Comparing PC Parts to Apple’s M3 - Part 1

Summary

The video compares the performance of Apple silicon to AMD and Intel CPUs in desktop PCs. They tested using native benchmarks on both Mac and Windows to isolate the CPU performance. Apple chips performed very well in single and multi-threaded tests, often surpassing the AMD Ryzen 5000 series. They matched Apple SoCs to AMD CPUs based on the test results, but noted that gaming performance depends heavily on the GPU so the matches are not definitive. One surprising result was that the Apple silicon performed extremely well in tasks like audio/video encoding, suggesting custom optimization by Apple.

Takeaways

• 😲 For the first time, they are comparing Apple silicon to PC parts for gaming using native tests
• 😎 They are starting by finding closest desktop CPUs to Apple M series chips using 7 different tests
• 🤔 Picking desktop AMD AM4 chips means limited single core performance match to Apple
• 👍 Tests included Cinebench, Blender, encoding, compression, photo processing
• 😕 Apple chips much faster at encode/decode likely due to specialization for media
• 😊 AMD Ryzen 5000 series a decent match to M2 and M3 chip performance
• ⚖️ Had to balance single vs multi core scores to find best matches
• 🤨 Even best matches not exact due to not knowing gaming bottlenecks yet
• 🙂 M2 Ultra matched to Ryzen 7 5800X3D, M2 Max/Pro to 5800X due to strength
• 😮 One tester was so impressed he bought a MacBook Air to use daily

Q & A

What is the main goal of the video?

The main goal is to compare Apple silicon chips (M-series) to AMD and Intel desktop CPUs in terms of performance, in order to find the closest matches.

Why was it previously difficult to compare Apple and PC processors?

Because Macs and PCs used different architectures and there were no games that could run natively on both, so direct performance comparisons were not possible.

What changed that enabled the comparison?

A growing number of games now support Apple's Metal graphics API, allowing them to run natively on Apple silicon without any translation layer.

What are some of the tests used for benchmarking?

Tests used include Cinebench, x264 encoding, Blender rendering, LibRaw photo processing, and others that can run natively on both Apple and AMD/Intel processors.

Which CPUs were chosen to compare to Apple's chips?

For Apple's high-end chips like M2 Ultra, the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D was chosen. Mid-range M2 and M3 chips were compared to Ryzen 7 5800X. Lower end Apple chips were matched with Ryzen 5 5600G.

How did the Apple chips compare in single-core tests?

The Apple chips strongly outperformed the AMD/Intel chips in single-core tests like video encoding and compression.

How did they compare in multi-core tests?

In multi-core tests like Cinebench and rendering, the performance gap was much smaller between Apple and AMD chips.

What was the main challenge in finding comparable chips?

Apple's chips excel at single-core performance, but most multi-core PC benchmarks favor chips with more cores. Finding the right balance was difficult.

Did the testing change anyone's perceptions?

Yes, one of the testers ended up buying a MacBook Air after being impressed by the efficiency and performance of Apple silicon.

What is the next step after matching the CPUs?

The next step will be to test graphics cards from Nvidia and AMD to see how they compare to Apple's graphics hardware.

Outlines

00:00

😄 Introducing the Apple Silicon vs PC Hardware Comparison Project

The paragraph introduces the speaker's long-standing desire to compare Apple silicon to PC parts for gaming. With more games now supporting Apple silicon natively, the speaker is teaming up with LMG Labs to finally compare Apple chips to Nvidia and AMD GPUs. As a first step, they need to figure out which PC CPUs compare to Apple's M-series chips by testing them with a common benchmark suite.

05:02

🤔 Selecting Comparable CPU Tests Across Platforms

The paragraph discusses the process and challenges of selecting compatible CPU tests across Mac and Windows platforms. The goal was to find native tests isolating the CPU that avoid translation layers. After considering various options, the team settled on 7 tests: Cinebench, FLAC encoding, XZ/LZ4 compression, Blender rendering, C-Ray ray tracing, LibRAW photo processing, and Prime95.

10:04

😊 Reflections on the Enlightening Testing Process

The paragraph provides perspective from the LMG test developer on conducting the cross-platform testing. He describes it as an illuminating process, like piecing together a puzzle without knowing the final picture. As more results came in, the relative performance between platforms became clearer.

🧩 Reviewing the Multi-Core CPU Benchmark Results

The paragraph examines the multi-core results across the CPU tests. Observations are provided on how the performance of AMD Ryzen chips compares to Apple silicon in different tests. The extreme results in some tests like LibRAW are noted, requiring them to be weighted less in the final CPU matching.

💡 Best Guess CPU Matches Between AMD and Apple

The paragraph announces the CPU matches between AMD and Apple silicon that will be used for GPU testing. Since gaming bottlenecks are still unknown, these are best guesses using the test data. The choices provide a range of AMD chips to compare against the spectrum of M-series processors.

Keywords

💡Apple Silicon

Apple Silicon refers to the custom-designed ARM-based CPUs and GPUs used in recent Mac computers instead of Intel or AMD chips. It allows better integration between hardware and software for efficiency and performance gains. The video explores how Apple Silicon compares to traditional PC components for gaming.

💡PC Components

PC components refer to the processors (CPUs) and graphics cards (GPUs) used to build typical Windows gaming PCs, using x86 architecture from AMD or Intel. A goal of the video is to see how Apple's ARM-based chips compare.

💡Native Support

Native support refers to games and applications running directly on Apple Silicon without any translation layer. This avoids potential performance impacts from translation and allows direct benchmarking against PC components.

💡Test Bench

A test bench is a standardized PC system configuration used to test different components (GPUs, CPUs etc). The video describes building test benches with various AMD CPUs to match different Apple Silicon chips.

💡Cinebench

Cinebench is a popular cross-platform benchmark for testing CPU performance, both single-core and multi-core. It provides one data point for comparing PC and Apple Silicon CPUs.

💡Blender

Blender is an open-source 3D modeling and rendering application used as a CPU and GPU benchmark. It exercises both single and multi-core performance.

💡AMD Ryzen 5000

The AMD Ryzen 5000 series chips are modern desktop PC processors based on AMD's latest Zen 3 architecture. They serve as performance benchmarks to compare against Apple's M2 and M3 Silicon.

💡Matching

A goal of the testing is to try and find AMD Ryzen desktop CPUs that closely match the performance of various Apple Silicon chips for different Macs, to create comparable test bench systems.

💡Gaming Performance

Ultimately the testing aims to compare graphics card gaming performance between PCs and Macs. The CPU matching provides comparable platforms before swapping in different GPUs.

💡Bottleneck

A bottleneck refers to the component limiting performance in a system. The video mentions not knowing if the CPU or GPU will be the bottleneck for gaming until complete systems are built and benchmarked.

Highlights

Finally able to compare Apple silicon to PC graphics cards and CPUs using native Mac games

Building custom PC test benches with CPUs that closely match Apple M-series chips

Using 7 computational benchmark tests that run natively on both Mac and PC

Apple silicon has much higher single-core performance compared to AMD Ryzen CPUs

Tests like FLAC encoding and LibRaw photo processing favor Apple silicon in ways unrelated to gaming

Chose AMD Ryzen 5000 series CPUs as closest matches to Apple M1 through M2 Ultra

5800X3D paired with M2 Ultra due to gaming-focused 3D cache

Impossible to perfectly match Apple and AMD CPUs due to architectural differences

Next phase is comparing GPUs head-to-head using the matched CPU test benches

Apple silicon has impressive efficiency and single-core speed

Picking benchmark tests that run natively on both systems is challenging

Matching CPUs reveals gaps in AMD's product stack versus Apple's range

Matching is best guess until measuring gaming bottleneck with GPUs installed

Daily driving a MacBook Air after being impressed by Apple silicon performance

Next phase compares GPUs head-to-head using the matched CPU test benches

Transcripts

[Music]

I've always had a problem comparing

Apple silicon to PC parts because gaming

wasn't ready I've always wanted to know

how Apple silicon compares to

off-the-shelf PC gpus and CPUs and

that's not something we've been able to

test because Macs and PCs now use

completely different architectures and

there were no games that ran natively on

both but that's changed check this out I

am playing Boulders Gate 3 one of the

hottest video games right now on a Mac

and it's running natively on Apple

silicon there's now a growing list of

games that support both Apple's Graphics

hardware and Metal Graphics apis without

any sort of translation layer so with

the help of lmg labs we're going to

finally compare Apple chips with PC

graphics cards and see what gpus from

Nvidia and AMD compete with Apple's M

series though not in this video that's

part two because in part one we need to

build the test benches that the gpus

will be on and those test benches have

CPUs so we're going to figure out what

CPUs are the closest to Apple silicon

and I need to ask Labs if they'll help

me what did I think oh my god well it's

going to be interesting it's going to be

a learning experience we haven't tested

Max really all that much so this is

going to be the first time Labs really

tackles Max Nicholas hey this is

Nicholas Harris he's LTT lab software

developer part of his job has been

developing and automating the tests for

PCs and all their parts here the first

step is figuring out the tests and so

Nicholas worked with test technician

John Duran to figure out how to measure

these two completely different computers

our primary goal was to find tests that

can natively work on either system to

avoid the Rosetta layer because that's

that's another variable that we want to

isolate for but we also by isolating for

the CPU that also limits us because we

do have tests that test the whole system

but we're not looking to test the memory

and the SSD and and the graphics card

yet but our current test suite for mark

bench is very Windows focused so there

wasn't really anything we could just

reuse from that there is a test

framework out there called fonics which

has been there out there for a long time

so we tried to find some that did

compression stuff that did maybe some

encoding things that were just pure

computational they came up with seven

tests and we'll get to them and their

results but first there's a problem

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purchase okay so I have to confess

something I had this idea fantasy really

that Labs would test a bunch of Macs and

then compare it to a matrix of CPU data

that would show us what desktop and

laptop CPUs perfectly match their M

series counterparts but we have to use

new tests so we're starting from scratch

while we would have loved to investigate

every CPU it is wholly unreasonable to

get labs to test them all for instance

here in logistics there are about 150

different CP available to test and that

doesn't even include the laptop CPUs and

all the shapes and sizes they're cooled

in either so we have to make trade-offs

and this is about graphics cards and so

that's why we're only including desktop

components if you're after gaming

performance uh the question then becomes

like okay cool we have three contenders

right we have apple Intel and AMD Intel

changes their socket all the time but

AMD you can go back three generations on

am4 on the same platform and so it's why

we're going to be sticking with am4

chips in our conclusion though we did

run the tests on a few Intel chips

earlier in this

project all right so let's go through

the tests and the results the first we

did is of course cine bench it's widely

used in the tech media space and they

just came out with an update for it

though we did our 23 it includes both a

multi-core and single core score we

chose cine bench because it kind of

chooses itself as it's the prolific

go-to processor Benchmark and it's

really good that it supports apple

natively as well as as Windows looking

at the single core results you can see

how the newest chips rise to the top but

once all the cores get involved you can

see just how the 24 and the M2 Ultra

push it to the top sticking with single

core tests lab did a flack encode test

where they encoded a bunch of copies of

a 9-in nail song from wave to Flack we

actually struggled to find single core

tests because most most tests are all

about loading the CPU and trying to you

know how fast you compute this thing in

this test and another you'll see apple

silicon is so far ahead of the other

chips and they're all grouped together

that's why we're going to be weighing

this test less when we figure out our

matches the last single core tests are

the XZ and lz4 compression test with

both compressing an iunu image we

actually tried like four different

compression algorithms or compression

tests but not all of them worked

sometimes they worked on one but not the

other even though they're advertised for

platform so we did find that XZ and lz4

we were able to compile for for both

natively lz4 single core shakes have

slightly differently from cinam bench

with most of the ryzen 5000 is closer to

the M3 generation but it appears that

with the XZ compression test ryzen has a

bit more strength than it does in cine

bench what was it like to do all the

testing Illuminating testing is pretty

straightforward once you identify the

tests and you come up with your test

Suite the execution it's just while you

do your testing and as now as results

come in it's like putting your your

puzzle together right as the pieces

slowly fit in more you you get more of

the picture however the difference is

you're completing a puzzle that doesn't

you don't know what the end picture is

so it's interesting that way to kind of

see see the story reveal itself to you

all right so how about the puzzle pieces

that tested multiple CPU cores blender

is a popular 3D modeling program and in

it Labs rendered the barbershop scene we

might need to find a new scene as it can

render fairly quickly it's a popular

scene used to to Benchmark rendering

performance in blender in blender the

mid-range amds provide a transition

between the M2 and M3s the 5600 xng are

surprisingly weaker here another render

type test that I'd never heard of is Cay

it's a simple Ray Tracer that outputs

this '90s looking image Cay gives us

another uh render type of test but

mostly we chose it cuz it works on both

so depth we got for some of these but

it's a very simple efficient load to uh

multicore AMD is relatively weaker in

this test with the 3600 sitting between

the m1's and their different cooling the

next test Labs did is lib raw which

tests how well CPUs handle raw

photographs lib raw is also nice that it

has a built-in post-processing Benchmark

which we run 30 times on the test image

that comes with fronix and then it spits

out like a a megapixels per second Libra

is the other test we're going to have to

weigh less because of Apple silicon's

apparent Supremacy it does feel like the

Macs are especially tailored to

calculate audio and visual codecs lastly

if you're into numbers there's Prim siiv

we chose it because y cruncher doesn't

work natively on Mac because we do favor

y cruncher it's a very popular

benchmarking one but uh we found Prim

Prim prime prime CV Prime C it

calculates prime numbers up to a certain

length so we can considered that it was

kind of a it's our standin for y

cruncher and that it's something

computational uh generating number over

over a long period it's multicore as

well we learned a lot by doing this and

that is that this is hard for one

picking am4 means that we've got an

array of chips that don't quite fit with

single core performance as that's where

Apple silicon shines and these are old

but then with am5 there aren't any

low-end chips to compare with the

lower-end Mac chips either single core

is more important for gaming so we

weighed higher but we weighted Flack and

Libra less because they favor Apple

silicon egregiously in a way that's not

related to gaming all right our picks

these choices for CPUs are still even a

best guess because we don't know what's

the bottleneck CPU wise once the gpus

are installed and running games so these

are not exact matches I really was in

fantasy land thinking this was possible

but we've learned a lot we're going to

use the AMD 5800 x3d as a control and to

match the M2 Ultra because its 3D cache

really helps in gaming and the M2 Ultra

screamed well ahead in every test we

threw at it the M2 Pro and Max as well

as the M3 Pro chips will be matched

against the 5800 X the 5700x were

pitting alongside the basic M3 and the

basic M2 and M1 chips are matched

against a 5600 G I'm feeling as well as

I could the only way to feel better is

just you're never done testing you could

always test more right there's no like

oh well I guess I'm done and then walk

away with you know I solve you know

everything and that I guess is the

biggest lesson on this journey and it's

that we're always learning but now that

we have our CPUs figured out the next

step will be to test the gpus have

Nvidia and AMD met their match we're

going to have to see where they line up

but things are looking good in their own

little way personally I wasn't expecting

the Mac the apples to be as strong as

they they were I knew they were super

efficient so this is my first like

really EXP experience um now during this

project I started daily driving the

15-in MacBook Air and I loved it the

fact that I could close it neglect it

for 3 days and it still had power um I

mean I ended up buying one what you

bought a Mac from this project I mean I

did immediately sticker bomb it how dare

you but that's fine thanks for testing

this Mac address Labs uh if you want to

check out another video we did check out

the iPad tier list video and I'm curious

in the comments below who of you are

like Nicholas and bought a Mac for

gaming