends on the individual we
don't get to decide that for people with
autism you have to develop your own
relationship and comfort and acceptance
with your neurodivergence
and once you do that hopefully you're
not ashamed of it right so i think
overcoming that shame is really
important and then as you start to form
connections with people thankfully there
is more awareness
and sometimes you have to let people
know that you're on the spectrum to help
them understand why you may not be doing
some things that neurotypical people do
but in my experience people who sort of
take this approach and and overcome some
of their fears and don't like slip into
automatic self-deprecating humor because
that attracts for a particular kind of
person they are able actually to form
social connections romantic
relationships be successful at work so
don't give up hope it just takes a
little bit of work
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