Dublin Tech Summit 2024 : AI Now and Next a Fireside Chat with Sir Martin Sorrell

Summary

In this insightful discussion, Sir Martin Sorrell addresses the transformative impact of AI on the advertising and marketing industry, comparing it to the significance of the internet and smartphones. He highlights the immediate effects on copywriting and visualization, the rise of hyper-personalization, and the potential bubble in AI market cap valuations. Sir Martin emphasizes the importance of agility, controlling first-party data, and taking back marketing functions to adapt to these rapid changes. He also touches on the strategic positioning needed for Ireland to thrive amidst global disruptions.

Takeaways

• 📈 Sir Martin Sorrell sees AI as a significant force, comparable to the Internet and smartphones, in terms of its revolutionary impact on industries.
• 💡 AI's influence on the advertising and marketing services industry is particularly notable, with the potential to transform how marketing is conducted and personalized.
• 🚀 There is a rapid increase in hyper-personalization, driven by the use of first-party data, which is reshaping marketing strategies and consumer experiences.
• ⏱️ AI is streamlining processes such as copywriting and visualization, reducing the time to market for advertising campaigns.
• 📉 The reduction in time to create ads could lead to a decrease in the workforce needed for these tasks, impacting the creative departments.
• 💼 Media planning and buying will undergo a significant transformation, with AI likely to reduce the number of people employed in these roles.
• 📊 Market capitalization increases in AI-related stocks and investments by major companies suggest a potential bubble in the AI market, as the revenue generated by AI so far does not align with these figures.
• 🌐 The advertising industry is shifting towards using first-party data for more effective and personalized marketing, necessitating a reevaluation of how marketing functions are managed.
• 🔄 There is a call for CEOs and CMOs to focus on agility, taking back control of marketing functions, and prioritizing first-party data in their strategies.
• 🇮🇪 For small open economies like Ireland, positioning as a neutral hub with advantageous tax and investment laws can attract FDI and major businesses, maintaining its relevance in the global market.
• 🔑 Agility, control over marketing functions, and the importance of first-party data are highlighted as critical areas for businesses to focus on in response to rapid changes brought by AI and digital transformation.

Q & A

What does Sir Martin consider as the two main influences in the business world?

Sir Martin identifies geography, particularly globalization starting in the early 80s, and technology as the two main influences, with AI ranking alongside the internet and smartphones in terms of revolutionary impact.

What is the current trend in market cap increases for AI-related stocks according to the discussion with Scott Galloway?

Scott Galloway pointed out that there is a significant increase in market cap for AI-related stocks, with Nvidia being a notable example, trending towards a three trillion market cap. However, he also mentioned a disconnect between this increase and the actual revenue generated by AI, suggesting a potential bubble.

How has AI impacted the advertising and marketing services industry?

AI has had a significant impact on the advertising and marketing services industry, particularly in the areas of copywriting and visualization, where tasks that took weeks can now be done in hours, and in hyper-personalization, where first-party data drives personalization at an unprecedented scale.

What is the term used to describe the current rapid growth in personalized marketing?

The term used is 'hyper-personalization', which leverages first-party data to create highly targeted marketing messages.

What is the potential issue with the compression of time in ad creation due to AI?

The issue is that the reduced time to create ads could lead to a decrease in the number of people needed for copywriting and visualization, which could be painful for those in the creative departments.

What is the advice given by Sir Martin for CEOs or CMOs in response to rapid changes brought by AI?

Sir Martin advises CEOs and CMOs to focus on agility, take back control of marketing functions, and emphasize the importance of first-party data.

How does Sir Martin describe the importance of first-party data in the new marketing landscape?

First-party data is crucial as it allows for seamless personalization and building relationships with customers, which is key in industries being revolutionized by AI.

What is the potential future for media planning and buying agencies due to AI?

Media planning and buying is expected to be revolutionized by AI, with a significant reduction in the number of people employed in these roles as AI takes over many of the tasks.

What is the significance of the deprecation of third-party cookies for marketing strategies?

The deprecation of third-party cookies means that first-party data becomes even more important, as it will be the primary source for personalization and marketing strategies.

What position should a small open economy like Ireland take to stay ahead in the face of rapid technological change?

Ireland should take a position of neutrality, attracting inward investment, and maintaining advantageous tax and investment laws while fostering strong tech and creative talent.

What are Sir Martin's thoughts on Tony O'Reilly as a leader in the business world?

Sir Martin views Tony O'Reilly as a larger-than-life figure with a flare for branding, marketing, and creative areas, who had an intuitive feel for big ideas and was willing to take risks, making him a beloved figure in the advertising industry.

Outlines

00:00

🌐 Impact of AI on Advertising and Marketing

The speaker discusses the revolutionary impact of AI, comparing it to the fifth Industrial Revolution and its significant influence on the advertising and marketing industry. AI's transformative effect is highlighted in the context of globalization and technology. The speaker mentions the rapid increase in market cap of AI-related stocks, particularly Nvidia, and the substantial investment by major tech companies in AI. However, there's a noted disconnect between the market cap increase and the revenue generated by AI, suggesting a potential bubble. The advertising and marketing industry is identified as one of the most impacted by AI, with implications that are both immediate and long-term, including changes in visualization, copyrighting, and the compression of time to market for ads.

05:02

🔍 Hyper-Personalization and First-Party Data

This paragraph delves into the concept of hyper-personalization driven by AI, using Netflix as an example of how first-party data is leveraged to tailor content to individual tastes. The speaker notes a significant shift in marketing strategies, with a focus on upper-funnel campaigns that funnel down to personalized content based on consumer behavior and data signals from platforms. The importance of first-party data is underscored in light of the deprecation of third-party cookies, and the speaker predicts a major shift in how organizations approach marketing, emphasizing the scale and potential of AI in this domain.

10:03

📈 Media Planning and Buying in the AI Era

The speaker forecasts a revolution in media planning and buying due to AI, suggesting that the industry will not require its current workforce size in the coming years. The reliance on traditional media planners and buyers will diminish as AI provides better and more efficient insights. The speaker provides an overview of the media industry's financial landscape, highlighting the dominance of digital platforms like Google, Meta, and others, and predicts continued growth and influence of these platforms unless regulators intervene effectively.

15:05

🏢 Strategic Advice for CEOs and CMOs in the AI-driven Market

Offering strategic advice for CEOs and CMOs, the speaker emphasizes the importance of agility in organizational structures, using Nvidia as an example of a flatter organization with a focus on setting priorities and tracking progress. The advice includes taking back control of marketing functions, especially in the context of first-party data, and stresses the importance of integrating this data into a seamless data lake. The speaker also discusses the potential for insourcing certain marketing functions and the value of having a direct relationship with consumers through first-party data.

20:07

🇮🇪 Ireland's Positioning Amidst Global Tech Expansion

The speaker discusses Ireland's potential role as a neutral hub for tech expansion, drawing parallels with countries like Switzerland and Uruguay that have advantageous conditions for tech development. The importance of maintaining neutrality, attracting foreign direct investment, and fostering an environment conducive to tech growth is highlighted. The speaker also touches on the challenges of balancing immigration policy and the cost of living with the need to attract and retain global businesses.

💐 Remembering Tony O'Reilly: A Marketing Visionary

In this paragraph, the speaker reminisces about Tony O'Reilly, a larger-than-life figure known for his intuitive understanding of branding and marketing. O'Reilly's willingness to take risks and his ability to connect with people made him a beloved figure in the advertising industry. The speaker laments the lack of such charismatic leaders in the current political landscape and reflects on O'Reilly's potential impact had he entered politics. The discussion concludes with thoughts on the importance of cost-effectiveness in global business hubs and the challenges posed by inflation and interest rates.

Keywords

💡AI (Artificial Intelligence)

AI refers to the simulation of human intelligence in machines that are programmed to think like humans and mimic their actions. In the video, AI is discussed as a significant force, akin to the fifth Industrial Revolution, impacting various industries, particularly advertising and marketing services. The script mentions AI's revolutionary impact and its comparison with other technological advancements like the internet and smartphones.

💡Market Cap

Market Cap, short for market capitalization, is the total market value of a company's outstanding shares of stock. The script refers to the increase in market cap of companies like Nvidia, illustrating the financial significance and investor confidence in AI-related businesses, even though there might be a perceived disconnect with the revenue generated by AI so far.

💡Globalization

Globalization is the process of increased interconnectedness and interdependence of countries, which has economic, cultural, and technological dimensions. The video discusses how globalization started in the early 80s and has been a significant factor in shaping the business landscape, although it mentions a current trend of reversal.

💡Personalization

Personalization in the context of the video refers to the customization of content, services, or products to meet individual preferences or needs. It is highlighted as a key area growing due to AI, with platforms like Netflix using first-party data to send personalized messages to subscribers, which is a significant development in marketing.

💡First-Party Data

First-Party Data is information collected directly from consumers by the company that owns the platform where the data is collected. The script emphasizes the importance of first-party data in driving personalization at an unprecedented scale and its role in the future of marketing strategies.

💡Third-Party Cookies

Third-Party Cookies are used by third-party elements on a website, such as ads or embedded content, to track user behavior across different sites. The script mentions the deprecation of third-party cookies by Google, indicating a shift towards reliance on first-party data.

💡Agility

Agility in a business context refers to the ability of a company to quickly and effectively adapt to changes in the market or industry. The video suggests that agility is crucial for CEOs and CMOs in responding to rapid changes brought about by AI and other technological advancements.

💡In-housing

In-housing is the practice of bringing certain business functions, traditionally outsourced to external agencies, within the company. The script discusses the benefits of taking back control of marketing functions and the potential for in-housing as a response to changes in the industry.

💡Media Planning and Buying

Media Planning and Buying involve the strategy and purchase of advertising space across various media channels. The video predicts a revolution in this field due to AI, suggesting significant job reductions as technology automates these processes.

💡Visualization

In the context of the video, visualization refers to the creation of visual content, such as images or videos, for advertising. It mentions how AI has sped up the process of creating ads, which can now be done in hours instead of weeks.

💡Procurement

Procurement is the process of acquiring goods or services from an external source. The script discusses how procurement departments are pressuring agencies to reduce costs due to the decreased time and resources required for tasks like copywriting and visualization.

Highlights

AI is considered a significant force, potentially marking the fifth Industrial Revolution.

AI's impact ranks alongside the internet and smartphones in terms of revolutionary change.

There is a potential bubble in AI investments, with market cap increases outpacing revenue generation.

Advertising and marketing services are among the industries most impacted by AI.

AI enables rapid visualization and copywriting, reducing time to market for ads.

The demand for copywriting and visualization may decrease due to AI efficiency.

AI is driving hyper-personalization in marketing at an unprecedented scale.

First-party data is crucial for personalization and is replacing reliance on third-party cookies.

Media planning and buying will be revolutionized by AI, reducing the workforce in these areas.

Large tech platforms dominate the media industry, with Google, Meta, and others leading ad revenues.

Agility is key for businesses to adapt to rapid changes brought by AI and tech advancements.

Businesses should take back control of marketing functions, especially in the context of data management.

First-party data is essential for building customer relationships and personalization.

Ireland should position itself as a neutral hub with advantageous tax and investment laws to attract FDI.

The importance of cost-effectiveness in global business hubs, including immigration policy considerations.

Tony O'Reilly's impact on marketing and branding, and his intuitive feel for creative ideas.

The potential political impact of business leaders like Tony O'Reilly and Michael Bloomberg.

The balance between domestic policies and international attractiveness for a small open economy like Ireland.

Transcripts

[Music]

good morning uh sir Martin and welcome

to Dublin just to to to kick off just to

give a little bit of context to where we

are right now I mean you've been at the

top since you first invested in wpp back

in 1985 maybe even before s is in 75

even even even 10 years before that so

you you've seen a lot of disrupt

you've seen a lot of change uh where do

you see AI relative to what's gone

before well it's very fashionable to

talk about it as you know a fifth

Industrial Revolution whatever number

you wish to put but look it is

significant in the context of the two

things that I think we think about most

there are two things that influence one

is geography so globalization that

started say in the early 80s with Ted

lit's article in the har a business

review consumers consuming everything in

the world in the same way that's a bit

of a broken or reversing model at the

moment that's one bucket and the second

bucket is technology so whether you're

talking about the internet the

smartphone AI ranks at that level in

terms of revolutionary impact having

said that yeah we had a session at

Goldman Sachs actually in London around

Scott Galloway and um actually it was a

session about anti-Semitism um but it

was a session where he he was talking a

little bit about the impact of AI and

one of the things he said to me that if

you look at the increases in market cap

and Nvidia of course is now the third

most valuable maybe trending towards

being the second most valuable company

on the planet trending towards three

trillion in market cap if you look at

the increase in market cap of air

related stocks and the investment that

the the big the mag mag 7 or maybe the

mag 4

are making in capital expenditure around

AI which this year probably is about 200

billion for the mag 4 and you compare it

to the amount of Revenue that is

generated by AI so far there's a

disconnect which in his view says

there's a bubble being created we'll see

how that plays out but look it is a very

significant it will impact we'll go

through in the next few minutes how it

impacts our industry and I'm doing some

work with the a business school they

have a conference uh called D3 or a a

body called an Institute called D3 we

had a conference uh at at Boston in

Boston about two or three weeks ago

apart from the healthc care industry the

advertising and marketing Services

industry has been the most impacted by

Ai and its implications we'll go into

how it specifically it does it because

there's a lot of clap trap around it

there's a lot of difficult language to

understand and I think we should try and

simplify in plain language as to what is

impact is having on industry so it's big

it may be being overhyped as Scott

Galloway rather like the metaverse which

I think is now underhyped because there

are some big changes taking place in

medicine training Sports entertainment

music that are very significant so big

but you have to watch carefully what's

happening and Sir Martin just going back

to that plain language can you talk a

little bit about what are those big

changes that you're seeing right now

okay so we we see five things happening

specific things happening in our

industry the first two I'm going to talk

about are probably immediate the the the

next three are probably more over time

and time in this context is probably the

next two or three years so we are

talking about short time frames but the

two things that have happened the first

I'm going to talk about is visualization

and copyrighting so what took us say

weeks to do we can now literally do in

hours that that's copywriting

visualization pictures moving uh still

pictures we can create ads time to

Market is very short now that's not

necessarily good news I think in the

audience we have people from the

advertising

industry either listening or or

physically here and it is going to be

quite painful in that are in those areas

because the number of people that you

will need for copywriting and

visualization will be reduced the other

big problem for the industry is we sell

time we don't sell outputs so come on to

that in a minute and the number of hours

that it takes to create an ad is being

compressed and the procurement

department at client clients will quite

rightly say to us the time is less the

hours are less we want a share of that

so I would say in that area which is

being impacted already and we're seeing

significant impact there's compression

and that's what people are worried about

in creative departments the second area

which is the complete reverse and is

super super important and I think you

know going back to your original

question about how big these things are

we've seen literally in the last two to

three months a huge growth in hyper what

we call

hyper-personalization so if you think

about Netflix I'm sure people in the

audience on Netflix subscribers or

indeed Amazon Prime or Disney plus you

will know particularly in the case of

Netflix that you are continually sent

messages which are derived from First

partyy Data that's client consented data

that Netflix has about you and I as

subscribers plus the signals from the

platforms they use it could be Google it

could be meta or or Facebook or whatever

or Instagram it could be Amazon it could

be in a Chinese Contex an Alibaba at

10cent or in a more Global content a bik

dance or a Tik Tok so that first party

data is driving personalization at a

scale that we have never seen before and

the really interesting thing that's

happening is that CMOS and marketing

organizations even of companies that are

doing spectacularly well apart from

those that are challenged by disruption

are looking at breaking their marketing

into two two levels a sort of upper

funnel strategic big idea

creative campaign big idea that then

funnels down to a Content platform on

which are stored assets that can be sent

distributed to you or me depending on

our tastes depending on what the first

party data says a and what the signals

from the platform is our Behavior so on

Netflix you know we might do a campaign

around Rebel moon or around narcos we

know that Tom likes sport for example

that he watches Manchester United or

whatever so we'll create a piece of

content that appeals to you from that

point of you this is a huge development

and the scale that we're talking about

is phenomenal before the development the

more recent development of AI because AI

has been there since Google really

started with Deep Mind in 19 in

2014 um what we're seeing we used to

produce maybe 1 and a half million in

theory different assets for a Netflix

campaign we can now do that on steroids

so I call this Netflix on steroids and

that is huge and in my view you are

going to see major organizations shift

the way they do their marketing to

Encompass that so that's around first

party data and also deprecation of third

party cookies because Google now they've

postponed the date again from the end of

this year but in the coming that's going

to be the deprecation of those cookies

so that's the second area the the other

three are more longterm media planning

and buying is going to be revolutionized

I know there are people in the audience

that are from media planning and buying

agencies the average Network in the

holding companies probably employs about

10 to 15,000 people there is no way that

they're going to be employing 10 to

15,000 people in 3 years time the

industry for medium planning and buying

is probably 250,000 people again there

is no way there will be 250,000 people

our clients will not rely on a 25

yearold media planner or media buyer for

their inputs the interesting thing is

whoever is left to evaluate the

information and there will be a large

number of people still left will have

better information and just to put it in

perspective so everybody understands the

numbers the media industry last year was

about 950 billion doar 300 billion of

that was traditional linear media Disney

ABC NBC whatever it happens to be CBS

ITV whatever the other

650 billion

was digital of that Google ad revenues

were about 225 billion meta were 125 and

abison were 50 we don't got the data on

Alibaba and 10cent but Tik Tok just to

put it in probably last year was about

20 billion outside China and about this

year will be about 35 billion so it

gives you an idea of orders of magnitude

snap was 6 A5 billion Walmart with its

ad platform 3 billion Microsoft probably

last year around 15 billion with all its

its expansion now into open Ai and Mell

and whatever and Activision Blizzard and

then Apple probably about 8 or9 billion

so the big beasts if I can put it that

way are the big three Western platforms

and the big three Eastern platforms they

Dominate and they will continue to

dominate unless The Regulators take a

radically different approach I mean

they're trying to restrict but there's

no way the regulator is going to keep up

with the platforms I mean you got to

remember I said Nvidia is approaching 3

trillion Apple's 3 trillion that is as

big as the if you equate market cap to

GDP Apple's a country Apple's as big as

the

UK you know uh Nvidia will be as big as

the

UK so these are very big companies which

will continue to expand The Regulators

prevented them from expanding by

acquisition but what does Microsoft do

satch Aela takes a stake in open Ai and

in return for that a Microsoft

Technology

dominates same with mistal g42 in the

Middle East I mean what n satcha has

done is he's pivoted Microsoft very very

quickly not by acquiring but by taking

stakes and supplying the technology a

very very strong and creating one

Microsoft actually very interesting

difference between the way he's running

Microsoft and where Steve Balmer ran it

when he ran it in separ divisions so the

these companies dominate the space and

apart from musk and obviously Microsoft

Apple Invidia probably Oracle Salesforce

and Adobe apart from those companies

those big platforms are going to

continue to grow so for example Ireland

where Google has a massive presence I

would expect that presence to grow and

expand very significantly in the future

and Sir Martin we we room for the tech

leaders uh is any advice that you'd give

CEOs or CMOS in terms of what they

should do to respond to this rapid

change well I think there are three sort

of

areas that that you have to think about

the first is and this is sounds like

apple you know motherhood and apple pie

but I think it's really important is

agility um Nvidia is a really

interesting company in terms of the way

it's run if you talk to

people in Nvidia they they the the the

normal reporting span inside uh inside a

a company if you went to McKenzie they

would say you should only have 12 people

a maximum of 12 people reporting to you

I think I'm right and saying Jensen Wang

has something like 50 people reporting

to he has very apparently very few

onetoone meetings he sets people

priorities let's three three or four or

five priorities and then progress chases

whether those priorities are being

implemented what you're having is a much

flatter organization it's really

interesting I was at a dinner last night

with the Crick Institute the the the

Medical Institute the Cancer Institute

that's been for been operating for seven

years and a Paul nurse who runs the

Institute runs it in a very different

way actually quite similar in many

respects to the way that Institute is

run and where Nvidia is run in terms of

the flattening of the organization and

Agility in both cases whether you're

talking about the crick or whether

you're talking about Nvidia agility is

the key so CEOs always you know when you

do your books about companies about Ryan

Air or whatever it happens to be I'm

sure they all say their organizations

are agile we say that about our own

organization the simple fact is they're

not agile enough so agility is one thing

the second thing is after the great

financial crisis there was a tendency

with zerob based budgeting to Outsource

to agencies like

ourselves um every activity I think in

this world where you've got deprecation

of third party cookies and first party

data is so much more important

integrating the first party data into

one sort of data Lake that flows

effortlessly between all the the

businesses is really critically

important so taking back control of many

of the marketing functions it might

sound odd coming from somebody in the

agency business we we have three models

we have the outsourc model we have the

embedded model where we put people into

clients like actually alphabet and

Google on the Google Plex or wherever it

happens to be in the world and then

thirdly is the insource model we were

the subject of a half a business school

case study on T-Mobile and Sprint where

we inhouse their media we're not

frightened to do ourselves out of a job

in a sense there's always a tech element

to what we do after sales of in housing

and also uh people Personnel because

there's rotation of people so supplying

Talent is always important so there's

always a continued connection so I would

say Take Back Control is the second

thing and the third thing that's really

important is first body data I can't

stress enough how important it is for

every client in this room and Beyond to

have seamless sources of first party

data because that is the key to building

the relationship for example the work

that we're doing in Europe with BMW is

really interesting because we've created

that content platform that I referred to

before for 27 markets around

Europe and the BMW for the first time

with mini is going direct so you you

don't necessarily have to buy a car from

a dealer you can buy it direct from the

factory for the first time BMW have

control of data hither to it was under

the control of the dealers so every

industry when we we've recently been

looking at the banking industry one

client we know has 80 million consumers

on its data base it has a personalizing

engine it's in the global banking

business has a travel company it knows

that Tom books a ticket to London from

New York or from Dublin to New York and

back again will'll send you they send

you the restaurants in New York that you

should go you should use their credit

card obviously for that so the

personalization of data is absolutely

key we see it in the insurance industry

we see it in the fast food industry we

see it in the consumer goods industry

all Industries are being revolutionized

so sum up agility Take Back Control and

first party data and Martin where where

do for a small open economy like Ireland

where do you think the Wii Fit in uh I

mean you were talking to the minister

backstage is it is like how do we how do

we stay in front of this of this rapid

change well it's there's an irin here

and sadly we came out of Europe I mean

it's interesting in the the UK campaign

the election campaign that just just

fired the starting gun a week or so ago

there's been little or no discussion as

to whether it was a mistake to come out

of Europe or not the positioning that

the pro brexiteers or the pro brexit

people took was what was called

Singapore on steroids or Singapore on

temps and that's the positioning I think

Ireland you know with a population of 5

million people has to take so it it has

to take a position of what I would call

neutrality so if you were likening it

Latin America Uruguay is really

interesting it sits between Brazil and

Argentina and probably historically the

ugui will kill me for saying this but

historically there's probably no reason

for it to exist but it's a Switzerland

if you like within a Latin American cont

it has advantageous tax and banking laws

it has free ports for software

development and Tech development very

good Tech labor very good people very

good managers actually I've spoken to a

lot of Latin American companies who find

Uruguayan managers really good and

sometimes much better than argentinians

or Brazilians but that's a good example

in Europe obviously Switzerland would be

an example of this

neutrality uh where you have strong

Talent strong Tech Talent strong

creative talent you have advantageous

tax laws you have advantageous

investment laws and then in in Asia it

will be Singapore so so that that

positioning but what's really important

in my view is for Ireland to maintain

that neutrality it has to be uh a nation

which is impartial doesn't take sides

and sits there uh and you know

immigration obviously is a hot issue in

the context of the elections uh here in

Ireland the local elections coming up in

a few weeks time um and and the housing

issues and cost of housing and in that

context I think it's quite difficult to

maintain the balance but I think the

government has to maintain a policy of

attracting inward investment FDI

locating major businesses I referenced

alphabet meta and others uh here in here

in Dublin and there has to be more of

that so I think that's the positioning

but but not getting you know you

probably have to to put it crudely play

both ends off against the middle it's a

neutral position where you you know

things the things that are happening in

the world the the the rise of populism

the rise of extremism not just in the UK

but in the US and elsewhere poses

interesting advantages you know for

example in the UK

nonon exiting private Equity will be

taxed I mean stama has and Rachel Reeves

have confirmed they will tax private

equity on their carriers that's going to

that's going to lead to fluidity so the

sort of things that you see happening in

Portugal you know around Lisbon uh the

sort of things you see happening in isra

in in Italy and indeed in Israel before

the war actually was similar examples of

what's been happen Greece would be

another example and just I I'm conscious

of your time sir Martin so just one last

question you're telling me politely to

shut

up just we we were discussing uh Tony

O'Reilly before we came on stage uh you

know creator of carry gold leader in

hindes so many successes yeah uh could

you just share a few of your thoughts

yeah well he's a lot larger than life

figure both literally or was literally

and figuratively um you know I knew him

well when he was um running

hindes um before he moved on to sadly

onto Waterford and obviously in the

independent um but he really understood

marketing he had flare I mean we loved

him because and love I I use

advisedly um firstly because he was a

wonderful rack onour I mean evening with

him or even 5 minutes with him was full

of full of laughter and joy but we we

loved him because he had an intuitive

feel for Branding marketing and the feel

the the creative area understood the

importance of big ideas and big thoughts

and is was willing to take gut moves I

mean people in the advertising industry

love that they love clients who know

you you've been up carousing late at

night like Don Draper in Mad Men you

come into the room and you sell the

client on a campaign in 30 seconds and

it sold inity he was that type of person

and in a and in the era D I say it when

political leadership is lacking you know

I take I take Tony Tony Blair back in a

heartbeat in relation to the candidates

that we have running in the UK um in an

era when when political flare is lacking

there is no Kennedy there is no Reagan

there is no Thatcher there is no

Blair you know there there are no the

characters you you look around the world

as to where the great leaders are

certainly in the non autocratic area

there are very few of quality he you

know he stands out I mean I think we

were saying it's rather sad I mean he

did flirt with political issues they are

fund and other things at various points

in time but if he'd gone into politics I

mean he would have been I think

outstanding and um I'm quite close to

Mayor Bloomberg and Bloomberg

philanthropies and Michael is another

example of something an outstanding

businessman who sadly didn't really

maybe Michael was different in terms of

personality but really didn't yeah hit

it hit the ball out of the park

politically and I think it's sad because

I think he he had an awful lot to give I

we were talking about Waterford and what

happened there and I think the the

analysis was he was unwilling to move

the manufacturing of Waterford away from

Ireland to Eastern Europe or Asia or

whatever and that was one of the reasons

for the demise of it because of the high

cost of manufacturing by the way that's

an really important point when we talk

about neutrality and Irish positioning

cost is an issue so the hubs that we're

developing for example the around the

world whether the Mexico City or botar

or S Paulo or San Carlos which is a

University Town in Brazil or indeed

Monte Vio or in Buenos arez or in quala

lumur or Eastern Europe certainly before

the Ukrainian War those hubs have to be

effective from a cost point of view so

the immigration policy plays into that

um I think the government here has to

think carefully about how they balance

it from a domestic and international

point view because it's all very well

having the Hub with the tax advantages

Etc and the FDI advantages but cost for

a global company particularly in a world

where inflation is likely to where

growth is going to be slower inflation

is going to be higher than we've been

used to and interest rates are going to

be higher than we've been used to cost

is a big issue but you going back to

Tony I think it's um it was a very sad

moment when I read about you know that

he passed away and I know you went to

the Celebration I unfortunately was not

able to get there but it sounded though

it was an it was a lunch that went on I

think till about 2 in the morning it was

a lunch that went certainly went on for

10 hours I think uh look sir Martin sell

thank you very much for sharing your

insights with us all here today um a

true advertising Legend thank you very

much thanks thanks very much

he

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