Future Proof Your Business: Gen Zs and Hedging Against Rising Debt | Idris & Leon Jala | EP18

Summary

In this episode of 'The Game of Impossible' podcast, Leon and his father Idris delve into the necessity of transforming the global economic model, addressing unsustainable debt and the need for innovation. They discuss their experiences in Indonesia, engaging with future leaders and sharing insights on transformation through business, leadership, sport, and faith. The conversation highlights embracing megatrends, future-proofing organizations, and the importance of adapting to the evolving needs of younger generations, all while maintaining a focus on purpose and legacy.

Takeaways

• 🌐 The world needs to change its economic model, with the U.S. being highlighted as an unsustainable model despite its status as a modern world leader.
• 📈 There is a significant number of Americans living on food stamps, indicating that the U.S. has not developed in an inclusive manner.
• 💼 High leverage in businesses and governments is common but becomes problematic when debt becomes unsustainable, affecting countries like the U.S., Japan, and the UK.
• 🔄 The world is facing a potential shift from traditional currencies to digital ones, which may become the norm in global trade contracts in the future.
• 🏥 The healthcare industry is in need of innovation, especially with the aging population and the rise of non-communicable diseases, suggesting a move towards digital and remote specialist consultations.
• 🚗 Electric vehicles are a growing trend due to climate change concerns, presenting opportunities for companies that can innovate in this sector.
• 💡 Mega trends like climate change require massive investments, such as the estimated $150 trillion needed for energy transition, which may not be feasible with current debt levels.
• 🌟 Successful countries like those in Scandinavia have managed high-income statuses without high debts by implementing high taxes and transparent spending on public services.
• 🛠️ Organizations need to future-proof themselves by identifying and embracing mega trends, innovating their business models, products, services, and processes.
• 🤝 The concept of 'giving away your best' is highlighted as a way to create a legacy and positively influence other industries and sectors through the dispersion of talent and culture.
• 🔑 Key to future-proofing is the willingness to let go of the best talents, document processes, and embrace the revolving door of top talent, ensuring the organization's DNA and culture continue to thrive.

Q & A

What is the main topic discussed in the 'Game of Impossible' podcast episode?

The main topic discussed is the need for a change in the global economic model, with a focus on the United States as a model country, and the challenges faced by the current system, including high leverage and unsustainable debt.

What is the significance of the number 18 in the context of the podcast episode?

The number 18 signifies that it is the 18th episode of the 'Game of Impossible' podcast.

What was the purpose of the invitation to Jakarta?

The invitation to Jakarta was for the speaker to be one of the lecturers at a leadership and development course aimed at preparing decision-makers in Indonesia for the incoming president's administration.

What is the role of the 'IT Christian Fellowship' in the context of the podcast?

The 'IT Christian Fellowship' hosted a Q&A session where the podcast hosts discussed transformation through the lens of business, leadership, sport, and faith, with a Christian Ministry perspective.

How does the speaker describe the current state of public debt globally?

The speaker describes the current state of public debt as unsustainable, with the total debt of the world reaching 307 trillion US dollars, which is 336% of global GDP.

What is the speaker's view on the future of global trade and currency?

The speaker believes that in the future, global trade will likely be denominated in some form of digital currency, possibly a basket of currencies not owned by a single organization or country.

What is the concept of 'Mega Trends' as discussed in the podcast?

The 'Mega Trends' refer to significant global trends that organizations, businesses, or governments need to identify and adapt to in order to stay at the forefront of innovation and transformation.

What does the speaker suggest as a way to future-proof organizations?

The speaker suggests identifying and embracing Mega Trends, innovating business models, products, services, and processes, and eliminating, simplifying, standardizing, and automating where possible.

How does the speaker address the issue of high attrition rates in the consultancy industry?

The speaker addresses the issue by suggesting that organizations should innovate their HR policies to suit the trends, such as giving employees a sense of ownership through virtual equity units and being upfront about their career aspirations.

What is the concept of 'multiplication' as discussed in relation to leadership and talent development?

The 'multiplication' concept refers to the idea of leaders investing in their team members, not just to keep them within the organization, but to empower them to go out and make an impact in different sectors, thereby spreading the organization's culture and values.

What are some of the Mega Trends mentioned in the podcast that organizations should be aware of?

Some of the Mega Trends mentioned include climate change, energy transition, aging population, non-communicable diseases, AI and digital innovation, and the rise of electric vehicles.

Outlines

00:00

🌏 Economic Model Critique and Transformation

The paragraph discusses the need for a global economic model change, challenging the pedestal position of the United States due to high numbers of Americans reliant on food stamps. It introduces the 'Game of Impossible' podcast with hosts Leon and his father Idris, who explore transformation across business, leadership, sport, and faith. The conversation includes their experiences lecturing in Indonesia for leadership development and engaging with a Christian audience, reflecting on how to better connect with younger generations and future-proof organizations, businesses, and ministries with authenticity and care.

05:03

📊 Global Debt and Economic Sustainability

This section delves into global economic trends, highlighting unsustainable public debt and its implications. The speakers discuss the high leverage model prevalent in governments and tech businesses, pointing out the inability of many countries to pay their debts, leading to potential economic decay. Examples of countries with high debt-to-GDP ratios are provided, along with the suggestion that political promises and lack of prioritization exacerbate the issue. The paragraph also touches on the potential for digital currencies to replace traditional ones in global contracts.

10:05

🏗️ Economic Models of Success and Adaptation

The paragraph examines successful economic models, contrasting high debt countries with those like the Nordic nations that have achieved high-income status without excessive borrowing. It emphasizes the importance of transparency, public ownership, and local government control over tax spending. The discussion also covers the need for global economic reevaluation, predicting a shift towards digital currencies and the potential for innovative business models to address wealth disparity and uneven development.

15:06

🚗 Global Trade and the Impact of China's Economic Growth

The focus shifts to China's role as the 'world's factory' and its impact on global trade. The paragraph discusses China's economic growth and its potential challenges with debt accumulation. It also touches on China's changing stance on globalization, moving from a closed to an open market approach, encouraging Chinese companies to penetrate global markets. The speakers consider the importance of observing and learning from different economic models to innovate and adapt to mega trends.

20:06

🌱 Climate Change and Energy Transition Challenges

This section addresses the pressing issue of climate change and the monumental task of energy transition, which requires an estimated investment of $150 trillion. The speakers express skepticism about the feasibility of achieving climate goals given the current global debt levels and call for innovative solutions. They also discuss the importance of future-proofing processes by eliminating unnecessary steps, simplifying, standardizing, and automating where possible.

25:09

🛠️ Streamlining Processes and Fostering a Sense of Purpose

The paragraph discusses strategies for streamlining processes in organizations, advocating for the elimination of redundant reports and activities. It emphasizes the importance of aligning work with a 'true north' and ensuring that all tasks contribute to a clear purpose. The speakers share insights on engaging younger generations, who seek meaningful work and are less tolerant of unnecessary bureaucracy, and the benefits of creating a culture that supports personal growth and development.

30:11

🤝 Innovative HR Policies and Talent Retention

The conversation turns to human resources and the innovative policies implemented at Pando Associates to foster a sense of ownership and reduce staff turnover. The introduction of virtual equity units, allowing employees to share in company profits, is highlighted as a strategy that encourages cost consciousness and productivity. The paragraph also touches on the benefits of transparent communication about career aspirations and the positive impact of supporting employees in their professional development.

35:12

🌟 Embracing Change and Multiplication of Talent

This section explores the concept of embracing change and the importance of documenting processes to ensure continuity as top talent leaves and new talent joins. The speakers discuss the benefits of a revolving door policy, where the best people are allowed to leave and be replaced by others, maintaining a vibrant and dynamic work environment. They also reflect on the biblical principle of multiplication, suggesting that the dispersion of talent into different sectors can lead to broader world change.

40:14

🚜 Future-Proofing Organizations and Adapting to Mega Trends

The final paragraph emphasizes the need for organizations to future-proof themselves by observing and learning from innovative leaders in their fields. It discusses the importance of adapting to mega trends such as aging populations, the rise of AI and digital technology in healthcare, and the shift towards electric vehicles due to climate change concerns. The speakers predict that companies that successfully navigate these transitions will thrive, and they encourage listeners to stay informed and innovative.

Keywords

💡Economic Model

An economic model is a theoretical or practical framework that represents the economic system of a country or region. It outlines how different economic units interact and operate within that system. In the video, the need for a change in the economic model is emphasized due to the current system's inability to sustainably support the growing global population and the challenges of inequality and debt, as illustrated by the discussion on the United States' reliance on food stamps.

💡Food Stamps

Food stamps are a form of government assistance that provides coupons or cards to eligible individuals to buy food. They are an indicator of economic hardship and poverty. The script mentions that over 34 million Americans are living on food stamps, highlighting the issue of inequality and the need for a more inclusive economic development model.

💡Transformation

Transformation refers to a profound and thorough change in the nature, form, or appearance of something. In the context of the video, transformation is discussed as a necessary process for adapting to mega trends and innovating in business models, products, services, and processes to stay competitive and relevant in the evolving world.

💡Mega Trends

Mega trends are broad, irreversible developments that shape the future, often over several decades. In the video, mega trends are identified as significant indicators of change that organizations and governments need to monitor and adapt to, such as climate change and the shift towards digital currencies.

💡Innovation

Innovation is the process of translating an idea or invention into a good or service that creates value or for which customers will pay. The video emphasizes the need for innovation in business models, products, services, and processes as a way to adapt to mega trends and maintain a competitive edge.

💡Debt Distress

Debt distress refers to a situation where a country or entity is struggling to meet its debt payments, which can lead to economic instability. The script highlights that 60% of low-income countries are at debt distress levels, indicating the severity of the global debt problem and the urgency for economic model reform.

💡Digital Currency

Digital currency is a type of currency that is available in digital form and operates independently of a central bank. The video suggests that digital currency may become the future of global trade, replacing traditional currencies like the US dollar in contracts and trade, reflecting a shift towards new economic paradigms.

💡Process Efficiency

Process efficiency refers to the optimal use of resources to achieve the best possible output from a process. The video discusses improving process efficiency through the elimination of unnecessary steps, simplification, and automation, which can lead to cost savings and better performance.

💡True North

True North is a metaphor for the guiding principle or ultimate goal that directs the actions and decisions of an individual or organization. In the video, having a clear True North is emphasized as essential for aligning activities, meetings, and reports with the organization's purpose and objectives.

💡Virtual Equity

Virtual equity represents a form of ownership interest in a company that does not involve actual shares but provides the holder with certain rights and benefits, such as dividends. The video describes how a company introduced virtual equity units to give employees a sense of ownership and to align their interests with the company's performance.

💡Multiplication

Multiplication in the context of the video refers to the concept of scaling impact by spreading influence, knowledge, or practices across different areas or groups. It is likened to the biblical method of discipleship, where a core group of individuals would go on to form and influence other groups, leading to a geometric progression of growth and change.

Highlights

The necessity for a global economic model change is emphasized, challenging the pedestal position of the United States as a model country.

The discussion of the high number of Americans living on food stamps, indicating socio-economic disparities.

Introduction of the podcast 'Game of Impossible' by Leon and his dad Idris, focusing on transformation through various lenses.

Experiences from a leadership and development course in Jakarta, aiming to prepare decision-makers for future challenges.

The importance of discipline of action, as demonstrated by recording a podcast episode despite heavy weather conditions.

Engagement with the IT Christian Fellowship, exploring the integration of Christian Ministry with transformation principles.

The Alpha Regional Gathering conference's focus on youth engagement and the emerging patterns of Generation Alpha.

The concept of 'future proofing' organizations, businesses, and Christian Ministries with care and authenticity.

Analysis of mega trends and identifying organizations at the frontier of innovation to adapt and transform effectively.

The issue of unsustainable debt accumulated by governments worldwide, as highlighted by the IMF.

The political challenges leading to high leverage models and unsustainable debt, affecting social sectors like education and health.

The success of Nordic countries in achieving high-income status without high debts, through high taxes and local government control.

The potential shift from traditional currencies to digital currencies in global trade contracts.

Innovation in HR policies, such as virtual equity units, to give employees a sense of ownership and reduce attrition.

The strategy of documenting processes and encouraging talent to disperse and multiply the organization's culture in different sectors.

The importance of identifying and eliminating unnecessary processes, reports, activities, and meetings to increase efficiency.

The potential for technology and AI to revolutionize healthcare delivery, including remote specialist consultations.

The expectation of a radical innovation in the healthcare industry, possibly led by a company that could become the 'next Amazon'.

The significance of electric vehicles and the energy transition as mega trends, presenting opportunities for innovative companies.

Transcripts

the world has to change the economic

model let's be clear most of us put the

United States on the pedestal of a model

country in the current modern world

system but if I ask you how many

Americans are living on food stamps the

official numb is more

[Music]

than welcome to the game of impossible

my name is Leon this is my dad Idris

Jala we are a fatherson podcast where we

discuss all things transformation

through the lens of business leadership

Sport and Faith it's a very rainy Friday

afternoon today W heavy heavy rain

thunder and lightning massive thunder

and lightning but you know we always

preach about having a discipline of

action so come rain or shine we will

deliver an episode to all of you today

marks our 18th episode gosh where has

the time gone absolutely 18 episode in

the meantime we've also explored doing

some live formats of this podcast right

you were invited we were invited to uh

to Jakarta recently what were we doing

there well that was the invitation of

the the incoming president so what

they're doing is that they're trying

very hard to make sure that the decision

makers in Indonesia are really geared up

and ready for the task at hand so

they're going through a two we uh

leadership and uh development course and

and so uh I was invited as one of the

lecturers at this event and so they have

six batches of that and altogether the

movers and shakers in in in Indonesia

will will be attending this this is the

the president elects uh wish that they

are ready by the time he comes in in

office in October this year yeah and

then last night we uh we did a session

at the it Christian Fellowship yeah you

you the star there yeah that that was

really good I it was the first time us

doing this kind of Q&A format but live

um and I think it worked really well um

this being a Christian audience then

obviously the style of it was a little

different uh it was also our first time

pioneering something which had maybe

more a more of a Christian Ministry skew

uh but trying to weave that in together

with your six secrets of transformation

which I think worked quite well yes it

it worked really well yes last night

yeah and I think in in in in Indonesia

they were very pleased with the the

session that that I put out there and

they requested that I continue to

participate in all the eight sessions uh

program that they have so you'll be

flying in actually again uh next week I

believe next week they asked me to fly

there but unfortunately I'm also

required to be in Singapore for a

similar event so I could not make it but

they they wanted me there so they will

do it online so I will be uh online uh

giving the talk yeah so I mean it's been

a bus couple of uh couple of weeks we've

also just had a conference recently um

in our church we are part of a wider

Alpha Hub and so we had our Alpha

Regional Gathering conference where all

of the regional officers from U the

southeast Asia the Asia Pacific region

gathered together to basically

re-envision um you know why we do what

we do with a greater sense of purpose

but this year there was a bit more of a

focus on uh youth actually how do we uh

how can churches uh and leaders in

general um in business to better engage

with the young people better engage with

not just genzies but even starting to

think about what are some of the

emerging patterns among gen Alpha which

is isa's my my daughter's generation you

know I think with all of this we've been

talking so much about young people and I

think this was also a recurring theme in

some of our discussions with the it

Christian Fellowship uh yesterday how do

we better engage with young people um

has been the topic of the week which I

think has got me to think about how do

we future proof our teams how do we

future proof our businesses how do we

future proof our Christian Ministries a

little bit more effectively and with a

lot more care and authenticity as well

um you know that as you as you

um as as you you know perhaps go through

this time of sabatical um maybe what are

some of your Reflections on that for

pandu

associates let me Begin by by saying

that for for Pando Associates and just

like any other organization and

companies when you put a question how

can you future proof your organization

so there are two things you have to do

and we've started to do that we look at

the big signs we call them the mega

Trends the mega Trends what you see

around the world and then asking the

questions who which organization which

businesses or which governments are are

really embracing these Mega Trends and

innovating themselves or transforming

themselves to adapt to the mega Trend so

that they on the frontier the Casp of

these Mega Trends so you need to

identify which are the organizations

that are at the frontier and if you know

which are those organizations or

governments that the frontier of this

Mega Trends then you ask a question what

exactly are they doing what exactly are

they doing to do that so some of those

Innovation that they're do doing may be

to do with the business model they

innovate the business model they can

innovate also the product and services

that they have they can innovate the

processes so when they do that you would

see that they are beating the

competition so that's why they are there

at the frontier so I think when we are

doing our work we are always looking for

the Mega trends at the same time looking

for the companies that are on the

frontier of the Innovation to embrace

those the trends so that's one way to

look at it the other way to look at the

big signs what are the signs that your

organizations in a state of decay this

is very important you look at the mega

trends that in a state of decay and if

there are problems that will also tell

you you have to work really hard at

making sure that you avoid the Decay

from continuing can we can we talk about

some examples here please yeah yeah

let me just say with with governments I

look at some of the signs the big signs

in the current economic models of

governments around the world many

governments around the world have

accumulated unsustainable debt in fact

IMF announced that if you added all the

public debt of the whole world put them

all together the total debt of the whole

world the public debt comes to

307 trillion US dollar that is

336 of global GDP that means you take

the whole of the gdps of the world add

them all together and compare that

against the global debt the public debt

of the whole world the debt has surpass

it as I said three times 336 per. why do

you think the World At Large seems to be

heading in this direction because it's

not just unique to governments but you

know especially I think in the tech

world world that is the way a lot of

these kind of tech businesses are run

nowadays high growth but very very

heavily leveraged this is exactly the

point the model that has been used up to

now has always been very high leverage

exactly at you point the government

borrows a lot of money but High Leverage

is fine if you can pay your debts so if

you have enough revenue and you have

enough income to cover the payments of

your debt it's okay but when you reach a

point when you are struggling to pay

your debt that's become unsustainable

let's give example United States public

debt as percentage of G GDP is

123% their fiscal deficit already stands

at

7.3% of GDP and take another example

Japan I think is the worst example their

uh debt to GDP is

262 and their uh fiscal deficit is 6

point uh 6% the UK is 9 8% debt to GDP

and there also fiscal deficit

8.4 France is

112% so very even Singapore is already

standing at

187% very high debt by the case of

Singapore they able to pay for it now

but there there Comes A Time if they're

not careful they've unable to pay for it

they run to problem according to IMF

Leon big sign is that I may have said

60% of the lwi income countries are

already at debt distress level

what that means is there are to meet

debt payments alone just to meet debt

payment 100 countries in the world have

to cut spending on education have to cut

spending on health have to cut spending

on social protection for the poor so you

see it is a big problem so to my mind

the world is really struggling with with

this and if you look at United States

and other informing it though I'm surely

there must be something going on in in

The Wider socioeconomic landscape that

might be forcing the hand of whether

it's the business owner the CEO or the

government to end up moving in this

direction that is a problem of politics

because people want to win votes and

most government promise everything under

the Sun so they will make promises

during the Electoral campaign that

everything they will do and that will

cost them money and so the problem was

lack of

prioritization that is a big problem in

government and and why are they lacking

in prioritization because they make a

lot of promises during the election

campaign and that's how they run through

a lot of trouble and so that is a big

problem so the high leverage model is

flown but the good news is as I said

before you look at the big trends the

mega Trends then you ask the question

but who is now successful in backing the

strength but there I would say only

around less than 10% of countries that

have reach high income status have done

it in a manner that have not accumulated

very high debts the example being the

Nordic countries in Scandinavia they

follow the model that they don't borrow

too much money and but in those

countries they have very high taxes they

they tax the civilians a lot because

they very high taxes the government has

a lot of Revenue to then pay for top

notes public transport for public

education Etc and so at the same time

how do they s succeed in doing that to

convince the public why they need to pay

that amount of money I would say in the

case of many countries Scandinavia 70%

of their taxes is actually in the hands

of the local government the

municipalities only 30% is in the

federal government and so the civilians

they go to their town hall to determine

what we going to spend these taxes on

next year they can pinpoint the school

they can pinpoint the the port holes in

the road in that that vicinity the

bridges they need to fix so they know

exactly where the money will be spent so

the model has to change if you want to

tax a lot of people the level of

transparency and ownership as to what

how the money will be spend it must be

made clear to the people not so much

remotely at the federal government so I

would say those are the countries that

have successfully done it and so I mean

Leon when the governments in uh in uh in

Scandinavia if I ask most people the

quiz who is the Prime Minister of

Switzerland very very few people will

know the name and same if I say who is

the prime minister of uh Finland and Etc

and you know all these countries the

reason being the governments are very

small they don't have big governments

because a lot of the power is devolved

to municipalities and the local councils

and that's the way in which they do and

therefore that's why people accept the

taxes and so I would say

today the world has to change the

economic model let's be clear most of us

put the United States on the pedestal of

a country that we say well this is a

model country in the current Modern

World System that's the top but if I ask

you how many Americans are living on

food stamps the official numbers more

than 34 million Americans are living on

food stamps so it's not a country that

has developed itself in a manner that's

inclusive there's a lot of uneven

development and there's a lot of poor

people in America and there are lots of

rich people the gap between the rich and

poor has heightened as well and so I

think there are a lot of things that the

world has to reexamine at the time that

I I spent during my sabatical I began to

look at these numbers a lot more closely

and I'm totally convinced that the the

world has to inov inovate the world has

to look at a entirely new business model

and You' ask the question how is it the

United States despite its debt level and

its fiscal deficit the US dollar keep on

staying strong relative to many

currencies the reason is being most of

global trade I would say 90% of global

trade are denominated or in contracts

are denominated in US currency but there

will come a time when that change I

don't think the MBE will become the the

currency of uh Global contracts it will

be in my view if you ask me to bet 5

years down the road 10 years down the

road it will be some form of digital

currency and that is how it will be a

basket it will not be owned by an

organization be owned by countries that

come together with a model so you do

believe that the digital currencies do

actually hold weight maybe now things

are still a little bit unstable but you

do believe that in the future that will

be the thing yeah but I mean you look at

China China has not developed they have

not grown the de level to the same level

as the world and so but if they are if

they're not careful they will

accommodate the debt as well but I think

they also why do you think they

haven't China has been able to do it

simply because the beauty for China is

they have become the factory of the

world so China for all that you say

today they manufacture everything and

they export them and and so because of

that the development their GDP although

their GDP may not be that big because

they are just a huge exporting country

and therefore they depend on the global

businesses to do it the interesting

thing is that in the past people are

talking about China being an aaric

government they're closing their doors

to trade the global TR globalization

today more and more China is now saying

that we should open borders we should we

should allow Chinese companies to to

penetrate markets globally so the

Chinese model is something to look at

and and watch but I would say it's the

Scandinavians have figured it out some

clous even South Korea have done that

too they have not accumulated a lot of

debts even closer to home New Zealand

hasn't accommodated a lot of debt

Holland hasn't accommodated a lot of

debt it seems to support you know

there's one of our earlier episodes

where I think it was ler who said that

uh a leader is most effective and people

barely know that he or she exists it

seems to be that way because all of

these countries that you pointed out

yeah yeah that they're not really

they're not really in the Limelight not

really in the Limelight interesting so I

my take today is that the world has to

put a cool towel on the head and begin

to analyze the current model because the

signs are not good without doubt I mean

today one Mega Trend you talk about Mega

Trend everybody is talking about climate

change massive issues on CL climate

change but for us to achieve this energy

transition that's being led out Malaysia

has its own National energy transition

plan for the whole world to do it Irena

the body that look at the data here they

estimate that the world were required to

invest something like US dollar $150

trillion

us just to focus on investing in climate

change so that we fulfill the energy

transition goals that are laid out there

Frankly Speaking I don't see how that

will happen because already the debt is

at such a high level

37 trillion us doar Global debt and now

you're saying a third of that has to be

borrowed more than half rather half of

that has to 150 trillion I don't see in

the next between now in the year uh 2035

and 2050 that we can achieve this

climate CH those are sounding like pie

in the sky so unless we find an entirely

new way to do it I don't think how we

can really really achieve those targets

I'm not so positive about it okay so

that's future you know thinking about

the future in terms of policy and then

the other thing you mentioned just now

was process so what does future proofing

our processes look like I think one of

the best ways to improve your current

processes is you call one of the earlier

episode we talk

about Sr

Essa so you look at your processes and

ask the question which part of your

processes are unnecessary and totally

redundant eliminate them e which of your

processes can be simplified really

radically

simplified which is the S another one is

to standardize them so that you don't

cost a lot of money by customization

that is another yes and a is then you

automate them so your processes you you

do not begin with automation you begin

with

elimination simplification

standardization then only automation so

if you start to do this you can really

really make your processes super duper

and that's what you need to that's

Innovation yeah you can innovate your

process big time yeah actually like

there's there's there's so much value in

even if you were to just implement the

first thing which is to eliminate yeah

that can already help greatly in terms

of process efficiency you know I can

think of that just the number of

meetings that we have actually since

done away with in the last couple of

years and what we thought might cause us

to be misaligned uh actually has helped

us to become more aligned because what

we do is when we have started to say we

are not going to have this regular

check-in as a team because we realize

well actually most of the time we're

just doing updates anyway which can be

done on either WhatsApp or email um it

actually becomes a bit of a waste of

time and actually takes away from I

think the whole purpose of having

meetings is to be able to either use

those to be spaces to actually get

things done or to solve problems um but

if your meetings just become a way of of

updating people on what has been

happening it actually takes away from

that and then the meetings then become

uh you know they then become draining

for people and that's why you have

people who are not looking you know who

don't look forward to going to meetings

but you know this is something that I

learned in my time in uh in pandu as

well when I was part of the the

communications arm there which was about

just doing away with the traditional WIP

having most of the WIP actually happen

on a on a centralized sheet whether it

is a productivity tool something like

notion or maybe it's a it's an Excel

sheet a collective Excel sheet all of

that can be done on that centralized

document but then we only meet in order

to solve problems right so only when

something in that uh in that wiip update

requires problem solving then we will we

will agree to to to meet and to discuss

it and that has been far more fruitful

for our teams because then they go into

meetings feing a little bit more

energized knowing that we are actually

going to try to solve something together

versus oh I know I actually have a lot

of work to do but now I have to go into

this meeting just to give an update

which I could have sent on email so I

think even just elimination in itself is

a very powerful very very powerful tool

very powerful very very powerful I mean

you you referred to one which is meeting

but I the way in which we always looked

at it is this thing called

RM R report so you put all the reports

and lay them on the table and ask which

of these reports should you eliminate

there are many redundant reports when I

work in Sri Lanka many years ago Shel

Sri Lanka I realized there was so many

reports that people didn't even read

them but they had to be done because

regularly they required so when I begin

to ask them why is this report there why

do you do it every month and there was

one guy that looked at me sir the reason

why this report was there was 15 years

ago we had a manager he wanted that

report when he left the subsequent

manager came in he didn't want to throw

away the report just in case I needed it

he had another

report so there were then two reports

when he left

he the guy didn't also remove the first

and the second report he added another

report so that is common across the

board nobody crucially asked the

question which of the reports are

actually

unnecessary and so if you get rid of

those reports you will reduce a lot of

unnecessary work on top of that the

remaining reports that you have you ask

the question 200 Pages which of the

pages do you really need do you need 200

Pages you might find maybe only 60 pages

are

necessary and therefore you get rid of

the rest of them you focus on what is

necessary so I think that's R the other

one is activities there's a lot of

activities that one is um is

self-explanatory a lot of things that

you do are unnecessary they don't

deliver Revenue they don't add any value

so you don't need to do those things and

then you have meetings the the one you

refer to the the last one is processes

these are the things that are very

important so you subject the RM to Sr

when you subject them to that you

fundamentally transform I would say in

governments a government that has

really made massive innovation in the

way the government runs is Estonia

because why is that the way in which

they did was they didn't start by saying

let's improve the current processes the

current report the current meetings that

we did didn't do that we just said let's

assume we don't have them let's start a

new yeah starting new what reports do we

need complete with a blank sheet of

paper and what processes do we need and

then they automated them so the most

automated government in the world is

Estonia interesting and so because they

started with a clean slate when we start

to improve from the current processes we

take a light years to make the radical

Improvement because there's always an

argument about keeping the allil and not

not really making fundamental changes

but Estonia is I think it's on the

frontier of e-government because they

fundamentally began by saying let's

start with a clean slate yeah and I

think that's very important because you

know I think one way to the question

obviously would be then how do we how do

we then discern what is worth keeping

and what is worth removing and that goes

back to the reason why you know step one

of of of what we do is to be very clear

on what our true north is and then to

then anchor everything towards that true

north so that becomes your that becomes

your your litus Tesla essentially if

this activity or this meeting this

report does not actually help us um you

knowes does not add value to the true

north then we eliminate but also you

know on the topic of young people um you

know we are seeing this this is not just

unique to genz gen alha but I mean even

even for Millennials um you know I think

the the the younger

we go the greater the importance or or

emphasis on sense of purpose to the work

that you do I think less and less people

are willing to just put up with jobs

that simply pay the bills um but they're

looking for a sense of purpose which I

think is great because that's in line

with what we talk about anyway you know

we always say that what we do needs to

be needs to be purposeful we need to

have a clear True North a true sense of

the game of the impossible that dictates

uh the direction of of of everything

that we do um so I think if

organizations are very clear uh in doing

that I think that sends a strong signal

to our teams you know our vica miles

Tolman was just preaching um two weeks

ago on the topic of how to be a more

effective leader for genzies and you

know there's research to show that

actually

genzies some people you know we we we

might brand the genzies as the snowflake

generation but you know sometimes I feel

that's a bit of an unfair um broad

stroke on them contrary to that kind of

label of genes you know he pointed out

that actually jenz interestingly enough

they're looking for leaders who are bold

but there's a distinction between being

bold and being Brash you know because to

be bold is not necessarily to be the

most boisterous person in the room

because sometimes that might rub them

off the wrong way as well but boldness

simply means being bold or rather having

a conv ition a very strong conviction

about whatever it is that you are trying

to achieve in your organization um in

your team and actually that's what they

want so if we are going to if we are

able to create an environment where we

are thinking very intentionally to

remove things that are unnecessary and

to orient everything towards a true

north actually that is really good for

the next p in this in this this

conversation of future proofing which is

actually future proofing how we build up

how do we look after our our people yeah

yeah absolutely you're right I mean

that's that's another Mega Trend as you

say one Mega trend is the young people

are looking for Meaningful jobs not

just doing the task at hand they really

so we have asked those fundamental

questions in pandu ourselves and how do

we do this and we decided to innovate

when we started to innovate we ask the

question which are the areas that we

believe are really meaningful to the

people

giving them a sense of ownership of the

company so we then concluded why don't

we consider giving them stocks in the

company but then there were a lot of

issues we then found out a way to do it

let's let's not give them stocks but we

give them virtual Equity so we invented

this thing called virtual Equity units

Vu if someone resign you don't have to

worry about what do you do with the

shares do you sell it and all sorts of

legal question so the vus so everybody

in the company owned equity in the

company the senior ones have more the

junior ones have less so every quarter

we announce our result when we announce

the result so all of the staff all the

companies all the people that there they

have dividends based on the equity that

they shared to them when you started to

do this it gave a sense of ownership

tremendous ownership for them and so and

because they own the company in that

sense if they spend a lot of money on it

what it does is that it will reduce the

profit and less dividend so they are

very conscious about cost control

managing cost and then in the past a lot

of people are complaining incessantly

about double hting on many projects but

they are putting the brakes on

recruiting Men new staff because they're

saying if we have more staff then the

more Equity units will be spreaded out

and then the dividends will be less so

quite a number of them are volunteering

for double heading on projects they can

do so our our productivity has really

increase and so uh we completely have

gone uh almost virtually uh a virtual

team we don't I don't have an office nor

do you have an office we all work

virtually uh virtual but we kept only

the meeting rooms for people to come

together and check out and what's up you

for some meetings but nonetheless that's

what people people really want they want

the quality time and we told them quite

clearly as long as you do the task at

hand don't feel guilty going to the

shopping mall during the day don't feel

guilty going to see a movie during the

day as long as you do your task that's

given for the week but requires a

fundamental rejigging of the work when

we started to do this and I kind of

think that the staff really like it and

the other thing that we did was because

in consultancy they're very high

resignation rate and people can't stand

there for too long if I look at the data

in McKenzie bcgs and all the other

consulting firm about a third of their

people 30% attrition annually so what do

we do in staff appraisal we ask our our

our top our people in the team when do

you intend to leave

pandu as part of the planning so we say

and what where do you want to go what

kind of work do you want to go so if the

person say I want after this two years

down the road I think I'm going to leave

for Mandu I want to work in a bank so

what do we do if we have a project

between now and then that is relating to

a bank we put that person to be assigned

to that project because then he or she

will learn the experience about the bank

and so this idea of being very Frank we

also say if you leave us we bless you

for leaving us we don't take it against

you but when you are tired of what

you're doing there and if you're good

enough you have a return ticket yeah in

fact we welcome many of them do return

so again back to the point you say

meaningful adjust in innovate your HR

policies to suit the trends yeah I agree

that helps in so many levels because on

the one hand I mean taking that example

so you know let let's say very upfront

someone has told us that this is what

they're passionate about this is what we

do and we say okay actually well you

know we have we we we'll try to find

avenues for for you to be exposed to

that in the meantime even while you're

seeing out your tenure here at uh you

know whether it's at pandu Associates or

whether it's at htbb wherever it is so

that's good because it gives them that

exposure it also shows that leadership

is committed to actually also trying to

create a working environment that um

that fits with my my my personal goals

as well so that's very good now the next

thing is let's say at the end of it they

think okay well i' I've had a taste for

like you said maybe I've had a taste for

for the banking sector financial sector

maybe I want to go in I want I want to

go there um instead then it's great

because you know number one they either

because they had such a great experience

at P Associates maybe once they've once

they've had their season there they they

either come back but then the other

thing is these same people might go on

to become uh very valuable clients as

well yeah absolutely you definitely want

to have allies like that vouching for

you because they can always say well you

know I have nothing but good things to

say about this this organ ization this

leadership because they were very very

secure about being able to release me

and I think that's something that we try

to do a lot of um at htbb and and this

is very much part of the DNA uh that was

instilled from the basically from the

head church so we are part of a Global

Network of churches um so stemming from

a church called Holy Trinity Brompton in

the UK and one of the things that they

always talk about is this idea of

give away your best you know in the same

way that as Christians we aim to give

away our best to God you know so that's

where that's where the whole thinking of

the tithe comes in you know you you get

your you get your your income and then

the first thing that you do is you give

away um you know most people would say

10% but whatever that percentage is you

give that you give that to God so it's

the same thing with thinking about um

human resource you know who are the best

people that we can be okay um and not

even just being okay but actually

intentionally think about how these

people can then be given away and and to

be released and I think it might sound a

little counterintuitive because you

think what shouldn't I want to keep my

best people um yeah I mean sure that's

that's great keep your best but I mean

one one issue with that is that your

best might probably end up Plateau at

some point if they're in the same

environment for too

long but also I think when we have this

if if we have this default thinking that

everyone in our team is always going to

be with us then it's not going to make

us as intentional about really

reflecting and then documenting our

processes you know you talked about as

Leaders we need to be able to reflect

and it's so important to do that because

actually when we when we know we're in

an environment where we're encouraging

people to go and do the things that they

want to do then it forces us to think

okay whatever we are doing now how can

we make sure that these things these

steps are documented so that ultimately

the ability to continue to grow does not

solely rely on one person but that

ultimately whoever is in there both you

as a leader but also that person who's

handling that piece of

work think intentionally about how do we

create how do we basically make all of

ourselves redundant so that if you have

other dreams that you'd like to pursue

you can go ahead and do that and not

feel bad because you've done your part

to not only do the work but to also look

out for other people that you can raise

other people who can who you can bring

along with you to do the same to do the

same thing um that's very much embedded

in our in our week to week as well

because whenever we do our weekly

check-ins with people then one of the

set questions that we ask is who do you

think is emerging right now and this is

not a question that's limited to people

in leadership but it's a question we ask

even the most Junior people sure you

know because it starts to get them to

think about yeah actually who is

emerging who can who can I invest in so

you create this this this Loop if you

like you know and so when people leave

there isn't a sense that you where you

feel Ah that's a real loss to the I mean

of course you you you miss having them

around but you you can you can allow

people to leave and feel happy for them

in the things that they are pursuing

knowing that they have also actually

left a legacy you talked about Legacy

goals um a couple of weeks ago you know

so how can we I think have a mindset of

creating and leaving a legacy whether

it's through processes whether it's

through mindset in the places that we

work I can tell you that pandu is a

small company small firm but we really

are at a forer of trying to do this and

the reason why I said that is because

people don't stay in consultancy for

more than I mean for a very long time

yeah I mean that's not even just limited

to people would say oh it's a genz or a

millennial phenomenon I mean that just

always been the case because because of

the fact that you know when they have

kids the ladies for example they want to

stay home they don't really want to work

so they take men to for that matter a

lot more very Hands-On dads nowaday yeah

and not not wanting to travel as well

and there's a time in in life that you

want to travel and you but there's a

point in life you see I don't want to

travel I want accidentally job and so

because of that the nature of the Beast

is that we have to constantly deal with

that question that we lose our best

talent every year a third of our people

leave 30% resignation is 30% attrition

in 3 years you have a complete change

out of the company how do you make sure

the DNA continues you document the way

in which of what people work the methods

how they do it and I I've seen it time

and again I've seen when good people

live good people come so if you create

an organization and work environment

that is rewarding rewarding for people

their love is that they have fun they

grow and they develop when they leave

the world gets around and other good

people come too it's like a revolving

door exactly your best people leave some

of the best people come in in this world

I'm totally amazed when I look at the

new talents coming in when I find now

today I watch

today a lot more of the young people are

smarter than the previous young people

I've seen because I think the world

today has exposed them to so much the

exposure they have today if you just

look everything hell equal cist parab as

The Economist always say ien find

everything had equal a lot of the new

people they have a lot of exposure and a

lot of critical thinking the ones that

come to us I wouldn't say that globally

for all countries because I can see it

because we are attracting some top

talents some of the best people come

when we talk to them to your point a lot

of them come because they said oh some

of the things you guys do are meaningful

I really want to come there and learn

and I want to contribute and

particularly when we tell them that we

do work in countries like Rwanda and

Tanzania and we went to Oman in Saudi

doing all sort of interesting stuff they

really want to do that and so if we say

we have a project on poverty eradication

in a country some of them really like it

some we say that we're doing work on

education you can see a lot of hands are

put up there because they really want to

make an impact and so I can see our

revolving though our best people live

and we bless them yeah some of our best

people coming in as well yeah and so I'm

I'm not at all perturbed by that Trend

we embrace it and we welcome it and we

Revel in it yeah and many even in the

Bible the model that we often see at

work um Jesus did this it was how it was

essentially how the early church was

formed and it was through a model of

multiplication absolutely addition it

wasn't about trying to build one Central

Church with the largest congregation but

it was about building up many many of

these small groups of people Jesus only

had his 12 disciples those 12 went on to

form other small groups Sometimes some

of them like you know for example you

see Paul largely only really discipling

this one fellow called Timothy I'm sure

there were other people as well but in

terms of one person that he truly

invested time in it was just it really

just seemed to be Paul and this young

guy Timothy but look at impact that that

had by focusing on multiplication and

even as we were talking about that I

mean for me to be honest I

have right up until this conversation

today have still looked at

multiplication only within your own

context so if I am applying a model of

multiplication in our church context

then okay how do we multiply in terms of

building up our best talent sending them

away to plant another church plant under

our Network multiplying like that but

actually multiplication applies even if

this person leaves the network entirely

maybe if this person even goes on to go

you know to go back to to corporate work

um you know we talk about Christians

changing the world and sometimes you

know when people say that we can make a

difference by the Holy Spirit we can

change the world sometimes even to me I

might think that seems a little

farfetched I can't quite imagine it but

actually as we're speaking I realize

even if people leave not even your

organization but leave the industry um

completely

that's still a process of multiplication

because if they go to let's say another

industry they've essentially not just

left their own legacy here uh in our

current place for other people to then

continue to to build from but what they

would also be doing essentially is if

we've got a strong enough DNA in culture

they'd be bringing that DNA in culture

from here and bringing it to a

completely different sector which we

might not have been able to reach or

speak to merely through talking to them

you know so if we want to talk about

changing the world actually what it

probably takes is for many people to be

able to disperse into different corners

of the world different Industries and

then begin to make that same change from

within and then ultimately that is where

that is actually how we see the world

change when more and more people in

different fields of influence begin to

embody that same culture and DNA I think

that is how we can start to slowly see

um a world form as we would as we would

like it to happen you're absolutely

right your your mom and I were reading

Bible in one year a few days ago and we

were reading acts and in Acts they refer

to Paul he made reference to Paul in the

multipli fication he

spent two years in he in in in the Bible

referring to he spent two years and it's

quoted that during the period of the two

years all the Jews and all the Greeks

the word is all all the Jews and and all

the Greeks in the province of Asia have

heard the word of God obviously you know

that Paul did not go through the entire

place it was through multipli

multiplication that people have heard it

and they spread it that's how the word

was spread around in the province of

Asia that's put in they spent a lot of

time doing that it's incredible two

years he was able to do that through

multiplication and I'm totally convinced

that if you can then find a way how to

do that in in in the Christian Community

the evangelism will be really a

geometric progression the

world changing very fast we all have to

Future proof our organization countries

must future proof while looking at

Trends Mega Trends and the big trends in

the present tool and how they avoid but

the key here is asking the question

which

countes which organization and which

businesses are on the Forefront the

frontier I call it the frontier of

innovation in this area and learn from

them and you don't have to reinvent the

wheel you have to sit there and look at

them one of the big trends to aging

population all countries are going

through a massive aging population and

that means people live a lot longer

there's a lot of things that has to

change for organization and companies

that in the health care business if the

hospital business a lot of what you

intend to do and as we look at the

demographic change agging population

also we realize that a lot more of the

diseases are noncommunicable diseases

lifestyle diseases high incidence

diabetes hypertensions and all of these

and so again if you are in the healthare

business you have to take stock of all

these things and

nowadays the thing on AI as well

you know digital how do you make sure

that the the the best doctors don't

necessarily to sit in your hospital so

if the

basic tests are being done blood tests

are being done and x-rays are being done

there you can get all the specialist

doctors from elsewhere to provide the

input The Specialist input so you don't

really need them all together physically

sitting in one hospital so a lot of

innovation has to be made in that area

I'm totally convinced and today Leon you

can order anything on grab they arrive

with your doorstep why is it that we

can't do that same thing and and for

hospitals today surely there must be a

better way in which to say that you are

booked to see that doctor the estimate

is there are three people before you and

it will take this amount of time so you

don't have to spend an hour your exact

time to to come to the hospital I mean

there's things like that even parking in

area i' say you don't have to go there

and queue up to pay today Mobile payment

is there why do you have to carry all

your and queue up to make the payment I

think even dispensing the medicine at

the pharmacist has to be radically

changed I can tell you there will be

somebody that come with a totally

radical Innovation that will reinvent

the entire Hospital business in this

person who is on the frontier whichever

they are they're going to be the

Champion as today the whole book

business has been controlled entirely by

by Amazon because the guy decided to be

on the frontier at the time or

e-commerce he figured out that he was

going to be the num Uno he didn't stop

there so when he figured out that he

could sell books online then he could

sell anything online and that's why

Amazon is such a huge company and so

successful today all the listeners out

there watch it there will be one fine

day one company will take the center

stage on completely renovating

innovating on the on Healthcare and that

they will become like the next Amazon

well we do we do also have a

non-consulting arm called Prince account

Nishan if you're listening maybe maybe

you can have a crack too but I'm

honestly there are so many ways it's

another Trend that that it's coming out

today it's a very very big Trend and

that trend is to do with uh

electric vehicles and that's a big Trend

as well because of climate change and so

I think in the area of climate change

there is a lot that can be done in this

area

fundamental the the I mean the

opportunities are all there because the

world has to move in that direction and

the companies that succeed big time and

they can find a way how to navigate this

energy transition they're going to have

a Quil of time because those are Mega

Trends you know that's climate change

Trends are because today a lot of people

making excuses why it cannot be done but

the folks that are highly Innovative in

figuring out how to do it they're the

ones who will

succeed I think that's a great place to

end today's episode thank you all for

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