The Line Between Play and Malevolence

Summary

In this engaging lecture, the speaker explores the concept of treating oneself with the same care as one would treat others, a principle that extends to understanding the nature of evil and good. The speaker delves into the importance of play in childhood development and its decline with age, suggesting that playfulness is the antithesis of malevolence. He emphasizes the value of maintaining a playful spirit in adulthood for personal growth and better social interactions, while also discussing the challenges of integrating sexuality into play during adolescence.

Takeaways

• 😄 Dublin is a fun and exciting place to visit, and the speaker appreciates the audience's effort to attend the event.
• 🤔 The speaker will discuss '12 Rules' from his book, starting with the importance of treating oneself with the same respect and care as one would treat others.
• 😈 Evil is a real concept that can be more easily identified than good, and understanding it helps to define what good is by contrast.
• 👶 Children embody the concept of play, which the speaker believes is the opposite of evil and is essential for maintaining a sense of wonder and openness to the world.
• 🧒 Play is crucial for children's development, helping them understand their physical limits, emotions, and social interactions.
• 🏰 Pretend play is not just fun; it's a way for children to practice and understand roles they will take on as adults.
• 🚫 The speaker warns against stopping children from exploring different roles through play, as it's an important part of learning empathy and understanding others.
• 🤝 Good relationships, including marriages, benefit from elevating interactions to the level of play, making them more enjoyable and meaningful.
• 🤔 The precondition for play is mutual consent and desire to engage, which is fundamental to healthy social interactions.
• 🤯 The speaker suggests that an explosion of unhappiness and mental health issues, especially among women, may be linked to interference with children's natural play.
• 🌐 The script touches on the importance of play in integrating sexuality during puberty and the challenges faced in maintaining play as one matures.

Q & A

What is the main topic of the speaker's discussion in the script?

The speaker discusses the concept of evil, the nature of malevolence, and the importance of play as a counterbalance to these negative aspects of human behavior.

Why does the speaker believe that it is easier to become convinced of the reality of evil than good?

The speaker suggests that it is easier to define and recognize evil through observable acts of atrocity, whereas good is more abstract and harder to pinpoint.

What does the speaker suggest as the opposite of evil?

The speaker proposes play as the opposite of evil, suggesting that playfulness and the ability to see the world with fresh, unjaded eyes are indicators of a positive spirit.

How does the speaker relate the concept of play to children?

The speaker relates play to children by stating that children's natural playfulness and ability to perceive the world without cynicism are examples of the positive spirit that can counteract evil.

What does the speaker imply about the importance of retaining a sense of play as one grows older?

The speaker implies that retaining a sense of play is crucial for maintaining a positive outlook on life and for understanding the world in a less cynical way, which is essential for mental health and happiness.

Why does the speaker think that the ability to play is important for children's development?

The speaker believes that play is important for children's development because it teaches them about their bodies, emotions, and social interactions, and it helps them to understand and prepare for the roles they will take on as adults.

What is the speaker's view on the decline in certain types of play among children?

The speaker views the decline in certain types of play, such as rough-and-tumble play for boys and traditional games for girls, as a negative development that may contribute to increased unhappiness and mental health issues.

How does the speaker connect the concept of play to the idea of reciprocity?

The speaker connects play to reciprocity by explaining that play involves a voluntary and mutually enjoyable interaction, which is a fundamental aspect of healthy social relationships.

What does the speaker suggest is a precondition for play among children?

The speaker suggests that a precondition for play is the voluntary participation of all parties involved, indicating a mutual desire to engage in the activity.

How does the speaker describe the neurological basis for play?

The speaker describes a specialized neurological apparatus in mammals for play, indicating that play is a deep and fundamental part of the human psyche and is essential for reciprocal social interaction.

What is the speaker's opinion on the relationship between play and the spirit of friendship?

The speaker believes that a proper friendship is predicated on the spirit of play, suggesting that the voluntary, enjoyable, and reciprocal nature of play is foundational to strong and healthy friendships.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Embracing the Importance of Play and Responsibility

The speaker begins by expressing his excitement about being in Dublin and addresses the audience's dedication to attending his talk. He introduces the topic of the '12 Rules' with a focus on 'Treat Yourself' as a key principle. The speaker emphasizes the importance of self-care and responsibility, contrasting it with the common misinterpretation of the Golden Rule. He delves into the nature of evil, sharing his insights from studying various atrocities and how recognizing the existence of evil can help one understand the concept of good. The speaker also discusses the role of play in children's lives, suggesting that the ability to play is crucial for developing a sense of wonder and openness to the world's miracles.

05:01

😔 The Decline of Play and its Impact on Mental Health

In the second paragraph, the speaker discusses the decline of play in adulthood and its negative effects on mental health. He suggests that societal changes have interfered with children's natural play, leading to an increase in unhappiness and mental illness, particularly among women. The speaker highlights the importance of rough-and-tumble play for boys and the embodied forms of play for girls, such as pat-a-cake and skipping. He argues that these activities are essential for children to learn about their bodies, emotions, and social interactions. The speaker also touches on the role of play in developing empathy and understanding of different roles, using the example of his son engaging in pretend play with girls.

10:02

🧠 The Neurological Basis of Play and Social Interaction

The final paragraph delves into the neurological aspects of play, explaining that there is a specialized apparatus in mammals for this purpose. The speaker posits that play is fundamental to the human psyche and is essential for establishing proper social interactions. He suggests that play serves as a marker for positive social engagement, which can be delightful and entertaining. The speaker also connects the spirit of play to the concept of friendship, implying that friendships are built on a playful foundation. He contrasts this with the spirit of evil, which he describes as a combination of power, compulsion, pride, narcissism, hatred, and resentment, suggesting that these negative traits are the antithesis of the playful spirit.

Keywords

💡Excitability

Excitability refers to the quality of being easily excited or stirred up. In the script, the speaker describes the Irishmen as 'excitable,' suggesting that they are lively and responsive to stimuli, which sets a tone of enthusiasm for the event in Dublin.

💡Golden Rule

The Golden Rule is a moral principle of treating others as one would like to be treated. The speaker discusses this concept in the context of the '12 Rules for Life,' emphasizing the importance of reciprocity and not sacrificing oneself for others, which is a central theme in understanding interpersonal relationships.

💡Malevolence

Malevolence is the quality of wishing harm or evil to others. The speaker delves into the nature of malevolence and its motivation for atrocity, particularly in the context of historical events like the Holocaust and Stalinist Russia, to explore the darker aspects of human behavior.

💡Atrocities

Atrocities are acts of extreme wickedness, typically involving cruelty or violence. The script mentions studying 'atrocious behavior' at various levels, including clinical, political, and sociological, to understand the depths of human malevolence.

💡Evil

Evil is the quality of being morally wrong or having a tendency to harm others. The speaker asserts that it is easier to recognize the existence of evil than good, and that understanding the nature of evil can help infer the existence of good, which is a key philosophical point in the video.

💡Play

Play is a range of voluntary, intrinsically motivated activities typically associated with recreational pleasure and enjoyment. The speaker posits play as the opposite of evil, suggesting that it represents a positive, life-affirming force, and discusses its importance in childhood development and adult relationships.

💡Cynicism

Cynicism is a disposition to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest. The script contrasts cynicism with the openness and wonder of a child's perspective, suggesting that cynicism can blind individuals to the miracles of life and the transformative power of play.

💡Puberty

Puberty is the process of physical changes through which a child's body matures into an adult body capable of sexual reproduction. The speaker discusses the challenges of integrating sexuality into play during puberty, which can affect the ability to engage in playful activities.

💡Rough and Tumble Play

Rough and Tumble Play refers to physical play that involves wrestling, chasing, and other forms of physical interaction. The speaker uses this concept to illustrate the importance of physical play in teaching children about their bodies, fear, and social interaction, which is a significant aspect of the video's exploration of play.

💡Pretend Play

Pretend Play is a form of play where children act out roles or scenarios that are not real. The speaker explains that pretend play is crucial for children to explore and understand different roles in society, which is integral to their development and understanding of social norms.

💡Neurological Circuitry

Neurological Circuitry refers to the interconnected network of neurons in the brain that facilitate various functions. The script touches on the idea that there is specialized neurological apparatus for play, indicating that play is a fundamental aspect of human psychology and social interaction.

Highlights

The speaker enjoys visiting Dublin and appreciates the audience's effort to attend the event.

Introduction to the topic of discussing '12 Rules' with an intention to address some of them.

Rule number two emphasizes treating oneself with the same care and responsibility as one would treat others.

Discussion on the misinterpretation of the Golden Rule, often leading to self-sacrifice rather than reciprocity.

The speaker's interest in the nature of malevolence, evil, and atrocity, stemming from clinical, political, and sociological studies.

Belief in the existence of evil as being more apparent than good, with evil being easier to define.

The concept that understanding the nature of evil can help infer the existence of good as its opposite.

The speaker's approach to teaching dark topics with humor, challenging the conventional serious tone.

The idea that play is the opposite of evil, with children's play representing a pure and uncorrupted perspective.

The importance of maintaining a childlike sense of wonder and the ability to perceive miracles in everyday life.

The decline of play in children's lives due to societal changes and its impact on mental health.

The necessity of play for children's development, including the integration of sexuality and the challenges it presents.

The role of play in teaching children about their physical limits, fear, and social interaction.

The significance of pretend play in children's understanding of roles and behaviors in adulthood.

The speaker's personal anecdote about his son engaging in play that challenges gender norms.

The importance of voluntary participation and the neurological basis for play in social interaction.

The concept that a proper friendship is predicated on the spirit of play and its role in social bonding.

The connection between play and the ability to recognize and engage in proper social interactions.

The contrast between the spirit of play and the elements that constitute malevolent behavior, such as power, compulsion, and resentment.

Transcripts

you Irishmen are such an excitable

Bunch it's always fun to come to

Dublin I think it's probably too much

fun to come to Dublin actually yeah so

uh it's it's really remarkable to see

you all here and uh appreciate as I

always do appreciate the fact that

you've all taken the time and expended

the effort to to come and see this uh I

thought I would wander through the 24

rules and I don't know how many I'll

address but we'll see how it goes so

maybe we'll start with a rule from the

first book 12 rules treat yourself this

is rule number two treat yourself like

you are someone you are responsible for

helping that's a hard

one you know there's an injunction a

moral injunction that you should treat

other people like you would like to be

treated yourself the Golden Rule let's

say and uh rather than he who has the

gold makes the rules right um that's

that's not an injunction to sacrifice

yourself in some unending way for the

benefit of other people which is often

how it's interpreted and it's not that

it's uh it's advice in relationship to

reciprocity and this is something really

worth knowing I've been thinking about

this for a long time you know because I

got interested in the nature of

malevolence and motivation for atrocity

I got interested in the in the nature of

evil and certainly as a consequence of

studying atrocious Behavior at the

clinical level and then also at the

political and economic and sociological

level I definitely became convinced that

it's a very naive person indeed who

doubts the existence of evil I think

it's easier to become convinced of the

reality of evil than it is to become

convinced of the reality of good it's

easier to Define evil than it is to

Define good but if you can specify the

nature of evil you help yourself infer

the existence of good because you can

say to yourself You can conclude that

whatever good is difficult though it may

be to put your finger on it it's the

opposite of

evil I did have this inkling you know

way years ago when I when I taught at

har

I was teaching about very dark things

about individual motivation for the sort

of Acts that characterized say the worst

atrocities of the Holocaust and the and

catastrophic situation with regards to

stalinist Russia those were the two

places I focused on the most and I had

this voice in the back of my head always

when I was lecturing very serious

lectures that if I could really manage

those lectures properly I would do it

with a sense of humor and I thought that

just cannot be right how in the world

can you deal with a topic that dark in a

manner

that's

playful I thought that's but the voice

wouldn't go away and I knew there was

something to it I knew there was

something to it and

so I've been trying to think about how

do you

concisely conceptualize the opposite of

evil how can you tell when things are

going

the opposite direction what if there's a

malevolent spirit that might inhabit you

if you walk down the darkest possible

road what would be the opposite of that

Spirit if it is inhabiting you so to

speak if you were walking down the most

positive of roads and I would say I I do

believe this to be the case that that's

play so you know children play and it

says that there's a gospel statement

that unless you become as little

children you'll never enter the Kingdom

of Heaven that's a very complicated

statement it it means in part to regain

the pristine perceptions of wonder that

you you had as a gift in some sense when

you were a child if you have children

young children you you get to partake in

that if your eyes are the least bit open

because one of the things that's

absolutely wonderful about young

children and having them around and the

way in some sense they pay you for the

painstaking care that you need to

exercise when you're when you're caring

for them is that they enable you to see

the world through fresh eyes and to see

things in their in their untrammeled by

cynicism glory and it's hard to open

yourself up to that you know especially

if you're an adult who's built layers of

shells around yourself for any number of

reasons but children offer you that

opportunity and so one of the reasons

that you should become as little child

is so that you can see Miracles when

they unfold in front of you instead of

being blinded by your own defense of

cynicism and children can definitely

help with that but also children play

and you know we sort of stop playing as

we grow older and we think we mature out

of it but that's not right what happens

is that we can no longer do it and a lot

of that I think is associated with the

shock of puberty you know because you

have to integrate sexuality into play

and that's really hard it's really

challenging for people partly because

you're more likely be rejected on the

sexual front for example and that's very

hard on people and then also it's a more

dangerous game that's for sure and so

it's a big Challenge and a lot of people

stop playing when when they're when

they're

teenagers one of the reasons I think

that we've had somewhat of an explosion

of unhappiness and mental illness um

particularly among women by the way over

the last 30 years is because a lot of

what we've done inadvertently has

interfered feed with children's ability

to play and so for example it's very

hard for boys to play in school because

almost everything they're required to do

is antithetical to the Rough and Tumble

ethos of masculine play that's really

hard on young boys and with young girls

oh I was talking I believe it was to

Jonathan hey recently a famous

psychologist in the United States and he

said that girls have almost stopped

doing Pat cake and skipping and that

sort of thing you know and these are

deeply embodied forms of play that might

be something like the female equivalent

of rough and tumble play among males and

that Rough and Tumble play is a form of

embodied dance you know because if

you're wrestling and and fathers really

like to do this with their kids and kids

really like it and they really need it

it teaches you the extent of your body

you know it teaches you how to twist

your body and to push it to its limits

and to expose yourself to fear you know

maybe your father throws you up in the

air and catches you CU imagine doing

someone doing that to you as an adult

12T High person just tosses you in the

air and catches you it's no wonder

children sort of scream with Terror and

Delight but but they do and they really

you just can't believe how much they

need that to engage in that play because

they also learn what hurts them and what

doesn't cuz the most fun direct physical

play with kids pushes them right to the

Ragged edge of disaster right it's like

it's right where it almost hurts that

it's most exciting and partly what

you're doing when you're playing is

calibrating it to make sure that it's as

exciting as possible but not too

exciting and the Rough and Tumble play

is deeply embodied it's not just

abstract right it it involves pain and

anxiety and excitement and frustration

and turn taking and detention it's very

sophisticated and that's just on the

Rough and Tumble front and then later

you know as kids develop they uh they

start to engage in pretend play and

there's no difference between pretend

play and thinking they are the same

thing you know and children Invision who

they might be they construct a fictional

character uh a father or mother Playing

House let's say that's very common form

of pretend play and then they act it out

and in doing so they inhabit the roles

that they're going to take on as their

adults and if they don't do that they

don't know how to do it you know one of

the things I was worried about to some

degree when when my son was little

uh he had an older his older sister

about a year and a half older he was

often surrounded by her friends and they

used to dress him up like as a princess

or a fairy and I was always looking kind

of at scance at that so I didn't want it

to go too far you know whatever that

meant but then I realized when I when I

was watching he was having fun and so

were they and I was watching it very

carefully to see what was going on and I

thought oh oh I should I got to leave

this completely alone because what he's

doing is acting out what it's like to be

a girl and how in the world are you

going to understand that if you can't

act it out and then if you forbid it say

you can't do that well what's the

message it's like you can't understand

females well of course you can't but you

shouldn't stop

[Applause]

your you should you shouldn't stop your

son from trying that's for sure and so

and that should be done in a spirit of

play and you know if you're if you have

a good marriage good partnership with

anyone I don't care who it is but let's

say a marriage the more that you can

Elevate what you're doing to play the

better off you are in every possible way

you know there are preconditions for

play among children one precondition is

the person that you would like to play

with has to want to play with you right

it has to 100% be voluntary it it cannot

emerge even we know this even psycho

biologically there's a fair bit known

now about the say the underlying

neurological circuitry that's involved

in play because there's a specialized

neurological apparatus in mammals for

play and it's not merely a decoration on

top of something more fundamental it's

this is a very very deep and fundamental

uh part of the human psyche it any and

the psyche of any animal that has to

engage in reciprocal repeated social

interaction because you might ask

yourself you know how do you know if

you're interacting with another person

properly well you might ask well what

does properly mean well it might mean

they want to interact with you it might

mean they want to interact with you in a

way that could repeat many many times

and maybe improve as it's repeating know

you you want to get along with people

and you want it to work now but you want

to work now in a way that gets better

across time and then you might think if

that's the right way to act whatever

that means and it's a stable right way

to act because it emerges out of

iterated social interactions that you

might have an instinct to Mark when

that's happening and that's what happens

when you play and people find that

absolutely delightful if you're sitting

around with your friends in a bar

generally you're joking around and you

know that can get kind of rough but it

doesn't have to but it it could Edge

towards rough because that's kind of fun

and it's a bit proddy you know to see

where you can find the edge and that can

be riotously entertaining and um and

that's all done in the spirit of play

and so you could say that a proper

friendship is actually predicated has

its basis in the spirit of play and then

with regards to the atrocity and evil

that I was discussing earlier say well

if it's power and compulsion and pride

let's say self-center edness a kind of

narrow self-centeredness and a

narcissism hatred a bitterness all of

that mangled together

resentment vengefulness that all

constitutes the central spirit that

inhabits you if you're acting in a

malevolent manner

[Music]