De kracht van echt luisteren | Marieke Lips | TEDxAmstelveen

Summary

The speaker, a child of divorced parents, recounts her feelings of isolation and confusion during her parents' separation, highlighting the lack of support for children in similar situations. She advocates for a world where children's voices are heard and understood, sharing her dream of creating a role like the 'Kindbehartiger' or Child's Voice Interpreter to represent children's best interests in divorce proceedings. The story of Marnix, a boy whose opinions were considered through this role, illustrates the positive impact of involving children in a child-friendly manner, emphasizing the importance of listening to and supporting them through such challenging times.

Takeaways

• 😢 The speaker, as a child, felt unheard and misunderstood during her parents' divorce, which is a common experience among many children of divorced parents.
• 👂 The importance of simply listening to children and understanding their feelings without trying to solve their problems or give advice is emphasized.
• 👧 The speaker's dream is to create a world where every child feels heard and understood, especially in difficult situations like divorce.
• 🏠 The speaker's parents' separation and subsequent reunion created a tense home environment, highlighting the impact of parental conflict on children.
• 📜 The Dutch legal system involves children aged 12 and over in divorce proceedings by asking for their opinions on matters like custody and visitation rights.
• 💭 The speaker's personal experience of writing a letter to a judge about her feelings during her parents' divorce, without guidance, led to feelings of guilt and confusion.
• 🤔 The realization that children often feel responsible for their parents' divorce and may internalize guilt, affecting their emotional well-being and relationships.
• 👨‍👧‍👦 The call for society to genuinely listen to children's opinions and consider their best interests, rather than ignoring them or burdening them with decision-making.
• 🗣️ The introduction of the 'Kindbehartiger' or Child's Voice Interpreter role in the Netherlands, aimed at representing the best interests of children in divorce cases.
• 📝 The example of Marnix, a nine-year-old boy, whose opinions were considered in a divorce case through the help of a Kindbehartiger, leading to a positive outcome.
• 🌟 The message that children can have their voices heard and feel valued without the pressure of choosing sides or solving their parents' issues.

Q & A

What is the main message the speaker is trying to convey?

The speaker is advocating for children's voices to be heard and understood during the difficult process of their parents' divorce, emphasizing the importance of not making them responsible for the situation.

How does the speaker describe their experience as a child of divorced parents?

The speaker describes feeling unheard, misunderstood, and alone. They also express anger, sadness, and confusion about how to cope with the situation.

What role did the speaker's parents' separation play in their childhood?

The separation created a tense and uncomfortable home environment for the speaker, leading them to feel responsible for maintaining peace and order in the household.

Why did the speaker feel a sense of relief when their parents decided to separate again?

The speaker felt relief because they hoped the continuous tension in the home would end and peace would return.

What was the impact of the speaker receiving a letter from a judge at the age of 12?

The letter added to the speaker's feelings of responsibility and confusion, as they felt they had to express their feelings about the divorce to a judge, without any guidance or support.

How did the speaker's letter to the judge affect their relationship with their father?

The speaker believes that their letter might have contributed to their father losing custody and subsequently disappearing from their life, causing feelings of guilt and confusion.

What is the role of a 'Kindbehartiger' or Child's Voice Interpreter?

A Kindbehartiger is a professional who represents the best interests of a child in divorce proceedings, offering guidance, explanations, and ensuring the child's voice is heard in a child-friendly manner.

What was the outcome of involving a Kindbehartiger in Marnix's case?

Marnix's opinions and the Kindbehartiger's advice were taken seriously by the court, leading to a decision that took the child's perspective into account, and providing Marnix with a sense of relief and empowerment.

Why is it important for children to have a voice in divorce proceedings?

It is important because it allows children to express their feelings and opinions without bearing the responsibility for the outcome, ensuring they feel heard and supported.

What advice does the speaker give to parents, family members, and schools regarding children of divorced parents?

The speaker advises parents to be open to giving their child a voice, family members and bystanders to offer a listening ear while staying neutral, and schools to support children in need within the classroom.

What is the overarching goal the speaker has for children experiencing parental divorce?

The speaker's goal is to create a world where every child feels heard and understood, and where they receive appropriate support to cope with the emotional challenges of their parents' divorce.

Outlines

00:00

👂 The Impact of Divorce on Children's Emotions and the Need for Understanding

The speaker begins by expressing the importance of being heard and understood, especially during difficult times such as divorce. As a child of divorced parents, they felt unheard and misunderstood, leading to feelings of loneliness, anger, and sadness. The speaker's dream is to create a world where children are listened to and understood from a young age, allowing for early support. The narrative includes their personal experience of their parents' separation and the subsequent tension in the household, which they tried to alleviate by behaving well to not be a burden. The relief they felt when their parents decided to separate again was overshadowed by the ensuing legal battles and the confusion and guilt they felt when asked to express their feelings about the divorce to a judge.

05:02

📜 The Consequences of Children's Involvement in Divorce Proceedings

This paragraph delves into the speaker's personal struggle with the responsibility they felt after writing a letter to a judge about their parents' divorce. They believed their letter was the reason their father lost custody and eventually disappeared from their life, causing them to question their actions and feel guilty. The speaker highlights the commonality of such feelings among children of divorced parents, who often feel guilty, responsible, and afraid to express their true feelings. The speaker emphasizes the importance of listening to children without burdening them with decision-making responsibilities and introduces the concept of a 'Kindbehartiger' or Child's Voice Interpreter, a role they developed to represent children's best interests in divorce cases, as illustrated by the story of Marnix, a nine-year-old boy whose opinions were considered in court through the help of a Kindbehartiger.

10:04

🌟 The Power of Listening to Children in Divorce Situations

The final paragraph concludes with the speaker's realization of the positive impact of listening to children during divorce. They share Marnix's story, where his opinions were taken seriously, and he felt proud to have been heard without guilt or the pressure to choose sides. The speaker calls upon parents, family members, schools, and society to be open to giving children a voice, offer a neutral ear, and provide support without sides. The message is one of hope and empowerment, reminding children that their opinions are valued and that there are people who genuinely want to listen to them.

Keywords

💡Listen

The act of paying attention and giving one's full attention to what someone is saying. In the video's context, it is about the speaker's plea for others to hear and understand their feelings without offering unsolicited advice or trying to solve their problems. The speaker emphasizes the importance of listening as a form of emotional support and validation, as evidenced by the repeated request for people to 'just listen to me'.

💡Divorce

The legal dissolution of a marriage, which often involves complex emotions and legal processes. The video's theme revolves around the impact of divorce on children, with the speaker sharing their personal experience as a child of divorced parents. The term is used to highlight the emotional turmoil and the need for support that children face during such a challenging time.

💡Feelings

Emotional responses to experiences or situations. The video discusses the speaker's feelings of loneliness, anger, and sadness due to their parents' divorce. Feelings are central to the narrative, as they illustrate the internal struggles children endure and the importance of acknowledging and validating these emotions.

💡Child of Divorced Parents

A term referring to individuals whose parents have legally separated or divorced. The speaker identifies as one and uses this term to connect with the broader group of 70,000 children who face parental divorce each year. This concept is integral to the video's message, emphasizing the shared experiences and the need for understanding and support for these children.

💡Support

Assistance or encouragement given to someone to help them cope with a difficult situation. The video calls for support for children dealing with divorce, suggesting that early intervention and understanding can mitigate the emotional impact. The speaker's dream is to create a world where every child feels supported, highlighting the importance of this keyword in the video's theme.

💡Tension

A state of mental or emotional strain. In the script, tension refers to the uncomfortable atmosphere in the speaker's home during their parents' separation, which the child perceives and internalizes. The term is used to convey the negative environment that can affect a child's emotional well-being.

💡Legal Expert

A person with extensive knowledge of and experience in law. The speaker mentions being a legal expert to provide context and credibility when discussing the legal aspects of divorce, particularly the process involving children's input in custody matters.

💡Kindbehartiger

A term from the Dutch legal system, referring to a 'Child's Voice Interpreter' or someone who represents the best interests of a child in legal proceedings. The video introduces this role as a solution to involve children in a child-friendly manner during divorce, providing an example of how the system can be improved to better accommodate the needs of children.

💡Custody

The legal right to have and take care of a child. The script discusses the impact of custody battles on children, with the speaker reflecting on the consequences of their own father losing custody and subsequently losing contact with them. This term is central to understanding the legal implications of divorce on children.

💡Guilt

A feeling of responsibility or remorse for some supposed offense. The video addresses the guilt children may feel during a divorce, believing they are responsible for the separation or its outcomes. The speaker's personal narrative and the experiences of other children highlight the emotional burden of guilt and the need for reassurance.

💡Neutral

Not supporting or helping either side in a conflict, disagreement, or competition; impartial. The speaker advises family members and bystanders to offer a listening ear but remain neutral, avoiding taking sides in a divorce. This term is crucial for promoting a balanced and non-biased approach to supporting children of divorced parents.

Highlights

The importance of truly listening to children and trying to understand them, instead of giving advice or trying to solve their problems.

The emotional impact of parental divorce on children, with feelings of loneliness, anger, and sadness.

The annual statistic that 70,000 children are confronted with their parents' divorce, highlighting the prevalence of this issue.

The experience of losing contact with a parent after divorce and the resulting feelings of abandonment.

The child's perspective on wanting to keep seeing both parents and not wanting to be a burden to anyone.

The tension and silent dinners that children experience when their parents live separate lives under the same roof.

The child's role in trying to keep the family running smoothly by behaving exemplarily and helping with household chores.

The lack of surprise when parents announce their separation again, as the tension was already palpable.

The introduction of the legal process involving children 12 years or older receiving a letter from a judge about the divorce.

The emotional turmoil a child goes through when writing a letter to the judge about their feelings regarding the divorce.

The guilt and responsibility a child feels, thinking their letter to the judge may have influenced the custody decision.

The commonality of children of divorced parents feeling guilty and responsible for their parents' issues.

The need to listen to children without making them responsible for decisions or outcomes.

The concept of the 'Kindbehartiger' or Child's Voice Interpreter, a role developed to represent the child's best interests in divorce cases.

The positive impact of involving children's opinions in a child-friendly manner, as demonstrated by Marnix's story.

The importance of explaining the divorce process and its outcomes to children in a way they can understand.

The message to parents, family members, and schools to support children of divorced parents by listening and offering help without taking sides.

The empowering realization for children that their opinions matter and they don't have to choose between their parents.

Transcripts

Translator: Mette Reitsma Reviewer: Peter van de Ven

When I ask you to listen to me,

and you start giving me advice,

then you're not doing what I ask of you.

When I ask you to listen to me,

and you start telling me that I can't feel the way I do,

then you're not taking my feelings seriously.

When I ask you to listen to me,

and you think you have to do something to solve my problems,

you're letting me down,

strange as that may seem.

So please, just listen to me and try to understand me.

And if you want to talk as well, kindly wait until I finish,

and I promise that, in turn, I will listen to you too.

These words could have been spoken by me as a child.

As a child, I felt neither heard nor understood.

Just like 70,000 other children

who are confronted with their parents’ divorce every year,

I am a child of divorced parents.

And I suffered from that divorce.

I am also one of those children

that has lost contact with a parent since that divorce.

I remember thinking, Who’s there for me?

Who can help me figure this out? Who can help me?

I felt so alone. I was so angry.

But above all else, I was very sad.

I was only 12,

and I had no idea how to cope with the situation between my parents.

My dream is that we create a world where no child needs to feel this way.

A world where every child feels heard and understood,

from as young as possible,

so we can find out early what goes on in a child’s mind

and can offer it support.

My parents separated when I was four or five years old.

That is when they were officially divorced.

Later they got back together for the sake of the children.

It turned out not a very good idea

because the same old tension was just as tangible in our home.

My parents lived separate lives.

There was silence at the table,

and my mother sometimes slept in my room.

A strange experience for a child.

It was obvious that something wasn’t right.

And what did I do?

I decided to make sure everything was running smoothly at home.

I behaved exemplarily,

I did my homework,

helped to tidy up our home --

as long as I wasn’t a burden to anybody.

When my parents eventually told me and my brother --

I was 11 years old --

that they would be separating again,

it didn't actually come as a surprise, because I had felt the tension.

I was very sad

but also felt a sense of relief:

Would our house finally be free from that continuous tension?

Would peace and quiet return?

Unfortunately, nothing could be further from the truth.

Things only became more restless.

It turned out there were lawsuits between my parents.

I found out about this at the age of 12 when I received a letter from a judge

that said I would get to have my say about the divorce too.

As a 36-year-old woman,

I can now see that my story could have been different

if only, when my parents got divorced, someone would have been there for me.

Someone who had stood by me, had listened to me,

but also someone who could have explained to me

what divorce was all about;

someone who had ample knowledge of how children think,

and who could have put my voice, thoughts and feelings into perspective

and explain them to my parents,

so I wouldn’t have had to do it.

Let me get back to my story.

As I mentioned, I received a letter from a judge.

To give you some legal background - after all, I am a legal expert -

children 12 years or older receive a letter from a judge,

asking them to express their feelings about the divorce -

about the parental authority, the permanent residency

and the visitation rights.

Difficult topics for children to give their opinion on.

The child may opt to come talk to the judge,

write a letter, or not react at all.

Often, it's their first official mail.

For me this was my first mail.

From a judge - would you believe it?

I didn't even dare to talk to my friends about this situation,

about what I really thought and felt, yet I was supposed to tell a judge?

I didn't dare. And I definitely didn’t dare to go there.

But I did think that the judge expected something from me,

in the sense that I had to solve this issue between my parents.

So I started writing down the emotions I was going through

and wrote a letter to the judge.

Nobody helped me with that letter.

Nobody told me what my thoughts and feelings meant,

considering the situation between my parents,

but also considering my age - I was 12!

Nobody explained the possible impact of my letter on the legal playing field.

And for years, I thought that my letter was the cause of everything

because my father eventually lost child custody.

And he chose to slowly disappear from my life.

Was that my fault?

Was it because of what I had written?

I had surely written that I really wanted to keep seeing both my parents

and that I wanted to live with both of them.

Was that why he no longer answered my calls or the letters I wrote to him?

Why didn't he want to see me again?

What did I do wrong?

Thoughts and feelings that overwhelmed me as a 12-year-old child

and that seeped into everything I did.

I had trouble establishing relationships

because someone to whom you commit may also leave again.

I started to focus on school, was eating less

and felt incredibly insecure.

My story is not unique.

It is the story of many children of divorced parents.

Not the full blueprint, of course, because every story is unique,

but parts of it.

And now, working as a professional with children caught up in a divorce,

they so often tell me how guilty they feel

and that they are afraid to tell their parents what they think and feel,

or that they feel responsible

and think they have to solve the issues between their parents.

In my opinion, we really don't actually listen to children enough.

I mean that we either don’t listen to children at all -

we simply ignore them -

or we only get them partially involved,

or we give them too much responsibility -

like when the child's wish becomes the decisive factor.

But children are not the ones who need to make the decision.

For me, listening to children means to take into account their opinions,

but that we also carefully consider what is in their best interest.

That can sometimes seem contradictory and needs to be explained to them.

Looking back at my own story

and especially considering those children

that have to deal with feelings of guilt and loyalty,

I started to wonder whether things could be done differently.

Would it be possible to involve children’s opinions

in a child-friendly manner?

That is why, in 2015, I started doing research

abroad and in the Netherlands,

and developed the role of Kindbehartiger - Child’s Voice Interpreter.

To show you things can really be done differently,

I want to share Marnix’ story with you.

Marnix is a nine-year-old boy. His parents are breaking up.

They were married and therefore bound to see lawyers.

One of the lawyers was familiar with the role of the Kindbehartiger

and asked the other lawyer

if he would be open to informing their clients about the Kindbehartiger

and ask permission from these parents for providing Marnix with someone

who could represent his best interests.

Both parents agreed,

so the lawyers were there for the parents and the Kindbehartiger for Marnix.

It was a deliberate choice to have several conversations with Marnix

so that he could voice his opinions well,

that guidance and explanations could be offered where necessary,

and to make him feel comfortable with the Kindbehartiger.

The child has to share its whole life story with you

and that takes time.

And together a report was made that reflected Marnix’ opinions

as well as the Kindbehartiger’s expert perspective and advice.

That report was issued to the court.

The judge took that report very seriously

because the parents had their own perspectives,

which was now complemented by Marnix' view and the advice of a professional.

Ultimately, Marnix' view was taken into account

and the recommendation was followed.

After the court session, we sat down with Marnix' parents

and looked at how to have a talk with Marnix,

to explain to him what had taken place during the session

and for him to ask his parents his questions.

And his parents could explain that he would never have to choose between them

and that they had made agreements and wanted to take into account

his opinion and how he felt.

I still remember Marnix during that conversation,

that cheerful face of a nine-year-old boy,

so proud to have voiced his opinion,

that he didn't have to feel guilty,

that he didn’t have to choose between his parents.

He said,

“I was so nervous; my heart was fluttering.

But, yeah, the divorce isn't that bad.

You are actually much nicer to each other,

and I can also go on holidays twice.

There are also advantages to it. ”

And Marnix’s expression made me realize that things could be different.

And if we listen to children, we can also learn from their story

because this is what children tell us:

"Listen to me, explain things to me, but don’t make me responsible.

Even after the divorce, I still need both my parents.

I can’t choose between my parents, even if sometimes it seems that I do.

Offer me support from someone who is there especially for me."

Hearing this ...

Dear parents,

suppose you are dealing with a divorce: be open to giving your child a voice.

Dear family members and bystanders,

offer a listening ear, but stay neutral,

do not choose the side of a particular parent.

Dear school,

stand up for those children who need support in the classroom

and whenever you see that it’s needed.

And especially, dear children,

know that there are people who really want to listen to you

and that your opinion matters.

Thank you!

(Applause)