Config 2024: Product management: half art, half science, all passion (Dare Obasanjo, Meta)

Summary

In this insightful talk, Dario Banjo, a product manager at Meta, explores the dual nature of product management as both an art and a science. He delves into the importance of strategy, execution, and storytelling in product management, emphasizing the need for a durable competitive advantage and effective communication of the product's narrative. Banjo also addresses common misconceptions about the role, advocating for a passionate and creative approach to turning customer needs into successful software solutions.

Takeaways

• 🎨 Product management is described as 'half art, half science, all passion', emphasizing the balance of creativity, methodical processes, and personal investment in the product.
• 🛑 The speaker, Dario Banjo, initially questioned what a product manager should discuss at a design conference, highlighting the need for relevance and context in communication.
• 🌟 The talk references Brian Chesky's keynote, pointing out that even successful CEOs can have misgivings about company structure, especially during crises like the COVID-19 pandemic.
• 🚀 Chesky's quote about focusing on shipping things the team is proud of underscores the importance of pride and ownership in product development.
• 🔥 The audience's applause at the idea of eliminating product managers suggests a common frustration with ineffective product management roles.
• 🤔 Dario ponders why people might be against product managers, concluding that 'bad' product managers lack vision, strategy, and respect for other disciplines.
• 🛠 A good product manager's role is to ensure the team is engaged in the highest impact activities to achieve its goals, focusing on driving strategy, execution, and storytelling.
• 🎯 Product strategy should be unique and provide a durable competitive advantage, which is tested by its difficulty to copy and the creation of structural advantages.
• 📊 AB testing is not a strategy but a method to optimize a product once a strategy is in place, as illustrated by the Airbnb example.
• 📈 Execution is measurable and focused, with the importance of setting SMART goals and being ruthless about measuring results against them.
• 📖 Storytelling is crucial for a product's narrative, serving multiple audiences and explaining the product's purpose and benefits through a working backwards process.
• 🏆 The importance of caring about the product, problem space, customers, and team is highlighted as a driving factor for a product manager's success.

Q & A

What is Dario Banjo's role at Meta?

Dario Banjo is a product manager at Meta, supporting teams that work on ads monetization and various ad products, as well as the in-app browser use in Instagram, Facebook, and Messenger.

What is the title of Dario Banjo's talk?

The title of Dario Banjo's talk is 'Product Management: Half Art, Half Science, All Passion'.

What did Dario Banjo learn about Brian Chesky from his previous talk?

Dario Banjo learned that Brian Chesky is the only designer CEO in the Fortune 500 and that he had started having reservations about the company's structure and operations before the COVID-19 pandemic, which led to an existential crisis for the company.

What is the definition of a product strategy according to Dario Banjo?

A product strategy is defined as the unique steps a team takes to achieve its goals in a way that provides a durable competitive advantage.

What is the importance of creating a durable competitive advantage in a product strategy?

Creating a durable competitive advantage ensures that the strategy is not easily replicated by competitors, thus providing a long-term edge in the market.

What is the example Dario Banjo provided to illustrate a lack of a durable competitive advantage?

Dario Banjo used the example of Sidecar, an early ride-sharing service that did not have a unique advantage, which led to it being easily copied by competitors like Lyft and Uber.

What is the primary role of a product manager according to Dario Banjo?

The primary role of a product manager is to ensure the team is engaged in the highest impact activities to achieve its goals, which involves driving strategy, driving execution, and participating in storytelling about the product.

What is the significance of execution in the context of a product strategy?

Execution is significant because it is measurable and focused on short-term actions that enable the achievement of the strategy. Without perfect execution, it is difficult to determine if the strategy itself was good or not.

What is the 'working backwards' process used by Amazon PMs for crafting narratives?

The 'working backwards' process is a tool used by Amazon PMs to craft narratives by first defining the product's name, intended customer, the problem it solves, the benefits to the customer, and a quote from the customer.

Why is storytelling important in product management?

Storytelling is important because it helps explain why the product matters, how it solves user and business problems, and what the product is or does, thus resonating with various audiences such as the team, company leadership, customers, and partners.

What does Dario Banjo emphasize as the three key components of good product management?

The three key components of good product management, as emphasized by Dario Banjo, are strategy, execution, and storytelling.

How does Dario Banjo differentiate between art and science in product management?

Dario Banjo differentiates by stating that product management is half science because it involves a body of knowledge and repeatable processes for strategy, execution, and storytelling. It is half art because it requires creativity in understanding customer needs and crafting compelling narratives.

What is the role of passion in product management according to Dario Banjo's talk?

Passion plays a crucial role in product management as it drives the product manager to care deeply about the product, the problem space, the customers, and the team, which is essential for success.

Outlines

00:00

🤔 Product Management: Art, Science, and Passion

Dario Banjo, a product manager at Meta, introduces his talk on the dual nature of product management as both an art and a science, driven by passion. He reflects on the role of product managers in driving strategy, execution, and storytelling within a team. He acknowledges the negative perceptions of product managers due to poor representatives in the field and aims to clarify what makes a good product manager, focusing on their ability to engage the team in high-impact activities to achieve goals.

05:00

🚀 Crafting a Durable Competitive Advantage Through Strategy

The paragraph delves into the concept of product strategy, emphasizing its importance in creating a durable competitive advantage. Dario uses the example of Sidecar, the first ride-sharing service, to illustrate the difference between meeting an unmet need and having a unique, hard-to-replicate strategy. He contrasts Sidecar's failure to maintain uniqueness with Uber's successful strategy leveraging network effects and VC funding. The summary stresses the importance of a strategy that is not only responsive to user needs but also based on a company's unique strengths.

10:02

🎮 The Dynamics of Execution in Product Management

This section highlights the critical role of execution in product management, using the example of Sony's strategy with exclusive games for the PlayStation. Dario explains that a good strategy requires excellent execution to be validated, and poor execution can mislead the assessment of a strategy's effectiveness. He outlines steps for better execution, including deciding what's important based on customer feedback and product vision, setting SMART goals, and being rigorous about measuring results. The narrative also touches on the importance of pivoting when data indicates a lack of traction, using the Xbox One's slow response to market feedback as a cautionary tale.

15:03

📖 The Art of Storytelling in Product Management

Dario discusses the importance of storytelling in product management, which serves as a crucial component of marketing. A product's narrative should resonate with various audiences, including the team, company leadership, customers, and partners. He introduces Amazon's 'working backwards' process for crafting narratives, which involves understanding the product, its customers, the problem it solves, and the benefits it offers. Using Canva as an example, Dario illustrates how a clear narrative can guide product development, secure support from leadership, and attract customers.

Keywords

💡Product Manager

A product manager is a professional responsible for guiding the development of a product from its inception to its launch and beyond. In the context of the video, the role is emphasized as one that requires both strategic vision and the ability to prioritize effectively. The speaker discusses the expectations from a good product manager, highlighting the need for vision, strategy, and a sense of ownership and accountability.

💡Strategy

Strategy, in the video, refers to the unique steps a team takes to achieve its goals while providing a durable competitive advantage. It is a central theme, with the speaker using examples like Uber and PlayStation to illustrate how a good strategy is not just about meeting an unmet need but also about leveraging unique strengths and creating structural advantages.

💡Execution

Execution is the practical implementation of a strategy, which the speaker emphasizes as being measurable and focused. It involves short-term actions that enable the achievement of strategic goals. The speaker uses the example of Sony's exclusive games strategy to illustrate that poor execution can make a good strategy seem ineffective.

💡Storytelling

Storytelling in the video is related to the narrative of a product, which is crucial for marketing and communicating the product's value to various audiences. The speaker explains that a good narrative explains why the product matters and how it solves user and business problems, using the 'working backwards' process as an example from Amazon.

💡Durable Competitive Advantage

A durable competitive advantage is a long-lasting strategic position that gives a company an edge over its competitors. The speaker mentions it in the context of product strategy, emphasizing that the ultimate goal of a strategy is to create an advantage that is difficult for competitors to replicate.

💡AB Testing

AB testing, discussed in the video, is a method of comparing two versions of a product to see which performs better. The speaker clarifies that while AB testing is essential for product optimization, it is not a strategy in itself but a tool to refine and improve upon an existing strategy.

💡Multi-sided Marketplace

A multi-sided marketplace is a platform that facilitates interaction between two or more interdependent groups. The video uses Uber's strategy as an example, explaining how Uber leveraged its understanding of the multi-sided nature of ride-sharing to create network effects and gain a competitive advantage.

💡Network Effects

Network effects occur when the value of a product or service increases with the number of users. The speaker uses Uber's growth strategy as an example to illustrate how network effects can be leveraged as part of a company's strategy to achieve a durable competitive advantage.

💡SMART Goals

SMART is an acronym for Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant, and Time-bound, which is a framework for setting effective goals. The speaker discusses the importance of setting SMART goals in the execution phase of product management to ensure clear targets and milestones.

💡Ownership

Ownership in the video refers to the sense of responsibility and accountability that a product manager should have for the product they are managing. The speaker argues that product managers who lack a sense of ownership can lead to negative perceptions of their role within a team.

💡Unmet Needs

Unmet needs are the desires or problems that are not currently being addressed by existing products or services. The speaker uses the concept of unmet needs to discuss how successful strategies often involve identifying and addressing these needs in a unique way that also provides a competitive advantage.

Highlights

Dario Banjo, a product manager at Meta, discusses the role of product management as both an art and a science.

Banjo reflects on the negative perception of product managers due to poor representatives in the field.

The importance of a product manager's vision, strategy, and decision-making framework is emphasized.

Product managers should have a deep understanding of the competitive marketplace and customer needs.

The necessity for product managers to demonstrate ownership and accountability is highlighted.

Banjo outlines the three primary activities of a product manager: driving strategy, execution, and storytelling.

Product strategy defined as unique steps for achieving goals with a durable competitive advantage.

Examples given to illustrate the importance of uniqueness and structural advantage in product strategy.

The story of Sidecar, Lyft, and Uber demonstrates the impact of lacking a unique and durable strategy.

Sony's strategy of exclusive games as a durable competitive advantage is discussed.

Banjo clarifies that addressing an unmet user need alone is not sufficient for a strong strategy.

AB testing is not a strategy but a method for product optimization post-strategy formulation.

Execution is defined as measurable and focused short-term actions that achieve strategic goals.

The importance of setting SMART goals and measuring results in the execution process.

Storytelling as a critical component of product management, impacting various audiences.

Amazon's 'working backwards' process for crafting product narratives is introduced.

Canva is used as an example to demonstrate the effectiveness of the 'working backwards' process.

Banjo concludes by emphasizing the combination of science, art, and passion in product management.

Transcripts

[Music]

hello everyone I'm Dario banjo I'm a

product manager at meta uh I support the

teams that I work on ads monetization

which is really uh ads and I work on a

bunch of AD products and I support the

teams who work on the inapp browser use

in Instagram Facebook uh and

messenger uh today my talk is titled

product management half art half science

all

passion so um when I was first uh asked

to do a talk I thought to myself what

does a product manager talk about at a

design

conference so I decided to do some

research so I went on YouTube and I

looked at a bunch of the past talks and

I saw a talk from ban chesy which was

last year's keyot and it was pretty cool

like um I learned that Brian chesy is

the only uh designer CEO in Fortune 500

which is kind of like a pretty cool

achievement uh and he talked about their

path to

IPO and how in 2020 he'd already started

having misgivings about how the company

was structured and running and then

covid happened and their business

dropped like 80% overnight and it was

sort of like an exist existential crisis

for the company and so he had to think

think they have to think about how they

rework the company to get more effective

and more efficient in this time of

Crisis and there was like a really key

like uh quote during that presentation

he said so we talked to the team and we

said hey we're going to focus on

shipping things that were're proud of if

you don't want to put your name on it

you don't ship it designers are equal to

product managers actually we got rid of

the classic product management function

Apple didn't have it

either you know actually we got rid of

the classic product management function

and apple doesn't have it either when he

said that there was Applause in the room

in fact I wasn't in the room but it

sounded like a standing

ovation and I thought to myself great

what do I sign myself up for I'm going

to talk about product management at a

conference where people applaud the idea

of getting rid of product

managers know but but here I am uh so

this the thing I thought was you know uh

I I thought about why would people feel

this way why would they think

that and I realized that a problem work

with a thing about product managers is

that they're just a lot of bad

ones I I've worked with a bunch and I'm

sure you have too and when I when people

talk about not wanting product managers

it's because they don't want people like

this and I'm sure everyone has worked at

product manager who lacks vision and

strategy is unable to prioritize or when

they do prioritize size there's no like

decision-making framework for why they

chose option A or option b uh you've

talked to proct managers who have this

know- at all arrogant attitude that

disrespects other disciplines especially

design you've talked to product managers

who lack awareness of the competitive

Marketplace and don't even kind of have

empathy for what the customers are doing

and most importantly you've met you've

met product managers who just don't have

a sense of ownership and

accountability so when that happens I'm

not surprised that you're you go oh yes

get rid of them and you applaud

right and so what I'm going to talk

about is not you know qu you know like

what not those kinds of product managers

but what you should expect from a good

product manager and what then you should

think about as the expectations you

should take back to wherever you're

working and ask your product managers to

to achieve that's the level they should

be at so let's talk about what do good

product managers do and it's actually

really

straightforward the job of a good

product manager is to ensure the team is

engaged in the highest iri activities to

achieve its goals right that means all

disciplines Engineers designers data

scientists product managers not product

managers uh product marketers are doing

the most effective thing to achieve the

team's

goals and there are really three primary

activities that proct manages

participate in to ensure that the team

is doing this they are driving strategy

driving execution and participating in

storytelling about the

product so let's start with

strategy

right when you talk about strategy lots

of people think they have a clear idea

of what strategy is but they're often

mistaken when we talk about product

strategy a product strategy are the

unique steps you take as a team to

achieve your goals in a way that

provides a durable competitive

Advantage the most important thing about

a strategy is at the end of the day

you've created a durable competitive

Advantage you know and so let's think

about like let's let think about like

how do you tell how can you tell if you

have a good strategy again going back to

that definition there like a few easy

questions you can ask yourself it's

supposed to be unique unique to you and

your strengths so the question is how

hard is it to copy how hard is it for

someone else to do what you ex exactly

what you just did

and then

secondly have you created some sort of

structural advantage or OTE have you

done a thing where at the end of your

strategy it's not easier straightforward

for someone else to do exactly what

you've

done right and I'll run through some

examples if you ask most people excuse

me what's the first um popular ruring

service they'll probably say Lyft or

Uber but it's actually Sidecar

sidecar was a right Shing service I

think was popular in like 2012 uh it was

really the first app the pioneered the

idea of getting a ride from a stranger

and then paying them for that privilege

um and they even had a patent but their

patent was focused on giving people the

opt like on getting people to a

destination and op using the optimal

path so when they launched and they got

a bunch of

traction a a company called zimi ride

was like yo this is a great idea we

should do it too and they launched a

service called lift and that service

became so popular they be the whole

company became lift right and then there

was this company called Uber and Uber

had a town car service and they saw what

Lyft had done and they were like wow

like this is actually a better idea than

our town car service and they've

introduced Uber X and now there's Uber X

and now a key thing to note is sidecar's

idea was a great idea it actually

addressed an unmet customer need of UND

demand

rids but it was not unique like lots of

people showed up to copy it right and

there was no

mo and now let's take a look at Uber so

Uber now was in this space and thought

to themselves how do we win what is our

unique advantage and what's our strategy

for building

aot and Uber had one unique Advantage

which was a crap ton of VC

funding and Uber understood that like

understood that ride sharing is a

multi-sided Marketplace

their Riders and their drivers and the

multi-sided marketplace the way you win

is by creating Network effects where the

more Riders you have the more drivers

show up the more drivers you have the

more Riders show

up and so what happened was they spent a

bunch of money subsidizing both ends

they went to drivers they gave them a

bunch of bonuses a bunch of incentives

which inspired drivers to show up and

and join their service they went to

Riders and subsidized rides I remember

when uh getting a cab from my home to

the airport cost half as much as it cost

to take a taxi of course that's no

longer the case but that was how they

subsidized subsidized things and

eventually enough Riders enough drivers

showed up such that Uber now has Network

effects and like no I don't I I don't

even think about using lift I think

about using Uber because of what they

did and now to recap there was an unmet

user need on demand rides but meeting

that user need was not enough to create

a strategy Uber looked at their unique

strength which is VC funding and they

built a mode via Network effects

strategy let's take another

example Xbox versus

PlayStation way back in the day

Microsoft launched the Xbox after the

PlayStation um I was maxoff Employee

back when that launched and employees

used to bring their Xboxes to work after

after work hours 5 6:00 and hook them up

together using system link to play games

like Halo and we kind of discovered that

it was a whole lot more fun playing

games together with your Xbox than

playing them at home by yourself in a

network Manner and this inspired the

creation of Xbox Live Xbox Live is a way

for people to play Network games

together

online and this was a huge

differentiator for Xbox and it took Sony

several years I think Xbox Live

launching 2002 uh X PlayStation Network

didn't really show up until

2006 and it it created this they

Microsoft addressed this unmet need and

it created an advantage but it wasn't a

durable Advantage I mean it lasted for a

while like three to four years is no

joke but eventually Sony caught up and

now like having a network gaming system

is just table

Stakes right so then it was Sony's turn

to think about how do we differentiate

how do we create emotes what's our

unique Advantage T's unique Advantage

was the fact that they had a whole bunch

of In-House Studios and a whole bunch of

valuable

IP so Sony introduced decided to uh

create a strategy around exclusive games

so Sony introduced a bunch of games um

Last of Us God of War Spider-Man that

you can now only play on playstation and

in fact I own a PlayStation 5 today

despite being an x Microsoft employee

because I wanted to play Spider-Man too

and that's the only way to get it

and that and that strategy has born out

you know it's been you know several

years now almost two decades since Sony

started doing that and Microsoft has

been unable to catch up right again when

you think about unmet user need playing

fun games with others Microsoft actually

did it first So eventually caught up but

that was not enough so took looked at

the unique strength intellectual

property in house Studios and then

developed a mode which was exclusive

games again

is a strategy has to get you to to a

competitive advantage and addressing

anet user need is not

enough one more thing on strategy before

we move on AB testing is not a

strategy every once in a while I talk to

a team and I'm like what's your strategy

and they're like oh we're going to run a

bunch of ab tests and I'm

like AB testing is how you optimize your

product when you have a strategy but

itself is not a strategy

going back to the Airbnb example you

don't AB test your way into building a

product where people rent out their

rooms and that compet to hotels you

don't AB test your way there you do ab

test to find out things like when I have

a listing the photos taking via with my

iPhone perform better than if I take

professional looking photos and airb

actually did that in the show that they

perform 20% better right but the key

thing is that actually test doing an AB

test comparing different things n is not

a way to get to building a building a

product that has a durable Advantage

it's a way you optimize all right and

with that let's move on let's talk about

execution one of my favorite quotes

about

execution is this execution is

measurable and focus it's the shortterm

actions enable the achievement of your

of your

strategy and without perfect EX ution

you can't tell if you had a good

strategy and this is a quote from Naomi

glight who's a vpf PM at meta is one of

my favorite quotes and I'll give an

example going back to

Sony so we talked about Sony's strategy

around exclusive games now think about

what if Sony's games weren't great what

if God of War sucked what if Spider-Man

2 was a mediocre game if that happened

you'd have looked at Sonia and gone

exclusive games are a terrible strategy

but that's actually not the case

the execution was poor but the strategy

was good and that's the essence of this

quote like without perfect execution you

can't tell if you're had a good strategy

and so what I'm going to talk about next

are the steps that will help you get to

a path where you might not execute

perfectly but you execute better than

average and it's really straightforward

step

one decide what's important and deciding

what's important comes from talking to

your customers and intersecting what

they tell you with your product vision

and strategy so you're Sony you want to

you want to build exclusive games talk

to a bunch of Gamers figure out what

kind of games they care about step two

set goals and these should be smart

goals meaning they're specific and

measurable attainable realistic and time

based being time based is super

important you want to ensure that you

have targets and Milestones that you hit

quarterly a half year multi-year you

want to do that and then most

importantly you want to measure

results and this is where most execution

fails because either one you measure the

wrong thing a kind of classic example of

this is early on in the days of mobile

people used to measure and care about

how many downloads you got but if you if

10 million people download your app and

it crashes on Startup you actually have

zero

users right so over time we realize that

there are better metrics to look look to

look after

metrics like daily active users monthly

active users and

retention there's also not pivoting when

the data shows you're not getting

traction now uh like a decade ago

Microsoft introduced Xbox One and

Microsoft Strate strategy to

differentiate was twofold they're going

to introduce the connect and this is a

system where like your body is a

controller and it was a differentiated

uh game system uh system of playing

games and also the wanted to lean in to

entertainment and streaming on your Xbox

but there were two challenges with this

one Gamers were disinterested in

spending hundred extra dollars for this

connect system and two game developers

were like I don't want to spend a bunch

of time building a game for a subset of

your users I want to build a game that

everyone who has an Xbox can play right

and then when it came to the streaming

streaming aspect of the strategy an Xbox

is a 500 $ brick that's pretty noisy and

even back then you could already get

devices like the chomecast or a fire

stick for like a ten of the price like

35 50 bucks as opposed to getting an

Xbox if you you only cared about

streaming so Microsoft had this strategy

that elated users elated developers and

the data clearly said that but it took

the company way too long to react to

that because they were attached to that

strategy and by the time the company

tried to turn that around it was too

late and Sony is now way ahead today and

in fact Microsoft just had to spend

almost 70 billion buying Activision just

as a way to continue to stay in the

game right and that so that's on

execution right and now let's talk about

storytelling The product's Narrative is

storytelling and storytelling is

marketing so a product's narrative has

many audiences the team the company

leadership your customers and your

partners and a good narrative does

multiple team things it explains why

your product matters how it will solve

your user and business problem and what

the product is or

does so I'll walk you through what I

believe is a really valuable tool that

PMS at Amazon use for crafting

narratives it's a working backwards

process so

Amazon account like typically create his

document that has the product's name

it's intended customer the problem it

solves the benefits of the customer and

a quote either from the customer and

exact right let's run through an example

let's use canva as an

example canva the product's name is

canva the intended customer are small

businesses and entrepreneurs the problem

is solved is how to build a professional

looking product if you have little to

know design

skills the benefits to a custom a kind

customer are that they get professional

looking products on a budget and I got

this quote from Twitter I guess it's

called

x uh canvas incredible app for deciding

PR anything you need a huge selection of

templates fronts and colors endless

choices at tip of your fingers easy

editing and sending and sharing now the

key thing about this this narrative is

that look at think about all the

audiences the the product team looks at

this and goes yep we know exactly what

we're building we know exactly who we're

building for we know what success looks

like company leadership can look at this

and go Yep this makes sense we should

totally support this team and give them

the resources they need and customers

can look at this and go yep I want this

product now this doesn't mean that the

PM does the marketing the marketer does

but the thing is the PM builds a

framework and the foundation that the

marketing is built on

so with that let's

recap so what does good fra mention

about it's about three things strategy

which is the unique steps that give you

a durable competitive

Advantage execution talking to customers

setting smart goals and being ruthless

about measuring them finally it's about

storytelling ensuring that everyone

understands who the product is for and

what it does for the

customer now going back to to the DI my

talk product U product managements have

science whereas science is sort of a

body of knowledge and a process I've

talked to you about a number of

repeatable ways where you can get better

at strategy and execution and

storytelling it's half art because art

is about

creativity and so you when you listen to

a c customer and talk to them you apply

your own creativity to figure out how to

turn their unmet needs into software and

additional like when you talk when you

craft your story that takes your own

creativity and finally it's about

passion passion comes in because you

have to care you have to care about the

product You're Building you have to care

about the problem space you have to care

about the customers and you have to care

about your team and with that I want to

say thank you for listening to my talk

I'm darang

[Music]